Hello and good afternoon. I hope you're all wide awake and are not suffering from a lack of sleep fueled by Germany's glorious World Cup exit game last night. Today, we're talking about AT&S, an Austrian company manufacturing high-end printed circuit boards, IC substrates, among other things. The share has done tremendously well so far this year, more than quadrupled, and I'm very happy to have with me today Mr. Johannes Mattner, who is Manager Inve stor Relations, who will share his insights on why this has happened, and at least as important, what more is in store going forward. As always, with the roundtable, we have roughly an hour, half of which we'll spe nd on the presentation, and the other half if you're interested in Q&A. For the questions, please use our chat box, lower right-hand corner of your screen. We will answer that question once we get to the Q&A. This event will be recorded. For those of you who want to revisit it will be placed on ResearchHub a little later today. I wish us all a pleasant presentation, lots of insights. Johannes, it's all yours now. Thanks also, Holger, for the intro. Thanks also for the opportunity to be here today. It's a great pleasure for me. I'll in the next cou ple of minutes try to give you some, or provide much more color on AT&S of what we're doing, how do we develop, and especially how our KPIs are looking like. Maybe for starting, I try to show you a kind of snapshot of the company. As Holger already mentioned, we produce printed circuit boards, and IC substrates. AT&S has long been just a PCB producer, that's where we're coming from. We have then developed also into the substrate industry. And in the last fiscal year, we already had a 50% share in revenue with the substrate business, and that's also the business we want to grow. AT&S differentiates itself also when it comes to geography. We are the only Western high-end manufacturer of PCBs and IC substrates. We are the only one who has a substrate production in Europe. All of this usually is taking place in Asia. We also decided to extend all our capacities here in Europe because also of geopolitical development. AT&S is, when it comes to size, we are approximately generating EUR 1.8 billion. That was revenue of last fiscal year. It was an increase of 21% in constant currency, generated an EBITDA margin of 23%. I mean, Holger already mentioned the share price development. We're extremely happy what has happened so far. Please think back one year, we stood at the market cap of around EUR 500 million, and now we are really at a completely different level. We reached a market cap of EUR 8 billion. There was a setback during the last days, I think share price development is already satisfying. When it comes to forecasts, I think we'll touch on this a little bit later, also for this year, we are targeting extremely high growth rates also with very positive EBITDA margin levels. What are we doing? I said before, we are a PCB producer, we produce classic PCBs, high-end PCBs. A PCB is part also of your life, which means that be it a smartphone, be it a car, be it, I don't know, a television. In all of these applications, there's a PCB. What is AT&S doing here? We are not focusing on the window lift in a car. That's nothing that we want to do. We also would not be competitive in this field. We're really focusing on high-end applications. I think a good example is still the smartphone. The smartphone has really driven the technological progress in the PCB industry because everything needs to become smaller, we are talking about miniaturization, and here we have a very good market position, and also we are defending this position. Our products can be found in every kind of mobile devices, in cars, in servers, in nearly everywhere, in industrial applications. The approach here is really to targeting just the applications that fit together with our approach, and this is also the reason why we are, when it comes to technology, why we are market leaders in the respective fields where we can be competitive as a European producer. Where we working, that's one of the key success drivers, where we can continue the cooperation with clients. We are really working together with market leaders in every industry, and that's also a very solid foundation for further growth because without these market leaders, technology leaders, you won't get where we are at the moment. Maybe to touch a little bit on our manufacturing footprint. In the printed circuit boards space, we have two fabs in Austria. Those fabs are producing double-sided PCBs to very complex PCBs, also high frequency. It's a lot about industrial applications here, what we're doing in Austria. When we move on to our two production hubs in China, those are for high volume manufacturing and high-end PCBs. I mentioned before smartphones, for instance. This is what we are doing in Chongqing but also in Shanghai where we have a very big plant there. In China, we're also doing some kind of stuff for the automotive industry. In general, this business, what we are doing in China, is characterized by seasonality. Which means, due to the fact that our focus is really on mobile devices there, it's usually the case that in the first half of a calendar year, we have the so-called low season, ahead of Christmas or the six months ahead of Christmas, it's usually the high season. Therefore, we also have in China, for instance, automotive business then which we use to compensate also the falling volumes then in the mobile devices business. We also have one-third of production hub in Asia. It's in Nanjangud in India. Here we focus on automotive industrial applications, also on some kind of infrastructure stuff. Coming to the production network of the substrate business, I think here that's also the main driver for our growth. First of all, I mentioned before we have this fab in Austria. Here it's from a size perspective, it cannot be compared to what we are doing in Asia. Here we are really talking about lower volumes. Here it's a very good hub because here we have the R&D center. We can do a lot of prototyping. Our R&D is having here a setup that's unique in the world. They do not need to go to the manufacturing guys and beg them for some time on the machinery. They have their own machinery in-house. They can work, in theory, 24 hours on this machinery, and it's really unique in the world that our R&D h as such an environment in place. Moving on to China, where we have the hub in Chongqing. That's our first hub for IC substrates. We opened the fab 10 years ago. We were pretty new to this business. We also extended this hub. In the beginning, we had just the two smaller fabs. We then built the third very big plant there. Chongqing is, for the time being, when it comes to experience, it's still one of the core operation centers for AT&S. The colleagues there can really do everything. They are very experienced, and we can then leverage this knowhow also to our other hubs that are producing IC substrates. Then move on to, I think, at the moment to the most important plant when it comes to our growth story. It's in Malaysia, in Kulim. Here we initiated this project in 2021. We started mass production there in 2025. We are rea lly ramping capacity step by step. For those that have missed our notification a couple of weeks ago, we are also extending here the capacity. We fully fill up the first plant. We move in machinery also in the second plant, which has been an empty shell for some time. This is the project which is currently in focus and where we create most of our capacity. What's driving the capacity needs in the substrate business? Why we are increasing the capacity there? What we are seeing is that the complexity of our target application. In the substrate space, we just have semiconductor players as the clients usually. What we're seeing is that the complexity of processors speed, central processing unit or be it a graphic processing unit, the complexity of those products is increasing and increasing, and the performance of these products is increasing. This has a huge impact on the substrate and the architecture of the subst rate. Left-hand side, you see a classical IC substrate with one chip, with an older approach on it. When you compare the size of this with the substrate on the right-hand side, it's a completely different level that we are talking about. Yeah. Those kind of more powerful applications with more processing power, they need bigger substrates with more layers. Which means we have an enormous increase in demand for substrate capacity, for square meters of IC substrates. This on the right-hand side, this is an example what's going on at the moment. What we are doing at the moment is when it comes to new capacities, we just install capacity that is focusing on those kind of bigger substrates. These bi gger substrates als o stand for higher complexity. Think that's also something that differentiates AT&S from a big part of the market. AT&S is one of the few companies that can handle such big substrates. There are competitors, maybe two competitors out of Japan, maybe one out of Korea or Taiwan. That's it. The AT&S is part of this group. We have really reached a position in the market, where we can say, "Okay, we can produce everything," from lowest end technology to the highest end technology. We have really reached a position where the difference to the next ones has become bigger and where we can now participate in this enormous growth that we are seeing. Our clients, and I think that's the most important thing, and the same is also true for the substrate industry. We are working together with companies that are trendsetters, that really have the best performing products in their portfolio. Be it the central processor unit, be it the GPU. We also do business with the so-called hyperscalers, the companies that are running the data centers in the U.S., you know them. It's AWS, it's Google, it's Microsoft, it's Oracle. Part of it is also in our portfolio. I think that's a very good setup we have in place when it comes to further growth in the substrate space. I think one aspect that is also driving the current high demand that's coming from, as I said before, from higher processing power, from AI hardware. What we have learned out of the last quarters and maybe one or two years is that the demand for AI infrastructure has been much higher than the estimates that we have had in place. All of the estimates were simply too low. AT&S is, as I said before, one of the few companies that can really serve this trend. Although we were a classical CPU provider, substrate provider, we are now seeing also that CPUs are becoming more and more in favor. We have the solutions for all these higher performing products. We are also working on the next generations with our clients. I think that's also something that's worth mentioning. We do not stop. We really work together with the market leaders. We get insight when it comes to roadmaps of, be it a new server generation, be it a new GPU generation. We are really involved in the roadmaps, this is, I think I mentioned before, a very important fundament to AT&S, to be part of this growing market, be one of the fastest growing companies also in this market. I just want to say that we are part of this trend. Yeah. Maybe to get some, also to provide some color on what we are doing. Why we can grow that much. Why we are so optimistic when it comes to growth rates. In the last couple of years, it's no secret we invested a lot of money. We also went through hard times because part of our investments and capacity that we installed a couple of years ago has not been used for some time. Now with the very favorable environment, we are really in a position that we can very quickly increase our capacity, and that's especially true for the second plant in Kulim. We are not reliant on developing a greenfield investment. We have already our production hub in Malaysia. We have a building. We need to move in machinery, and we need to execute the project. I think that's one of the key risks. We are very optimistic, of course, that we do this in the required way and set up the required volumes. Now we can also participate from the investment. I think the growth rates that you can see here are very strong. We really expect here a clear increase. Here, part of the investment in Kulim is also that we receive client funding. Client funding means can be prepayments, but it can also be other stuff that is going through the P&L, not just seen in the cash flow, like in former times, but also through the P&L. Therefore, we have this very high growth rates in place for this year. Of course, we expect the growth to continue over the next years. Maybe to comment a little bit on the last fiscal year, what went on. After some really difficult years, we managed to show a very satisfying growth rate, more than 20% plus in constant currency. We really did, I think, very well when it comes also to improve the operating results, which mean we finally achieved a positive EBIT. Also, net profit turned positive in the second half of the year. I think something that the market was or has been waiting for is that we also generated the positive operating free cash flow. That was one of the key issues of AT&S. Too much investment, difficult market situation, lack of free cash flow. I think we really turned this around and expect also to generate a positive free cash flow also this year. Also, EBIT improved quite a lot. We increased EBIT by nearly 50%. EBITDA, sorry, by nearly 50%. That was an enormous increase. I think especially the new management has done a very good job when it comes to really to improve the KPIs. We are really not unsatisfying what happened last fiscal year. When it comes to performance, you see that on the group level, we really managed to increase revenue quarter by quarter. That's also the result that we successfully executed our project in Kulim. The first plant really did great. We increased capacity step by step. That can, of course, be seen here in this development. What's also driving the margin level is not just better loading situation, better cost coverage, but we also experienced, I would say, better pricing environment. Which means, okay, of course, we have material cost inflation, which can be passed on to clients with some delay, but we also can profit from the positive market environment where we can push through also additional price increases. When it comes to business units, you see here Electronics Solutions. That's our PCB business. Here you see what's going on when it comes to seasonality. You see here this peak level in Q2 with a setback then, especially in Q1. Here it's really driven by seasonality. Here in general, we grew the revenue when it comes to constant currency. I think that's very important. We grew our volumes. We still have had some negative price effects, but in the still challenging environment, we were able also to keep up our margin level. We stayed at 18%. I think that's also not a bad development. Microelectronics is the substrate business, and here you see it much better than on the slide for the group level. Here, we really drove up the revenue. Here that's where we can see how strong AT&S is growing. In the fiscal year, we grew by more than 50% in this business. It's all driven by the successful execution of our projects. It's also a good job. A good job was also done in existing production hubs. This is a very good team that we have in place, that they're really executing. They know what they're doing, and now we're seeing the success that's coming out of these factories. Maybe also when it comes to forecasting, we see how quick that also the research houses, Gartner, for instance. How quick the forecast can change from these famous research houses like Gartner or IDC. You see what kind of market they foresee, and what opportunities are here. When you say, okay, the semiconductor revenue that was seen in Q2 2024 was much lower for 2026 than the latest forecast of Q2 2026. Here, I think that's a good example how dynamic the market is, how strong the market is growing. I think that's what I meant before. AI has really outperformed any kind of forecast. Our clients in the substrate space are just out of the semiconductor space, and you can see here what kind of opportunities are in these markets. When it comes to fiscal year guidance, as I said before, we grow. When you take the midpoint of the guidance, we expect to grow on a constant currency basis by approximately 50%. Which is, I would say, a very strong increase. We also are improving our margin profile. The last year we had an EBITDA margin of 23%. Now we expect it to be nearly 10% or more than 10 percentage points higher, which is a very strong level. As I said before, we invest in additional capacity. We do this together with clients. We receive a lot of client funding, therefore we also need to invest this year approximately EUR 1 billion to EUR 1.2 billion, depending on how quick we receive machinery, and how fast are we when it comes to installing. Originally, we planned for this year CapEx of EUR 400 million, this revenue delta of EUR 600 million to EUR 800 million is really driven by new capacities that we're installing. The good thing is that all of this investment, and although we install so much capacity, we don't see our leverage to increase. We ended last fiscal year with net debt/EBITDA of 3.2%. For this year, we expect the leverage that is clearly below 3. There are no negative side effects although we invest that much mon ey into our new capacities. Maybe to summarize. Why we are in a very good position, and I think the first thing is that we have the product that every kind of semiconductor manufacturer needs. Without the substrate, nothing works. We are really very well-positioned to participate from all of these AI infrastructure investments. AT&S is really an enabler for those kind of applications. As I said before, we are in a very good environment. We have so much demand, and compared to this, we have supply constraints in the market. We are really increasing capacities at the right time together with clients, and we're really profiting from the trends like digitalization and/or other things. Good thing is that we really have very good network when it comes to our clients, but also to a kind of vertical integration that we are also doing. We are not the classic substrate or PCB producer anymore. Nowadays, we also embed things into the product. That's something where we can do the next step. We do a lot of business here already, be it for power modules for one of our clients. We are really doing here a good job. We are not resting, so we need to go on, and I think that's something that's also a reason for the success story of AT&S. I think I said it before, we have a unique geographical position. We are the only Western high-end suppliers that's very well-received by clients. We could do much more here in Austria than we have capacity in place. That's really an asset here in Europe. I think the last thin g is that we are really on a profitable growth path. As I said before, we have really laid the foundation for this with the investments. We can quickly ramp capacity because we have the building Kulim 2, so we do not need to build it up. We do not need to build up infrastructure for this fab. We have everything in place. We just need to move in a clean room environment and machinery. That's one advantage that we have in place. It's very important to us that we do not want to wait too long on cash flow generation. Every project that we initiating needs to quickly generate cash flows. This is something that we also do together with clients. The clients need to support us. They do support us. That's why we are in a position where we can say that also this year there will be a positive cash flow generation, although we invest that much money. One of the key focus points of the new management is, of course, deleveraging. We are well aware that our equity ratio is still not there where we want it to be. There's a strong focus on profitable growth, on positive net income to bring up the ratio, and that's really one of the key focus points of AT&S at the moment. For the time being, thank you for your attention. Holger, can you please take over? I will gladly. We do have a few questions actually already. Once again, to everybody participating, if you want to ask questions, feel free to use the chat box, lower right-hand corner. We have questions about substrates, about your Kulim ramp-up, and of course about guidance and the like. I would like to start out with the substrate business, then talk about the ramp-up, and then in the end, come to the guidance, because maybe a lot of the points that relate to guidance will already have been discussed while we touch on the other subjects. First quest ion that came up was regarding the IC substrate business, and it read, "Why is there less yield by server IC substrate? Yeah. When it comes to substrates for client computing, you have a substrate in your laptop that's much smaller when it comes to size. Therefore you have less layers. They mean the whole package is less complex. When it comes to server substrates, you have a bigger form factor, you have much more layer, and in the end, it's much more difficult to put all these layer together, that everything fits together. That's a very complex product that can take up to three months in production to bring it really out of the fab, and that's the reason why in general, the yield, of course, is lower than compared to a client computing substrate. Great. To a certain extent, you already answered the next question, which is regarding the hardest part of making larger, more complex AI substrates profitable at volume. Yes. Maybe to provide you here some info. Yes, it's the complexity. It's the size, of course, it's the layer count, but it's also that you guarantee that much more of this computing power of these electronic signals are routed in the right way through the substrates, that your system is working. An additional step is also what we are seeing here is that there are also components embedded in the substrates nowadays. This is an additional complex step in production. Because you need to maybe to carve out some material, move in the component that you need, fill up t he hole. It's not that easy to do it in an industrialized way. Thank you. How much of your future substrate value will come from power delivery rather than interconnect density? I think the major part comes from the latter one. What we are doing is that with our products, we are really focusing on processors, being a server CPU, being a GPU, or be it these products that the hyperscalers are using, these TPUs, for instance. That's something where most of our clients are active in, which they have in their portfolio. Therefore, I think this will be the case also in the future. Thank you. Looking at glass core substrates, what must these prove before customers treat them as production-ready, not just promising research and development? I think when it comes to glass has, of course, I would say, there's a reason why glass will come to the market. We do not know exactly when, but especially when we look at what's going on in the substrate market, when it comes to form factors of the product. We are really heading just one direction. Substrates are becoming bigger. More layers. The bigger the substrates are becoming, the more you can have a problem when it comes to mechanical stability of the product. Especially when a lot of resisting power is in place, you also then have a lot of heat in place, and that's then working. That has an influence on the laminate you use for these products. The big advantage of the glass is that it provides much more mechanical stability. I think the more the substrates are growing, think on really high-performing computers, which really need big substrates. There's absolutely a reason for using it. We still have these conventional core layers out of laminate in place. I think that's a well-established approach. As I said before, there are substrates that can be of the size of your laptops. When it comes to this, you need a different core layer, and this can be these glass core substrates. I think there are a lot of developments going on. I think the question was also when will we see the industrialization? I can only tell you that these substrates or glass core substrates will enter the market. We do not know exactly when we see this steep increase in volumes. A lot of R&D is going on in the industry, but the technology will come. Could you imagine TGV glass becoming the limiting factor for AI substrate growth in fiscal year 2026, 2027? The TGV glass issue has been in the market for quite some time now. What I can say is in the last fiscal year, we would have been able to produce more because of this. At the same time, and this has started years b efore, we also tried to diversify our supplier landscape. The dominant suppliers for glass are from Japan. We have had the problem that our new suppliers, they are much smaller, of course. They were not able to provide the requested volumes with the requested quality, of course. What we are now seeing is that these suppliers are catching up. They step by step increase their capacities, and we are very much optimistic that AT&S will see a much more relaxed situation in the quarters to come. Great. Thank you. By which factor could substrates grow in size when glass core substrates are used, and how long is a typical timeframe between first samples, tape-out, and high-volume manufacturing? That's a very good question. I cannot really give you here or provide you with the factor, because there's a lot of things are going on. As I said before, you can have a newest product that has a size of 10 by 10 centimeters or even more, but there are also substrates in the pipeline which could have the size of your laptop surface. There's a lot of things are going on, and it really depends then on the client, of course, when does the client want to launch the product, and when the client wants you to change the architecture. These are the decisive factors. As I said before, we are heading towards bigger and bigger substrates because the applications are becoming more powerful, more computing power is needed, and therefore, I think glass core substrates will be part of our business in the future. Thank you. Those were all the questions related to substrates. We're going to continue with the ramp-up of the Kulim plant. Maybe you can give us some insights, and I have some questions related to that as well. First of all, and maybe we can put those together, what's the biggest bottleneck in the ramp-up today? Is it yield qualification, equipment, or material supply? And then kind of in the same context, how would you expect dynamics kicking in from the new capacity expansion in the course of this next fiscal year? Is it more a steady quarterly growth or rather stepwise? When it comes to bottlenecks, I would say, we discussed before this TGV glass topic. It has still not gone away. As I said before, we are quite optimistic that we are moving towards a more relaxed situation. In general, what we are seeing is that when it comes to new capacities, that delivery times have become a little bit longer. It's not dramatic development, but I think due to the fact that the industry is growing that much, that new capacity is created, this is an automatic side effect of all of this, that the delivery times are becoming longer. At the moment, I would say it's still that material supply or supply of certain materials is still limiting our potential here. We are moving towards a more relaxed situation. You have already answered part of the next question, which is also a good way to move over to the topic that's coming up next, and that's the guidance and more details on that. The question in between is beyond execution and ramp-ups, what's the biggest risk to your story over the next 12-18 months? I think when it really comes to risks, I think what we have arranged is that for the capacity extension in Kulim, together with the client, we've really came to a result which is extremely positive to AT&S. We really are going to benefit from it. It doesn't mean that we do not put too much of our own money here on the table. When we invest, we have the money in advance from our clients. I think, compared to what we did in 2021, where we received 50% approximately of the CapEx investment via prepayments, this time it's completely different. We receive much more money. We really moved away the risk as much as possible towards the client. They really have their much, much more their skin in the game. In the end, I think we also need to execute here the project. That's key. Without this, we will disappoint our clients. We won't be able to generate the revenue levels we are targeting. Execution is key. Great. I'm just seeing one more question that I would like to pick up, but let me maybe just dwell on that for a second, what you just mentioned. Fiscal year 2027, and I guess that's the fiscal year 2026 ending in 2027, is impacted by flow-through of customer payments. How should we think of the ultimate annual revenue and margin potential once K2 is up and running? We have received this question also in the last days, last weeks. We do not guide on this. I think in the first step, of course, this will have a very big impact already on the group level. I think first revenues out of this, when it comes to operations, should be seen in the next fiscal year, which is ending in 2028. A bigger part of the impact should then be seen in the fiscal year 2028/29. Thank you. Looking at, once again, fiscal year 2026, 2027, how much of the growth outlook depends on AMD or hyperscaler ramps versus b roader AI HPC demand? In the same context, how do you deepen relationships with Tier 1 customers without becoming too dependent on a few AI roadmaps? I think what we have in place, we have this very important plant, the first plant in Kulim, which is more or less dedicated to AMD. Of course, AMD is one of the key growth drivers of AT&S. With new capacities in place, that's really something that's driving our business. We also want to improve the business with hyperscalers. We also want to improve the business with existing clients, with the original client in the substrate space. It's not just coming from AMD. I think one important thing is when it comes to client concentration, when you think back 10 years ago, we had just one client. We really grew up with this client. The client gave us everything when it comes to know-how. We were heavily criticized that we have just one client, and the peers were much more diversified. In the beginning, we were not able to diversify. I think with bringing AMD on board was a very important step to AT&S. It was really decisive. We really grew the business with AMD. AMD stick to their forecasts, to their promises. We really improved the share of these clients when it comes to revenue. The client also just wants from us high-end substrates. There's no client business, no low-end, mid-end business. This is just for high-end applications. When it comes to, ag ain, to client concentration, of course, when you want to fill up a fab, like Kulim 1 or Kulim 2, you need to have big clients. There is just Intel, AMD, or NVIDIA that can alone fill up one plant. There's a huge gap after those three players. If you want to do high volume business, if you want to fill up your big fabs, then you need one or two of these mentioned companies. Great. Thank you. I guess one question that's in a lot of people's minds is the capacity issue in general, and whether there might be an eventual overshooting. The question reads: We see all your peers increasing IC substrate capacities aggressively. When would you expect to meet overall market demand when all this new IC substrate capacity total market comes online? Do you think there is a risk that it might be too much? To be honest, I don't know how demand will look like in three years. That's their forecast, but as history has teached us, their forecasts, the longer they reach out into the future, the less, or the probability that become reality is becoming very low. What we have in place at the moment is that clients absolutely want the capacity from us. They are really eagerly searching for capacities. I think the big difference is, compared to the past, they pay for the capacity. They completely finance you the project. Compared to the past, we have also different setup when it comes to risk. We have different packaging approaches. We have new packaging approaches, which require enormous amount of CapEx. Here, the risk also for suppliers has become bigger, and that's why they are so open also for financing. We are well aware that there is a lot of investment, we are also well aware that demand will also grow over the next couple of years. I think it's clear that at some point in time that the market will become balanced again. The key thing is here, do you want to have a portfolio that really reflects the broad ma rket, or do you want to have a portfolio where you just play in the high-end field where the client landscape is much tighter? I think we are in such a position. I think the distance to peers, to a couple of peers has become even bigger. I think we're well-positioned for the time, the player ahead of us. Thank you, Johannes. The question that was asked very much in the beginning of the meeting, and I wanted to ask it last or second to last because we've answered most of it already. I think you might maybe want to add a little here and there, but I think in general, we've answered this quite well, and it is regarding the net loss for the last full year. If you could explain that, and if you could show the guidance for the current year. I think the guidance for the current year you've shown already, and we've discussed at length already in the last 30 minutes. If you want to add something on the loss respectively on the guidance, f eel free. I think a lot of it we've already touched on. Yeah. Maybe let's look one year back. There was still an environment where utilization was not at the level where we want it to be. We also experienced pricing pressure in the substrate space. The environment one year ago was not really fine. I think the net income is also based on the development that, or the environment that we still experienced in the first half of our fiscal year. What we managed to do is we absolutel y increased the utilization of our fabs during the course of the fiscal year, I think that's also the reason why we were able then to generate a positive net income in the second half of the year. It was not enough to compensate it for the loss in the first half of the year. Great. We are approaching the end of this roundtable. Johannes, I very much appreciate you taking the time and sharing your insights with us. Ladies and gentlemen, I very much appreciate the multitude of questions that you ask. I think we were able to look at this company from various different angles. We, as I said earlier, will post this recording on ResearchHub in the course of this afternoon in case you wan t to revisit it. Last but not least, we will send out a short questionnaire, and we'd be very happy if you could give us some feedback so we can pass it on to AT&S. With all this in mind, everybody have a great afternoon, and we'll see you again soon on ResearchHub.