Good afternoon and welcome to the Future Generation Full Year Results webinar. My name's Caroline Gurney, I'm the CEO of Future Generation, and I really wanted to thank all of you for joining us. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of this land, and acknowledge the elders past and present of the lands on which you are sitting today. So today is going to be a little different from normal. We've had a very high level of interest from a number of our shareholders, so we've decided to break the webinar into two sections. So for the first 45 minutes, we're going to be talking about Future Generation Global, and then we're going to move on to Future Generation Australia at 12:45 P.M. As always, we're looking forward to taking all of your questions, and we've actually got a lot of questions in, so if we don't finish them before 12:45 P.M., we'll continue to answer them afterwards until the very end. So we have Geoff Wilson, our Future Generation founder, and he's dialing in from New York, so you can ask him about New York later. And we also have two of our pro bono fund managers. So for the first section, we have David Allen from Plato, and then for the second section, our FGG fund manager, we have Blake Henricks from Firetrail. So all of you I mean, they're on at the moment, so they're going to be sharing their market insights, updating your reporting season, and giving their stock picks. I'm really delighted that we have Zoe Black from Happy Paws Happy Hearts, one of our incredible not-for-profits we support. Last time, a lot of you might have seen her, she was in Brisbane, and she actually brought some of her puppies. Admittedly, people were more interested in the puppies than they were on listening to what we were doing, so I'm glad she's on the webinar today. We've been talking internally and externally to many of you and the team within Future Generation Wilson Asset Management what it really means to be a Future Generation shareholder. A few weeks ago, we did an amazing event with Rotary in Sydney and its very many members, and we're also going to be doing one in Melbourne as well. The key takeaway was that being a Future Generation shareholder makes you both an investor and a philanthropist because you're investing with leading fund managers and getting financial returns they deliver. At the same time, you're making such a real impact in the lives of young Australians. The reason you get to do both of these things is because of the generosity of our fund managers. Today, we have people like David and Blake who manage your money pro bono. They don't charge any of their usual management performance fees, and this means we can donate our net average assets to charities on your behalf without impacting your financial returns. So far, we have donated an incredible AUD 75.8 million to Australian not-for-profits. As we always say, we are first and foremost an investment vehicle. So let's turn now to the performance of the companies, starting with Future Generation Global. And Geoff and I, I'm very happy to take photographs on this afterwards. So hopefully, you've all seen our full year results and read our annual report. So I'm actually not going to cover everything here, but I really want to touch on a few highlights. Overall, we delivered a solid investment portfolio performance and a strong, fully franked dividend yield, as you can see from this slide. Here are some of the Future Generation Global highlights: +16.7% investment portfolio performance. We have AUD 0.072 per share fully franked full year dividend. I'm not going to go through all the boxes because I think it's incredibly self-explanatory. But what I do want to say is when the board and obviously, Geoff Wilson is on the board, when they met in February, they agreed to increase the fully franked final dividend to AUD 0.036 per share. So our full year dividend is AUD 0.072 per share. And this represents a fully franked dividend yield of 5.6% and a grossed-up dividend yield of 8%, including franking credits. And that is really important to all of you. I think it's interesting to compare that to the average global equity market yield of 2% and the average US equity market yield of 1.5%. So what you can see there is that we are paying significantly greater. So turning to performance, the FGG investment portfolio increases, I said, by 16.7% for the year. Our investment committee has selected for you leading global fund managers who have a very much proven ability to outperform the market and their peers over the long term. This has resulted in Future Generation Global having a small-cap tilt. I know we've talked about it again, but I think it's really important. If you compare us to the MSCI, we do have a very low exposure to the seven mega-cap companies: Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Tesla, Alphabet, NVIDIA as well. These companies have really driven that performance of the MSCI, and they have alone contributed 40%. That's something we'll come to talk to David about because I know some of you have questions. There's the slide on investment portfolio performance. Throughout 2022, the IC has really reintroduced an allocation to quantitative strategies as well. So it's great that we have David here to talk with us, and we're going to go more into exactly what that means. So the IC really believe that we have selected fund managers who have very much a disciplined investment approach. They're focused on a company's fundamentals, their earnings growth, and their valuation. And this will deliver for shareholders over the short, over the medium to long term. And already this year, we have got off to a good start. In January, we delivered returns of 4.5%. I think the other key deliverable for us, apart from dividends and capital, is that we have less risk than the market. Our volatility was 9.8% versus the MSCI of 10.8%, less than global markets. The other thing that I also would like to briefly touch on and that gives you a lot of comfort is the profits reserve. That's very unique to the LIC structure. Future Generation Global has 6.8 years of dividend coverage for shareholders, which equates to AUD 0.489 per share. That's available in the profits reserve, which is continually working for you. It's not in a separate account. This really smooths out income returns for the shareholders over the long term. I'm looking at the questions now, and they're coming in. One I want to address is the discount to NTA and what we're actually doing about it. I mean, we do have a few questions there. We can definitely go into more detail with that with Geoff. What I want to reassure you is that it's something we are working extremely hard on. We believe that there will be an expected improvement in the investment portfolio performance. And coupled with target communication, our marketing and our engagement strategy, this will meaningfully reduce the share price discount to NTA. I, we, we share your frustration about the discount to NTA, but we're also pleased to have delivered a solid, risk-adjusted investment portfolio performance and a strong, fully franked dividend yield. Briefly, I'm going to go now to our social investment because this is something you, we, we're very passionate about, and it's one of our key differentiators. So this year, Future Generation Global has donated AUD 5.4 million sorry, AUD 5.4 million to our social impact partners. And they've been focused on promoting well-being and preventing mental ill health in young Australians. So our total social investment since inception is now AUD 38 million. This is made possible not just because of the fund managers, but also because of our board, our investment committee, our lawyers, our accountants, our auditors, et cetera. They all waive their usual fees. The fees they have given amount to about AUD 9 million for last year, 2023. That's around 1.6% of the net assets of the company. This money doesn't just go to our impact partners, but it also works for you, our shareholders. Without further ado, I want to introduce you to one of our pro bono fund managers. We have David Allen from Plato. David, are you there? Hi. Hi, Caroline. Thank you very much for having me on today. So David, we're having quite a few questions come in for you. But I mean, I think one of the things is investors, shareholders, everybody's really nervous. Markets are hitting fresh highs. How do you explain that, and what is your outlook for the rest of the year? Yeah, really good question. Yeah. And I guess thinking about it, what, over the last 18 weeks, the S&P 500 has been up in 16 of those weeks. So pretty extraordinary since the lows of COVID. We're up 144%. So yeah, what I keep hearing from investors is that they're long, they're staying long, but they're getting slightly uncomfortable. And that makes sense. Some people are drawing analogies to the tech bubble, where irrational exuberance crept in and all fundamentals seemed to go out the window. I think what's different, though, this time is that these are real companies with real earnings. Look at NVIDIA, for example, that make the chips that make AI possible. They are now the third largest company in the world, but there's real revenue there. So the net profit for the quarter is over $10 billion. That's up 700% in a year. It's just phenomenal. While in the tech bubble, there was a lot of hot air, there certainly may be some froth at the moment, but these are real companies making a real difference in the world. Can you tell me exactly how do you invest? How do you describe your strategy? Yeah, sure thing. Our approach is global. We're looking at the 10,000 companies across the world in developed markets. And that's an incredibly broad opportunity set and places us at a big advantage to a manager who just can look at Australian stocks. Australia's got some great companies, but it's very focused on mining and financials, et cetera. Doesn't have a huge tech space, doesn't have a huge pharmaceutical space. We take a global approach, and we'll look at any company in the world from Apple right down to 100 million free float. It's a very broad opportunity set. And what we're really looking for is companies that are great quality, that aren't too expensive, that have good sentiment, good tailwinds, and critically, an absence of big red flags that we need to be wary of. We have a question from Daniel about what high-conviction businesses are you excited about? Maybe you give us one? Yeah, yeah, sure thing. OK, well, I think previously, when I spoke into FutureGen, we spoke about Danish company Novo Nordisk, the genius minds behind the anti-obesity drugs that are taking the world by storm. There's another pharma name in our portfolio at the moment that I think is very interesting. And it's called Vertex Pharmaceuticals. And they have transformed the treatment for people and children with cystic fibrosis. Just 25 years ago, the life expectancy was 27 years for someone with the CF diagnosis. Now it's well into the 50s, and a lot of it is due to these medications. There's another drug on their horizon that's in late-stage development. And it's a treatment or it's a pain drug that's entirely non-addictive, works on the peripheral nervous system rather than the central, and is almost as effective as opioids. We know in the U.S. how the opioid epidemic has laid waste to families and entire communities. And so this is a need that's crying out to be met. In the U.S., for every 100 Americans, there's 40 opioid prescriptions written each year. So if Vertex have what it appears they do, this is a game changer in the treatment of pain and can transform lives, which is fantastic. Maybe you could also balance that in terms of what companies are you shorting at the moment? So yes, so just for the viewers, we also take short positions. So we look at companies that we think are in very challenged environments. A short name that we were short at the end of last year was Liontown, and so a lithium producer. What kind of piqued our interest with Liontown was that their CEO sold AUD 1 million worth of stock right around Christmas time when no one's paying too much attention. And what was particularly interesting, they sold stock right after a period of weakness in the share price, which is unusual. Normally, CEOs and CFOs sell after a period of strength. The company had, I think, 15 red flags on Plato's red flag process. So this confirmed our short thesis. Sure enough, a few weeks later, it comes out that their financing syndicate had fallen over, and the stock price fell 25% on the day. Lendlease is another name that we've been short for some time and has continued to generate free cash flow and to execute its turnaround plan. Actually, David, you've just mentioned your red flag system. Perhaps you could briefly explain that just in case some of our shareholders weren't on the other call. Yeah, yeah, sure thing, Caroline. So it's a bit corny, so you forgive me. But Warren Buffett likes to say that there's only two things you need to know in investing. Rule number one, don't lose money. Rule number two, don't forget rule number one. And that's what the red flags are all about, making sure that there's no landmines in our portfolio. So we've actually got 150 different red flags that we look at before we make any investment, either long or short. What are those red flags? An example might be if some of the directors have been involved in a historical bankruptcy. We have some very interesting data on that. We'll look at who the auditor is, what's the quality of that auditor, are there related party transactions that allow them to use creative accounting techniques? Do investors have clawback? Do management have clawback provisions? Is there alignment between investors and executives in terms of remuneration structures? So a lot of companies will have one or two red flags. But if a company has eight or more, we pretty much will run for the hills. I remember Volkswagen had 17 red flags before their Emissions gate cheating scandal. So this is a really powerful tool we have to identify landmines on the long side and potential short ideas as well. I find that really fascinating in terms of how you do that. What I want to talk about is Future Generation Global has a bias towards small to mid-cap companies. What has been happening globally in that small-cap market, especially when everybody's talking about the performance of the so-called Magnificent Seven, but they're also different? Yeah, they are. The Magnificent Seven, it's a catchy phrase, right? But there's some companies in here that are incredible growth stories, like NVIDIA. But you look at Apple, for example, that's arguably ex-growth and hasn't had a new category killer product in some time. In terms of what's happening in smalls, the good news on smalls and mids is they look incredibly cheap, cheapest in 15, 20 years. So that's obviously a good thing. The other side is maybe that many of these companies are cheap for good reason. The companies that are really benefiting from the AI age, if you like, are the ones that have a huge amount of scale and the data needed to really make use of these technologies. And that's much less important or available in small and mid-cap space. Part of value tells a story, but maybe there's a reason for that as well. I can see small and mids having their day in the sun, for sure. So we've all read that more than half of humanity is going to be heading to the ballot box this year. And that's the most ever in sort of human history. So that's what more than 60 elections, obviously the U.S., India, Russia, and the U.K., and Indonesia. How is this going to impact global markets from your point of view? Yeah, great question. I think something like 85% of the world's peoples that live under democracies are going to the polls. So I won't talk about all of them, but the European ones are really interesting. People talk about the Grand Coalition in Europe, where there's three more centrist ruling parties that have garnered the vast majority of the votes since the founding of the EU, really. And if the polls are correct for the first time ever, that Grand Coalition of centrists will hold less than 50% after the elections. And there'll be potentially quite a hard turn to the right. So there's questions there. What does that mean for the green energy transition within Europe is a valid question. In the U.S., there's a lot of water to pass under the bridge before then. Hopefully, both candidates are alive and healthy by the time that comes around. But quick question, Mark's there. If Trump is to win, then that could precipitate a trade war with China. That could be very inflationary. Interest rates could increase again. So what sectors don't you want to be in, for example, if Trump wins, for example? I mean, I know I've heard you talk a lot about stress testing. What's coming out of that? Yeah, sure. No, good question. So what we actually do, we measure how sensitive each of the companies in our portfolio are to changes in the betting market odds that Trump or Biden are going to win. It's real money behind it, and it's as good a prediction as any. And the companies that are really sensitive to that are cyclical mining companies. Energy companies will do very well if Trump gets elected. For Biden, it's more the green energy transition companies are likely to get an additional boost. So that's the kind of the swing factor there, if you like. I find it really fascinating. So thank you so much for your time, David. We really appreciate everything you do and all of your work so we can actually provide funding for Australia, not-for-profit. So I'm not sure we do have some questions coming in, but I'm worried about time. So I think we're going to go to Zoe now. Zoe, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Fabulous, fabulous. So as I said earlier, Future Generation Global and Future Generation Australia have donated AUD 75.8 million since inception. And we are on track to comfortably eclipse our target of giving AUD 100 million by 2030. And you are one of our recipients for Future Generation Global. And what you've done in the 10 years since you started is really impressive. But I think if anybody wasn't at our Brisbane roadshow, tell us a little bit about your program. Yeah, very happy to. I think probably the easiest way to describe Happy Paws Happy Hearts is to frame it around assistance therapy. Because a lot of people, when they think about assistance dogs, understand that those dogs are trained and matched to individuals who need them. So you can think about dogs for the blind and the like. What we did is we flipped that completely around. We decided that, well, there's people in need, young people in need. What if we could bring them out of isolating situations and take them to where the animals already are? There's tens of thousands of animals sitting in rescue shelters. So we do work with puppies, like I brought to the Brisbane event. But we also work with cats and farmyard and reptiles and all of the animals that you can imagine come through these rescue centers. The young people go through our programs. They're grouped together, and they learn how to work with the rescue animals. They build up their well-being. They build up their confidence. They make friends. And then they go onto a pathway, either back to school or onto employment. And really, we kind of say it's one of the coolest universities around because they're getting those life experiences that they otherwise wouldn't. But they get to do it with animals in every one of their sessions. So I love the fact that Happy Paws Happy Hearts is dual purpose because, obviously, that's what Future Generation is. So when you're helping both sort of people and animals, do you also hope that they'll get a job with animals? Or is it just more to get their confidence up and help them for whatever they need? Yes, we do hope they'll get jobs. But we're really about their individual journey. The natural assumption would be that they're coming in to work with the animals to end up working in that space. Actually, our young people are so diverse. They have such different desires for their futures. Some of them want to be aerospace engineers. They didn't get through school because of their social anxieties. The animals really bring them into a space where they can rebuild their confidence and reignite their love of learning to actually achieve those dreams. We love that it's dual purpose as well because the other part of it is that the animals do truly benefit from the time with these young people. The animals are going on a very similar journey to these young people. Rescue animals are trying to refine their confidence in people. They're trying to find their next stage in life. They're recovering from trauma, which so many of our young people are. So they go on this parallel journey together. Some of the youths definitely do end up in the animal world. They complete vet certificates to become vet nurses. Or they go and work in the farmyard space. But it's really individualized. What do they want to do? And we're there to provide that confidence and that platform to help them go onto that next pathway. So I mean, obviously, you talked a little bit about the trauma. I mean, we're all reading about youth mental health figures. And it's really distressing. What are you actually seeing on the ground? Because you're dealing with the issues continually. Yeah, we really are. And it's probably one of the worst phases that I've seen in living memory because we're seeing really terrible rates of youth suicide. And we are working with young people who have not left their homes apart from essential kind of medical trips for sometimes three years. We're working with young people who just simply cannot face school. So a lot of school refusal is common in the participants that we see. So we're really starting from a very difficult place to reengage. And then actually, sometimes that journey can take a long time. We just transitioned a young man. And it's taken us six years of work with him. And then he's gone on to get his vet certificate and his vet placement. So it's really amazing that he's getting there. But it's a six-year journey. And that's just the level that we're working with. There's also just a crisis across the hospital system, right? We actually can't keep up with this. We can't keep going, in my view, on this path of just reacting to the crisis. We need to come into the prevention space. Maybe if I could briefly ask you why prevention is so important because, obviously, we now fund towards that area. What's your view on that? Yeah, well, prevention for me, and in so many settings, you can understand that prevention just makes sense. What we see in our hospitals and the overloading of the hospitals and even just access to psychologists right now, it's really, really difficult. So if we don't do something on the prevention side, it just leaves so many people without that important care. And as I flagged before, it can lead to really disastrous consequences. For me, though, it's obviously really personal. We want to bring these young people into their own lives. We want to return them to life. I want to see these young people not shut out from that potential. So if we can get in there in the prevention space and actually draw them out, bring them in, give them that confidence, return them to school, I tell the story of this young woman, Shayna. When she first came in, she was not saying a word. She was so traumatized from that experience at school. Her social anxiety is so high that her mother never thought she would return to school and never thought that she would sort of step outside of her own home. Without the prevention space, then we're leaving the likes of Shayna to languish for a very long time. Then that just adds cost, adds cost, adds cost, or results in consequences that we all don't like to think about. That is the reality. I mean, I know that you're definitely, in terms of expansion mode. But we have a question from Liz. And it's, why don't you operate in Victoria? Thank you, Liz. It is our ambitions. There is a need for link-up with Zoe? Yes, it is our ambitions. We are in scale-up mode, as you flagged. We are from Darwin, Queensland, bits of New South Wales, and down into Hobart. With the help of Future Generation, we've been able to add more locations. But there's something like 40-odd locations across the country. Victoria has definitely got a number of those that we will scale up into, for sure. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Liz. So we need to connect with both of you. But Zoe, I mean, I think the work you do is incredibly important. So I just want to thank you very much. And I'm just going to now turn to shareholder questions because we're getting quite a few in. So Geoff, are you online? Yeah, not all good, Karen. I am just going to start reading out quite a few of these questions. So we've got a question from Janine. Is the Profits Reserve of six years excessive? And the next question on that from Graham is he's confused about how to view the Profits Reserve. Obviously, I'm saying that it's working for them. But does it mean it's invested? And is it part of the NTA? Would you like to answer that? Or I cannot? Thank you. No, thanks. So the answer is the profit reserve is part of the NTA. So effectively, say we've got FGG, something like AUD 550 million of assets. And they are invested. And they're invested with the fund managers, which the investment committee think are the smartest operators. To me, we talk about large and small. I'd sort of put that to one side. In theory, these guys, and you just heard from one of them, they're looking for quality companies, undervalued quality companies. And that's why we've set this funds management group together. So the profit reserve is an accounting figure. Now, when you make profit, you're allowed to, from an accounting perspective, put it into a profit reserve, which allows you to pay dividends later on. Now, for those dividends, to be frank, there's got to be franking credits as well. So in theory, 100, I suppose when Caroline's saying the money's working for you, effectively, the AUD 550 million is, or a dollar, say AUD 1.50 odd a share in FGG, is invested and working for you. The fact that the profit reserve may be AUD 0.40 of that, it's not held in cash to give back to shareholders over time. It's all fully invested. That's purely accounting. In terms of why don't you pay bigger dividends, you look at FGG. And I think it's yielding, what is it, close to 5% on assets, actually on NTA, sorry, on NTA about 5%. But on share price, because the shares are trading at a discount NTA, say it's probably close to that 6% mark or just a little under. But that's after tax. So if you look at it, we're giving you a, say, 6% return, which at a pre-tax level, to make that fully franked, we've got to pay tax, now 30% tax. So therefore, the grossed-up return that we have to make to pay that out to you is closer to 9%, 8 and a bit%. So therefore, that is a very large pre-tax amount of money you've got to make. And the risk with listed investment companies, and I've seen it before. And I can give you some examples more recently. When you start pushing the dividend too hard, then all of a sudden, the investor, for their returns, they just assume their dividends, they get their dividend for free. And they want their capital to go up. Say if these fund managers are going to deliver you 10%-12% per annum, which, say, the market does, then if you're getting most of it as a fully franked dividend, then you virtually get no capital growth. The risk is, and this happened to one of the Wilson Asset Management listed investment companies, WAM Capital. The portfolio outperformed the market over the last 4 years, gave a return of close to 7% when the market was 6% and a bit. But we're paying out 14% pre-tax. So where does the 14% come from? You actually lose 7% per annum. So the Future Generation board, obviously, is aware of what's happening in the market. And they're happy to gently grow that dividend. In terms of franking, there isn't excess franking because you only, so in theory, it's not as if we're sitting on AUD 0.40 of franking. Now, that would be a different scenario. I think FGG, it's a year and a bit of franking that we're sitting on. So that just means security for you getting a fully franked dividend over the next 12 months. The profit reserve there is just to give you confidence. That's why I know there's questions about premiums and discounts. Maybe I'll touch on a little bit of that now while I've got the floor. Both FGX and FGG will trade at premiums again. They've traded at premiums before. I think FGG was trading, it got to a 10% premium at one stage. FGX, the last premium, I think back in 2019, was about a 6% premium. Why are they trading at discounts now? To me, from my perspective, forget what's happening in the rest of the market. In theory, it's purely supply and demand. If all our investors understand what we're doing and align what we're doing and happy with what we're doing, then you'll find there's very little selling. And only a little bit of buying moves that equilibrium and gets you to equilibrium, which is NTA. What we had with both FGX and FGG back in 2019, we raised a reasonable amount of money in both entities. And what we saw soon after that, unfortunately, global markets and the Australian markets all got a bit of a wobble. So people have put their money in. All of a sudden, then decided, oh, maybe I want to take my money out. And then we've just been working through that. And to me, it's like, I mean, we've been talking about it very recently. I think we've got to sort of reengage and repackage what the investment opportunity is. Here, you've got the smartest fund managers globally that we can assemble. And they're working for you. But in terms of the smartest managers that we've assembled, what we've got there is a combination of managers that are long the market. But some, and you just heard earlier, some short the market. So they're actually giving you protection. And they're looking for the high-quality growth companies that are coming through. So there's periods of time where, from a risk-adjusted perspective, you may be getting a really good return. But you think, oh, well, but the market's done better than that. Well, then you're in the wrong investment. If you want high beta, if you want high risk or higher risk, then you go into a fund manager that has less stocks. This is a diversified portfolio that we believe will give you better than market returns with less than market risk over time. You're better off nearly buying one stock if you want high leverage. So you've got to understand what you're investing in. And I think what we've, since those last raisings, which are about a lot of the people that put their money in, didn't understand what they're investing in. And so we've actually had to work through those. And as the share registers have tightened up, and that will happen, then the share price slowly moves to NTA. And then eventually, it'll trade at a premium. So I know I've covered. But hit me with the questions, Caroline, because I'm happy to. I quickly. There's a lot on it. So basically, we've got a question for you have partially asked it. But I think it's important to ask it again. The Profits Reserve is enormous compared to total dividends paid since IPO. Why does the board hold back so much of these investor earnings rather than putting them into investors' hands? Because then it would make the TSR look so much more favorable. Yeah, yeah. In theory, the profit reserve is accounting. It's realized profit on a monthly basis. So you could have; it's not on an annual basis or a half-yearly basis. So you could have a situation in a 12-month period where the first six months the market goes up. And the second six months the market goes down. So we, as a board, are trying to get in the position that we can keep giving you a growing stream of fully franked dividends. But in that example I gave you, you could have a situation like if the market went up by, say, 10%, we're talking about AUD 55 million going into the profit reserve. If, then, over the second half it went down by 10%, then because it goes into Profits Reserve, realized or unrealized, if the second half the market falls back by AUD 55 million, then at the end of the year, there's still AUD 55 million gone into the Profits Reserve. But the assets haven't changed. So you've got to look at it from that perspective. It's not as if what's in the Profits Reserve is all money that's been made. They're unrealized profits. And the reason when they become realized is when we pay our tax. And I mentioned, I think the number, yeah, FGG, in theory, our ability is to frank a year and a bit. We've got enough franking to do that. So it's not as if we've made all this money. And we're sitting on all this, we've paid all this tax. We're sitting on this money that we haven't paid out to you. And that's a classic example. So there's the smart people that have called into the webinar. So they're getting their questions answered. But there'll be other people at home reading this and saying, well, I'm actually angry with the board. They're not doing a great job. And they're not fully understanding the nuances. And it's really how we position that. And the more we can communicate with, and that's why Caroline, I think, mentioned earlier, we're trying to more aggressively, well, not aggressively, more consciously call as many shareholders as we can. And even go down to the share register and communicate clearly to them and get all their questions answered. Because the more you understand the company, the more you're more comfortable in sitting there and letting the company perform for you. So Geoff, I might go to some more questions because we have a fair few. And I have to close this in 5 minutes to go to Future Generation Australia. But we'll answer them again. So Adrian has said, how long will the sort of 15% discounts in FGG be permitted before major action, like a conversion to open ends, happens? I mean, obviously, capital management is what you want to see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, to me, yeah. And I know there's another question about buybacks. I think there's somewhere, to me, buybacks don't work. And we can talk about that. It just reduces the size of the company. I know the economics make sense. But there's no, we've studied them. That doesn't really work. In terms of open ending it, of what value is that? To me, you're all smart. The people that are on the call here, we all know what the assets are worth. We're not going to be selling at this price. Now, I'm not selling at this price. And we know that at some point in time, they'll trade at NTA, if not a premium. And we all know that investing is a patience's game. And we'd all love it to be a premium now. So to me, it just doesn't make any sense, open ending. Because then when FGG is trading at a 10% or 15% premium, then you would have been better leaving it as it was. You could argue they should be at a premium. Because to get access to these managers cheaply, you're actually, everyone's getting a good deal. You're not paying what they normally, these managers, only 1% is going to charity. And all these managers, most of them charge performance fees. So you're not paying them. So you're getting a really good deal. So Caroline, just keep hitting me in the last couple of minutes. OK. So Rebecca would like an update on the FGG portfolio strategy and progress regarding environmentally sustainable investments and reducing our exposure to fossil fuels. Maybe if I actually say that our coal and consumable fuel exposure is 0%. And obviously, David just spoke about his red flag system. And they basically have short investments. And our exposure there is sort of -0.03. In the actual annual report, it goes through everything with FGG. So for distillers and vintners, we have an exposure of 0.85. Casinos is 0.93. We have no tobacco. And I mean, as it's sort of in terms of very small in terms of consumable fuels, which I just said, and brewers. But I mean, obviously, I mean, Geoff, from the investment committee, which obviously you're. Why don't we leave that there? Why don't we leave that there? Because I need you to type. And if you can email the more detail. Yes, I will. OK. The next question, which one? I mean, a lot of them are about how many I can actually email that one because it's quite a long question. These are about discounts. Sorry. They're just coming in quite what else? From Craig, can we provide a graph illustrating both share price and NTA performance against the underlying indices since inception? And can you. Definitely, definitely. Yeah, basically, please send it to him. You've got to remember, these are listed investment companies. So they actually pay tax. Someone asked me recently, they said, "Hey, look, my son's thinking I'm trying to get him to buy shares in a listed investment company saying maybe he should buy a property." My answer to that is he should buy a property. Because if he gets no benefit from the franking credits, he's better off buying a property. Because if both a listed investment company and a property increase 10% in a year, and that's realized 10%, with the listed investment company, then you pay 30% tax. And then you get that back as a fully franked dividend, a 7% fully franked dividend. If the property goes up 10%, and if you haven't sold it, then your assets have gone up 10%. So you only pay the tax when you sell it. So with an investment company, the profit it makes, it pays tax on. So there's no use looking at an index versus that. Because you're actually just, you're putting both arms behind your back on one of your legs and tying yourself up. Because broadly, 30% per annum is going. And that's why you've got to add that back if you're going to do that. But we can provide all those numbers. What else have we got? From Paul, are there any other fund managers replicating our investment and social impact model in Australia or elsewhere? And is our investment outlier? Yeah. Yeah. No, I copied this from a guy in the UK. His focus was the Battle Against Cancer Investment Trust. There's another group here, HM1. But they support medical research. So it's all different structures. But there's probably 6 or there's 3 or 4 unlisted ones as well in Australia. So to me, it's good on the investment community and all these fund managers being prepared to give back and manage the money for nothing. Okay. So in terms of the franking credits balance of FGX, I'll do that on the other hand. That's fine. So the rest are coming through now for FGX. So I might actually close that off because we're at 12:46 now. And we've actually got some more callers coming in. Any questions for FGG? It is your company. Please, the more you understand it, then the better. We're very happy to spend time talking through the nuances. Really, if it's not for you, if you don't want the smartest fund managers that we can assemble managing your money pro bono, then sell your shares. Because then the quicker that everyone sells the shares, then the quicker they'll trade at NTA. We have that alignment. Thank you. Thank you very much, Geoff. All the others, I'll ring. Please give me your phone numbers. But I think I'm getting them. That's all good. Welcome to everybody that's joined in now for Future Generation Australia. I'm actually going to be joined on this webinar with one of our pro bono fund managers, Blake Hendricks from Firetrail, as well as Geoff. He'll be back to answer the rest of the questions. Before we get started, I just want to reiterate what I was saying earlier about being a Future Generation shareholder. We're talking about it a lot internally and externally. We've realized it means you get to be both an investor and a philanthropist. You are investing with the best fund managers. You are reaping the financial returns they deliver. You're making a real impact in the lives of young Australians. And they're all working pro bono. So we're going to be hearing from Blake. And we'll ask him, why does he work with Future Generation Australia? Because the fact that they don't charge any management or performance fees for managing your money is pretty amazing. We are, first and foremost, an investment vehicle. So I think it's important to run through Future Generation Australia's performance for the full year. And I want to remind you, any questions for Geoff and me, we'll answer afterwards. So here, we have the highlights on this slide. I'm not going to cover every aspect of the results because hopefully, you've read our annual report and our full year results. But as you can see from this slide, the investment portfolio outperformed both the ASX All Ordinaries and the ASX Small Ordinaries in 2023. This is pleasing, I think, for all of us because the Future Generation Australia investment portfolio has a very strong bias towards small, mid, and micro-cap companies. As you know, these stocks have faced really quite serious headwinds over the last couple of years. I think it's important that we give you some context about why we operate in this space. We have a brilliant Future Generation Australia investment committee known as the IC. They advise superannuation funds. It's got some very great financial names on there. They choose the fund managers that we actually allocate to. They look for fund managers who've got a proven long-term ability to outperform the market and their peers. The IC really believe that fund managers who can generate the most outperformance, or alpha, as it is known, are the small, mid, and micro-cap managers. As a result, the 50 biggest companies in Australia, which make up 73.1% of the All Ords, make up just 39% of the Future Generation Australia investment portfolio. The top 200 companies in Australia make up 97.2% of the All Ords. That just makes up 66.4% of the Future Generation portfolio. We've written this up also in the annual report in terms of how the IC invests. But I also think, in terms of the mix of investment styles in our portfolio, our exposure to long equities delivered returns of 14.5%. Our exposure to absolute bias got us a return of 13.4%. This drove us to outperform both the All Ords and the Small Ords. We balanced these strategies with market-neutral strategies and cash. That very much gave us that downside protection and the reduced volatility. So I think let's turn now to dividends. Geoff's very happy to talk more about how the IC sees our portfolio later. With dividends, this is really important for many of us. Future Generation Australia declared an increased fully franked final dividend of AUD 0.0335 per share, bringing the fully franked full year dividend to AUD 0.067 per share. And importantly, we have 4.5 years of dividend coverage. This dividend represents a fully franked dividend yield of 5.8% and a grossed-up dividend yield of 8.3%, including franking credits. I'd like to also briefly go through our social investment. In 2023, Future Generation Australia delivered our ninth annual investment of AUD 5.2 million to our social impact partners, where we focus on children and youth at risk. Our total investment since inception is now AUD 37.8 million. We do this because our fund managers, our board members, our investment committee, our accountants, our lawyers, they all waive their usual fees. In 2023, the amount of fees foregone was around AUD 8.6 million, or just 1.6% of the net assets of the company. One of our very generous fund managers is Blake Henricks from Firetrail. So thank you very much for joining us, Blake. I think I can hear you. There we go. How's that? Can you hear me now? Yes, I can. That's great. Excellent. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks so much. I appreciate your time. You have some large caps in your portfolio. You're predominantly a mid-cap player. I've just talked about Future Generation Australia and have a very strong bias towards small, mid, and micro-cap stocks. When do you expect the sector to recoup some of the relative underperformance? And why? Yeah, sure. Well, I'd make a couple of points. So the first one is that, as we look back through time, what we generally see, and this is over the last 20 years, is that mid-caps and small caps tend to outperform large caps. And so if you look over the last 20 years, the Top 50 have delivered about 8.9% per annum, whereas the Mid 50 have delivered something closer to 10%. So over the long term, mid-caps generally outperform large caps. The second thing is that, coming out of economic slowdowns in particular, mid and small caps do very well. So if we look at the average recovery out of a recession, we see large caps doing around 19%. We've seen the mid-caps deliver up to 29% or 30% coming out of those slowdowns. So that's when we see those big returns. And then the other thing, I think, is mid-caps look very attractive. So if you look at on a multiple basis, the PE you're paying for a dollar of earnings is about the same, looking at a couple of years. But the earnings growth is much higher. I just got these stats then. But the ASX 100 is expected to grow 2% per annum over the next three years. That sort of Mid 50 is expected to grow at 5.3% per annum. So there are three really good reasons why being exposed to that mid and small area of the market is attractive. When it turns, I don't know. But if these companies continue to generate that cash flow, that earnings growth, those reratings do happen often when you least expect it. So I mean, obviously, you've just sort of briefly talked about the market. What's your outlook for the rest of the year? What are you thinking in terms of how your portfolio might change? What we can see out there is, if I go and when I think about the market, I think it's best to look in sort of three key sectors. So the first one would be the banks because they are a large part, around 20% of the market. We don't see a lot of opportunity in the banks. In fact, in the portfolio we manage, we don't own any Australian banking shares. And the reason for that is the multiples are very elevated. And the competition, in particular, is very high. Even just this morning, I spoke to a mortgage broker. And they love using Macquarie. Now, Macquarie, as a mortgage player, wasn't really around 5 or 10 years ago. They've really changed the market, made it very competitive. As a result, with declining return on equities and dividends that are pretty full now, we don't see a lot of opportunity there. If I then move to resources, the market's very bearish. China, if you open up the paper, on any particular day, you'll hear how bearish it is. But iron ore is $130 a ton. That is a very high price. BHP and Rio are making a lot of money, reasonable balance sheets. So I think the resource side of the equation looks OK. Then you go to industrials. I think industrials was probably a bit of a bright spot at reporting season. The main reason for that was because of very low expectations. I think what we've always got to remember is companies, people, we don't operate in vacuums. What I mean by that is, if the revenue is a bit lower, you don't just sit there and eat it. You'll typically reduce costs. And so we saw a lot of cost control in reporting season. So what I think that comes together as is the market looks OK to us, moderate growth. But I think where you invest is going to be really important. So you mentioned, obviously, the reporting season. You've mentioned cost control. What about consumer sentiment? Is that a really important thing for shareholders to think about? It is. But consumer sentiment's been very low now. I think it's even lower than COVID at the minute because of the cost of living pressures, which are real for many segments of the economy. The offset to that is, if we look at the over 50s and we look at this CBA credit card data, what it's suggesting is spend is extremely strong. So while the media will focus on all the negatives and the cost of living pressures and higher interest rates, there are probably a quiet proportion of the population who are actually doing pretty well. So we don't look too much to consumer sentiment now. What we're looking at is some of those high-frequency trading data points. And it suggests that consumers are actually OK out there. Maybe if we can go back to inflation and interest rates because they are spooking a lot of our investors. We've got a couple of questions on that because we've got many fund managers predicting the first rates will come through in the middle of the year. John's asked, what do you think will happen with interest rates? It's the hard question. Oh, it's very hard. Well, there's a lot of money that goes through on interest rate instruments all the time. I went and looked at those just before I came up here, actually. So the question's a good one. What the market's expecting is the first cut to be in August, September. What we're seeing on the ground is the consumer probably a little bit more resilient than expected. We're seeing house prices rebounding quite strongly, much stronger than we would have expected. Even the equity market, which is usually a pretty good barometer of how things are, is hitting all-time highs in the U.S. It's rebounded very strongly in Australia. So if you're going to put me on the spot with your have, I'd say may push back beyond August, September because the economy has been much more resilient to these higher interest rates. I think one of the things all of us fall in the trap of is extrapolating the future or, if things change, thinking they'll go back to where they were very quickly. Interest rates were coming from a very, very low point. Current interest rates are actually pretty normal in a historical sense. And so the idea that they need to be cut aggressively, given the economy's holding up, I think that will prove to be a little bit optimistic. But I think it's also fair to say that, with inflation coming back, the idea that interest rates need to go higher is also unlikely. We've had a question from Daniel, who's one of our shareholders. He said, you're a high-conviction fund. What are the companies and sectors you're most excited by? There's a couple of sectors we're exposed to. The first one is healthcare. It's CSL and ResMed in particular. ResMed, to us, looks amazing. There is a long-term threat out there. That is weight loss drugs. 80% of ResMed customers are obese. So a lot of those customers, if they were to lose a lot of weight, they could potentially get off the ResMed device. But there's a few reasons to really like it. The first one is their nearest competitor, Philips, is out of the market at the moment and is likely to be so for the next 2-5 years. ResMed almost has a monopoly in the U.S. in the next few years. The second thing is long-term threats are often overplayed. I'm sure all the people on the call would know when online shopping came around, JB Hi-Fi was going to be the big loser. Yet JB Hi-Fi is hitting all-time highs. Yet online shopping is now in that electronics category, 15%-20% of sales. Companies adapt to whatever circumstances they see. We think ResMed is very attractive. I'll contrast it for you against something like a Commonwealth Bank. Going back to 1999, Commonwealth Bank and ResMed have never traded on the same multiple. As you would expect, ResMed's always traded at a higher multiple. If you look into the year 2025, which is not far away now, I'm sure you'll agree, these two companies are on the same PE. That's never happened since 1999, since trading began. So we think there's a really compelling argument to say, as a high-conviction investment manager, the likes of ResMed and CSL look very attractive. Commonwealth Bank, on the other hand, looks extremely expensive. The other thing I'd say about Commonwealth Bank, great dividend payer, great company, all those things. The earnings per share haven't changed since 2015. It's pretty amazing what's going on and where the stock is hitting all-time highs. So talking to our shareholders and, obviously, you're sort of talking to a lot of consumers, they're very concerned about the cost of living. The government is going to impact, perhaps, their election results. We've got the Greens' cost of living inquiry and supermarket pricing. Do you expect more regulation, perhaps, into energy companies? And how are you thinking about that in terms of your portfolio? This is a tremendous question. Through reporting season, it was a real theme where companies want to avoid what's happened to supermarkets, which is now a parliamentary inquiry, followed by an ACCC review, which will conclude in February next year. Speaking of the supermarkets, I think they're much more concerned about the parliamentary inquiry because that's when the gotchas come and the bad press comes. They believe the ACCC inquiry and review, which finishes next year, is unlikely to turn up too much because we look at their return metrics, the margins, the costs they've incurred. They believe there'll be nothing to see there. However, there are some sectors who are investing heavily to try and avoid any kind of regulation. A few companies I call out. The first one would be Qantas. There is an ACCC inquiry there on paying for no flights. They're investing AUD 230 million into customer experience. The company was down 8% on the result day and has continued to fall since that moment. So companies are trying to get ahead of it. We saw AGL and Origin. I know that was the question about energy regulation. They're also investing aggressively into hardship payments. AGL, I think, caught out AUD 45 million of extra hardship payments. So companies are very aware that this Labor government likes to get involved into industry. But I would be a little bit. I think the government got over their skis a little bit. This is going back 18 months ago when they tried to intervene in the energy market, actually tried to cap gas prices. Now, gas is a commodity. It moves up and down. And at the time, it was very high. So the government came in and said, "We're going to cap prices." What ended up happening was everyone said, "Well, we're not investing. And now we're going to probably face a shortage over the next couple of years on the East Coast in terms of gas." And so that AUD 12 cap in gas has now been all but fully abandoned. So I think the government's also learned that you can't just step in. But certainly, grandstanding, putting pressure on companies is more likely the way. So more gentle in some cases, more aggressive in others, pressure down on profits, but not a full-blown disaster for companies. Is there anything else that shareholders should be thinking about when they look at the Australian market and influences from offshore? Yeah. I mean, one thing we've seen, I mean, you heard my comments on Commonwealth Bank and just how expensive it's become. Markets are now reacting a lot to very short-term news, which is creating great opportunities for investment managers. The other thing is people are investing more heavily in indexes. And that's great news for us because it means that certain companies are getting bid up way above what they should be just because they're large and they get larger. And in the case of the U.S., I guess AI is here. It is going to be real. The impacts on the negative side, I don't think have been fully explored yet. But meeting with companies through reporting season, what they're telling me is we can control our labor costs. Labor costs this year will probably be up 4% or 5%. But the one thing we're really struggling with is technology costs. The Microsofts of the world are putting through 12%, 15%, 18% price increases. And we all know we can't do without it. So I think, certainly, some of the hype in AI is going to be real. But as always, in these kind of moments, some of it is a bit overhyped as well. Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Blake. I really appreciate your support of Future Generation Australia. And thank you very much for your time today and answering our shareholder questions. Pleasure to be here. Thank you. So I'm now going to get Geoff back on the screen. Hopefully, he's still there in New York. Brilliant. So we're having a few discount questions now. So I just thought we should sort of jump into it. Sarah's asked, what strategies will FGX employ to reduce the share discount to NTA in 2024? And then Damien's adding to that, sort of when is the board going to proactively manage the share price discount? This would contribute more to capital growth. The board is failing shareholders when it does not proactively manage risk. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, that statement is incorrect. Because in terms of the board, yeah, has various jobs to do. And in terms of saying that the share price trading at a discount NTA or trading at a premium NTA is about the board managing risk, in theory, the board obviously looks at the IC. And the IC decides which managers to allocate the money to. So the scarce assets that we all have, the AUD 550 million that's in FGX, that is invested wisely. And in terms of you heard from Blake, he's one of our investment managers. We've got the smartest group of fund managers managing his pool of capital. And if you look at it, and they're investing in what they believe are really undervalued, high-quality companies that are going to show really good growth. And Caroline mentioned the numbers earlier. In terms of if you look at those managers, they've probably got a skew to the smaller growth companies. But they have high levels of skills. So they've actually been able to outperform the All Ordinaries, but also, at the same time, outperform the Small Ordinaries over the last 12 months and also since inception. So to me, that's what the board's there to do and the investment committee. In terms of the share price, well, that's another thing. As Warren Buffett says, that's a weighing machine. In terms of the amount of people that are at the moment, because it's trading at a discount NTA, then there's more sellers than buyers. And part of it is that not an alignment, a full alignment of what the company and the board and the investment committee are trying to do and the understanding of the investor. Because if I was an investor looking at what the underlying fund managers have done in terms of performance these last 12 months, I'd be very happy. So that's that. But I don't think I answered that. That was more the second part of the question. The first part of the question was more about the discount. And I think what's being done on the discount. Now, Caroline can touch on it. But we're acutely aware of the discount. The last time FGX was at a premium was 2019. I think it was at about a 5% or 6% premium then. And it's gone to a discount. And it has been at a bigger discount. I think on, well, I mean, we haven't updated the numbers. But on last month's numbers, what was it? It was about a 12% discount. Probably, if you adjust for the market being up 1% or 2%, then it's probably maybe a 13% discount now. And the goal is for the share price to trade at a premium. And it's really the yeah. I mean, we've got to position the company so the people investing in it are the ones that want to be invested in this type of business. And at the moment, obviously, the ones selling, we're rolling out of people that have, for whatever reason, been frustrated. They could have been. I remember when soon after, I think FGX was floated, a shareholder rang and said, "Oh, is it going to come on at a 10% premium?" Well, it was never going to come well, actually, it did go to a premium in the year. No, no, it didn't. It went to a discount. FGG went to a premium early. But yeah, to me, it's misalignment of expectations. So acutely aware, Caroline. I mean, one thing, Caroline, do you want to just go through what you've been working on for the last 12 months in terms of building the brand and then prowling the field? And then the logic is to reap the benefits. But do you want to go through? Sure. So I mean, obviously, we are completely focused on getting it back to a premium. We've improved, I believe, the brand awareness. And our media presence is incredibly strong. I mean, we were online today in terms of one of the preferred companies to buy with sort of dividends. And that just popped up. So it's been really important, I think, to sort of raise that awareness of what we do and to actually make sure that people understand, yes, we are an investment vehicle. But we also give to not-for-profits to make a real difference. We're very lucky. We are supported by a very good corporate affairs team and a shareholder engagement team. And also, our fund managers help us there as well. So the other thing which I'm really delighted about is that we have, at the courtesy of Wilson Asset Management, we've got two full-time distribution personnel. And that's something we've never really had. And they give a lot of time and effort and thought in terms of how we're going to be talking to brokers and planners and wealth managers. And we've had a lot of interest there. I mean, these are a lot of strategic measures that we're actually doing to make sure we return the share price to a premium to NTA. But I also think it's very challenging markets there. And we just have to work really hard to actually make sure that happens. I think, as Geoff said, we've got a very strong investment portfolio in terms of its performance. We've got that growing stream of fully franked dividends. I think with targeted communication and that engagement strategy, it's all going to make sure that we meaningfully return the share price to a premium. That's over the medium term. We're very optimistic that that's going to happen. As Geoff said, it will happen. We're going to make sure it does by making sure we actually speak to our shareholders as much as we possibly can. We really pride ourselves on getting back to shareholders. Any of the questions we don't answer today, we will definitely follow up like we always do. But I think it's also making sure everybody understands what exactly we do in terms of our investment criteria and what we're trying to do on the bigger scale. So, I'm actually unless, Geoff, you had anything else to add. No, no. I would. And one of the things that we obviously, we're very aware of this. And we'd all be a lot happier if they're trading it well. We'd all be happy if they're trading at a premium. But it would be sad for the people paying a premium because they could have bought them at a discount. And we've spent a lot of time more recently about positioning. And in terms of how we've positioned the entities, and we're still doing quite a bit of further work on that. And maybe historically, we positioned them they are incredible investment vehicles. It's a great win for the investor to get exposure to these managers and not pay performance fees. So both combined entities have saved investors, I think, a little over AUD 60 million since they were set up. And so that's nearly half the fees. You're nearly getting this managed for half if you'd given your own money to the various managers that are managing. And probably, in terms of the positioning, we've spent a bit of time. I know the philanthropic side's very important. And in terms of how it gives back. But maybe for the investor, we spent too much time on that. And on that positioning, Jesse Hamilton, our CFO, sent us all around this great article about a person that just focuses on positioning. And they talk about. They live in the U.S. They talk about going for breakfast at 8:00 A.M. And I had to write this down because I just thought, it's incredible. So they're in the line for breakfast. And the person in front of them orders a double chocolate salted caramel muffin. Now, that's only in America. And the marketing or positioning person was standing behind that person and thought, what a stroke of marketing genius. If it was called a cake, then you can only have it for dessert. But because it was called a muffin, then you can have it at 8:00 A.M. And so in theory, what I mean, effectively, the Listed Investment Company, it's all about supply and demand. And where equilibrium is is when supply and demand are equal. And the equilibrium is when the share price is equal to the NTA. And we've just got to do a bit of work, a lot more work, we understand, on that positioning. Because it is an incredible product. And we have to have everyone aligned. And we've got to find the shareholders that want to invest in a Listed Investment Company. If you want to invest in a managed fund, go and invest in a managed fund. If you want to invest in an ETF to get in and out of the NTA, go and invest in an ETF. If you don't want fully franked dividend yields, don't invest in an LIC. Now, to me, these FGX and FGG, they have incredible assets. Now, they've got these profits reserves. They've got franking credits to frank the current dividends. And there'll be more franking credits as time goes on. And you get exposure to these incredibly smart fund managers cheaply. So to me, it's a great package. But I don't think we've been positioning it correctly. Caroline's done a fantastic job since she joined in terms of increasing the brand and the awareness. Now, we've got a sort of that's the plowing of the field. Now, we've got a harvest. Over the next year or so, I think that's what'll happen. It will. Thank you. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. Thanks, Caroline. So I mean, so we've got a question here from Tom. What are FGX's biggest holdings? For everybody, it's actually on page 12 of our annual report. But I mean, our biggest stocks are BHP, CSL, ANZ, QBE, CBA, Santos, CAR Group, Aristocrat, NAB, and Goodman. And you can see all the portfolio weightings. But Tom, I'll email that to you as well. And if anybody else wants it, please let me know. I'd be happy to go through the active weight. Yeah. Basically, what that is, is we've gone to all the fund managers. We do this on a regular basis and find out what their weightings are and then put it together with the whole portfolio. So we've got their weightings. And you'll see there that even though a number of those companies were large companies, because active managers tend to believe they can do better than just buying the large companies, if you just want to buy the large companies, you're better off buying an ETF where the active managers believe they can add value. So their weightings aren't. We're underweight the index because the active manager believes he can create value. The next question is, would you please report return and volatility based on FGX share price as well as NTA? That's from Steve. I mean, it's a fair point. I mean, we'll run the numbers. We'll send them to Steve definitely. One of the things about performance and the reason why we quote it gross, and now, we all know that 1% of the assets goes to charity. So you've got to take a 1% a year. So that's your net performance is because you're trying to look at the performance against the index. Now, if that's what you should but actually, that's probably, again, bad positioning for us. Because the investment committees collected the managers not to give you the same risk as the index and the same reward as the index. We've actually collected managers that are absolute managers that can short stocks, that can hold cash, that will actually give you a significantly better risk-adjusted return. Because we're getting the return in a listed investment company, if we make 10% on the assets in a year, then we pay 30% tax if those assets are realized. If they're not realized, then we provide 30% tax. And we pay it when they're realized. So you've got to remember the return. If the index returns you 10% a year, then the after-tax return on that index is 7% because it's paid 3% tax. And so that's how you've got to look at the LIC. So we've got a question from John in terms of, are there any future plans to increase the fund size, i.e., a share purchase plan? Yeah. I mean, John, that's all possible. It won't be done well, obviously, I'm one member on the board. It's obviously the board's decision. But I would say it'd be very unlikely that it would be done unless the company was trading at a premium NTA. I've got another question from actually, from another John. Would the share price to NTA change if FGX was a larger entity? Because 500 isn't a large fund these days. Yeah. There's no doubt there's a correlation between the size of the fund and premium and discount. If you're less than AUD 200 million LIC, all those smaller LICs trade at quite big discounts. The larger LICs, the AFICs and the Argos, trade a lot closer to NTA, if not premiums. I think AFIC and Argo, a little while ago, they were 10%+ premiums. We saw that when Soul Pattinson's bid for Milton. Milton was the third largest LIC. Now, on the LIC space, WAM Capital is the third largest. WAM Leaders is the fourth largest after AFIC and Argo. But when Soul Pattinson's bid for Milton and all they were doing, one investment company was taking over another investment company. There's no synergistic benefits. They weren't going to reduce staff, et cetera, et cetera. But I think the Soul Pattinson share price, because it was going to increase in size, went up 20-odd% just during that period that the bid was announced. So there's no doubt that people pay up for size and liquidity. And I think it's a function of the investment, the financial planners looking for there's a cost for liquidity in the space. So therefore, if they can buy AUD 5 million worth of stock and sell AUD 5 million worth of stock in a very short period of time, then they're prepared to pay a little bit of a premium for that. So I think that's the logic behind it. But we agree. What we've got to do is we've got to walk before we run. We've got to make sure the positioning statement's correct. We've got to make sure all the shareholders, that's 7,500-8,000 in FGX shareholders, are happy and are supportive of what we're doing. And then we've got to get more shareholders that want to come along for the ride. And then we are then trading at a premium. And then we can worry about increasing the size of the entity. The next question from Bill is, can you release the NTA more regularly or sooner than once a month? Yeah. Bill, look, it's really tricky because we're getting the end-of-month NTAs from all those fund managers that manage the money on our behalf. Then the accountants have got to put that together. One set of accountants works on it. Then they give it to another group. Then they obviously check everything. It's difficult. To me, if you want to try to work out what the end-of-month NTA is and what we tend to do as a rule of thumb is just assume that the performance is in line with the index. Even though over the last 12 months and since inception, we've beaten the index, but let's be conservative. Now, if the index you knew what the NTA was last month, if the index is up 1% and a bit since the last NTA was up, then you'd assume the NTA is up that amount. And if we're trading at a discount, then you're getting a good deal. We can't start our monthly NTAs until we've got all of the data from the fund managers. But we are looking to basically restructure our monthly NTAs. So we're going to be doing them separately, one for FGG and one for FGX. And we're also going to make them sort of easier to understand. We're going to put more about the investment philosophy in them as well. And I would love to see that. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to throw in. Definitely, Caroline. Any feedback, please. You guys own the company. Any feedback you've got, no matter what it is, please give it to us. Because it's only by fully understanding what all the investors think that we can do that. And that's part of what we're talking about, part of the goal of getting the entity FGX trading at a premium NTA is reducing the confusion, say, with FGG. Or let's just have it and that's part of that positioning statement we're talking about. We're basically going to talk about each of the different entities. There, at the end of the month, we're going to do a wrap with our fund managers. You actually have more of an insight from them as well and just an interview with one of our not-for-profits. As Geoff said, I love feedback. Any would be fantastically received. We have a question from Bruce, which you have partially answered in terms of whether quarterly reports can provide more composite portfolio metrics, re-country exposure, developed emerging market value growth exposures so they can understand more about what's under the hood. I mean, I totally understand where you're coming from. It's actually about more of the timing of when we get the reports that Geoff spoke about. Because we get that data. It's provided on a quarterly or semi-annual basis. We are updating our presentation there. Hopefully, we'll endeavor to get you more information that's relevant in that monthly investment update as well. I'm not sure we had any. Well, that's what I mean. Maybe let's just see rather than holding it out for the annual report or the half-yearly. Yeah. We'll do that. Maybe it's putting it in the monthly as well as putting it in there. So just in case not everyone sits down and reads the annual report, they might be focusing on the monthly and miss it. So one of the other questions we've had a question from David. This is more for you, Geoff, in terms of, is there any update on corporate raiders and their shareholdings? Yeah. Well, both FGX and FGG, what we understand is there aren't any corporate raiders on our register. And very happy for there to be corporate raiders on our register. It just makes an efficient market. In New York, I'm working over here. I'll be catching up on you're probably referring to the article in the Fin Review the other day about Saba. They play the closed-end fund market. And I'm catching up with them next week. And actually, there's a couple of other fund managers that play the closed-end fund market over here, I think Bulldog Investors. What a great name. And there's a couple others that I'm thinking I might just catch up with. We'll list them to you as well. Well, no, they don't invest in well, sorry, Saba invests in the Australian market. But that's only been in the last couple of years. They're new to the game down there. They've been playing around in credit default swaps for a long time and equities, closed-end funds more recently. But Australia, just very recently. So yeah. So I mean, if there was someone buying because they're cheap, hey, good on them. That's smart. I think that's a smart play. So we have one question from Andrew is, how is Future Generation tracking with pay equity through its organization? I'm asking that. Well, you're not to say that. I know. As the board doesn't get paid anything. Actually, have we got more both FGX; it's probably more males and females. FGG's. Well, I mean, I came off the board for FGX. So yeah, there's now only but I mean, they're both small boards. But in terms of the team that work on Future Generation, we are all females. So yes, I think in terms of comparing it, we're very good there. So that's something I'm very happy about. One more question. I think we've basically we've got another question on the discount. And I think we are I think we're good. I think we've answered pretty much most of them. So unless I get any final ones coming through, I think we're good. So well, thank you very much, Geoff. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Not at all. And look, thanks for your support. And please, as we said, it's your company, any feedback you've got, any ideas, any questions. Because the more you understand the company, then we want to be aligned. And any thoughts you've got on the positioning, how we should position the company because we're spending a lot of time on that. Because our goal is to get both entities trading back at premiums NTA where they used to. And that'll be a matter of time and a matter of hard work. And you can follow us as we achieve that. But thank you very much, Caroline. Thank you. I couldn't say that any better. So I just also want to thank my thanks to David Blake and Zoe for joining us today. I hope you all enjoyed their insights as well. As Geoff said, any questions? Please call us. You own the company. And we actually do this because you allow us to do it. So in terms of what we're going to do now, we're going to answer any of the other questions. If you have anything else or you want a fuller answer, just please email me. We are going to get the share price to trade at NTA. And I think when we all get to a premium, we'll be a lot happier. So I've now got a survey that's going to pop up. So I really appreciate your thoughts on this new structure of the webinar and anything else you can suggest. We have our roadshows coming up in April. If you go to our events page, you can register. We're also emailing everybody on a regular basis. I really hope that we see you. It'll be our fund managers and a not-for-profit. Also, Geoff and I will be there. Thank you very much for listening today. Thank you, Geoff.