Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the PointsBet Holdings Limited Q4 FY2023 Appendix 4C Investor Presentation Conference Call. All participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press the star key followed by the 1 on your telephone keypad. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sam Swanell, Group CEO. Please go ahead. Good morning. Thank you for joining the PointsBet Holdings Limited Q4 business update. I'm Sam Swanell, and joining me on the call today is our Group CFO, Andrew Mellor. Before we begin, please note the safe harbor statement. All numbers referred to are unaudited and in Australian dollars unless otherwise stated. The event during the quarter was the sale of our U.S. business to Fanatics for AUD 225 million. As previously announced, we intend to distribute capital to shareholders of approximately AUD 1.39 to AUD 1.44 per share. We expect the first tranche of approximately AUD 1 to be paid in mid-September. The second distribution will be made following final close, expected in the March 2024 quarter. The sale marks the beginning of an exciting chapter for our company. The new PointsBet will move to a fresh phase of growth and an expedited path to profitability, building on our strong market positions in Australia and Canada, driven by our in-house technology and led by our experienced PointsBet team. I'll talk more about this in a few minutes, but let me briefly review the quarter. Turning to slide 3. Total Q4 group net win was up 19% at AUD 102.3 million, with Australia returning to PCP growth, albeit small at 1%, Canada up significantly versus a nascent PCP, and the U.S. delivering strong net win growth of 35% versus the PCP. For the 2023 financial year, group total net win was AUD 391 million, growing 26% versus FY22. On June 30, 2023, the company held AUD 194.6 million in corporate cash. However, once adjusted for U.S. Business sale-related payments of AUD 7.5 million paid in Q4, which will be reimbursed at the second close, adjusted corporate cash at June 30, 2023, was AUD 202.1 million. Pleasingly, we kept our third ranking in Eilers and Krejcik's U.S. app testing for the fifth consecutive quarter. Turning to slide 6 to discuss the Australian Trading Business. During the reporting period, total net win for the Australian Trading Business was AUD 55.6 million, up 1% on the PCP. gross win margin improved to 14.4% versus 13.3% in the PCP, with notable improvements across sports, singles, and multis. The result was slightly higher than expected due to some favorable results, and as we tested different margin strategies, particularly in Racing. Continued focus on promotions efficiency led to the rate of promotions as a percentage of Gross Win, improving to 23%, compared to 30.6% in the PCP. This was enabled by tokenization, personalization, and data science. Sports performance continues to offset softness in Racing. During the quarter, net win growth from AFL and NRL combined was up 200%, and tennis and soccer combined was up 50%, both compared to the PCP. We continue to see strong, sustainable performance from our mass market clients, with net win from this cohort up 36% on the PCP. Improved gross win margin was delivered despite the Racing softness, which highlights the positive influence of the changing client mix and multi and sport margin improvement and penetration. Combined with the improved promotion efficiency, this delivered higher net win margin and led to less turnover, but leads to more efficient gross profit margins. Before turning to Canada, I would like to make some comments around the recent parliamentary inquiry into online gambling advertising in Australia. Let me begin by saying we at PointsBet are absolutely committed to responsible gambling. We have already implemented and continue to invest in responsible gambling technology solutions that help protect our customers. These include setting deposit and spend limits, taking a break functionality, and self-exclusion options. We welcome many of the changes recommended in the report by the House of Representatives Standing Committee, released in June. The report sets an important framework for a very active process of consultation for all stakeholders. This includes the Federal Government, racing and sporting bodies, wagering operators, and media companies to land on an agreed model that reflects our shared objectives of responsible gambling and harm minimization. Ultimately, we believe this is an important area for the long-term sustainability of the industry. Our view is that with higher standards in these areas, we will see a reduction in the long tail of smaller operators that simply do not invest sufficiently in appropriate responsible gambling measures. Companies in the industry like PointsBet, that value their reputation and are committed to high responsible gambling standards, will benefit over the mid and long term. The final model across the 31 committee recommendations still needs to be finalized, but with the right intent and focus from stakeholders, we expect that the outcome will be a workable, sensible, and fair solution. Now, turning to slide 7, Canada. The June quarter is quieter for North American sport. Within this seasonality, we were pleased to see momentum in our Canadian sportsbook and online casino offerings during the quarter. Total sportsbook handle was AUD 42.5 million, with strong interest throughout the NBA and NHL playoffs, combined with the opening of the MLB season. Our in-play mix of total handle grew to 68% in Q4, up from 53% in the PCP, as customers continue to experience and enjoy our top-tier live betting capability. Sportsbook gross win cut was AUD 3.3 million, at a gross win margin of 7.7%, sportsbook net win came in at AUD 1.9 million, at a 4.4% net win margin. We saw another quarter of good gross win margin, driven by a higher mix of parlays, we anticipate margins staying around 7% going forward. On iGaming, we delivered AUD 3.6 million in net win. Quarter on quarter, net win was flat, as a strong performance in April and May was impacted by volatility in June on table games, with some partial offset to this, driven by growth in slots. For the quarter, we delivered total net win of AUD 5.5 million, and we finished the financial year with full year net win of AUD 18.3 million in our first full year of operation. While the Ontario market is competitive, our Canadian business continues to perform well. The strength and quality of the customers that are making the choice to play on PointsBet demonstrates the effectiveness of our strategy. Twelve-month rolling cash actives grew to over 30,000, up 8% from Q3. Total marketing spend was CAD 5.5 million in Q4, down 22% versus the PCP, as we continue to get more efficient in acquiring our target customer. We also delivered key operational and technological enhancements, aimed at reducing customer friction throughout the onboarding journey, which resulted in significantly improved performance of our conversion funnel in Q4. As we look ahead to FY24, we're looking forward to delivering growth in Canada. We have a top-tier North American sports betting product, an exciting product roadmap, and we'll continue to invest in our product and app experience for both sportsbook and online casino. We are keeping a close eye on developments in Alberta, as the recently re-elected provincial government continues to consider opening up the regulated gaming market. Turning to Slide 8 on the U.S. We saw solid trading results from our U.S. business. As I've said throughout FY23, our U.S. strategy continued to be optimized for net win growth rather than handle. We focused hard on the super user cohort that appreciates our leading product. During Q4, we demonstrated efficient monetization of retained clients post-March Madness throughout the NBA playoffs and MLB regular season. Total net win was up 35% on the PCP, to AUD 41.2 million. We grew revenue PCP across both sports and iGaming. Sports betting net win was up 20% to AUD 28.6 million. The improvement was underpinned by a healthy net win margin of 5.5%, which was up 2 percentage points from 3.5% last year. The superior net win margin result came from a combination of higher gross win margin and lower promotional expense. Gross trading margin was 8.2%, 2.1 percentage points higher than the PCP. Adjustments to trading strategy were ongoing throughout the third and fourth quarters. Record quarterly iGaming net win of AUD 12.6 million was 89% higher than the PCP. Improved product enhancements during the quarter included Same Game Parlay Combo, where bettors can combine multiple Same Game Parlays across different games. We also expanded our MLB offering, produced by our Odds Factory platform, including In-Play player props. During the quarter, we also successfully launched a PointsBet Racing app in the United States. I will now hand to Andrew Mellor to walk through our quarterly cash flow statement. Thank you, Sam. Turning to Slide 9. As of June 30, 2023, the company held AUD 194.6 million in corporate cash. Once adjusted for U.S. business sale-related payments of AUD 7.5 million paid in Q4, which will be reimbursed at the second close of the U.S. business sale, adjusted corporate cash at the June 30, 2023, was AUD 202.1 million. Q4 net cash used in operating activities, excluding movement in player cash accounts and excluding U.S. business sale-related payments, was AUD 28.8 million, a reduction of 51% on the prior quarter. Seats from customers for the quarter totaled AUD 105.9 million, slightly lower than last quarter. Cash outflows during the quarter included cost of sales of AUD 56.7 million, in line with last quarter. Non-capitalized staff costs of AUD 25.8 million was slightly lower than Q3. Marketing cash outflow of AUD 36.1 million was 68% lower than Q3, and Administration, Corporate costs, and GST paid on Australian Net Win of AUD 24.9 million was higher than Q3, due to the U.S. Business sale-related payments, as previously noted. Net cash used in investing activities during the quarter ending June 30, was AUD 11 million, in line with Q3, and AUD 1.5 million cash was used in financing activities, also in line with Q3. H2 FY23 net cash outflows, excluding movement in player cash accounts and excluding U.S. business sale-related payments in Q4, was AUD 112.6 million, 28% lower than H1 FY23, in line with previous guidance. The company's H2 FY23 group normalized EBITDA loss will be in line with previous guidance. We look forward to presenting our full-year results on August 31. Sam? Thanks, Andy. Turning to slide 10 for an update on the Fanatics transaction and proposed distributions. As can be seen from the detail on the slide, the PointsBet and Fanatics teams are progressing very well with the transitionary requirements. The U.S. state-by-state regulatory approval process across our 14 jurisdictions is tracking as planned. We will send out the notice of meeting, asking shareholders to approve the proposed distributions of AUD 1.39-AUD 1.44 soon. The targeted first tranche of approximately AUD 1 per share is on track for a mid-September payment, subject to shareholder approval and first close of the transaction. Turning to slide 11, let's talk about the new PointsBet and why we are so excited about our future in Australia and Canada. Firstly, our proprietary tech stack is a global market leader, as validated by our sale of the platform to the Fanatics. While we have sold a copy of the technology to Fanatics, importantly, we get to keep the technology. That means we can develop and exploit it in a manner that creates the most value for PointsBet shareholders. Secondly, we keep a copy of the Odds Factory technology assets, which drives our market-leading in-play and same-game parlay products and cash out features, used in all of our markets, but particularly powerful in the North American live betting market. Finally, we retain as part of an appropriately sized team, the company's market-leading technologists, traders, quants, based in Australia, Canada, and India. The sale of Angstrom Sports to Entain last week, gives shareholders a data point for the value of our technology, and in particular, Odds Factory. The total consideration announced for Angstrom Sports was GBP 81 million, plus contingent payments totaling a maximum of GBP 122 million, payable over three years. Angstrom Sports is a specialist provider of sports modeling, forecasting, and data analytics, and we believe our Odds Factory capability are superior. Our Australian operation has a strategically important place in the Australian wagering market. We intend to continue to grow our share in this market from a current solid 5% position, with the benefit of a more focused approach from our people and our tech and product perspective. While further financial details will be provided with our full year results next month, FY23 will be the fourth straight year the Australian Trading Business is EBITDA positive. We are equally excited in the outlook for our Canadian business. The Canadian business provides shareholders continued exposure to the North American market through a jurisdiction that is more attractive than most U.S. states. There are no partner fees, an acceptable tax rate, and iGaming complementing sports betting for the entire market. We believe the early stage of the Canadian business complements our more mature Australian business, as well as providing an opportunity to leverage attractive features of our tech stack that aren't available in the Australian market, such as iGaming and online live betting. Turning to slide 12. I would now like to provide some FY24 commentary on the remaining operations, Australia and Canada, to be referred to as the company. Total net win for the company is expected to be 10%-20% higher than FY23. Total marketing expense for the company is expected to be 15%-20% lower than FY23, whilst 12-month rolling cash actives at June 2024, are expected to be higher than those at June 2023. In summary, we will grow our net win and our active client base, while being able to reduce our marketing investment due to our improving product and execution. The company currently expects EBITDA to be close to breakeven, post the close of the Fanatics transaction. Global headcount is to be reduced to circa 275 FTE by second close, down from 650 FTE, as at June 30, 2023. The company expects a significant cost reduction in technology segment expenses, corporate segment expenses, as well as a reduction in capitalized technology costs in FY 2024. The company currently expects the positive EBITDA of the Australian Trading Business to significantly offset EBITDA losses of the Canadian Trading Business in FY 2024, as Canada builds scale. Importantly, we do not anticipate additional capital will be required to deliver positive group EBITDA in FY 2025. I'm now happy to take questions. Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you are on a speakerphone, please pick up the headset to ask your question. Your first question comes from David Fabris from Macquarie. Please go ahead. Hi, Sam. Hi, Andy. Look, I had a couple of questions on the Australian business. I mean, if we look at that net win margin in Australia in the fourth quarter, it was at a record level. I get it, there's some generosity benefit in there, but can you quantify the luck factor and whether that was more in sport than, than racing? Then secondly to that, can you maybe talk to how we should think about a long-run net win margin in the business going forward? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the question, David. Yeah, I think Q4, you know, a lot of things, was a combination of a lot of things that we've been working on through the year, but I did, you know, I definitely did call out that there was favorable results that, that came through there, and it was in both racing and sport. You know, we track expected margin, and then, you know, we see how actual margin turns out. I think as it relates to the promotional efficiency and, you know, the improvement that we've made through the year, giving away less of that trading margin to get down to the net win, you know, that's the gradual improvement that we've made throughout the year with our personalization and our tokenization. You know, I don't believe that we will see FY24 margins at 14.4%. You know, that's, that's, that's not our desired starting point. You know, something a little bit below that would be our desired starting point. We do expect to see, you know, continued marketing promotions efficiency. You know, that net win gap between gross and net, you know, we expect that to be around the same mark. No, we don't expect it to be sort of 14.4 down to 11.1, a little bit less than that. We have certainly made improvement in being able to generate improved trading margins from multi-products, sports, we did as we called out on the call, we did do some experimentation in Q4 around our racing margins as well. Yeah, going forward, we would, we would guide to a little bit lower than both Gross and Net as what was achieved in Q4. Great. That's helpful. Just one last question: Can you give any color on the makeup of your book of turnover? You know, the skewing to sport versus racing. That'd be helpful. Yeah, I mean, look, I, I don't think we've ever, I don't think we've disclosed it. What I will say is this, is that we've disclosed clearly that, Racing has been coming under pressure and Sports has been picking up. You know, previously, what that would mean would be that, you know, there would be pressure on your margins, and we maybe saw a bit of that, early on in this year. As our, let's call it, our Sports products has improved, as our multi-product has improved, you know, that. I suppose that differentiation that you lose margin as soon as you lose Racing turnover is, is less so now. It's getting more like for like. Racing off a bit, Sports growing, Racing still the majority at this stage, though. Perfect. Thank you very much. Your next question comes from Rohan Sundram from MST Financial. Please go ahead. Hi, team. Question for Sam. Just Sam, around the pathway to profitability in Canada, how is that looking at the moment? Just looking at the net win of AUD 18 million and the Q4 marketing of AUD 5 million, it looks not far off, but maybe can you talk us through the moving parts and how that could all change if there's an outlook for new state entries? Yeah, thanks, Rohan. Yeah, I mean, I think if you think about it, you know, broadly, a three-year cycle. You know, this was the first year. You, you spend your marketing dollars, you start building your client base, new starts coming in the door. You know, I think from the guidance that we've given around FY24, we would expect that, that Australia would largely offset Canada's losses in, in, in FY24. You'd expect that trajectory to continue and the losses to reduce, and then, you know, the guidance that we've given that we think we, you know, Canada will be EBITDA positive in, in FY25. It's a, you know, it's, it's not far off from an EBITDA perspective, you know, sort of a bit of a straight line trajectory that what you lose this year, and you can see what we lost in the first half in our H1 results. Probably, you know, you won't have to wait long to see what H2 was, but extrapolate that and reduce that next year and, and then, as I said, get to break-even profitability in FY25. I think the, the difference in, in, in Canada, like as we called out, is in, in U.S., we were live in 14 states, and only four of the 14 had iGaming. In Canada, you have one state that's live, and it has iGaming. Your path to profitability and the efficient monetization that you get is stronger. Plus, you know, we're just getting better. We're getting better every quarter. Our product's getting better. You know, that's been seen in the American results, and we'll see that in, in the Canadian results. As it relates to the potential expansion of Alberta, unlike here in America, we don't anticipate that that comes with a whole round of additional costs. You know, when you open a new state in America, it's its own country, basically. Canada will, will be province by province, but the expectation is that the synergy benefits are, are far higher. As it relates to some of our marketing spend, your performance marketing is very targeted, so you're only targeting people in the province of Ontario at the moment with your performance marketing. You get that, you get that very targeted. As it relates to above the line, you know, there's certainly some spend that we're making that floats into other jurisdictions of, of Canada. And so, you know, if an Alberta was to open up, you naturally get some, some marketing efficiencies there, and as I said, you get a lot of operational synergies, so there's not a, there's not a lot of cost that, that, that, that increases. Okay. Thanks, Sam. Last one, just on the Aussie market. With the turnover down 16% year-over-year, is it getting to the point where? Are you still looking, would you like to grow that turnover, or are you looking to manage that for yield and looking for stronger outcomes at the net win line? Yeah. I think historically, we'd always lagged the market, Rohan, in terms of our margins. You know, we were probably lower at the gross level, and we were certainly lower at the net level because when you're starting out, you're extra aggressive on promotions. We didn't quite have the product and the personalization, you know, to get our promotions as efficient. We've made a lot of that improvement this year. A lot of it's related to, you know, I suppose the profile as you go through. The reality is, is that we are operating in a higher cost of sales environment. Over the last few years, there has been more taxes come in, and so if you don't get your net win margin s ort of, you know, up to sort of 9, 10%, you're a bit behind the eight ball in terms of your gross profit margin. You know, it is, you know, the fact that we've delivered the same net win as the PCP of less turnover, that is a bit of a sign of the times, you know? You would expect there to be more net win growth rather than turnover growth. I think, I think that's, that's the reality. Thanks, Sam. Your next question comes from Donald Nicholas Carducci from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Good morning, everyone. Maybe Sam, could you tell us what your assumptions are for turnover over the course of the next year? I mean, you flagged out that Racing's soft, you've called that out. Are we gonna see the market continue to step down for a period of time? Because the turnover performance feels like it's more of a market issue, given, what you guys have delivered. Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a million-dollar question, Don. You know, look, we think the market this year has contracted more than... You know, we're down 2% year-on-year from a net win perspective, and we believe we've grown our market share. We're, we're calling out that we think the market as a whole is down greater than 2%, probably greater than 5%. You know, we'll, we'll see when everyone starts reporting where that, where that ends up. Obviously, there was a lot of growth in prior years, especially the COVID year. We think the market, the online market, can return to growth. We certainly, again, though, expect to outperform the market. I think this comes down to this discussion we're just saying with Rohan around turnover growth versus net win growth. You know, we're, we're very much focused on net win growth. You can go out there and buy turnover, you can buy gross win, but if you're not getting decent gross profit margins, you just can't, you can't aspire to good profitability. We think the market will return to modest net win growth, and we, we think we can outperform that modest net win growth and grow our market share. Maybe what's your working assumption around what you guys are gonna do for promotions or generosities into the Spring Carnival, and what would you expect? I mean, no one's really mentioned Betr here in, in some time. Are you thinking this Spring Carnival will be different than, say, last year? Yes. You know, I think, you know, Betr, obviously brand new into the market last year, as you do when, when you have that first opportunity to, you know, to go aggressive. They did that, so I don't see another Betr on the horizon for, for this market. You know, we do expect that. Again, there was a lot of growth in operators on the back of the COVID and then the ability to do some sort of, let's call it, cost-effective B2B platform solutions that are out there. We do expect that a lot of those strategies that have been used by earlier stage operators, they just get harder and harder in an environment where you're not, you're not making good net win margins, and that, that's, that's the, that's the key. We don't, we wouldn't expect it to be quite as aggressive. I think when it relates to marketing and promotions from our perspective, what, what we're really saying is, we can do more with less now. You know, we've, we-- Because we're more targeted now, our product is better at retaining clients, we can actually deliver decent margins and, and, and give away less with more targeted promotions. We can do more with less. The other operators with good products and, and good platforms can, can do more with less. That's harder to do, if you don't have that, that, that, that capability. No, we wouldn't expect it to be as aggressive. We can do more with less, and that's, that's what's gonna drive that, that growth in net win that we've spoken about. Last one from me. Given the softer racing results, are you seeing maybe an outsized deterioration in specific codes, like Greyhounds, or are you seeing this generally across the board? Yeah, I mean, there are some codes that are, that are slightly coming under more pressure, but we, we see it. There, there was some periods there, perhaps, that, you know, Greyhound racing was maybe the strongest beneficiary of the finding gaps in the racing clock and, and, you know, through that COVID period, et cetera. And maybe there was some corrections there from some of the data that we see, but that seems to have evened off a little bit. No, I think, I think I'm right in saying that it's, it's, it's pretty even, even across the board for racing. You know, Racing was coming off some really big peaks, so, you know, they're going through a transition at the moment, and let's hope it can get back to growing that product going forward. Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Your next question comes from Bradley Beckett, from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good morning, Sam and Andy. Just one from me. In regards to the FY24 remaining co-marketing guidance, for 15%-20% lower, is this contingent on Australia's proposed December ban on inducement ads? If not, is it fair to say there's some conservatism in that guidance if those changes are brought in? Good day, Brad. No, they're not. It's not contingent on that. Sort of as I sort of just mentioned to Don, you know, we really believe now that we can do more with less, you know? The last two Spring Carnivals, you can see it in our H1 numbers, that we had some really big marketing spend in H1 the last two years, and then we've eased off in H2. We spent the same on marketing this year as we did last year. As our efficiency has improved, you know, as our ability to target from a marketing perspective and a promotions perspective, and as our products improve, so it retains better, it does a better job of working for us. We think we can get the same effectiveness with less spend. We've learned some lessons, and we think that we can find some efficiencies. Separate to that, you know, the, the Government reviewer report, yeah, there, there, there are elements of what we did in the last two years from a above the line mass market approach that I spoke about in Spring Carnival, H1, H1 sort of approaches. You know, we, we don't-- as I said, we don't plan to repeat that. That, that's probably aligned to, to some of the things that the Government wants to achieve, but, but it's a separate decision point for us. Okay. Thanks for that, Sam. Your next question comes from Chris Savage from Bell Potter Securities. Please go ahead. Thanks. Sam, hey, Andy. Maybe one for Andy. Just on the cash, correct me if I'm wrong, but the guidance was around AUD 205 million. Was the like-for-like figure the AUD 195, or is it the adjusted figure of AUD 202? Yeah. Hi, Chris. Thanks for the question. Yeah, I think we, we've made that call out that the corporate cash ended the year at AUD 194.6 million. We did make some payments in Q4 that related to the PointsBet U.S. sale of AUD 7.5. They will be reimbursed at the close of the PointsBet U.S. sale. We've referenced it as an adjusted corporate cash of AUD 202.1, which is probably slightly below your, your number of AUD 205. Okay, pretty close. Just around the EBITDA of 2024 and 2025, when you say Australia will largely offset Canada in 2024, that's still before technology and corporate costs, right? The group EBITDA would still be negative, correct? Yeah, I think what we're calling out. Yeah. You go, Sam. No, you go. You go, Andy. It's fine. Yeah, no, you know, I think we've got four segments: Australian Trading, Canada, technology, corporate. The reference there was pretty specific, Chris, you're right, Australia versus Australian Trading versus Canada trading. Now, we, as you're aware, we do charge the technology costs into those two trading segments, so there is a, there is a pickup there from as it relates to technology. There's also corporate costs and, you know, we've a couple of references in the deck relate to obviously headcount falling from 650 circa at end of June, this 2023 to, to sort of 275 post-close. I think there's some references you can make towards reduction in corporate costs through FY24 as well. We'll be able to speak to that more broadly, at our August result on the 31st. I guess w hen you say positive Group EBITDA in FY25, Australia and Canada is a big enough positive to offset whatever remaining costs there are for technology and corporate? Yeah, that's, that's correct. Cool. All right. Thanks very much. Cheers. No problem. Your next question comes from Phil Chippendale from Ord Minnett. Please go ahead. Hi, guys. Most of mine have already been addressed. One for Andy. Just looking at the cash flows, you know, going forward, you know, from an investing cash flow perspective, you know, obviously without the PointsBet U.S., you've got a very different scope of business overall. What can we sort of expect here in terms of ongoing or sustainable sort of CapEx or R&D investment? Yeah. Hi, Phil. Thanks for the question, it's a good one. Just to frame it up, you'll see from the, from the four C for the full financial year, cash flows from investing as it relates to the main one being capitalized development cost was just over AUD 41 million. It's probably a good reference to use, Phil, for the go forward, the reduction in headcount. I mean, I think the reduction in headcount is circa 57%. Obviously, as we roll through the new model, we will be, you know, a lot of the technology staff in the U.S. and Ireland will go with the Fanatics, and then the technology staff in Australia, Canada, and India will be with RemainCo. There would be a significant reduction. We haven't sort of split out what our technology staff changes will be, but that 57% reduction is probably a reasonable guide to, to start with, as it references what was AUD 41 million in FY2023. Okay, thanks. That's useful. Cheers. There are no further questions at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.