Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the RPM Global Holdings FY 2024 full year results briefing. If you wish to ask a question via the webcast, please type your question into the Ask a Question box and click Submit. I would now like to hand the conference over to Richard Mathews, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director. Please go ahead. Yeah, welcome everyone to the call. Thanks very much for your time this morning. Now, I guess for the people that have seen these presentations for a while now, you'll notice that there's quite a few slides missing, so what I've done this time is really focus the presentation to our current shareholders. You know, we have to spend more time talking about our customers, about the products, where the products fit, how the customers use those products, so you know, we've dropped out things like customer logos and infographics and that type of thing, so it's a bit shorter, a bit more concise. It's really, you know, more of about a report card on last year's performance and what we expect to happen this year, so hopefully we'll get through it a little bit quicker and you know, there'll be more time for questions. So, just bear that in mind. So if we just look at that title page, I think my last one was a golf course, for people that remember it. This time, we're using an actual product, so that's the Xecute product, which is obviously having quite a bit of success in the market at the moment. That's actually a screenshot of the product being used in an iron ore mine. So as you can see, it's very visual, very graphic, graphical, spatial components to it as well. So it's a very good communication tool, I guess, between the planning and the execution teams. When we actually built Xecute, the first thing we added into that product was the ability to animate the plan. So you can actually, over time, just pull a dial forward and back and enables people to actually see how the plan's going to be, is gonna be achieved. More recently, we've added in simulation, so we can simulate different plans, same sort of animation, graphical animation. And pretty soon, we're going to integrate Fleet Optimizer, our newest product, into the product. And that integration with other products as well will optimize the number of trucks with the loaders. So you know, that will be a pretty expensive model for people to buy, but you know, the returns are immediate because you know, the last thing you wanna do is have trucks parked up or too many trucks for certain loads as well. So this time around, I thought I would just include a product snap. So there you go. Right. In terms of the actual presenters, we've dropped a couple. The last presentation, Philippe Baudry was here, talking about the advisory business. But as I mentioned at the time, pretty tough for him because, you know, most of the stuff that we do is confidential, so, you know, he can't really talk about the customers. He finds it very difficult to talk about the number, you know, the engagements that they're on, and so forth. So we probably won't send him over here, but I'll spend some time talking about the advisory business. That obviously went really, really well. You know, they, we're expecting them to have another good year this year as well, coming up, but he won't be speaking today. David Batkin, we dropped him as well. As you'll see on page 9, we deal with a real winning set of products now, software products. So this will be the first presentation, I think, in the 12 years that I've given, that there hasn't been some new product information, talking about new products that we're building and that we're gonna introduce into the market. We now feel that we've got a real winning set of products, and we're gonna be working with customers to sort of add different modules to the solution. So he's off out talking to customers and about, you know, what areas of the business do they want to replace other software with modules of ours. So you've just got me and MK here today. So if we move on to slide three, I'm not gonna go through these points, you know, point by point. I just, you know, I'll pick out some of the highlights and some of the relationships between them all. Really, I guess, the story is just about consistent profitable growth. As expected, you know, revenue, EBITDA, and profit all went up year on year. And I guess we're a simple business from a capital perspective. We use a couple of million dollars or spend a couple of million dollars in capital. We don't really own anything other than the IP of our products. So our operational cash flow should really come in line with about our EBITDA. So, and if you look at last year, EBITDA was, you know, 15.3 million, and our cash inflows were 16.5 million. So a little more than EBITDA last year. Interestingly, though, if you look at those and the cash spent, you'll see EBITDA 15.3, cash in from operation 16.5, but we spent 12.7 on the buyback. So we actually spent 77% of our cash inflows on buying back shares in the company, and about 83% of the EBITDA buying back those shares. So when you think of us from a capital management strategy, it's pretty simple. You know, make money, buy shares. So it doesn't get much more simpler than that. Obviously, we don't have a lot of franking credits at the moment, so you know, in the next three or four years, once we use up all our tax losses-... We start having franking credits, then we'll decide whether we use dividends or continue with the current management strategy, capital strategy. I did want you to see below there how we start the year. It was a good year last year. Obviously, we start the year in great shape across all of the businesses, components of the business. But I did wanna make a couple of comments in relation to where we're starting the year. I did notice, you know, we put our results out last year, so yesterday, we noticed that there's certainly some keyboard warriors out there who were looking at the company's market cap as a percentage of profit. You know, I think they're missing the whole point, right? The really big, important metric for us, certainly for ourselves, for myself and for the board, is that software license backlog. That AUD 161 million, again, that's non-cancellable, that's already contracted. You know, that will just flow into the business over the future years. So now, if you look at what we reported in terms of software subscription revenue last year, AUD 45 million, that AUD 151 million represents about three and a half years of software licenses, which we don't have to do anything to. We've sold them, customers are non-cancellable. Cancellable customers will pay for those. But for whatever reason, no one seems to wanna give us credit for it. So I know I bang on about it, but that's real money, and the type of customers that we're working with, you know, the big Tier 1s and the tier twos in mining, you know, there isn't, you know, risk associated with payment. So we think that's what gives us the leverage, that backlog, to continue with this consistent profitable growth. We understand that, you know, a lot of short-term thinkers like talking about ARR. You know, we don't look one year out, we look five years out. So TCV and annual TCV is the way we run the business. That's what we think about. We're trying to generate as much license backlog as we can, so we can get that financial leverage. We finished the year buying shares. As I said earlier, we spent AUD 12.7 million buying shares in through last year, and we've started the year doing exactly the same. So we're not even two months in, and we bought AUD 6.7 million worth of the company's shares. So, as I had one shareholder point out to me a while back, and I think he's actually on the call today, so he'll know what I'm talking about. You know, when you look at our EPS, it's not just growing from growing profits, but it's also increasing because there's less shares on issue. So, we're pretty clear on what our strategy is. We think we're doing it, we're doing it well in terms of consistent, profitable growth, and we're pushing up our EPS as quickly as we can. So we go to page 4. Again, I just want to make a couple of points in relation to that slide. We missed guidance last year for a couple of reasons, and we highlighted that to shareholders on the second of July. There was two reasons for it. The first was the perpetual license sales number. Pretty much every year since I've been here, and certainly since we moved to a subscription base, there's been, you know, there's sort of a flush through at the end of the year. Normally about AUD 1 million of perpetual licenses. It's really, it's really companies who are flushing out their capital budgets, and because they've got capital left, you know, they'll make a bunch of small purchases. Normally, you know, AUD 1 million, you know, 1.1, 1.2. Last year, to put that in perspective, we sold AUD 1,000 worth of perpetual licenses in the last month of the year. So, you know, there was just nothing there at all. You know, it was historically had occurred last year, didn't happen at all. For people that understand how perpetual licenses are actually reported, the revenue is reported in the year that it's sold. So, there was about a 1.6 million dollar miss there, as you'll see, purely because of that. Again, something you don't know about until the last day of the year. Second reason was the subscription sales that we sold were back-end loaded again. We're trying our best to get away from it. It's not working so well. You know, we sort of budget to have these subscriptions sold at sort of a little bit more balanced across the year. We obviously back-end load it from a budgeting forecasting point of view, but when they all come at the back end, then you don't get the benefit of some subscription revenue flowing through into the accounts in that one year. So, you know, last year, we sold AUD 77 million worth of software licenses, of only which AUD 8 million actually flowed through into the 2024 annual accounts. So, you know, those were the two reasons. We didn't lose the sales. They just came later than we'd like. You know, it's. When you look at setting these targets, 2023, we made the TCV target in the last day of the year. In 2004 last year, we made it on Saturday, the 29th, so the second to last day of the year. That's pretty good targeting. But what it does do is it, you don't really know where you're gonna finish up until the, till the right at the end. The other thing I'd like to sort of point out on that slide, and we've said for quite a period of time now, we really wanna sell enough subscription licenses in any one year, so there's an additional AUD 10 million in revenue, which flows into future years through that software subscription backlog as well. So if you look at, you'll see that last year, we got AUD 3.1 million from that royalty, that Flex royalty that we spoke to you about, and foreign exchange. So when you actually look at, if you take into account the EBITDA guidance, which we're saying is gonna be up by AUD 3.1 million, obviously, you have to be able to replace that AUD 3.1 million one-off sale last year in the FX, you're around about AUD 6.9-AUD 7 million, an additional sort of contribution. So that's about 70% of the flow through. So we've talked to shareholders about that a lot. I know it's a metric that people like to look at, but you know, when we're adding subscription revenue, the lion's share of it, it does flow through to the accounts. We move to slide five. Who is running the slides? A couple of quick points I just wanna make on those, on that slide. We think R&D costs are fit, and that's obviously because what I spoke about earlier. You know, we're now, you know, if you look at our strategy of building out the products, we've been going for 12 years now. We think we've got a really winning set of portfolios. It's a little bit, you know, if you look at it from a strategy point of view, it's sort of build it and they will come. Pretty risky strategy, I guess, but in this case, it's been quite successful. So we're now at a stage now where we're saying, "You know, we've built our field, people have come." Yeah, now what we really wanna do is work with our customers on replacing other solutions that they've got in there. So, you know, what modules can we build? You know, so David's out there talking to them, saying, "What modules can we build that replaces an internal system that you've got or an external system that you've got?" So, you know, building the modules with the customers and, and certainly if they want it, we'll be sort of co-funding it with them. And the same thing, if customers wanna bring forward, enhancements or not really enhancements, but modules that are in the pipeline, sort of development pipeline, or roadmap, then, you know, there'll be a cost associated with that. We're not looking at turning the whole development team into a revenue line. Don't want you to misunderstand that at all. But, you know, there is, you know... The big customers are prepared to pay for things that they want. You know, we did a couple of those development projects last year, as you know, and I've spoken with customers, and with the shareholders, and they were very, very successful. When someone pays for something, they put a lot more effort into it. So, we've found that's been really successful in terms of, you know, scoping out the products, having them tested, having them field tested, retrofitted and those types of things. So, we like that strategy. So it really means that, you know, development's gonna be targeted in that area, and we don't need to just keep building and adding new products. We're pretty happy with the portfolio that we actually have. You'll notice there was 27 new hires in 2024. The majority of those hires were revenue-producing hires in either the advisory or the software consulting area. We run pretty lean on head office. You know, we haven't added any new people in HR, legal, finance, any of those other sort of head office costs. It's really about adding people who can generate revenue. So obviously the revenues, you know, we're budgeting for that, but also budgeting for the costs as well. I wanted to just highlight, and you'll see I've said that about the IT costs going up, 'cause what we're finding is a lot more customers wanna pilot the software or trial the software, and I thought it might just, you know, just a little bit of time on that so you understand what that really means. So certainly, with the big companies, security is becoming more and more important. You know, you know, looking at, you know, they're spending a lot of money on making sure that there's, you know, cyber's under control and those types of things. So when a customer now wants to trial or pilot a pilot, the software, they're coming to us and saying, "Can we pilot in your environment?" Which means we have to stand up, you know, the Azure environments. We load the software, then they can trial it, test it with their people. So, we get a lot more of those requests. A lot of situations, you know, they pay for that as well, so. But it does mean that we're standing up more and more of those environments. I'm sure people are gonna wanna surely be a couple of questions about pilots and what does it really mean to TCV, 'cause we've got a lot of pilots out there at the moment. So why don't I knock that on the head now? So I've used the word pilots here, a lot more than pilots. It could be pilots, it could be proof of concepts, it could be trials, it could be first test sites and those types of things. I've used the word pilot as an all-encompassing word there. But what we're certainly finding is, we're finding that we're pretty much winning in the surface mining, any evaluation that's out there, you know, we feel pretty good about winning that. Once you've won the evaluation, you know, customers, you know, signing up for five-year agreements, so it's a lot of money. So a lot of the big ones are wanting to trial a site, get the users to get familiar with the software, get the users to, you know, sort of sign off that, you know, they can see the benefits and so forth. 'Cause it's not like in the old perpetual days, just really signing up to buy some licenses and, you know, years' maintenance. Now, these are big chunks of cash, so the procurement teams really wanna know that, the software's gonna do what their users want it to do. So what we're doing is we're signing agreements, long-term agreements with these customers, for which there's often a pilot. And at the end of the pilot, there's a termination for convenience clause. We charge the customers some money for working with them on the pilot, but in terms of the, you know, software and the services and those types of things. But it's only once that termination for convenience falls away, that we then start to talk about, you know, we start talking about TCV and what we've actually sold. As a good example, last night, we did a big deal with a U.S. company, gold company, where they've signed a long-term agreement, but it carries inside that agreement, a pilot for, I think, a six-month pilot. We don't announce TCV, but we have a pretty good feeling if someone's gonna spend the money going into a pilot, you know, a pilot of AMT can cost you $1 million. So it's not like, you know, they're definitely going into it with their eyes open, but everyone wants to be successful. Haven't really had a situation where, you know, software hasn't been successful. So, you know, as long as we do a really good job and the customer's happy, then, you know, they waive those termination for convenience clauses, and the license becomes active. So pilots are quite important for us. Often what actually happens is someone will move from... 'Cause people move in the mining industry quite a lot. So someone will move and use AMT at one mine. They'll move to another mine, and they'll go, "Look, that software's pretty awesome, guys. Why don't we pilot it? I'll show you how good it is, and then we can buy it," so a lot more pilots going on than we have had in the past. We don't really encourage them. We'd prefer them, they just buy the software obviously. But it's a good way for the customers to get comfortable about signing up for a very large license. Obviously, commissions, everything else goes up as you sell more. Leave entitlements, the team's pretty busy, so it's probably having that. We didn't have quite as many holidays as some of the software consulting advisory guys would've liked, but nothing there out of untoward. You'll see that we finished the restructuring in the Americas business, which I've been talking about for a while now, so they're all enthusiastic. They've got a great pipeline, and they're running pretty hard. Guidance, that's the one everyone wants to talk about. So there we go. Guidance, you know, the way you should look at guidance there is, again, just consistent profitable growth. Again, I'll labor it a little bit, you know, that license sales which we've already made give us that financial leverage that we really want. So, in terms of the risks associated with our guidance, certainly on the, it's not like other companies, 'cause it's already been contracted, and it's non-cancelable. Now, you'll see that note, for most of the people on the call, I've included management incentives in the guidance this year. My position hasn't actually changed. So when you talk to me individually, you'll see that my position hasn't changed on it. You know, it's one of those things we don't know until right near the end of the year, whether those have been earned or not. And they're generally, you get them or you don't. So we've put them into the guidance this year, mainly so that I don't have to spend so much time talking about it when I talk to all the investors. So by not putting it in, I'd explain why I hadn't put it in, so I've spent a lot of time talking about that. So now it's in there, so I'm sure everyone's happy about that. And who knows? Maybe it's a, it's a nice little positive at the end of the year. Who knows? But it's in there. Everything else, as you can see, sort of just, again, consistent, profitable growth. Right, advisory. I'll just touch on advisory. A couple of things I wanna point out is how much the Americas how well they went last year. 30% growth in the Americas business. We've got a really good guy over there who's doing a fantastic job, actually. So that business has just gone from strength to strength. The other thing I'll point out in terms of the book of work is that ESG. So if you look back in the last presentation at H1, the ESG team had sold AUD 900,000 worth of engagements. They grew that by about 650% in the second half, ended up selling AUD 6.7 million. You know, that team's going really well. And you know, they're busy. ESG is, you know, people say it's gone off the boil. It sort of has, in terms of the headlines, but it's still a very important part of projects, mining projects and thought process within the miners. So, we're really happy with that part of the business. Just took a drink of water there. And, you know, again, we're. I we're. I won't labor it, but we're right at the front end of the batteries and critical minerals, and that type of thing. We're really working on all the really big jobs for the governments in that area. And, you know, we're going from strength to strength in the lender's engineering space, which is good news because those engagements tend to go over many, many years. So, you know, a lender's engineer might be over eight years, and, you know, every quarter you're going in and auditing the, I guess the funds that have been provided to people building mines and looking at that type of thing. Contribution margin's about 25% for that business, before management incentives. So, you know, they're really going well. And we've added some staff, hence, the reason we expect them to continue to grow this year. We'll go to slide eight, the software division. A couple of things to point out. For the eagle eye amongst you, we've pulled out Xecute from the operations. So ARR by suite, you'll see the Xecute in there. It was in operations, but we think that segment's gonna continue to grow quite quickly, so we thought we'd start to pull it out for you, so you can see that. Operations is obviously Shift Manager and Minvu, and some of those other products. Shift Manager, which is really clicking along quite nicely. The other thing worth probably pointing out, and you'll notice that we've put coal there, we probably should have put thermal coal, given that we've got met coal down the bottom. And then for a long time, people haven't wanted to talk about coal. And I certainly think when coal was in those big multinationals, that had to buy quite hard to get capital. And now that a lot of those businesses have been sold out, and they're now being owned by sort of new owners, there's a lot of investment in technology going into the coal companies. So they really wanna improve their performance. They are focused on ESG and emissions, and those types of things, and they're investing heavily in technology to try and improve their positions in that space. So, you know, we sold a lot of software to miners to help them improve their businesses going forward. Everything else is as you'd expect, if you wanna talk about consistent profitable growth, you know, there's a great definition of that on page 8. We talked about the highlights. The next two slides are obviously, from my perspective, the most interesting two in the deck. And I spoke about, you know, field of dreams and that type of thing. You know, we are very, very comfortable competing with our suite of products. We don't have any brand new products on the drawing board at all. We don't have anyone that we're looking at, in terms of acquiring. You know, we're very comfortable that our products can be run by the tier ones. I actually listened to the last presentation yesterday, just to try and remember what I said. I feel like Nostradamus when I look at it now. But, you know, I said, you know, we've still got a little way to go to actually finish the products, 'cause, you know, if you're a Tier 1 miner, and you wanna buy Xecute, you need to know that it's gonna work for all your mines around the world, and all the different environments, and that type of thing. So, you know, we're comfortable now that the Tier 1s who are, you know, purchasing AMT, Xecute, Shift Manager, and so forth, that meets, you know, their requirements. They can buy it and run their businesses. So, but it takes a long time to be able to expand a product so that you have, you know, all of the features and functions that they need. You know, when you're buying software, if you miss, if there's a big chunk that you haven't got, then, you know, you can't sell the software. So, so we're really happy with that. So we think in terms of our new product development as a percentage of total development, you know, that'll come back, and that'll be focused on these new modules that I was talking about before. So, you know, in some ways, you know, job done, I suppose you'd say. The Americas business, as I said earlier, we finished the rebuild of that. You know, they have a great pipeline. I put in the outlook slide, we expect them to have a good run this year. You know, their biggest challenge is managing all of the opportunities that they've got, because if you spread yourself too thin, bad things happen. I wanna just touch on the framework agreements, and I spoke about them on the last call, and I said, "Look, we've only got a few of them, but... And they take ages to put in place. But once you've got them, you know, there's some real good benefits for the customer's procurement team and benefits for us," and when we were putting this presentation together, I asked Iain Carter, "How much was actually sold under those few GFAs that we had last year?" As you'll see, the number there is 53%, which is a little higher than I expected. And what we've sort of learned about these global framework agreements is, they almost sort of go hand in hand with, you know, being a trusted provider. So you put a global framework agreement in, you know, you've dealt with all the procurement team, you've dealt with the finance team, you know, the legal team, all those types of things. But it seems as though, you know, once you've got that in place, as long as you keep doing what you say you're gonna do, you know, they're happy to expand or view you as a trusted supplier or a trusted provider. And, you know, your expansion within those accounts happen quite quickly. And that's what we're really seeing when you look at that number. We've just added three over the last 12 months. Two agreements were only just... We saw one yesterday and well, it was on Friday, and then we had another one last week as well. So two very large gold companies in the U.S. So we're still putting a lot of effort into those. You know, we're seeing you know, significant benefits from those. And we think that they do you know, really represent the relationships that we're building with the majors out there at the moment. So yeah, an interesting percentage, and one I guess we you know I know the legal team's pretty proud of it, because you know, it takes them often about a year to put these things in place. I spoke about battery cell government projects, and so forth. So that was a big year. A lot of real, really good strategic accomplishments achieved, all of which, we think have positioned us well for the year ahead. Talk about the outlook, when the slide catches up. Again, if we look at the three big products, well, the advisory guy is going great, and, you know, as long as there's no fundamental change in the industry, they'll have another good year. In terms of the big products, AMT, Xecute, and Shift Manager, as I said earlier, there's pilots for those products all over the place, at the moment. You know, AMT is becoming a staple. There's still a lot of, opportunities obviously out there for us.... And, you know, we're just sort of slowly, you know, rolling through the industry in relation to that. Xecute, it's being trialed by some of the biggest miners in the world. A lot of Xecute licenses in the Tier 2, so, you know, if we can break into those Tier 1s, we've got two Tier 1s that, well, one's using the products in anger, and the other one's trialing it. But that product is replacing internal systems, and there's nothing else out there like it, and when people see it, you know, they wanna buy it. So, you know, that'll have a really big year this year, for sure. And Shift Manager, you know, that's again sort of replacing internal systems. We have one small competitor out there. Not sure where they're going at the moment, but, you know, we won a really good deal last week in the underground space. I talk a little bit about surface miners. You know, we feel like we're the solution provider of choice for the surface miners. Happy to compete against anyone in the surface space, certainly against internal systems as well. We've had a weakness, I guess you'd say, in the underground space. There's obviously a lot more surface miners than there are underground miners, but certainly AMT's been making some inroads into that market for a period of time, and Shift Manager is starting to do that as well. So, you know, we're feeling, you know, a lot better about, you know, how we're sort of moving into the underground space. With a lot of stock, as you can see, the capital management strategy, as I said earlier, won't change while we don't have banking credits. But everything's. You know, we're really in a better position this year than we were last year. Pipelines are looking good. That it's lovely to start winning the Indonesian market back. We probably lost that market 12-15 years ago, certainly in the mine planning space, but yeah, both mine planning, AMT, execution, we had a big conference up there last week. There'll be team up there and we sat there just watching our customers talk about their experiences to other mining companies. So, you know, we didn't have to do a lot of selling. Our customers are doing the selling out there, and they're really seeing the value of it. And Indonesia is a big mining province. So, you know, there's lots of things to look forward to this year. I think it's gonna be a good one, but I'll finish up there and see if there is any questions. Which is, there's some questions being loaded at the moment, but while we just give some people some time to add some more, we've got a nice opening one here, which is pretty topical, in the market, which is: Does RPM use artificial intelligence in its software or within its business more broadly? Yeah, certainly AI. Yeah, there's lots of chat about AI out there. Everyone's AI everything these days. We have built a small data science team within the R&D organization. So while we're not looking at bringing out brand new AI products, what we're looking at is using AI technology inside our products. So, and we're working with our customers on it. What we're trying to do is say, "Okay, where do you think you can get the most value from AI?" You know, one of the things about miners is they have a lot of data, a heap of data, right? And what they realize is that the accuracy of that data is the most important thing. And our systems, you know, do force. You know, to get good results, it sort of forces you to have good data. You know, too, you tidy up and filter things as you put them together. So that's really where we're sort of focusing our attention on is, you know, on the existing products and how we're gonna use AI. You know, customers like them. You know, one of the, you know, I guess, the issues with AI is that when you're using people's tools, how do you know that it's not ending up in the public? So we're very careful about the way we vet the AI tools that we use. You know, we're very conscious of confidentiality, and we don't wanna expose our data or the customer's data in relation to AI. So we wanna keep it inside the RPM network, so we're very, very careful about the type of tools that we actually use. Yeah, AI is important, we think. It's important to our customers, but it's important using it inside our tools. I guess you won't see us coming out with any great new AI products for our customers on that. Thanks. There's a key question there. I see a question here talking about R&D with the client funnel. I think I spoke about that. You would expect more of our development costs to be R&D funded. And again, you know, we're not trying to turn the whole development team into a revenue line, but, you know, the customers have made it quite clear to us that they're prepared to pay for, you know, functionality that we can work with them and build on, which replaces other systems and other costs which they have in their business. So, you know, they really wanna expand our footprint inside their accounts, and we'd be pretty crazy not to. One of the things I've said on more than one occasion is, you know, the miners are, for them, it's about growing the industry, you know. They'll, a miner will do a reference site for another miner, you know, could even be in the same area. You know, they don't see themselves as competitors. They see themselves as, you know, trying to do the right thing for the industry and the world at large. So you know that if you're building a module for one miner, you've probably got... You know, the other miners are gonna be able to use it as well. So we've got a question here about big mining companies in terms of, are there any realistic alternatives to RPM software solutions for the Tier One miners? Yeah, I guess typically, I don't wanna speak on behalf of all of the miners, but there's a lot of Excels, a lot of spreadsheets inside mining. You know, it's really been built for a long period of time now on individual people building applications and data sets and so forth. So, you know, and I've said this on more than one occasion, most of our products generally are replacing internal systems. So if you think about Xeras, that's definitely an Excel replacement. AMT's replacing, you know, database as an Excel. Xecute's replacing a meeting, and Shift Manager is replacing whiteboards and walkie-talkies and those types of things. So, you know, there's no one out there... One of the things that, and I've said this on more than one occasion, we started building enterprise products right from day one, and then pushing them into the cloud, and really, no one really followed us. We're the only public listed software technology company that's come from the 2010s, 2012s. And, you know, all the desktop guys got bought up by the OEMs or other parties. So really, you never wanna say you don't have any competition at all. But, you know, where we have competition, it's really in the mine planning space, where there's a lot of historical customers there. Oh, someone's asking me, do I consider not giving guidance? Absolutely. And, after we got absolutely punished effectively for, you know, an AUD 1 million miss on a perpetual license line, you know? So yeah, I did debate that, not giving guidance. But in, at the end of the day, we've given it in the past, so I felt it was, you know, sensible we give it again. But yeah, no, yeah, I definitely thought about it. Since how, okay, have you given context to how management incentives are earned? I keep telling people about that. So management incentives are earned based on all of the line metrics on the PNL, including TCV sales. So, you know, what we've gotta do is sell. So last year, I think if you look at the numbers, we sold AUD 77 million worth of software. So that's about AUD 315,000 a working day. So essentially one middle-sized software license deal a day, you have to do. You know, AUD 315,000 a day. You can guarantee next year's number is bigger than that. All right? That's why you just don't know until the end of the year whether you're gonna get there or not. It's pretty straightforward. You know, if you look at that, the way you should look at management incentives last year is that AUD 28.8 million of extra license revenue, which went into the backlog number. We've got a question here around guidance in terms of medium to long term. So in terms of guidance on EBITDA margins, this particular user suggested it was 15.9% last year, but as the R&D expenditure potentially tapers off and the business achieves further growth, it would suggest EBITDA margins would increase longer term. Is that, is that a correct assumption? Yeah, you sort of got it, really, because, you know, as long as you're selling TCV and you're putting more software into that backlog, then stability is there. Now we run. We don't need a whole lot more product people in terms of product management. We don't need a whole lot more customer success people. Don't need a whole lot more reps. You just up the reps' targets each year, that's how you get there. And R&D will come down, right? Unless we have some huge, big strategic change and we decide we wanna build something new, don't know what it would be, right? So, naturally, it should come down, because, you know, revenue's growing at higher than costs. You notice the last couple of years it's been a little bit different because of the salary increases. You know, a couple of years ago, there was a whole war on talent, and that war on talent meant that we had to take it to the end of 2022, really increase salaries to keep our people. We still have a very, very low attrition rate, about 4%. I think the development team last year was 3.1%, which is very low, maybe too low, you know, because you're obviously always wanting to bring new people in with new skills and so forth. But those days are over. You know, I think everyone, the salaries across the whole, you know, certainly across, I guess, the world, sort of dropped back to normal sort of numbers. Really, we've got two businesses that are controlled for the business models are, time and materials type engagements. So as you increase consultants, that number goes up, but then that's just a function of margin. So yes, the margins should continue to go up as long as we keep selling more and more, TCV. I've got a question here, that the user apologizes if you've already covered it, but they've just sort of said, "Is there a particular reason why dividends are not paid? Oh, yeah, yeah. We haven't got any franking credits. So I think it's about AUD 41 million of tax losses that we've still got. So, you know, you look at that, it's probably, you know, two, three, four, maybe three years away from starting to generate franking credits. So, you know, and even then, once we start producing those, we at that stage still may decide that we don't want to pay dividends. You know, I know the retail guys like dividends, the instos don't like dividends, so we may, you know, continue to buy back shares. But that'll be something for another day. Yeah. There's one question here which, you know, can't. I'm not gonna answer it for competitive reasons and other reasons. So sorry about that, whoever asked that question. You'll know when it doesn't get answered. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. A bit more information on the pilots. Yeah, okay, fair enough. So if you look at an AMT pilot, AMT is huge, right? So, you know, we did an AUD 24 million deal, AMT deal last year. All right, so just to put it into perspective, so it's a big piece of software. And, you know, it was over. Some of that deal was over five years, some of it was 10 years. So, you know, we sold 10 years' worth of software to one of the biggest mines in the world. So, you know, one of the things that we've seen with the Tier 1s, particularly, is they want consistency of supply. You know, they don't want us to take these products and then end-of-life them after three or four years. So they're now talking to us about, you know, 10-year contracts, seven-year contracts, which we think is a good thing. But if you, if you wanna live in the ARR world, that's probably not a good thing, right? You're probably on the other side of that. But we think that's, it's a really good thing. So an AMT pilot, you know, depending upon how much effort they put in, a customer puts in, and depending upon what size of mine. You know, some of the guys say, "We're gonna put it into our biggest mine, because that will prove that it works for all mines," and some customers go, "We'll just put into small mines, and we're gonna roll it out on a mine-by-mine basis," so but an AMT pilot, you're not gonna get away from under six-to-nine months for a decent one, because there's a lot of data that you've got to capture. Xecute's a little bit different. Xecute, it's pretty easy to understand. It's pretty intuitive. But what Xecute really is, it's very much a change of business. You know, Xecute's about replacing really a planning meeting, production planning meeting at the start of the day, so pretty much every mine has a production meeting. You've got your surveyors there, you've got your geologists there, you've got your mining guys there, you've got your maintenance guys there, you've got your HR and all those sort of people staff there. And they have a meeting each morning, and it's generally on a whiteboard or a spreadsheet or some sort of graph paper, something like that. So what Xecute is, and I think I've touched on this in the presentation, it's very much about a graphical representation and a spatial world of the mine, and being able to see how people are gonna mine. You know, where your bases are, where your tips are, you know, where you're gonna be working. And it's multi-user, so you can see lots of different areas of the mine. So it's a really good communication tool. So, you know, again, if you're doing that on a small mine, you can, you know, knock those out in three months. But one of the big tier ones doing a three-month Xecute trial, and the other big tier ones gonna take six months to do it. So, take a bit longer. Yeah, I've got with some customers here on this, but I'm not gonna talk about those. One of the things I swore I'd stop doing last year, was talking about the great big deals, 'cause whenever I mention shareholders, it's the only ones that they wanna talk about. But, you know, we've got plenty of opportunities out there in the market at the moment. Anything else, [Lemak]? No, I think that's a lot of questions that have already been answered during the actual presentation itself. We've covered off on all the questions that we've received. Okay. Well, maybe I can just a little bit of a wrap-up. So, if there's one thing a few things I'd like to take away from this from our time together this morning is consistent, profitable growth. You know, that's what we're all about, consistent, profitable growth. You know, we'll show it, we'll continue to show it. I want you to remember about the software license backlog and the security that gives you as investors. You know, you should be thinking that that's just money in the bank, which will just flow through the business. The other, probably the other key takeaway is those global framework agreements. You know, as you become a trusted advisor, or a trusted provider, or a trusted supplier to a very, very large organization, good things happen. Of course, you've got to, you know, make sure you do a great job, make every post a winner, and all those other good things. But we've certainly got ourselves in a position where we are a trusted provider to, you know, at least one, two, three, four of the five Globals. And we've still got a lot of work to do, and there's lots of opportunities there for us. Yeah, we're working really hard on your behalf to do a good job there. So our capital management couldn't have been any clearer about that. Make money, buy shares. Make money, buy shares. And you know, from a financial perspective, we think that's a pretty good way to spend our money. Okay. Thank you very much for your time, everyone. We... I'll probably catch up with a few of you between now and the next time we have one of these, and I look forward to seeing you. Thanks again, everyone. Have a good day.