I am here at Wilson Asset Management. Today, I am joined by Chairman Geoff Wilson and Lead Portfolio Manager of WAM Strategic Value, as well as Investment Specialist Martyn McCathie. Today, we will run through the portfolio. We will give an update on the FY 2026 full-year results and dividends, and then the team will talk a bit about the CGT changes and how that has impacted the sector. We will then move to a section of Q&A questions, so please do send through your questions and we will be happy to answer them. Unfortunately, Jesse is not with us today. He is unable to join, and he sends his apologies. Before we start, there will be a disclaimer displayed on the screen just to let you know that everything discussed today is general in nature and is not financial advice. I will now pass over to Geoff. Thank you very much, Tomasina. We normally call you Tommy. Yes. We like that. Thank you, Tomasina. Jesse is in the U.K., so unfortunately, he could call in, but we thought it would be easier if we just do it here in person. Again, everyone who is on the webinar, thank you very much. You know this is your company, and we do these on a six-monthly basis or more regularly if we need to. I remember during COVID, we were doing them quite regularly. It is because to keep you fully informed. In terms of the, we are talking about the result for the year to June last, and if you look at the result, the actual performance of the portfolio was a little under 10%. The market did 6% and a bit, and so that was a reasonable result, particularly risk-adjusted. When we had quite a decent amount of our investable funds in cash, so our equity return was actually better than that. The board, when it sat down to look at what profit reserve we have got and what franking we have got, decided to continue to slightly increase that dividend. You will see the dividends yielding a little over, or sorry, nearly 6%, fully franked, or on a, if you do not pay tax, if you have it in your super fund, it is a little over 8% on a fully franked basis, so that is paying AUD 0.065. What else have we got? We will look through the individual dividends. The next chart is just the dividend performance of the dividends over time. Our plan will be to gently increase the dividend. You noticed, a couple of years back, we had a special dividend. That was when we had a particularly strong year. That is, again, going forward, I think the board is very focused on rewarding shareholders. If the performance is similarly greater than the market or is a very solid increase, then the board again would look favorably at potentially having a special dividend. In terms of where the company is, as in the share price versus the NTA of the company, one of our shareholders asked us and probably actually it was quite early. It was. It was the first couple of months, yeah. Yeah. They said, "Look, we understand you are buying assets at a discount. Can you actually value all those assets at NTA to show us a look-through NTA?" Since then, and again, any other ideas or feedback, shareholders, you have, please send them in. But since, because it is your company, since then we have been putting our current NTA, which is a reflection of the share price of those companies, but also we are doing the look-through NTA. You have got to be aware that we are nearly sitting on 30% cash, so we value that cash at cash. Then any other company that we own, the look-through NTA is actually not the share price, it is actually the pre-tax assets of that. If you look at the current look-through NTA at the end of July, it was at AUD 1.43. The stated NTA was at AUD 1.26. You will see the share price was trading at, about a month or so ago, a little over a 14% discount. It has now come into a 10% discount. Of the nine LICs that we manage, WAM LICs, seven of them are trading at premiums and premiums between just small premiums and I think the largest premium, what is it? Is it- 30% 30-odd%, or even, yeah, 30 odd% premium NTA. Two of WAM Alternative Assets is trading at a discount and also WAM Strategic Value is trading at a discount. We anticipate that discount over time will dissipate, because the true value is that NTA at AUD 1.26. You could nearly argue that the real value is between that AUD 1.26 and the AUD 1.43. We are very happy that people are looking at that as a buying opportunity because you are buying a dollar of assets, at least at AUD 0.90, if not slightly lower than that. Why do I pass over to you, Martyn? You just go through the. Yeah, of course. Performance numbers. Yeah. Just on the last slide, for anybody looking through the slides, we did have there the yield that we received, so the flow-through yield on the investment portfolio. We highlighted that at the last webinar. We will continue to highlight that. Obviously, we publish the profit reserve to give investors a bit of comfort around dividend sustainability, and we are sitting about three years covered in the dividend at the moment. The current yield of grossed up, what did we say it was? Over 8% grossed up. Very sustainable. What should give shareholders comfort further on the sustainability there is the look-through yield of 7.7 cents. That means our dividend is covered broadly, 90% covered from the flow-through yield that we get, which again, hopefully gives a bit of comfort in the sustainability of our. Yeah, that is pretty encouraging when you think, we are nearly 30% cash. Exactly, yeah. If we are on a fully invested basis. Yeah Obviously, we are looking for higher yielding LICs at the moment. We have got a portfolio of higher yielding LICs, which is flowing through. If we jump onto the next performance slide, what we wanted to showcase here, I guess first and foremost, probably acknowledge FY 2022 when the company launched. Despite a really strong initial period, couple of takeovers in TGG and then the Magellan High Conviction, it was a tougher period for markets. Equity markets, especially small, mid-caps and global equities, declined through FY 2022 with the war in Russia-Ukraine, and we were not immune. We did draw down through that period as well. I guess what has pleased us over the last four years is how consistent our performance has been, and being able to deliver positive absolute returns in a risk-adjusted manner. If we look at FY 2026, as Geoff said, 9.5% investment portfolio performance, outperforming the All Ords domestically by almost 4%. I would highlight how that was derived in risk on and risk on markets. Months where the market went up, we performed in line with the market. To give you one beta on the market, so 100% upside capture ratio. In the three occasions where the market fell, we fell by about half of the market. We did an exceptional job there in protecting shareholder capital through periods of volatility. Obviously, our entry point and our investments at a discount provides a little bit of buffer for investors, which is what we like. If we jump onto the next slide, the investment portfolio positioning at the end of July. As Geoff said, we are sitting on close to 30% cash at the moment. I think it's not a function of there not being investment opportunities out there. It's just us being disciplined with capital, given where we are in the cycle, and markets hitting all-time highs. We're just being exceptionally disciplined in allocating investor capital. The other big standout there for me is obviously 51.3% exposure to global equities. That has been decreasing. Obviously, global markets have performed well. Global LICs and LITs have been a large driver of alpha for us over the last couple of years, as we were able, through that 2022, 2023 period, deploy capital at 20%-22%, 25% discounts. A lot of those end companies now, the discounts have narrowed materially and some trading around the NTA parity, if not a small premium. We're currently actively recycling that capital out. You should see that global exposure continue to decline, and either cash or other investments increase. Flicking on, just wanted to kind of hopefully bring to light how active we are in the investment portfolio. It is difficult at times looking at the monthly NTAs, the top 10, top 20, maybe don't change too frequently, but we are constantly trading. Up on screen here, we've got a couple of examples, and this isn't a holistic list. A couple of examples of positions that were in our portfolio at 30 June 2025, and weren't there at 30 June 2026. The largest, and an example we touched on in the last webinar, was probably Perpetual Equity Investment Company, PEIC. It was about 8% of our portfolio in June of last year. Completely exited this year, and we've been in and out of the position 4x since inception of the investment strategy for WAM Strategic Value. I noticed they announced either yesterday or today that they're moving to monthly dividends. Yeah. Yeah, yesterday. Yeah, monthly dividend. But they're only about a 2.5% discount. Discount I think, at the moment. Yeah. If they were 10%-15%, we'd probably be buying. It'd be a nice catalyst for the discount to close, hopefully. But monthly income, maybe we won't get in a fifth time. Who knows? But we'll- Well, that's right. Yeah. Keep it on the radar. Then if we go to new positions, again, just highlighting new positions that we have brought into the portfolio. I am sure a couple of them will come up in the Q&A. But positions that we have added over the last 12 months and continue to build. So BTI, Bailador, is probably the biggest of the three at the moment. We were able to pick up a parcel of stock at a 25%-30% discount to NTA. It was one of our best performers through the month of July with the share price up almost 12%, and one of the stocks that we covered in our NTA. But a terrible performer a few months before that. Yeah, well, this is the one month. Let's not focus on that. Then just to bring it to life, hopefully, a position of an example of an actively traded position. So this is the share price discount to NTA for the WCM Global Growth Fund, WQG. We took a position back in late 2024 at about an 18% discount to NTA, so the far left column of the graph. We added to the position when they did a capital raiser earlier this year, and where the company is trading at the moment, round about NTA parity, we are trimming the position at the moment as well. Again, for us, for investors, this has been a great investment. The ability to pick it up at an 18% discount, their performance has been solid. When you compound that with the discount narrowing, a really strong performer for us and I guess, in hindsight, we would have loved to have had more of it. Yeah. Do you have to pass back to. Yeah, I don't Top 10 holdings? Yeah, I think we'll continue on from there. Yep. They're the holdings. If we can keep going with the slides. The next slide that'll be on your screen, it says, "A golden decade for LICs." You might say, "Look, where did that all come. Why are you saying that?" I probably, if we flip to the next slide, this is why. The federal budget that there was, what is it? 89 days ago, or maybe it's 90 days ago, which effectively removed negative gearing, increased the tax on housing, on capital gains tax, therefore the demand for housing's declined. Also, they increased the capital gains tax on all assets, so on businesses. Effectively, you'll find that there'll be less businesses in Australia, which we think is very negative in terms of for productivity in Australia. The perverse thing, and we've been very publicly fighting against that, we think they should carve out all Australian businesses from the increase in capital gains tax that has been legislated from this budget, because it's negative for Australian business, negative for employment, negative for growth for Australians, negative for tax for Australians, negative for young Australians, aspirational Australians, or ambitious Australians trying to create their own business or to get jobs and find opportunities. Obviously, it's been positive from a housing perspective because it's reduced demand, and the house prices, well, if you're looking to buy a house, the house prices have come down. The reason I say it's a golden decade, or it's the start of a golden decade, pretty much since the night of the budget, for listed investment companies is, there's two factors. The first factor is that the 7.7 million Australians that own shares outside their super, and the way the new tax comes in, it's actually negative for any shareholders that own a portfolio of shares. I'll take you through that in a minute. The other part is, because the capital gains tax has increased, now it actually is In the old days, what you wanted as an investor is you wanted probably 10% growth per annum. How did you want to get that 10% growth? You want it as capital, because capital was taxed less than income. Now you only pay tax on real capital gains, so if, say, inflation's 3%, in the old days if you made 10% before this new legislation, then you wanted that 10% to be a 10% capital gain. Going forward, you actually want that 10% to be a 3% capital gain and the other 7%, and therefore you'll pay no tax because that's all inflation is, and the other 7% you want as a fully franked dividend. There's been enormous interest in listed investment companies. In terms of the listed investment company sector, over the last month, and probably looking forward to the next two or three weeks, there'll be over AUD 1 billion that'll be raised in the listed investment company sector. We've had investors knocking on our doors looking for yield. We raised AUD 171 million with WAM Income Maximiser. That's Wilson Asset Management. Just raised, earlier this week, we went out to raise AUD 200 million for WAM Leaders, which is another high-yielding product. The demand was so high that we had to upscale the placement to 225. There is an SPP, so we will probably raise another AUD 150 million -AUD 200 million there. There is, who is it? PM Capital? Yep. Well, I know there was an announcement this morning, so we probably cannot go into much detail, but it looks like something is happening there. That will become clear in the next day or two. Yep, placement and an SPP. Yeah, well- Would there have been announcements? Oh, they announced that, did they? Oh, I just got up on that announcement. No, no, it came out. I am not giving away any secrets. Yeah. The listed investment company space is all of a sudden in favor again. Yeah, because you do not want a portfolio of individual shares. You actually want a commingled product, whether it is an ETF, or a listed investment company, or a managed fund, to have your portfolio in there of your shares, because any real losses can get offset against real gains. Even though you might have absolute losses, you could have real losses, which you cannot offset real losses. That is the new legislation. It is very sad, I think, for retail investors in terms of what we are hoping, and we are working as hard as we can to try to encourage the government to carve out Australian businesses. Put the Australian business back to where they were in terms of how the tax was paid. The interesting thing is what this change is incredibly positive for listed investment companies. I think that's pretty much, I think we've covered most of the things. If we flip through those slides, on the presentation, there's a couple of slides there that you'll see on the ASX announcement. Can we go back there to the slide? That shows you the dilemma in terms of how you can't offset your real gains. Then if you flip to the next slide, it just shows you what effectively the marginal tax rate with the new system has gone up significantly in terms of for capital. That's pretty much it from a presentation perspective. Why don't we open up for questions now, Tommy? Absolutely. Thanks for that, Geoff and Martyn. We have had quite a few questions through, so thank you very much for that. We will start with Robert, who has asked, "What are your thoughts on ECP Emerging Growth?" Which has the ticker ECP. "It has such a small market cap and is so illiquid that it doesn't seem to be making sense being listed. Is it time for someone to take it over? Well, I declare my interest, my super fund is a shareholder. Only because it's so small. Yeah, I think it was a bit too small for us. Yeah, way too small for us. Yeah. The market cap's only AUD 13 million. Yep. From a takeover perspective, I think ECP or EC Pohl owns 30% of the register. Yeah, it's pretty tight. I think it's a tightly held register, so I think anybody that wanted to do if there was going to be some corporate activity there, I think it would have to be management-led. Yeah. Probably not external-led, but a nice discount. Yeah, good discount. Yeah, if you are a shareholder, then you just got to keep communicating with management and encouraging to close the gap. Great. We have had quite a few questions about PIA, from Simon, Ross, and Greg. Will you be discussing Pengana International Equities as it is one of WAM Strategic Value's portfolio holdings? Yeah, well, I am a Director, so I know it will be quite strange for investors. The manager is suing the company and the directors. That is Pengana Capital, which is a listed company. As it is in court at the moment, we cannot really say anything. I think if you look at the newspaper articles, there was a quote from David Kingston there, who is an independent observer about what is going on, and he had a strong view, which he was quoted in the newspaper. Even though David and I have had our sort of, had our riffs- Differences Differences. Yeah. I think how he articulated it this time was correct. Yeah. I guess from a shareholder perspective, the board has held a shareholder vote. They have announced an intention to conduct a buyback, and until we hear otherwise, we will wait to hear from the board on that. Yeah, shareholders decided unanimously to get rid of the last board at the AGM a year ago. Yeah. There was strong support. If you removed Pengana, the manager, and Soul Pattinson, which is the main shareholder of PCG, the manager. If you took those two votes out, the majority of shareholders, I think it could have been 98% versus 2% in terms of voting with the board. Great. We have had a few questions about the discount from Craig, Neil, and Kevin. They have asked that, "WAM Strategic Value is continuing to trade at a discount to its pre and post-tax NTA. What is being done to close the discount? Why does not WAM Strategic Value buy back the shares on market when this is the case? Under what conditions will its share price improve? Yeah. It was from a couple of people. There is a few, yeah. Yeah. Well, please, if you look at any of our other LICs, at various points in time, they can trade at discounts. How do you close a discount? Effectively, it is very labor-intensive. It is really first-year economics, supply-demand. Luckily, as someone jokingly said, I actually did do first-year economics, and they said the Treasurer of Australia, he actually did not do first-year economics. In theory, you have to perform, you have to have a growing stream of fully franked dividends, and also you have to have a shareholder engagement and communication strategy. If you went back six months ago or nine months ago, would half of our LICs were trading at discounts, would you say? Yep. If not more. Yep. Maybe 12 months ago. Over time, those discounts have closed. Now there are two of them at discounts. The discount on WAM Strategic Value has come in from a 14% discount to a 10% discount. I would assume the discount would continue to narrow, and eventually, again, it is supply-demand. Now, we could put enormous amount of resources behind communicating and marketing WAM Strategic Value, and we could have it to trade at a premium in a reasonably short period of time. What value does that have for shareholders, for people that are doing research? In theory, it is really not in our interest to have all our LICs trade at premiums. Because then when someone says, "What do you buy? Now we say, "Look, buy the ones trading at a discount. Yeah. We will get there. It has been a long time, a long road. As Martyn said, when WAM Strategic Value listed, two of our holdings were bid for in a very short period of time or decided to give the money back, so everyone thought that was going to happen on a monthly basis. The fact is, we are buying medium, long-term positions, and we are holding them. You saw the chart for WCM Global Growth, how long did that take? Over what period, was that a three or four. It was late 2024 we got it up. Okay. So that was a two-year. Two and a half year. Yeah, two and a half year period. So, for those discounts to narrow, it does take time. If they do not narrow naturally, then we try to encourage, try to help the company to narrow those discounts. Yeah. I think there, just adding to that, Geoff, I think on the discount we do have a really good story at the moment. Obviously, performance has been strong. If we're going into a market now where we've got a view that markets kind of plod on from here for a little bit, we should be able to do a lot better than that. We've got a good story, we've got a good yield, we've got a good profit reserve, so sustainable, and there's obviously that demand for income. I think, we will mobilize our engine room, that comms, marketing, and engagement. Yeah, but we're not putting our foot to the floor. No. Because we Yeah. We'll get there. Yeah. We are confident we will get there because we have a good story at the moment. The other part of the question there was, I guess, do you do a buyback? This obviously, we have talked about this at length, Geoff. Yeah The merits of buybacks. I dusted off the old Morgan Stanley research. Oh, did you? From 2021 earlier this morning, had a read of it again. Effectively, the analysis we have done internally, buybacks don't work. Fundamentally, you are not changing that supply-demand imbalance, you are not changing investor sentiment, you are just taking supply out of the market. Probably the best example of that is the Regal products, RF1, RG8. Their buybacks have been incredibly aggressive. How much would have they bought back? Last year was close to 20%, 25% of the company. Yeah. That is probably the third year of that size. So really aggressive buybacks. Only now is kind of RF1 getting close to NTA parity. What is on that at? But it's on the back of about five now. Oh, so down to five. Okay. But it's on the back of a year where they've done 52% performance. Yeah. Yeah. The driver is performance, communicating your performance. Yield. There's probably potential for some capital management yield. Yeah. I would suspect or hope. That's kind of the drivers for the buyback. Yeah. The interesting thing is, the numbers make sense for a buyback. If you bought back, you can buy back 10% of the company each time you announce your buyback. If you bought 10% back at a 10% discount, then the NTA will increase 1% and you've done nothing. The fact is, if I got a group of you in a room, I got 1,000 investors that invest in listed investment companies, and I ask you to put your hand up, who likes buybacks? Probably 10% would put their hand up, and the other 90% would put their hand up and say they don't. Because as Martyn said, the message it's giving to the broader population is, if I'm trading at a 10% discount and we're going to do a buyback, then all we think we can make with our investments in other entities is 10%, even though that shouldn't be the logic. That's the logic. Buybacks work for operating businesses, but unfortunately they don't work for listed investment companies. Absolutely. Also, just from talking to shareholders, they echo that completely. They deem it to be that you're void of investment opportunities elsewhere. Yeah. And so- We've got a couple of good ones that we're nibbling at the moment. That 30% cash is actually less now. It is very much less. Yes. Fantastic. Well, not very much less, but just 5% less. Yep. Yeah. It is a big movement. Yeah, I suppose it is, as we haven't done anything for a while. Yeah. But no, and we'll tell you the next webinar what we bought. Just know we're still buying them. It'll be the August NTA that we release mid-September. Oh, okay. Then they'll see. Yeah. Okay. Great. So Brendan has asked, "Is there a fair and reasonable way out of WAM Strategic Value at NAV or thereabout? Other WAM investments are delivering strong growth while WAM Strategic Value continues to languish well below NAV." It's echoing. Yeah. I would take point in terms of giving you strong growth, because now the fact is, we are trading at a discount to NAV. And we would have been at a bigger discount 12 months ago, I would have thought. Yep. Yeah. So actually, the discount is narrowed, plus the underlying performance. And you have got to remember that performance is pre-tax, so we have paid 30% tax on that. And we paid out the dividends. So, your net performance of the share price might not have been much. Yeah. And I think June to June, the discount did not move much. Obviously, it is narrowed in the last six weeks. Total shareholder return FY 2026 was 8.6%. Okay. Slightly below the investment portfolio return. Yeah. But still Better than the market. 3% better than market. Yeah. Six and a half. Yeah. What was the other part of his question? Is there a way to exit? Oh, is there a way to exit? Is there a way, yeah. The way to exit is sell on market. Yeah, and so therefore you are selling them at a 10% discount. Or you can hold them and then wait till you believe that they will. If you think, A, the underlying shares will perform, and the discount will narrow. And then eventually, I would say WAM Strategic Value will trade at a premium to NTA. Yeah. A couple of shareholders have asked about moving to quarterly dividends. They have said that lots of other LICs are moving to quarterly dividends, including BKI Investment Company and Argo Investments. Yeah. Would WAM Strategic Value consider doing the same thing? Yeah, well, the board could easily consider that. Of course, I cannot talk for the board, but I can talk for myself. I actually see no value in quarterly dividends. I know shareholders are getting the money more regularly. My view is you either go monthly dividends or you stay six-monthly. I think quarterly is a halfway house that sort of is no man's land. In the U.K., 50% of closed-end funds are quarterly dividends. In Australia, a number of them, you are talking about a couple that recently have gone to quarterly dividends. A number of them a while back went to quarterly dividends, and really it does not help the discount to NTA. Now, off the top of my head, QV Equities tried it, and then [uncertain]. Yeah Sandon tried it, and then they've moved to monthly. They've gone to monthly. Yeah. And then- I think you either go to monthly or. Spheria, I think, went quarterly and then have gone monthly. Gone monthly. Yeah. Yeah, so it kind of backs that up, that anyone that's tried the quarterly lever, it hasn't seemed to work. Ross has asked, "What is the point in having a portion of the assets designated as a profits reserve? Surely any payment of dividends is at the discretion of the directors, whatever the level of the profits reserve may be. It is at the discretion of the directors, but if we have no profit, and that's either retained earnings or in a profit reserve, then we can't pay a dividend. Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say that the profit reserve is an accounting methodology only. Yeah. That capital can be invested and was. Yeah, it is invested. Yeah We don't put that capital over here. Yeah. That's part of our portfolio that we're managing. Yeah. So yeah, profit reserve is an accounting methodology only. It helps us pay fully frank point to profit. Yeah To pay fully frank dividends. Your capital's still working for you as it would under the mandate. James has asked, "Does the franking account balance have levels that will sustain 100% franked dividends into the future, that is, the balance is not reducing? No, the balance would reduce when we pay it out. Then again, it is topped up by the dividends we receive. Yeah, which is 90% covered. Yeah, and any of the tax we pay. Yeah, for profits. Yeah. There tends to be a lag between the capital gain, if we have a capital gain, because the profit reserve will increase by the amount the portfolio goes up by over a 12-month period. There might be a lag between the profit reserve going up and the profit being made, and therefore the tax being paid. So, yeah, there can be a bit of a lag there. Sometimes you might, how much franking have we got up our sleeve? That is a great question. Yeah. I should know that one, shouldn't I? No, I just haven't- I think I'll find out and get back to you on that. Yeah, we'll tell you in a minute. WQG is a good example of that, right? We bought it at AUD 1.54. It's now trading at AUD 2.05, AUD 2.07. Yes. We have added to the profit reserve through that period, so our profit reserve has been bolstered. Yeah Because we have not realized the profit, we have not sold yet, we have not paid the tax. Yeah That is kind of real-time delineation between generating the profit reserve and generating the franking to match the profit. Yeah. The franking tends to lag the profit. Yeah. We tend to manage the, Tommy's looking for the number. Our boards, from our discussions with boards, tend to want 12 to 18 months' worth of franking. Yeah. What you don't want- It's possible. Yeah. We don't always get there. No Because there could be a big lag. Therefore, you can't. The tax office encourages us. No, it doesn't encourage us, but is very happy. There's some instances where you can realize profit early. Yeah. I guess the. Which gives you franking. The other side of running it as that 12-18 months is having too much franking on the balance sheet. Yeah. I guess that is investor capital that is being paid out and not distributed to investors. Yeah. So trying to avoid that and optimize tax at all points of the cycle for investors. Yeah. Fantastic. I have just got the franking balance here now, and it is AUD 0.1529 per share. Now, that is that. It's quite a healthy balance Yeah, but that could be assuming that our portfolio's sold. Yeah. Yeah, that's in the accounts. That may be assuming that whatever we've got, I'm not sure if that's on a realized basis or not. Right. Anyway, the bottom line is that if we did sell a whole portfolio, then that would be there, or that may not be. It may be more than that. But we've got enough franking to continue to fully frank dividends. Great. That is the AUD 0.153 per share is including the June 30 tax that we are paying. Oh, okay. Yeah. Another question we have here is from Barry. Have you been selling down WGB as it has been trading at a slight premium to its NTA? Am I allowed? I am not allowed to. No, you are not. I am not allowed to. I am not allowed to. No. So yeah, it is for investors. You are not on the board of WGB. Yeah. It's a question for Martyn. Well, it's the independent board committee of WAM Strategic Value who are managing the position independently of Geoff and Wilson Asset Management, and we're helping facilitate transactions. We have been selling. We have sold slightly over about one third, we're about 40% of our holding. Yeah. The weights were on the portfolio earlier. On a weight basis, it has come down, and it was about 18% of our portfolio. It's at about 9.5% now. We've received some income over the last six months, and we've been distributing, recycling that capital. We're taking our time, we're being patient. With all our investments, liquidity is an important driver, but we are actively trading that one and continue to reduce the position there, which is nice. Craig has asked- Well, it's nice because it was trading at one stage, what, a 20% discount? Yep. We've sort of waited for that to- Yeah, it's good. reduce. Craig has asked, "Do you own any shares in Global Masters Fund, which has the ticker GFL? If so, have you thought about unlocking the value in this LIC, which trades at a big discount to pre- and post-tax NTA, around half of which is Berkshire Hathaway? If you do own shares, please can you discuss this further? In your super fund again? No, no. I don't even know. Unfortunately, it's just one that's When you look at these positions, it's important if you can see a catalyst that's going to reduce that discount. If you look at the share ownership of Global Masters, that's in- In ECP again. Yeah, in ECP. 46%. Is it? Yeah, it's- Yeah. Unless the major shareholder wants to unlock the value, Yeah The value doesn't get unlocked. Yeah. Again, the market, It depends how young you are. If you're really young, I'd buy it, because if you can outlive these people, eventually, it'll get resolved. Unfortunately. I'll put a massive put there. No, yeah. Unfortunately, yeah, Manny and myself, and then, yeah, Jared. Jared's younger than me, so he could outlive me. To me, we can't see a catalyst that's going to change that. Naba has asked, and you've sort of touched on some of those flow-through dividends that we have from the LICs that we're invested in. Would you consider buying DJW that is not performing well, and why not even AFI? If you buy a lot, you may be able to generate income without a lot of effort. What are your thoughts? Yeah. What's the discount in DJW at the moment? Mid-teens. Yeah, mid-teens. It's the buy-and-hold strategy, though, right? Yeah, exactly. It is Wealth. What was that one? Wealth Defender. Yes. They tend not to perform. Well, because you do not get all the upside. You do not get the upside. Because in theory, they are selling calls over their position. You get all the downside, and your upside's- Capped Yeah, capped a little bit. Yeah. That strategy isn't a bad strategy. No. I've historically thought about potentially doing a fund. Yeah With that strategy, because over time, it does, because the premiums you are getting, it does sort of smooth out over time. Yeah. The answer is we look at both. AFI is at a bigger discount than Djerriwarrh. I would be more inclined to buy AFI than Djerriwarrh. You look at AFI, new managing, was it new CEO? Yep. New- General manager. General. Yeah. A new general manager, is it? And new comms people. Yeah, I think both Argo and AFI and AFIC, they have had a tough-ish period recently in terms of trading at discounts. I think over time they will go well, and you are buying a AUD 1 of assets that one you are buying, paying AUD 0.83, and one you are paying AUD 0.82, I think, at the moment. So, they look good. Yeah, and then you have just got to identify a catalyst, what you think will be a catalyst that is going to change. Gordon has asked, "Are there any plans to increase the holding in WAM, either a share purchase plan or a rights issue? Oh, to raise money? Yeah. Yeah. We're happy to raise money when we're trading at a premium to NTA. There's not any plans till that happens. Yes. Trent has said, "Geoff is obviously very active in the LIC space. Does this create any challenges for the investment team of WAM or things that they don't look at due to a conflict of interest? Not really. The reason why WAM was created, it actually was part of WAM Capital and WAM Active. Then to let the mid and small-cap guys just focus on what they were doing, buying undervalued growth companies in that mid and small-cap space, we ended up effectively floating it off. Yep. So yeah, it doesn't impact on. They're investing in operating businesses. We do sometimes invest in similar companies because we're buying asset discount plays, and it tends to be listed investment companies or listed investment trusts, but it can be anywhere. You'll notice we're buying into a property trust. We think we've identified a catalyst there for the change of the valuation. We've bought into operating businesses that are trading at a discount. We did have a position in AMP Ltd. What did we buy them initially? AUD 1.10, was it? Yeah. A dollar. Was it a dollar? It could've been a dollar. Could've been AUD 1. Yeah. We've made some good money on that. When we had our position in AMP Ltd, the investment guys at WAM Capital, WAM Capital had a position. We can potentially end up owning a similar position to them. Then, what we'll do is, of course, we'll communicate with them, but we'll either buy together or sell together. Sometimes, if they don't want to buy or sell when we're doing it, then we'll do it ourselves. Gordon has asked, "ETFs seem to be the flavor of the week as far as investments go. Is there any advantage for a LIC to invest in an ETF? Not really. ETFs, they are trust structures. The interesting thing is, with the change in the capital gains tax that the government has brought in, listed investment companies are better now than ETFs as a structure. Because you are effectively turning capital into income with a lot of listed investment companies. Where an ETF, the capital gain is you still pay tax, you get a distribution of, if the capital gains realized, you get a distribution of that. You could have a situation with an ETF where the actual, this is the most bizarre thing about trusts. Yeah Where the market can fall. I remember the various crashes or when the market has fallen 20% or 30%. You actually lose money, and because the value of the trust has dropped, then you have actually lost money, but because the shares it bought, it bought them years and years ago and might have had a realized profit on those shares. So you get a big distribution from the trust, and you have got to pay tax on that distribution. So you have actually lost capital and you pay tax on the distribution. That will never happen for a listed investment company. Yeah. You get the dividend, and if your shares fall, you might have lost capital, but you are never going to get the distribution and have to pay more tax. Yeah. Now- Everyone is happy with ETFs at the moment. You have a situation like 1987 or something, there is a big capital market adjustment, then everyone will say, "Oh, why have we invested in these ETFs and other trust structures?" But at the moment, they are open-ended vehicles, and that is why they will continue to grow. Listed investment companies, they are closed-ended, and so effectively they have got to raise more money to grow. So you have got to buy shares on market, they are not open all the time. That's why they don't grow at anywhere the rate of ETFs. I suppose they also offer that confidence of income through the market cycles, which could be useful. Yeah, the LIC gives you that. Yeah. The interesting thing is in terms of people changing behavior, you saw that with, well, A, the demand for LICs. As I said, there's going to be nearly AUD 1 billion raised in the sector over the last month and this month. With ETFs, I think in June, they usually raise about, I think about AUD 440 million goes into the ETFs. I think it was AUD 1 billion in June. People mainly looking for yielding listed investment, yielding companies, yielding ETFs. The other interesting thing is, in terms of statistics of what's happening now because of the budget, besides doubling the tax on every young aspirational Australian and doubling the tax on younger people trying to get ahead, people are using different structures. We talk about a listed investment company, so it's an investment company that's listed on the stock market. That's what we manage. Back in the old days, in the '30s and the '40s, and the '50s, the structures people used were unlisted investment companies. They are coming back now. There was 43,000 new companies registered in June. The government says, "Oh, look, that's a positive sign for what's happening in Australia in terms of employment." It's not at all. It's a positive sign that people have worked out how to pay the least tax possible. That's the only thing it is, which is you're only paying in a company structure. If you want a pooled structure, which we talked about the negative things about having an individual portfolio, then you don't want a trust anymore because that pays 30% tax. You want a company that if you have less than AUD 50 million of revenue, then you only pay 25% tax. That's the cheapest pool structure. At the moment, you find listed investment companies occasionally take over unlisted investment companies. Over the next, I'd say two or three years, there'll be an explosion of unlisted investment companies. So probably in five to 10 years, there'll be a lot of takeovers from listed investment companies of unlisted investment companies. Great, thank you. Paul has said, "What are your thoughts on RG8, Regal Asian? Martyn, do you want to You can. Yeah, happy to. Look, the performance has been strong. They're like RF1. They've had a good 12 months. Discount hasn't narrowed as much. It's still sitting mid-teens. It was leading RF1 probably six months ago. It was in single digits, and they keep traversing as the premiums and discount or the discounts tighten and widen. So we're still a holder there. We trimmed a little bit when the discount came in. At times we've added, so actively trading around that one. But we think they'll get there. Yeah. You know. We're pretty confident eventually. Yeah. Their performance has been strong. I think if they can maybe tighten up their comms market a little bit and media release, I think RF1 is due to release its results 18th of August. Given the year they've had, it should be going off with a fanfare, I think. If they can do that right, I think they will create a bit more demand to offset that supply and really narrow the discount. We are comfortable with that one. Great. Trent has said, "Lark and Dusk are a few examples in the portfolio of a non-LIC play. Do you still look for opportunities that follow this playbook, or do you purely focus on LICs? Well, no. It is any discounted asset play. We made a bit of money on Dusk. It was just a discounted asset play. Yep. We made a little bit of money, sold out. Lark, we bought at a discount, then it went to a significantly bigger discount. No. That hasn't been a good experience. I mentioned AMP Ltd earlier. What other operating business- Well, Dusk is out of the portfolio now. Yeah. Sold that out. We've got a little bit of GDC left, but that's just residual from the wind down. Yeah. Other than that, it's just Lark. Yeah. To me, you tend to find usually when there is a big market adjustment or a business sort of goes significantly out of favor, that is where AMP Ltd came in. It was trading at a big discount of the value of its assets, what we thought it was. Then we thought, I think the value of the assets at that time was AUD 1.85. We are buying around the AUD 1. We could see a catalyst, the management, we met with management. You usually got to find some dislocation with an operating business. Sometimes you get it in the mining space. At the moment, mining is very in favor. Yep. But there's times where it's out of favor, and you find mining companies that are trading at discounts to cash, so you're getting their businesses for free. After the, what was it? We're buying Everest. Yeah, the fund manager. Yeah Everest. I remember we were buying them. This is now before WAM was created, but it was again, another situation. Whether it was the GFC, after the GFC, they went from trading at a couple of dollars, they were trading down at, I think we were buying them at AUD 0.03 or AUD 0.04. I think we bought 4% or 5% of the company. I think they could have had AUD 0.06 or AUD 0.07 of cash in there. So you are betting their operating business is worth nothing. That happened after the tech wreck. You had, what was it? Melbourne IT, I think could have got to AUD 10, or AUD 8 or AUD 9, AUD 10. I think it was down at AUD 0.30. Yeah, wow. I think it could've had AUD 0.50 a share in cash. Yeah. You've just got to wait for these dislocations, aren't you? We're happy to buy anything if we think it's trading at a discount to what we believe is the value of that business. You pretty much kind of concluded what this question is, but Nava has said, "What is the rationale for investing in DXS, Dexus and what do you expect to achieve? Yeah, Dexus, it is trading at a discount NTA. We probably just do not want to go through the catalyst at the moment. But it is trading at what? Is it 30-odd%? 32%, 33%, yeah. Yeah. Discount. Yeah, so we are buying assets cheaply, and we believe we can see a catalyst. Sorry. We believe a catalyst will come. We will make some money there. Anthony has said, "Apologies if already covered," and it has been slightly covered, "But why so much cash? 30% seems very excessive. We are paying fees on you holding cash. As an investor. I would hope that unless you think the market timing you should be fully invested. Yeah, that's a theory. I don't believe that theory. Because when we're trying to invest, we're trying to take the minimum risk and get the maximum return. If we can't see an opportunity, we'll sit in cash. Now, we could give that money back to you, but then as we were saying, over the last week, we've gone from being 30% cash - 25% cash. Then we'd have had to get that money back from you quickly. Yeah. We might go to being 10% cash, so we'll need that money quickly again. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. You've got to assess us on our risk-adjusted returns over time. If you're not happy with that, then please sell your shares. The quicker you sell your shares and move on, the better for us all. Because one of the ways that you do get the share price trading at NTA, if everyone understands how you invest the money, everyone's comfortable with how you invest the money, and if you're not comfortable, then find someone you're comfortable with. Then what you find is, then you don't have any selling. Then the share price ends up going up to NTA, if not a premium. As Martyn said, look, some of our LICs are trading at 30% premiums, which is ridiculous as trading at 10% and 14% discount. So, yeah. So the cash, why do we hold the cash? It's because we can't find an opportunity. We can find the opportunities, but we can't see a catalyst that's going to change those valuations. The tough thing is those catalysts can turn up very quickly. Yeah. Now, in the last week, we've invested 5%. We probably could've invested 10% of that 30% if we wanted to, but we're just going to do it gently. Ross has asked, "Are you selling WCM Global Growth?" Which has the ticker WQG. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was one of the stocks that we covered through the slides there as an example. Bought it 18 months ago at an 18% discount. Currently trading round about NTA parity and slowly trickling that one out. Yeah, we're nearly out. Yeah. Now, we've had a few specific questions on parts of the portfolio. So CIW, NSC, and CIN. What are your rationale? NSC, we are selling. CIW, we think there is a discount of all their assets. Add them all up. What was the third one? CIN. Carlton. Oh, and their stated NTA, so 30% discount. Yep. Yeah. Great. We think there is a catalyst on all three. Fantastic. No further questions have come through. We have had a comment from Craig, who seems to invest much like yourself, Geoff. He has said, "The bigger the discount, the greater the opportunity that we have to acquire more shares cheaply. Exactly, yeah. Unfortunately, that is right. Some people, well, I agree. What would Warren Buffett say, if you are a hamburger manufacturer, what do you want? Do you want the price of hamburger meat to go up or to go down? If you are an investor, you actually want that discount to get bigger, the WAM discount, not narrow. From the board, everyone would be happier if it was trading at NTA, if not a premium. Look, I think that was our last question. Comment, and thank you for that. Again, thank you, everyone. Thank you, Tommy, for the Q&A. You did a great job. Thanks, Martyn, and thanks, Jesse, for the work on the portfolio. Thank you all, shareholders, for trusting us to manage money on your behalf. We love doing this. Please, if you have got any ideas, suggestions, or comments, please send them through because this is your company. Thank you.