Afternoon, and welcome everyone to the WAM Alternative Assets, or we'll call it WMA Interim Webinar. You'll all be aware, you know, we have this regularly. It's our opportunity to engage with you, and thank you. We've had a really good response in terms of shareholders that have sent questions in, but also people that have signed up and are currently in on the webinar. We want to take you through the last 6 and 12 months of WMA and really, again, talk about the future of WMA because of all the listed investment companies that come under the WAM brand, WMA is the best value currently in terms of trading about nearly 20% below the value of the assets. So anyone who's heard me talk before, what we try to do is we try to buy, as investors, you want to buy assets cheaply. With listed investment companies, you're really looking to buy them at NTA or, if not, at a discount to NTA because then you're getting a partial free kick. In terms of, but just let's look at the performance of WMA over the last 12 months. The portfolio has performed solidly. It's up about 8%. Since we took over, the portfolio is up, I think it's about 9.3%. We sort of took it over from Blue Sky, which, well, ended up going, they had significant problems. The whole portfolio has been reconditioned. It's exciting. Today you'll meet Nick Kelly, our new portfolio manager, that will be working with the board and also the investment committee, which Dania remains on, will be on the investment committee. Working to the benefit of all shareholders. In terms of today, I'll give you a bit of an intro, then I'll pass on to Nick, who will take you through a bit more of the details. Then we'll open up for a number of the questions that you've already sent in, but also, Bridget, one of our senior comms people, will be asking the questions. Any other questions you have over the day during the webinar, please send it in. In terms of the performance, one thing you've got to remember with alternative assets is one of the beauties of investing in alternative assets is that the volatility is significantly less than the market. In theory, what is volatility? Normally you assume the lower volatility, the lower returns. What this beautiful situation you've got with WMA is you've got low volatility and the volatility, the markets, the ASX volatility last 12 months was around that 14% mark, jumping up and down a lot. We've seen that obviously more recently. The volatility with the WMA portfolio was about 3.4% over the last 12 months. Significantly less volatility and still provided a solid return over that 12-month period. In terms of the, another thing is the dividend. You would have seen that the directors slightly increased the dividend. Now there's a little over three years of reserves. Without WMA making any more money, there's three years of dividends already on the company's balance sheet. In terms of WMA, it's not only trading at a discount to the value of the assets or below the value of the assets, but it's also on a really nice, good yield, a little over 5% and nearly getting close to 8% on a pre-tax basis. What I'll do, I mentioned earlier about Nick Kelly joining us and that's joining Wilson Asset Management and taking over from Dania in terms of as the portfolio manager. Now, Nick, it's interesting, Nick and Dania actually did work together for a period of time very closely. Nick was very senior at Willis Towers Watson, where he was head of alternatives and really had a really strong track record in investing in that space, identifying high-quality investment opportunities in that alternative asset space. We're very excited to have Nick on board to drive this company over the next two, three, five, ten years because we think as an investment opportunity that the ability to buy a listed investment company that gives you exposure to those alternative assets, it's the democratization of getting exposure to alternative assets where I know myself personally, historically, that is a challenging place to invest in. Why don't I pass over to Nick now, who will take you through the next part of the presentation. Thank you. Wonderful. Thanks, Geoff, for the intro and the kind words. As Geoff said, I'm the new portfolio manager for WMA. I'm really excited about the future prospects and the growth prospects for WMA. Some of you may have seen the video that came out with the reminder for this webinar yesterday. In that, Geoff interviewed me around joining Wilson Asset Management and taking on this role. The first question he asked was, what attracted you to joining Wilson Asset Management? I think it's a useful place to start here this afternoon. Really, the reason I joined is twofold. Firstly, the high-quality nature of the WMA portfolio. I have sort of watched this portfolio from afar and admired it. It is a truly institutional quality portfolio. Secondly, the runway for growth. In many ways, you can sort of think about the process we've been through with WMA in sort of two stages, if you like. Stage one was all around the sort of revitalization of the portfolio and repositioning it when we took it on from Blue Sky back in 2020. That stage is largely sort of complete now. There's only sort of 15%-20% left in those legacy assets. We're expecting some of those to return capital this year. The next stage, stage two, is all about the growth stage. That's what I'm here to hopefully deliver on. That's around growing our NTA, growing the profit reserve, and ultimately growing the dividends over time. Rather than talking to the sort of slides in detail, I thought it might be useful just to sort of put myself in your position as shareholders. What questions would you have for a new portfolio manager who's been in the seat for sort of seven weeks? There's two that jump to mind. The first is, well, Nick, what do you think of the portfolio? What are the gaps? Are there any gaps? What's the focus for 2025? Secondly, Nick, what are you going to do about shrinking the discount? On the first point, as I said, it is a high-quality portfolio. I do think that it is exceptionally well positioned for the current opportunity set. That said, of course, there are a few tweaks I will be looking to make. The areas of focus for us this year will be threefold. Firstly, we have a small allocation to private debt within the portfolio, just under 5%. I want that to sort of shift upwards closer to 10% over time. Now, we're very conscious of some of the cracks appearing in the private debt space. You will have seen there's plenty of press around at the moment. It's worth acknowledging that most of those cracks are specific to sort of residential development lending, so real estate lending. We do not have any exposure to real estate lending within this portfolio. I'm not planning on adding any at this point in the cycle. What we do have exposure to is lending to high-quality corporates. Okay? That's the sort of private debt opportunity. Some of that noise does create opportunities for skilled investment partners. We do think this is a pretty interesting space. The second area we're looking at is a potential additional allocation in infrastructure, which has been a very resilient asset class over the last few years. This is a group that I know very well. It is an opportunistic sort of infrastructure strategy. Importantly, we can get capital deployed pretty quickly. We do not have to wait two to three years to get money invested, which is important. Interestingly, that strategy is a sort of thematic investment strategy. The themes that they are targeting are very well aligned to the themes we are targeting through WMA. Finally, we will make at least one more sort of allocation to private equity this year. On that, you might have seen that the current unallocated cash balance is quite low. The obvious question is, Nick, that all sounds great, but where are you getting the cash from to go and execute on these new opportunities? One thing that you do not see with the bar chart around our current allocations is the expected cash that we will get back as we exit assets. There is this sort of constant sort of churn, if you like, that you will see in the portfolio over time. As it matures, we will receive cash back and exits from the underlying assets. We need to redeploy that cash into new opportunities. We want to have a fairly sort of linear and disciplined approach to deploying that capital. We do not have a crystal ball. We do not know what markets are going to look like in a few years. We want to sort of be investing through the cycle and partnering with the very best investment partners to deliver for our shareholders. The second question, narrowing the discount, what am I going to do? I've had that question already from a number of shareholders that I've spoken to. It is a fair one. As Geoff said, it is trading at a big discount at the moment. I asked Geoff this question during my first interview. I sort of thought Geoff might give me this sort of magic secret that he'd been keeping from the market for decades. Geoff responded. He said something that will be etched in my mind forever. He said, "Nick, it's really bloody easy. We just need more buyers than sellers." I have taken that on board. I'm going to do two things to help here. Firstly, it's about engaging with our shareholders to help them better understand WMA and its role in a broader portfolio alongside equities. Secondly, I'm going to leverage the relationships I've built with advisors and wealth professionals in the market, hopefully add them to the register over time. Hopefully that buying pressure will result in WMA trading up, ideally to NTA or potentially a premium in the future. Finally, just quickly on transaction activity and how the markets are looking and what to expect for the rest of the year. We do think that transaction activity is going to tick up. That should bode well for WMA. On the one side, we should see hopefully some exits come through, both on some of the legacy assets, but also the newer investments that have been made. Those exits are really important to help provide investors some proof in what we're building with WMA as we get to a more mature portfolio. The flip side is transaction activity also means there's some really good buying opportunities. Okay? We're actually progressing with a new co-investment at the moment that we received from one of our investment partners. I can't say much at this stage about this business, but it's pretty interesting. It's an audit services business in the self-managed superannuation fund space, a space that many of you would probably know quite well. We really like this space. We think there's some pretty good dynamics at play, high barriers to entry, and a recurring revenue stream. Importantly, it's in the small to mid-market space where we have a competitive advantage over larger players in the market that would love to buy a business like this, but frankly is too small and wouldn't move the needle for them. As I said, really excited about the future prospects of WMA. With that, I'm going to hand back to Geoff, who's going to talk a little about the Premium Target vote that's coming at the end of the year. Look, thanks, Nick. Shareholders, any questions you have, please fire them in. There's never a question that's sort of not up to scratch because probably half the people on the webinar would like to ask that question no matter what it is. Please send it in. If we can't, because it's an hour webinar today and we've just got a bit of a time constraint at the end, we've got another webinar coming up after that. If we can't get to your question, then we'll answer it later on. In terms of the, as shareholders you'll be aware, when we took over the management of WMA, one of the sort of agreements was for us to put in a Premium Target. The plan was to get the share price to trade at a premium. It had to trade at a premium for at least three days over the five-year period. If it did, then it would not need to go to a vote to shareholders. Effectively, the vote is whether the company continues or not, or the assets are sold over time, which, as you will be aware, would take a few years to sell those assets or the assets that have been put together because some of those investments are sort of medium-term duration investments. That is coming up at the end of this year. I mean, the interesting thing is since Wilson Asset Management has been the manager, the number of shareholders has grown by about 37-odd%. I think when we took over the management of this company, I think it might have been trading at around that 33%-35% discount NTA. A lot of shareholders bought in in the early days. We have not traded at a premium NTA yet. We have got pretty close. I think we were within, I think we were 7% or 8% discount. Over the last, the interesting thing is over the last sort of little period, the discount has increased to a degree. Some of the feedback we had been getting from investors, like there is one big financial planning group that we were talking to, they said, "Look, we are really not prepared to commit capital to this company with that degree of uncertainty with this vote coming up." We are pretty convinced. I know personally, myself, that I own sort of, or companies associated with me own a reasonable holding in this company. I want the company to grow and prosper. I would love it to now be trading at NTA. To me, I'm convinced it can trade at a premium NTA. As Nick mentioned, it really is a supply-demand equation. It sounds really easy. You have more buyers than sellers, and then you get to NTA. The fact is it's very hard because your 4,000-odd shareholders, they all have to be happy and understand clearly what you're doing. You need to get some more shareholders. I think what happened since we took it over, obviously, it was a Blue Sky entity. You can see how we've increased the number of shareholders. I'd assume a lot of the Blue Sky shareholders had sort of had enough. It was just a matter of time before they left. Probably, as I mentioned more recently, which I didn't necessarily expect, but there's the uncertainty because this vote's coming up that I will, what people that Nick's talking about getting new investors, but they'll want certainty. If they're going to back Nick or back Wilson Asset Management, then everyone wants certainty. Some shareholders have asked us, "Can we bring the vote forward? Could we have brought it forward to last year's AGM?" Obviously, that's an option. I tend to, to me, I suppose one of the reasons I wasn't that keen on that is because then people might say, "Oh, look, you're bringing it forward for self-interest," etc., etc. To me, the agreement was the vote's in five years, let's have the vote. I'm very confident that it'll vote for the company to continue. We remove that uncertainty and we can focus on getting that share price trading at NTA because, as I mentioned, it's nearly a 20% discount. If it trades back at NTA, that's 80 cents going back to a dollar, hypothetically. You're up another 25%. From here, we'd all feel a lot, we'd feel as though we're worth a bit more. Nick, do you have any specific comments on that target that we've got there? Yeah, just on the vote, Geoff, I think it's an important one because I had the same question. I remember asking you in my first interview, "Am I going to have a job in 12 months, Geoff?" I. I should have said, "Lucky, I didn't say it's a 12-month contract. Exactly. Exactly. I made sure I signed a full-time contract. I got very comfortable through our interaction and also the interaction I've now had with a number of our shareholders that there is a desire to invest in WMA longer term. There is a role for WMA in our investor portfolios long term. There is a real commitment to investing more into alternatives within the broader Wilson's business. This is not a, "Let's just say it out till the end of the year." There is a real commitment here to grow WMA over time. That is what I'm here to do. I think it's a fair question to have. As I said, I had the same question. Through my interactions, I've got sort of comfortable that we do have the support to get through this period at the end of the year and hopefully move forwards and grow the portfolio over time. Maybe just on that, Geoff, should we hand. Just on that, like in terms of it's shareholders' decision. We'll put it at the vote. What shareholders decide, then we'll work through after that. Absolutely. With that, conscious of time, I might hand back to Bridget, who's going to run through our Q&A today. Great. Thanks, Nick. As Geoff mentioned, if we don't have time to answer your question, we will contact you after the call. To kick off, we've received quite a few questions on the profits reserve and how it works. Geoff, can you please give a brief explanation of what the profits reserve is, how it works, and how it forms part of the NTA? Okay. Thanks, Bridget. And thanks for all shareholders. Probably the reason why we highlight the profit reserve is really to give investors comfort that the ability of the company to pay dividends, consistent dividends. Obviously, we'd like to have a growing stream of fully franked dividends. Just give them comfort around that. In terms of the profit reserve, it is any profit that the portfolio makes, and that's realized or unrealized profit, from an accounting perspective, gets moved to a profit reserve. It's purely an accounting entry. We haven't necessarily sold any assets because, as I said, it's realized and unrealized profits. It is part of the portfolio. With WMA, we've got, I think it's 3.1 years. You'd have a lot of confidence that, as I mentioned earlier, we really don't need to make money for the next three years, which obviously the plan is to make money and to continue to grow that profit reserve. Some people say, "Look, if you've got so much in the profit reserve, let's pay it out to shareholders." As I said, it's realized and unrealized. We'd have to sell assets potentially to do that if that was the case. Also, because it's realized and unrealized, there's usually a, when you're paying dividends to shareholders, you're better off paying them fully franked dividends. If it's realized and unrealized profit, then you only pay the tax when the profit is realized. There's usually a mismatch between the amount of franking. There's less franking usually and more profit reserve. The plan is to pay out fully franked dividends, a growing stream of fully franked dividends to shareholders. As we realize assets, pay the tax, then we've got the profit reserve and the franking to pay the fully franked dividends to shareholders. Great. Geoff, we'll stay with you. This next one's from Philip. He says, "Can you please explain why WAM Alternative Assets share price has remained flat over the past four years and NTA growth has been limited? Given the LIC's objective to preserve capital and provide steady dividends, do you believe it has delivered on its mandate? Okay. There are two or three parts to that. There are observations. You have to break it up. Thanks, Bridget. There are more questions there. Yeah. Yeah. Potentially. There's a comment. There's a comment. Yeah. Yeah. We'll start with the share price being flat and NTA growth limited over the past four years. Yeah. The share price, well, since we took it over, the share price was trading well below where it currently is. I mean, over the last few years, first of all, when you're paying out, say, currently it's a little over 5% fully franked, then you need to make, I think the grossed-up yield is a little just over 8%. You have to make 8% a year on a pre-tax basis to pay that as a fully franked. For the last 12 months, I said we've done about 8%. Since we took it over, I mentioned we've done 9.3%. If you're paying out nearly on a pre-tax basis, nearly everything you're earning, then you don't have a great deal of capital growth. In terms of, I think I mentioned earlier as well about the risk you take when you invest, say you invest in equities and the volatility is 14%, so it goes up and down a lot, where WMA's volatility has been 3.4%. It is incredibly low volatility, which is a measure of risk and solid returns. Also, in the first, probably up until the last year or so, we inherited a portfolio of assets that Blue Sky were managing historically. Blue Sky, the manager, as you'd be aware, went under. We ended up taking over the management of these assets. In private equity, or sorry, in alternative assets, which includes private equity, various other areas. In alternative assets, it takes time to sell what you want to sell and put the portfolio together that you want. It just takes time. That is why that is. In terms of going forward, what should you expect? To me, what is happiness? Happiness is, or sort of the difference between what you expect and what is delivered. For shareholders, if you're expecting big volatility, then you're not going to get it in WMA. If you're expecting like 20% and 30% years, you won't get it in WMA. You'll get those types of performances over time. Nick will probably talk about it a little later. Might be a question on it. The various positions that Dania or WMA has rolled out of, they've been selling them at 30% above what we're carrying them in the books at. There could well be some latent value in the portfolio. What's WMA? It's exposure to alternative assets. You're taking significantly less risk and getting a good return. That is what we're sort of focused on. Yep. Absolutely. What are the other parts? That was one part of the question. What are the other parts? Do you think that the LIC has delivered on its objective to preserve capital and provide steady dividends? 100%. 100%. Now, obviously, that's the NTA. You, as a shareholder, you might have bought at an 8% discount. Now it's trading closer to a 20% discount. You will feel as though it hasn't delivered for you. Now, the fact is the NTA is the NTA. I would assume once we get past this vote and there is clean air, that just removes a level of uncertainty. I would assume that tightening of the discount to NTA will occur once the uncertainty has been removed. Thanks, Geoff. The next question's from Stuart. Do you believe there will be more activity this year in private companies? Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's Nick. Nick, you're the expert there. Yeah, sure. Short answer, yes. We do think there will be more activity. Transaction activity has been fairly muted for the last sort of couple of years. There has been lots of folks sitting on the sidelines. We're starting to see some of that converge and some greater agreement on price. The recent rate cut does help. We do think there will be an increase in transaction activity. As I said before, we think that will act as a bit of a tailwind for WMA, both in terms of exits, but also new buying opportunities as well. Great. Thanks, Nick. Next question's from Brett. Geoff, how do you generate franking credits in WMA and pay these out as fully franked dividends to shareholders? Yeah. In WMA, it's pretty much tax paid. So WMA makes a profit, realizes an investment, makes a capital profit, pays tax, 30% tax on that, which obviously there's franking attached to that profit. Just on that, Nick, is there much or anything in the way of flow-through franking from any of the investee companies or? No, not much. There might be a little bit, but not a huge amount. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty much from tax that we pay inside the company on profit that we make. And that's realized profits. Great. From Sandra, "Are you considering a share purchase plan to increase the investable amount and grow the fund? Good work, Sandra. At this discount, currently, the plan is probably not a share purchase plan. It's interesting. Someone suggested, "Do we do a contributing share?" which is partly paid. Anyway, the plan is to, for Nick, the plan is to make sure all shareholders are happy effectively. If everyone's happy, then there's no sellers. Then it's to get some more buying. That is for the share price to trade at NTA. That gives us an opportunity of growing it, doing a share purchase plan, doing a partly paid, or it gives you a lot of options. Thank you. Next one's from Nathan. "Can you please talk a little bit about the liquidity of your investments and how this affects the way you think about cash in the portfolio? Once all capital in the portfolio is committed, will you need to raise more funds in order to invest in additional opportunities? Yeah, sure. The underlying investments are all liquid investments. The one exception to that, and excuse the pun, is the water rights because they are actually quite a liquid asset class. All of the underlying investments are largely illiquid. When we're committing capital, we're committing capital over a number of years. That then gets drawn down and will be returned back. The typical term for these commitments is a lot of these funds are sort of 7-10 year funds that we're committing capital to. The second part of that was, therefore, how do we manage cash? It's a really good question. It's something we have to manage each and every day. We have committed, of the 22% holding that we currently have in cash, the majority of that has been committed to future strategies, which will be drawn down over time. As I mentioned before, because of the way the portfolio matures, we will receive cash back from exits. Okay? As that cash comes back, it will top up the cash account, which then can be drawn down for future commitments. You have this sort of cycle that occurs within the asset class, but there is a need to have some cash on hand to meet those capital calls as they come through. Thanks, Nick. We have a question from Julius. "WAM share price spiked at $1.13 on the 24th of September. Can you comment on the reason for this? Yeah, sure. Just on that spike, as I understand it, a new advisor had come into the market and bought WMA on behalf of a number of their clients. That is why we're seeing the convergence, I guess, of our sort of traditional retail shareholders, but also financial advisors coming in and looking at WMA and the role it can play in their client portfolio. That was the reason for the spike. Great. That just sort of emphasizes once this spikes, we've had the vote, then it just removes that level of uncertainty. Of course, then we'd like a lot more buyers than the share price moves up and past NTA. Great. The next question's from Phil. "How do you work out the one-year return of over 5%? The share price was $0.96 on the 20th of March. And with a $0.052 dividend, that only works out at less than 2% annual return. Are you able to explain how it's calculated?" That's from Phil. Yeah, I can cover this one, Geoff. The investment return that's quoted there is from the investment portfolio. It's not the total shareholder return. The total shareholder return over the one year, though, is about 5-5.5%. That's the dividend yield that's effectively been paid throughout the year because the share price has largely unmoved over the one year. The return that the investors have received is the dividend yield. Thanks very much, Nick. A question from Stan. "Calculating NTA requires you to value many different unlisted assets. What methods do you use to do this? Yeah, sure. The valuation approach is sort of there's two stages to it. We have our own approach that we need to undertake on both a semi-annual and annual basis. Being a listed company, there's obviously a fair bit of rigor around that. We have audited financial statements. Okay? We go through a process semi-annually to go through all of the valuations we've received from our underlying investment partners on the assets that we own. The approach that they then use to value the assets will differ depending on the asset class. Okay? In private equity, for example, they typically assets or companies are held at cost for the first 12 months. As those businesses start to perform, they tend to use a capitalization of earnings approach and at times may use discounting cash flow. In real estate and infrastructure, a discounting cash flow approach is used. Also, comparable sales in real estate is quite common. In real estate and infrastructure, I should say as well, that the underlying investment partners will have their assets valued externally by an independent party at least semi-annually. There is additional rigor there. The agriculture assets are valued on a sort of future commodity price of the asset itself multiplied by the expected sort of harvest or tonnage from the assets. Water is a little easier because it is a traded market. We know what a water entitlement is worth at any point in time. It is a little different depending on the underlying asset class. As I said, it's a sort of two-stage process, both the process the underlying investment partners go through to validate the market value of those assets and then the process we go through to sort of challenge them on those valuations and ensure they represent fair market value. Thanks, Nick. A question from Michael. "What is the approximate net return of private debt? And why do people borrow from this source rather than just use a bank? That's a really good question. The returns differ quite a bit depending on the strategy. The strategies that we invest in within WMA and what we'd be looking to invest in the future will be returning sort of cash plus 3 to cash plus 5 on average. We are not seeking out, you'll see some private debt funds in the market promising 15% plus returns. We are not looking at those. If you're earning 15% plus returns, you're probably taking equity risk, not debt risk. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. That's where some of the issues are in the market. The other part of the question, why not just go to a bank? It's a really good question. The reason for why this market exists is it has become more challenging for banks to do the sorts of lending they have traditionally done because of the regulatory regime that they face and the capital they need to hold against the loans they make. As a result, they have sort of left a bit of a void in the market. There's been demand for borrowing. Asset managers have raised money to come in and fill that void in the form of private debt. The other thing to remember here is private debt is typically much more flexible capital. Any of you that have, most of us have dealt with banks during our life and you've got a mortgage and things like that, there's usually a checklist that the bank goes through with you. If you can't tick one of those boxes, they don't want to know you. That doesn't mean you're not a good borrower, right? That's where private debt can play a role because they can provide more flexible capital and see through some of the issues that the banks find it hard to do because of the regulatory regime they face. It tends to be a more flexible type of capital. Great. From Saranjit, "What is the potential to increase the dividend payout? Obviously, that's a board decision. There is a profit reserve there that we talked about. Hypothetically, it wouldn't be fully franked, but a dividend of three times the annual dividend could be paid because you need profit. For it to be franked, you need tax paid, which provides the franking. The plan is, I mean, one of the great things about listed investment companies, and there was a good piece on Livewire just recently. If you're interested, we can send it to you, which talked about people looking at listed investment companies versus ETFs. I call a listed investment company a thinking man's ETF. If you don't know anything about the market, then probably just invest in an ETF, which gives you the market return. The beautiful thing about listed investment companies, they do trade at discounts to NTA and they do trade at premiums to NTA. Now, we have eight WAM listed investment companies and five of them trade at premiums to NTA and three of them trade at discounts. Our plan will be the three that are discounts, get them to NTA and eventually get them trading at a premium. To me, it's a, yeah, that's one of the beauties. Great. A question from Leon. "Can you speak a little more about the legacy assets, especially their quality? For example, what is the current percentage of the portfolio that they represent? What do you hope this figure will be within a year or two? Are there likely to be some sticky assets? Yeah, it's a good question. The legacy assets make up just under 20% of the portfolio as it currently sits. Those assets sit across venture capital, private equity, the agriculture assets, and water rights as well. Now, water rights are probably an interesting one. Whilst it's a legacy asset, it is an asset we will continue to hold, but we will hold it at a smaller weight than it has historically been held within the portfolio. At the moment, I think water rights or water entitlements make up about 18% of the portfolio. We are looking to bring that down to about 10-12%. We think that's the right sort of weighting to water in this portfolio. Water is a wonderful diversifier. We do want to hold it long term, but at a more appropriate weight than it has traditionally been. The agriculture assets, we're looking to have those exited hopefully this year in speaking with our investment partner. Now, the question there around is some of that, the stickiness of assets. I think they're a good example of that. Agriculture assets can be challenging in the sense it's not a particularly deep market. You might have a really good agriculture asset. You might have a really strong sort of operating partner, but it can be difficult if there's no buyers for it. We don't think that's the case with these assets. We think our investment partner will be able to exit these assets, but they're the ones that they could be a bit stickier and take a bit longer to exit and hopefully get NTA or above for. The venture capital assets, we're hoping that those will be exited this year. Over the next 12 to 18 months, we're hopeful that we can sort of reduce the weighting to the legacy assets in the portfolio. Great. The next one from Greg. "Of the 12 portfolio exits displayed on slide seven, how many were in the past 12 months? Yeah, sure. As we referenced, the transaction activity has been a bit muted recently. Only one of those exits is in the last 12 months, which is Birch & Waite, which I think we've given some details on previously, which was a really strong exit. That said, some of those exits that have occurred prior to 2024, we will have received cash in 2024. We clearly don't receive cash the day these assets are sold. There is always a bit of lag between when the exit occurs and when we receive cash back to then redeploy. One large exit in the last year. We're looking at sort of hopeful that we get sort of three to four exits on the portfolio this year. Thanks, Nick. From Ian, "What are your thoughts on the value and opportunity in water rights going forward? Yeah. As I mentioned, we do think water has its place in this portfolio. It is, as I said, it's about as good a diversifier as you can get. It doesn't matter what Trump says. It's not going to impact whether it rains or not, right? It is a wonderful diversifier in the context of a portfolio, but it needs to be right-sized. There has been the government buyback program. That will probably act as a bit of a political handle coming into the election. Depending on the results of the election, that may impact the price of water entitlements. The background there is that the Labor government, alongside the Greens, has promised to buy back water. That therefore takes supply out of the market and should drive up price. We understand that some transactions have occurred at sort of 10-30% premiums to current traded water prices. As a result, there are lots of holders of water entitlements currently sort of sitting on the sidelines to see what happens with respect to the election. Time will tell. We do think that they have a role in the portfolio. As a longer-term thematic around one of the themes that we are playing through WMA is around sort of the scarcity of food and natural resources. Water is a core attribute of that. There is a longer-term sort of reason for holding water to play that theme. Great. Trent had a very similar question on water rights. You have covered most of it, I think, Nick, potentially the last part. Are there any political risks associated with the elections? Yeah. I think, yeah, we've probably covered it. I mean, the flip side is obviously if Liberals get through, I don't think it acts as a huge negative to the market. What it will do is remove some of the uncertainty and we'll have some more, we'll have an increase in trading and entitlements because people, as I said, have been sort of sitting on the sidelines. We might not see the big jump that we might get if Labor get through the election. We don't think it'll be a negative for the portfolio. Perfect. From Greg, "What was the past 12-month return on the water rights? Water rights have been fairly flat for the last 12 months. It has been a challenging environment. We've had some wetter periods and that hasn't helped. If we backtrack for some of our investors who've been around from Blue Sky days, they'll have experienced exceptionally strong returns from water rights. From 2017 to 2019, water rights delivered 20% plus returns each year. I think investors became used to that, thinking that was normal. It wasn't. Those were outsized returns. The reason for that was they were particularly dry years and we had some severe droughts around the Murray-Darling. The last year or two have been particularly wet, and that's hurt. Somewhere in between those is where we see water performing longer term. For the last year, I think returns have been around 1% from water, including the yield and capital movements. Beautiful. The next question is from Steven. "Is the portfolio of the ideal size to fulfill its mandate or would it ideally be larger? Why and if larger, how much? Yeah, it's a good question. Geoff may have a view on this as well. It is large enough to fulfill its current mandate. As a result of its size, at its current size, we can be very, very nimble. The opportunity set in private markets is huge, right? If we were multiples of the size we are now, we would still have no issues deploying that capital. At the moment, the portfolio is all in largely Australian assets. There is nothing stopping us from going global. We sort of haven't needed to to date. There has obviously been a lot of work that's gone into reshaping the portfolio that we've got today. If we think forward, I think the opportunity here would be at some point to potentially, if we get this to trade up to NTA, perhaps raising capital and going global at that point to tap the broad private markets or alternatives opportunity set that exists offshore because it is a very big opportunity set. As I said, I don't think we're missing out on anything at our current size. At a much bigger size, we open up global markets and can increase the size of the portfolio over time. Great. The next question is from Tony. "Can you explain to the audience why WMA is trading at such a high price-to-earnings ratio? Ooh. To To me, let me have a go at that, Nick. I mean, what happens is, and you look at all listed investment companies, effectively the earnings is the change in value of the assets. So the earnings, well, it'll be after-tax earnings. We talked about the last, just the 12-month period just gone to December, we said the assets are up 8% pre-tax. Tax that, so they're up a little over 5% after-tax. How do you turn a yield into a PE? It's 100 divided by that. It's nearly about a 20 times PE. If the portfolio is up, say, 30%, and then you paid 30% tax, then the portfolio has made about 20%, which is a PE of about five times. You tend to find, and the equity market does 10%. On average, just not talking about alts, talking about the average listed investment company, it does about 10%. Then you tax that at 7% after-tax. And then what's that? Is it 15 times? What's 100 into 7? Fifteen and a bit. It would be on a fifteen and a bit times PE. You'd say, "Well, that's expensive on a fifteen and a bit times PE." You don't look at listed investment companies on PEs. Because we know operating businesses, you want to buy them sort of on PEs of six, seven, eight. Where listed investment companies, you look at the assets. Thanks, Geoff. From Margaret, she says, "Will WMA consider a social housing investment or a super fund partner? Yeah. Just before you, Nick, just a bit of history. WMA has looked closely at social housing. I know. Anyway, that's Nick, sorry, you can answer that. No, you're right. It is a space that I've invested in previously. There is a small number of sort of skilled groups operating in this space. Obviously, the regulatory side that you need to get comfortable with. We could consider it. Absolutely, there's nothing stopping us from doing something in the social housing space if we thought that it would be additive to the portfolio. If we think about investment opportunities, there's sort of two, I guess there's two pieces here. There's what's the opportunity set and is the opportunity set ripe for investment? Secondly, do we have a skilled investment partner who can capitalize on the opportunity set? Sometimes we might find one and not the other, okay? It's marrying those two things up. If we thought the opportunity set was particularly ripe for investment and we found the right partner, absolutely, we could consider investment and perhaps invest into that space. The second question around partnering with a superannuation fund, it's worth saying that for a number of our underlying investments with our investment partners, there are superannuation funds that have invested effectively alongside us. We are sort of institutional capital alongside superannuation funds. If the question was around superannuation funds actually buying WMA, clearly, given its size, that's not been the case. They could, and that would obviously drive up the price of WMA. Most of those superannuation funds, and that's a world that I know well because they were my sort of traditional client base in my old role, they would be investing in a similar way that we are investing in the same sort of investment partners. They have invested alongside us, or we've invested alongside them in a number of our underlying strategies. Thanks, Nick. The next question's from Raymond. "Do your assets usually sell below their NTA value? And if so, does this lead to WMA shares also trading at a discount? Yeah. Short answer is no. On that slide, I think we showed before, slide seven, we've had 12 exits in the portfolio since we took over from Blue Sky back in 2020, October 2020. Those exits have averaged out at a 34.5% premium to NTA. The exits that we've experienced have been at a significant premium to NTA. Now, clearly, we can't guarantee that in the future. Often with these assets, there is some latency in the way in which they're valued and then exit. Sometimes we can get a pop on exit. The experience to date has been that exits have been at a premium, not at a discount. Great. Thank you. The next one's from Trent. Geoff, this one's for you. He says, "Geoff, on the Premium Target vote, what management fee will Wilson Asset Management be putting to shareholders? Yeah. To me, there's no change in the management fee. Just in terms of a bit of history, when this was Blue Sky, it was Blue Sky Alternatives Access. The management that were managing the portfolio then put a proposal up to say they charge 1.5% management fee and I think a 7.5% performance fee. The reason why we got involved in potentially putting our name in the ring to manage this portfolio was one is I just thought what an incredible opportunity it was to invest in alternative assets in a listed form, which there's no other opportunity to do that, Australian majority of Australian alternative assets. Also the fact that the proposal that the previous management were putting up, I thought with their historic performance to ask for a 1.5% fee and a 7.5% performance fee was a little on the high side. We put a proposal in that said that we'd manage it for a 1% fee. We said, "We'll put the vote in there in five years' time." We said we wouldn't take a performance fee. Always talking to the largest shareholders back then was we said, "Look, let's give it five years. You see how we've gone in terms of performing with the money. Then we'll talk about putting a performance fee in." Currently, there's no proposal to change the structure. To me, the plan is to keep it as it is. There's no performance fee. Thanks, Geoff. I'll actually pass back to you in a second. That looks like we have answered all of the questions. Just a reminder to shareholders to stay informed, please subscribe to our email insights. You can follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook. Yeah, I'll pass back to you, Geoff. Thank you. Look, thanks very much, Bridget. And thanks very much, Nick. As you know, all the shareholders, this is your company. Thanks. There's a lot of shareholders that have called in. If you do have any additional questions, please contact, ring or email or contact us because it is your company. We're excited that we have the opportunity to manage this. It's very unique. One of the good things is that I'm very confident that over time that we will return the share price to trade at NTA, if not a premium. Thanks everyone for calling in and look forward to seeing you. Our roadshow is coming up. For anyone that hasn't registered, please register for the roadshow because I know that there's significant interest. We're doing a new fund and there's significant interest. We want to make sure we can everyone's got a seat. Thanks very much. I look forward to seeing you at the roadshow. Bye.