Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Power Corporation third quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all lines are in listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Instructions will be provided at that time for you to queue up for a question. If anyone has any difficulties hearing the conference, please press star then zero for operator assistance at any time. I would like to remind everyone that this call is being recorded on Tuesday, November 14th, 2023. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Jeffrey Orr, President and Chief Executive Officer of Power Corporation. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you, operator, and welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining us this morning for our Q3 results call. I am joined by Denis Le Vasseur, who is the Principal Financial Officer at this point of Power Corp. Denis has been with the group for over 30 years and is going to be covering off on the financials with me today. A number of you have asked about Greg Tretiak, and I'll just make a brief comment. Greg is doing well. He is at home. He's recovering in good spirits, and that's about all I can say at this point. So that's all good news and nothing further to comment and at this point. So with Denis and I, we'll go through the regular presentation. You've got the forward-looking cautionary statements on pages two and three regarding forward-looking information and non-IFRS information. On page four, you have a picture of Denis. Denis, I don't know whether that's a recent photo. I'm looking at you and looking at this picture at this time. It's a little different. Maybe a little different. A little different. That's what I was going to say. So we've got Denis and I, and I'll go right through then to the rest of the information. You've got on page six a number of other recent disclosures by our group companies, and with that, I'll spend a few minutes on page seven. So the highlight for me is just continued strong financial performance by our two main operating and income-producing businesses, Great-West Life and IGM. And Great-West Lifec o continues to show very strong growth in earnings, and the quarter in particular was well-balanced. It was very clean, there wasn't a lot of noise, and sometimes on the insurance side, you do get noise going one way or the other. It was a very clean quarter and just demonstrating what we've been saying to the market for some time, that we see strong growth in in organic earnings coming from Great-West Lifeco. IGM as well produced very solid results. Not the easiest environment. Both asset management and wealth management are in outflows at this point, and the markets have been very choppy. And they produce very solid results and continue to demonstrate that they can invest in the future growth of the business while managing their costs very effectively. So for me, those were the two kind of highlights in the quarter. Just moving towards the bottom part of the page, it is noteworthy. However, Great-West Lifeco continued to make good progress on its previously announced acquisitions. Prudential is on track. In fact, ahead of track, in terms of a number of the metrics, and Great-West Lifeco also focusing on the wealth side with some acquisitions that they are in the process of completing. GBL, a big earnings quarter for GBL. Denis is going to comment on that in a moment, excuse me. But GBL continues to be active on returning capital to shareholders through buybacks. Sagard closed the transaction that we announced in the last call with ADQ and BMO, and so bringing in outside partners to continue to grow the Sagard franchise. The alternative platforms had good fundraising in the quarter, CAD 1.2 billion of new commitments in Q3 in a very difficult funding environment, but continued solid progress there, and Power itself continues to be active on the buyback side. Page eight, the environment is one where money is still flowing into cash products, flowing into CDs and the money market funds. It's also, you know, Canadians and Americans are engaged in debt repayment, and so you've got... Obviously, interest rates are having a big impact on the behavior of consumers, the behaviors of investors, where it's not flowing. So you've got outflows going on in asset management, you've got outflows going on in long-term investments, and that's showing up in some of the headwinds that we're getting at this point in the cycle in our various franchises. With that, I'll turn it over to Denis to address some of the financials over the next few pages. Well, thank you, Jeff, and good morning, everyone. Please turn to page nine, and as Jeff just noted, we saw strong earnings contributions from both Lifec o and IGM this quarter. Adjusted net earnings from continuing operations were $1.7 billion, up versus $520 million in the same quarter last year. This translates into $1.52 per share, compared with $0.78 in Q3 of 2022. I'll address the drivers of this increase shortly. Our adjusted net asset value was $48.26 per share at September 30th and ended just under $50 at $49.98 yesterday. This is $1.12 higher than June 30th and $8.07 higher than the year-end 2022. Finally, the board declared a quarterly dividend of CAD 0.525 per share yesterday. Turning to page 10, Great-West strong performance across the segments, including an increase in year-over-year earnings from the U.S., Europe, and Capital and Risk Solutions, partly offset by Canada, but it should be noted that for Canada, the pre-tax earnings were up this quarter when we compare to the third quarter of 2022. The combination of recent acquisitions, operational improvements, and disciplined expense management has translated into solid results for Great-West this quarter. IGM earnings, they were consistent year-over-year and supported by strong performance from both IG Wealth and Mackenzie. Contributions from IGM's strategic investments included a year-over-year earnings increase from China Asset Management, CAMC, and decrease in its proportionate share of Great-West earnings. This was driven by IGM's partial sale of its Great-West shares in Q1 of this year, as well as a true-up related to the actual Q2 earnings disclosed by Great-West. Moving to GBL's contribution this quarter, Webhelp completed its previously announced combination with Concentrix. As you may recall, GBL had built a non-controlling interest liability over time related to put options extended to founders and management of Webhelp. As the fair value of Webhelp increased, GBL was required to recognize an accounting expense related to the fair value of these put rights. This totaled $1.2 billion at GBL. This liability was extinguished without any cash impact, and GBL recognized a meaningful gain on deconsolidation of EUR 1.3 billion, of which PCC share is recognized this quarter in the amount of $323 million. In other investments and standalone businesses, this quarter's results was comprised largely of interest on cash and cash equivalents. Finally, I'll highlight the corporate operating expense line, where this quarter we had a CAD 8 million loss from our cash-settled compensation liabilities versus a CAD 2 million gain in Q3 of 2022. Going forward, we would expect less volatility from this item due to the hedging actions that we have taken to date. I will now turn to page 11. We break down the CAD 48.26 net asset value as of September 30th. Great-West remains a large component of our NAV, and modest gains in its share price this quarter were more than offset by the impact of IGM's trading performance. I'll note that following the completion of the ADQ and BMO strategic partnership, where both parties acquired minority interest in Sagard Holdings Management, we have begun recording in our NAV, the Sagard Management company at its fair value. This, so this is NAV, this is not in the earnings, and the prior quarter's NAV was at carrying value. So we get a bump there in our NAV. With that, I will turn it back to Jeff. Thank you, Denis. So moving along to page 12, I'll just pick up a few highlights for the various companies. Great-West Lifeco has been putting emphasis with its communication with the markets to reflect its internal focus on building up its wealth management businesses. With the new disclosure that Great-West Lifeco has been doing around its value drivers, it highlights the size of the wealth business within Great-West Lifeco, and they are very focused on building that across their various geographies. In Canada, obviously, a couple of acquisitions, a small one with Value Partners, but also the IPC acquisition, which the closing is still pending, builds up their position and their breadth in wealth in Canada and makes a pretty loud statement about their commitment to the sector. In the U.S., Empower Personal Wealth is one of the key drivers of growth around that business, fed largely by the rollovers coming from the DC platform, but also there's a very important direct-to-consumer market there, and that business has grown 30% year-over-year and is now at $65 billion of AUA on the Empower Personal Wealth platform. In Europe, they've been making a number of moves, including in Ireland, with the launch of Unio Wealth and a new joint venture with AIB. Lots going on on the wealth side, and you'll hear more about that from Great-West Lifeco as we move forward. I'll turn to page 13. This is just a vignette, a snapshot of one element of a broader story. The broader story that we have been talking about, IG Management has been talking about, is that the IG Wealth platform, formerly known as Investors Group, has really undergone a very significant transformation over a number of years here. And we've talked about the difference in the recruiting model, the difference in the products, the pricing, the basically whole value proposition. Well, one element we haven't talked that much about is how much has been done on the technology front and on the platform that advisors and clients experience. And this is a snapshot out of the recent Investment Executive Dealers Report Card, and you can see in the upper left, the scores that the advisors at IG Wealth give IG have been continually improving over the last five years. And then you've got a relative positioning against some of the major dealers. The platform has really been digitized over the last five years in a significant way, and it's one of the great strengths, and the company continues to invest in its technology delivery for both advisors and for clients. On page 14, so just as I mentioned earlier, the ADQ and the BMO investment into Sagard was completed. So this will provide greater funds within the GP in order to invest as well as LP capital, and as part of Sagard's strategy to give itself greater strength, greater breadth. And that's important in what is a pretty challenging fundraising environment and is gonna be help them, I think, over the next couple of years, tremendously. I'll turn to page 15. This is just a slide you've seen before. Say, we continue to be active on the transactional front, notwithstanding the amount of time we focus on organic growth. We continue to look at external transactions to reposition the group for greater growth. And with that, I'll go to 16. So, in terms of the fundraising platforms, CAD 1.2 billion was raised in the quarter. $600 million was in Power Sustainable's launch of its U.S. Infrastructure Credit Fund. We got a great team that has been hired. Sagard Healthcare did an additional closing, and then the Power Sustainable Equity Infrastructure Partnership, which is a Canadian venture, had additional fund commitments. But notwithstanding that, the environment is difficult, and it's difficult not only on the fundraising side, but the deployment side is challenging as well. You'd all be aware there's less transactional activities, there's less M&A going on. We read about it all the time. That also means that investment managers and alternative investment managers are putting less capital to work than they would be in a more active environment. And of course, when you turn around and do your next fundraising and your next product, which adds AUM to your platform, you do that once you've deployed or mostly deployed the previous fund. So if you're deploying at a slower rate, it's not only fundraising that's slower, but your ability to go out and launch new products is lessened. So it's hard that our group is not alone in that. It's a factor across the industry. Page 17 just speaks to the ongoing financial results, and we've got Sagard at the top, which has got, had, from an FRE point of view, the third line, so CAD 42 million in fees, and is just operating slightly below the break-even level from an ongoing basis, and Power Sustainable making progress on the revenue side, but still ways to go before it is at a break-even point. And again, we talk about the overall AUM of our platforms being just under CAD 24 billion, but the fee bearing is the one that actually pays the bills, and we're at CAD 16.7 billion across them, the fee-bearing capitals. On page 18, our group has been active, returning capital to shareholders. We continued that through Q3, and post Q3, we've purchased CAD 452 million of shares. So far in the year, 12.6 million shares or 1.9% of the participating shares, and our cash position at the end of the quarter is CAD 1.2 billion. And that would be prior to having acquired the additional CAD 112 million in the, in the subsequent to the end of the third quarter. We do have a loose target of roughly two times fixed charges, including financial charges, that we like to keep on the, on the balance sheet, so that's about CAD 800 million. Our ratings continue to remain very strong with our principal rating agencies. Page 19. Power has delivered over the last five years, three years, 12 months, a strong relative returns compared to our principal benchmarks. It has been. So that is good. And that is notwithstanding what is on page 20, which is that our net asset value discount has gapped out in the past year and a bit, going back to the middle of 2022. So you know, we had worked hard through the period around the announcement of the reorganization, made good progress on decreasing the discount, and it has gapped out in the past 18 months. So I guess if I look at that from a glass-is-half-full point of view, we've delivered competitive returns, notwithstanding that we've had the last year and a half where the discount has gapped out. And so I view that as an opportunity. Having said that, this is on us. We've got to continue to communicate the value that we have in our different parts of our businesses and make sure that investors understand how that value is gonna translate into value for them. And so, we will continue to be highly focused on communication, as well as looking at our strategies to realize value to ensure that they meet with our investors' expectations. But that's gonna be a focus of our group, and an increased focus of our group, I suspect, in the quarters ahead. And then I'll just conclude and wrap it up on 21. The fundamental strategy hasn't changed in the last number of years. I will say that I am really, really pleased with the repositioning that has taken place at Great-West Lifeco and IGM over the last number of years. I think, you know, that's 80% of our gross asset value and a much higher percentage of the part of the portfolio that is earnings-based. And if I go back to 2019, prior to us announcing the reorganization, both... and then look today, both Great-West Lifeco and IGM have been significantly repositioned for growth. Great-West Lifeco, if you go back to 2019, going into the year, in the United States, had three businesses, being our insurance business, Empower and Putnam. Collectively, in 2018, they earned, I think, CAD 385 million, after tax. You've fast-forwarded to today. There's one business in the United States with the sale of our insurance business, the pending sale of Putnam, and the three acquisitions we did in Empower. In over the last couple of quarters, the U.S. business of Great-West has earned in excess of CAD 260 million a quarter. So you annualize that, compared to where we were four or five years ago, it's now 30% of the business of Great-West Life. It's one business. It's growing very strongly, organically, and there's still, as we move forward, potential future acquisitions. And so, and that's at the same time, the rest of the businesses of Great-West Life have been strengthened. So Great-West Life really repositioned over the last four or five years, and I would say equally with IGM. IGM has got two strong areas, wealth management, anchored by a repositioned IG Wealth, not the greatest environment today, but well-positioned for growth in the future. And then two other avenues with Rockefeller in the United States and Wealthsimple in Canada, and on the asset management, a very strongly positioned Mackenzie, with a large position in the Chinese market through ChinaAMC, and then with, and as well in the alternative asset management space. So IGM and Great-West are two principal assets, have been repositioned for significant growth. So then the focus comes to the 20% of the portfolio, which is NAV based, being GBL and across our different Power platforms. We've got good value there, and we're gonna double our efforts to communicate that and to make investors realize the value that we've got. With that, I will wrap up my comments, operator, and open it up to the audience or anyone who's got questions, and would be pleased to address them. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To join the question queue, you may press star, then one on your telephone keypad. You will hear a tone acknowledging your request. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing any keys. To withdraw your question, please press star, then two. We will pause for a moment as callers join the queue. Our first question comes from Geoff Kwan of RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Hi. My first question was on the alternatives platforms with Sagard and Power Sustainable. What kind of AUM do you think would kinda get you to scale or that level of profitability for each of them? But also too, just trying to understand how to think about OpEx growth at each of the platforms as you get to scale. Is it... You know, how does that grow? Is it you know, some sort of you know, OpEx ratio, or is it how does that OpEx growth compare to revenue growth, or how should we be thinking about that? Thank you. Hi, Geoff. Good question, and, I'll try not to be evasive, but it's, the answer is it depends. Yeah, if I look to Sagard, Actually, both of them, it depends on how you get the growth. So if you're, getting the growth by launching additional strategies in the same, buckets and the same categories, you scale them, and you get positive cash flow and earnings. And to the extent that you are launching new strategies, you go through a J curve, and the J curve is typically you're gonna lose money for two, three years in the particular strategy. So AUM, if you have got all the strategies you would like to have, and you're out there doing fund number two, number three, number four, in those strategies, you start to make a lot of money. Our platforms are at a stage where they are still building out their product suite, and you can imagine that that is something that makes you more enticing to investors. If you're walking in and you have one credit fund, and one category, that's, that's an interesting conversation. But if you have two or three different strategies around the same strategies, it might be lower credit, it might be an adjacency, you're more relevant to investors. So our group, Sagard is very close to break even. It's got a very good revenue base, but it continues to launch new products that are adjacent to its current product suite, which delays its break even, but ultimately creates greater value, two, three, four, five years down the road. So that's the trade-off. That's the discussion that we have all the time is that we're gonna build stronger, more valuable businesses over time if we enhance the suite of products, and that delays the break-even point. I'm not trying to avoid the question, but that is. That's what it's at. So if we try to, if we wanted to get to profitability. Here's before I turn it back to you, if we wanted to get to profitability quickly, we could just stop new product launches and kind of pair the OpEx growth that comes with that, and you get to profitability more quickly. But have you maximized value over a three, four, or five-year horizon? I don't think so. So I hope that helps. No, that's helpful. My other question was, looking at it at the corporate level, the OpEx there after adjusting for the share appreciation rights, in the past couple of quarters, so Q2 and Q3, I think have been roughly about CAD 40 million. And prior to that, I don't know, so I guess the past year a bit, that quarterly OpEx number was kind of in the low 30s-ish. So I'm just wondering, is that CAD 40 million kind of the new kind of OpEx figure? And if so, what explains the increase that we've seen? I'll let Denis handle it, but there's been, there is a little bit of noise around the edges that, Denis, you want to- Yeah, but I think Geoff is mentioning without the hedges, so just the CAD 41 million. I think that would be our new ongoing number that we would be looking at. It is a bit higher than last year. It is very consistent, though, with what we've seen during the year here. So there's been a bit of a jump from last year. There's inflation and, you know, we're in full travel mode and so on. Now, we're back to... We're really back to normal. So at CAD 41 million, I would look at that as being more of the ongoing number. That's pretty precise. That's 41.5. Yeah. Yeah. But you do and even the 32, we had some noise going the other way in some of the quarters, Denis. We had some noise going, and we have noise going, in this one also, there's a couple of million dollars that is not recurring in our expenses. So that's why I put it around CAD 40-42 million as an ongoing number. Yeah. I have by memory, we were at about CAD 150 million run rate annual, if you go back a couple of years. So if we're in around a little over CAD 160 million right now, there's been some inflationary growth, but we're not far off the mark in terms of the basic business model. Geoff hasn't changed. It's not like we built up a whole bunch of people or anything, but we do have extra travel, and we do have some inflation pressure going on, obviously. Okay, great. Thank you. Our next question comes from Graham Ryding of TD Securities. Please go ahead. Well, hi, good morning. Hi. Maybe I could just to touch on your your cash levels. You've been very active with your your buybacks, but your cash level is down a bit lower now compared to maybe where it was earlier in the year. So maybe just some color on how you're feeling about, you know, your discount to NAV, how much excess cash you feel like you have, and what's your appetite to continue to buy back shares? So how feeling about the discount is not great, is the honest answer, but it is what it is. And these things jump up and down. So that doesn't in any way diminish our conviction and enthusiasm to lower that discount over time. We're enthusiastic also to buy shares back, and the cash is a little bit lower as we've been active in the last several months, buying shares back. So, you know, we're gonna continue to look at share buybacks as one of the key tools to arb the discount and to lower the discount and create NAV. Of course, as we buy shares back at a discount, you're actually increasing the NAV as you do so. And in terms of our cash position, wouldn't make a specific comment other than you're right, it's lower. So, you know, we've got two things on that. It's not just... There's a number of things working. There's share buybacks. We have some commitments that we made to our platforms that sometimes some quarters were in inflows, some quarters we're putting money in to seed capital, so it's not kind of consistent. We'll be looking at our cash flows and our sources of cash in the upcoming quarters to figure out how we can continue to fund buybacks at a regular pace. That is the goal. That's what we said we're gonna do, and we'll do that. I wouldn't anticipate, you know, kind of a much higher level or a much lower level of buybacks in the upcoming periods, if that's where you're trying to get to with your question. Okay, that's helpful. I saw that you flagged that Sagard Asset Management Company, you're now holding it at fair value. Is that the CAD 270 million that you flagged within your NAV? And, like, am I looking at the right number there? And is that? Does that reflect your 55% ownership stake in Sagard? Yeah, that's exactly- Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. The 270 is our 54% share. Okay. In NAV. Yeah. Okay. And my last question, Jeff, just for you. Mark. I know you're always close with Empower. They did see some outflows, I think, in the quarter. Is that just, you know, a reflection of the headwinds on retail flows broadly in the industry? Or is that also maybe related to some attrition on some assets, just given, you know, the active acquisition activity that's been going on in the last couple of years on that platform? Perfect. Graham, that you just broke at one point. Did you say Empower? Is that what you were talking about? Yeah. Yeah. There was some outflows there, so just wanted some color on what's- Yeah. What you think is driving that? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So, there's, there is nothing systemic about that at all. Empower continues to win in the marketplace on an organic basis and is in strong inflows. So there's, there's a couple of things going on in the quarter, in particular, in the large market. There were some deconversions and no large wins that were brought on the platform, and some of those deconversions are related to the, the assets that have been brought on from Prudential. I think it would be better if they broke, though, the outflows from Prudential out, and it would give you a more normal number because-... You bring assets on and you have an attrition rate that, the company, I think, has published that they expect over a period of time that they're going to lose X% of the assets, and they do, but then they don't break them out of the flow number, so it kind of masks what's actually happening in the open market. But this quarter, in specifically addressing your question, in this quarter, it was in the large market. I think there were a number of deconversions, basically companies that were going to other platforms, no large wins, and it resulted in a blip in the large market sector, and a good part of that was related to Prudential. So nothing, the underlying message is no change in the confidence in the growth and in what's happening in the marketplace. Continued strong organic growth, and in terms of the actual Prudential conversion and retention of assets, they are ahead of what they had anticipated at the time that we underwrote the transaction. Okay. That's it for me. Thank you. You mentioned wealth management. I thought in your question, you mentioned wealth. This is a DC issue, not the wealth management. The wealth management is in strong inflows. Okay, understood. Yeah. Good. Thank you, Graham. Our next question comes from Jaeme Gloyn of National Bank Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks. First question, just apologies if I missed this, but the cadence on the dividend has suggested that next quarter we might see a little bit of a bump. Do you anticipate maintaining that cadence? And just refresh us on your dividend payout ratio targets or otherwise. Yeah. So I think this is the third quarter in a row that we've been at CAD 0.525, so we would have been in a cadence for the... It's the fourth? Denis, you're correcting me. Yes. Thank you. So, you know, we would follow our dividend policy as we follow the dividends that we receive from our principal operating subs, and the bulk of it, almost overwhelmingly, comes from Great-West Life and IGM. So we'll take our cues from Great-West Lifec o and IGM as to what they do with our dividends, and then we typically flow through the increase directly to shareholders. So, we'll. I don't see any reason. I'm not going to get ahead of the boards in terms of them declaring dividends in the future, but in overall expectation would be we'd do it on cycle in the ordinary course and see where our subs are on their dividends. So Great-West Life is the biggest part of it, and you mentioned our payout ratio. So we don't think of it at Power, first of all, as a payout ratio. We think of it as a flow-through on the dividends. When you look to Great-West Lifeco, I think they've been clear in their own communications that they see... They've given kind of medium-term objectives for earnings per share growth in the 8%-10% range. They also communicated, going back a couple of years ago, that the dividend payout ratio they were targeting was in the 45%-55% range. I think they're at the high end of that band right now. All things being equal, you would therefore expect that, if they're targeting around 50, you might see a little bit of the dividend growth may lag the earnings growth a little bit. I mean, that's a logical conclusion, but it's not a big deal. Like, if they're at 54 and they're targeting the center of the range around 50, you might expect a little bit of lagging on the growth and the dividend over the next few years. That's... So that's everything I can tell you about our dividend payout ratio. I would expect it to continue to happen in the ordinary course. Yeah. Great. Thank you. In terms of GBL, and we don't dig into this often enough, but I'm just curious. Not a, not a great market for monetizations necessarily in North America, and curious to get your take on the European market or, or you know, any specific themes or asset classes within the GBL portfolio. You know, some nice gain, obviously, from Webhelp this this quarter, and just looking to get a a broad take on on what you're seeing over there at the GBL portfolio. Yeah, I mean, I think the themes are consistent. They are continuing to move into more private, and less public, and so realizations on the public side are less of an issue than they would be if you're in a private equity business. And so that's one theme. I think investments they've made, from everything I see, they've done a couple of large healthcare acquisitions, and those are panning out well, but they're early days. So that side of their business is doing well. But there's nothing particular from a liquidity point of view, that's different in the European market than we see in the North American market. And again, a lot of their portfolio is listed and are liquid. So liquidity is not necessarily the issue there. Got it. And then lastly, as we're looking at Sagard on a fair value perspective, are there some key investments in the Sagard portfolio, like Portage or private equity, that we should be zeroing in on to just sort of get ahead of what those movements in fair value could be on a quarter-to-quarter basis? Or, you know, some broader macro indicators that would help to sort of guide how that moves on a quarterly basis as well. Well, the fair value that we gave at the NAV is really the fair value of the management company. It's not the investments, the LP investments themselves. So this is- ... This was the valuation of the management company following the investment by ADQ and BMO. So it is only tied to the stream of management fees that the management company is getting. Yeah. So you think about it, and we do think about it, they're, they're related, but they're different. So we have an asset manager, which is what we report on when we do the FRE, and then we show you the carry. And that is where ADQ, BMO, and also Canada Life put in some more investment as part of that as well. And that round of equity raise at the asset manager level gave rise to a mark, which allowed us to market in our books the way we have this quarter. Then we have the seed capital that Power invests in Sagard and in Power Sustainable, and that's a little over CAD 2 billion, and that's a myriad of investments. I haven't counted how many different strategies, but it's across the spectrum, from VC, Fintech to, you know, debt funds, private equity, infrastructure. It's across the board. Basically, most of the strategies of which there would be 20, I'm guessing there's... If you add it up somewhere, it's in the 20s. You know, we're typically a lead seed investor as they're launching products, so that would be a long question to on-- I don't think you're asking the question on our LP investments as a seed investor, because that's just a broad base across the portfolios. Yeah, no, that- Does that answer your- Um. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, totally. Thank you. Okay, great. Thank you. Our next question comes from Nik Priebe of CIBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Okay, thanks. Just on slide 16 of the presentation, there's still CAD 2.3 billion of Power Corporation's proprietary capital invested across that alternative asset management business. The proportion of third-party AUM has grown over time, so do you foresee that commitment declining further over time, or is CAD 2.3 billion, roughly speaking, consistent with what your expectation would be for the long run commitment to that platform? Just some updated thoughts on capital intensity of the asset manager would be great. Thank you, Nik. That's a great question. And we've been explicit in our communication with the market and our communication with both Sagard and Power Sustainable, that Power was not looking to put more net new capital into the LPs, into our, into our LP positions. We were looking for those for the two platforms to grow using capital away from Power. So the CAD 2.3 billion is roughly the same as what it was when we launched the strategies or when we, we changed the strategy four years ago. It was right around a little over CAD 2 billion. And our plan going forward is not to see that increase, is to recycle it. Now, it doesn't go in a straight line, so sometimes you've got four funds that are being launched over two quarters, and you don't have a lot of realizations, and you're net, net adding CAD 200 million, I'm, I'm making up the numbers here, over a couple of quarters. And then you go a couple of quarters where you're getting realizations and you're getting capital back. But roughly speaking, we're expecting that at this point to stay in the low 2s and hoping that the bars on page five are not, not dark blue under the funded AUM bar there, where you've got the 16.8, that that gray 14.5 continues to grow and the 2.3 stays just about where it is. As we do that, then the GP fee-related earnings should grow and ultimately get to profitability. We don't have a lot of comments on Sagard, you know, when's it getting to break even, and those are good questions. But the fact is that it was not a very big business going back four years ago, and we just had some third-party investors come in and validate a value that we've marked the GP now up to CAD 270 million. Our share. Our share. So, you know, that's evidence of value creation, and it's been done with other people's capital. So, that's the way I'd answer the question. Got it. Okay, that's very clear. And then with the sale of the minority interest in Sagard being completed in the quarter, have any of the proceeds been upstreamed to the holding company, or where would that reside in terms of its geography on the NAV schedule? It would be in the 270. The investors bought into Treasury, and they didn't buy... Power Corp didn't sell any shares, and that would stay in the GP, and the GP would use that to build out its business, including potential other strategies or acquisitions that they might want to make. Understood. Okay, that's it for me. Thanks very much. Okay, thank you. Our next question comes from Tom MacKinnon of BMO Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks very much. So just to be clear, with respect to the movement in the Sagard on the NAV schedule from 970 to 1,244, the 970 was a carrying value number reflecting your 78.5% ownership, and the 1,244 is a fair value reflecting your 54.5% ownership. Do I have that correct, then? No, I think you're good. These, these are the LP, these, these are the assets, the proprietary capital that you're looking at. It's the... With, with the transaction, we're really looking at the asset manager itself. The CAD 270 million, that went up from, something like CAD 60 million last year to CAD 270 million. Last year was carried at book value?... and this year we marked it at fair value. But the, the other numbers that you're quoting are, the asset, the asset that we're holding- The LP. The LP. LP, uh- Yeah, think of it, think of it, Tom, is that we—when we launched the strategy or when we announced the new strategies two years ago, we had about CAD 2 billion invested under Sagard and under Power Sustainable in investments in different funds and different strategies. Most of those were—a lot of those were just for our own account. We were the only investor. We launched these businesses, and we have, with the goal of making the asset manager, the general partner, the GP, more valuable. And the GP has been marked up in the case of Sagard from roughly CAD 60 million previously to 270, and that is as a result of third-party investors coming in and validating the value of the asset manager. And the asset manager is- Okay. Yeah. That's what we report. So- The 970 movement in Sagard, quarter-over-quarter to 1,244, what's that? What's driving that movement, then? I don't see the 1,244. I see the 974. Yeah. Yeah, in your second quarter, you had in your NA adjusted NAV statement, you had second quarter for Sagard, you had it at 970 in that NAV statement. That was on page six of your second quarter press release, and then page six of your third quarter press release, you have Sagard at 1.244. So what drove that increase? Ah, okay. The 1.244 is— The 1.244, I see it now. It's at CAD 974 of the investing activities, plus the management company of CAD 270. So if you look at— it's a lot clearer if you look at our MD&A on page 862. It is clearly divided into the asset management company, CAD 270, and the investing activities of CAD 974. Yeah. Okay. So, Tom, on that summary page, we combine the LP investments with the GP value on that summary page, and most of the growth in that CAD 977-CAD 244 will come from the markup on the GP. But as you say, you get it broken down. What page is it on the MD&A? Eight sixty-two. A 62, you get it broken down between what's the LP investments and what's the GP value. Yeah. So that, and that 270, sorry, just was in the area of... What was that in the second quarter? Six quizzes. In the second quarter, it would have been about 160, sir. Well, it was 60 at the end of the year, and it did not really move. This is a book value. This is a book value figure. It was. It was a book value figure. Yeah. Okay. So really, the 200 movement is the markup. Is that- Yeah. That's, uh- Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's it. That's- Okay, so now you've got the CAD 270 sitting at fair value then, and before you had it at a carrying value, right? Yeah. Understood. Is the—and if I look at the treatment of the CAD 1.37 billion that you have for Power Sustainable that sits on this statement, is that a fair—is what do we have on that? Is there any carrying value, fair value? Is that kinda held the same way you've got it for Sagard, or is there any- Well- difference there in terms of the treatment of that number? Yeah. Okay. So there's a difference here with Sagard. The 10 is a book value figure. We have not marked up to fair value Power Sustainable yet, because we don't have a... We are waiting for a third-party confirmation, say, on the transaction to mark it up to fair value. So the 10 is more similar to the 60 of last year in Sagard. You'd have to go back to the MD&A, and you will find Power Sustainable, the GP is valued at CAD 10 million. Which is its book value. The rest, so the CAD 1.37 billion, the bulk of it is our LP investments. Correct. Okay. All right, thanks for that. Appreciate you walking me through that piece. And maybe just one other quick numbers question, the EUR 1.276 billion that GBL made in the quarter, if I multiply that by your 15.5% ownership and the euro to Canadian dollar rates that you disclose, I get something in around CAD 288 million, yet you've got a CAD 315 million contribution from that. Is there something that I'm missing here, or was there something else that would have made that calculation? Well, just their earnings also and there's other earnings in GBL. The gain itself will yield CAD 323 million. That's at 15%, and I would say an exchange rate of something like 1.5. But there's other activity in GBL that will lead to the figure that you're getting. No, not just the gain, the EUR 1.276 billion that they re-reported as earnings. Correct. The 1.276, if you simply took 15% of that at the exchange rate, at the average exchange rate for the quarter, you should get to our figure. Okay. I didn't. Sorry. Maybe I'll take that one offline. Just, just... Okay, thanks, but there's no other noise other than multiplication of two figures, one being 15.5, and one being the 1.458 exchange rate that you guys disclose in the report. That should, by definition- That should do it. That should do it? That should do it. Okay. We'll have to have that arithmetic discussion offline then. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you, Tom. Once again, if you have a question, please press star, then one. Our next question comes from Doug Young of Desjardins Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Good morning. Hopefully, these will be a few quick ones. I don't want to beat a horse to death here, but just a few additional ones on Sagard, and I kind of get the fair value versus carrying value. But I guess my question is twofold. I mean, how do you derive fair value? I assume you're going to do that every quarter. Is it off assets? Is it off just cash flow? Just trying to understand that. And then, you know, Jeff, maybe as you look out over the next few years, and I understand how the mechanics are going to work in terms of driving towards breakeven, but what's the proper margin for this business? Can I go on? Well, on the valuation, I think we're gonna. It is really done on a cash flow basis, projected cash flows and, discounted back. To do it every quarter, I don't think it's going to be done every quarter. It's more something that we would do yearly and on a quarterly basis, just ensure that there's no major change, but we would probably keep, we will probably keep the value constant throughout the quarters until year end, unless something major has occurred. And Doug, I'm gonna defer on your question on margin, because I can talk about where asset managers get to when they're mature, but I don't want to offer a margin, and I'm not trying to be evasive, but I already mentioned in the question, how quickly do we get to breakeven? Depends on external factors, depends on how the AUM grows, let alone the company's still a fair ways away from full maturity. So I'm gonna defer on that, and maybe we can have a more informed discussion where I don't want to mislead anybody in terms of putting out a number there and having everybody expect it. Because we're still at a pretty early stage of development with these businesses, even though that doesn't mean we're not... I think the most important thing I can say is we had some very sophisticated third-party investors come in and say, this business is worth money, even though it's not yet breaking even. So, Doug, if that's all right, I'm not gonna offer a margin at this point. No, it's fair. And then just, I know it's early days and, you know, you had a transaction. Just try to go through. I'm trying to think about the evolution of carried interest, and, you know, I, I understand how the mechanics work down the road and when it kicks in. Do you share the carried interest in all the existing products with these investors? Like, they, they would get full ownership of everything that's in the pipeline. Is that correct? You're not leaving some with yourselves- No. and only on new product launches, like just... Yeah. So no. So the way the business works is that we've got a GP, and the owners of the GP, which includes Power, includes, at this point, ADQ, BMO, and Canada Life, and it includes management through up-through ownership of GP, some of which is awarded to them, and others of which they put up cash and buy shares, okay? So those are the shareholders, and they share in all of the fee-related earnings, which are basically your annual fees, whether it's anywhere from 75 basis points to, you know, 2 percentage points on an equity fund. And then, the carry is awarded, as it is in the industry, the carry points are awarded, and those are mixed between the investment management teams that are working on their specific strategies. The management team at the top of Sagard would get those points, and then Power... I shouldn't say Power, excuse me. All of the GP shareholders would share in the, in the carry points. So you'd have carry, you know, on an equity fund, you got 20% carry. It'll, it'll be lower as you move down into fixed income. That carry has got points attached to it, and the GP is, has a good chunk of that carry. It's, and, and that is shared equally amongst the GP shareholders. I don't know if that was clear. No, that's clear. It's just like some- Very standard. We would look like- Yeah. we would look like the other alternative asset manager, by the way. Yeah -on the planet, I think, on that one. Yeah. Yeah. And Denis, I guess, on GBL, any additional noise on Webhelp? Like, that's done, I assume. Like, we're not gonna have any further adjustments going forward. No, it's all done. It is finally done, I would say. But we do own equity in the, We do own equity in the merged company. Yeah. But the transaction is closed. But the transaction noise is done. Okay, and then just, you know, the cash- Yeah. But the puts are behind us. The puts, yes. Yeah, that's... Okay. And then- You notice, I wanna... Doug, I wanna say, you know, we haven't crowed on the big gain because, we for the last two, three years, we've been saying, you know, we had a put liability that hurt our net income, but, you know, it's just a put liability. It's because the value went up on Webhelp, and so we're not crowing about the reversal either, because it's, it is what it is. It's just the reversal of a bunch of pain that we unfortunately had to go through, and there are no put liabilities left on these investments, so. Correct. No, no, I get that. And then, just lastly, the cash down quarter-over-quarter, you know, I guess we went through some mechanics. It just looked lower than what we would have thought. And I get the buybacks. You know, you get some cash in from Bellus. Doesn't seem like the cash from the Sagard went up to the holdco. Is there anything else unusual? It sounds like maybe there was just some funding of some Sagard products. Yeah. I think that's right. I think we've got. As I was trying to say earlier, even though, on the earlier question about are we increasing our LP investments? And we're not. The explicit goal is to keep them flat and have third party, third parties grow, the AUM. But that doesn't mean that we're not seeding new strategies. And the seeding comes from, over time, realizations that come out of the existing strategies, but it's not a straight line. And we'll go through a few quarters where all of a sudden we're net cash out, and other quarters we're net cash in. It's kind of lumpy, so we don't want to take. So that's it. We just have to manage that, but the goal is to keep it flat. So, so that's effectively it. If you think about it, we take dividends up from our three public subs. We pay our expenses, we pay a lot of that out in dividends, and then we have realizations and reinvestments into the seed capital, and hopefully, and then we've got other assets that we monetize. That's the equation, but quarter to quarter, it's it can be a little lumpy. Perfect. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions, so this concludes the conference call for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect your lines.