Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Baloise IFRS 17/ 9 transition information analyst audio webcast and conference call. I am Sandra, the call's call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode and the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing star one on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press star then zero. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Markus Holtz, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you. Good morning, welcome to Baloise conference call on our IFRS 17/ 9 transition information. On our call today, we have our designated Group CEO, Michael Müller, and our Group CFO, Carsten Stolz. With that, I would like to hand over to you, Michael, for some introductory remarks. Thank you very much. Dear ladies and gentlemen, I am happy to welcome you together with Carsten Stolz, our Group CFO, to today's presentation about our accounting transition from IFRS 4 and IAS 39 to IFRS 17 and 9. As I will be taking over the responsibility as the Group CEO at the beginning of July, we thought that today's presentation is a good moment to meet you all. Ladies and gentlemen, please hold the line. We'll have connections with the speakers. Ladies and gentlemen, please hold the line. Ladies and gentlemen, the connection with the speaker has been set up again. Please go ahead, gentlemen. Yeah, sorry for the delay. We will welcome you again. Good morning, and welcome to our conference call on our IFRS 17/ 9 transition information. In our call today, we have our designated Group CEO, Michael Müller, and our Group CFO, Carsten Stolz. With that, I would like to hand over to you, Michael, for some introductory remarks. Thank you, Markus. Dear ladies and gentlemen, I am happy to welcome you together with Carsten Stolz, our Group CFO, to today's presentation about our accounting transition from IFRS 4 and IAS 39 to IFRS 17 and 9. As I will be taking over the responsibility as the Group CEO at the beginning of July, we thought that today's presentation is a good moment to meet you all. While the changes following the introduction of IFRS 17 and 9 have no direct impact on our underlying business, financial reporting is an important instrument of how our business is perceived from a capital market perspective. It is important for us to provide our perspective on the transition impact during the meeting today. This transition has been a major effort, not only for us, but also for the entire industry, no doubt. I want to thank all people involved at Baloise, working hard hours over the past years to make it possible. Besides the effort, it is clear that the standards will evolve, that practices are yet to emerge in the market, and comparability is, by nature, at the beginning, difficult. It is aggravating for Baloise that the transition moment is within a year like 2022, of financial turmoil and historic interest rates movements. The meaningfulness of these numbers for just one reporting year are somewhat limited. Nonetheless, we will explain the shifts of result streams due to the new classification. We at Baloise will learn and adopt alongside the industry and did our best to provide you with meaningful financial information and KPI. We will, with our Simply Safe strategy, even more focus on operational excellence in the following years, a key strength of Baloise for many decades. Operational excellence and also sharpening our focus around cost is key for our cash generation today and tomorrow. I am proud of what Baloise has achieved over the past decade, and I am certain that we will deliver an excellent service to our clients, and to our dear shareholders, provide strong cash flow stemming from a solid and future-proof insurance business. On March 9th, 2023, we shared first aspects of the application of IFRS 17/ 9 with you. Today, we inform you about our transition to IFRS 17/ 9, based on unaudited and preliminary figures for the opening balance sheet and the comparative period, 2022. After one, a brief introduction and some key messages, we will look on a consolidated level at two, the opening balance sheet, and three, at profit and loss, OCI and CSM. We will continue with a look at four, the life business, and five, the Non-Life business on the business segment level. Finally, we will look at our group key performance indicators, KPIs, before rounding up with concluding remarks. First of all, the IFRS 17/ 9 figures confirm the high economic value and balance sheet strength. Comprehensive equity, that means the sum of equity and of the post-tax CSM, is 70% larger than the IFRS 4 equity as at year-end 2022, and amounts to CHF 169 per share at transition. The CSM, that means the future profit pool from our life business, is substantial and stands at CHF 5.4 billion at year end 2022. The timing of profits and the allocation between profit and loss of OCI and CSM changes. In Non-Life, the comparative earnings value for 2022 has been strongly negatively affected by 2022 specifics, effects, and prohibition impact. More detail. Cash remittance and business economics are, all other things being equal, not affected by IFRS. This particularly holds true for our dividend policy, and for 2023, we are confident to expect a strong cash remittance again. With this, I would like to hand over to Carsten. Thank you, Michael. The nature of insurance is shock absorption. Thus, insurance is, by its very nature, a balance sheet business. IFRS 17 and 9 shows how market value changes equal to shock, or maybe better volatility absorption, ultimately affects shareholders' equity. On the asset side, there are more market value-based valuations and reduced accounting mismatches. Reducing accounting mismatches has been one of our key design principles when implementing the two new standards, and that is why we classified assets backing the life business predominantly as fair value through profit or loss. Whereas, we classified assets backing the Non-Life business, mainly as fair value through OCI. Let me highlight two aspects on the asset side. Fixed interest securities are valued by CHF 1.3 billion higher, mainly since formerly held to maturity classified bonds are now valued at fair value. The introduction of the expected credit loss method had a small effect of CHF 33 million, reflecting the quality of our bond portfolio. By and large, there are no material changes on the asset side. On the liability side, there is a contractual service margin of CHF 6.0 billion at transition, included in the insurance contract liabilities. The CSM is reflecting the future profit pool of the life insurance portfolio. In addition, the reserves of CHF 4 billion for financial contracts with discretionary participation features, DPF, are now also shown under insurance contract liabilities, and no longer, as previously, together with the liabilities from financial contracts. As a result, insurance contract liabilities rise from CHF 43.6 billion to CHF 52.1 billion. Liabilities from financial contracts go down from CHF 26.9 to CHF 21.9. Equity reduces from CHF 7.3 billion to CHF 4.2 billion at transition. Under IFRS 17/ 9, shareholders' equity and the contractual service margin have to be looked at in conjunction. The sum of equity and CSM post-tax under IFRS 17/ 9 is, at transition, by 24% larger than equity under IFRS 4. Moving from CHF 7.3 billion equity under IFRS 4 to CHF 4.2 billion under IFRS 17/ 9, apart from the separation of the CSM, there are CHF 1.3 billion positive revaluation effects stemming from IFRS 9. Mainly, the aforementioned reclassification of HTM bonds. CHF 1.0 billion positive revaluation effects stemming from IFRS 17, mainly due to the impact of discounting in IFRS 17/ 9, and differences between the valuation frameworks. CHF 0.6 billion positive effects from deferred taxes, which results from the revaluations and the build-up of the CSM. After tax, CSM amounts to CHF 4.8 billion, leading to a comprehensive equity of CHF 9.0 billion at the moment of transition. Solvency does not change. Risk-bearing capital under SST is larger than comprehensive equity, and this is due to valuation differences and the different treatment of subordinated debt. Due to the CSM, there is improved transparency about future profits and more consistent valuation of assets and liabilities in the life business. A few minutes ago, I spoke about the volatility absorption nature of the insurance balance sheet, and that market value movements, even if temporary in nature, ultimately affect equity. Under IFRS 4, the big market movements in interest rates, equities, spreads, and foreign exchange rates in 2022 led to a reduction in equity under IFRS 4 by 37%. Looking at comprehensive equity, the impact of market movements was only 14%. This demonstrates that under IFRS 17/9, there are less accounting mismatches in comparison to IFRS 4 and IAS 39. Let's now move from the balance sheet to the earnings perspective. Under IFRS 17/9, looking at profit and loss must be complemented with looking at OCI and at CSM. A more comprehensive income view needs to be taken. Changing accruals-based accounting, thus, all other things being equal, not alter the profit pool of the business. From now on, the earnings perspective requires a close look at the profit and loss statement, at other comprehensive income, and at the contractual service margin. These are the three pipelines through which value creation flows. What alters under IFRS 17/9 is the timing of P&L profits, in conjunction with value creation materializing through the other two valves. Thus, understanding the interplay between these three valves is paramount under IFRS 17/9. There is slicing because of the accruals principle of accounting, and there is dicing because of the three value pipelines. The dicing between P&L, OCI, and CSM can vary in any given periods. In life, IFRS 17/9 leads due to the nature of our life books being predominantly variable fee to the compulsory contractual service margin. While movements have gone through P&L and OCI under IFRS 4, these movements go through the CSM and are earned over time through the release of CSM in the P&L. This implies that the CSM is the main value valve from now on. It is the nature of the new standards that many bookings in the life business are non-cash or unrealized valuation movements. Local accounting and cash remittance are not affected by this. As mentioned earlier, reduction of accounting mismatches has been one of our design principles. As a consequence, we chose to newly classify equities as fair value through OCI and Non-Life. This means there will be no recycling for equities anymore, and as a result, a systematic shift of positive earning streams into OCI. Under IFRS 9, fixed income instruments that fail the SPPI test and investment funds shift from OCI to P&L. These effects were particularly strong in 2022. While our IFRS 4 accounting treated Non-Life reserves undiscounted, we newly have discounting effects in both the OCI and in the P&L. OCI effects will be due to changes in current interest rates for the in-force business. P&L effects, on the other hand, will be due to changes in locked-in rates for in-force business and change in current interest rates for the new business. As for the life business, it is the nature of the new standards that many bookings in Non-Life business are non-cash or unrealized valuation movements. Local accounting and cash remittance in Non-Life are also not affected by this. Let us now look at what this means for the restatements of the financial year 2022. The variable fee approach is the dominating new measurement model in life. 81% of our liabilities are VFA, while 19% are general measurement model, exclusively in Belgium. In line with this, 95% of our life insurance assets are classified as fair value through profit or loss. VFA implies that the CSM release is the main annual value valve from now on. The timing of profits is changed with improved visibility and predictability of profit emergence. The CSM release of CHF 154 million at half year, and CHF 303 million at full year, points to increased earnings predictability, and this implies a release ratio of 5.3% for the financial year 2022. Since a large part of non-cash, non-realized temporary market movements are absorbed in the balance sheet through CSM or OCI, EBIT in Life is expected to be more stable. The position other, contains, in particular, the non-attributable cost of the Life business. The comparatively lower EBIT, CHF 377 million under IFRS 4, and CHF 261 million under IFRS 17/9, stems from the fact that reserve releases under IFRS 4, due to higher interest rates, are now recognized through the CSM and spread over the remaining lifetime of the contracts. The contractual service margin stands at CHF 5.4 billion at year-end 2022. Due to the low interest level at the beginning of 2022, the discount unwinding effect has been not material in the restatement period. It is expected to be larger for this year. New business CSM contributed CHF 0.2 billion. Variances amounted to CHF 0.5 billion, mainly driven by higher credit spreads and negative stock market performance in 2022. The financial markets showed particularly strong movements in 2022. Thus, in a, quote, unquote, "normal year", we expect less impact from economic variances in the CSM. CHF 0.3 billion stem from the CSM release of the in-force book. Let's now look at Non-Life. Non-Life is entirely measured with the premium allocation approach, PAA. Consistent with our design principle of avoiding accounting mismatches and reducing non-cash, non-realized valuation volatility in the P&L, 67% of our Non-Life insurance assets are classified fair value through OCI. The major part of the fair value through profit or loss classified assets are investment property that do not fall under IFRS 9, but under IAS 40. As the restated EBIT for half year 2022 stands at a comparable level of CHF 140 million, compared to CHF 162 million under IFRS 4, and is more or less as expected. I do not go in the details here and move directly to the EBIT for full year 2022, which requires more explanation. Restated full year 2022 EBIT is significantly lower than IFRS 4, reflecting primarily 2022 specific effects and transition impacts. As in half year 2022, insurance revenue in full year 2022 was comparable. Insurance service expenses were negatively affected by inflation-driven reserve strengthening. We mentioned inflation-driven reserve strengthening already when presenting our annual results under IFRS 4 in March this year. In moving to IFRS 17, the mentioned offsetting effects between reserve strengthening and discounting, which we had under IFRS 4, thanks to reserve releases, do not flow through P&L, but instead go through OCI, respectively, directly through equity in the opening balance sheet. For full year 2022, insurance service expenses are larger than the claims and costs in IFRS 4, despite positive discount effects in IFRS 17 and 9. The insurance finance result is mainly impacted by the reclassification of equities from available for sale under IAS 39 to fair value through OCI under IFRS 9. Insurance finance income and expenses is a new line in the Non-Life P&L, that is directly linked to the discounting of Non-Life reserves. It represents, in particular, the unwinding of the discount effect. Other income and expenses is higher due to shifts in cost allocation of around CHF 100 million between technical result and other income and expenses. We acknowledge that the P&L accounting restatement of the Non-Life EBIT for full year 2022 is significant. Due to 2022 specific effects and transition impacts, we consider it appropriate to take an adjusted view at the restated EBIT number. This slide details the 2022 specific effects equaling to CHF 130 million, as well as the transition effects of CHF 85 million. The transition effects relate mainly to the reclassification of equities from available for sale to fair value through OCI. This alone explains CHF 76 million of the movement. Let me detail the 2022 specific events of CHF 137 million, one by one. In 2022, we adjusted our claims reserves for inflation. When presenting our annual results under IFRS 4 in March this year, we specified that EBIT and the combined ratio were negatively impacted by reserve strengthening due to inflation, partially offset by reserve releases. In moving to IFRS 17, the offsetting effects do not flow through P&L, but instead go through OCI, and therefore no longer contribute to P&L, respectively, move to best estimate, and thus go directly to equity in the opening balance sheet. This means that CHF 120 million inflation-driven reserve strengthening fully impacts Non-Life EBIT in the restatements. We do not expect inflation spikes like 2022 moving forward. The discounting effects represent a net of CHF 31 million. This effect is composed of positive discounting effects from reserving of the accident year 2022, in the insurance service result, in the amount of CHF 71 million. Negative discounting effects, mainly due to the discount unwind in insurance finance income and expected expenses of - CHF 40 million. The interest rate-driven decrease in market value of fixed income, a compulsory IFRS 9 effect, as already mentioned, amounts to CHF 23 million. CHF 25 million represent other 2022 specific effects, respectively, effects related to first-time application of the two new standards. Due to these 2022 specific events, although headline EBIT is CHF 99 million on a restated basis, the adjusted EBIT points to a level of CHF 237 million. The combined ratio moves from 91.9% to 92.9% from the 2022 related effects and transition impacts. Taking the aforementioned effects into account, the combined ratio stands at 91.6%. We newly apply a net gross definition for the combined ratio. Our combined ratio is now directly linked to the line items in the Non-Life P&L. Due to the move to the new definition, the loss ratio increases and the cost ratio decreases. The positive effect from discounting new claims from the accident year 2022, amounts to about 1.8 percentage points in combined ratio. Together, with a negative effect of about 3 percentage points from inflation-driven reserve strengthening, the restated combined ratio stands at 91.6%. Both effects are reflected in the insurance service result. In summary, the restated profit level for 2022 is lower, but more long-term and stable in life. Contractual service margin is substantial, with CHF 5.4 billion at year-end 2022. After considering the restatement effects in Non-Life, the adjusted view on profit for 2022 amounts to CHF 343 million. It needs to be noted that 2022 had a particularly high implied tax rate of around 30%, which we did not adjust for, which we did assume to come down to around 20% moving forward. The implied return on equity in the restated numbers, is equal to the return on equity under IFRS 4 at a level of 9.4%. Solvency and local accounting remain unchanged. Cash is unaffected, there is no change to the strategic ambition to remit CHF 2 billion in the years 2022 to 2025. To finish off, we would like to take a short look on our key performance indicators. Earnings per share, on an adjusted view basis, stands at CHF 7.6. CSM is a new indicator signaling the future profit pool of the Life book. Revenue in Non-Life is very similar to the notion of gross written premiums under IFRS 4. Dividend and cash payout are unaffected. The same applies for SST and S&P rating. Also unaffected is the revenue from our innovation portfolio. We continue to deliver against our financial commitments. Cash remittance has already been mentioned. Combined ratio stands at an adjusted level of 91.6%. Life EBIT stands at CHF 261 million. Cash payout has already been mentioned, and cost efficiencies have not changed. All of this forms the basis for continued and consistent shareholder cash returns. By moving accounting to IFRS 17/ 9, the economic value and balance sheet strength remain high. Timing of profits changes. Cash remittance, targets, and dividend policy are unchanged. We expect for 2023, again, a strong cash remittance. We would like to move to the Q&A session of today's IFRS 17/ 9 transition meeting, and Michael and myself will be happy to take on your questions and engage into a dialogue on Baloise's transition from IFRS 4, IAS 39 to IFRS 17 and 9. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Questioners on the phone are requested to use only handsets and eventually turn off the volume of the webcast. Anyone with a question may press star and one at this time. The first question comes from Simon Fössmeier from Vontobel. Please go ahead. Good morning, and thank you for this presentation. Welcome to the new CEO, to the evil world of analysts. I got two questions. The first is on slide 18, the CSM walk. I think the confusion of the market is that as an analyst, I expected that the new business CSM would be larger than the release, and with that, over time, the CSM would grow. You're not the only one, not the only insurer where this doesn't occur. In a normal year, I think it is fair to say that 2022 was a particularly challenging year because of the capital markets developments. I absolutely don't know how to forecast the three items, the new business CSM and the economic variances. I think the CSM release is easier. You're guiding to 5.3%, and can I assume that this will remain unchanged? That's the first question. The second question is, would you disclose the percentage of onerous contracts? This would be my two questions. Thank you. Simon, thank you, and good morning. Welcome to the IFRS 17/ 9 world, where we are all new to and start to learn. I happily take the question on CSM and onerous contracts. In thinking together the release with the addition from new business, I think it's certainly the right perspective in the longer term. The CSM release of the 5.3% of the CHF 300 million that we disclosed is expected to be relatively stable and predictable because of the CSM mechanism. The new business added in a particular year obviously depends on what business has been underwritten, and therefore is a reflection of the underwriting strategy in the life business that we are pursuing. I think it's fair to say that we are cautious on underwriting life business, both in the individual life as well as in the group life business. It's worth to mention also that the expected business contribution stemming from the unwinding, in our case is calculated not with real-world rates. That is why I made the statement that we would expect this to be higher into the future. To your second question with regard to the percentage of onerous contracts, it is very small, not material. Great. Thanks a lot. Thank you, Simon. The next question comes from Nasib Ahmed from UBS. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for taking my question. Firstly, on the removal of prudence from the liabilities, I can see you don't have an offset from the inflation reserve charge. If I look at slide eight, your insurance contract liabilities haven't really reduced under IFRS 17. If you're removing prudence, I would have thought that the CHF 6.9 would have reduced. That's the first question. Second question on reserve releases. On slide 17, you've got CHF 96 million for full year 2022. I think I remember from the full year 2022 presentation on IFRS 4, you had CHF 64 million. Just trying to check what the difference is? Finally, on the expected loss of CHF 33 million, do you expect this to unwind over time? The question here is: Are the expected losses that you've experienced in the past lower than what you're assuming in the CHF 33 million? Thank you. Thank you, Ahmed, for your three questions. We start with the your first question. Just repeating and being sure that I got it right, on slide eight, with regard to the level of Non-Life insurance contract liabilities, there is a couple of offsetting effects in there in moving from the old world to the new world. On the one hand, the discounting effects, which are reducing the net present value of the Non-Life insurance liabilities. On the other hand, there is the new element of risk adjustments and loss component, which increase the Non-Life liabilities that are accounted for on the liability side, and some other offsetting effects. By and large, this leads to the effect that the CHF 6.9 stands at a comparative level to the old world. Your second question on slide 17. I just need to make sure that I got your question right. Your question was on slide 17, referring to the reserve releases in Life in 2022. Those were interest rate-driven reserve releases that under IFRS 4 had an impact on P&L and went through P&L, and that under IFRS 17/ 9, because they are interest rate-driven, do not go through P&L anymore, the effect of which has been CHF 96 million in moving from the old world to the new world. Your third question on the expected loss, could you please repeat your question, which so that I'm sure that I understood you correctly? Sure. The expected loss under IFRS 17, I think, is CHF 33 million. Does it come back, does it unwind in the investment return line? Because your actual losses historically have been lower than IFRS 17. Is that an assumption I can make, or is that expected loss a best estimate level of expected loss? You're referring to the impact of the introduction of the expected credit loss method of CHF 33 million, right? Correct. Yep. Yeah, yeah. In a stable environment, this will not move, and it just reflects the credit worthiness of the portfolio. When there is shifts, then this would adjust. It is basically a value-adjusting mechanism to value the bond portfolio. Given the quality of our bond portfolio, we would not expect this to play a material role into the future, albeit we have to account for, because it's just a new standard that requires us to do so. Perfect. Thank you. Very helpful. Yeah. Thank you for your questions, Ahmed. The next question comes from Anne- Chantal Risold from Octavian. Please go ahead. Yes. Hello, Carsten, and hello, everyone. Maybe just on the page 23, where you clearly explained the effect on the Non-Life business with 22 specific effect. My question is, should the inflation in any year be similar to 2022? Actually, this is something, an effect, that would repeat if you have any spike in inflation, that you would book inflation-related reserve directly in P&L and potentially interest rate, accordingly, the other reserve in the OCI. This is basically something was very specific to 2022, but that could, in theory, happen any year if we are in similar condition. Then if you have inflation, would the release mechanism of this inflation reserve, then again, be booked directly in the P&L? That's for one. The second one is on the, more in general also, you mentioned that the dividend policy, the cash remittance hasn't changed, and all the peers this week have, heavily stated that this fact. Now, for you, if we look, a component that some people are still looking at, a payout ratio as percentage of IFRS profit, now in the case of restatement, would have been over 100%. If you could just confirm that basically a payout ratio as percentage of IFRS profit is not a relevant parameter now for your capital management or dividend decision. Yeah. Merci beaucoup, Anne- Chantal. It's right, we are at the end of quite an intense week of transitions. I'm happy to address your questions. First, the question on inflation-driven reserve strengthenings. I take your last point first. Yes, this position could revert because it's an inflation-related strengthening, so it could also revert as an interest rate-driven strengthening can revert, and the reversion effects would go through P&L. 2022, to put it into perspective, in October 2022, the then seen inflation in the market has been the highest inflation in Europe since the beginning of inflation data gathering, so it was a massive year. That's why we said that if that would reoccur, then we would again look in the business what these inflation effects mean for reserving in Non-Life and take according measures. Yet, we do not expect 2023, 2022 to repeat. Fully aware that sometimes what you see is not what you get, and the real world can develop in unforeseen manners. That's with regard to the inflation. To your second point, on the cash remittance and payout ratio perspective in relation with IFRS 79 profit numbers, it is close to 100%, if we take it on an adjusted profit perspective, which we consider, given 2022, to be a fair point. It can, in principle, as you rightfully say, be above 100%. First of all, because there's many cash items that are not shown in P&L, but materialize through OCI. I give an example: If, in the future, we are realizing gains on shares, then this has a positive cash impact. It is creating earnings in statutory accounts and therefore is creating substance to pay out as dividends, and you won't see it in the P&L of IFRS 9 because this, due to the classification, fair value through OCI goes through the OCI statement. Therefore, I can confirm that dividend policy and dividend payments are not affected by the movements to IFRS 9. It is much more related to statutory accounts and the ability to remit cash from the operating entities to the holding company. Thank you. You're welcome. The next question comes from Farquhar Murray from Autonomous. Please go ahead. Morning, all. Just two questions from me, really both relating to the CSM, and then maybe actually a little third question, actually. Firstly, on the CSM, am I right in taking it, you're saying, look, that 5.3% release percentage is essentially flat in the coming years? What's the reasoning for that? 'Cause actually, I've been suggested from in certain cases that actually in a kind of older, mature book, actually, that might tend to actually be slightly back-end loaded. I just wouldn't mind understanding that a little bit. Secondly, are you intending to come forward maybe with a kind of forward projection on CSM release? Some companies have kind of floated the idea of doing that. Mm-hmm. Actually, as I say, a third question would: Given the kind of difficulties we have here between what's in IFRS 17 earnings and then actually the way that's quite different necessarily from what funds the dividend in terms of remittances and statutory earnings, are you thinking of giving maybe some kind of operating profit number that might be a little bit more indicative of the statutory outcome, maybe in the future? I wouldn't mind just your thoughts on that. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, Farquhar, thank you very much for your questions, and I'll take them one by one. The amount of our CSM, as well as the 5.3 percentage points in release, obviously reflect the underlying portfolios, both from the individual life book as well as from the substantial group life book in Switzerland. I think it's important to bear in mind what's the nature of our life business portfolio. That will provide, as we expected today, longer term stability. I think it's also fair to say, that with the restatements that we are just discussing, we have a first real data point, and that also we will learn more into the future and how this whole new framework on the reporting behaves. It doesn't have an impact on the way we run the business, but learning on how it translates into reporting is a key point, and your third question also points in that direction. As we speak, we have not made our minds up with regard to forward projections. As we speak, I think it would be fair to say that we would not be in a position to do so yet. We're learning. We are continuing to learn and adapt the application of the standards, then we will see what we can maybe disclose in the full year 2023 publications then in Q1 2024. I see your struggle to your third point, I fully see your, the struggle you have with regard to on the one hand, in the IFRS 17/9 world, and on the other hand, the question of what ultimately funds dividends and flows. That's why we allude to statutory accounting and other relevant frameworks for this. We will certainly think about how we can make this new disclosure more meaningful and more telling to you. That's going to be a process. We will think about how we can improve disclosure on this one, so to bridge your relevant question better. I'm afraid I cannot give you a solution today. I fully acknowledge that this is a key question that you are asking, therefore, you can count on us to give it a thought, and in dialogue with you, find ways to improve this bridge. Okay. That's a really helpful answer, and as you say, we're all learning on this one, so to me- Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Thank you also for, if I, if I may, just on this note, it is very, very helpful for us, to stay in this kind of dialogue with all of you, in moving into this new world. Having this dialogue between us, as the preparers of the financial statements, and you, as the key users of the financial statements, that, make sense out of it also then to your clients. I'm fully aware of this value creation chain, and that's, I think, we can jointly solve with dialogue. That's on a different, on a different- Right. Thank you, Farquhar. The next question comes from Bhavin Rathod from HSBC. Please go ahead. Hello, good morning. I have three questions on my side, two from the Life and one from the Non-Life. The first one would be, again, coming to the CSM relief of 5.3%. When we look at the releases reported by some of your peers, the percentage is slightly on the higher side. Just, like, wanted to understand, is this 5.3% mainly because the duration of your Life book is rather on the longer side, i.e., around 20 years, or is there also some element of management conservatism involved in how you are actually releasing your CSM? The other one would be on slide... I guess it's slide number, just check. There's a slide where you show the other impact in the Life of -CHF 85 million. Just wanted to check, how should we think of this other impact in Life going forward? Would you say this CHF 85 million would be a more normalized number that we should expect going forward? The last one would be on the Non-Life discounting and unwinding impact. You mentioned there was CHF 71 million positive effect of discounting on the combined ratio, and there is this minus CHF 40 million unwinding impact. Can you give us any guidance or indication on how the unwinding and discounting might develop in the near future, given the current interest rate environment? And when we should potentially expect the unwind to overtake this discounting impact, I don't know, maybe three or four years down the line. Any indications around that would be very helpful. Thank you so much. Bhavin, thank you very much for your three questions. I go to your first question of the CSM release of 5.3%. It is correct that in comparison to what others have disclosed, it's maybe more on the low side or slower side. That has to do with, as I said before, has to do with the business mix that are underneath, and also the way we interpreted the principle-based IFRS 17 standards. I think it's fair to say that the main reason for the pretty high CSM on the balance sheet and the 5.3% release that we see in the P&L, is a reflection of the geographic and product mix that are behind the VFA business. With regard to the other -CHF 85, that we showed on slide 17 in the condensed P&L for the restated Life business, this is just one data point that we have. It contains, as I said, also the non-attributable costs. The first assumption would be that it's more or less stable, but we need more data on this until we could really give a guidance. It's not possible to give a run rate based on the 2022 restatements. Your first, your third question relating to the unwinding effects that have been mentioned in the Non-Life unwind and discounting effects. We expect also positive discount effects in 2023, but probably to a lesser extent. If the interest rate environment goes flat, then it's by nature that at some stage, this levels ours out, and it gets asymptotic to zero. Those are shifts, only shifts over time, depending on where the interest rates go. To your precise question, for 2023, we expect positive discount effects also in this year, but to a lesser extent in comparison to the restatement year, 2022. Thank you so much. You're welcome. The next question comes from René Locher from KBW. Please, go ahead. Good morning, all. I wanna just touch on this CSM again. I mean, where I'm really struggling is, you have reported the CSM at year-end closing 2022, CHF 5.4 billion, and one of your competitor, where I saw that they do have a similar book of business, reported CHF 3.9 billion, quite a delta, right? Then you release 5.3%, and your competitor is releasing 8.8%. I mean, from an outside, like me, it's really very hard to understand this new standard 17/ 9. It's very confusing, right? Because I really thought that the books are similar, but we have different CSM, we have different release ratios. That's the first question. Yeah, if I may very quickly, given that Michael Müller is on the call, I appreciate that you're an attractive employer, you have very happy employees. I mean, looking at Baloise from a shareholder point of view, I mean, the stock has underperformed now for quite a while. I was wondering, is this a discussion point at management level, even the board level, or is this just You just take it as it is? Thank you. Good morning, Ren é, with a twinkle in my eye, you said that it's struggling from the outside view. There is also sometimes some small moments of struggling inside. I say this with a twinkle in my eye, obviously, I can only comment on our situation with regards to your observation. CHF 5.4 billion at CSM pot at year-end, 5.3% re-release. Our implementation of the standards and the nature of the underlying books result in this. Again, it is a first data point. We'll certainly learn more also in the future. I'm afraid that's all I can say. We consider this to be, at the moment, the fair representation, of our life franchise under IFRS 17 and 9. For the second question, I give to you, Michael. Thank you very much. I think the strategy with Simply Safe we have is we really believe that engaged, motivated employees lead us also to happy customers, also to growth at the end, and also with that we have a better return for shareholders, also having the shareholder goals in our view. That's the strategy with Simply Safe we are following. It's clear at the end, we are a stock-listed company, and it's not about having happy customers or happy employees, which is the primary goal. We want to be really good also on the stock market, and we want to have this performance also. That's also why we have our same strategy. That's also why I think, we even have a little bit to more to focus this on the operational excellence. This is a key DNA of Baloise, and which leads also to cash, and to cash remittance, it's what we pay to the shareholders, that's completely clear. Okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome. As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one. The next question comes from Daniel Regli from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead. Good morning, and thank you for taking my question. I mean, my question is basically going a little bit in the same direction as just alluded to from my colleague, Ren é. I just wondered, you know, how exactly is this amount of CSM, which is released to the P&L, determined? To what extent this is subject to management discretion, or to what extent this is kind of just a rule-based execution of what you have to do? Thank you. Yeah, Daniel, thank you. Thank you for your question. You mentioned you spoke about rule-based and we had to translate the principle-based words written in the standard into an implementation. That contains many models and many calibrations, assumptions, and so on. That's why it is technically coming out of these decisions. It depends on the way it releases, is basically the question on how the services are provided from the contracts that are backing this book and how this unfolds. That is where the duration comes into play and how the services are provided for any individual contract, and then obviously then for the contracts on a portfolio level. As such, it stems directly from the contracts underwritten. With regard to the services provided, there is not really management choice. It is depending on the product portfolio underwritten. With regard to further disclosure, I would like to suggest at this point that we will pick this up again when we talk about half-year numbers, where we then have the next data point. It is pretty rule-based. Okay. Yeah, sorry. That's okay. Could you maybe just give me some kind of examples which would then kind of trigger a CSM release? You know, for example, if you pay out certain things to policyholders or so, and then a CSM release is, like, triggered through, like, you know, for example, in case of death, and there is, like, a death amount paid out, and then if this happens, then it triggers also the CSM release. How do I need to kind of look at this mechanism? Yeah. If there is services provided, and obviously we talk about tragic events in life, and we make abstraction from this when we continue to talk, when the underlying service is provided, then the shareholder's margin or the owner's margin on this part of the business is released. Mm-hmm. Okay, I see. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. This helped a lot. Gentlemen, so far, there are no more questions on the phone. If there are no more questions. Let us thank you. Thank you for being in the call today. Also, thank you for your questions. As Carsten already mentioned, it's also important for us to stay in contact, that we see your topics, how are you looking on the business, which is also then good for us to improve our disclosures we are doing. Thank you very much, and we see us or hear us then with the half year closing. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call, and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines.