Sehr geehrtes Publikum. Ladies and gentlemen here in the Hotel Widder, dear viewers in the live stream. On behalf of BKW, I'd like to welcome you to the Analyst and Media Conference on BKW's 2023 half-year results. My name is Marisa Fetzer. I'm the Deputy Head of Group Communications. On stage here, I'd like to welcome Robert Itschner, the CEO of BKW, and Martin Zwyssig, who has been with us as CFO since the first of July of this year. I'd like to briefly outline the program for today's Analyst and Media Conference. To start with, BKW CEO, Robert Itschner, will give a brief overview of the half-year results and the highlights in the individual business areas. Then our CFO, Martin Zwyssig, is going to present the half-year results in more detail. And finally, Robert Itschner will provide an outlook for the second half of the year. The presentations by Robert Itschner and Martin Zwyssig will be followed by a Q&A, and we'll pass around a microphone here in the room, and you, ladies and gentlemen, in the live stream, have an opportunity to ask your questions online as of now, and we will answer them in the Q&A session. Now, let's start with the presentations on BKW's 2023 half-year results. I'd like to hand over to our CEO, Robert Itschner. Ladies and gentlemen, a hearty welcome from me, too, to this analyst and media conference on the half-year results of BKW. I'm very pleased to present to you an excellent half-year result. Here, you can see the key ratio. We grew our revenue to about CHF 2.4 million, +6%, EBIT +29%, CHF 425 million, and operating net profit was grown by 60% to CHF 304 million. So that was a very strong first half year, and we will hear more about the individual contributions. I will comment on the business areas before handing over to our CFO. Briefly on the energy markets, we have attractive electricity market prices compared to 2022 and before. Gas prices have recovered steadily, but there is a lot of nervous atmosphere in the markets. Let me give you an example. A strike was announced by an LNG, and this... Europe is not really dependent on Australian LNG, but still prices went up, and when the strike was canceled, they went down again. Energy transition is a big topic. We can see this in the political proposals and initiatives in Switzerland. We have the Solar Express, Wind Express, a lot of acceleration happening in the political scene and in Germany and the rest of Europe, too. Other initiatives are being discussed. One example is the hydrogen initiative in Germany. We're speaking of about 1,800 kilometers of lines that will be built. So a lot is happening in this respect, and that makes us very confident when looking ahead into the future. A few highlights of what we did in the first half year. We acquired three wind farms in southern Sweden, with a total capacity of 125 MW. Sweden is a very interesting market. They need a lot of electricity, have a lot of heavy industry, too, and this gives us very good opportunities. 19 turbines in three sites. BelpmoosSolar was announced. You saw that. That's the airport in Bern. We want to build a solar plant with a 35 MW peak, so that is an excellent provider of electricity, and we are confident that by 2025, we will get the building permit, so we still have some work ahead of us. Then there are the roundtables in the Canton of Bern on the Alpine PV plants. That's an important contribution for wind energy in Switzerland. We have two roles there. We will provide the connections to the grid, and we have some projects that we are driving, and we do hope that in the course of this year, we will be able to move ahead with these projects. Then Trift, the new hydroelectric power project in the Bernese Oberland, the Grand Council, the Cantonal Parliament of Bern, spoke in favor of the adaptation and supplementation of the concessions. This is very important for winter electricity, and we do hope that in the coming years, we will be able to move ahead with the project, so that we will be able to build another large-scale power plant. But there's still a lot to do. Then we have some small hydropower plants. Arvigo is one of them in the Calanca Valley that was commissioned, and in September, close to Spiez, we're going to commission another one, and another one in the canton of Bern, we will commission this in 2025. So we are continuously investing into small hydropower plants wherever it is possible, and we do hope that we can realize the large-scale projects, too. Then PPAs, power purchase agreements, that's an important topic for us, will become even more important in the future. In Europe, we will use more and more PPAs, this collaboration between the market players, and we were able to sign new PPAs for over 200 MW. So, mostly in Germany and also in other EU countries, to be able to grow in this area. Then, users, that's a stable business. The grid business, that is, but there are some major challenges, too. So 3,000 new PV systems were connected to our grid. So that's exponential growth. We have a total of 21,000 PV systems in operation in our distribution grid. 440 MW, that is 1.5 as much as Mühleberg used to produce. When the sun is shining, we have a lot of solar electricity. And the second point is, and it illustrates the quality of our grid. With this availability, we are peak worldwide. 22,000 km of electricity is what we make available, and this is a lot. We are best in class there, and we want to maintain this high standard, and it costs, obviously. And then the last point, the smart meter rollout will start at the end of the year. We will replace about 400,000 meters in our grid, and we selected the partners, the suppliers of these systems, and we are ready to get started with the project. So that's a sizable investment that we're making here. And last but not least, our services. We have a mixed picture here. The results are not quite where we would want to have them, have not quite met our expectations, but the market is still very interesting. We have, we're able to get the award for major projects in Germany. It's all about lines and the line infrastructure. In Switzerland, we have some major projects, too, but there have been delays in the project, and we saw this when it comes to capacity utilization. Generally speaking, a lot of potential when it comes to planning of energy-efficient solutions, heating and cooling solutions, and there was a major initiative in Germany to decarbonize heating. Along with the infrastructure projects in Germany, we were able to win projects in planning, heating applications. There's one here in Zurich, the ewz, for the district heating network in Altstetten, for example. So we are very active, and we are expanding these activities, too. Then, last point, we are striving for excellence in all our projects. I'm speaking of our project in Zurich, HVAC, we're pooling synergies and expertise there. This last slide before handing over to our CFO, a word on ESG, environmental, social, and governance. We launched an extensive program. Let me give you a few examples. We had our 125th anniversary this summer, and we communicated our ambition to achieve Net Zero by 2040, reducing our greenhouse gas emission to Net Zero by that year, 2040. That's the priority. It doesn't mean that we're not working in other areas, too, electrification of mobility, et cetera. We will communicate more specific milestones. And then the second point is very important, health and safety, occupational safety, that's a very important point for BKW. And we set a visible signal, something that is important for our employees. The Suva's Safety Charter was signed. The Swiss Accident Insurance Association's Safety Charter is something we signed, and there's still quite a lot to do in this respect. And then diversity and inclusion, that's important for BKW, too. We communicated that this year. There are specific measures that we're taking. We want to be an attractive employer for a diverse group of employees, and we will work on this in the future, too. The last point that is very important to me personally, too, we have a whistleblower system we call Integrity Line. We have had it for some time, but we included external stakeholders who can access to this Integrity Line. You will find the link on our website to this Integrity Line. All observations on our conduct can be reported via this line. We will monitor these reports and take them seriously. These were some of the highlights. Martin Zwyssig does not need any introduction. I think. Our new CFO, many of you will know him. He joined us on the first of July. It seems much longer to me because he's totally in the topic already. I'm very happy that he joined us with his wealth of experience. He will help us face the challenges of the future. I'll hand over to you. Thank you. Thank you very much for this kind introduction. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this media conference. I'm extraordinarily pleased to be here standing in front of you, talking about the first half year 2023 with such good results. Now, let's get started with the key figures. Here, you have an overview of the main key figures as of June 2023. BKW has a revenue of almost CHF 2.4 billion. This is a 6% increase. The EBIT increases to CHF 425 million, with again, a very successful portfolio management and trading result. The EBIT was increased, although there was a record in the previous year of CHF 330 million, and a plus of 30% leads us to CHF 425 million. The operating net profit, that's the operating performance of the group, that is before the STENFO income, that's at CHF 304 million. The STENFO, which is the decommissioning fund of Mühleberg Nuclear Power Station, has now had a positive performance. The STENFO made a plus of CHF 36 million, so that is included in the net profit. Last year, there was a minus of 119 of the STENFO. Then, operating cash flow, CHF 491 million. Strong liquidity in the first half year. I will come back to the details later on when we talk about the cash flow. Then, ROACE at 15.4%. This is definitely above the capital cost of BKW. And last but not least, equity ratio of 44.1%. This is basically due to two effects. We have a lower balance sheet total, and the equity was increased by about CHF 0.5 billion. I will come back to that later on as well. Now let's look at this slide. Here you can see the business areas and where the positive developments come from in terms of revenue and also in terms of EBIT. Now, energy, let's talk about revenue first. Energy, the business area energy, accounts for CHF 70 million, which is the main driver, of course, of increase in revenue. Again, we have had an extraordinary positive portfolio management and trading result. Then the passing on of tariff increases of Swiss grid, a plus of CHF 16 million. And then we have lower transmission, which is at CHF 8 million, which reduces the revenue. So net, we come to CHF 8 million. And when it comes to services, we have a plus of CHF 49 million. This is mainly due to inorganic growth of the acquisitions that had not yet been done in 2022. They were now reported in the first half year 2023, so that is the difference. A few words about the EBIT on the right-hand side. Again, business area of energy contributed with CHF 110 million. Slower transmission volumes in grids, CHF -6 million, led to a slight decrease. I will come back to that later on. In terms of services, we have high material costs and project inefficiencies, sometimes delays, sometimes the supply chain problem, leads to a minus of CHF -11 million in services. On this slide, and on the next two slides, I will go into the individual business area. First of all, let's talk about energy. Here we have the absolute values on the left-hand side of the slide. The business area of energy benefited from the easing of the markets. This normalization was anticipated appropriately, and the positions could be reported accordingly. The dark blue pillars, here you can see a plus of 6% of CHF 1.245 billion in the first half year, 2023. Volatility, as well as spread positions and well-paid system, ancillary system, contributed to this good result. On the expenses side, the costs for energy procurement have decreased by 7%. Two main drivers can we see here. First of all, the higher management and trading results, which reduces the procurement cost. And second, the performance of the STENFO fund, that's the decommissioning fund of power plant, Leibstadt, led to a reduction of the procurement cost. This led, in total, to an increase of the EBIT to CHF 344 million, that is a plus of 47%. Then, maybe one glance on the production mix, that's on the right-hand side of the slide. Due to wet weathers, compared to a very dry previous year, led to a higher production of the hydropower plants from 1.5-1.7 terawatt hours. Then, due to prices, thermal, mainly coal power plants, were a bit less used, and due to the acquisition of the Fombanou wind farm in France, wind farm production increased slightly by 0.1 terawatt hours. And last but not least, the limited availability of French nuclear power plants led to a slight reduction of 0.1 terawatt hours, and comes to 1 terawatt hour this year. Then, about grids. I've already mentioned it, passing on tariff increases of Swissgrid. As you may know, we invoice to Swissgrid, and this is then passed on. We had a very mild winter, and energy saving measures led to a minus of CHF 8 million or a plus of 3%. Then on EBIT level, we can say the following: tariff increases of Swissgrid are neutral because they are passed on, so this does not have an influence on it. However, what does have an influence is the lower transmission volumes, which led to a slight reduction of EBIT of a minus of 8% to CHF 76 million in the first half year, 2023. A very stable and reliable level. Then, on to Services. In terms of Services, revenue has a plus of 6% to CHF 884 million, inorganic growth due to acquisitions that we carried out last year. Then, we have Building Solutions. When it comes to the revenue split, you can see it on the right-hand side. Building Solutions accounts for 58%, a growth inorganically and organically, and the revenue was increased by 20%. IT and electronics are growing increasingly. Engineering has a revenue share in 23%. That's a slight minus of 9%. That's mainly due to the fact that we sold two companies in this area. Then, organic growth is also lacking in terms of engineering. That is mainly due to the fact of lack of skilled workers. Then, in Infra Services, with a revenue share of 19%, here we can see a slight decrease of 8%, which is due to the fact of a very challenging market environment, and this has led to this slight decrease. However, there is a very positive note. We have a very positive ordering intake and backlog in Germany. We have increased material costs and third-party services that lead to increased costs, of course, and also delayed passing on of price increases. That is also something that contributes to this lower EBIT level. Therefore, the EBIT is decreasing from 33 to 22. That's a minus of 33%. However, we have introduced a two-year program in order to increase our performance. This has been introduced as of Q1 2023, but certainly that will only have an impact in subsequent periods. Let's come from the income statement to the cash flow statement. The operating cash flow on your left-hand side of the chart of the slide, we have a record high of CHF 491 million. The cash conversion rate is incredible, 92%, which is really a record. The main driver here, the main reason for this high cash flow, is the strong result of the first six months, and also a supporting factor is the reduction of net working capital of CHF 98 million. Net investments on your right-hand side of the slide, of course, also includes debt investments, intangible assets, and also marketing and other investments into subsidiaries. Here we have dividends, for example, and also the reimbursements of the STENFO are excluded, so that's real net investment. Compared to last year, this has been substantially decreased by from CHF 468 million - CHF 215 million. That's mainly due to the acquisition of companies that was much higher last year than in the first six months of 2023. It is important to note that the operating cash flow covers investments at BKW. Again, this has to be like this in the long term. Of course, you can invest, but you have to cover it. It has to be covered by the operating cash flows. Let us have a look into the net investments. Where did we invest into? 59% of the investments go into growth and 41% into the maintenance. Now, the central circle, you can take a closer look at growth. The lion's share, of course, invested is in energy with 96% of 96%. These are the wind parks, for example, that we invested into in Sweden and also a minor scale hydropower network plants. Then maintenance on the very far right-hand side, CHF 91 million. Again, most of the investments in maintenance of our grids is 56%. About CHF 100 million Swiss francs are invested on an annual basis into the modernization of our grid. Robert Itschner has already mentioned it. This is a true prerequisite for a high availability of our grid, therefore, we need to invest this large amount. Then we have an overview of the cash development, liquidity of the group, and on reporting day, that was 30th of June, CHF 890 million, which is a plus of CHF 92 million compared to the first of January. We have already talked about the operating cash flow, a plus of CHF 491 million, and cash flow from investments minus CHF 215 million. Then we have dividends and interest, a plus of CHF 50 million, so that is dividends and interest, but also the refunds that we got from the decommissioning fund of nuclear installations, that's the STENFO, CHF 17 million. So if you summarize the first three gray bars, then when it comes to the free cash flow, that's CHF 326 million. This was used in order to pay the finance in order to pay for the dividends of CHF 227 million, and the financing was reduced by CHF 181 million. With the direct participation of Swiss pension funds in the context of our capital-light strategy, and in the portfolio of our wind farms, we have an income of CHF 195 million. This leads to the net cash inflow of CHF 92 million, which means a cash and cash equivalence level of CHF 890 million. Very important to note, and it's not mentioned on this slide, we did not utilize a committed credit line in the amount of CHF 2 billion, so that has to be added on top. These are committed credit lines that we entered into. Then, a summary of the net debt and our maturity profile of bonds. First of all, a few words about net debt on the left-hand side of the slide. Liquidity, and here we have short-term financial assets. This is the bars above the zero line. I've already mentioned those and explained those, but on top of this, we had the financial liabilities that we were able to reduce by CHF 144 million - CHF 1.9 billion. This is mainly due to the fact that the short-term financial assets or liabilities were reduced with banks. So these liabilities are going back, and we now have a net financial debt of below 1 billion Swiss francs, which, of course, increases and strengthens our A rating, and also eases the overall position of BKW. On the right-hand side, you can see the maturity profile of our bonds. We have an extremely good diversification. If you look at the time axis, and gives us a lot of leverage, of room for moving ahead into the future. But this is really something that we have installed a long time ago and is very gratifying. Let's take a close look at the balance sheet. The easing of the energy market has a positive impact on BKW. The reduction of the balance sheet total by CHF 0.7 billion goes back to the lower margin of energy derivatives and other factors. Equity was increased to CHF 4.9 billion. The main drivers were, of course, net profit of CHF 340 million, but also other factors, such as hedging successes in the first half year. That's a direct equity entering into the books. Then also the divestment of the 49% renewables in the context of our capital light strategy, as I've already mentioned it, that's CHF 195 million, which then it contributes to these figures here. Then, the dividend of CHF 227 million, of course, reduces the result. We have an increase of equity and a reduction of the balance sheet total, which then comes to an increase of 44%, to CHF 49 billion on reporting date. Then, a few words about the return on capital employed, 15.4%, which absolutely exceeds internal target of BKW of 5.5%. This was valued at the thirtieth of June. However, the NOPAT, that's net operating profit after tax, that's EBIT without financing, is calculated on a rolling basis over the course of the twelve months. The second semester of 2022, which is outstanding, has to be added to that. So this leads to a bit of an exaggerated NOPAT, so the ROACE at the end of this year will decrease again back to a new, rather normal level, but will certainly remain very gratifying. On the right-hand side, you can see the market capitalization. It has grown to over CHF 8 billion, market capitalization, and with such a gratifying market capitalization, of course, BKW has become very interesting for other investors, mainly from the international realm. And I would like to hand back to Robert Itschner. Thank you very much for your kind attention. Thank you. Thank you, Martin, for this presentation. I think the figures show how well we are positioned in attractive markets, and we want to continue growing. For your information, we communicated that we will have an organizational adjustment. The organizational structure will be adjusted as of November 1, 2023. Grids, the grid division, there, Corinne Montadon will take over from our colleague, Küpfer. And we managed to take on board somebody with a lot of expertise in the energy markets. Stefan Suter will take over on November 1. He's joining us from EnBW in Germany, and he will head the new energy markets division, trading and distribution, from one source, as it were, so that we can drive the energy market even further. Now, this is my last slide, outlook. I think you saw that already. We were able to profit from an excellent trading and portfolio management result. However, we do not expect to maintain this high level in the second half of the year, but still, we will raise the guidance with regard to EBIT to a bandwidth of between CHF 600 million and CHF 650 million for this financial year. This takes me to the end of my presentation, and we have time for your questions now. Thank you. Thank you, Robert Itschner and Martin Zwyssig, for your presentations. We're going to have a Q&A now. Some questions have come in in the live stream already, and we will answer them. Dear guests here in the room, wait for the microphone before you ask your question, and please state your name, your company, and also mention who your question is going to. Then I'd say, let's get started with the questions here in the room. And as I said, please wait for the microphone. Are there any questions here in the room? Yes, here in the front. Yannick Krief of ZKB—Yannick Krief, that can be—in high German, right? The secured electricity prices at the last conference, you were dealing with the year 2026. 2026, is this hedged now, or is there still a buffer open? And the secured electricity prices, will they be at the level of 2025 or maybe a little bit above them? That's my first question. The electricity prices are hedged in March, and for 2026, the prices are hedged, and they will be at a slightly higher level than 25. And the second question on the services segment, I think that's the only surprise today. You have a margin of 2.5% now, and Burkhalter], published you are at 5%. And, there are companies that have a higher margin, and you communicated that you want to achieve an EBIT margin of 8% in the midterm. Is this still your target, and what are you going to do to achieve this margin? I'll take this question. 8%, that is our target, and we'll stay with that, and we're confident that we are heading towards that direction... We acquired very quickly, in the past, and we are now consolidating to be able to grow in this business, and we really want to drive that. So that was my question. Are there any more questions in the room? Thank you. Alexandra Bosshard, UBS. I have a follow-up question on the sales of the investment in the wind farms to institutional investors. This capitalized cash inflow of CHF 195 million. In your business report, I read you gave a loan to the company, a hybrid loan. Could you comment on that? Quite honestly, I cannot answer this question at this point in time, but I will give you an answer at a later stage. Thank you. Let's check in the live stream. We have questions from Bosco Ojeda, in English. I'm going to read it in English. We have the breakdown in the energy division, EBIT- Good morning. I have three questions. Could we have the breakdown in the energy division, EBIT, between the trading profits and normalized energy sales? A question to you, Martin. Could you repeat the question, please? Could we have the breakdown in the energy division, EBIT, between trading profits and normalized energy sales? That's the first question. We don't disclose these numbers on this detailed level. I'm sorry. Here comes the second question from Bosco Ojeda, UBS. Can we have some color on the hedging prices achieved for the next three years? Axpo recently mentioned EUR 80-90/MWh in 2-3 years. Is that a good reference? Yes, this is a good reference. Yes, this is a good reference, was said. The third question, Bosco Ojeda, UBS: What is the outlook for margins and services in the next 1-2 years? I can answer this. Our goal is that we come back to the level that we had, and then grow our profitability from there. Thank you. A question here in the room. Andreas von Arx. I have a question on the services segment. Could you give us an indication whether there are restructuring costs that you would know for the next few years? Or are you aware of an order of magnitude of how much you can reduce the costs? To just get an impression. We do not have any restructuring programs at the level of these services units. We have adaptations in the individual companies that were made already. We do not think that we will have significant restructuring costs with regard to the number of employees. We are in a growing market, as you heard. We have more orders coming in, that's growing, so we need people. We have structural costs that will grow, but we do not have any major restructuring programs, no one-off costs to grow the profitability. So you would head for the midterm goal on the sale of your investment, a deal in a wind park in a wind farm in Switzerland. At the same time, you are buying in Sweden. Maybe you can comment on that. What is the strategic thinking behind that? The strategic thinking of this capitalized model is that for wind parks, within the BKW Renewables, that's where we pooled them. We keep the majority, so... We were looking for a stable investors environment, and we found them with the pension funds, the Swiss pension funds. That gives them a very stable return on investment, and with the cash that is generated in this way, we can make further investments without giving up control or majority on these investments. And buying, acquiring in other countries, that's not the model that you use? No, not right now. Yes, we have foreign wind parks in our portfolio. We're not limiting ourselves to one geography. If we look at the mid-range picture, can you say a few words on dividends? What can be expected? And with regard to the previous management- ... There was a 2026, EBIT, profit, goal. Is this still valid? On the dividend, we spoke about that briefly. That is a decision taken by the AGM. And of course, we will submit the recommendation. We have not discussed that for next year based on this year, paid out next year, but we think that the policy of BKW will remain the same as in the past with regard to dividends. And then ambition 2026, we're not changing that. That is our ambition, and this is what we're working for. Thank you. Here on the left. Armin Rechberger, ZKB. You're producing 20% of your energy with thermal power plants, and in 2040, you have the Net Zero target that you set yourselves. Now, what does that mean for gas power stations or coal power stations, power plants in Germany? Well, that's actually a good question. We're clarifying that, what we can do there. There are various aspects that need to be heeded. We are not the majority stakeholder, especially not the one of the coal power plant in Germany. But of course, we are discussing together with the other partners, what can be done with these power plants, whether there are any possibilities to fire them in a different way, with renewables, more sustainable, with pellets, for example. So that is one discussion that's ongoing. However, we haven't come that far in order to take any decisions. We are still reviewing all the possibilities, all the options, and we will really need to look whether this still makes sense. What about the gas power stations? That's maybe second priority. With the coal power station, I think that is the main emitter of CO2. That's why we focus on this first. But actually, this coal power station is very much needed at the moment, so we cannot react on the short term. But of course, we will have to look at a long-term plan there. Thank you very much. Let me check the live stream. We have two questions by Carlo Senn of Berner Zeitung and Bund. First of all, this is probably a question for Robert: Why do you increase electricity tariffs although the profit has increased? You have mentioned some of the reasons, for example, the increase to Swissgrid, the energy transition, smart meters. However, for many readers, this increase in tariffs is not understandable. I understand that this is not understandable. However, we have to make a difference between the regulated business, that's the grid. We are very strongly regulated there. We can pass on these costs. That's what we are doing, and we are not in a position to increase our profit via tariffs or, at the same time, be a reliable partner for energy supply. So these are the two factors that need to be taken into account. Some of the factors have already been mentioned. First of all, the cost for the hydropower reserves, for the emergency power plant in Birr, for example, is also done via Swiss grid, then tariff increases on the grid's side due to ancillary systems costs that are increasing, and the smart meter project, I've already mentioned it. This is also a cost factor, of course, that has to be factored in. And last but not least, on the energy tariff side, we have had to make a small increase because we have a more expensive power plant mix as of last year due to water scarcity and also higher overall costs. So these costs were reviewed by the ElCom and have been approved. So the net, the profits that we talked about today, this is really mainly due to the portfolio management and trading result. This has nothing to do with the basic energy supply that we are carrying out. Thank you. Let me take the second question of Carlo Senn of Berner Zeitung and Bund. What does BKW expect in the coming years when it comes to the prices for energy? Are the costs tend... Do they tend to increase, and can we expect a reducing of energy prices? Well, that is really reading a crystal ball. Of course, demand will increase massively. That's what we can observe continuously, and it will even accelerate this trend. I guess this is just a prerequisite for energy prices in order to keep them at a tolerable level on the grid tariff side. However, I have to point out that there are major challenges that need to be overcome, and I expect that in the midterm, these costs will increase slightly. But I really am very cautious about global energy prices increases or decreases for the future. All right, any further questions in the room? Yes, please. Thank you. Christoph Eisenring, NZZ. First question: You are still under a rescue program. 2026 is coming up soon. Are you talking to the federal government? Because there are other companies, companies that are also under this umbrella. Now, you have mentioned your key figures, but don't you think that you should withdraw from this? Then second question about Germany. At 10,800 kilometers of hydrogen transport and the efforts of the European Union. Now, do you think that Switzerland should live up to these expectations in terms of hydrogen as well? Well, first of all, the rescue program. We are not having any discussions with this, but maybe you are right, and this might be a good idea. We are very solidaric in this respect, and we contribute to it for companies that are hit and affected by it, but we are not discussing. It is really on the cost side, but it doesn't contribute to any good figures. Then, hydrogen. There are a lot of activities going on in Switzerland, too, for example, at the Federal Institute of Technology, ETH, in Zurich. They have launched a program, an initiative, various projects in order to implement such projects in Switzerland. Now, for Switzerland, there is the big question that how and when we can be set up so that we can be integrated in the European, context and structure. So this would be a very important basis in order to do more research and invest more in hydrogen. But this is truly a political question, and we cannot really impact this or influence this. But of course, a lot of things will happen. They are already going on in Germany. There are a lot of projects with major players. 300+ MW plants are being built, and this infrastructure will be upgraded as well. So these are very, very tangible steps that are being undertaken already at the moment. Thank you. Any further questions? Johannes Brinkmann from [Finanznachrichten AG]. You have mentioned that in services business, you put three units to two, and you will undertake further steps. What does that mean? Well, I cannot give you or communicate any concrete plans in this respect. However, we do have a clear plan, I can assure you of that. This is not about doing any consolidating measures that do not have any effect, but we really have to clarify very clearly and review in which direction we want to go, and then take the further steps, but I cannot communicate any tangible measures. Giorgio Müller, The Market. With the services business, the consolidation that you are undertaking and profitability increase, does that also mean the following: Will you have fewer acquisitions? Is this acquisition hunger a bit satisfied, or will you go on with acquisitions? Well, you have noted that we have acquired at a reduced pace. In the midterm, we do not know yet and still have to decide of the further steps in terms of acquisitions, but this is, of course, always part of our decisions for the future. But currently, we are not really under pressure, and do have and can take away a bit of pressure on the acquisition pace. I think we have now reached a size which is really gratifying in order to grow organically in favor of our customers. We have acquired lots of skills and competencies that we can leverage and capitalize on within BKW. And I think that over the near future, we want to become more well-known in the market so that we can push forward organic growth. Thank you. Further questions? Yes, please. Erhard Lee, AMG. I was considering the following: You invested a lot also in grid. You call it maintenance, but I'm sure it's not only maintenance, but the return on these investments is quite small and not very attractive for shareholders. Wouldn't it be better to invest this money into other areas where the return is better? Well, now we have a public mission or task that we have to fulfill. We have to do that. We have to provide a reliable grid and maintain it, and this is part of our task, of our mission. It is really a stable anchor of our strategy. This has always been like that in the past. It has a strategic value, but this is public services that we are doing here, and we want to uphold this as good as we can. What about the return ambitions that you have? Well, I don't think that we want to disclose this. However, we are very demanding here and very selective when it comes to the investments that we are doing, also acquisitions that we are carrying out, and we have above average return. What does that mean, above average return? Well, for each business and for each market, we have differing prerequisites that we want to achieve, requirements that we need to fulfill. For example, a wind farm in Germany is assessed in a different way as it is in Switzerland, for example. So, am I correct, the strategy with regard to services will not be changed, basically? No. No. It is a very attractive market, and it will become even more attractive in the future. So I believe we are, it's a very good position to be present here. A completely different question as well. You said that the profit from the hedging goes directly into equity and has become bigger and bigger. Can you explain in greater detail, and what does this mean for the future? Well, what does it mean for the future? I can't tell you, because I don't know the price development. These are assessment effects. For example, you may know that from, pension funds maybe. Interest rate changes, whether interest rates are increasing or decreasing, of course, this has an impact, and then flows directly into equity. So these are the same effects that we have with the hedge accounting. It comes from the assessment of the derivatives, but basically, it's actually the same mechanism. It's not the, income statement. In the past, it went overall, to the overall, statement or balance sheet, but it's actually the same assessment mechanism as I just explained. Thank you very much. Are there any more questions? Rechberger, ZKB. The Trift project, what is the situation like, with regard to the timeline? Just to get an idea, will it be finished by 2030 or later? What is the time horizon, and then costs, too. And another follow-up question, how big is, the capacity? What can we expect? We're confident that we will be able to submit a building application. KWO will do that, and that will take some time. It's difficult to make any forecasts there. 2026, 2027 would be an optimistic date for beginning with the construction. And we work in the Alps. It will take some time. We can only build in the warm season. So there might be some interference. I think it's early 2030s, which would be the earliest time to commission this. But there might be objections, too, to the building application. 215 GWh additional winter electricity that we can generate with this project. Yannick Krief, ZKB. I have a question on the acquisitions, the wind farms in Sweden and the wind farm project in Italy. The prices there, will you sell them in, on the free market, or, do you have any fixed agreements? We have both. Some is fixed and some is market. 50/50, or what's the ratio? Less. Less market than 50. I think, the gentleman behind you has a question and has been waiting for some time. Thank you. König, [Mirabaud] Securities. I have two questions. The guidance implies that in the second half year, an EBIT of CHF 200 million, midpoint plus minus, will be reached, and I tried to look that up. When did you reach that? In 2018-2019, you reached that last. In trading, the assumption, is this a normalized trading profit, or what is the assumption? And the lifestyle production, is that a normal one? So what is the assumption to arrive at this figure? And then another question. In services, in Switzerland, inflation is high, in Germany, low, in Germany, it's high. So I ask myself, is this one of the main reasons, the fact that inflation is quite high in Germany and the economy is somewhat weak? And is that the reason why the services margin is a bit, little bit lower? Let me comment on trading. It's important to understand this, why was this not a topic in the past? In the past, we moved in stable markets. For the first time, we have had a half year when this mechanism showed its repercussions. On the reporting date, you have to value all the trading positions, not only the ones for 2023, but all the positions that you have, thousands of them, thousands of trading positions, they have to be valued on this reporting date. If nothing changes in the way of prices, then nothing will be added in the second half of the year. What will come in is that we have to deliver production. But with regard to the valuation of these trading positions, if we assume that prices will not change, nothing will change. So you cannot simply multiply by two. So how will this move? We have some ideas. We know how electricity prices moved in the past eight months, so we're coming closer to a normalization. There is a little bit less volatility, so the opportunities in trade, the possibilities to generate something above that is very limited, and that's why we arrived at the guidance that we presented to you. Was this understandable? No microphone is used, unfortunately. No microphone is used. But the answer is, it's important to understand it can go in both directions. In the last December week, if you have a negative valuation effect, it will have a total impact, and you have this on the reporting date in your books. It can go both ways. That's something you have to be aware of. On the topic of Germany and inflation, we feel this in the market. Residential construction is at a record low. We are very strong when it comes to the construction of infrastructure. The grid, for example, enormous investments are being made, and we have a major contribution there, and we were able to win over many large-scale projects. And our focus is on infrastructure planning, railway stations, hospitals, and other structures. So the German business still overall is a very good business for us. We have a good market there, and we will keep working in this market. Thank you. I can take one question from the live stream. This is the only question that we have now. It was partially answered by Martin Zwyssig when he spoke about the outlook. It's an English question by Frederick Nassau. If we take the fiscal year 2023 guidance, that implies an energy EBIT of around CHF 130 million in H2, in line with prior years, 2015 to 2021. Is that the correct thinking, that the big boost from power prices have now normalized? Have now normalized and have been taken into account by the 13th of June. Correct. Thank you. I think this question has been answered by commenting on the previous question. Are there any more questions in the live stream or here in the room? Any more questions? Yes. There is another question here. A simple question, because an estimate is always wrong. With regard to the grid, what's the assumption for next year? In the midterm, it should be stable, but in the short term, the estimate is always wrong. So what would be a good assumption for next year, taking that, consumption is normal? I do not want to, tweak your model, but, but if you have, no major changes, CHF 140 million-CHF 150 million EBIT. If nothing happens with feedthrough, then it's a relatively stable situation. Thank you. And there's yet another question here in the room. Would you assume that, a delay in services that we saw in the results, will you be able to catch up there? So capacity utilization, that topic, that is something, we will not, totally overcome, but we have other projects, the ASTRA project, that will help us in the next year. Thank you. Thank you very much. Let me ask here in the room. There are no more questions here in the room, and none in the live stream. Then I'd like to thank you, Robert Itschner and Martin Zwyssig, for your presentations, for answering the questions. Thank you for your questions here in the room and, in the stream. Thank you for participating in our media conference. We would like to invite you for drinks here in this room. Enjoy the autumn season, and I hope to see you all again on the 12th of March, 2024, when we communicate our 2023 results. Thank you very much, and hope to see you again.