Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Swiss Life Q1 2023 Trading Update conference call and live webcast. I am Sandra, the conference call operator. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Mr. Matthias Aellig, Group CFO of Swiss Life. Please go ahead, sir. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for dialing in and for your interest in Swiss Life. Today, we are reporting on selected top-line figures for the first quarter of 2023. We will focus, as usual, on fee income, premiums, and direct investment income. Those are essentially unaffected by the transition to IFRS 17 and IFRS 9. Please note that all group figures are in Swiss francs and that figures for each business division are in local currency. Note that all figures are unaudited and growth rates are mentioned in local currency. Let me start with today's key messages. Fee and commission income was up by 7% to CHF 595 million, driven by owned and third-party products and services that outweighed a lower fee income from Asset Managers, while owned IFAs provided a stable contribution. Gross written premiums, fees, and deposits received increased by 11% to CHF 7.5 billion. Direct investment yield was stable at 0.6% on a non-annualized basis. Direct investment income decreased from CHF 0.97 billion- CHF 0.94 billion. Swiss Life Asset Managers recorded net new assets of CHF 2.5 billion in third-party asset management compared to CHF 1.2 billion in the prior year period. The SST ratio on the 1st of January 2023, as disclosed and filed with FINMA, was 215%. As of today, we estimate our SST ratio to be at around the same level. I will now move on to our segment reporting, starting with Switzerland. Premiums increased by 2% to CHF 4.4 billion. Life insurance market was flat. Premiums in individual life grew by 24% while the market was up by 8%. Periodic premiums were up by 3%. Single premiums more than doubled, driven by new modern traditional products. Premiums in group life were stable at CHF 4.0 billion while the market decreased by 1%. Single premiums increased by 8%, primarily due to high new business. Periodic group life premiums declined by 5%. Assets under management in our semi-autonomous foundations increased to CHF 6.8 billion compared to CHF 6.2 billion at year-end 2022. Fee and commission income decreased at 6% to CHF 78 million, driven by Swiss Life Select. Turning to our French, German, and international business divisions that all report in euro. I will start with France. Premiums decreased by 6% to EUR 1.7 billion. Life business premiums were down by 9% while the overall market, including bancassurance, grew by 3%. This follows strong growth in prior years. Since 2019, we have clearly outperformed the market. Our premiums increased at a CAGR of 11% compared to 3% for the market. The unit link share in our life premiums was 65% compared to the market average of 40%. Life net inflows were EUR 0.4 billion versus overall market net inflows of EUR 2.6 billion. Health and protection premiums grew by 4% driven by the group and individual businesses. P&C premiums were down by 3% due to motor and home insurance products. Fee and commission income rose by 14% to CHF 122 million. We continued to see a strong contribution from the banking business, given exceptionally high revenues from structured products. Also, unit-linked fee income increased based on higher average unit-linked reserves compared to the prior year period. I will continue with Germany. Premiums grew by 3% to EUR 386 million due to modern-traditional and disability products. The market decreased by 9%. Fee and commission income rose by 17% to EUR 180 million, primarily due to our owned IFAs, while the insurance business also contributed positively. The number of financial advisors increased by 4% year on year to 5,973. Moving on to our international unit that includes effects from the acquisition of elipsLife, consolidated beginning of July 2022. Premiums increased to EUR 1.06 billion due to higher premiums with corporate clients. About 95% of the increase was due to elipsLife. Fee and commission income was up by 19% to EUR 100 million. The increase was due to the corporate business, including elipsLife, that outweigh a lower contribution from owned IFAs and private clients. Let's continue with the asset managers business division that reports in Swiss francs. Asset managers commission income declined by 12% to CHF 212 million. About half of the decline is due to Livit Facility Management Services, which was sold in Q4 2022, and therefore no longer contributed to commission income in 2023. The remainder is due to FX translation effects and headwinds from lower volumes in the real estate transaction market. As usual, the update on asset managers in Q1 and Q3 focuses on commission income and does not include other net income from real estate project development. In our PAM business, commission income decreased by 14% to CHF 79 million, driven by lower average assets under management, lower transaction fee income, and by the sale of Livit Facility Management Services, where about half of the commission income was reported in PAM. In our TPAM business, commission income declined by 11% to CHF 133 million. Higher income from higher average assets under management was outweighed by lower transaction fee income and the impact from the mentioned sale. To make figures comparable to full and half-year disclosures, the share of total non-recurring income for TPAM, meaning commission income as well as other net income, e.g. from project development, was 7% of total TPAM income compared to 19% in the prior year period. For the full financial year 2023, we expect the share of non-recurring income to be in line with our 2024 indication. Net new assets in our TPAM business amounted to CHF 2.5 billion, compared to CHF 1.2 billion in the first quarter of 2022. We achieved inflows in real estate, sorry, in real assets of CHF 0.9 billion, thereof CHF 0.7 billion in real estate. Inflows in other asset classes amounted to CHF 0.9 billion in bonds, CHF 0.2 billion in bonds mandates, CHF 0.2 billion in equities, and CHF 0.3 billion in money market funds. Excluding money market funds, net new assets amounted to CHF 2.2 billion, compared to CHF 1.9 billion in the prior year period. Overall, assets under management in our TPAM business were at CHF 107.9 billion, compared to CHF 105.4 billion at the year-end 2022. The increase is driven by net new assets, while FX translation was offset by valuation effects. Turning to our investment result. Our direct investment yield was stable at 0.6% on a non-annualized basis. Direct investment income decreased to CHF 0.94 billion, compared to the prior year level of CHF 0.97 billion. Bonds and real estate contributed more than in Q1 2022. This was more than offset by lower distributions from investment funds within our insurance portfolio and by the swing in repo contribution. With respect to the real estate portfolio, real estate fair value changes were around zero compared to 0.6% in the prior year period on a non-annualized basis. Real estate continues to be an attractive and important asset class to bank our long-dated liabilities in the context of our disciplined ALM. As mentioned many times before, we hold real estate because of the regular rental income it provides and not because of appreciation. About three-quarters of that rental income is indexed to inflation or interest rates. Economic fundamentals in Switzerland remain strong, which is the basis for the resilience of our real estate portfolio. Vacancy rates overall, for example, decreased to 3.5% from 4.0% at year-end 2022. Moving to solvency, cash, and payout. Our SST ratio was 215% on the 1st of January, 2023. As of today, we estimate our SST ratio to be at around the same level and therefore well above our ambition range of 140%-190%. Liquidity at holding today amounts to around CHF 0.8 billion. This takes recent cash remittances to the holding company into consideration, as well as outflows related to the dividend payment and the ongoing CHF 1 billion share buyback, which will be completed by the end of May 2023. Let me sum up. We're pleased with the first three months of 2023, especially with the increase in the fee income. This was achieved despite headwinds from the subdued real estate transaction market. Even our business model has combined several sources of fee business. Our owned IFAs in Germany and the fee businesses in France again delivered double-digit fee income growth. The international segment benefited from the acquisition of elips Life. Let me remind you that higher interest rates are economically beneficial for our life insurance business and the savings result. Some effects are immediately positive, like reserve releases. Other effects materialize over time, like higher investment rates and the increase of rental income due to the indexation to interest rates or inflation. As mentioned at the full year disclosure, we confirm all our Swiss Life 2024 group financial targets and expect to either achieve or exceed them. On the last note, we will host another IFRS 17 conference call on the 28th of June 2023. We will publish the IFRS 17 P&L for half year and full year 2022. We will also publish the IFRS 17 balance sheet for the 31st of December 2022 and 2021. We hope that this additional disclosure will provide you with the necessary information to prepare for our half year disclosure that will take place on the 6th of September 2023. Thank you for listening. I'm now ready to take your questions. The first question comes from Andrew Sinclair from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Thank you. Before my questions, I just want to say thank you very much for giving the IFRS 17 figures in June. That makes a huge difference to us in terms of building models and getting prepped for half year. Thank you very much for that. Three questions from me. First is on asset management flows. Just really wondered, are you seeing a benefit so far? Do you expect anything either one-off or ongoing from the UBS Credit Suisse merger for asset management flows, perhaps clients wanting to avoid concentration risk on the enlarged banking entity? Second was on real estate. I totally understand rental income is going to be increased as is indexed. You've made that really, really clear and that valuations don't economically matter. I am keen to understand what discount rates are being used in terms of valuations for real estate and with interest rates having moved up, how should we think about the valuation discount rate that's being used today and what your expectations are for how that might evolve? That's question two. Third was just on the investment income. I probably expected a little bit of an improvement year-to-date just to understand the headwind a little bit more from the lower investment fund contributions. Can you talk a little bit more about what's led to those lower investment fund contributions and what you expect going forward? Thank you very much. Thank you, Andy, for your questions. Let me start first with the AUM flows and their, let's say, link to UBS and Credit Suisse. What we clearly can say in the Q1 figures that we reported, there is no effect from that included. In terms of, you know, outlook, I mean, those are institutional clients. They have their processes. Given what you just said, there may be some movement in the market. Clearly we try to benefit if there's something, but those are typically processes, you know, with RFPs and the like that take some time. The message is there's certainly nothing included in the Q1 figures and we will work on seizing opportunities if there are any. On the second point, you know, on the real estate valuations, the way those valuations work, that's essentially in a way that the transaction market is observed and then the valuation kind of is transferred from what is observed in the market to our portfolio. There's not a discount rate that somebody assumes and then this is driving the valuation. It's really what is observed in the market. It's then calibrated to the models and using these calibration parameters. One of them really is the is a discount rate which depends, you know, on many things. It's then applied to our portfolio. I think what is important, when it comes to the valuations, I mean, buyers, they don't look to a valuation discount rates. I mean, they take into considerations, you know, what are the future rental income streams. I mean, there it is relevant, as you said, that they can be indexed to inflation. What is also relevant is clearly the fact that vacancy rates play a role. I mean, if you have a view on vacancy rates, if there is clearly a demand, and that's what we observe. I mean, there's a huge demand for real estate. That is relevant, that ends the valuation as well. The view on vacancy rates, on the ability to increase rates, that those are important parameters that are also, let's say, relevant in those projections. That's kind of one element, clearly the interest rate environment also plays a role. As we said in previous cases, clearly from the rate environment, we expected a pressure on the real estate valuation. Now, there is a positive from this, you know, demand driven and also, let's say, interest rate linkage of rental income, which is a positive for Q1. It turned out to net out to zero as mentioned. This is also essentially our expectation for the full year that we will see broadly stable valuations for the full year, 2023. Sorry for the lengthy answer, I think it's important to understand the valuation mechanics. The valuation as usual is done by an independent third party Wüest Partner. On the third point, you know, on the direct investment income, I think there are elements I've mentioned. You know, your re-rental income, higher bond income, that which has been moving up, let's say, Yield 1, as we call the direct yield. We clearly had headwind from the FX, you know. Euro/ Swiss franc on average was probably 4% lower than in the prior year. There are translation effects there. We have now a drag from the repos. You know, in last, in Q1 2022, we had clearly benefits from repos. There was a positive contribution with the higher interest rate that has now turned. Coming to your point about the funds, I think that's important. This is essentially an accounting feature. What do I mean with that? In the prior period, there were distribution from funds which we recorded back then as direct investment income. In Q1 2023, there were realizations of gains which economically have the same benefit, but accounting-wise, they do not show up in the direct yield. That's why we have had this reduction. I mean, that's essentially I would say more than the reported decline that was driven by this accounting feature. I hope this sheds some light on the question of the investment income. Yeah. That's helpful. Just to follow up on that, I mean, how should we expect that for the course of the year? Should we expect some more realizations to come through or for that to return to more normalized level in terms of investment fund distributions? You know, there are many considerations that drive. I would assume that we will not observe such relevant impacts in this accounting view as we now have seen in the Q1. Again, I think it's important to mention economically it is not relevant whether this shows up in Yield 1 or in the direct yield or whether it's in the realized gains and losses. Super helpful, Matthias. Really appreciate it. Thank you. The next question comes from Peter Eliot from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Thank you very much. Yeah, echo the thank you on IFRS 17. Three questions from me, if I may. First one on France, we've seen another very strong performance from the private bank. I'm just wondering if you can comment on how sustainable that is. I'm guessing by now most customers must have bought structured products. I'm just wondering, you know, what the outlook there is and how long it can continue. Second one, I guess a bit of a similar question on Germany, obviously the growth was much stronger than the number of advisors. I'm just wondering if you can add a bit of color there and, you know, whether that momentum can continue. Thirdly, real estate transactions, you know, being depressed in Q1. I'm just wondering if you can sort of add any color on the outlook there, any signs that might pick up or any thoughts you've got there. Thank you very much. Thank you, Peter. Let me start with the real estate transaction market first. As you said, we pointed out to the lower volumes in the transaction market in Q1 that also affected us. If we now first look a bit at the entire transaction market, not about what it means for us, but about the entire transaction market. We think that there will be a pickup in activity, let's say, in the second half of 2023, beginning of 2024. A bit depending on, you know, which segment, which particular custom segment, which type of real estate. We clearly see there a pickup in activities. Now, what is more relevant, what does it mean for us? How do we assess our let's say, outlook? As I said, we have reported this share of 7% of the non-recurring income for Q1 for the TPAM. For the full year, we clearly expect here a catch-up. I said we expect something in line with the share we disclosed at the investors day for the non-recurring income for the full year. That indication is around 25%. You see, we have a pipeline where we have visibility, and that's why we give this guidance or this indication, if I may say so, that we clearly expect a positive second half of the year. Now, moving on to France, you know, as you said, the banking business has been continuing to do well. We're mentioning that I'm aware of that last year, that we do not expect that high level to be sustained. I mean, we had another very strong Q1 with the structured product. You know, given the market circumstances, I mean, we put off very attractive products to our customers, and there is maybe one-third of the client base in the bank that currently have structured products. That is kind of the indication that I would like to give there. In Germany, you know, we now have seen a stronger income growth and advisor growth. You know, last year we have seen a bit of the opposite. I think, we see really good business dynamics in the German market. You know, they are going after opportunities that we see, and we have a particular commercial campaign that aims at really targeting clients, that those are mostly existing clients, you know, with some of the government actions that aim to, by different means, compensate citizens for inflation. I will not go into the detail, but the German government has enacted a couple of measures that at the end of the day will lead to a higher, let's say, net share in the people's pockets. Our advisors, they really pursue those opportunities. Here we see this high entrepreneurial spirit of our German financial advisors. Also, the insurance business is doing well. You know, we have their contributions from our growing unit-linked proposition. That's, I think what I can mention in terms of the German, let's say, market dynamics. That's really helpful. Thank you. Thank you very much, Matthias. I wonder if I could be cheeky and just add in one other question. Appreciate what you were saying, that, you know, this is about direct investment income. You know, I noted your comments just now about realization. I'm just wondering if there's anything else you can add about, you know, how we should think about net investment income at this stage. You may not be able to add anything, but just give you the opportunity. Okay. I can try to do so. Keep in mind, I mean, we have a fundamental, let's say, change of the accounting standard. That's, by the way, the reason why we have not disclosed a net investment deal. Coming back to, let's say, the old way of thinking about net investment income, you know, there is besides everything that happens in the direct yield, a couple of noteworthy points to make on the, let's say, pure realized gains elements. On real estate, we have had significant fair value changes. You may recall in 2022, we see here the outlook, as mentioned before, as broadly stable in terms of valuations. Also, as mentioned, on previous calls, we see an increase in the foreign exchange hedging costs. We discussed that, I think in half year, last in Q3, in the full year disclosures. You know, because the differentials on the short rates have increased, we clearly see as a transient headwind to the net investment yield increased hedging costs. I said this is something transient a nd in taken together, we expect, let's say, a lower level than in 2022, driven by those two elements that we have, or that I just have, explained. Do not forget, however, that You know, this happens in the policyholder, sharing space. We have the policy holder picking up most of that as a lower, let's say, dividend potential to the policy holders, so lower bonus allocations, if you wish. Perfect. Thank you very much. The next question comes from Thomas Bateman from Berenberg. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Hope you're well, and thank you for taking my questions. Could you just remind us what percentage of your annual remittances that you've received year to date? What are the other current remittances that maybe the whole co can expect to receive throughout the course of 2023? Second question, Net New Assets still look really strong. Can you just give us a bit of a flavor for where your clients are still, or where you're still seeing demand from your clients, particularly talking about real estate and infrastructure. Finally, elipsLife is obviously contributing quite strongly to the growth in international, but it's difficult to get a feel for what the growth at elipsLife is like. Sort of adding a lot to the headline on international, but can you just give me the feel for is that business growing and at what sorts of level? Thank you very much. Okay. Let me first start with elipsLife. I mean, what we have seen in Q1 clearly is a very significant contribution to the top line, be it in the premiums, but also in the fee income. We have acquired elipsLife, not just to manage that, and to operate that efficiently. We clearly see, let's say also potential, you know, for example, in markets like the Dutch markets, where we want to tap into, let's say more than in the past into the corporate pension business, you know, risk coverage, disability and debt. I think we bring important, let's say, capabilities to the table that elipsLife now, the way we operate, it really can contribute also to the bottom line of international. I would say, we have acquired elipsLife, not because of the topline contribution. We also expect a noticeable bottom line contribution to the international segment. In terms of NNA, you know, as mentioned, we have seen positive NNAs across all asset classes. We continue to see significant inflows in real assets. That's what we can confirm. What we see, and I think that is probably not a surprise, fixed income is back. I mean, if we look at client activities, requests for proposals, I mean, there are more and more also RFPs for fixed income mandates. That's what we can clearly say. In terms of, and let me really come back to that again, you know, the real assets. We talked about those real assets since let's say many quarters. You know, if I talk to our colleagues in asset management, the sense I'm getting is that really clients, prospective clients, they fully let's say appreciate that these asset classes, for example, infrastructure today specifically offer also inflation protection, as does let's say real estate. In real estate, there are, yeah, different subsegments. What we specifically see right now that light industrial logistics, that's a very attractive asset class or sub-asset class within real estate. Our demand is here, we have relevant propositions to meet those demands. If that's fine, we'll switch over to the dividends, to the cash remittance, to the holding. You know, the largest part of the cash remittance to the holding is composed of dividends that normally are remitted in the first half of the year. You know, there is kind of fees and interest and the like that are more, let's say, equally spread over the course of the year. The largest part of the annual cash remittance, if you wish, will be performed half year, and then we will also report about the figures. I think what is important to mention, what we said at the full year closing, you know, given the, let's say, significant change of interest rate environment during 2022, and which is essentially still in place. I mean, rates have come down a bit, but fundamentally rates, interest rates are much higher than they were, for example, when we were disclosing the investor, a target back in November 2021, we have now the expectation that we have a growing cash remittance in 2023 and thereafter. Why is that? Given what we said, at full year, these changes in the interest rate environment, the reserving mechanics which we elaborated on in great detail, they will lead to this structural enhanced cash remittance. Therefore, leads to the fact that we, foresee to exceed investor date target, by 2024. That's excellent. Thank you very, very much. The next question comes from Nasib Ahmed from UBS. Please go ahead. Thanks. Morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just to follow up on your answer on elipsLife in the Dutch market, are you looking to take advantage of the pension reforms happening there? And what are your expectations of taking the share of the market and the new pension schemes that are coming to the market over the next five years? I assume most of this business will be fee-based. The second question is on TPAM real estate funds. What mechanisms do you have in place to stop large redemptions in a higher interest rate environment where clients may want to invest more in fixed income type assets? Just two questions from me. Thanks. You know, I may not have fully acoustically understood the question on elipsLife in the Dutch market. If you could repeat that again. It was around the Dutch pension reform. I believe the reforms are within the Dutch Senate at the moment, and over the next five years, corporate pension schemes need to change the structure of their pensions. I was wondering if elipsLife is going to participate in those corporate pension schemes as well? Look, to be frank, I'm probably a bit remote to that Dutch pension reform. Typically, those reforms focus on the savings part of, let's say, pensions. elipsLife provides risk coverage, disability and death. That's where we earn a margin on the risk premium and that's where we see our potential to grow. Combining, let's say, elipsLife and, let's say, our presence out of the Luxembourg hub, there we see clear potential. Let me get back to, let's say, the structure of the elipsLife acquisition. You know, this is a partnership with Swiss Re, where the existing book is essentially reinsured, fully reinsured with Swiss Re. That's kind of thinking about, let's say, a fee business for international for us at this point in time. As time progress, we will with new business work on the market and this kind of new business that we will bring in over time, this will also affect renewals. We will see a gradual shift in terms of income source, or from fee based to risk profit based contributions from elipsLife. As said, there are for us clear opportunities in that market by having elipsLife now integrated within the Swiss Life international business, And let me reiterate that, where we also had the corporate pension business before. I mean, we have also existing capabilities that we can bring to the table. You know, we have had for many years successful corporate risk business in our international division. Now in terms of the real estate funds, and the question about, let's say, redemptions, I would say without, let's say, quoting the individual, let's say, features of every fund, I would say what we typically have is the usual notice periods and the like in place. You know, our clients, and I think that's important, those are institutional client pension funds, which typically have a long-term view on, let's say real estate. They are aware that, you know, timing the real estate market is something that typically does not work. Perfect. Thank you. The next question comes from Daniel Regli from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. First, quickly on the real estate exposure again, can you just remind me of your share in kind of commercial real estate versus residential real estate? Are there any kind of discrepancies in terms of expectations for valuations for the rest of the year? The second question would be, you alluded to the demand for modern-traditional products. Please ask you to repeat your comments about this, can you kind of talk You said something that this has doubled in Q1. Is this something we should expect to continue on these levels given, you know, the changed environment for rates, et cetera? Was this some kind of one-off in there? Thank you. First on the real estate portfolio. On our own balance sheet, we have about 45%, actually it's 43% residential, about 29% is office, retail is 15%, the remaining 13% have let's say different contributions. You know, there's lands to be developed. There are let's say healthcare. There is industrial or light industrial space, as we call it. That's essentially the breakdown of our real estate that we carry on balance sheet. You know, on the type of, let's say, the differences between valuations going forward, it's for me a bit difficult, you know? I would expect probably that residential is currently the most sought after. Office probably a bit less. As mentioned before, you know, we see, for example in logistics, a high demand. It's not uniform, that there are really let's say differences between those sub-segments. Also keep in mind, I mean, it's also about location, about location and location. I mean, that's what is keep driving, let's say, the valuations. To make it bluntly, an office at an excellent location may have a completely different valuation outlook than an office in a bad location. We focus for many, many years now really on prime locations. That's, as mentioned before, one of the reasons why we expect for 2023, roughly stable valuations in our portfolio. To the question of the traditional product that I've mentioned. You know, that specific comment referred to a single premium product in the Swiss market. I wouldn't call it a traditional product. We call that a Modern Traditional Product. Why is that? Because it has a guarantee which is much lower than what, let's say, the maximum technical guarantee is. To put it simply, the technical guarantee that we could offer in Switzerland is about 5 basis points. That's the maximum we could do from a supervisory perspective. In that particular product, we have a negative guarantee of maybe negative 2%, and that's why we can also provide an upside to the client. This is what clients appreciate these days. We expect, or I could at least imagine, let's put it like that demand for products which have more and more of, let's say, a guarantee element could increase over time. Why is that? They are also economically now much more attractive for us than in the past. When the rates were low, this was not attractive for us. You know, I would not imagine here a huge kind of landslide, but the gradual increase is probably what can be imagined. Okay. The next question comes from Bhavin Rathod from HSBC. Please go ahead. Hi. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I have three. The first one would be, again, sorry to come back on the real estate topic. Could you just comment a bit around the commercial real estate dynamics so far. In particular, how are you seeing the vacancy rates? Appreciate that you have your portfolio located in the key district, but any colors around how are you seeing vacancy rates evolving in your key markets? That would be the first question. The second one would be on your investment strategy. Last year you did some de-risking, investing away from real estate into corporate debt. How should we think about your investment strategy this year as well? Should we expect a continuation of similar strategies this year as well? Finally, would be on the lapse risk given the interest rate hikes that we have seen. Have you seen any shift in consumer's behavior or any risk in terms of lapse risk you are seeing this year? Those are the three questions that I had. Thank you so much. Thank you. Let me start with the last question. You know, on lapse is, as you say, last year, we have seen kind of unprecedented rate increase, 200 basis points or even more. If we look at our portfolio, I can say, look, overall, we have not seen significant changes in the lapse rates. You know, there are pluses and minuses. There are things that drive those lapse rates that are kind of outside the interest rate environment. Why is that? In many cases, or in most cases, those are not investment type products. Those are savings and pension products. You many times have attached risk protection, disability, debt protection to such products. Old age annuities you cannot surrender at all. I mean, just to put that a bit into context, there are a few, let's say, pockets of business where we have seen somewhat high lapse rates because they have specific features. Where we have seen that has been absolutely not in line with the corresponding market. Overall, to cut it again short, we have nothing particular to report other than, let's say, specific pockets where there may have been an uptick in rates in lapse rates. Maybe on the second question, the investment strategy. You know, as you said, last year, we increased the corporate credit exposure in the third and the fourth quarter a bit. That was more from government bonds rather than real estate that we used to finance those corporate credit exposures. You know, corporate credit has now turned back into, let's say, what we call capital efficiency. It's now attractive again, and that's the reason why we have back then increased exposure. I think spreads have come down a bit. I would not expect huge changes this year. Clearly, if there are opportunities, we look at them. I mean, it's a buy and manage approach we pursue there. That's, I think, probably how to think best about this. In terms of the commercial, the demand for commercial, we see here vacancy rates of about 5.5%, so a bit higher than the average I gave before. It's a bit lower in Switzerland than the 5%. If we look into specifically in the Swiss market, I think we can, when it comes to new lettings, I think we can re-rent at good rates. We are, as I mentioned before, comfortable with that real estate exposure, also in the office and the retail space. Right. Great. Thank you so much. Just very quickly on the interest rate. Can you remind us what was the reinvestment yield for first quarter of 2023? you know, it's about where we said it was back at full year. For the Q1, it was 3.9%, so somewhere between 3.5% and 4%. Quite a significant number. That's, by the way, also where we expect it to be for the full year, so somewhere between 3.5% and 4%. Great. Perfect. Thank you so much. Next question comes from Anne-Chantal Risold from Octavian. Please go ahead. Yes. Hello, everyone. I have a question, Mark. Mark, you mentioned capital efficiency just in your last remark. What we have seen in your SST report with an increase, a significant increase in infrastructure, we know under SST, private and alternative investment are very punitive. Is it going forward, you expect to continue to increase in this asset class, or there will be a way to then leverage because of the capital constraint on this type of investment? Well, you know, we look at capital efficiency, so looking at the expected excess return versus the capital requirements on a very, let's say, ongoing basis, part of our asset liability committee discussions, which we have business division by business division. We do that analysis on a recurring basis. Clearly, infrastructure equity is capital efficient. and therefore, it continues to be an attractive class for us. We would not invest there if it were not capital efficient. Even if you have to deliver almost like 100%, risk capital to back this kind of business? I may not have understood the question. Even if, at this point, even if you have to put a large amount of SST capital behind it, you still see this as a capital efficient asset opportunity. You know, we take into account clearly diversification that we have. To be frank, I'm not sure whether I can fully confirm, let's say, the numbers or the extremely high capital charge that you attach to infrastructure. I mean, there are kind of standard model elements, if I'm not mistaken, for hedge fund, private equity, which are really high. Infrastructure, at least as far as I'm aware, is treated differently in our way. Okay. Thank you. The next question comes from René Locher from KBW. Please go ahead. Good morning all. Just two follow-up questions. The first one is on cash remittance. I was just checking in my model that in H2, cash remittance in the period 2016 to 2022 was between CHF 35 million-CHF 41 million. My question is, should we expect a bit more cash transfer to the holding level in Q2 just to up a little bit the CHF 0.8 billion you reported today? That's my first question. Second one, easy one. Just on the vacancy rate. I was just wondering, the drop in the vacancy rate from 4%-3.5%. I guess this was mainly driven by the residential market. Thank you. Thank you, René. First on the question on cash remittance. I mean, structurally, we indeed have the largest share of the cash remittance in the first half of the year. You know, that's typically the fees and the interest on an intragroup loans and the like. It's a bit difficult for me, you know, when you say CHF 35 million-CHF 41 million. There are so many flows going back and forth in terms of a cash remittance. I think it's important that there is contribution the second half of the year coming. I find it now a bit difficult to give a number to that or comment that. I think it's important there is a cash remittance also clearly expected for the second half of the year. By the way, we will provide an update on the amount of cash remittance at half year. There we will talk about where we have actually upstreamed how much cash from which business division. I think it's a, it's probably a good time to talk then about the cash remittance then. Let me at this point again. Thank you. say what we mentioned at full year. We expect this growing cash remittance for 2023 and thereafter, for the reasons we talked about a lot at full year. In terms of the reduction from the 4 to the 3.5, which is, by the way, also our expectation for the full year. I would say it is driven by the successful reletting of both residential and office that we have achieved. I would actually expect it's probably even more office driven because residential is typically already substantially lower than the other segments. Okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome. The last question for today's call is from Peter Eliot, and it's a follow-up from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Oh, thank you very much for the opportunity to follow up. It was actually two follow-up points, please. The first one, you mentioned the topic of reserve releases. I was just wondering if I could just clarify. I mean, obviously interest rates are, you know, lower today than they were, you know, when you reported your full year results or at the end of the year themselves. Just wanted to confirm. It didn't sound like there was any change in your view of the future likely reserve releases. I just wanted to confirm that that was the case given that, you know, we are slightly lower than we were then. That was the first one. The second one was just coming back to the whole-life cash. apologies, I think I missed it when you said the CHF 0.8 billion. Just want to check that number is basically, you know, after the cash you've received to date and after paying the dividend. Just wanted to check my understanding of that. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Absolutely. The CHF 0.8 billion is the position as of today that I've mentioned. After payment of the dividends and receiving the intragroup dividends, it's as you said. In terms of the reserve releases, there's no change to the mechanics, to the outlook, and to what it means to what we said at full year. You may recall that we said the big part of reserves and the strengthenings are in what I would call this traditional pot, where the driver is the outlook, let's say, the long-term view on the reinvestment expectations. That's where the relevant drivers are coming from. I can confirm what we mentioned at full year. Great. Thank you very much. So far there are no more questions on the phone. Thank you very much for your interest in Swiss Life and for your questions. I wish you a nice day, and bye-bye.