Welcome to today's earnings call of JDC Group Aktiengesellschaft. The reason for today's earnings call is the presentation of the half-year figures of 2023. The CEO, Dr. Sebastian Grabmaier, and CFO, Ralph Konrad, will speak in a moment. We are looking forward to the presentation. With this, I hand over to Dr. Sebastian Grabmaier. Yeah, thank you very much, Fleur. A very warm welcome to our earnings call, first half year, 2023. Back on Track, how we titled this? As you will see, we'll show you that figures, especially in the AdvisorTech segment, are back where we like them to be with, yeah, a strong growth trajectory toward the future. We think, and that's what we also disclosed in our statement this morning, that we think that we can be back in AdvisorTech at 20%+ growth. Let me introduce ourselves. My name is Sebastian Grabmaier, CEO and co-founder of JDC Group, together with my partner, Ralph Konrad. Responsible for the Department of Strategy, Human Resources, Products, and Investor Public Relations. As you all know, sales, and marketing went to our new colleague, Marcus Rex, who will not be in the call today, but Ralph's here. My name is Ralph. Welcome here from our headquarter in Wiesbaden. I'm responsible for the IT platform operations, and from my region, for the Finance and M&A department here at JDC. Excellent. Yes, just a small wrap-up who we are. If you're not familiar to the company, we are a typical platform business. That means we take in the data of more than 1,000 product providers. That's 220 insurance groups, the asset management platforms, investment companies. They all contribute data to our platform, so we standardize the data and process the data, and then we make them visible into viewing systems, either our own or by an API structure in the systems of our clients. Our normal clients are intermediaries, such as a huge number of brokers and agents, exclusive sales organizations, other Fintech, Insurtech companies, or more and more, the banks or other insurance companies. There's about 4.5 million data sets on the platform. Increasing office efficiency, and we are therefore the leading tech stack in the German insurance industry. You can see that our platform activity, that's what we also could tell you in our last earnings call for Q1, that the platform activity is at an all-time high. Especially the insurance sector is driving our business. Yes, there is some effect on real estate and mortgage, which only both 2% of our revenues, but insurance, which is the majority of our business, is at all-time highs. You can see that the number of new orders is up almost 22%, and also the transfer of contracts, which is partly our main business in the future, that gives us the recurring revenue of the future, that's up 60%. We can see that for every new business order or new contract that we sign and underwrite with one of our clients, there's three other contracts coming to the platform by the transfer from this contract. That you know, the clients can keep their contracts wherever they are with any insurer in Germany, and we just transfer to the platform, and therefore, the recurring revenue, so the commission that the insurance pays us out of the premium, that is then coming to the platform. On average, as you might know, that's EUR 35 now each. Every single of this transfer contract means that on average, EUR 35 at the next due days contribute to the revenue of our, of our platform. Yeah, we're also happy to show you that the announcement of the last call, the first quarter call, is now there. We said that we will reach soon the EUR 1 billion in insurance assets, and now we have reached the EUR 1 billion net premium. This is a very important number driven by our new business and the portfolio transfers, because the growing asset base improves our negotiation power for better level of commissions, and this will lead to better earnings. Let me add that the growth of the insurance base of our asset base is very, very reliable. As you can see, it's as if drawn on a ruler, and it's not depending on the development of markets. Before we go into the figures, let's have a look at the growth development by asset classes. A driver of our growth in the first half is definitely the insurance business. After a growth of 13% in the first quarter, the half year showed a growth of more than 20%, so that the growth in the second quarter was even much stronger than 20%. We are very pleased with this development. The investment and financing sector is still lacking, compared to the previous year, with a minus of 18%. Here we can see the importance of a diversified revenue sources, of a diversified revenue models, because we are not depending on the investment business. It just accelerates our development in good times and slows it down a little bit in weaker times. Let's look at the development according to our sales channels. You know that the IFA business is still our main driver and accounts for 75% of the total turnover. The development here is very important for JDC's overall performance. The good news is that after a little minus of minus 0.3% in the first quarter, IFA business is back with a strong growth, leading to a half-year plus in turnover of 9%. That means double-digit growth in the second quarter. Major customers also again grow strongly by 22.1%, sorry, to EUR 3.1 million. In summary, we can say that JDC's engine, namely the IFA business and the insurance sector, is again running at double-digit growth rates. Sebastian. Your micro, Sebastian. That, yeah, you can see that our we can confirm our guidance for the entire year of 2023. We come to that. We are quite happy on the development on, on our insurance side. As I said, it's the rather the investment and then the mortgage financing sectors that are still weak. Also our, we see the advisory side is, is a little bit lagging, lagging behind the development of the Advisor Tech development. You can see that the outperformance of the platform business, and especially there, the insurance segment, that's, it gives us a very good outlook for the second half of 2023. You can see the KPIs we showed you in the beginning, with new business up more than 20%. Yeah, our mid, mid-guidance seems to be very feasible for the year 2023. You see also that EBITDA is a little bit down still, but you, you can also see that we are catching up in growth, and therefore, we know that we need another EUR 7 million in second half, but we think that's very feasible against the backdrop that we expect like a normal Q3, Q4, and that against the backdrop that the last year's Q3 and Q4 have been very weaker. We think that's very feasible for this year. Okay. With the Q1 earnings calls, we showed you this slide for the first time. Here you can observe the cyclicality of our business. As you might remember, we normally have a very strong Q4, followed by a very strong but slightly weaker Q1, and then followed by the weaker quarters two and three. This is the development you see in the year 2020 and 2021. In 2022, it was different because as a result of this multi-crisis environment, we saw a very weak fourth quarter. It was not the strongest quarter of the year. Already in the first quarter of 2023, growth was back because totally untypically, the first quarter was stronger than the fourth quarter. In normal years, then, the turnover drops from the first quarter to the second quarter by 10% or 12%. This is the normal development. This year, you can see that the turnover only dropped by 7%. That's and that, that gives us a very good view on the third quarter, where we expect a satisfactory development. If we then look at the total revenues, as Sebastian mentioned, the revenue in the second quarter grew by 8%, leading to a half-year development of 4.5% and a total turnover of EUR 84.6 million. Growth was driven by the AdvisorTech segment, and within this, as mentioned, the IFA business and the insurance sector. EBITDA in the second quarter is up around 15% to EUR 1.9 million. Because of the first quarter, which was weak, the EBITDA is still 5.7% below the half-year one figure of 2022. If we then look into the AdvisorTech segment, you can see that the segment showed a very good performance and a strong recovery in the second quarter. The revenue was up by 16.9%, and EBITDA increased approximately by 40% to EUR 2.2 million. With this performance, we have already caught up the half-year results for 2022. In total, we see a double-digit growth again of 11.2% in turnover to EUR 75 million and an EBITDA on the level of the previous year. The advisory segment, unfortunately, is still struggling with the crisis environment. Per capita sales is still below the levels of the last year, and it's not easy to attract new intermediaries in this environment. The explanation for this is quite simple, because if you are a broker and your productivity is poor right now, then it's not the right time for you to make a change and go to another sales company. Recruiting in the Advisory segment is very difficult at the moment. As a result, revenues in the second quarter are declining by 14%, from EUR 9 million- EUR 7.8 million, and in the half year by 12%, from EUR 18.1 million- EUR 15.9 million. EBITDA is down by 17.2, 2%, respectively 21.2%, for the first half year. Okay, let's look at the cash flow statement. We started the year with cash on hand of EUR 16.6 million. Good news is that the cash flow from operating activities with EUR 4 million in the first half year is 30% above last year with EUR 3 million. Despite the negative cash flow from investment activities in this year, of EUR 2.2 million, the funds increased to EUR 18 million, which is a plus of EUR 1.5 million overall. As every earnings call, the information for you, cash on hand yesterday, at the JDC Group was EUR 21.4 million. Sebastian. Yeah, as you know, we placed a bond with a face value, value of EUR 25 million, and a coupon of 5.5%. We tested the market. We sold EUR 2 million to the market in the course of the last months, and yeah, it was good to see that there was demand. Also at 5.5%, this bond is seemingly an attractive investment, and you can also see that yeah, it trades at almost 100%, plus or minus over the last weeks and months. And also, if you look at the development of the share price, you can see that yeah, it's quite stable, around EUR 17.50- EUR 18. And the good news is that gives value to these 687,000 shares that we bought back in the two successful share buyback programs. To remind you, the purchase price was EUR 9.9, EUR 0.09 per share. At a share value of now EUR 12 million, we have reserves of about EUR 5.6, whenever we would, yeah, sell the shares, and, or cancel the shares. Yeah, the best guess is that we keep it for, yeah, as an M&A currency, whenever we buy other companies, other platforms, other brokers. Cancellation is not a decision we want to take, so we just leave them on the book as it is. Yeah, you can see that we have quite a good shareholder structure. Again, Great-West Life and Canada Life, under the name, I think they're, they are known much better. It's over 27% of the shareholding. Ralf and I, we are holding a little bit more than 11%. As you know, VKB, the big public insurer behind the savings banks, owns 6% out of these share buyback programs. We as JDC, we all together, we hold 5%, majority is in the free float. A whole number of institutional, mostly institutional investors there from, from all parts of the world by now, a lot of U.S., Canadian, Scandinavian, Danish, U.K. We have some Israelis, welcome, South African and Singaporean investors. Yeah, so at a very stable situation at a market cap of EUR 236 million as it is. Yeah, we want to give you some spotlights on the last quarter, and one of the highlights, Ralph, was the Platform Summit. As you, were the one who was, who was leading, this, so please. Yeah, so we made it a rule for every year invite all the important members of the boards of insurance companies to invite them to Wiesbaden Kurhaus in a very good atmosphere, together with the heads of our main clients. All the CEO of all of our major clients were there as well. It's a very high-class event with Professor Sinn, one of the outstanding speakers in the German market. One of the consultants of the German government over decades was the main speaker together with the CTO of Microsoft to give some insights on artificial intelligence. I don't know, Ralph, whether we play the film, so to just give you some, some impression on the, on the evening. Yeah, we hope that works. We have tested it before. Now 50 seconds of impressions of this really good event. Yeah, thank you, Ralph. Yeah, so forgive us the little marketing editorial, but if you are in the industry, you see a lot of well-known faces, and you could also see that we have a very excellent, yeah, change from Stefan, who gave his department to Marcus Rex. It's a very harmonic and yeah, blessed, blessed evening, where we got a lot of big positive feedbacks on that, that a change in management can be yeah, this, this positive. Yeah, we also keep on winning platform awards. This is from the magazine, finanzwelt. You can see that we deliver all across the board of our brokers, we are the best platform in ratings of all seven categories. Outstanding for all seven categories, so by far the best rating of all the other broker pools. That's the certain topics, marketing support, product range, processes, software support, sales support, further education, and broker orientation. Another yearly signature award for ourself. This is also really important for us. A lot of work went into our ESG report. As you know, ESG reports become mandatory in the German under the German regime from 2024 on, in the Scale segment in 2025 on. We, we have pushed forward with a voluntary sustainability report, and we're very proud to announce that we are already carbon neutral in 2022. That's what we, we had in our outlook, starting 2020. That was our aim, and we reached it by a carbon compensation of 370 tons. We, forested in, within Germany, so without using more, more carbon to, to do our measures. Very happy for all of you that have analysts that are deep into ESG. Please don't hesitate and download it from our website, or if you write us an email, we are also happy to send it electronically. I think it's very important, and I know that a lot of you in France especially, but also U.K., Scotland, and the U.S., yeah, need these figures and documentations. It's a thick booklet, so with a good start, I think, in this area. If you want more, give us feedback. I think that's for a start, a very good base for also proving for you that also in terms of environment, social, government, the JDC stock, the shares are a very good investment for any fund. Okay, before we come to the guidance, let's have a look at what happened at the platform. You know that one of our goals is the meaningful further development of our IT platform. That's what we try to do day by day. To make this a bit more comprehensible for you, we show you three new features today. First is our email plugin tool in the iCRM. Brokers are now able to communicate with their customers in our iCRM and can store all the historical communication with their customers. With the use of text modules and templates, the advisor can organize his daily routine much more efficiently. Furthermore, this is the beginning, the starting point for automation features that we will provide for brokers. Just to give you an example, the advisor in the future can request a new ID copy from the customer with just one click. The customer receives an email, uploads the photograph of his ID, and automatically the broker gets a notice that this transaction is done, and he can he can go ahead. The second feature is our new MORGEN & MORGEN Analyzer. The analyzer can very easily compare existing customer tariffs with the consultant's favorite tariffs, and immediately show a visual results without any complicated calculation. This is a very, very efficient sales tool for which we see a very good demand especially from insurers' exclusivity organizations. The third tool, and last not least, we are very happy that now with the acquisition of Top Ten, we have our own digital signature software under the brand Opal-Sign. You all may know inSign or DocuSign or Adobe Sign. We now have this tool on our own, with our own IP, and can make this available to all advisors, to all our customers free of charge, and thus make our platform even more attractive. We're working hard day by day, and we will not stand still. All right, next, we want to give you a small update on the important project and customers, as you might ask, anyways. All projects are on track or better as on track. Summitas, as we said last quarter, operations are up and running, and although we don't have a CEO yet, we do have a new CFO that started September 1, and also, we have the first deal signed and closed, in end of June, 2023. There was no special press release for that because it was a small broker. EUR 2.5 million in earnings means, for us, more than EUR 250,000 in margin for JDC, and this means more than EUR 200,000 in earnings just from this one transaction. Yes, we contribute investment resources to Summitas, but then we get the money back fast because we profit and benefit from the platform turnover that these new target brokers transact with the JDC platform. Yes, we already reported that the contract with Finanzguru was renewed. What's new is that they have started billing deeply in the year 2023, so they already initiated more than 100,000 contract transfers in the first half year of 2023. We expect at least 60,000 of them to become commission-bearing. We now know that Finanzguru is a run rate of 10,000 commission-bearing contracts month-over-month-over-month. We can see that the platform really runs on an industrial level, and also this transfer of business figures that you saw on the first slide really can go further and further. Again, this will be the backbone of collecting and aggregating all these recurring revenue streams on our platform. You might ask on R+V. As we reported last quarter, the pilot phase was successful, so the four banks they had very good feedbacks on the platform usage. There will be the next 20 of the cooperative banks coming to the platform, starting the rollout to these 20 banks now. Hopefully, they're onboarded in the course of this half year or in Q1 2024. Part after part, we, we will start our, yeah, expansion into the corporate banking sector. Again, this is a common question with you. The Ersatzsingles manager is picking up pace. We have more than 60 contractual agreements with savings banks, institutions. As you might know, 85 of them want to use the platform and come to the platform to end of the year. Especially interesting is the onboarding of Kreissparkasse Köln is happening now. There's 120,000 contracts now coming to the platform, Q3. The business is picking up speed, the first 300 something new business orders per month, the first 5,000 transfer of business per month. Yeah, we're happy with the development. As you might ask anyways, the question on the contract of SV and VKB, Ralph, that's also, yeah, is, is the magic smile on our face. [crosstalk] Work in progress. Any moment. Yeah, we are in the very terminal phase of the extending the signatures, actually. Let's come to the guidance, Sebastian. Yeah, guidance important. You could see that our guidance for 2023, we uphold it, and we are quite relaxed with it, seeing a turnover of EUR 175 million-EUR 190 million for the entire year of 2023. We already have almost EUR 85 million, so I think that's a very feasible task to get to meet guidance until end of the year. As you might know, Q4 is always the very strong quarter, as Ralph also showed in the slides. If we just have a normal year-end business, I don't see any way how we are not hitting this interval. From the earnings, you always know that we earn money in Q1 and in Q4, basically. So we try to not lose too much money in Q2 and Q3. EBITDA guidance is EUR 11.5 million-EUR 13 million. We already have more than EUR 5 million, so we need another EUR 7 million. I think that's also quite, quite feasible. The other point here, yes, we, we, we will further develop our bancassurance business. We are quite on track there with VKB and SV especially. Summitas did their first acquisitions. We'll do two, three more, maybe four this year, so we have a good pipeline there. The corporate benefit platform was launched successfully, so we have the 1st couple of 1,000 contracts here in this new piece of IT that we are offering to especially employers. So the 1st full digital employer platform in the market. Top Ten is now picking up speed. You know that BaFin and FMA, so the regulators, they have quite a tough owner control procedure. We do hope that as planned, October 1st is still a good viewpoint that they're signaling that this could happen until then. Ralph showed some development of ID platform. It's becoming more efficient, so we're content with our speed there. You can see that we reduce cost per contract. We are step by step, but we'll also deliver results there in the course of next half year. Yes, as always, the disclaimer is that the first, the development of a global national economic environment. What we can see that if consumer confidence in retail has not been back, you see not too strong figures of the retailers in Germany, but this is different for insurance and and all our breadth of financial product. You can see that there's not only inflation that's giving us tailwind, but also this wave we did not see in Q3, Q4, especially in the year-end business. We can see that there is effects that contracts that were not signed in Q4 seem to happen now. We're happy that this waves, as we said last, last half year, that this wave is now here. We can really see this printed in our new business figures. Also on the transfer of contract figures that, you know, the, the, the sales or the machine room is running just fine. Okay. Thank you for your attention, and we are open to answer any questions you might have. Thank you very much for the presentation. We will now move on to the Q&A session. For a dynamic conversation, we kindly ask you to ask your question via audio line. To do so, click on the Raise Your Hand button. If you have dialed in by phone, please use the key combination star nine, followed by star six. If you do not have the opportunity to speak freely, you can also place your question in our chat box. One first question regarding the M&A. Has the M&A environment changed for you in the recent months? Yeah, maybe I can answer this. Well, there's two sides to this. Now the entire market seems to be in the consolidation phase. As you might have realized, our main two competitors, apart from Hypoport, that withdrew more or less from the bancassurance segment. F onds Finanz and Blau, they were bought by U.S. or U.K. private equity. The multiples go up, obviously. Whereas it was possible to buy brokers 8x-10x multiples, now it's rather 10x-12 x multiples or 12x up. For bigger companies or aggregators, there's deals in the market that value the aggregators, such as Summitas, will be in the future more than 20 times. Yes, multiples go up, but on the other hand, as there's an awareness with the brokers, there's a big number of brokers coming to the market. A huge number of smaller brokers especially, that we just take in, more or less on the side. Also now the mid-size platforms all know that, you know, the air becomes very thin there, and they have to lean on bigger platforms. We can see that also, these transactions, as we saw with Top Ten, there might be more of these, coming up in the market. Thank you very much. And t here's one question in the chat: What was the reason for selling their own bonds? We, we sold to a value of EUR 2 million. The reason is that we prepare for capital calls and deferred payments. We have to pay the purchase price for Top Ten when the FMA and the BaFin agree to JDC to be the owner. The second is that Summitas is very, very active in sourcing new acquisitions, we want to pay our part, our 10%, and that's the reason why we prepare for that and sold two out of the EUR 5 million that we have on our own hand. Okay, thank you very much. We received a question by audio line. Please go ahead, Mr. Edwin de Jong. You can unmute yourself now. Okay, I think this works, or can you hear me? Very good. Hear you well. Good. Good to see you, gentlemen. A couple of questions from my side. Ralph, you were alluding a little bit on the commission income, the premium income that is now on JDC's platform. That was now EUR 1 billion, and you said a little bit by the way, and that can also mean that you can increase your commission or decrease your commission expense. How should, how should we see that? It has come down from 74% a couple of years ago to 72% in 2022. How should we see that going forward? Mm-hmm. I think we have a potential, especially in the P&C business, to increase our buying conditions by 5%- 10%, Sebastian. Gotcha. That's I think, the measure, and this is what we will keep and not pay out to the broker. We have not calculated this at the end down to the EBITDA, but it gives us much more buying power, and we will increase our buying conditions. That's a fact. Sebastian, do you agree with 5%-10%? Yeah. Okay. That would be a very large improvement. The guidance for the full year, if you look at an EBITDA of EUR 7.2 million, we know Q3 will be probably weaker compared to Q4. Now Q2 was like EUR 2.2 million in EBITDA. We're focusing a little bit on the EBITDA level. Can you give a little bit of color how you see the phasing between Q3 and Q4? Is it like Q3 being like Q2? So like EUR 2.2 million and then EUR 5 million in Q4, or is it a little bit more phased out or? How should we see it in to Advisory compared to Advisortech? Let's say Advisory should see a rebound, I guess. Yeah. I don't know how you. What we can see, Edwin, is that the level of platform activity at the beginning of the third quarter is very good. New business is 20%-25% above the previous year. That's why we think that the third quarter will be significantly better than the third quarter last year. Okay. As you as you mentioned, the 4th quarter is the strong one, and we will see the majority of the missing earnings to the gap to the guidance in the 4th quarter. I would to your to your question between advisory and AdvisorTech, I think we will we will also hit the guidance if the advisory segment would not recover this year, because our AdvisorTech segment runs very good. And we record levels there, but it would make it easier if the Advisory segment would recover fast. Sebastian, what what what is your opinion on this? Your micro. You have to unmute your mic. Yeah, we can see that, that we are, yeah, back on track on AdvisorTech. We have no, we have no reason to, to doubt that there will be a 20%+ growth in both Q3 and Q4. Advisory, as you said, we expect this to recover to positive growth. Then, as they are more hit by real estate, decreases and, and mortgage, business decrease, and also investment, that's picking up slowly. As you all know, retail customers buy stock when the stock is up, right? They just wake up now and see, see that there are record prices, so they just start to buy stock and investment funds. There, there might be, as if, if stock prices keep at the levels as they are, we see a recovery of our investment retail business as well. Yeah, as you said, strong growth in AdvisorTech and some growth in advisory. Okay. Okay, finally, there's a very general question, but it's a question that's asked on almost every analyst call I'm in at the moment, and that's on AI. So I guess you as a platform company, there should be opportunity for you to get ahead with AI. Are you already exploring options in that direction? Yeah. Yes. How are you looking at that? Definitely. What we want to avoid is window dressing, right? There's a lot of marketing speech out there on AI. Yeah But as we are the, the, data collector in the market, no other company is collecting more data, and no other company is so much prepared as we are, MORGEN & MORGEN, you might remember out of the 40 people we work, human beings we bought with, with MORGEN & MORGEN, there's more than 10, 20 data analysts. We, we do prepare to use all kinds of algorithms and then have self-learning systems, and we start with some smaller applications. Ralph will explain right now what, how we start, like, the first little steps into AI and using our data sources. Yes, I agree with Sebastian. It's like, we don't want to be the one who sells a vacuum cleaner and tells you that this is a AI-based vacuum cleaner. What I saw on a commercial this morning? We are looking on two fields at the moment. The first is, how efficient come the data into the platform? Like, could AI be a help to automatically read out all in Germany, you say AVB, the terms of the insurance products automatically and fill the platform, so that we don't need people there and we can be faster. That's one thing we work on. The second thing, but here we are in talks, in, in, in conception, not in, not in programming, to build an interface, so that you, as a customer or as a broker, can ask your questions to the insurance products in your normal speaking terms. For instance, "I lost my key. Is it insured in my household insurance?" And to bring the platform to the point to give you a qualified answer and send you a copy of the insurance policy with respecting, part of the policy. Yeah, that would make sense. Okay. That's it for now, from my side. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for your questions, Edwin. Maybe take Ben's questions from the chat now, Fleur, right? Yes, we can start with the first one. Why has the gross margin in AdvisorTech contracted in Q2? Okay, that, I think that refers to relative terms, right? In absolute terms, the gross margin grew from EUR 18.3 million- EUR 19.7 million. Ben is quite a good calculator. Obviously, that means that in relative terms, that's a small decrease from 27%-26%. The main answer is that it depends. The relative gross margin always depends on what part is new business and what part is recurring business. Because our margin on new business is around 12%-14%, and on recurring business is rather between 25%-30%. The more new business we do, the lower the margin in relative terms. I think, Ralph, that's, that hits it quite on the head, right? Yeah, that's, that's the answer. Thank you. The second question: Can you give an update on the partnership with Ecclesia? Yeah, that's Ecclesia Group, so that's the biggest broker in the market, the broker of the German churches. Yeah, we did initiate the transfer of contracts. There were some, yeah, special challenges, as Ecclesia Group showed then that they have a lot of special agreements with insurance companies, so it was not as easy to transfer the contract as with general or standard contracts. Now we have the agreement with the carriers to bring the business over. We already received the first pieces of business, we'll receive more during the course of the second half year. Thank you very much. Just a quick reminder, if there are still questions, they can ask via audio line or place in the chat. We have one question left from Ben: Can you share a little more information on the major customer pipeline beyond VKB and SV? Could the JDC organization digest any further onboardings at this stage? That's Ben, that's definitely top secret, and we won't talk about this. In general, we can say that we're quite happy with our market share in the banking business. If these roll-ups of both the savings banking sectors and the corporate banking sectors are successful, then we are the dominating platform in this banking market with more than 60% market, like theoretical market share in the bank insurance side, as both savings banks and corporate banks have more than 60% of the German banking market, that's quite okay. At the brokerage, we have 16,000 individual contracts of 34,000 brokers, I think that's fine, too. The big segment to attract is still the tied networks or the tied agent networks of the insurance companies. This is why Gothaer, for us, is such an important project, as it's the first lighthouse project with a top 15 insurer and a sales organization. There's quite a number of sales agent networks out there from the big names, and this is what we are targeting. Hopefully, there will be one or two more coming. If I say soon, you will laugh. At least there are some in the pipeline, and it's our aim to catch some of these big sales organizations, tied agent organizations of insurers. Yes, the JDC organization is quite professional in taking up new clients. Yes, we did digest most of the ones that are already named and published. We see that our patience is quite big with our banking partners, and this means that there is capacity to take on more onboardings of other projects. Ralph might deny, but he wouldn't hear. Well, thank you very much. In the meantime, we have received no further questions. We therefore come to an end of today's earnings call. A big thank you also to the management for your presentation and the time you took to answer the questions. Should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact the Investor Relations Department or us. Thanks a lot for listening, and I wish you all a lovely week. Goodbye. Bye-bye. Goodbye. Thank you, all. Thank you, Ben, for your questions. Thank you.