Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Jenoptik Conference Call regarding the results of the first half year, 2023. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode. The floor will be open for questions following the presentation. Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Dr. Stefan Traeger. Thank you very much. A very warm welcome from our end here. It's actually quite sunny city of Jena today. With me is, as always, Prisca Havranek-Kosicek, our Chief Financial Officer, our CFO, and we're delighted to share with you not just our numbers of the first half, 2023, but also to give you sort of an update of how our business developed and an outlook to the to the rest of the year. Before we get started, though, just a quick comment from my end on the latest news that the TSMC-led consortium is going to invest a lot of EUR 10 billion into a new chip factory in Dresden. Really, actually, quite literally, just a stone throw away from our own factory over there. It is, from my point of view, a very important testimony of the strengths of the chip industry here in our region. You know, we're all aware of the investment in Magdeburg by Intel, by Infineon in Dresden, by Bosch, by a number of large players. Now this next investment of EUR 10 billion in the new chip factory here in our region is, as I say, a very important testimony of the strength of this region. It also shows that our commitment and investment into this business field is going to pay off, and we are very much behind that. I think it has been the right decision to invest into our semi-con activities. It is a lot of money we put in motion here, but I'm convinced, we're all convinced, that it's the right investment. I think, say, this latest news, yeah, it's just another testimony to that. With that, just a quick overview of how Jenoptik developed in the first half, then I'll pass this floor over the mic, turn over to Prisca, to go into the numbers in more detail. From our point of view, we have seen a very strong business development in the first half of 2023. We're very proud of what our teams have made possible to come. It's been another double-digit revenue growth half year. We have seen sales growing almost 13%, and again, that's all organic, over what has been already a very strong H1 2022. Thanks to our teams for making that possible. At the same time, our EBITDA margins are operating profit, expanded yet another, yeah, leap actually, from 15.6% of sales last year to now 18.1%. Those of you who follow us, it's been a bit longer, you know that, typically, Jenoptik posts more profit in the second half than in the first half. Again, that's a testimony of the, of the strength of our company at the moment. Very proud of that, very proud of the double digit. Almost 13% sales growth is significant EBITDA margin expansion that we composed in this first half, 2023. We do see order intake slightly softer than in the comparator, compares to the H1 last year. Order intake is slightly below. Again, here, let me, let me please point out that the commercial comparator is actually very tough. We had a significant order growth, in particular in Q1, and then also in Q2 in 2022. The comparator is very tough, and that is why, yes, we do see order somewhat softening, but not to a sort of huge extent here. I think what's more important, at least very important from our point of view, is that in the first half of 2023, we still have a good visibility of well done. Despite all the efforts of us to ramp up our sales capacity, we still take more orders in than we can convert into sales. That as a result, does mean that our order backlog, not just remained at a high level, but it actually grew once again in H1 2023. We do focus on output optimization. We have communicated that we expand our capacities. We've opened up a new site in Berlin for medical technology activities. We're working hard on manufacturing in Dresden, not only in Dresden and in Berlin, we expand our capacities. We've also invested into new floor space and capacity in Jupiter, a very important site for us in Florida. We do invest into new machines here in Jena for core optics facilities. Output optimization, capacity expansion is very much in focus. Basically, another way of saying, Jenoptik is currently focusing on organic growth. We drive organic growth at the moment, and I think quite successfully. We do confirm our guidance in full. We will see substantial increase in revenue and margin expansion. We come to that at the end of the presentation, let's just say. Based on our results of H1, despite the fact that the environment might be a bit softer in some parts of the company, but overall, we have seen a strong H1, and we do confirm our guidance on sales and margin. Although we do see order intake to be somewhat below last year, but not to a large extent. With that, I'll hand over to you, Prisca. Thank you, Stefan. Good morning, and a warm welcome from my side as well. First of all, I would like to reiterate what Stefan said. We had a very strong business development in the first half of 2023, which is overall in line with our expectations. Now, let me give you some more insight into our performance on group level and start with market demand on page six. Order intake in the first half year was at EUR 547 million. As Stefan has mentioned, this is a robust level, but it is down 10% compared to the very strong prior year. As a reminder, which was also mentioned earlier, the H1 last year, both APS and FMS, generating organic order intake growth in excess of 15% each, clearly above our underlying organic growth trajectory. As was mentioned before, the comps are very high for this period. Overall, order intake in H1 was in line with our expectations. As you can also see here, our book-to-bill ratio on group level has reduced versus prior year, remains above one. We saw this development as well in the divisional levels. Similar to what you've seen at the end of Q1, our order backlog continues to be on a very high level. It was up by around 5% compared to the end of last year, which again, of course, provides us with a strong business for the coming quarters. We expect to convert roughly 60%, or in absolute terms, EUR 460 million, of this backlog into revenue within this fiscal year. Turning to revenue and profit development on page seven. We saw another quarter with strong top line development. Revenue increased close to 30% in the first half. As was already mentioned, we had no effect from portfolio changes, so this growth is purely organic, and also, as each had virtually no impact on the top line development in H1. The main growth drivers in this period were both our divisions, Advanced Photonic Solutions and Smart Mobility Solutions, where we saw the sales up with double-digit rates. Whereas in our Non-Photonic Portfolio Companies, they were processing low single-digit revenue growth. Each of our main reporting regions reported higher revenues, most notable in Asia Pacific, up by 24%, in Europe, it's +16%. Our share of revenue outside Germany remains stable at around three-quarters of our total revenue. Moving on to profitability. Looking at the right side of the slide here, you can see that again, we have improved our profitability, and the strong sales growth converts into a substantial profit and margin improvement. Group EBITDA in the first half of fiscal 2023 came in at close to EUR 92 million. In H1, we saw a top-line increase of EUR 58 million and an EBITDA increase of EUR 22 million year-over-year. That's a very solid flow through from revenue of 38%. Looking at profit from a divisional perspective, the main contributor in absolute terms is the APS division, but also the turnaround of our non-controlling portfolio companies contributed significantly. Our group EBITDA margin, Stefan has mentioned it before, rose markedly from 15.6 to 18.1, which is an expansion of 250 basis points. Stefan will go back into the divisional performance in greater detail later on this call. Now, moving to page eight, I would like to give you a little bit more color on what is driving this margin expansion and margin growth. First of all, we saw gross margin expand to 200 basis points year-over-year, driven by, A, a strong top-line growth at APS, stable margins, as well as gross margin improvements at the NPPC. In addition, as you can see here, we continue to remain disciplined in our OpEx, which results in functional expenses growing at a much lower rate than revenues. Now, let me briefly maybe also explain the planning on in our other operating results. Here you can see we are down year-over-year by EUR 7 million for two main reasons. First, we recognized some losses relating to FX, compared to a small positive contribution last year. Also, we took an impairment charge of EUR 4 million in connection with the sale of our 33% stake in Jenoptik Korea. As a background, we have taken this step to disentangle a cross-participation structure in Korea, which Jenoptik has held for many years. Since at the same time, we have signed a contract to acquire the remaining shares in the Jenoptik Korea, which we did not yet own. As a result, going forward, we will own 100% of Jenoptik Korea. This was a one-time non-cash charge, which did not impact our EBITDA line, but is included in our EBIT, which, as you can see, nonetheless, was up by 46% and reached EUR 54 million in H1. Our financial result is EUR -7.8 million. The first half year is primarily reflecting the substantial rise in interest rates, as you know, about one-third of our debt is actually in interest. EPS for the half year is up 37% to $0.56, versus $0.41 a year ago. Overall, we recorded a solid set of earnings in the first half of 2023. Turning to page nine. Looking at cash flow, what you see here is a good move forward versus last year. Seasonally, cash generation in H2 tends to be more stronger than in H1, we, we will see some more impacts there. Operating cash flow, pre-tax, is growing at a similar rate of EBITDA, that's despite some investments into working capital. There, for sure, we still have some work to do. On the investment side, as Stefan has mentioned before, we are continuing to focus on our capacity expansion. Hence, our CapEx increased to around EUR 53 million, which is up from EUR 42 million last year. Net debt increased slightly versus the end of last year, due to the dividend payment in June and tax payments, which are not included in the free cash flow. Our leverage ends at 2.4x, compared to 2.6x at the end of 2022. With this, let me turn back to Stefan to cover our divisions. Thanks, Birgit. Like always, let's start with advances on solutions. If you follow me on page 11 of our presentation deck here, you'll see our figures and numbers from APS. APS order intake declined by 9.5% this year, or this first half of the year, which is to be seen in light of a various, as I said earlier, a very challenging comparator. APS order intake in H1 2022 grew 55%. Granted, that was with acquisitions, but even organically, if you strip out the acquisition effect of the order intake growth in 2022, you still had 21% order intake growth first half last year. That's, yes, orders are a bit softer at APS, but integrated over both years, still a very, very strong order intake perspective, and development, driven in particular by our semiconductor equipment business. Revenue rose by 13.3%, and here again, I'd like to thank our team here for making that, that happen. You know, factories, in particular in the optics and micro optics arena, are... Yeah, I, how to put that? They're like running at full steam and trying to pump out as much as possible to help our customers in their endeavors to grow their businesses. Thanks to our team here, and again, very strong development in the APS business, in particular, of course, driven by semiconductor equipment. As a result, the EBITDA margin, or the EBITDA, I should say, improved again. Margin is somewhat below prior year's level, but still very strong, it's almost 22% of the K of sales. So we're, we're very happy with how APS developed. Let's go to our Smart Mobility Solutions. In a way, I'd like to almost say SMS is back to normal in many ways. Yes, auto intake here as well is, is down by 17% is significant. That said, though, let's keep in mind that last year we had some several major orders come in the first half. Importantly, book-to-bill is still above 1, and that is despite the fact that sales growth by 22.4% in SMS. A huge sales growth. That is, and that's why I'm saying back to normal, that is in light of challenges that those of you who are with us in the while will remember, as, as had last year, in particular in the first quarter, and to some extent also in the second quarter, in turning orders into sales. We were hindered by supply chain restrictions in SMS, and in particular in the first half last year. The 44.7% last year were particularly weak, and the almost EUR 55 million this year is in a way back to normal. Nevertheless, we are proud of, of course, the 22%, 22.4% sales growth, hence the fact that despite the decline in order intake, we still post more orders that we can turn into sales, which again, does mean that the order backlog grew again in the first half of this year. The result of the higher volume, the profitability, the operating profit, is again back to normal in a way. It's great to see EUR 4.4 million EBITDA for SMS, but again, it's basically back to normal from what happened in the distorted H1 last year. We go to NPC, our Non-Photonic Portfolio Companies, essentially our automotive business. Development might seem similar, yet it's quite different actually. Here, operationally, we are, well, let's say, in the process of actually turning the corner. You do see that our profit figures increased significantly. NPC contributed EUR 7 million EBITDA in the first half of this year. Yes, this is mainly driven by Prodomax, which is a very high profit organization. It's important for me to point out that also Hommel-Etamic has posted positive operating profit in the first half of this year. We do turn the corner in those businesses, which I think is promising. Sales are up slightly to now EUR 58.2 million, which is an increase in 2%. Order intake is down somewhat to now almost EUR 60 million for years in the first half. Here as well, order intake is still higher than sales, and we are still growing backlog, although in a, in a small fashion in, in NPC. If you take it together, APS continues to plow ahead. I mean, it's the only way to put it. Continues to plow ahead, in particular in semiconductor. We do have other parts in the APS business that are weaker. We all talked about those in the past already, and I'm pretty sure we will kind of go into that a bit more in the Q&A session. In particular, when it comes to TRIOPTICS and couple of other businesses as well. Overall, by and large, APS continues to plow ahead very strong, all the, sorry, sales growth results into nice, profitable margin expansion. The same, in a way, can be said for the other businesses as well. This development in the first half is the basis for us to fully wholeheartedly confirm our sales and profit guidance for 2023. We do believe that the in-update sales will come in between EUR 1.05 billion and EUR 1.1 billion at the end of this fiscal year. We do believe that we can expand our EBITDA margins to something between 19% and 19.5% at the end of this year. We do see that the order intake is somewhat softer, but still, we're not sort of falling off a cliff here in any way, shape, or form. Again, in the first half, we still did build backlog, but we'll have to see how that develops in the second half. Overall, we're very confident, and that's a good sort of baseline for further growth also in, in future years. We do see capital expenditures higher than in prior years. I think that's good news. We do believe that it's gonna peak this year and then tailing off in, in 2024 and 2025. We're looking with, yeah, overall, optimism into the future. We're certainly looking very confident into a strong second half of this year. With that, I'm looking forward to receiving a lot of questions from you. Thanks so much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the Q&A session. If you would like to ask a question, please press nine and star on your telephone keypad. In case you wish to withdraw your question, press nine and star a second time. The first question comes from Matthew in Five. May you please go ahead with your question. Yes, hi, good morning, congrats on a good set of results. Two questions, please. First of all, on APS orders. Q2 orders looked quite good, but what is the sense of development going into Q3? Have you seen anything significantly change already in July on the positive or negative side in any of your end markets that you would call out, or is that roughly on par with Q2 levels so far? Then, secondly, specifically on TRIOPTICS, I think you mentioned in Q2 that orders are not, sorry, I think you mentioned in Q1 that orders are not falling off the cliff, but we would need some improvement in H2 to secure revenues for 2024. Can you provide a rough overview if that is still the case, or if the order situation has worsened also on here, and maybe what the sense is for Q3 orders? Thank you. Yeah, thanks for your questions. I mean, obviously, we do not guide on orders, quarter-over-quarter. Quantitatively, just to give you sort of the picture here, I'd say that Q3 orders... I mean, we haven't seen any sort of major change in the last few, I mean, four weeks. Really early to tell. We haven't seen any major change in the pattern in APS overall. In particular, in TRIOPTICS, we still have the situation that order intake is weaker than anticipated. We need to generate orders there to engage the growth that we put into our business forecast and our business plans for the acquisition. In a way, those, those questions flow into, into one, and the answer is, we haven't seen a major change in the last few weeks in terms of the order intake pattern. Let me again underscore, this is not supposed to be in any way, shape, or form a guidance for Q-Q3 or anything like that. Sort of, as I say, qualitatively, the last few days and weeks, we haven't seen a major change in pattern from what we have seen in Q2. Okay, thank you. Maybe, maybe I can follow up on, on TRIOPTICS. Apple is set to release Vision Pro headsets in early 2024. Would that benefit TRIOPTICS? Have you already orders received orders for that for testing of your camera model modules? We're not legally allowed to disclose with our particular customers and customer names. As you know, we are very engaged in AR/VR applications, like, for example, the one you just mentioned. We do generate from this segment, orders and sales. At this moment, predominantly engineering orders and sales and income. We have not seen a major uptake yet for more of a volume business, but we are confident that at some point, it will turn from engineering into volume business. Again, I cannot comment on particular customer names, but the situation is the same that we had a few weeks back. Engineering income, no major volume income at the moment. Cool. Thank you very much. Yeah, wonderful. Next question comes from the line of [Cécile]. Please go ahead with your question. Yes. Hi, everyone. Good morning. I hope you're doing well. A couple of questions. First of all, on the free cash flow in the APS division, I assume that it was negative in the second quarter due to the fact that inventories built up. Is there a specific reason behind that? We didn't see that last year, in that in that pattern actually building up. Any comments are clearly welcome on this. Then the question linked to that, should we assume that we'll reverse in the second half quite strongly, in the sense of there's no danger for your cash conversion outlook? Mm-hmm. Lastly, on CapEx, actually, that is up, as, as, as was guided, for sure. I was just wondering if the second half will see even more CapEx by acceleration of what we have seen in, in the first half. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Maybe, I know, Prisca, we can put a bit more meat to the bone, but from a sort of overview here and from, from my perspective, I think you're right, that inventories, inventory build up in CAS has played a major role in Q2, which is to prepare ourselves for strong output in Q3, in particular Q4. So converting orders to sales in Q3, and this is particularly in Q4, we, or requires the working capital to support the growth there. On cash conversion guidance, I think we're, we're fully behind our guidance of more than 50%. So we'll achieve that. In CapEx, there is a major change. Maybe, Prisca, if you have more details. Maybe, maybe let me, let me give you. Maybe starting with CapEx, yes, we would expect CapEx in the second half to be above the first half of the year, also in line with what we are guiding for higher compared to previous year. On your question, APS, as Stefan has answered that, yes, we have had a season investment into working capital, but we do expect seasonally working capital in APS and overall to come down towards the end of the year. I would say I expect year-over-year an improvement, but a slight improvement. With that, that also resides that we are confident with our cash conversion guidance of about 50% working capital. I hope that answers your question. Yes, thank you. Just additional question on the cost side of things. Obviously, you had an increase in R&D, which is obviously good for an engineering-driven company. But this was more pronounced in the second quarter than your revenue growth. I was wondering if you could share with us anything specific you are working on in terms of innovative products you might share with us in this call? Thank you. A good question. I don't think there was a major shift from, like. Yes, you know, I think there's no major change in our innovation pipeline. Yeah. We are working on the same projects, as you know, across all the divisions. However, what you see in that line is a slight increase in headcount that we've seen in some of our SBUs, in particular in the APS division. You see, the effect of, of additional people in those in that line. Probably also interns innovation. Salary? Obviously, the, the, you know, salary costs overall have increased. Mm. In particular, you see additional SBUs in that, in the R&D line. Yeah, no major change, actually. There's no, like, particular project or anything that, that is, this was particularly significant that I'm aware of. All right. Thanks for having me. Yeah. The next question comes from [audio distortion]. Please go ahead with your question. Hi, good morning. I just wanted to have a question on NPC, the result there down in Q2 was, was very solid. I'm just wondering, is there been a structural improvement also in the underlying market? I, I understand that- It's a function of INTEROB no longer negatively impacting the results. I'm just wondering if anything's changed underlying. Then following on from that, is the H1 review that there would be a decent run rate for the second half and also going forward over the next few years? Thank you. Yeah, that's, you, you basically mentioned that INTEROB is a major factor, and as you said in the Q1 earnings call already, INTEROB was a big, of a drag in the past, and we flushed it out as P&L at the end of last year already. That basically, that we stopped the bleeding in this part. Other than that, it's, yeah, same as in the last quarter. Prodomax being very strong in profit, non-personal operating profit. Hommel being back, which is good. In terms of EBITDA, obviously, we do not disclose individual numbers, but Hommel as how it is EBITDA positive. I mean, it's not like multiple EUR millions, but it's, it is EBITDA positive in its own fashion, and that's good. This, I believe, is a result more of, you know, we, we did take costs out in the past, and plus the sales that we see are now sort of covering the costs better than, than in 2021 and to some extent 2022. This is a result of the restructuring that we've done in the past. The result of very strong development at Prodomax, and in particular, it is a result of us, say, flushing INTEROB out of the PNL at the end of last year. Maybe to add on to the run rate question for the profitability, I think you are right. You can, you can take that run rate very, very roughly, obviously, as a, as a decent number for the business going forward this year. Okay. Maybe one more, if I may. Just given some improvements in the business and the good cash flows, I mean, yeah, not to sort of lure you into it, any guide, so to speak, I mean, all signs seem to be more ending up towards that upper end. Is there anything you see that could change that in the near term? I guess, rather than asking what's the risk here in the second half of the year for the business? I guess the best way to answer the let's say, if you excuse some a provocative question, is to say we're very, very confident. I mean, as you know, we basically, we can sort of predict our business fairly accurately for the next few weeks and months, and for us to see a huge change in sales and profit in the remainder of the year. I mean, if you have major impact from the political environment, of course, that could mean something for us. I mean, the Russian invasion in Ukraine or, and attack on Ukraine is not having a big impact on us, and we do not depend on energy much. I, I, I have a hard time to actually come up with something, to be honest. There is no COVID anymore that could shut down a factory. I, I think we are fairly safe. Again, one never knows. Still, I, I think probably the hardest part is to make it happen, to, you know, get, keep the people motivated to work as hard as they did in the first half, work overtime and weekend shifts to, to make it happen. Other than that, I don't... No, I think you said, and I think, maybe to summarize, I think we have a high backlog, which gives us confidence, and then our operations at the moment are running smoothly, which also gives us confidence- Mm-hmm. With, with our guidance. Yeah. In a second. In particular, on the profit side, I think, which is also what you pointed out, as well, fairly safe. Great. Thanks so much. The next question comes from Warburg Research. Please go ahead with your question. Yeah, hello. My first question is on the order intake and the Smart Mobility business, that has been re- relatively strong in Q1 and H1 last year, and also the slower number. Do you see a change in the pattern here, a change in the trend, or is it just the usual movement, as you're obviously depending on some larger projects? The, the second one, there is no major sort of tender or something that we, at least not that I'm aware, that we missed. Obviously, we do now have to sell through our own channels in the U.S.. You are aware of the change to Vario Mobility. It takes some time to build up one's own channel. On the other hand, if we're successful, and at least by and large, it's, it's good thus far. So far, so good, I, I would say, which would help us to get higher margins in, in future, because then we can also do the service business, you know, the, all the software parts around it, and so on and so forth. Last year, we still had [Tattile], as I say, it's a channel, with, with different orders in the first half, which we do not have this year anymore. That is basically the change in, in, in the pattern. It takes time to build it up. It is so far so good. We did get orders from guys, not as much as we did in the past, obviously, but, if we can build this to former glory, then we should even see actually a margin expansion because of the additional, returning revenue that we would get. I guess that's a major change in, in the order, in the, in the SMS. Yep. Okay. On TRIOPTICS again, I mean, I see the first quarter call, you said that there is a pipeline, a pretty good pipeline, because customers place orders due to the situation, environment. Based on the talks you, you had with customers or the company had with customers, do you see a change in customers' mood, that they are coming closer to? Are there any indications the customers are coming closer to, to the, to the place orders, or is that visibility still relatively low when potential uptake might, might really happen? It's a bit like running with a rubber band in your back. Essentially, I'd like to say the same thing that I said at the end of, no, our earnings call Q1. At the end of 2021, I said we need to see it by summer. Now it's summer, and we're still here, no major change, which is actually not as good. It's another way of saying, no change in pipeline, but also no solid orders yet. We're in the process of following up on that much more closely now to see what is going on, and why we couldn't convert the leads into orders, into firm orders. I can't give you a clearer number or clearer statement here at this moment, simply because we're still working on that. We're hoping to see orders sort of materializing into two as we indicated. Clearly it didn't happen. We still have the pipeline intact, but we still have to work on converting those leads into firm orders. Yeah, maybe the question was a bit too early, but I'll ask it anyway. Do you see a potential upside in the pipeline and other businesses potentially offset mutual contribution then going into 2024 for new business when the situation has not changed either until the end? Yeah, it's a bit too early to, to say, really. For 2022, we're good. In 2024, we have to see. Yeah, fair enough. Okay. Back on the general order guidance, I mean, you indicated that you might fall a bit short of last year's level. I think the official guidance is kind of flat. Is that only relating to or coming from, or other other areas that, that develop as you saw many expectations? Basically across the board, I would say. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. This is absolutely not, not in here. It's across the board. Again, not... I mean, it's not, we're not expecting, not like... you put it. It's we do believe that it might come in, a bit below last year. It is more or less across the board, and that's what we appreciate at the moment. Yep. Okay, thanks. Okay. There are no further questions? We have one more question coming from [Frank Abbott], from Jefferies. Yes, hi. Yeah, unfortunately, I had to join the call very late, so this question may very well have already been asked. I apologize for that. I caught your comments just a few moments ago on the pipeline at TRIOPTICS in particular. I just wondered if you could give us a bit of color for your, all your business lines, maybe major business lines in general, but in particular, obviously, your semi optics business, in terms of tone from your major customers and, and in general, how you're seeing your order pipeline with the impact of this year and potentially, you know, first half of next year, depending whether this has turned marginally more positive, marginally more negative recently. The second question is, again, you may very well have answered, I apologize for that, but I was just wondering if you could give us a brief update on how you see the free cash flow developing across the full year. The second one, or just you want to sort of- Yes. Hello, Frank, thank you for your question. We've briefly talked about it, but let me reiterate. We're very confident with our guidance of cash conversion rate above 50%. We expect traditionally the second half is more cash generated than the first half, particularly driven by working capital levels coming down, as we are, you know, shipping our, our, our products, and we are confident with that number. I just see the opportunity to actually end the Q&A session with Semiconductor again, because I started the call with a particular-. Yeah, sorry. That's all right. I did kick it off with a quick sort of reminder for everyone mentioning the latest news on the TSMC-led consortium with another EUR 1 billion investment in Dresden. Why not ending it with that? I mean, it's phenomenal. If you think about it, how much investment there is into new chip factories in our region here, in our area, in the few kilometers between Jena and Magdeburg in Dresden, it's phenomenal. This new factory from the TSMC-led consortium, ESMC, I think it's called, is literally a stone's throw away from our own place. I mean, you don't need a very strong arm to actually throw a stone from the Jenoptik group up to their new place. That is really a testimony of how strong this industry develops. Yes, driven by geopolitical changes, and we all know that there are tensions in the industry of Taiwan, and that results into investment across the globe. Also driven by a fundamental uptake in the digitalization of our world, and that makes a huge impact. Therefore, we are grateful to our board as well, and our investors, enabling us to invest significant amounts of money and funds into investment into this area. We, we believe and we're, we're confident that it's the right thing to do. Jenoptik is now focusing on organic growth, investment into organic growth, in particular in this area. I think, as I say, those, those news is, yeah, underscores, it is the right thing to invest into this area. We will make a ton of money of that, from that going forward. Okay. Thank you very much. Maybe if we had one last closing question, get back to you real quick to the, besides TRIOPTICS, which you told a moment ago, are there any other parts of your business? I'm also thinking, I know you've got, sort of, guidance there for 2024, but, but also with a view of looking into 2024, are there any other areas besides TRIOPTICS that are causing you any potential concerns at the moment? I raised laser business, aesthetics, and other laser business across simply because of the fact that some of that is in areas that might get under pressure with the recession, at least, in, or is probably slow growth in the German and other economies. I think that's a. If you'd ask me, what are the major concerns for 2024? I mean, obviously 2024 is a long way out. We have to see. I would point towards, yes, TRIOPTICS and a part of our medical business, which is the aesthetic laser business, but it's not huge. I mean, we're talking EUR mid-double digit million figures here. I mean, we're not talking EUR hundreds of millions of states being exposed. Those are the concerns that I would, that I would have. Mm-hmm. Okay, but absolutely, current, current levels is still okay. I, I know you're not going to give us precise numbers, but. We need the orders for TRIOPTICS, so that we can turn it into sales, and then the profitability will be okay. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. You are welcome. We have now one more question coming from Peter of [audio distortion]. Please go ahead with your question. Yes. another question on order intake trends. Does this mean also in the semiconductor business that is some, some, some slight decline, or is semiconductor still very stable? Stable. Okay. Does this mean semicon offers, further growth potential in terms of sales for, for 2024, with increasing order backlog? We're just trying to corner us here. Touching on that this year, but, but yes, I think the, the fair answer would be yes. Okay. A last question regarding the financial results. We're seeing another deterioration in the second quarter versus the first quarter. Do you think this financial results, we are now EUR -4.3 million, could be a run rate for, for the upcoming quarters as well? Yes, thank you. Also, the question, I think you, you could take the half year as a proxy, you know, for the, for the run into the second year. Yes, lastly, also the second quarter, but I would take the, the first half. Okay. Thank you. Now we have no more questions from the audience. Well, thank you very much for being with us today. It's been a strong first half operationally. Again, to reiterate, we still have a profitability of one despite the fact that we do all we can to expand our capacities and we grow organic sales by almost 13%. Let's see what the second half brings in terms of order intake, but we do not expect any major changes in pattern here. We are very confident in our on our guidance, both in terms of sales and in terms of profitability. We're very, very confident that we can see a very strong 2023. With that said, again, thanks for being with us today. The conference is no longer being recorded.