Good day. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Outokumpu Pre Silent Conference Call Q1 2021. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you'll need to press star one on your telephone. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. If you require any further assistance, please press star zero. I'd now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Linda Häkkilä. Please go ahead. Thank you, operator. Hello, all, and welcome to Outokumpu's Q1 2021 Pre-Silent Conference Call. My name is Linda Häkkilä, and I'm the Head of Investor Relations here at Outokumpu. With me today, we have our CFO, Pia Aaltonen-Forsell. We will today start first with Pia's comments. We are happy to take your questions. Now, without any further explanation, I will hand over to Pia. Thank you, Linda, and good afternoon, everybody, or good morning. I certainly hope you are all staying safe and keeping well. At least here in Finland, it's a sunny spring day today, so also enjoying a bit of sunshine now for a change. With that said, I think that's a good bridge also now to our Q1 comments and highlights what to share. Of course, I would like to start with a few comments from the market. We have talked about the recovery in the demand side here since already late 2020, and certainly, we have seen this continue, also through 2021, and maybe even from a segment perspective, seeing this now more across the board, whereas appliances and automotive were really sticking out in positive ways, early on when the kind of post-pandemic recovery started. We can see this more sort of across the board of most segments, all industrial segments. Seeing only few exceptions, maybe worth mentioning is those around hospitality, still hotels, restaurants, et cetera, and also still at this point, a bit slow on the beer brewery side as well. Otherwise, really seeing recovery. Obviously, we have the guidance out there on volumes, saying that our stainless steel deliveries are expected to increase 10%-20% in Q1 compared with the previous quarter, and certainly still sticking to that, I would say, maybe even leaning a bit more towards the higher end of that. Also to that, obviously, we have seen our capacity utilizations being on a good level. I would especially emphasize there that we see the recovery now through the standard grades, the plastic grades. That means that, for example, our Tornio route, is one of the really important ones now and really keeping a very high capacity utilization there. I wasn't planning on really commenting sort of our figures for sales prices. Just based on the data published, for example, from CRU, we can certainly see that this improved demand has also been visible then in stainless steel prices, having increased really through the quarter. Talking about higher prices, obviously, I would mention ferrochrome pretty early on here. We now have the benchmark price already settled for the Q2. It's actually up 32% compared with the Q1 and now then, on $166 per pound. This is really approaching now the top levels of 2017, a really good and fast uptick there. Obviously, this started already in late Jan, with the Chinese spot prices increasing and they have also kept at the higher level. Maybe those were really the main points from the market side. If I then look at a few highlights, obviously seeing the increased demand, and really important question is also scrap availability and raw material impacts. First of all, we are still satisfied with the scrap availability that we have, even though obviously this higher demand situation has also there increased the demand and resulted in a somewhat tighter market, but we are still able to operate at really good levels. Just also then from raw material impacts, to P&L also on a sort of general level, looking at ferrochrome prices, looking at nickel prices. Even though nickel really dropped a lot towards really the end of March, still if we look, for example, average quarter-on-quarter, we have been on more than EUR 1,000 per ton, higher prices there, maybe even a bit more on average. Yeah, on derivatives, not so much to say, Small number there, a small positive number on the hedging side. On the other raw material impacts to the P&L, I would say that this sort of upward trend usually then is a positive sign there. Maybe one sort of a little bit odd metal is worth mentioning there. Iron actually has also increased more than 25% during the quarter, and that's pretty unusual. The final point maybe in my opening remarks, we launched our new strategy in November of last year, and we also had several improvement actions starting immediately. Those included, for example, negotiations with our personnel. As we already informed, even before our Q4 report, we have completed those negotiations according to our plans. I think the general message I just want to give that also vis-a-vis the actions that we wanted to take based on our strategy, I think we're off to a good start, and that's also something that we will then be able to share more concrete results after our Q1 result release. I think with that said, those were some of the highlights from the quarter, and as always, would be really happy now to take questions and maybe dig a bit deeper into some of the interesting areas here. Operator, I would be ready for the questions now. Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you'll need to press star one on your telephone, and to withdraw your question, it's the hash key. That's star one to ask a question. Your first question today is from the line of Seth Rosenfeld from Exane. Please go ahead. Good morning, Pia. Thank you for hosting today's call and taking our questions. Obviously, it's been a very strong recovery in the stainless market over recent weeks. I'm wondering if you can touch on first the outlook for your product mix. I think when we spoke last earlier in the year, you flagged that the recovery in more standard grades was having a negative impact on the product mix, as specialty grade recovery was lagging that of commodity grades. How are you seeing that progressing now going into Q2? With the broader base recovery and demand, is there any opportunity for the mix to begin to improve further as we look forward into spring? I'll start there, please. Yes. Thank you, Seth. Good morning. Yes, indeed, a very good question. What we have talked about earlier is still obviously true for the realized mix in Q1. Out of the recovery that we saw earlier, it was really predominantly the standard grades. What we are seeing now in our order intake is a more broad-based recovery. I would, though, still say that there is maybe one exception that is worth noting on top of what I said earlier, and it is that the scrubbers business that has been one of the important business in our value-added selection is still very slow. There are some other interesting projects into significant industrial projects, or there's even some sort of oil and gas-related projects that it's come to life, the wrong way of expressing it, but where there's clearly movement happening now and some pretty big projects are at least in a bidding phase, and some even come to a realization phase. With all of that said, I would say that this gives some base for also the mix starting to improve when we are just looking more forward. Still for Q1, obviously, it is really a mix with really predominantly a lot of the standard grades. Very clear. If I could have a second question, please, with regards to ferrochrome. Obviously, phenomenal recovery in the spot market and now also in the Q2 European benchmark. Can you please give us an update on your own product mix? I know that there's been a structural shift towards less spot exposure, more contract exposure. What will that impact be on Q1 and into Q2? Secondly, are there any lags we should be aware of with regards to the realization of the European benchmark, or should we expect that full EUR 56 to be hitting you in Q2? Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. The question was super relevant last year, especially as the drop also in internal demand was significant on the back of lower stainless steel demand. We were really exposed to the spot market in a situation where also spot prices were very low. At the moment, obviously, we see both the Chinese spots as well as now for Q2, the European benchmark being on a much clearly higher level. There wouldn't be such a big difference between the two in these market conditions. I would still say that based on what we communicated last year, we have engaged in a high share of long-term contracts. Obviously, with the higher stainless steel demand now as well, the share of internal demand is also somewhat higher than last year. All of this drives more towards the pricing that is based on the European benchmark, I would say clearly. That is why also in the Q4 report, we also wanted to say that the rise of the spot price doesn't have that significant of an impact. What's really important is the benchmark price. Thank you. The lag of realization, I hope that kind of answered that question as well. We are really, the benchmark price is an important pricing mechanism for us now. Thank you. Just a last follow-up. Is the historic guidance of a, I think, EUR 10 million EBITDA impact for each $0.10 move in ferrochrome, does that still stand, or is there any difference with regards to mix or cost structure to alter that? Yeah. I think, as a rule of thumb, and obviously that's per quarter, I just add that, but that's how it's been all the time. I just want to say yes, that is still relevant. Then, there is also, I think what we need to take into account a few more topics there, and one of them obviously is the U.S. dollar to Euro rate as well. If we see a strengthening of the U.S. dollar, obviously that's been more positive for us once we translate it, et cetera. There could be some delta from that, but that rule of thumb still applies. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harri Taittonen from Nordea. Please go ahead. Yes, good afternoon, Pia. I just want to know if you can help us being prepared for the result and the guidance that you will be giving. I mean, with the current management, what is the way you tend to communicate, or is there some sort of verbal code for the situation when you are guiding the next quarter's result? I mean, is it possible to give a feel of what sort of practice you will use when communicating t he outlook? Yeah. Good afternoon, Harri. What a good question. I think actually your question gives me first the opportunity to just maybe say that we have been, in a way, quite straightforward, but you could also say simplistic in that, when it comes really to our EBITDA guidance, I mean, we tend to say it's higher or it's lower, or maybe it's stable. I know of some companies that have used much more graceful sort of scales and adjectives and explaining more, but we tend to be a bit more straightforward to this extent. This is at least now how we've done it over an extended period of time, and I would say, that's what we have done and most likely will stick to now also in the future. That's maybe a first starting point. I think it is important to continue to talk about the demand and the volumes for the next quarter and there you've also seen us have a practice now with giving some sort of range when it comes to volume change in percentages. I think that's as much as I can say. I definitely recognize also that there could be sometimes a style of being more, how should I say, more forward-leaning or more optimistic or then of being very realistic. I hope that we can try to be tone in trying to be as open as we can early in the quarter. I don't see a big change to the philosophy or the style how we have done it until now. No, that's very good. Useful and happy with that. Just wanted to clarify because there could be some people who are then starting to look for additional color. Yes It's good to know it in advance. Yeah. Yeah, well, maybe just a follow-up on the ferrochrome. I think there's been a little bit of softening or maybe from the high appreciation. I mean, is there something you still would like to say about that market or the observations like going forward? Yeah More talking about the outlook when the result is out. Yeah. Sure. No, I think there's many really interesting and very relevant elements around it, and now I guess that everyone on the line is really into the details here, but I'll still recap the main points. I mean, obviously, the almost rally in prices that started in late January from the Chinese index or spot price was clearly driven by simultaneously a really good demand because stainless steel obviously also then in the more Western world had started to grow in demand, and we know that in Asia, the pickup happened already earlier. At the same time, then a lot of supply restrictions, Inner Mongolia, but also still COVID-related troubles, whether Kazakhstan or South Africa, et cetera. There has certainly been some sort of economic theory rationale for why it happens. We can think of what do we understand and what do we see in the market. I agree with you that some very recent data show maybe not a weakening, but at least a stabilization. Exactly. Yeah. How should I say? Looking for where the stable level will be. There, I would say that what we have learned historically is that with such high prices, there has been a supplier response. I mean, some earlier sort of furloughed capacity or otherwise have been brought up to line and up to speed. I think that's what we've learned from history. History has some sort of tendency to repeat itself. I think we are still on really good levels. Also, what we see in terms of our own operations and our own production, obviously, this is that one year in every four years when we don't have a big maintenance break. It will also allow us to really push the production in this good market environment. Yeah, that is well planned. Good timing. Yeah. Exactly. We have these very long-term cycles. Yes. Excellent. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thanks, Harri. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Alan Spence from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Thanks, Pia. On the volume guidance, can you just give us a bit of sense of how you're seeing the U.S. versus Europe, and which one might be pulling up that average and which one pulling it down? I think without exaggerating, we do see the recovery now on both sides of the Atlantic. To be fair, obviously, the sort of COVID-related news going forward, they seem to be more encouraging in the U.S. Just to give the practical example that we know that, for example, in our operations, we already have a fairly large portion of our employees, for example, having been vaccinated. Things just progress more rapidly on that area on the other side of the Atlantic. That's not visible really if I look at the volume guidance and whether the growth is from Europe or America. I think we can see the growth in both. Okay. Sticking on the U.S. with ATI's exits, can you give us any updates around conversation with customers, confidence in taking some of that market share, when you might start delivering to new customers? Yeah. I would say, my take on it is that following the ATI announcement, the customers already took their peaks. I think we have got our, if I could call it fair share. Yeah, there might be some customers that are new, but it could also be more around just share of wallet that we can get. Obviously, from U.S. geographic point of view, it does leave a certain area where ATI was strong, where certainly now customers have to look for the options. We think this has pretty much already happened. Okay. If I just understand that you're kind of, I believe your typical market share was around 25% there, correct me if that's wrong. Maybe you're saying maybe you get a quarter of those volumes up for grabs. Am I understanding that? Yeah. Now the market share of theirs that you cited seems a little bit on the upper end of what I would have thought. Still, I would say that if we now talk about their standard grades, like really the standard grades that they are giving up on, then I would say that pretty much customers have been looking for new suppliers already. I'm sorry. I don't think I understand your answer. Yeah. Are you saying you don't expect to get incremental volumes from ATI's exit? Yes, we do expect, and I think that they are probably already in the books. Okay, fine. Thank you. That's all for me. Yes. Thank you, Alan. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ioannis Masvoulas from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Hello. Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my questions. The first question is around the European business and the long-term contracts. How should we think about the year-over-year developments for contracts that you signed, I guess, between December and January? Are you getting enough upside given the spot price dynamics, or could that be diluted to your overall realized pricing for at least for Q1? I'll stop here for the first one. Yeah. Thank you, Ioannis. I think this is a good question, and to be transparent, the environment where we agreed about annual contracts towards the end of last year, if you just look at the price curves, you can see that there maybe had started certainly to be an upward movement compared with the low points during the summer. We have certainly, at least based on CRU data, seen a more rapid movement upwards after that. I think the fair assumption is to say that these are probably somewhat dilutive in the pricing overall because really for spot prices, the CRU data shows that there's been a rapid increase, whereas the annual contracts would then more be set in a slightly more, almost not bearish, but in a sort of lower market sentiment. I don't want to exaggerate this. It's not a huge figure. It's definitely for Tornio, it's a double-digit figure, but not more than that. Okay. Just from my understanding, what sort of percentage of the volume overall are we talking about when it comes to Europe that is linked to long-term contracts? Yeah. The history was that we had a very high percentage and that typically these were also alloy surcharge-based, and we haven't really published how much it is these days. You know that the pricing mechanism in Europe shifted very heavily, like really the majority towards effective pricing. We are talking definitely about the smaller share here. I think that's as much as I can say. It's definitely clearly below 50%, maybe I'll leave it there. Okay. No, that is helpful. The second question, can you talk about lead times in Europe and the U.S. right now and how have they developed, let's say, relative to the beginning of the year, if there has been any change? Well, lead times have clearly extended, and I think this is true for both Europe and U.S. We are actually, as we speak, selling into Q3 right now. I don't want to exaggerate this, but for certain grades we are certainly even selling into Q4. If we talk more standard, especially for Europe, we are now clearly into Q3 territory here. Also for Americas where typically we have a little bit less of lead times. We are also really extending right now and could be selling into August. Lead times are longer. Understood. Okay. Thank you. The last question from me, in terms of the raw material related inventory gains that you alluded to, could you perhaps quantify what sort of figure we're looking at? Within that, when do you book the gains on ferrochrome in terms of the inventory? Is it a Q1 or a Q2 EBITDA effect? There will be some impact already in Q1. There will be some positive impact already in Q1. I think I have typically not said the exact amount. Here is as much as I can say. First of all, the hedging impact is very close to zero. It's a little bit positive, but it's really close to zero. The other raw material related impacts. This time they are positive, both from ferrochrome, from nickel, and from iron. I think this figure for us, if I look long-term over the quarters, sometimes it's been -20, sometimes it's been +20. These are the typical magnitudes that we have. What is maybe a little bit remarkable about the quarter is that we really throughout these three nickel, ferrochrome, and then also iron have this definite push in all of those. That's very helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Patrick Mann from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you very much for taking my question, Pia. I wanted to ask, I think a slightly longer term question around the strategy. My understanding of the strategy was it had quite tight CapEx controls for 2021 and 2022, where you were going to limit it to EUR 180 million. Only really once Deep Mine was finished would you look to further capital investments which would improve productivity and give you a bit more competitiveness. I'm just wondering in this very strong price environment, is it possible or are you thinking about bringing your strategy forward? Is it possible for you to maybe get to where you wanted to be in terms of products and investment in productivity, et cetera? Could that come forward? Yeah. I think that's a really well-timed question. Patrick, thanks very much for that. It gives me the opportunity maybe to say two really different things. The first one is that obviously from our technological and engineering teams, we have not stopped thinking and planning ahead. Obviously there is a pipeline of potential things that are being evaluated by a small group of people. We do keep our eye on things. I just want to be really clear that we stay committed to the targets that we set for the first phase of the strategy. We talked about 2021 and 2022. We talked about the scrutiny on CapEx still through 2022 because exactly as you said, we are still working with the Deep Mine and that still takes a quite significant chunk of the EUR 180 as we speak, both in 2021 and in 2022. Obviously, we stay committed to our targets, and those targets were that we wanted to deliver the EUR 200 million EBITDA run rate improvement, and then we wanted to make sure that our leverage is below three times. I think we are absolutely committed to delivering those targets as a priority. Restricting the CapEx helps that. Once we have reached those targets, obviously then we will launch the next phase. We will be also elaborating more on what investments could be about here. Okay. Sorry, I'm again just trying to make sure I understand. It's possible that it comes forward, but as long as the balance sheet is under 3x and you're making progress. Yes. Is that the right way to think about it? Yeah. Is EUR 180 million for 2022, let's say, completely non-negotiable, that is the limit? Well, I would say it's completely non-negotiable until we have reached the specific targets that we set out for ourselves. Okay. That's very clear. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Seth Rosenfeld from Exane. Please go ahead. Morning. There one more question from my side, please. Sure. Wondering if you can comment on the European Union Emissions Trading System, please. In recent weeks, I believe that the benchmark for free allocation was cut quite dramatically for EAF and for stainless, and with the benchmark falling above 24% versus prior. You'll receive much less reallocation than in the last set. Is that what you were expecting? How will that impact your expected inventory position with EUA credits? On that basis, can you provide an update for when you would expect to be net short carbon credits and be acquiring on an annual basis hitting P&L? Yeah. Thank you, Seth. That question first, were we surprised or not, this links to our sustainability strategy, where actually we would be happy to share some more details also with our capital markets update in May. The reason I'm saying that is that we have been prepared for a scenario where emission rights get more scarce and, through that, obviously, being prepared for a scenario where we also need to work very much on reducing emissions. As you know, based on our science-based targets, we already have the target set for the year 2023. Obviously, at the moment, we also need to think and go beyond what are then the next steps. A little bit more about that will follow. Obviously, still at end of last year, we were clearly at a surplus. Now, Seth, I don't remember if we actually disclosed the figures. I would say based on the sort of previous forecasts that I have seen, then we are still many years out from having to start to be a net buyer here. Based on the surplus that we still have and are able to move between the programs and then sort of the balance of what our emissions are and the new rights that we get. The new program for sure this is getting stricter and stricter. Maybe, I don't want to completely pass on that question without giving an answer, but I think we can give a more specific answer when we also are more clear on our targets going forward in this area. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Seth. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Luke Nelson from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for taking our questions. First question is just on European market, just relative to your guidance. Are you growing in line with market or do you think you're taking share across the main product segments? That's my first question. Yes. Hello, Luke. Thank you very much for the question. I think that we are at the moment seeing import quotas filling, but with less speed maybe than in some previous quarters. Just looking at the data, it is clear that imports are somehow also restricted by logistics costs and by the general dynamic of the market. In that sense, my take on the situation is that there is also some sort of shift here, which gives us some more room. That's my best estimate. Obviously, all the data are not available yet, so this is more based on what we have seen now in the first month of the quarter. I suppose within the domestic share of shipments. Are you maintaining share or growing share relative to domestic peers? Yeah. That one is slightly more difficult for me to answer yet without the figures. I think we are very much in line and even towards the upper end of our volume guidance. I think at least we have seen a good speed here during the Q1. I don't know what the others are saying. Okay, thanks. That's useful. Just on the Americas. Yes On the cost side, there's obviously some pretty severe weather in Q1. Indeed. Yes. Is there anything that we should be factoring in in terms of additional cost, transport, et cetera, from any weather events? Yeah. I think it's a fair question. The really interesting thing is, obviously, you sort of really had a big upset and turbulence in Texas, and it's not too far from Alabama. Yes, indeed, some days were rather rough and tough. The interesting side effect or consequence of this, was also some challenges vis-à-vis Mexico, et cetera. I still want to say it's not been a walk in the park. Definitely these weather conditions were also, to some extent, causing, I would say, challenges. On the other hand, you haven't seen any announcement from us relating to that. I think if it would have been really significant, we should have flagged it. I just want to recognize that no one can sort of, you know, fear the weather, and we also had to some extent suffer from it, but I don't think that there was operationally any significant impact. That's very clear. My final question, just touching back on Seth's question on ferrochrome with the sensitivity that you typically talked about. Yes I mean, 2020, the benchmark went up. Yes Your contribution to the pricing went down. Yes. Just given the mix effect, should we be expecting catch-up for the lost sensitivity in 2020 as you get more mix back to long-term contract could actually be above that EUR 10 million per quarter return? Yeah. I do think it's fair. I would put sort of a small plus sign there saying, yes, there is probably something in it. I don't want to change that sort of basic dynamic of that sensitivity calculation per se. I just think this is not so easy to just answer with one sort of figure, simply because last year it was detrimental to have more spot because there was really also the spot prices were also really low. In the current market conditions, you have both sort of spot and now the benchmark price for Q2 at a good level. There's also not maybe the same sort of significant negative deviation. Some catch-up, I mean, definitely we are now at sort of very low spot levels at the moment. Sure. That's really useful. Maybe sort of last question just on cash flow and maybe just on working capital, if you can give any good indication or quantify on how that's progressed over Q1. Yeah. Thank you very much. That's a good question. I think a couple of things sort of worth mentioning on the cash flow. Overall for the year total, we have been sort of pressing down working capital over several years, and we said we now sort of reached the limit where we want to make sure that we keep up the good performance, and particularly the good relative performance. Even sort of really striving towards balancing the working capital for the year. Obviously, we can talk more about that towards the end of the year when we see the specific demand conditions that apply then. However, the Q1 usually for us is somewhat of an investment into working capital. With the increased volumes, I think that's sort of a safe assumption that normal dynamic applies. We had quite a big figure in Q1 of last year. I think the investment was more than EUR 100 million, and I think we have sort of tried to really be as diligent as we can. But at the same time, still just want to say really openly, this dynamic is that there is an investment working capital in the Q1. Great. That's very clear. Thanks a lot for the call. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anssi Kiviniemi from SEB. Please go ahead. Hi, Pia. Hi, Linda. A couple of questions also left from my side. Kicking off with Americas and the ferritic investment. What is the situation of the investment and ramp-up currently, and is there any clear impact on earnings in short term, meaning Q1 and Q2? That's the first one. Yeah. Thank you, Anssi. A really good question, especially as we have been really proud of the fact that we got this up and running sort of late Q4 of last year. I mean, clearly we are already delivering to customers and then the balancing act for us here is now, on the one hand, sort of taking our fair share of the market and sort of establishing us here, and at the same time facing an overall good demand situation, which gives a range of opportunities. I would say, very much moving according to plan, maybe for the Q1, I don't want to talk about a significant earnings impact. The earnings impact that is there is positive, but I certainly don't want to sort of talk about the big number. Okay, that's clear. A small positive. Yes The second question is a bit more broader. I mean, if we look at Q1, volumes are clearly up, prices are up in Stainless quite markedly. The mix is still weak. Contracts perhaps slightly lower. Raw materials are up, scrap market this side. That's a lot of arrows basically pointing in different directions. Yeah I was wondering if you could help us a bit on what has happened to stainless margins in Europe and in U.S. in early 2020? Yes. I know that you don't want to give anything specific. Yeah indications, I think we all would be really thankful of that. Yeah. Hey, directionally, I still think there's a few things that are really sort of fair to mention here and also very much in line with what we have talked about earlier. As you know, obviously, the prices from a stainless steel perspective, the prices of ferrochrome and nickel and even the iron that I mentioned, I mean, of course, sort of the key thing is here then that when we are pricing with our customers, that we get this impact also through our sales prices. I think I sort of alluded to that even in the Q4 call, just saying that in the market environment where we see the demand coming back sort of almost throughout the segments. Of course, this is still the sort of environment as well, where the kind of metal movements that we see shouldn't be disruptive, but rather the market should then support just taking this into account in the prices as well. I certainly don't want to change that message. I clearly want to say that, a good market environment is helpful also from this extent. Even though we still have effective pricing, particularly in Europe as a really important pricing mechanism, but there is sort of a market that recognizes the fact that a lot of the input factors have also increased. Maybe that's sort of as far as I can go, just sort of indicating kind of the sentiment around the topic. I still want to say that maybe this is sort of just a good indicator as well. We talked about the raw material related inventory and then also hedging gains earlier and that's typically also something that we are trying to follow up, on one hand, what we sort of call the underlying sort of operative business performance and then sort of have on top of it, these raw material related inventory gains and hedging gains, all of this of course as well. I think that now we also have a quarter where clearly sort of the direction for that raw material related inventory gains and hedging gains is positive, which is then also supportive to the margin. Okay, that's very helpful. I think that's sort of what I can say. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was enough. Thank you for that. Have a happy Easter, guys. Thank you. The same. Thank you. There are no further questions at the moment, so I'll hand back to the speakers. Thank you very much, thank you for the good questions. I want to say we have sort of touched broadly on the elements of demand, of course, and also to some extent of the cash flow elements here. Obviously, when we meet after the Q1 results, we will also be able to share some more details about the strategy execution and the progress of that. With that said, thank you all very much, and I hand back to Linda. Thank you, Pia. Thank you all for participating our conference call today. Before we close the call, I would like to remind that we are publishing our Q1 2021 results on May 6th. Thank you once again, and have a happy Easter. Thank you. That does conclude the conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.