Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Bouygues Conference Call on Equans. I'll now hand you over to Karine Adam, Head of Bouygues Investor Relations. Please go ahead. This is not Karine Adam speaking. It's Olivier speaking. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for being with us to discuss the proposed Equans transaction. With me in the room, there is Pascal Grangé, Deputy CEO and CFO of Bouygues. Before starting this call, I remind you that we cannot talk about the nine months, 2021 figures as we are in a quiet period. They will be disclosed next week on Tuesday 16th. Now this clarification has been made. Let's talk about our strategy. Let's go to the slide three. As we had explained during the first half 2021 results, our strategic target intend to strengthen the positioning of the existing business segment as they are all present in promising markets. In our environment, driven by energy transition and the growing needs of our customers to decarbonize, we also want to grow the portfolio of sustainable products and services to seize new business opportunities. Last, we want to differentiate through innovation, quality, and proximity. Our development strategy is selective and disciplined to maintain a robust financial structure and promote value creation. In the first half 2021, we achieved a first milestone with the proposed merger of TF1 and M6 to create a major French media group. Colas has also announced the acquisition of Destia to reinforce its exposure in Northern Europe. Today, we achieve a major strategic move in the energy and services sectors with the proposed acquisition of Equans. Slide four. Indeed, the three major transitions underpin the buoyant multi-technical services market, as we show on the slide four. First, the energy transition with the expected increase of energy demand in electricity in Europe. Second, the digital transition resulting from the surge of data and need for connectivity. Third, the industry transition with increased automation and IT integration. These three global market trends offer long-term growth opportunities. Slide five. Furthermore, as we shine a light on this slide, the energy and services markets offer an attractive and resilient business model with strong value-enhancing fundamentals. First, a wide, diversified, and loyal customer base with a low average contract value, providing resilience and a high level of recurring revenues. Second, this is asset-light activity requiring limited CapEx. Third, they generate strong cash flow, providing a solid financial profile. Slide six. In this environment, as shown on this slide, we consider Equans as a unique opportunity to boost our development into multi-technical services. Indeed, the combined entity will be a France-based global player in a strategic sector with strong development opportunities. It will become the group's first business segment in terms of number of employees and also in terms of turnover, and it will strengthen the resilience of its business model. Moreover, we have a long-term vision and are committed to supporting the combined entity. I will now hand over the floor to Pascal Grangé, who is going to present an overview of Equans and the rationale behind the proposed transaction. Thank you, Olivier, and good afternoon, everyone. Let me start by reviewing the main businesses of Equans. Equans is present in five key segments of multi-technical services. HVAC and refrigeration, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering and robotics, facility management, as well as digital systems and telecom networks. It also has other smaller activities such as apartment building renovation activities and asset-based activities. Equans brands are strong. In particular, Axima is identified as a leader in HVAC, Ineo is well known in electrical services, and Fabricom is a recognized brand in multi-technical installation services in Belgium. Equans is the world's number two player in the energy and multi-technical services market, with strong positions in France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the U.K., and sizable footholds in North America, Central and Eastern Europe, Latin America, as well as Australia and New Zealand. The combination with Bouygues Energies & Services will offer promising development opportunities. As we highlighted on slide eight and based on 2020 revenue, the combined entity will become the second-largest multi-technical services company following VINCI Energies, combined with Atos energy business and well ahead of the next competitors. Just a quick word on the structure of our operation. Bouygues SA will buy Equans from Engie. Following the closing of the acquisition of Equans by Bouygues SA, Bouygues Energies & Services will be separated from Bouygues Construction and will be contributed to Equans to build a strong and unified business dedicated to multi-technical services. Bouygues SA will own 100% of the combined entity. As you can see on slide 9, the new entity will have very good geographic complementarity with limited overlap. It will operate in more than 20 countries worldwide, with robust positions in the many European countries and promising opportunities for expansion in North America. The combined entity will enjoy a significant share of its revenues in international markets, as shown on the right side of the slide. This new entity will also enjoy a dense branch network in France and Switzerland that will bring the business closer to local customers. Geographic complementarity is not the only strength of this deal. The combined entity will be perfectly placed to grasp new business opportunities and to accentuate its differentiation by leveraging its innovation capability, business quality, and local footprints. The new entity will offer services along the whole value chain that will be enhanced by the respective strengths and the expertise of each group. Equans is well positioned in electrical engineering and telecom via Ineo, in climate control via Axima, and in multi-technical installations via Fabricom. Equans also has an established expertise in specialized segments such as the public transport, process industries, and defense and marine industries. Bouygues Energies & Services is strong in telecom, transport, and energy infrastructure, as well as facility management and industrial and property maintenance. This business combination will also provide opportunities to employees who are the heart of the Bouygues Group approach, as evidenced on slide 11. The combination of Equans and Bouygues Energies & Services will create a team of around 96,000 employees united by common values. The deal will generate many attractive long-term career opportunities within the group's business segments, both in France and internationally. Employees will have access to high-quality skills development and training programs. Furthermore, the Bouygues Group pledges to carry out no forced redundancies in France and Europe for at least five years from the deal's date of completion. The group also commits to create over 10,000 net new jobs over the next five years in response to the expected strong demand growth for the various services provided by Equans. Finally, Equans employees will have a strong incentive to drive value creation within the new entity via the phased alignment of employee benefits to match gradually those already offered by Bouygues. We estimated that the potential for synergies at the current operating profit level under normal operating conditions are between EUR 120 million and EUR 200 million, as we explained on slide 12. 200. 200. You said 20. 200. The vast majority of these synergies are in procurement coming from volume massification and price alignment. The other part will come from revenues and the selling general and administrative expenses. Ahead of these synergies, we have some one-off cumulative costs of around EUR 60 million to implement them. We are convinced that this deal will clearly create value over the long term, as shown on slide 13. Value creation will come from three main sources. First, the strong improvement in Equans profitability. Second, the contribution of Bouygues Energies & Services already ahead in terms of margin compared to Equans. And third, synergies we have already mentioned. Equans will aim to generating a midterm current operating margin over 5%. When I say midterm, I mean midterm beginning after the transaction closing date. This will be achieved by rolling out an operational efficiency plan in the new entity based on what we are already delivering at Bouygues Energies & Services. Before, keep in mind that Equans has been set up very recently and gathers many different entities. The first step in this short term will be to unify processes and IT systems, which could require, as a first estimation, additional CapEx of around EUR 150 million over the first two years. Future OpEx will include expenses related to the new Equans team, as well as IT expenses like cybersecurity or reinforcement licenses, et cetera. As a result, the current operating margin of the combined entity according to Bouygues' definition should gradually improve from 3% to more than 5%. In parallel, we will activate synergies and work on quick wins. We will start with procurement, benefiting from a bigger size through, for example, alignment price and massification. We will support a strategy already implemented by Equans management regarding the improvement of efficiency and profitability. Efforts will focus on improving contract management with management of loss-making contracts and better pricing of new contracts. We will also leverage the transformation plan deployed for two years at Bouygues Energies & Services based on increasing commercial selectivity, optimizing operating performance, and expanding a cash-focused structure. We are confident that Equans will follow a similar path as this plan already bears fruit at Bouygues Energies & Services. As a matter of fact, the commercial margin of new contracts in the backlog has increased from 3% to 4% in the past 18 months. Regarding cash, client receivables were reduced by two-thirds in number of days between end June 2019 and end June 2021. In the medium term, value creation will also come from growth opportunities in attractive segments, commercial and operational excellence, and M&A. In terms of price, as you can see on slide 14, I want to clarify some points. The enterprise value of EUR 7.1 billion communicated by Engie is inflated by the lease obligation debt for an amount of around EUR 0.4 billion as of 31st of December, 2020. We consider that these charges must be factored in our P&L to reflect the reality of cash expenses. This explains why we report an EBITDA after leases at Bouygues Telecom. As a result, we consider that our offer of EUR 6.7 billion in enterprise value provides a better economic view. This view is in line with the price ranges indicated in the press rumors between EUR 4 billion and EUR 6 billion at the end of the process on EUR 6 billion to EUR 7 billion lately. Our valuation not only reflects the expected improvement in Equans' future cash flows, but also part of the synergies generated by the combination with Bouygues Energies & Services activities. The net debt impact should be slightly below EUR 6.7 billion based on the usual adjustments between enterprise value and equity value, such as pensions and working capital adjustments, and the estimated financial debt consolidated by Bouygues at closing. This deal will also be significantly aggressive for Bouygues Group earnings per share in year one. Based on 2021 consensus for Bouygues net income, the element I gave you during this call, an effective financing cost on the figures of Equans circulating in analyst reports, EPS accretion reaches more than 10% before taking into account any synergy. Last, I would like to say that this acquisition is already fully secured through the group's existing resources and a fully secured bank loan from partner banks. This loan will ultimately be subject to a bond refinancing. I want to emphasize that this loan does not include any covenant or rating clauses. I am now returning the floor to Olivier for the conclusion. To conclude on slide 15, I would like to say that the transaction has already received the unanimous agreements of the relevant employee representative bodies within the Bouygues Group. Those of Engie and Equans will be conducted in accordance with the legislation in force. The completion of the transaction is subject to conditions precedent, in particular the finalization of the constitution of the Equans business scope and the control procedures of ownership and foreign investment controls in the relevant jurisdictions in which Equans operates. The finalization of the deal is anticipated to be in second semester 2022. We are quite confident that it could happen next summer. Finally, on slide 16, let me conclude by saying that first, Equans is a unique opportunity to boost Bouygues to a global leadership position in multi-technical services. Second, it reinforces the resilience of our business model. With Equans, the group will benefit from a highly strategic positioning and attractive financial profile and a strong cash generation. Third, this deal offers significant value creation over the long term. Last, this proposed transaction is a major strategic move for Bouygues, in line with its financial discipline. I thank you for your attention. Please, operator, open the floor for questions. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder to our participants, please limit yourself to two questions, please. Our first question comes from the line of Sami Kassab of Exane BNP Paribas. When you're ready, please proceed. Oh, thank you guys. Two questions, please. On one of the slides, I noticed you mentioned that the synergies exclude Colas synergies. The first question would be, could there be additional synergies there as well? Then secondly, on the bank loan, I wonder if you could give any detail on kind of how much is fixed, floating, you know, how should we think about interest rate risk over the next, 12 months? Thank you very much. Okay. For the synergy we mentioned, this is the synergy that we will do straight with the new company, with the new combined company, where we put at the same place, Bouygues Energies & Services and Equans. If there is more synergy for revenue with the rest of the group, we didn't calculate anything around this, but it's clear that it's possible to get some. The first thing is when we put them all together, we give you the level of synergy we are expecting. Thanks, sir. As far as the financing is concerned, we have banks which are committed, and the conditions of this loan is in line with what we obtain in the context of its corporate financing. Let's say that it will be a bit lower than what we obtain for our last bond issuance. Fantastic. Thank you very much. Our next question come from the line of Mathieu Robilliard of Barclays PLC. When you're ready, please go ahead. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the questions. The first question was about the synergies and their pace. Can you explain to us what is the difference between the scenario of 120 per year to 200? What are the variables there? And also, what is the pace of progression? Is it very back-ended or is it more front-ended? That would be the first question. The second question was about the starting point. We don't know what is the EBIT of Equans today, or maybe I missed it in the presentation. If you could help us with that starting point, that would be great. Thank you. Sorry, I start with your second question. Yeah. Unfortunately, we are unable to provide any figures coming from Engie, because you are committed not to provide these information. This is the reason why we're unable to do so. What I can say is that when we think about EBIT, we consider all charges at group level. You have to see that probably when Engie provide figures, they have two sets of figures, EBIT before EBIT and below EBIT adjustments. As far as we are concerned, and for the figures we give for the future, we are considering all charges related to these activities. The second question? Okay. About the pace of the synergy, what we could say is, of course, when we consider the global value of Equans, we consider the final value in 2026. It means that obviously we do the synergy before. When you look at what is possible to do at a reasonable way, we consider that it will be done within the first three years of the deal, and it will be obviously progressive. This is at the end of the five years that we will get the final target of EUR 200 million. It's fair to understand it's relatively linear. Maybe, I mean, the first year is always maybe the tougher one with the integration cost, but okay. Back on the- Not especially linear because you just need to put together two company, and it means that the first year, I'm not sure we didn't take any synergy. It will at least in the years, in year two, we can say start from day one. Okay, great. Since you couldn't answer the first one, can I ask another one? Yes. Yes. Yes. Sure. For free. Thank you. You talk about a 5% margin midterm, but I guess an interesting point is on what kind of revenue, 'cause I think we understand that the revenues today are EUR 12.5. Is that your assumption that these revenues are going to grow at, you know, mid-single-digit percent or something different in the next few years? In fact, we consider that the first priority is to do selectivity. Probably during the first years, we will maintain approximately the level of activity of the combined entity, Equans and Bouygues Energies & Services. After a few years, we will start growing at a level which is equivalent to the level of the market, let's say 3% to 4%. Thank you very much. Our next question comes from the line of Akhil Dattani of JPMorgan Securities Plc. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks, very much for taking the question. My first one is just, going back to the financials of Equans, and I guess some of the disclosure that you've provided. You say that the transaction implies a 11.4x EBIT multiple in 2026. I just really wanted to understand exactly how that math works, because that implies about EUR 600 million of EBIT, in 2026. If you're saying that the margin by then is 5% or more, that implies revenues of less than EUR 12 billion, which would mean the revenues would be no better than where they are today. Obviously something in that math I'm misunderstanding. Maybe if you could help us understand that multiple and the math that underpins that. That's the first question. I guess the second question is just regarding the growth trajectory. Obviously, you kind of helped us kindly on the near term, where you said revenues would be stable, but I guess for maybe a couple of years. Thereafter, you've obviously said in your press release that the market's growing 3% to 4%, or the industry, sorry, is growing 3% to 4%. I guess I'm just trying to understand how we should think about your midterm growth outlook, because I guess on the one hand, ordinarily we would assume that you grow with the market. I guess as you're trying to improve the profitability, I presume that means renegotiating contracts. What have you assumed in that for contract renegotiations and what sort of impact that may or may not have around revenues? Thanks a lot. Starting with, Nicolas. Nicolas. Okay. Just to explain what we intend to do with the, you're right, the market, there is a growing market, growing industry. In that sector, we consider that we cannot push simultaneously two different topics. We cannot push the top line and simultaneously push the level of operating margin. Our goal is to increase the operating margin, and we consider that if we want to do this, we need to be selective on the project. It could be because of this, even if the market is growing, we could, we won't be aggressive because we want to have a better operating margin instead of a better top line. You're right, despite the fact that the market is growing, our goal, our first goal is the increase of the level of margin. We will focus on this first. In terms of multiple, you have to consider three elements, considering our future profitability. The profitability coming from the Equans perimeter. Secondly, the profitability coming from Bouygues Energies & Services activity, which will continue to grow. Thirdly, the synergies. When you consider these three elements, you have the multiple we are mentioning. Great. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Nicolas Coté-Colisson of HSBC. When you're ready, please proceed. Hi, everyone. You talked about the year one EPS accretion. Can you tell us a bit more about your tax and cost of debt refinance assumptions underlying this prediction? And maybe to insist on the first question from Sami. How do you hedge the risk of rising interest rates by the time you close the deal? And my second question is around the competition drivers. This market, is it mainly about prices, quality, range of offerings? I'm just wondering what you can expect in terms of the competitors' reaction while you are closing the transaction. If you can tell us a bit more about the churn and the dynamics there, and whether the portfolio of contracts could be at risk from SPIE deciding to go after your clients. Thank you. Just to start with the second question first. When you look at the reality of the market, I mean, this is not theoretical one, it's very real view of the market. This is a market where we have a lack of resources to be able to build a project. In that case, there is really it's irrelevant to try to imagine that it could be a race to reduce the price. It would be very stupid. As we have a lack of resources, all of us, including SPIE, who had the same comment when they were talking about redundancy when we were studying the Equans project, we are quite confident in the fact that there is no real risk about the price war in this domain. Considering the financing now, obviously we will have to refinance our bank loan by bonds. We have time to do so. We'll start quite early, and probably we'll cover part of the financing in the near future. I just want to remind you that we have issued some bonds a few days ago for EUR 800 million, and the coupon was 50 basis points. As we were covered for part of it bought in advance, the economic cost for this financing was 40 basis points. Okay, that's clear. If I may, just to follow up on the first answer. You mentioned that everyone is facing lack of resources and therefore pricing is not really something that you're worried about. How does it go in terms of material shortages? Is that something that is, you know, not really helping the industry right now? Well, in fact, if you consider Equans or the big energy and services activity, they are working on the short-term pricing. When prices increase, they pass through to the client the cost of these equipment or raw materials. Okay. Thank you very much. There is no major impact, I would say. Okay, cool. Thank you. Our next question comes from Joseph Shell of Kepler Cheuvreux. When you're ready, please proceed. Yes, hello. Two questions on my side, please. The first one is on the working capital. Could you tell us more about what is the position there? Are we talking about positive or a negative working capital? And if you could be more precise and give a figure in terms of days of sales, it would be great. And also, how do you expect to make it evolve? What are you targeting in terms of days of sales? And my second one is, if you could come back on two figures that you gave during the presentation, when you were talking about the implementation costs of this merger. I see you mentioned EUR 160 million, and a few minutes after, EUR 150 million of, if I understood well, is on CapEx, on the IT side. Could you talk more about those two costs, please? Thank you. In fact, starting with the second question. First one. Go ahead. No, no. Please, we start always with the second question. Starting with the second question, I would say that Equans was operated within the Engie group. A lot of services and IT services were provided by the Engie group. When we carve out the Equans activity, we need to build the Equans team. In fact, we already started to build a new IT system in order to be able to be standalone. These costs are obviously for accounting purposes, for HR purposes, for operating management, and so on. The most important CapEx they have to do is IT systems and ERP and so on. This is the reason why we consider that we have to develop quite early these IT systems in order to be able, for instance, to manage purchasing. We mentioned previously that we aim to have some synergies in terms of purchasing. They need to have an IT system to be able to catch up to capture these efficiency costs. That's for the CapEx question. The second- Sorry, it is EUR 150 million, right? Yes. Over two years. Yes. Over two years. Not far from that. Including all IT systems, yes. Yes. Over a few years, probably two. But I have to be precise at this stage that we did not have any opportunity to work with Equans and its Jérôme Stubler and his team in order to prepare the plan. We have done that on the basis of what we have obtained in the data room during the competition process. We have to refine these figures working with Equans team. This was your second question, and frankly speaking, I don't remember the first one. Working cap- Working capital. Working capital. Negative or positive? At the moment, the working capital is positive, but there is an important seasonality. It's quite difficult to model working capital in general. What we know perfectly, I was the former CFO of Bouygues Construction, and I can say that when you push people in order to improve the working capital, you obtain significant results. This is the reason why we have such a level of working capital at Bouygues Construction level. Let's say that Bouygues Construction has a different activity. If you consider what we have already done on Bouygues Energies & Services, having very simple processes in order to improve the working capital, we have improved by EUR 200 million over the past 18 months or two years, the working capital of Bouygues Energies & Services on the basis of an activity which represents EUR 5 billion, EUR 4 billion, sorry. If you consider that we use the same method at the Equans level, we will obtain a significant amount. What we are saying at the present time. Understood. Just to get it right, was the figure of one-off costs of EUR 160 million, did you mention that also? If yes, what are we talking about? Excuse me. Could you repeat your question, please? Yes. Before you talking about the IT and those EUR 150 million, Yes. I think that you also gave the figure of EUR 160 million of one-off costs. Sixty. 60. 60, Joseph. Sorry. 60. 60. 60. Okay. Perfect. This is okay one-off cost linked to the integration. Okay. The implemented. Implementation of synergies. Perfect. For instance, if you want to have some synergies in terms of purchasing, you need to have a purchase team. You need to have an IT system in order to develop these synergies. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Jerry Dellis of Jefferies. When you're ready, please go ahead. Yes. Good evening. Thank you for taking my questions. I've got two questions, please. I'd be interested to understand a little bit more about the workforce commitments that you're making over the next five years. You mentioned in the press release that you would be making 15,000 to 20,000 new hires to cover estimated staff turnover in the new entity. On top of that, there's a commitment to create over 10,000 net new jobs over the next five years. The question is sort of the nature of the departures and the people joining. Is it possible to envisage that the cost of the employees departing might be different, higher perhaps, than the blended cost of the new people arriving? I'd be interested to understand that, please. Secondly, to understand a little bit more about the purchasing synergies that you've talked about extensively on the call. Could you talk to us, please, a little bit more about the process for establishing these synergies? Is it a matter of going through contracts individually to work out what is being acquired from where? Or are there any sort of quick wins that you can do before getting into that detail, which presumably is quite difficult, as VINCI was saying on their call the other week? Thank you. Just to understand one thing about the purchase saving we could do, it's very easy to have global contract to buy something. It's much more difficult to be sure that all the branch offices we've got all over the world will use this big contract. It takes time to be sure that all the decentralized organization is utilize the new contract we set up with the main supplier. We consider that to do this, we need tools. This is one of the reason when we say we need an investment, one-off cost of EUR 60 million to be able to set up a new organization for this. When we do this, it's reasonable to say that after. We consider this is why this is not something you get from the first year, because you need time to be sure that you use it. This is why I told a few minutes ago that we consider that this kind of synergy will appear more in the year two than in the year first of the deal. Two pillars, in fact. Price alignment and massification are the two pillars of the synergies in terms of purchasing. As far as the turnover is concerned, let's say that when we speak about the 10,000 to 15,000, we are talking about the natural turnover, retirement and demotions and so on. There is no specific reason when we replace these people, we replace by people which are on average younger but for the same tasks, I would say. The additional resources we will need will be related to the growth of the company, that's all. Thank you very much. Could I just ask a quick follow-up, please? There's a question about pace of margin improvement was asked earlier, but I wasn't entirely clear on the answer. The route from sort of 3% operating margins to 5%, you said that's not necessarily linear. Could you just clarify or what you're anticipating, please? Frankly speaking, at this stage, we don't see any reasons for not to have, you know, a linear curve over the midterm period we were mentioning. But I remind you that we have not yet worked with Equans team in order to have the precise roadmap in terms of results. We know perfectly what we have to do. We know perfectly we will do that during the five years after takeover, but we don't have the precise figure at that stage. It's too early. What we observe in Bouygues Energies & Services to increase the level of operating margin, it's something that we do gradually. If you take, for example, what we did for our Bouygues Energies & Services, initially, when we have a new offer, we ask people to not do any offer below 3% operating margin. After this, after a few months, we ask them to not below 4% operating margin. It takes time to be sure that all the teams are using this guidance. This is why this is something we could say it's quite linear for this part of the increase of the operating margin. The part of the increase that you do through the purchasing department, it's something which will take some time, as I explained you, because you need to be sure that all the teams will use the new contract we set up. All in all, finally, this is something that will be gradually between during the five years before 2026. Thank you very much. Our next question comes from the line of Eric Lemarié of Bernstein. When you're ready, please proceed with your question. Yes. Thanks. I've got. Thanks for taking my questions. First, have you already identified some assets within Equans that could be disposed once the acquisition will be closed? Some non-core assets maybe can be divested. That's my first question. Second question on return. When do you think the return on this operation will exceed the WACC of Bouygues? Third question on the management of the new entity, of the new energy arm of Bouygues. How do you plan to split the role and responsibilities between Jérôme Stubler and Pierre Vanstoflegatte? Because to me, there is two bosses here. Maybe last question, just to understand properly. You confirm that today the EBIT margin of Equans is around 3%, that you target 5% around 2026, and that this 5% will be generated with Equans combined with Bouygues Energies & Services plus some synergies? Sorry, concerning what, your last question. We do not confirm any profitability concerning Equans as- Okay. We are committed not to provide any figure considering the current profitability of Equans. Okay. We do not confirm anything. What we say is that we, when we will be in 2023, we will be at around 3% profitability- Okay. Overall, meaning Equans and Bouygues Energies & Services activities. Yeah. We will have this profitability increasing gradually to reach the level of 5%. Okay. Combining the two entities, huh? Combining- Equans and Bouygues Energy. Combining the two entities. Okay, that's clear. That's what I said, yeah. Okay. The 3% refer to 2023? 2023, yes. Okay. That's clear. Thank you. Which will be the first year? For the combined entity. For the combined entity, because before we will close, we don't know. Summer. Probably during the summer, 2022. We won't have any impact on the 2022 year. The real life will start in 2023 for the combined entity. Yeah, it makes sense. This 5%, is it fair to assume it can be reached by about 2026, or? Frankly speaking, we are not committing there to be in 2026 or 2027. Hopefully, we will start, it will be with midterm. Okay. We have to build something. We do not know precisely where we are, where we will be there. Okay, that's clear. Thanks for this. About your question about the management team and the role of Jérôme Stubler in the new organization. When we consider the acquisition of Equans, we consider two things. First, this is a domain where Equans is a win because this is a very growing market and a resilient market. The second is the management team that we saw in the company. We consider that Jérôme Stubler, when you look at his past, is someone who is really able to work in a group like us, as he was spending 30 years in the VINCI Group. We are quite confident the fact that we could work together and we have quite good feeling with him. We consider that he will give to the new entity first his experience of a EUR 12 billion company because he was in charge of such a business before. He has very interesting experience in international market as he was running, for example, Freyssinet, which was really based on a bunch of very decentralized and very international business. At the same time, we would like to use the experience of Pierre Vanstoflegatte. Pierre Vanstoflegatte has a very big interest because he was part of the SPIE organization a few years ago. He has the real experience in the turnaround. What he started two years ago in Bouygues Energies & Services gave some results right now, and we are quite confident in the fact that we will reach quite fast this 5% target that we set up initially. We consider that the combination of Jérôme Stubler as the head of the new entity and Pierre Vanstoflegatte as the manager working with Jérôme is a strong team to be able to deliver the goal we set up for the level of operating margin. This is something that we think gives us some confidence in the fact that we will be able to deliver the result at the end of the day. If you consider now, the potential divestment is too early to speak about that. We have no specific idea of any divestment at that stage. Secondly, as far as how we assess the investment, obviously we don't assess this investment in terms of IRR. We are not a financial firm. We are not a bank. So we are not calculating on five years what will be the IRR of that business. We are considering this investment in terms of ROCE and at the group level we will stay at ROCE which is far higher than our WACC. So there is no specific issue in that respect. Thank you. Finally, when you consider what we just did, as I told you for the conclusion, we move the group in a new sector which is much more resilient than the one we've got before. We change the profile of the company. It give us less exposure to the cyclical construction business. This is a very asset-like business with a strong cash generation. This is the main reason if we did this. Understood. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Nicolas Mora of Morgan Stanley. When you're ready, please proceed. Nicolas, if you are there, please unmute your line on your device. As we have no response, we'll move on to our next caller. We have Nicolas Cote-Colisson of HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Me again. It's gonna be short. Can you tell us a bit more about your debt rating and how your discussions with S&P have structured your final offer? Maybe linked to that, you just mentioned, Olivier, the recurring nature of the business. What does it say or what kind of message you want to pass regarding your dividend policy looking forward? Thanks. Considering our rating first. Our rating is A- at Standard and Poor's. We didn't have it yet any element from Standard and Poor's or Moody's. We are discussing, but we are not anxious about our rating. We don't know yet, but there is no rating issue in that respect. Okay. That they didn't say they will maintain that rating, but it's too early, let's say. For the dividend policy, it's too early to answer your question, because Yeah. the cash for shareholders, if you know that this is one of your main priority, and once business is cash generating, we will be able to give you something in the future, but definitely too early to answer this right now. I had to try. Thank you. Yes. Good. Good luck. I remind you that you have seen in the past what have been our dividend policy, which is, in the past we always managed in order to be able to have a dividend at least equal to the level of the previous year. It's too early to speak about that. You have a 20-year track record in order to imagine what could happen. At least you know the score. Yes, exactly. I'll take that. Thank you. At this time, we'll try once more for Nicolas Mora of Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Yes. Good evening, guys. Sorry for before. I mean, first question would be why do you set up targets for 2026? That sounds a bit odd to us. I mean, nobody's in the industry has ever restructured a business like this in four years. It's taken 10 years for some of your peers to restructure and get to 5%. We're a little bit surprised you're that aggressive. So that's number one. Number two, just on the synergies, we're talking about procurement. So procurement is around 30% of revenues in this business. We are a little bit surprised that you can extract, you know, 2.5% to 4% savings on procurement on this business, especially since it's a reverse takeover. So that's number two. Number three, can you just tell us a little bit geographically, I mean, where you see the key strengths of the combined business? I mean, we know there are some weak links, especially in the U.K. and Belgium. Where do you think you need to put extra pressure to get the business back on track? Thank you. First to answer your first question, we didn't say that we will be at 5% in 2026 and we are not starting from zero. Secondly, we have already started at Bouygues Energies & Services level to restructure and to reorganize the activity in order to improve the profitability since a few years. We are not starting from 2021, but from the past year. We have said that it would be gradual. I think that the past experience you were mentioning proves that precisely it, the improvement comes gradually. If you consider our peers, you see, you can see that. No reason not to be able to do so. That's for your first, your second question. The third one was related to. The geographic strength and weakness. Weakness. We consider that, for example, when you say that there is geographic weakness about Equans, you were mentioning U.K. Is this what you mean? Yeah. You've got the U.K. local authorities regeneration business. You got the Belgian EPC business, which within the industry we know are quite low margin. Some of your peers are quite skeptical. As a whole, you can get to 5% without massively downsizing these businesses. We consider when you look at the geography, do you know the figures of Bouygues Energies & Services per country? No, no, we don't disclose them. Oh, we don't disclose them. Okay. For example. No, but you fight several accounts here and there. I mean, you've done acquisitions, the other. We've got a relatively fair idea, big picture. Just to understand how as a whole Just for example, when you look at, for example, to give you an example of what you were mentioning about U.K., for example. U.K. is definitely a weakness in Equans. It's not a weakness in Bouygues Energies & Services because it's not the same kind of business. So there is no real reason if we're able to do it with Bouygues Energies & Services and not able to do it with Equans. There is few activity, for example, in Equans who are definitely really, not really good in the U.K., especially when you look at the construction business. Definitely when you look at this, you could discuss with the management team of Equans and to consider with it, do we need to dispose it or not? When you look at our figures in the U.K. for Bouygues Energies & Services, you realize that we could create value in this. Maybe, you know, you don't know them. For the weakness, there is for me one country where we need to improve really a lot. This is the Swiss position, which is the same one in the Equans and Bouygues Energies & Services, and this is a subject we're working on. For the rest of the business, when you consider its position, for example, in Belgium or in the Netherlands, when you look at the density of the business they've got in this country, because this is number one position in both of them, we consider that there is an increase possible on this business. We are quite confident on it when you look at the action plan proposed by Equans in the management presentation. Hello. Okay. We have a lot of experience, and if you consider precisely our peers and competitors on the increase of profitability. Some funds go far quicker than that in order to have the IRR they are expecting in five years. The, you know, The first. If I try to sum up. What I told you about the improvement on the level of margins, what I would like to tell you is what we saw of what we did during the last two years in Digital Engineering & Services. We really consider that finally there is a lot of things, one, very complex, but where you need to maintain a high level of constraint, and you need to engage really a lot of manager to be able to succeed because this is really centralized business. When I mentioned that, for example, for the achieving strategy is one thing to define it, and this is another thing to use it. We consider it takes time to engage all the 2,000 managers we need to turn around the way we make the offer and to increase the level of operating margin we sell to the customer. Even if it takes time to do it, at the end of the day, there are very simple rules that you could use that, for example, SFR, where it helps you to warrant that you could reach that level of operating margin. We observe we were able to do it with our own organization, which is not a EUR 12 billion organization, it's only a EUR 4 billion organization. I don't really see any problem to expand what we do for EUR 4 billion to the twelve other billion organization. Definitely, this is the same range of problems. There is no different problem or something which is really much bigger. This is why we consider that stability is possible. When I told you that we want to combine in the management of the new team of the new entity a team made of the international experience of Jérôme and the services experience of Pierre Vanstoflegatte. This is what I mean is to combine those two skills to be able to to set up this kind of rule to enhance and to have this action plan to enhance the level of operating margin at the worldwide level. At the end of the day, I'm afraid we are quite confident. You are not, but I am. No, we are. This is No, don't get me wrong. It's Right. What we understand is these are people's business. It takes a very long time- Yeah. Definitely you're right. This is a services business. This is made on people. Without the commitment of the people, you cannot succeed anything. You're right. Definitely, you're right. It's not an industry with a factory. It's an industry where the people make the job every day. The only way to make it with the right level of profitability is a strong commitment to the people. You're right. Definitely, this is based on this. This is what we think. If I may, just the last one on because you're buying a carve-out which doesn't have actually a real cost base, do you think from day one at Equans, you can already get overheads in line with best-in-class, and you've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to start from scratch there? Do you think the specificity of Equans gives you a head start there, or this is gonna take a while, and you need revenue growth? Because this has been the main driver of cost savings at many of your peers, compressing overheads to around 7% to 8% and turn margins to 5%. You are right. It could be an opportunity because at the present time, Jérôme Stubler and his team is organizing the company. Obviously, they will start to optimize. They want to hire people and then reorganize in order to be at the most efficient level. They will start with what is needed, knowing the current organization of the subsidiaries, which constitutes the Equans perimeter. I consider it will be an opportunity for Equans. You're right. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. We have our next question from Luiz Vaz of Société Générale. When you're ready, please go ahead. Hi, good afternoon. I just had a quick question on the cash generation for the business. We know from data from Engie on Equans that Equans has around the CapEx to sales of around 1.5%, and the depreciation amortization to sales is slightly higher at around 2.5%. I was just wondering if you have any view on how these margins may develop by 2026, that would impact your cash generation on the multiples you've guided? Thank you. No, at that stage, we don't have such figures. We know that on average, in this business, at least 40% of the net results is converted into cash. We don't have a certain level of growth. We don't have the figure you were mentioning. At this stage, it's too early. Which type of cash generation are you expecting by 2026 for this, around EUR 600 million a bit you've guided for, roughly? Around 40%, you said? No, it's an average for the sector, the whole sector. It's not our forecast at that stage. Okay. Understood. Thank you. All right. Our final question is from Matthieu Boulay of CIC. When you're ready, please go ahead. Hi. Yes, my question was also on the impact of this acquisition on your credit rating with S&P and Moody's, but it's been answered already. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank Okay. Thank you. Okay. All right. We have one last question that's come through from Jerry Dellis of Jefferies. Please go ahead. Yes, thank you for taking the follow-up. Just in relation to the midterm 5% margin target, you said not 2026, but you also said that you're quite confident. What parameters can you put around the sort of year that you're targeting the 5% for, please? Thank you. Well, we won't price it because we have to work with Jérôme Stubler and his team in order to refine our forecast. I remember that we were not allowed to work with Mr. Stubler and his team in order to do so. We'll do so in the near future, but it's far too early. Thank you. You know. All right. At this time, we have no further questions. I'll return the presentation to your speakers for concluding remarks. Okay. Thank you for joining us today. I hope we answered your question, and it's more clear for you now. I remind you that we will announce our nine months 2021 sales and earnings next week, Tuesday, 16th November. In the meanwhile, if you have any question, you should contact our Investor Relations team under Karine Adams. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the Bouygues conference on Equans. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.