Good afternoon, and welcome here in OPmobility. Welcome also for those not being here, but being connected. I hope that the people who had the opportunity to visit the showroom before did see that many things changed during the last months, basically, that is the reason why we wanted with Marc Perraudin, with Kathleen, to show you how we are moving forward with hydrogen, which is becoming more and more important. We are convinced about that, we will show you that later on, that it is a technology which is going to play a very important role in the mobility of tomorrow. Marc Perraudin is here with me. He's the CEO of New Energies, he will present the big part of the presentation. I will make the introduction. Kathleen will join me at the end for the Q&A session. We have scheduled a 45 minutes presentation, then hoping that you will have a lot of reaction, question on hydrogen. Before talking about hydrogen, just a wrap up about what did happen the last months regarding PO, because 2022 was also a very important year for Plastic Omnium. That is the new PO in term of product offering. We have now 40,000 employees, which is the result of the growth of PO in the last years, but also the acquisition we had last year. We have five divisions, that is the way we are managing the business. That means five P&Ls, five strategy, and for sure a lot of synergies between the division. First of all, the historical division, which is IES, bumper, tailgate, number one in the world. We have the lighting division, which is a new acquisition, the new created division end of last year, after the acquisition of AMLS, ams OSRAM, and Varroc. EUR 1.2 billion of sales, being one of the major player in lighting, and even more important, being one of the top in lighting for BEV, for electric cars. We have the modules, where we are also number one in the world, 100% PO now, after the fact that we did purchase the shares of HELLA. This part is the exterior part. That means we are able to provide to our customers different solutions, also to integrate those solutions. That is the unique offer of PO. That means to integrate, for example, the lighting into the bumper and so on and so on. We have on the right side, Clean Energy Systems. That is the fuel system storage and the depollution system, which is bringing a lot of value to the company. We are convinced that in the next 20 years, there will be still a lot of combustion engine in the world. The market is going to consolidate around the biggest one. We are the biggest one. Therefore, we are convinced to be able to stabilize the business at a very high level of turnover and margin as well in the coming years. New Energies, that is the division regarding hydrogen, which is new for sure since one year and four, five months now, with the ambition to be number one in the world. That is already what we do see with the order intake we will show you later on. New as well in PO, OP'nSoft. That is the software touch of PO. Our products are becoming more and more connected with the rest of the car. We had always some software competencies within the company in each division. We have decided to organize it much better than in the past. That means to have one organization for software serving the division, serving our customers, because the need from our customers is increasing in term of software. We are talking about 60- 70 people right now, and it will increase in the coming years. That is the new PO after this 22. Very important year. Now moving to hydrogen. We believe in hydrogen because first of all, hydrogen is for sure carbon neutral. It's like a battery vehicle. Hydrogen is basically also electricity. It's always important to talk about that. It's just the way to store the electricity is different, the energy. It is stored in hydrogen. It is transformed in electricity, and then the rest is pretty similar. The advantage of hydrogen is for sure you can have the same range like with a combustion engine. You have the same charging time. Refueling time is the same like a combustion engine as well. It's much more lightweight solution that battery, for example. Competitive cost is not the fact today, but it will be in 2030, we are sure, competitive compared to the combustion engine. Therefore, a lot of potential application. That is the reason why we believe that hydrogen will play a very important role in the coming years. It's not only what we do believe. Marc will talk about what many customers, OEMs are doing in term of hydrogen. That is also the investment in hydrogen in all kind of in kind of topic. It is infrastructure. It is production of green hydrogen, for example. Industry and the investment in hydrogen are increasing very fast. You see the number of EUR 320 billion. It was six months ago, EUR 240 billion. That means it is increasing a lot. A lot of new programs, a lot of new subsidies, grants from diverse governments to invest in hydrogen, and for sure that will create a momentum for the infrastructure and for the mobility, for the market we are in. For us, hydrogen is not only a way to have some growth in the future and to benefit from the decarbonization of the mobility. It is also a way for us to be present in different part of the mobility. You know that PO was traditionally focusing on passenger cars. We are convinced that the mobility of tomorrow will be much more diverse and multiple, we want to be part of the mobility in the world and not only the passenger cars, therefore, hydrogen is also the opportunity to be present in buses, in trucks, in trains, mainly, the commercial and heavy mobility, and Marc will show you some example. Also to diversify our portfolio and to reduce the risk for the company. That will be a big part of the hydrogen order intake in the coming years will be coming from this kind of mobility. That was about the introduction, PO, hydrogen, why we believe in it, and now I hand over to Marc, and Marc will explain you a lot about what we are doing to be number one in hydrogen. T hank you very much. Good afternoon. Very happy to be with you again, to talk about our hydrogen adventure. I think Laurent has set the tone in terms of business, thank you, Laurent, development, in terms of market access and new segments. I will focus this afternoon on what has changed also since we discussed. The last big meeting between us was in October of last year. There was a change, and there was a shift I would like to highlight, which is important. It's one of the starting point of this meeting this afternoon. Just reminding that our global vision on the market evolution for hydrogen mobility has not evolved much. By the way, we are not reviewing it every 15 days because we think it would be a bit arrogant to think that we'll predict what will be the hydrogen market in 2030. We are still maintaining our vision around the midpoint between the most optimistic and the most pessimistic views that exist, from people saying that hydrogen mobility will not happen at all and people believing that it will happen faster. Globally, 2% of the market with in number of units, number of units on the left, not value. The split, which is 1/3 for passenger cars, 2/3 for commercial vehicles in 2030. If I were to do that in this type of breakdown for the coming five years, it would be even completely different with very few numbers for passenger cars and automotive market, and of course, 90%+ for commercial mobility. Hydrogen will be about commercial mobility in the next five years, definitely for topics related to infrastructure development. On the right, the picture is new. It's not what we showed, what I showed a couple of years back when we believed at the time that probably 2/3 of the market would develop in Asia. You all know that the pioneers of hydrogen mobility are Toyota in Japan, Hyundai in Korea, so Eastern Asia. China has always put a lot of momentum on hydrogen development, and our focus was to say 60%-65% in Asia in 2030, probably 25%-30% of the business in Europe, and a very marginal and minor share for America. Change of administration in the U.S., President Biden administration has now pushed the Inflation Reduction Act, which is impacting a lot of industrial fields and activities, of course, it is touching deeply the hydrogen and positively hydrogen world because there are a lot of subsidies available for the production of green hydrogen. Of course, it triggered immediately, American style, with a lot of dynamism here also, a lot of momentum, and a lot of new projects. Basically, it is giving us this new perspective, 40/30/30. Let's remember perhaps 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, which is fantastic by the way, because it will bring better balance in terms of business for us, in terms of capacity investment, and mitigate also the risk of ramp up of the volumes of hydrogen mobility. I was talking about units. I could talk about value. One-third of the market down the road in automotive does not mean 1/3 of the value of our EUR 3 billion down the road. It means probably a bit less because, again, it's a rule of thumb type of table that we have established. If I come back to the usual values we are displaying, which are reasonable for passenger cars down the road, you need probably 6- 7 kg of hydrogen to run a car with a decent range, which would be worth around EUR 2,000, $2,000. The fuel cell itself and the system should cost down the road something around EUR 5,000 or $5,000 again. I'm in the range of EUR 6,000, EUR 7,000, EUR 8,000 for the complete electric hydrogen powertrain to be competitive. This is one of the challenge, of course, of the scale-up of our activities. If you go to light commercial vehicles, a bit heavier, a bit more expensive because expectations from customers in terms of durability of the system, expectation also in range and a bit more storage. The EUR 6,000-EUR 7,000 becomes EUR 10,000. If you go again above, and I will stop there, and you go to heavy-duty truck, order of magnitude again, the big truck makers today, they want 60 kg - 80 kg of hydrogen to run a truck for a distance 600 miles, 1,000 km. Of course, they require 300 kW of power under the hood. It's not under the hood anymore most of the time, but whatever. Globally, ballpark figures are in the range of 60, 80 kilo euros or kilo dollars. Multiply by 10 or by 15 compared to a passenger car. If I say that in 2030, 1/3 of the market could be in units, passenger cars, it's way less in value. again, I don't know what it will be in 2040, and again, I don't want to play a crystal ball game, etc, to guess. I think it will accelerate and probably grow also in the passenger car market, not for all segments, but for the heavy SUV, luxury type, etc, with a lot of expectations in terms of range. Globally, in the next years anyway, most of the business will be done with commercial activities and public transportation. Laurent talked about the project. There are a lot of subsidies on the market. Germany, France, we are in Europe today, are bringing a lot of fresh money into the development of all the infrastructure activity, green hydrogen production. It's not new. It's coming in the U.S. I said it. We are probably undermining the figure in China by far. It's way more difficult for us from Europe also to collect all the subsidies and supports which are put on the table by the provinces in China supporting the growth of hydrogen. Big promotion is done, and a lot of government money is brought to the hydrogen development. On the right-hand side, two examples only, but there are many which are important of OEMs joining forces with energy company to bring a global offer to the commercial market. For example, I think Daimler Truck and BP, it's in U.K. to develop a network of something like 25 hydrogen refilling station and to really develop and allow the market to grow. Stellantis and MG, I think have brought recently an announcement telling that they will offer together a total service, a global service. Stellantis will bring the vehicle, the light utility vehicle, and MG would bring the refilling station and the green hydrogen. All together, they are making things possible. One footnote on this slide, which is quite important and probably a bit too tiny because it's important. Europe came to an agreement a couple of weeks ago to establish the fact that by the end of 2030, there should be one hydrogen refilling station every 200 km on what they call, I think, the T-nodes in Europe, so the big highways. I don't know if some of you were with us in the last meeting, but we were taking a little bit this example of to allow hydrogen to happen, it's not like electricity recharging station. It's less dense because the refilling time is, of course, way shorter. With this regulation coming into play, that means that by the end of 2030, all the highways in Europe, in the 27 members of the Union, will be equipped with refilling stations, which would also trigger the capacity to ramp up passenger car mobility. About the refilling station, these are the figures, and they are quite shy today, to be clear. Was, sorry, 550 in 2020. It has roughly doubled in three years, which is not yet the rate we expect for the coming years because you see that the predictions when you cover all the projects ongoing is to be above 7,000, which would be a great coverage at that time. If you compare that to the ramp-up curve of the charging stations available for the battery electric vehicle. We found a document showing the evolution between 2015 and 2021. It showed that at the time, back in 2015 before, it was also doubling year-over-year for two years. Then, of course, there was a strong and a steep ramp-up in terms of equipment. I think when you superimpose the two curves of refilling station hydrogen and battery charging points, not with the same number of units, but you have roughly the same S- profile, which is starting to happen, and of course, which is key for the growth of our business. Nice transition with the business insights. This is the offer. We have added, compared to the previous sessions, we have added the service part, which is important. We are talking about commercial mobility. In commercial mobility, the customers are expecting the extra mile, not only a zero-kilometer component like we used to deliver, but also a warranty, a service, a maintenance. This is also a new segment of growth. Laurent was talking about the fact that PO through hydrogen, but through other activities, is entering into commercial mobility segments and growing the business with new type of vehicles. We are also accelerating in this field, which is to provide after-sale service, warranty, maintenance services for the fuel cell systems, but also for the maintenance activity and the changeover of some components in commercial mobility. The ambition here still maintained. We have even amended slightly the one on the left. We said 20%-25%. Now we say above 25% market share in high-pressure systems. The market is not established today, so it will be very difficult because some of you will probably ask us what is our market share. I don't know, because the market is growing like crazy and the order book is evolving every day. The impression we have is that we are way above this value today in terms of acquisition of business. I will get back to that. Probably above 50% even. This is not something that we think we could maintain over time, of course. There will be competition in all regions, but today we are very optimistic on the fact that we could exceed 25% in hydrogen storage. We are maintaining our targets for the fuel cell stacks and for the systems that you have seen on the floor outside, reasonably also because the market is completely different. Because some OEMs have decided to integrate, the fuel cell system, the fuel cell stack, depends. Some will buy components from us, some will buy stack, some are doing their systems. It is the case for Toyota, for Hyundai. It is the case in the truck business with cellcentric, the JV between Daimler and Volvo Trucks. They are developing their own system. Of course, a portion of the market is not accessible, and the configuration is a bit different. We maintain our market shares, and we are very positive with the recent evolutions of the order book of EKPO that we'll reach this value. Very happy about this one. A lot of info on this one. I'm always talking about the S-curve. You know, we are in a growing business. When you are on the S-curve and you sell to your shareholder or to your boss that you are on an S-curve market, of course, they are expecting the S really to start because when you stay at the bottom, you make promises. It's starting now. We put on the graph everything we have. Some of the customer names we are not allowed to display today. As we said, with some of you before the presentation, we have acquired two months ago a very large order with an American OEM that I can't name for confidentiality reason, which is in excess of EUR 2 billion, in fact close to $2.5 billion in value of order intake for both PO and EKPO for storage and for fuel cell components. It will pave the way for a new plant in the U.S.. That's bringing us back to the comment I did before on the balance of the market, 1/3 for every continent, and again, allow us to develop one plant in France for the European market, one plant in the U.S. for this customer, and one plant in China to acquire and target the local business. Two years ago, was very proud to announce to the market, the first order, the first big order, that we got, which was the Hyundai Nexo at the time. It was a couple of dozens of million EUR, the value, whatever it was, EUR 40 million, in fact. Euros were over about EUR 40 million for a new business was something amazing. The year after, we announced that we got the Stellantis and Renault HYVIA business for light commercial. It was in the range of hundreds of millions EUR, so it was a zero more, EUR 40 million to more than EUR 500 million in total, Stellantis and HYVIA together. This year we got at the beginning, the quarter one, an order which is $2.5 billion. Again, changing and of course promoting this S-curve in the order book, which is helping us today to visualize really the business plan that we had predicted. Quick transition also to comment on the right. What I said on passenger cars balance in value this time versus commercial is visible here. In my order book today, I have 1%, EUR 40 million Hyundai of passenger cars, and all the rest is in commercial mobility. Commercial mobility is the name of the game for the next five years, and all the investments that we are implementing and developing are dedicated to commercial mobility. Another element which is not minor either, and you can find that back on the bottom left, is the fact that we started also with a couple of pioneers, and we are very proud to be partners with, for example, our friends of Safra, a bus maker, French bus maker, a pioneer in hydrogen mobility. A lot now for order book is coming from Lucid, from traditional OEMs. The names that you have at the bottom, some of them are missing, again, for confidentiality reasons, which is also making us believe that hydrogen is really happening in heavy mobility, in mid-duty mobility on all continents. This is also, I think, substantiating a lot the objectives that we have set up for the activity down the road. Okay, you guys know better. I don't want to comment on that. Laurent was talking about the momentum in projects globally across the planet, in hydrogen projects for mobility, for industry, for building applications, for green hydrogen and renewable implementation. There are also a lot of communication talking about the major OEMs. You see all the big names behind my back here on the presentation, investing in hydrogen and pushing to develop the technology. There is no doubt for us that hydrogen is getting there. It's visible in our order book. It's visible with the big names associated to hydrogen now and who have declared they want to enter in this new field of mobility. Let's talk about us now. What are the assets of the division? This is the portfolio. You were outside. You've got great explanations, I'm sure, about all the project offers, I won't come back in details about that. Vessels, hydrogen, high pressure storage, and system associated with all the design, unique design capabilities and testing capabilities. We have established in Genk, Belgium, a new facility which started 18 months ago, which I think is probably the biggest in Europe, technical center for development, prototyping and testing of hydrogen vessels and storage system. Brand new site with a lot of capabilities. Quite impressive. I hope one day we'll be able to bring some of you there to visit it. Of course, we are working a lot to accommodate all the regions. Here, this slide is a bit difficult to read, so don't try and read it. It's just to explain to you that the certification, the security and the norms worldwide, the regulations are getting there. In some countries, you have specific regulation. There is a global one which is coming from the United Nations, which is called GTR 13. It's a working group from the UN. Globally, most of the regulations on the continent, Europe, China, Korea, are deriving from this referential. It's getting there, it's converging a lot, and there are now a lot of uniformity brought to the technical field of certification. Because of certification, we do a lot in our tech center, in our development. Of course, this is mandatory. I don't have to remind you that hydrogen storage systems are safety products like the fuel tanks we develop. Of course a lot of testing and a lot of different testing during the development, but also during the production. Just to go fast and to give you a couple of figures, but I would be happy also to answer your questions, if any, on this. Each and every hydrogen vessel is tested with a safety factor of 2.25. This is the baseline of the certification R1s we follow in Europe, for example. If you are selling a product which is compliant for 700 bars refilling, you need to prove to the certification body that it is able to burst not below 1,575 bars, 2.25 the working pressure. That's what you need to do to certify the product before putting it in production. When you are producing, you are not done with the certification body because each vessel which is produced and delivered has to go through a nondestructive proof test, obviously not at 225 and plus, otherwise it would explode and we would have nothing to sell, but it's still a 1.5 burst factor. Each vessel which is put on the road, put on a vehicle, is compliant with the certification and the resistance and the big coefficients of 225, and each product sold has gone through a hydraulic test. It's a test with water, not with hydrogen, with a pressure of 1,050 bars, 1,050 bars when it's a 700 bar product. Important also, we are also validating, certifying the fully assembled system for leaks, for high pressure with the same type of safety factor. I think it's important, of course, sorry, I wanted to get back, to understand that all these certification bodies have produced referential, which are very safe today, forcing us to test and to cycle the vessels between - 40 and + 85 degrees, forcing us to put sodium hydroxide, the lye, sulfuric acid, methanol, AdBlue on the vessels, chemical degradation and attack, to drop the vessels from five meters high, etc, to put them in a bonfire to test the fire resistance. All of this is part of the certifications in the system. Hydrogen is a fuel. It contains energy. I'm sorry, but I think when you want to have energy, it's like in the gasoline, it's like in natural gas. Of course, you have energy, and you need to contain that. This is what PO does for living with the fuel system, and this is what is also protected by worldwide regulations and referential. I can tell you that this is taken very seriously, learning from the past experience of different LPG or whatever application. You have safety valves on each vessels, on each systems. You have trigger temperature and pressure release device, which are activated when there is a fire on the car. You have a mechanical resistance, which is intrinsic to the product. All of this, of course, is the object of what you could see in Genk if one day we organize an event and of what we do. There is another book, so there is a capacity needed. These are the capacity in the different two fields, capacity in high pressure vessels and system in all the continents. The big buildup is between now and 2025- 2026. The first big SOP is in 2024 next year, for Stellantis and for HYVIA at the end of the year. The big, big order I was talking about at the beginning, for an American OEM is SOP in 2026. Then we have, of course, a large scale-up, which is happening over time with capacities which are being built. This is the illustration of what we are building. New dot on the map, the mega plant in the U.S. Last time we told you that we were installing in Adrian, Michigan, in an existing Plastic Omnium fuel system plant, what we call a pilot line, which is a minor or a small capacity cap, that we developed for Ford in that case, and which will be able to deliver 5,000-10,000 vessels per year. It's small quantities. Of course, because of the acquisition of this new deal, we are building also a mega plant somewhere in the Midwest, most likely, not having selected yet the future location. Of course, winning strongly on our side to take also advantage at pure level of the IRA federal subsidies and systems, coming from the Department of Energy, going to local, playing a little bit competition between the different states and government. Laurent Favre, Félicie Burelle were recently with Governor Whitmer, the governor of Michigan. Of course, we are visiting all the states and discussing with them what they can provide in terms of support, training costs, development costs, local facilities, subsidies, etc. This is the U.S., France you know. It is the project which is this time heavily subsidized by the French government. This was the purpose of the visit of Prime Minister Élisabeth Borne a couple of months ago, EUR 74 million in total subsidy to develop this site and facility. Definitely in the Korea, China, so in Eastern Asia, in Wonju, Korea, we are putting together. There was also recently a communication and the groundbreaking of this new site. We are developing a plan for Hyundai, very close to Hyundai facility, in fact. We are at the same time implementing a new footprint in the Shanghai province in Nantong. I will come back to that in a couple of slides because we have also launched this year a new joint venture with a fantastic partner, which will support the development of the Chinese business for hydrogen. Of course, there is EKPO present and coming with us also in the Shanghai province in Suzhou, developing around the ElringKlinger site a facility to localize the production of bipolar plates and fuel cell stacks. Important to access the Chinese market. In short, big order intake, more than double since the last time, which is important. Mostly and most balanced and better balanced between the continents. Building a footprint which is adapted to the configuration of the order book, but also putting parallel capacities on the 3 continents, Europe, Americas, and Eastern Asia. Globally today, a good visibility on the order book substantiating again the ambition of the division. Investment is key. We have spent a lot. We are spending a lot. We announced a couple of years back an ambition to invest EUR 100 million per year on average. I'm happy to tell you, Laurent, that I'm meeting my target. Definitely, this is the money we need. Of course, it's capital intensive. There is a lot of development and orders, but when you have orders, you have also responsibilities to build the capacity. What is important for us is to be reasonable. This is PO, one foot on the accelerator, but also one foot on the brake. Capabilities to build a standard design for our plants, which will be possible to stagger across the years. We will build the first tranche of investment. We will see the evolution and the ramp-up of the volumes and then add a second tranche. Selective spots, pieces of land, building, which are expandable, capabilities which are expandable. This is also, I think, a differentiating factor for the next five years to be able to follow the capacity, the actual capacity and speed of the market. Today, we know for a fact that we have theoretical volumes, which are great, looking great, we don't know at which speed the hydrogen, the green hydrogen availability will evolve and at which speed the infrastructure will evolve. We are protecting the assets and the exposure in terms of cash and CapEx as much as possible. Of course, and this is probably something that Kathleen and Laurent will comment a little bit more, we are using all the tools and the leverages we have to finance this growth and activity. Of course, I told you before, I think I feel a little bit like a teenager living at home with my parents. I go to the fridge and I take some food for myself. The strong cash generation of the historical activities of PO are feeding me and the growth of New Energies. That's number one. We are also fighting to gain access to large subsidies. You see the amount that we have written here, which is really what we have in the radar so far. Of course, it's a large contribution to the CapEx. We are also getting access to JV partners. I will take this example in a minute for China, where we have established a 50/50 joint venture that we consolidate from an IFRS point of view, where of course, 50% of the cash will come from the partner. It will not be reflected in the free cash flow because we will consolidate. I can tell you that in real money and in depth, of course, it will impact positively the spend. All in all, pricing is very important. I think we said that commercial mobility, the content per car is amazing. Even if I go to the lower segment in terms of value, EUR 2,000, I said for the storage system of a passenger cars, it's 20 times, 15 times the value of a gasoline fuel system, which is costing between $100 and $150 per car. Definitely increasing the content, increasing the access to new segments, not only passenger cars, but commercial mobility. Competitiveness will be the name of the game. In commercial mobility, we learn that it's not about the initial price of the components, it's about the total cost of ownership. Definitely access to a global solution, which is affordable in terms of initial cost and price, obviously. This is one of the fights of the hydrogen world, and to divide by 5, 6, again, the fuel cell stacks price. Today, it's way too expensive. It has to go down. It's the same for the carbon fiber, it is the same for the storage solution. Of course, also to optimize the consumption of hydrogen, the performance, intrinsic performance of our solutions for them to be affordable compared to competition, compared to battery electric, and even compared down the road, of course, to ICE solution for heavy mobility. Industrial capacities, I have commented widely on the three continents. Security and certification, this is what we do for a living. This is pure D&A in terms of product development, energy storage. Sustainability, I will come back to that also in a minute to detail to you our roadmap and our focus, especially in zero carbon emission manufacturing. I was talking about partners, two JVs, the one you know already, which was established technically March 1st, 2021, signed in 2020, at the end of 2020, covering, of course, the fuel cell stack development. Some of you have visited our fantastic plant in Dettingen an der Erms in Germany. Production capacity of roughly 10,000 units per year today, which I think is still the biggest capacity existing in Europe, fully automated and robotized. The new one, the newly born, really, created in the first days of 2023 officially, but which has just been incorporated, in fact, three weeks ago on April 28th. We received the business license from the Chinese government. JV exists. It's gonna be called PO-Rein. Rein is a subsidiary of a large energy company called Shenergy. Shenergy is the number one of gas and electricity power in the region, in the province of Shanghai. It's a large corporation. They are doing electricity, natural gas. They are doing a lot of investment in renewable energy, deploying wind turbine fields, solar panel fields, and de-developing also hydrogen ecosystem, production of hydrogen through electrolysis, and being embedded in most of the components and activities around hydrogen through participation. It's the case of Rein. Very interesting partnership because obviously, Rein has already an interesting market share and positioning in China because they have an historical activity on the Chinese market on hydrogen storage, transportation, not only for mobility, it's a global vision, but for example, they are the worldwide specialist of tube trailer shipments and H2 transportation. They have a large capability to address the commercial market with H2 storage cylinders. What we call the Type 3, remember the steel version. Plastic Omnium is bringing the Type 4 technology, which is new in China, newly accessible. It has been open to the market in September last year. Of course, this combination of Rein being local, knowing the local market with the push of a large energy corporation. Shenergy is a SOE, it's a state-owned enterprise. Belonging to the SASAC Shanghai, so belonging to the government, helping us to be introduced in the best network in terms of commercial and market access. This is created now. All the assets and all the projects that we have in China will be transferred to the JV. This JV activity is restricted to People's Republic of China first. There is a territorial limitation. Restricted also to the commercial market, commercial vehicles market. Passenger cars are not included. Of course, we will boost this and we will take advantage of this great partnership to accelerate our penetration of the Chinese market. Brings me to people, which is one of the asset, but one also of the differentiating element on the market, hiring a lot of people. End of 21, it was 300 people roughly at New Energies in total, including EKPO. Yesterday it was 600. I think we'll end the year above 750, growing very fast, obviously. Integrating a lot of new skills, some coming from the automotive, some coming from other fields, energy, hydrogen, gas systems, software, electronics for the fuel cell system. People who don't know exactly how the automotive business and how the mobility business is working. A lot of effort. To be very honest, we have a good attractiveness today because we are in hydrogen, in zero emission mobility, and I think in a field you have seen outside the technological content, which is fantastic for a young engineer. Of course, bringing that together, incorporating that into the Plastic Omnium culture is an important challenge, which is there today, which will be there in the next five years because we will continuously grow the activity and at the same time make it more global and grow the headcount at the same time. I was talking about ESG. I was talking about zero emission in production. Important, of course, to look at that. These are the commitment taken by Plastic Omnium Group for 2025 respectively and 2030. On Scope 1 and 2, what we master at PO, which is what we emit in our processes, in our plants. Our objective is to be neutral in 2025. For Scope 3, which is the rest of the world, which represents a very large share of our global emission, the name of the game here is to reduce by 30% by 2030. This is the corporate commitment, the global one. Of course, for Scope 1 and 2, if I focus on that, 3 legs, I would say to the strategy. The first one, which is the obvious one, to reduce the energy consumption, to switch off the light when you leave the office, to turn down the temperature of the ovens when it's not necessary, etc. The second one, of course, is to replace the fossil energy with the usage of clean energy, green energy. This is a purchasing activity which is involving a lot of our energy suppliers. The rest, of course, is going through compensation, which is PPA, as we call that. Of course, the name of the game will be to increase the two segments on the left and to decrease the segment on the right. These are the three activities that we are entertaining to get there. For New Energies, we have established a plant model. I said that a bit before. All the plants will look the same. You see segments on the picture on the top right. These segments are, in fact, the tranche I was talking about. You know, each tranche is roughly depend on the size of the vessels, is roughly capable of doing 25,000-35,000 vessels. Each time I have to put a new tranche, I have a big box, and I am able to put new tranches of investment and to scale up the CapEx and the capacities according to the business model. This plant will be the one which we will deploy in Europe, in Asia, and in America. Of course, we will focus a lot on what we do. Our commitment is, of course, also to be zero emission at SOP, which is next year for the first one. We are building specific facilities and buildings, in fact, with renewable energies on site, trying to implement wind turbine and of course, solar panels on the roof everywhere. Of course, we'll use PPAs when necessary, but we are also within the building using new strategies that we have designed with our architects and building specialists to be able to reuse the energy. We have a process which is a bit strange for high pressure vessels in particular. We cure our resin, so we have ovens. Ovens are using a lot of energy. We are trying to re-extract the energy that we don't use in this oven and to recirculate it for other tranche of the process with heat pump and stuff like that. Specific technological strategy to set up the buildings with the best condition possible to reduce the energy and to limit the wastes. Of course, there will be a last very important topic, which is recycling. Recycling is the name of the game, especially for hydrogen storage. Carbon fiber is one of the core elements of a hydrogen vessel and hydrogen tank. We are developing specific activities with a couple of startups, with a couple of PhDs right now to really be able to recycle in full the content of a hydrogen vessel. I'm talking about unwinding the carbon fiber, separating first the epoxy resin from the carbon fiber in the product. Then unwinding and rewinding with the same carbon fiber. This is a project which is a bit long-term. By the way, the end of life first generation of hydrogen products will not happen before 2035. We have a couple of years to prepare ourselves, but what we'd like to believe in is that we will be able to reuse a good portion of the carbon fiber, which by the way, is good for environment, but which will be good also for the affordability I was talking about because carbon fiber is an important element of the bill of material and the cost of the product. Of course, all this contribute globally, to the strategy, the ESG and the taxonomy strategy of the group. It's very important. I think we are developing zero-emission vehicles and enabling zero-emission mobility, which obviously is very important. We are increasing, and we will increase the hydrogen revenue and the share of hydrogen revenue in the total growth of the company. Not difficult. It started from 0 a couple of years back so of course, it will grow and change the configuration. At the end of the day, of course, the, the share of the economical revenue of the group which will be eligible to green activities will increase over time and reach 19%. That is written there. There is of course, we hope, more interest also longer term for investors. The contribution that we are doing for sustainable mobility is a virtuous circle that we value a lot in the global offer. That was it. I was as fast as possible. I will hand over to Laurent for the conclusion, and we'll invite Kathleen to join us on stage also for conclusion for the Q&A. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you, Marc. I don't know if it was fast enough. I hope you got all the information you wanted to get about hydrogen. I tried to sum up, but everything was mentioned. I think the last time we met, we were showing you what we have the intention to do. Now it's becoming reality. We got a lot of orders, EUR 4 billion orders. It will be much more in one year. You will see that. We are building factories. We are building capacity. We are investing. That means it is really becoming reality, and we do see a lot of acceleration on the market, on all the markets. What I like the most basically is really that we will invest in all the big regions of the world. That means in Asia, in Europe, in the U.S., because it just shows that the world is investing in hydrogen for the mobility. We have for sure the ambition to be number one, because in everything we do, we have always the ambition to be number one, and we are good on track. That means you do see the market shares we are targeting. And with the order book we have today, we can just confirm those market shares are, I believe, will be even higher. EUR 4 billion order intake, EUR 3 billion sales in 2030, and that's just the start of a journey. For sure, the momentum won't stop in 2030 because we aim for much more and we do see again many players entering into the hydrogen world. That was our presentation. Now we move to the Q&A. We have the support of Kathleen for all the financial questions or the rest if you want, and Marc and myself. I hand over to you. Thomas. The question is always, is it Thomas or Akshat? Boy, that is Thomas. I have a question, please. Two very quick questions. Do you think you can make higher margins with hydrogen in 2030 than with supercharged? Second, Hopium was one of your partners. They seem to have, let's say, changed dimension on the downside. Is there Is there any impact because you gave them balance the check in advance for that? Third, on the long payback for what? Can you talk about the competitive advantage? How can you have more than 20% share in vessels where there are a few other players on the market? Are they sleeping or are you particularly unique? And finally, is there any idea of getting into hydrogen storage on your last slides? Because you may need it for bigger ships and being on the what you call it. Okay. Thank you, Thomas. I answer, and you correct me. Sure. Sure. arding the break even, the target margin. First of all, the target margin, we are targeting basically a higher margin than what we have today in the normal pure world, which is what we need in order also to have a payback with the investment. The ratio investment to sales is not different than what we have in other activities, by the way. We are just, we just need to put in capacity in place. Capacity we are going to use not only for one program, but for much more. But what we are like targeting in term of margin is for sure when the volumes will be here, is for sure higher than the average margin of the group It has to be contributive to the group performance and to the valuation of the group. Therefore, the target is higher than what we have today. The break even for 2025 is our target, remain our target. Will depend on the volumes for sure, but as of today, as of today, there is no reason to change that. We are putting the capacity in place. Marc did explain that what will be very important for us is for sure to invest, but to be pretty cautious. That is the reason why we have been developing, and that is what Marc showed before, scalable facilities. Therefore, even if the customer say, it's 100,000, we invest step by step. That way we mitigate the risk, the exposure, which is important for the free cash flow for sure, but also for the break even because we will have less, for sure less depreciation. Therefore, we are still targeting the break even in 2025. Regarding Hopium was, first of all, was not start of production before 2025. There is no impact on 2025. Then in the way we do assess the order intake, we always discount depending on the maturity of the customer. If you are Stellantis, doesn't mean that we believe everything what they do announce, but we discount to build the volumes because it's normal. It's a new technology. It can be 10%-20%. If it's a newcomer like Hopium, because nobody knows if they are able to produce a car, we may discount 90%-95% in our investment, in our assessment of the business. There is no impact on 2025. Basically, we wanted to use the same capacities than the ones we are putting in place for Stellantis and HYVIA. There is no impact for us, Hopium, basically. Just a pity that a French player cannot play an important role, but maybe they will find a way to make it happen. By the way, the issues they are facing are not linked to hydrogen. Hopium, they are just realizing that if you want to produce a car, you need to invest at least EUR 1 billion or EUR 2 billion, and not EUR 100 million. It doesn't work. That is the reason. No matter of battery, hydrogen or combustion engine. That is, I believe, the main topic they have. The competitive landscape. I mean, first of all, we have today in the fuel system, we are more or less 25% market share, which is a very mature market. A lot of players since many years, and a big part which is still produced by the customers themselves. Therefore, to target 25%, for us, it was logic for hydrogen, new technology, less players, and no intention from our customers to produce high pressure vessel internally. Except Toyota today, but they will probably change their strategy tomorrow. Therefore, the size of the market, which is addressable, is even bigger than the one in fuel system. As of today, difficult to know, but for the big volumes, Marc was saying that we have probably more than 50% market shares. Are the others sleeping? I don't know. I'm not with the others, but I know that we are not sleeping, that the team is doing a fantastic job. I think we have really a great advantage in term of technology. Marc did explain, you saw that before, that inside the vessel, you have a plastic part, the blow molding part, which is very important for the competitiveness and the performance of the high pressure vessel. That is something we are doing since many years for the fuel system. That means it's coming from the same technology, and that is something the competitors don't have. They are not able to produce those kind of big parts out of blow molding. There are different technologies, and they are less competitive in term of cost, but also in term of safety, basically. On top of that, in term of carbon fiber, we are the ones having invested in ComposiCad, which is the company developing the software to optimize the way you use the carbon fiber around the vessel. Therefore, I think in term of technology, we have great assets. I believe that the team is very agile to work with the customers to convince them and to try to combine what we have today as assets with the CES solution and business and to invest in new technology. Therefore, I strongly believe it's because of our performance much more than because of our of the competition, which is not dying. In term of hydrogen storage, do we want to explore new opportunities of market? It was not the main priority because the big volumes are first of all in what we saw before, and the order book is about EUR 4 billion. The order book, potentially, the order book could double in the next 12 months, basically, with all the activities we have. We believe there is probably a market which is going to develop to develop the infrastructure, not for the stationary one, but for the ones you may need to refuel or and so on, some fleets. That is something we are going to investigate probably in China, for example, because that is what our partner is doing in China. That will be a good market for us because for that you need to have also a different sales force and so on. You are addressing that to different customers. As Marc explained, we are extremely happy of the partner we have in China because the Shenergy Group is a huge company. They do provide 90% of the gas in Shanghai. 90% is a lot. 30%-35% of the electricity. Therefore, they are the energy provider of the Shanghai region, and they are investing in the complete ecosystem of hydrogen from production, infrastructure, distribution. Being their partner for the mobility segment will open us a lot of market in China, not only for the mobility itself, but what you did mention before. Okay. That is the tradition in people. Thomas, and after Akshat. Thank you. Three questions from me as well, please. The first one on China. In your analysis of the market and when you're creating this JV, can you just talk about the competitive landscape in the market today? How many players are competing in fuel cell stacks, fuel tanks? What do you think is a market share that is actually achievable in that region going out to 2030? That's the first question. The second question is on your total investments. I know you talk about average EUR 100 million per year. Do you have a more concrete plan in terms of how much do you plan to spend now in 2023, 2024, and 2025 based on the order book that you already have? The last question is more on your CapEx strategy and how you think about retooling your plants, i.e., pilot facilities versus mega plants. Now you have a big order in North America. You're spending money on a mega plant, opening that facility for that OEM. How do you hedge your risks there if the volumes don't match up to your expectations or if the market is slow in coming up? Thank you. Maybe I answer the second, the last question, and Marc will answer the first ones which are very specific to the market. In terms of investment, we try as much as possible to reuse what we have today. We started in Europe in Evanthes, which is an existing facility producing SCR system, fuel tank. We did use the surface to make the first production of high pressure vessel, and we are investing in more capacity there because we can reuse people, potentially equipment, we can share the cost. That is very, very efficient. That is the same way we have been starting in the U.S. with the Adrian factory Marc was mentioning. In Korea, we are also trying to be very close to an existing factory. That is the most efficient way to start. Now, when we are talking of a big plant, mega plant we are mentioning, like in France, in Compiègne. In Compiègne, we had the possibility either to reuse an existing facility for fuel systems because we are there, or to set up a new factory. Because we want to be also carbon neutral in the production, it was even more costly to renew a 40 or 50 years factory instead of building up a new one. Therefore, we are close to the existing one. We can reuse the people, which is good for the people, which is good for the social cost as well. We start from scratch because in term of efficiency, it's much better. In the U.S., we have the group problem that our facilities are all fully booked. That means we have not only booked big orders for hydrogen, but also for the fuel systems. You may have heard that with the same OEM, which is good for our strategy because it does demonstrate that that is exactly what the customers are expecting from us. That is this big American OEM gave us a big business on hydrogen, but also is consolidating the fuel system business around us, killing the competition and giving us much more business than what we had in the past. Therefore, our facilities are fully booked in the U.S. We don't have space, therefore, for Marc, there is no possibility to reuse some space. As much as possible, we try to reuse. I let you answer on the, on the China topic. Yes. Small component also to this point of the pilot line, and the mega plant, Richard. The pilot line we are using, the ratio between the two is 1: 10, roughly in CapEx, 1: 10, so the pilot line investment is way lower in capacity. If this capacity remains, it will be kept also for the smaller customers in volume. Trains, buses, companies, etc, with standard products. I think we have really two segments of our activity. One which is in volume is marginal. This type of buses, public transportation elements that we would keep in the pilot line dedicated to this type of customers. Of course, the large OEMs, the blue chips, where we would have the mega plants and the way larger volume. This is the way we could also segment by continent, these two facilities. For your first question about the competition in China, really different for the two product lines. For the storage of hydrogen, there are basically five, six companies in China well established today, so sharing the market. On the Type 3 technology and the former technology, which is the metal, the aluminum liner. The Type 4 has been recently introduced to the Chinese market, and of course, OPmobility, but also Faurecia, but also Hexagon Purus, they came to China partnering with companies. This is what we did with Rein Hytech. This is what our key competitors I just mentioned have done also with a few of the local players. Now the switch to the new technology is the name of the game. Speed is the name of the game. There are a lot of competitors, but the technology of Type 4 is brought by Western companies and players today. The introduction of those new facilities that we are building and that probably the competition will try to build will be the new setup of Type 4 technology, which will little by little replace completely the old technology. Investing quickly in China is probably the name of the game to acquire the new market shares of the changeover around the technologies. That's my vision for storage. For fuel cell stacks, it's a crazy and fantastic market in China. A lot of activities, a lot of great companies also. You have first OEMs willing to introduce their own technology and developing it. This is a case of Great Wall for FTXT, which is a subsidiary developing a fuel cell stack and system technology. SAIC does that also with SHPT, Shanghai Hydrogen Power Train. You have a great company called REFIRE, which is Chinese, developing great techno. Here again, China has been closed for a couple of years for obvious reasons. I think to our disadvantage, we are not able really to connect with those companies and to see where they were. Now we are getting back to China, being able to realize what has been done over the last three years. The good news for us is that they were not allowed to get out of their country either during that time. The race is starting again. I think there is very good techno. Our target and our technology today is EKPO based. In Suzhou, Shanghai province, we are locating today. We have manual assemblies of stack. We will localize bipolar plates production over time to be able to have local content. It's very important in China to have local content. I'm very confident with the quality and the performance of our stack, but we need to make it local to succeed in China. This is the name of the game. I think the Chinese market is much more crowded, as Marc was mentioning, for the fuel cell stack than for the storage system. Therefore, I think we can be confident to have the 25% market share on storage plus, because also we have the right partner. That's important, not only the technology. For the fuel cell stack, it's much more crowded because there are a lot of great players, and therefore it will be difficult to say how much we can achieve, but it will be much more competition on that. Coming back to the. Can you hear me? I think you should be able to. Yeah. To the total investment and the profile of investment that you referred to. As we said, roughly EUR 100 million per year on average. When we announced our hydrogen strategy in 2020, we've projected to 2030, it's not very difficult to see roughly what the scale-up will be. We'll be around EUR 1 billion- EUR 1.1 billion in total investment. As you can see from the ramp-up of the volumes that we showed in the slide, the peak of the investment with what we see today, with the orders that we have today and the visibility that we have today, will start this year. It will essentially be between 2024 and 2027. As you saw, the start of productions will be, you know, from next year onwards with a big portion in 2026. From the order position today that we have, as of 2028, it should go down again. Unless we win new orders, of course, and then it's another story. Based on the current situation today, that's the profile. If I can complement a little bit to make it very simple, you have seen that we are building four plants right now, Korea, China, U.S. and France. We have those pilot lines, but again, the entry ticket for the CapEx is way lower. The ballpark figure for one big plant of HPV is around EUR 100 million. With the spreads that Kathleen explained, spending the money from today to 2027, and with the subsidies impact that we are getting, this is also mitigating a little bit our CapEx because we are not only spending industrial CapEx, we are also spending cash on technology. Globally, the ballpark figure of EUR 100 million per year makes sense. Thanks for taking my question. Pierre from Stifel. Three, if I may, on your profitability roadmap, do you still have the same assumptions regarding new energy vehicle losses for 2023, which should be around -EUR 35 million if I'm not mistaken? First one. Second one, regarding free cash flow, when will you stop cash absorption and reach free cash flow breakeven? Should we think about 2027, 2028? Last maybe more to Marc, that one. What's your unique selling point in the hydrogen business versus your key French competitor? What makes you different from Siemens? Is it techno, the cost? Maybe a follow-up on that one, regarding shareholding structure, would you be happy to welcome an OEM on board? Thanks. I answer the last question. Okay. Because I know where it is coming from. No. We have nothing against OEM, but I think for us it's important. It's a long-term strategy, hydrogen. We believe in 20 years there will be a lot of, a lot of, kind of mobility being part, I mean, having hydrogen, sorry. We don't want to take the risk to lose the independency to address the complete market. Never say no. Nobody knows what can happen. For us, it's much more important to keep the market addressable as big as possible instead of having a, maybe a strong partner, giving us opportunity on short notice, but preventing us to have other opportunities on long term. Therefore, it's really not our strategy. Could we find another partner giving us other opportunities to grow or supporting the growth, opening markets, different kind of market? Why not? It has to open us markets and not to close us a big part of the market. Therefore, the OEM is for sure not the profile of the company we'd like to have with us to develop the hydrogen, the hydrogen business. Coming back to your first question, Pierre-Yves, if you would allow me, it's not facetious, my answer. We're not making losses. We're investing in the future. There's a distinction between what is eligible as CapEx and OpEx, but it really is an investment. Why? Because the essential part of that investment is linked to the ramp-up of the staffing that we showed you before. You have the right ballpark figure in mind for 2023, which is fairly stable. It's basically the same amount as in 2022. As you can see, we're really mastering the situation, and looking for productivity even in these activities where if we can, I'd say more synergies with the other activities and the competencies, the shared services, that we have in the group. In terms of free cash flow, the cash absorption most likely will probably be 2027, 2028, as you could see, where we've got the more leverage in the ramp-up of the volumes. you know, keep in mind, we want this to be a growing business. you know, if it does continue to grow, in particular beyond 2030, if we start looking at the passenger vehicle segment and things like that, there may be a new campaign of investment that's required. That's the current situation. Question number three, I will take this one. Competition, of course, I won't comment, and I won't say obviously that I'm better than them. What we sell, that I can comment. Laurent Favre mentioned it. I think we have a core technology of storage of energy, which is giving us an edge when it comes to hydrogen storage solutions. It derives from our capability to master and to be credible with customers on safety products, implementation, certification, production. It also derives from our global background of technology in blow molding of the liners. It's not minor. It is the plastic envelope that you have seen outside, you know, before the carbon implementation. It's not nothing, because we do millions of fuel systems every year, so we know what it means to scale up this type of technology. Where the alternatives in process are more adapted to smaller volumes or more expensive or creating more risks. I think the background and the techno of Clean Energy Systems division brings a lot of value and credit to our offer. We have invested since 2015 in unique design tool. Laurent was also mentioning ComposiCad. I think in terms of developing, putting in place technical facilities, I mentioned the one in Belgium. We are doing the extra mile, and we are focusing, and OPmobility has been focusing on hydrogen development, and I think that is starting to pay back. In fuel cell, we have a fantastic product. I was very proud to bring some of you and you, Pierre, even, Dettingen last year. I think what you have seen makes a difference when it comes to customer. It was not well known, 2021, when we created the JV, but I think the more customers are coming to us and visiting the facility, the more they realize that the offer that we have is more industrial, more advanced, more powerful than some of the alternative offers. I think the product quality pays also in that side. Of course, we need to maintain this advantage and to continue to develop. We are just at the beginning of the hydrogen story. The generation, the current generation of products will not prevail in 2030, yeah? It's still a lot of technical development coming up, but I think this is what I would call our competitive advantages. Then the fuel cell stack, you correct me, Marc, but I think we are able to design and produce the bipolar plates, which are very important in terms of value adding. It's not only the assembly, it's what makes really the performance of the stack. That means the design, how precise the bipolar plates are. You manage the cost, the quality and the power density, which is the most important and the durability which is the most important in the fuel cell stack. You have the players who are in the game since many years, they are coming from the graphite technology, which is just too expensive for big volumes. They are moving to steel. You have other players not being able to produce their bipolar plates and trying to do that. They don't have access to this technology, and we are probably better in terms of performance. I think we do see that even more when we go to high power fuel cell stack. For smaller ones, it's much more about cost and price. When you go to bigger kind of mobility or huge performance for 100 kW or even more, then the market is not so crowded, and then we have a big advantage in this field. Another question in the room? No. Maybe somebody in the chat. Yes, we have some question in the chat. The first one would be, could you break down the order intake of EUR 4 billion into vessels, stack, and systems? Marc? Yes, sure. globally, between PU and EKPO in this order book, there is roughly 75%, which is in hydrogen storage solutions, vessels and systems associated. The rest, which is associated to fuel cell technology, could be components, bipolar plate stacks or integrated systems. The share is 75% storage, 25% fuel cell stacks and system. Next question. Are the orders locked in the EUR 4 billion at the current system cost, or do you still need to achieve a significant reduction to fulfill the requirement of the orders? It's a good question. No, it's a very good question. Of course, there is a ramp down of the cost, which is already built in the orders and the prices, obviously, yeah? When you have an order, a large one, for example, in America, which is starting in the production in 2026 but finishing in business after 2030, of course, we have to converge on the price and the cost as we scale up the volume. It has been, of course, averaged and calculated and negotiated with the customer. Definitely the ramp down of the cost, the competitiveness targets that we discussed a bit before, basically between now and 2030, decreasing the cost of a storage solution by 20%-25% overall is still there and has been built in the order intake. The value of EUR 4 billion you have takes that into account. For the fuel cell stacks, it's even in systems, it's even larger target. If you were to take the cost of today, of 2023, it would be way higher than what we have in the order book. Definitely by 2030, we need roughly ballpark figure to divide by EUR 5 the price per kW. This is the target of the market, and this is what we are building in our business plan, in our offers, that the ramp up of the volumes will allow to ramp down the cost. Again, to remention, the technology you have in a fuel cell stack is about steel stamping, is about stainless steel in terms of material, of course, membranes, but the price of a membrane, an electrolytic membrane, is also very proportional to the quantities, to the volumes by square meters that you use. After that is robotized assembly, it's larger facilities. All this is well-known technology in the automotive and mobility world, which have a lot of potential to decrease over time. We think and we feel that it is achievable when the volume will be there, that the cost of fuel cell stacks will be dramatically decreased compared to today. It has been, of course, embarked in the offers and the other intake. What is important to understand, there is no bet on technology. We don't sell a high pressure vessel today, betting that in five years we can divide, I don't know, the quantity of carbon fiber by five because we will find a great idea. No, the technology is developed, is being validated and so on. We will have a volume effect just because of buying more carbon fiber, producing more parts, having facilities with much more automation, basically. Therefore, there is no bet on technology. There is just the volume impact basically. Therefore I don't say there is never no risk, but there is no bet on technology. What is important as well is to understand is on hydrogen, we depend not so much on raw material prices than on other technologies. If you take the battery, we all know that depending on the cobalt, lithium and some price, you can have huge variation. We are not so depending on that, which is also important in term of, yeah, safety of our margin tomorrow. Last question coming from the chat: How far advanced are you on the journey to the target system cost? Did the inflation derail the plan to some degree? Inflation is impacting everything when it comes to energy cost, when it comes to raw material, of course. If you look at today, at least 2023. Now the impact, we were talking more bottom market ramping up between 2025, 2026 and 2030. I think it's a bit more difficult to predict. Globally, there is an impact today which exists, which is coming from energy. It impacts the carbon fiber price, for example, because there is a lot of energy content in the carbon fiber. This has been put also in the discussion, the economical discussion with most of our customers with an index, indexation system which is related to energy, raw material, obviously. This part exists, but has been isolated, I would say, from the equation with the commercial discussions. I think for the rest down the road, our point is also to decrease our cost mechanically. Today, I answered that chat question with a ballpark figure for an investment for a plant, which is the vision of today. Some of the equipment we are using in the plants, they are very specific. They are the first generation. They are what I believe is that down the road also, this ticket of EUR 100 million for a mega plant of hydrogen vessels will be at EUR 80 million, will be at EUR 70 million, will be perhaps at EUR 50 million in 5-8 years because we'll develop more suppliers in best cost countries also, create competition, and that will decrease the fixed cost which is in the cost breakdown. Impact of energy, raw material, yes. Mitigated with customer as much as we can with pass-through and with indexation rules. Globally, I think, there is a lot of credibility still in the cost decrease roadmap, which does not change the global 10 years long perspective that we have exchanged. No question? No, currently. We have one in the room. Yes, one on hiring people. Do you have any difficulties in some scope? Do you experience difficulties to find experienced people or even other people you may need? Thank you. Do you take this one or you want to take it? I start and then you try to think about that. No, Marc was saying that out of the team he has, a decent portion is coming from PO as well. Therefore, we try to reuse. It's 50%. 50%- 60%. Yes. 50%- 60% people coming from PO and seeing an opportunity to do something new. Many of them are coming from the combustion engine part, it's a great opportunity for them to enter into the hydrogen business. If you talk about purchasing program and so on. Quality. These are people, quality. They know our systems, they know how to work, and they can do hydrogen easily. Then you have specific knowledge you need to have from specific technology. For sure, there is a challenge to find the right skills because there are not so many experts. It's a crowded market. I think we have the right profile because it's, Marc was talking about the fridge and the fridge before. The fridge is not always full, and sometimes he cannot open the door. Don't be afraid. We have a great advantage because we have a dedicated hydrogen division. They are very agile in the way they are working. It's not part of the company and many processes and so on. They are working for a company which is very strong in term of financials and so on. Therefore, it's a kind of advantage from startup mode, fast, agile, we move forward, but with industry behind and we have existing facilities. We, yeah, we are solid basically. There are not so many players. Therefore, there are many people being in hydrogen since many years, coming from competition which is not having this solidity in term of in term of industrial setup, moving to us, or others willing to come to a company which is more agile in the way they are doing business because this kind of business needs agility. Yes, there is a race for talent, but I think we have a kind of unique profile because we try to combine both, and that is the reason why we decided one and a half year ago to have a dedicated division for hydrogen also to have a different way of working. With this kind of business, with a standard process of a company like PO, you kill the people with processes. Many thanks for your time. Many thanks for being here. We will come back to you with great news. You will see that in the coming months as well because again, the market accelerating and which is a great opportunity for Plastic Omnium. Thank you. Have a nice journey. Thank you very much.