Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the 2024 annual results presentation of Singamas Container Holdings Limited. First of all, I'd like to introduce to you the management of the company. Mr. S.S. Teo, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Ms. Winnie Su, Executive Director and Chief Operating Officer. Ms. Rebecca Chung, Executive Director, Chief Financial Officer, and Company Secretary. Mr. Teo will now present the company's annual results. All the financial figures in the presentation are in US dollars unless otherwise stated. Mr. Teo, please. Thank you. Good afternoon, and thanks for coming in this cold day. Thank you for joining us. We'll go through the presentation by looking into Singamas' corporate profile, our industry dynamics, financial, and business review. As a renowned container manufacturer, leasing, and logistics service provider, Singamas currently operate five factories in China. Our total annual capacity is now at about 270,000 TEU of dry freight container and ISO specialized container and 20,000 units of tanks and customized container. For our leasing business, we currently own a fleet of about 120,000 TEU of leasing containers. Apart from that, Singamas also runs eight container depots across China major port cities and one logistics company in Xiamen. Slide 6 to 9 cover our signature product, sorry. Signature product, ranging from traditional dry freight and ISO specialized container to our innovative customized container, including container for energy storage system, data center, car racks, housing, and more. We also offer container solution. The core product of our Singamas customized container is what we call ESS, energy storage system. ESS container facilitate efficient electricity storage and release, benefiting user by allowing electricity as consumption at a lower price and more efficient manner. This container ensure stability in new energy power generation. ESS container are designed to withstand extreme condition, such as high altitude, very high and very low temperature, high pressure, and condensation, and sandstorm. Featuring double-layered thermal insulation and robust structure for operation in various challenging environment. To capture the growing market and leverage our expertise in ESS container manufacturing, Green Tenaga was established in Singapore. Green Tenaga is Malay. Green, as you know, is green energy. Tanaga means energy. It is poised to become the key growth engine for the group. We are dedicated to accelerating the journey towards net zero emission and carbon neutral by providing cutting-edge sustainable battery energy storage system solution across the industry. Green Tenaga is revolutionizing the sustainable energy with our cutting-edge battery energy storage system. Our solution seamlessly integrate renewable energy, optimize energy usage, support EV charging and smart mobility, enhance grid responsiveness, and provide reliable off-grid power for remote areas. By driving innovation in energy management, we empower businesses and communities worldwide towards a greener future. Slide 12 and 13 covers our leasing business. For our leasing business, robust and significant growth was realized in the year under report. By the end of December 2024, we own a fleet of about 120,000 TEU of leasing containers. Specializing in one-stop container leasing services, we deliver new container from our factories to various ports in China and cooperate with our long-term shipping and freight forwarding partners to deliver new container to major ports over the world. Our customers also benefit from our extensive network of off-hire location. Singamas is a major operator of 8 container depot in China, with over 30 years of industry experience. We maintain strong ties with key port operators in China and foster relationship with major shipping lines and leasing companies. Our logistics service business focuses on enhancing warehousing capabilities, integrating multi-modal transport resources, improve digital operation capabilities for efficiency, and collaborating with service provider to expand network coverage. Now let's look our industry trend. In 2024, worldwide new container production surge to over 8.3 million TEU, maybe record in history, following the closure of Suez Canal and a surge in U.S. imports prior to the U.S. election. However, a significant decline is anticipated in 2025, with production expected to drop to about 2.5 million TEU. From 8.3 million to 2024 to 2.5 million this year expected. This decrease will be attributed to a gradual restoration in the Red Sea crisis and reducing needs for rerouting. Additionally, new U.S. tariff policy slowing down global trade also contribute to the projected decline in new container demand. The chart on page 17 shows the ASP, average selling price trend for 20-foot dry freight container and related average steel cost count over the year. Due to oversupply of dry freight containers in the market and the decrease in steel cost, the ASP in 2024 slightly decreased from $2,075 to $1,985 despite strong market demand. In 2024, the average selling steel cost was $553 per ton, 6.1% lower than FY 2023. According to Drewry, leasing rate are projected to remain subdued throughout the forecast period. In 2025, a significant drop in lease rate is anticipated across all dry freight equipment due to the weakening demand. Concurrently, initial cash return are expected to slightly ease following the decline in leasing rates, with 20-foot units projected to yield between 9.3%-9.4% initially up to 2028, while 40-foot high cube is forecast to generate return of 9.4%-9.5% per year. Let's move on to our financial review. Revenue increased by 52% to $582.8 million due to strong demand of containers during the year reporting. Consolidated net profit due to owners of the company rose by 76% to $34.1 million, including fair value losses from investment properties and one-off gain on disposal recognized during the year. Basic earning per share reached $0.0143 for the year, increase of 74%. As of December 31, 2024, our net asset value per share was US$0.2347 compared to US$0.2316 end of 2023. A final dividend of HKD 0.05 per share has been proposed for the year ended December 31, 2024. Together with the interim dividend of HKD 0.03, the total dividend for the year was US$0.08 per share, about 72% payout ratio. Let's move on to business review section. This slide 26 show the performance of our manufacturing and leasing business. The segment achieved revenue of $553.6 million, which account for 95% of the group total revenue. Segment profit before tax and non-controlling interest was about $44.5 million. This slide shows a breakdown of container units sold under different product categories and accordingly, the respective revenue generated. The table on the left shows that Singamas sold about 216,000 TEU of dry freight container during the year. The pie chart on the right shows that the sales of dry freight container made up 72.2% of our manufacturing revenue. For customized container, a total of 20,000 units were sold during the period. Revenue attributed to this reached 21.2%. Leasing revenue also included in the manufacturing and leasing segment had accounted, and accounted for 1.5% of the group total revenue during the year. Finance lease interest income was $2.8 million, while operating lease income was $5.6 million. This slide 29, shows the performance of logistics service business. Revenue was $229.2 million and segment profit before tax and non-controlling interest was $8.5 million. This slide present our marketing and operating strategy in the year to come. To improve the anticipated decrease the dry freight container demand, the group will stay agile by adjusting our production schedule to utilize our resources in more efficient way. Meanwhile, we will continue to focus on introducing new product and services to new markets. For example, our latest setup in Singapore, Green Tenaga, is to introduce Southeast Asia to provide battery energy storage system solution for diverse industry and application. Of course, we will maintain a cautious approach to capital expenditures. While safety and environment production will remain a key focus to achieve further growth, we will continue to invest in customized container project with higher growth potential and increase automation initiative to improve efficiency. Page 31 to 35 in Appendix of this presentation contain what show our income statement as well as our factory and depot data for your further reference. That conclude my presentation. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Teo. If you have any questions, feel free to raise your hand. We'll take questions from the floor first, and then we'll see if there's any questions from our online joiners after. English, Cantonese, or Mandarin? You can, yeah, you can raise questions in Cantonese, Mandarin or English. Our colleague will pass you the mic. 大家可以随便发问，看有没有想问管理层。 我想请问一下，为什么Tank还有那个ISO Special，他们就是大几年下降了那么多啊，就他们的sales volume？ 我们肖总答复。 谢谢你的问题。冠象的业务呢，跟全球的经济蛮有关系的，特别是那个欧洲方面的这个汽车还有能源方面。当然大家都知道，那个俄乌战争啊，令到整个欧洲的能源的费率都很高嘛，所以直接影响他们汽车方面的业务。整个欧洲的经济带受影响了，使用相关的这个运输工具也带受影响。除了我们以外，我们也看到我们的竞争对手，去年在冠象的业务跌幅也是很大的。 就是应收垫付是吧？ 对，对，对，对，对。 看有没有其他问题。 我想请教一下你们的ESS这一块，你们是做那个总承包商的角色吗？因为你们公司应该是没有做电器的那个部分，那你们的主要合作方是谁？然后你们这个生意，目前的主要客户是在什么地方？谢谢。 我们ESS就是Energy Storage System的这个业务，主要有四个范围。第一，我们主要是做集装箱这个箱体，里面的电芯，里面的pack，里面的PCS，还有这个防火系统、降温系统，很多都是客户的，送到我们的工厂，我们有另外一些场地开始做集成方面的。比如说客户把相关的电气一式送到我们的工厂以后，我们提供一些cable，帮整个所有集成的工作来完成。所以我们呢，是除了做这个箱体，也有做集成。第三呢，今年呢，因为我们engineer的技术层面越来越好，所以我们也有做测电，就是整个ESS集成做完以后，我们会有电流测电的这一块的这个服务。所以呢，我们有加了这个测电站的这个服务。那最后一方面，ESS关于刚才我们的主席讲，我们在新加坡开了一个green tech的，把行业上面做这一块非常专业的人才，比如Schneider Electric、ABB，他们主要就是做海外一些solar energy farm这些业务。那我们这个业务呢，比我刚才说的这一块就更多了。因为我们可以透过全公司把这个中国集成了的业务呢，可以直接送到海外。那相对来说，海外的业务没有中国这么赚。海外的业务相对来说，从那个使用，还有这个价钱，都会比中国那边好。所以我们主要也放了很多资源在海外，铺垫我们的销售网络。 首先，很多管理层，我有一个问题想问，就是我看到很多航运的行业，其实大家对于2025年的outlook其实都很差，因为大家知道红海这样如果一旦疏通的话，基本上应该所有的船公司应该是亏损。包括可能一些以星，或者可能COSCO，他们其实都已经warning了市场，因为这两年我们新增的船其实很多。那么刚才我都跟货柜和中集，他们可能都陆续会出来同投资者见面，他们都如公司所讲，2024年其实我们做了很多集装箱，2021年也都做了很多集装箱，那么到2025年其实应该在这个市场里面应该是超级饱和。但是我们胜狮怎么样在一个马上即将在寒冬的情况下，怎么样可以去面对这个困局呢？如果是2025年，就是这个以巴的战争的确是停止了，然后红海已经是畅通，整个航运的周期可能要进入十年的寒冬。我们在未来在一个这样的情况下，我们整个公司的布局，甚至我们会怎么样去做呢？我们集装箱方面会不会亏损？然后我们未来的资源是不是就完全地倾向我们现在这个ESS的业务里面，我们对于投资者，我们应该怎么样去想我们公司未来可能三到五年一个中期的想法。感谢。 OK，你这个问题其实是，因为我本身又是新加坡太平船务的执行主席，所以打两顶帽啊。其实你这个问题是应该困扰了我们很久。当然你说2025呢，第一，你是特朗普当总统之后呢，宣布了很多tariff啊，那么我这边都有讲，这个tariff是影响到世界的贸易的。除了说是因为那个tariff而影响到那个消费通胀，还有就是很多不明的因素。那么红海的开通呢，是的确是，因为我们估计红海这个，这些船经过这个好望角，行的位是大概吸收了8%的world fleet来的。那么现在我们看最新的报告呢，现在大概新做的船呢，是等于现有的船队的28%，所以是一个非常，就是oversupply。那么其实你说寒冬，我们公司经常都有这个，就是说怎么去prepare经过，经历这段时间。所以我有，就是我有几个answer，那么我再请肖总和钟总再补充。一个就是说我们本身我们的production capacity不是那么大，我们只是27万，所以我们不是那些大工，大工厂。大工厂在时势好的时候呢，会赚很多钱，但是时势不好的时候呢，它又会很辛苦的。所以我们是在strategic location，我们在上海，我们在厦门，在惠州，我们有我们自己的工厂，同时我们有和其他那些单一的厂合作。譬如说在单独在青岛一间厂的，单独在扬州一间厂的，在宁波呢，我们会合作，就是说我有单，我做得给你，你有单你给我。这个就是我们可能一句中国话叫包团出乱，这个是一个办法。就是我们在这个寒冬，怎么尽量将我们的overhead压低，但是尽量单多落点，这个第一。第二来讲呢，因为我们的，我们的干商的业务呢，是虽然那个量是大大，占到我们的绝对的那个turnover呢，今年大概是70左右，77点，73。但是我们，我们另外两个，我们有很有信心增长呢，一个就是leasing business，租商。租商我可能你问，你怎么可能与大公司比较。因为大家最近都可能看到一间Triton收购的，叫做GIC，GIC是我的朋友来的，收购价钱非常的高。其实现在两大那个，两大租商公司，Textainer和Triton呢，都是基金拥，拥有的。那么，所以基金拥有来讲呢，它对那个，那个income呢有一个看法。作为，作为小的租商公司，因为我们现在有12万个TEU呢，我们相对来讲呢，会比较灵活，会比较，服务会好一点。所以就算是那些世界最大的公司，包括地中海啊，包括Evergreen啊，包括阿波罗，都会同我们来租。所以租商不是只是大公司，其实我反而觉得在亚洲需要一间小而美的这个租商公司来配合这些大公司的需求。那么再加上我们自己有工厂，我们工厂就会supply给我们的那个租商公司。那么在第三呢，就是新能源。其实这个我们叫做customized container。定制箱呢，是我们五年前设立的一个目标。那么其实我看到就是说，我们的那个新能源箱呢，就因为我们是，借我们做container那个基础，我们的基地，我们的那个工人，来发展这个定制箱。定制箱的做法来讲呢，其实就，它不只是工厂，而是整个那个ecosystem，包括和它的电池箱啊，和那些灭火supplier什么呢，就，就是，就是怎么来结合起来。定制箱不是说你等下开几间厂就做到的。再加上我们很骄傲呢，我们是世界一流的那些，那些buyer都和我们买，包括譬如ABB啊，包括很多中国大的，譬如说华能啊，譬如这个太阳什么，太阳什么？阳光电源。阳光电源，都是我们的大客户来的。所以其实这方面呢，是我们觉得，是啊，我们有一个，我们有一个做得，就是我们有一个做得立足的点。再加上我们现在发展东南亚，东南可能你们看到就是，尤其是新加坡政府呢，对这个新能源是非常之注重的，包括它的target，如果我没错呢，是在几年之后呢，差不多是有6个gigawatt的电呢，由东南亚进来，包括在印尼的巴淡岛啊，包括在廖内群岛。那么这些电过来之后呢，它必须要转换的，因为你那些新能源的电是DC，怎么转换，怎么去storage呢，是一个solution。所以Green Tenaga在新加坡呢，它是provide这个new energy solution，可以借助我们胜狮在中国那个基地，包括我和供应商的关系，包括我们工厂自己生产的新能源箱呢，是直接供应给我们新加坡公司的。所以这，这两个点呢，是我有信心我们公司做得到过这个难关的。可能Winnie补充。 那么正如我们刚才所说，我们的strategy呢，就不是眼前见到问题才准备。他刚才描述了，整个行业如果你all egg in one basket呢，你就很难有一个比较resilient的operating performance, right？所以在三年半前，我们已经有两个铺垫，新胜狮就是diversification。Diversification的objective就是有两个，第一就是除了班轮公司的业务，我们要在不同的赛道来增加我们的revenue的new stream。另外一个chairman刚才讲了，我们有balance sheet是很strong的，我们有工厂，我们有一个非常有经验的团队开始做租赁业务了。那么有个资料呢，我们的CFO可以再详细点给你呢，就是在过去三年我们做租赁的业务呢，其实remaining lease period还超过五年的。那么所以我想这个利润的稳定性是会相当相当好，令到整个胜狮的盈利结构和收入结构呢，是可以抗衡到不同时候的一些行业的fluctuation的。 Rebecca 有 补 充 。 大家其实在announcement那里都看到啦，因为刚才Winnie讲的leasing的业务呢，其实我们2024年的deal size比起2023年是more than double。那么因为这样东西呢，其实令到我们之后每一年呢，其实就算我们现在没有新的、新增长的leasing deal，每一个月都起码有一个million的收入。那么所以这一方面都可以稳定干商的up and down啦。那么还有刚才讲开新能源那边的，新能源商啦，那么其实GP一直我们都有在不同的时候都有提到，虽然说这一两年呢，那个市场是相对卷了一点啦，但是比起一般的干柜业务呢，GP都是相对稳定和是高一点的。那么这一方面我们也都在量，每一年其实都有一个很稳定的增长。虽然今年看到percentage看上去好像比起去年是相对低了，但是其实absolute的revenue generate出来的absolute revenue是比以前是更加多。那么就是说我们其实在新能源商的业务是有一个持续和一个很稳定的增长。 大部分新能源的客户呢，和我们传统班轮公司的客户呢，他有一个decision making process是很不同呢，就是他work with你，你能够provide到一个product是fit他那个项目的engineering requirement和safety requirement呢，其实他switching cost是很大的。所以正如Rebecca这样讲呢，我们现在一些好，已经接了很多project的客户，当他继续接project的时候呢，他考虑回用胜狮呢，这个motivation是很大的，不是说便宜就可以抢到我的生意欸，简单来说。那么我觉得这个是，是品牌啦，我们的生产质量啦，和有很多同客户交流的一些solution啦，就很难replicate的，我们的竞争对手。 你好，我有几个问题想请教一下。第一个就是，咱们那个制造和出租的业务没有一个break down，就是大概占比是多少各自。这个能... 不好意思，我听得不是很清楚。 就因为我看我们的数据，那个制造业务收入和那个leasing的收入是合并在一起的，报表上。大概各占多少比例大概。 那个leasing二四年占我们大概1.5%收入的1.5%。 然后我想问我们这个制造这块，和比如说其他竞争者，中集啊这些……谢谢。 你问了两个问题，第一个就是我们的competitive edge是在哪里？我们的competitive edge，从客户来说，他去买一个集装箱，从班轮公司角度，价钱当然很重要，地点当然很重要。但是有一个非常重要的，我们比我们竞争对手做得好的就是reliability，就是诚信。我们接了一个单子，好，超过100%，我们会按照我们跟客户的承诺可以实现的。这个是非常非常对客户来说有价值的。因为当他采购箱子的时候，他会按照他的需求来做一个预估，如果箱子不能如期给他们的话，会影响他们接货的能力。这个是我们比中国内地的一些公司来得可靠性高很多的。那另外一个就是我们一站式服务，好，客户有时候买箱，他是要经过董事会的批准，相关的申请，那我们可以租箱，也可以买箱。所以客户在来不及的时候，我们也有库存，这个是比一般工厂只能提供定制的这个业务来得更配合客户的及时需求。所以产融结合，我们的生产跟融资结合，客户是非常喜欢的。好，那你第二个问题，那个中伟问题，就是不是我们独有，全球的所有人都会受这个影响。但是我们觉得这方面我们看的就是，要小心地管理你现在的这个业务，包括我们的采购，我们capacity的planning，我们的credit risk management，这些我们都会加强sanction country的一些corporate governance，这些我们都会比过去特别关注还有注意。 我补充一句，我在这行已经有一段时间了，可以说跟中集的老大呢已经打了三十几年了。它的规模是很大，可是我觉得现在有一个趋势呢，就是说客户呢他要求是你灵活跟你的可靠性。刚才我可能有提着我们现在有些一些我想like mind，就是志同道合的工厂来结合，所以我不需要在每个港口都有工厂，他们也不会说再来上海，再来厦门或者惠州来开工厂。那么就形成一个好像一个连锁店这样，也是一个诚信，就是说他知道我拿了单子，我交给他，他会交给我是吧。所以我觉得这种是比较轻资产方式，把这个我们的不是产能，而是我们的销售的这个能量扩大。那这个model我觉得是已经逐渐看到成效，这个是我们在去年五月份开始的，那么已经成效了。这个主要成效除了说大家的互信呢，还有就是我们盛世，尤其是肖总的团队呢，销售的能力。可以说以前我们一些客户，比如说Hapag-Lloyd，比如这些马士基呢，可能以前在我们这些小厂不会下单，也下给我们了。所以我觉得这个也是为什么我们可以平衡这个大规模生产商的这个竞争，他们的优势呢，就是他可能是per unit cost他会低，因为他规模大。我们的优势呢，其实同样的，反过来，在现在这个时候，大工厂会比较辛苦，是吧？所以这方面，小有小地做。那么还有我想的就是说我们这多元化经营，包括租赁。因为肖总前任的工作呢，他是一个租赁的专家，是吗？所以通过我们把很多以前不可能做租赁客人拉了进来，那么就是发展新能源。 Quick question. Two questions regarding EF-ESS. Yes。 TSMC has use your ESS right? This is wonderful. Sorry to ask you very basic question. ESS is normal technology, why it should be containered? It should in the container, right? ESS itself is very normal technology. Yeah。 Many factory has this. It's containered, then it's used by TSMC, right? Mm-hmm. Any reason why? Well, I hope, I wish my Taiwan sales guy is here. I think one is because of mobility. Okay。 It very easily can move. I see. Right? Also I think because of the container, it actually give a certain protection. Mm-hmm. It's very fast. Mm-hmm. You can just pull it to the job site. You need three or four you put together. I see. Versus, building a Building one by one. Warehouse or whatever. Ah. If the job is over, you can just pull it away. Ah. That's why we also have a container where, for the solar energy. Okay. When energy is actually collected, it goes into the container, and it's stored during the daylight, and it release during the night time. Mm-hmm. Of course it's getting more and more sophisticated. Right。 Right? In terms of withstanding very harsh environment. Mm-hmm. We have supplied ESS container actually in Tibet or in Xinjiang. Mm-hmm. That can withstand the high altitude, and also the. Mm-hmm. Temperature. What the ESS is most concerned is fire. Mm-hmm. Right. I think having a very robust and well, actually our is two layer with thermal insulation, actually, provide a solution. I see. Because, we have our factory, we can manufacture in large quantity. Mm-hmm. Easily transportable. I see. Easily transported, especially on ships. Wonderful。 Yeah。 Very quick second question. Industry. Do you have any target industry to sell more your container ESS? Well, we sell to everyone, I think we also want to see, the other party, are they a long term player? Right? I would say that, as Winnie say, once they lock in with you, it's not so easy to change. It's not like buying a container. Mm-hmm. Right? Container for $5, customer will change. Right? It's not rocket science. You are right, ESS is not a rocket science. If you can manufacture 1 container versus 1,000 ESS containers with same quality and consistency, I think that's where the production discipline come in. We are very happy that, you know, we have some customer that, you know, could just want to place more order with us, but is actually in fact, in my presentation, I did say that I want to expand the customized container facilities. Yeah. I think to answer your question, we also want to see who is the customer. Most important, we must be able to provide a solution for them. That's why Winnie say that to get a customer in ESS take a longer time. Mm-hmm. It's a mutual trust. Once they are with you, they don't change so easily. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. There's one more question here。在这边还有，在这儿。冷静，冷静。要比这一只。来。 林董事长，我还有两个问题啊。 可以，可以。 好，第一个是，就是关于您那个本身原来就是传统的那个集装箱业务啊。然后像刚才您说就是73%的那个产能利用率，是指的是24年，就是目前公司这个产能利用率是达到73%吗？ 不是说73%。The revenue的portion。对，那个是占比。 Oh, the revenue portion, OK. 去年我们是达到95%。 哦，95%。那我想问一下，就是像公司在自己的这几个已有的这些港口里面，是否会具备比如说区域性的这种规模优势，或者还是说是因为中集集团它做的这个单成本都会比您低嘛。但假如说您在区域性的这些港口，跟这些合作伙伴您的份额是比较大的，也是比较——会不会有这样的一些优势啊？ 两个区域我们... 跟合作伙伴，还有我们自己的生产基地是有优势的。一个就是华东地区，华东地区整个长江流域，直到芜湖，这一个我们有一个合作伙伴，他在扬州的。所以从上海一直到南京、张家港，一直到那个扬州、芜湖，我们都有一个非常好的合作伙伴，可以cover这一带暂时没有很多工厂的。那对全公司来说就省了很多运输费了。一个箱子从上海送到南京的话，接近要$200的运输费。所以我们箱子在长江流域生产，客户就可以直接提箱。另外一个，我们是Xiamen number one，我们非常自豪。厦门所有的业务几乎都是跟新胜狮的。 哦，都是，那这个—— 我们是厦门number one。 那厦门 number one 这个份额，大概比如说在这个区域市场您有多少？ 整个福建省，我们跟中集两家，我们应该占到70%。 两家占到70%。 他占了30%。 明白，明白。 漳州嘛，中集漳州它有做定制箱，也有做那个标箱，但是厦门，我们这个地点是占比最大的。 明白，明白。我有两个问题想请教一下，就是第一呢，就是我们做这个leasing这个业务，其实有一个初衷，就是说在市况它有波动的时候可以平滑嘛。那如果明年的话，那个整个全球对集装箱这边的需求如果有一个比较大幅的下降，那我们这边产出的这个箱子，有一部分就是没有place出去，就会比较自然地流到那个leasing，就是等于到我们的leasing company，然后我们的leasing company的话，是有办法可以把这些箱子就是在像明年的这个市况都place出去吗？ 我们现在所有做的是长期合约。 Mm-hmm. 好，然后我们选的客人呢，都是每年买很多船的客人。 Mm-hmm. 所以暂时未来五年已经on hand的箱子，他不会退出。 Mm-hmm. 所以你刚才说的经营性风险，像你回来的很多cost啊，在我们现在这个阶段呢，不会。 Mm-hmm. 那第二呢，我回应一下你的一个问题啊，做租箱除了工作薪资整个结构跟resilient以外呢，在我们的Chairman的要求以下，新胜狮呢，我们想做一些更能提供全球服务的一个产品。如果你看全球的所有租箱公司，无论在什么时候都在赚钱。那个你看，因为很多都是美国上市公司嘛，好，所以在这个产业，无论在它周期，还有我跟钟总也分析过，就是它其实储积的箱子的价钱也是非常好的。如果你有机会，你可以了解一下，现在一个二手箱，用了十四年，在中国卖出去，还可以卖到USD $2,200啊，新箱才三千出头。所以这个你说这一个，because container is a very commoditized product, right？木地板是越来越欠缺的一个材料，钢材is very commoditized，然后集装箱is very liquid，你放集装箱到哪个国家都变成它的local currency。然后这个asset也可以做financing。所以整体来说，胜狮自己又有基金，也有集装箱工厂，在研发方面也比其他租箱公司优胜。我们有新加坡背景的股东，有香港上市的这个平台，融资也没有问题。所以我觉得租箱这个业务对新胜狮来说应该是一个很能体现它现有的这个基本能力，还有这个业务拓展能力的一个low hanging fruit的一个范围。 明白，明白，谢谢维尼总。然后我第二个问题是关于我们的派息，就是去年——2023年，2023年我们有那个special dividend嘛，然后其实就是除掉special dividend，再往前的话，基本上我们每年的payout ratio大概就是在30%到60%，一般就是在这个区间。然后我看去年的话，我们其实是把这个，虽然没有special dividend，但是把这个payout提到了百分之七十五，我想问一下背后的原因。另外就是，能不能再往前的话，给我们一个相对比较清晰的guide，谢谢。 Okay. 派息的问题，我们集团的派息policy一般是30%到50%。以前你也要看到我们都是在大概派30%。然后也派了几期特别股息，special dividend。之后因为这两年虽然说甚至不是说赚很多钱，但是因为cash flow比较稳定，所以我们觉得，董事会觉得可以多派一点。所以去年其实把那个special dividend拿开之后，其实我们也有75%的派息利率。2020年是72%左右。往后当然我们还要看之后我们的CapEx requirement，还有那个cash flow。当然如果是能力可以的话，我们还是希望可以多派一点的。 Okay. Actually, he asked part of my questions. Okay, no worry. I also want to know, in the foresee future 1-2 years, what item are your like maybe, more significant, CapEx in the foresee maybe in a few years time? Leasing, of course, leasing portion is one of the major CapEx for us, because it can have a sustainable revenue generator. We will reserve part of our cash flow into the leasing portion. Of course, we will also raise funding for this business to expand this further. Other CapEx, major CapEx is to build our new energy facilities in our factories, because this is also our growth-driven areas. Like in terms of the CapEx, what is the range that you are talking about? Our projected CapEx for 2023, 2025 is up more than $100 million. Of course, I have said to you very actually occasion is that, if we have a good project, if any time, this is the best time to invest. I believe that the environment is conducive, and we are being encouraged. We are very careful, as I also say in my statement that we are very careful with the CapEx. When we have a new project, right, actually a viable project, if anything, this is actually the best time to invest. Okay. That's okay. Very technical. Two questions. Simple, one simple one. Tax. Have you slightly over-provided for this year? There's quite a lot of provision this year. Deferred tax is higher than normal. Why is that? That's the first question. The tax rate? The tax- Yeah provision for tax- Seems quite high. ...is very high. Your deferred tax also quite high. Tax provision, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. The effective tax rate for the PRC company, the tax rate is 25%. Yeah. We also need to provide 5% withholding tax for the dividend paid out. For the normal tax rate, it should be around 30%. Our subsidiary is a so-called high-tech company, so it enjoys 10% lever on the tax rate. Because one of our operations, the tank operation, everybody knows, because it's in difficulty, so it incurred a loss, it is in loss position. Then the effective tax rate will be a bit higher this year. Oh, I see. Mm-hmm. Okay. Hopefully this is the last question. Yes? No, I hope we have a question. Yes, second question. Oh, this one I hoped to be last actually. Anyway, you can answer in any language. Any guidance for next year? I cannot say. Guidance. I think market is very difficult. As a gentleman say, you know, he said 10 years of hardship, and that really threw me off my chair. I think we should still be profitable. Right. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I think that's why I say that, in a way, we don't have too much a burden. We are very light, and with a strong balance sheet, you know, it afford us to try to lower our overhead cost despite our lack of scale. Anyone? There's a question from our. Oh. Join us from Bill Sung of KVV Capital. He's asking about the inventories by year-end of $42 million compared to, went up about $42 million compared to 2023 year-end. He's asking is it due to increase in finished goods? Okay. The increase in inventories were mainly came from the finished goods. Because by the year-end, we have few firm order for the leasing deal. We deliver those boxes to customer after year-end. It put it's sitting on our finished goods by the year-end. Mm-hmm. Okay. Any more questions? Okay. Anyway, thank you for attending and thank you for putting, you know, questions. I think compared to last year, we have more question this year. Interesting questions, right? I think it shows the interest in the company. It is a difficult industry. It's actually like boom and bust, right? As reported last year, almost 7.8 million almost 8 million container were manufactured, right? Unexpected. It shows that you can turn on the production very fast if you want, right? I give credit to my team is that they managed to, you know, to find the opportunity, and really when the market is too low, they do not grab cheap orders. I think for that, I think we are able to attain a good set of result. This year, as I answered this gentleman that we will still be profitable. As to how much more, we'll find out next year this time. I think, I think it's, if anything, I am actually very, I am very confident, right. The company can. Those of you who follow us for a long time know that our industry is either you starve or you overeat, right. I think with our leasing business and our new energy, I think that will see us through the difficult time a bit more with more confidence. Okay. [Foreign language]. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. you. Thank you, everyone. 谢谢。