Okay, probably we will start now. Daniel Phua, John. Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for attending 9 months, 2023 Lippo Karawaci Earnings Call presentation on Monday, 13th of October, 2023. Please welcome equity investors, bond investors, institutional and retail investors, regulators, and rating agency. We are delighted to announce our results today. For introductions, I am Randi Prathama, as Head of Investor Relations. With me today, Mr. John Riady, as Group CEO of Lippo Karawaci, and Mr. Daniel Phua, as Group CFO of Lippo Karawaci. Without further do, please, Pak Daniel, continue with the results presentation. F or the participants, you may input your questions into the Q&A box, and we will answer during the Q&A sessions. Thank you very much. Pak Daniel, let me start the slide. Hi. Good afternoon. Welcome, analysts and investors, to the call today. I will take you through our nine-month 2023 financial results, firstly, before opening the floor to more Q&A. FY 2023 so far has been a stable year for Lippo Karawaci. You see that the revenue has grown by 18% to IDR 12.4 trillion, and EBITDA has grown by 41% to IDR 3.089 trillion. As a result, mainly as you can see, of contributions from the healthcare segment of the business. Healthcare's EBITDA has grown by 29% compared to real estate, with a slight growth of 13%, and lifestyle relatively flat compared to the year before. If we were to look at the revenue down to NPAT, you will notice that revenue has grown by 18%, EBITDA by 41%, and NPAT, if we were to look at the underlying NPAT, actually grew by 106%. T his reflects a stable operational environment, whereby we were able to realize improved performance year-on-year. The NPAT, as I alluded to previously, we split it into the underlying NPAT and NPAT. The underlying NPAT basically excludes mainly the impact of the FX movements to get a better sense of the operational performance. As you can see, the underlying NPAT performance is a positive IDR 48 billion. The NPAT obviously is IDR 788 billion because of, one-off events, such as, the liability management exercise that was conducted earlier in the year. If we were to look at the breakdown... sorry, the previous slide, please. If we were to look at the breakdown, between the various segments, we will noted that, the healthcare EBITDA has grown from IDR 1.5 trillion in 9M 2022 to IDR 2.1 trillion. Similarly, we have seen a growth, in quarterly results from 681 to 830 as well. Real estate similarly, grew from 420 to 705, whereas the quarter-on-quarter results dropped slightly compared to the quarter before. As we all understand, the real estate's EBITDA is affected by the cyclical natures of the handover, so I would say that the nine-month result is probably more important as barometers of the company's performance. Lifestyle EBITDA has remained relatively flat compared to the year before. W hilst traffic in some of the first tier cities have recovered, we have found that the traffic in some of the 2nd tier cities and the smaller malls have struggled to perform, and therefore, relatively speaking, we find that the performance this year compared to last year is relatively flat. Looking at operating cash flow, I'm happy to report that we now have a positive operating cash flow of IDR 662 billion from our operating activities. A long with IDR 488 billion of investing cash flow, mainly as a result of investments into medical equipments and new hospitals from Siloam Hospitals. These two combined gives us a positive free cash flow, and which is very different from what it was the year before. A gain, I think this shows that the company is now in a state whereby it is able to generate stable FCF year-on-year to be able to finance future growth, albeit the dividends of the company going forward. Financing, as you can see, is a net negative, which means that we are, on a net basis, we have reduced our debt, which brings cash to IDR 2.3 trillion at the end of September 2023, compared to IDR 2.6 trillion at the beginning of the period. The debt profile remains healthy. You will see that, more than half our debt is denominated in the IDR as a result of the liability management exercise that was conducted at the start of the year. The, debt equity ratios have similarly has, seen a decrease, from 0.66 in 2022 down to 0.59 in nine months of 2023. You would recall we, have a strong, hedging positions on our bonds. In terms of both the 25 and 26 bonds, it is hedged 100%, whereas 100% of the 2026 interest is also hedged. Now I'll take you through some of the segmental performance, starting with real estate. In real estate, in regard property developments, in the month of 2023, we have achieved 68.5% of the FY 2023 marketing sales targets that we have announced. W e do believe that we will be on track to achieve the full year marketing sales forecast. This is supported by the launch of 59 residential projects, along with 1 low-rise, 1 mid-rise, 7 high-rise, and 17 shophouses projects. Some of the notable projects in Q3 2023 include Cendana Gard'n Serene, The Hive at Essence, and also at Lippo Cikarang, the Cendana Spark North, The Hive at Cosmo, and The Hive at Uptown. As you can see, these projects have been launched successfully with good take-up, and that helped the financial performance for real estate as well, driven by our timely handover to arrive at a result of IDR 3.3 trillion, driven by 18% year-on-year improvement. The key takeaways and going forward is that we would continue to focus on strategy, which is in delivering innovative products to the Indonesian community at a price point that will be affordable, but at the same time, afford chic and modern living at locations that are central. This is evidenced, for example, in the launch of the Park Serpong project on Saturday, which has been a successful launch, supported by a big, a good turnout in the launch event. The marketing sales momentum in the last three years provide a very strong foundations for our future growth going forward. As mentioned, our target of IDR 4.9 trillion marketing sales, we do believe will be achieved by the end of the year, supported by a number of successful launches, including the launch of Park Serpong during the weekend. The land bank in the Lippo Karawaci is also one of the strongest amongst peers, with over 1,000 hectares of land bank in Jakarta, Greater Jakarta, and the Makassar area, giving us 25+ years of remaining land bank to develop. In regard to the split in marketing sales, you will see that 80% of the amount still coming mainly from landed housing, in line with our objective to be able to help young homeowners to be able to own their own homes. T he remainder is made up of shophouses, mid-rise, and SOHO properties. The payment mode, as a result, you will see that it's mainly by mortgages, 68% by mortgages and 16% by cash and 16% by installments. Following are some highlights of properties that have been developed during the year, as I mentioned earlier, including the Cendana Garden and Cendana Spark, the Hive series. We have also handed over a significant number of units during 9 months 2023 as well, resulting in the increase in revenue and EBITDA in the real estate, as highlighted earlier. Some of the product focus, I'll probably let you go through and look through in further detail. I will not go through this in detail one by one. P erhaps I would end that and ask CEO John Riady to for any further comments in regard to the real estate segment. Thank you, Daniel, and good afternoon to all of you on this call. I think Daniel has highlighted a couple of important points. I generally share Daniel's views. I'll just add a couple of things, which is to say that I think overall, sales in the last quarter continue to be pretty much on plan. As I've consistently shared over the last couple of quarters, our strategy really is to continue to diversify our sales strategy and to come up with different products at different price points and different geographical areas, to be able to reach out to the different pockets of demand across the country. T hat has contributed to the steadily growing marketing sales that we've achieved over the last 6-8 quarters. Generally, that will continue to be our focus, and we'll continue to be disciplined and focused on the execution of that strategy. It looks like we're pretty much on track to deliver our full year numbers at this rate. At the same time, I think, we also all recognize the continued, I would say, subdued demand environment in Indonesia. You add on to this some additional uncertainties around increasingly, higher for longer interest rates, and what impact that might have on the demand environment. Over the next couple of quarters, we'll continue to monitor this very closely. My sense is the environment will be at best stable, stable to slightly lower, especially as we get closer and closer to election year. Elections next year, the first round in February, and it seems like a second one around May or June. T ypically, leading up to events like that, people tend to wait and see on larger ticket items. A ll these factors I think contribute to a more uncertain operating environment over the next three to Q4. A ll the more reason for us to stay focused and disciplined on the strategy. S o far, I think the results are reasonably, I'm reasonably pleased with the results, and we're pretty much on track to deliver our full year marketing sales guidance. Okay, thank you, John. Moving on to healthcare. Healthcare has successfully moved itself out of the shadow of COVID. As you can see, it has had 5 quarters of sustained quarter-on-quarter growth. The results come in at a revenue of IDR 6.37 trillion for year-to-date 2023, EBITDA of close to IDR 2 trillion, and a net profit of IDR 884 billion. You will see that the margins have similarly expanded over the period as well. The quarter-on-quarter growth between 2Q to 3Q is significant. EBITDA grew by 22%, net profit grew by 42%, supported by a growth of 12% in revenue. EBITDA margin, as you can see, is 30.6% in nine-month 2023 versus 25.9% in nine-month 2022. T his is basically a higher margins than what was being experienced during the COVID era as a result of successful executions of a number of efficiency programs in the Siloam. The reason that Siloam is able to drive is revenue growth is supported by industry-leading revenue intensity. This is driven by the Siloam 5.0 strategy of focusing on high complexity clinical programs. Siloam has a view to make sure that the Indonesians who require complex services can get these services in Indonesia, instead of having to travel to other countries such as Singapore and Malaysia. W e have continued even during the COVID time to invest in machines such as LINAC, the Gamma Knife machines, in order to ensure that Indonesians can get best healthcare services in Indonesia without having to travel abroad. As a result of this strategy, you will notice that our average revenue per bed and per patient days are significantly higher compared to the industry. T his is basically a direct reflections of the strategy that has been taken to focus on clinical complexity. Quarter-over-quarter, you will notice that the operational results have been stable as well. Inpatient admissions is up 12%, outpatient visits is up 15%, quarter-over-quarter. Occupancy rate sits at a very healthy 68.2%, with a very healthy average length of stay of around 3.1 days, and a conversion ratio from outpatients to IPD of around 3%. The improvement in margins for the healthcare business has been based on a number of strategies that management have taken in order to look at optimizing and improving the productivities of various cost items. For example, drugs and clinical supplies, as a percentage of revenue, have come down from 35.1% in 4Q2019, which was our last normal non-COVID quarter, down to 28.5% of revenue. Operating expenses, as you can see, similarly, has come down from 36.1% pre-COVID, down to 28.8% in Q3 2023. This has helped the EBITDA margin improve from 18.4% in pre-COVID up to 32.4% today, and the net profit margin of 16.1% versus 3.2% pre-COVID. We do believe that the journey is still long. We still believe that there are room for us to further improve the managements of drugs, supplies, and opexes. There has been various measures to consolidate volume, to look at reducing the SKUs that has been used for drugs and for consumables. W e do believe that there are still further room to improve going forward. The shift in payer group in healthcare has similarly helped in terms of the shift in margins. You will notice that the private or the non-BPJS segment now accounts for 82.2%. Of the revenue, as opposed to 81.5% in nine months of 2022. You will note that, the private OP corporate insurance business continued to grow quarter and quarter. In Q3 2023, it grew 13%, compared to the quarter before. As mentioned, the clinical complexities is supported by what we now call CONGO. Yeah, it stands for cardiac, oncology, neuro, gastro, and orthopedics. These are the five key areas whereby we do believe that, Indonesians are currently underserved in terms of, the complexity and the range of services that are available, and it represents areas that management have invested over the past. This graph basically gives you the sense that of these five key CONGO group, we have seen an increase, quarter-over-quarter in regard to both the throughput and also the average revenue. We are also excited to talk about a few hospitals that we're currently working on. There's an extension we're building at the Lippo Village Hospitals. We are working on an extension in the Makassar hospitals as well, along with the Bekasi hospitals. Our Surabaya hospitals has one of our flagship hospitals, but it is over 20 years old, so we do intend to build a brand-new hospital next to it with state-of-the-art facilities. In addition to physical infrastructures and hospitals, we have also continued to invest in digital channel. Patients booking through digital channel for outpatients now accounted for about 500,000 annually. P atients can now basically submit feedback through the Siloam platform that have been introduced. Currently, we track the complaints, and there is a KPI around that, and we currently have a target, and we do resolve 80% of our complaints within 24 hours. There's continued growth in the digital channels, such as WhatsApp, Live Chat, TeleChat, digital services, the ability to book appointment online, the ability to be able to deliver pharmaceutical drugs, through Grab or Gojek. These are all services that Siloam have invested in in order to make our patient experience more seamless. I n addition to extending the range and complexity of services we provide, we do want to make sure that we provide the best of class experience for patients coming through to Siloam. Moving on to lifestyle. The nine-month 2023 mall revenue has increased 12% year-on-year to IDR 410 billion. This is propelled obviously by better malls, foot traffic during Lebaran and during school holiday. We do see more visitors increasing by 9% year-on-year to 69%, compared to 63% the year before, demonstrating a steady recovery. At this stage, we do expect a full recovery to pre-pandemic traffic by 2024. This will be supported by the few asset enhancement initiative that has been conducted. For example, Gajah Mada Plaza, which will fully open with this new look in 4Q23. Hotel revenue have also improved by 23% year-on-year to IDR 317 billion. EBITDA grew by 28% year-on-year to IDR 119 billion. This again is supported by post-COVID recovery, various government and MICE events. Average room rate have improved 30% year-on-year, and occupancy has also improved by 4% year-on-year. We are proud to say that Aryaduta Hotels was awarded one of the top 10 brands in Asia by the Asia Business Outlook for 2022. There are certain pockets of activities that haven't fully recovered. For example, the Chinese tourists in Manado is still not what it was pre-pandemic, but we do see that with the continued opening up of economy and the greater travel opportunities being offered, we do see that trend improving next year going forward as well. As a result, you will see that nine-month 2023 result have generally improved. Most revenue have improved by 14%. EBITDA did decrease by 26%, as a result of a sudden change in the rental structures, which we do believe that in the long term will have more significant benefits. There were also certain one-off events that was booked in the 9 months of 2022, that once normalized, you will see the EBITDA is relatively flat compared to the year before. Hotel revenue and EBITDA have improved by 23 and 28% respectively, based on what I mentioned earlier in regard to continual post-COVID recovery. Traffic, but more visitors have improved by 11%, year-on-year, with a stable occupancy rate. Hotel occupancy rate is currently still about 7%, below the pre-COVID level, whereas the average room rate being charged, as you can see, are already surpassing the pre-COVID level and represent a 13% improvement year on year. Lippo Karawaci remains firmly committed to a sustainability strategy. We believe that in all our business segments, sustainability cannot be an afterthought. It has to be a key driver in all that we do. As a result, we have focused heavily in terms of management attention, in terms of reporting framework, in order to ensure that we are fully committed to deliver an integrated, sustainable business. We have set priorities in environmental area to look at decarbonization, to look at improving water circularity, improving waste recycling. We have implemented various social engagement framework and community health program. At a governance level, there has been significant improvement in the governance processes, in both internal financials governance and also climate risk governance and mandatory ESG training and integrations of ESG KPIs and monitoring throughout all our business reportings. The reporting standards and commitments that we have worked on are aligned with the GRI, TCFD standards, and so forth. We do want to make sure that the Lippo Karawaci is seen as a leader in pushing forward our ESG initiative. In regard to governance, we have set up an ESG committee along with the ESG steering group, and this group have the key functions of coordinating the ESG activities in all our business units. We are in the process of implementing automated solutions to improve the gathering of ESG data. We do have a vision of being able to enhance the quality of life, being able to care for our environment, invest in our people, and always championing the best, practices. We have set rigorous KPI for ourselves in regard to our sustainability agenda. Looking at, making sure that, we are able to deliver affordable housing, accessible healthcare, community engagements. How do we reduce water consumption, water treatment, waste disposal? Ensuring continual focus on health and safety, training, development, along with championing best practice in business ethics and compliance. As you can see from this dashboard here, we have set rigorous target, and in most instances, we have either achieved or outperformed the targets that we have set for ourselves. Internally, there are rigorous framework that have been set up to monitor the achievement of these targets and to take appropriate corrective actions when we notice certain targets are not being achieved. Some of the sustainability highlights, again, I will not read this one by one, but we are proud of some of the achievement that was possible through what has been launched. E specially, the social engagement framework of PASTI in regard to education, environment, social, health, and economic. Siloam, for example, have various Siloam events focusing on promoting the awareness of cancer and breast cancer. That's culminated in the Run for Hope event, MRCCC, that was attended by over 3,000 attendees. It helped to also provide, for example, free mammography to underprivileged groups in order to ensure that all have access to quality healthcare and early cancer treatment and detections. We are proud to announce also that two of our biggest malls, Sun Plaza Medan and the Lippo Mall Puri, has been awarded the much coveted EDGE Green Building certifications. The EDGE Green Building certifications does go through a robust number of metrics and assessments. It's not an easy certification to get, and we are very proud of the two malls' achievements. We are also focusing these efforts on other malls as well in order to looking at achieving similar certifications. As a final slide, looking forward, as John has highlighted earlier, there are certainly various economic uncertainty in regard to the macroeconomic environment. With U.S. interest rate, with the war in Ukraine and the potentially Middle East, and with the real estate, with the elections over the next years, and inflation and interest environments, we remain cautiously optimistic. At the moment, we do still see a strong domestic demand for owner-occupied housing, and it is a segment that we continue to excel in. We are excited by the launch of our Park Serpong projects that were well attended last weekend. We will continue, as John mentioned, to look at varied products at different price points to be able to appeal to the consumers' need and demand going forward. Healthcare, we believe, will remain a cornerstone of Lippo Karawaci business going forward. Post-COVID, we do believe that there is a greater awareness in the need for quality healthcare, and we have seen an increased demand for even the basic services like the medical checkup and so forth. M ore importantly, we do see that by being able to focus on high complexity clinical programs, we're able to attract a lot of patients that otherwise would have gone overseas for their medical treatment. T his allows us to establish a long-term relationship with our patients as we progress and build a partnership with them to improve their healthcare. The lifestyle businesses have continued its recovery. We see that quarter-on-quarter but results have improved as a result of post-COVID recovery. There are certain pockets, whereby, performances is still below pre-COVID level. B y and large, as I mentioned, in top-tier cities, both our hotels and the malls are performing above the pre-COVID level. W e do believe that the domestic demand remain key to drive occupations. We have seen some downsizing of key tenants, but which would affect the performance for malls, but this basically propels the malls to invest and focus more on the boutique and smaller tenants, which actually has a better average revenue rate compared to the anchor tenants. T hat's all from me in regard to the financial performance for nine months of 2023. I'll maybe pass the time to, John, for any closing remarks before I open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, Daniel. I think let's jump right into the Q&A. Okay. Yes, sure, bud. Happy to take a couple of the questions here on the chat box. Randi, quick question. Is everyone able to see these questions? No, no. You need to read it again, bud. Okay, I'll sort of repeat some of the questions. The first bucket of questions that I'll respond to is with regard to our bonds. There seems to be two or three questions here on LPKR and the LMIRT bonds. We have no plans to refinance our LPKR bonds. I hope that answers the questions related to the LPKR bonds. All the exercises we've done earlier this year have been completed. A t the moment, there are no further plans related to the LPKR bonds. With regard to the LMIRT bonds, this is an issue that we have been following closely over the last couple of quarters. As you may have seen, I believe in the middle of October, October 16, LMIRT announced that it had successfully refinanced approximately SGD 245 million of its bank loans. Of the 245, LMIRT paid off about, I think about SGD 50 million, and the remainder was refinanced. I'm pleased to share that all the bank loans that were coming due over the next, I think, couple of months, up until the beginning of next year, have been successfully refinanced by LMIRT. With regard to LMIRT's 2024 and 2026 bonds, as all of you know, we have continued to lend our full support to LMIRT in its refinancing efforts. Up until today, unfortunately, we have not been able to secure any lines to refinance these bonds. I think a lot of the banks are still watching the gradual improvement in LMIRT's traffic and financials. Also at the same time, the more recent developments around real estate in China, and the broader concerns around commercial real estate globally, and also what impact higher interest rates will have on commercial real estate. All these different factors is weighing upon the market, and it has proven a little bit more challenging to secure this. U p until today, that is the progress. We continue to work on it and work closely with LMIRT. We continue to be optimistic that we'll be able to find a solution. I did want to share with all of you the most recent update on this process. T hose are the questions... Those are my responses on the bonds. There's one question from Abraham Iyer. Book value of LMIRT is stated at $1.2 billion. Is there potential write down? Not at the moment, not that I'm aware of, but I think this is a question that's more appropriately addressed to LMIRT's management. With banks supporting LMIRT, how is LPKR thinking about supporting the REIT moving forward? I've shared with you how Lippo Karawaci is supporting the REIT with regard to its refinancing efforts. Beyond the refinancing efforts, Lippo Karawaci, obviously, as a sponsor of the REIT, continues to see a lot of growth opportunities for LMIRT in Indonesia in the medium term. A s soon as we're able to move beyond the short-term refinancing issues of LMIRT, and also the market gains more clarity on the revival of its business post-COVID, we're quite excited about all the different growth opportunities that LMIRT will have in Indonesia, and not only in the retail mall area, but also more broadly in the Indonesian commercial real estate opportunities beyond just retail malls. I think all these things are probably better discussed once the overhang around the refinancing efforts and hopefully can be resolved. There's a question about Siloam. Given that Silo is a growth engine for, of LPKR, how does management think about acquiring a greater stake in Siloam? This is something that management continues to evaluate. As some of you may know, over the last 2 years, we have consistently increased our ownership in Siloam. I think we started off at about 50 or 50... Just over 50%, 50.2% or so. Today, we're about 58%. I think, our decision over the last 2 years to increase our stake in Siloam has been, a good decision. At the moment, we continue to evaluate, whether, it makes sense for us to continue to increase our stake. W e'll continue to report and, share with you, should there be any movements, in our ownership in Siloam. We have a question. Yeah, I think there's a good question on the VAT reduction. Two weeks ago, the government announced an incentive program where houses, landed houses that are below IDR 2 billion, will receive a 100% discount in VAT up until, I believe, May of next year. T hen following that, it's for a time period, it's gonna reduce to about 50% discount on the VAT. I think we'll certainly benefit from this VAT reduction. This is a similar program to what the government had announced in the middle of COVID. At that time, the threshold was at IDR 5 billion. The program that they announced last week was at IDR 2 billion. Y es, I think Lippo Karawaci will benefit from it, because as you can see, the vast majority of our home sales, our landed home sales, is below IDR 2 billion. I think it sort of hits the sweet spot of where we are. Having said that, we are still waiting for the details on the regulation. T o the extent that this incentive is implemented in the same way that the previous incentive plan was implemented, I think the benefit will be rather limited because it will only apply to homes that are handed over within this time period. I t doesn't apply to any newly launched homes or houses. W e'll see, we'll study the details once the implementing regulations are out. T hat's what I think will happen. Main reason for property sales sequential decline in 3Q. I believe you may be referring to revenues here. Daniel, would that be consistent? Well, I think either from the revenue or marketing sales perspective, I think it's important to understand that, again, the launch timing and handover timings are is gonna be different from quarters to quarters. Y ou always see different movement from quarter to quarters. I think that's probably the main answer for that. T he question is about the cash flow at the whole core level. We are currently sitting above one trillion, and we do... Based on our forecast, I don't think this was changed significantly by the end of the year, so it will be above IDR 1 trillion. I just add to Daniel, like I said, we are on track to deliver our full year marketing sales guidance. There has been a lot of variability from Q1 to another, but I think that's just the nature of the business and when we actually do launches, causing sort of a bumps throughout the year. I don't see anything particularly significant or material there. What would be your following? What would be your capital structure plans? I think that's what you mean, Joyce Tong. E.g., turn to domestic bank loan or bond market rather than USD. Yeah, I think we continue to be very practical and commercial about this. In the past, we've been heavily reliant on the bond market. Today, or in the last couple of years, the domestic banking market has changed a lot. A s you've seen in the last 12 months, we've been able to capitalize on that and convert about half of our bonds. What was previously our U.S. dollar bonds have been converted into rupiah. Lower interest rate, no forex mismatch, no withholding tax, no hedging. So certainly whenever there are opportunities to do that, we would love to do that. Having said that, at the moment, the market's been challenging for the reasons that I've shared, in this call previously. Y es, I think all else equal, if we're able to be financed with all rupiah-denominated debt, that would be our preference. Would LPKR support an equity raise at LMIRT? Yes, we would be open to that. As you've seen in the history of LMIRT, we've continued to be supportive whenever there's an equity raise. S o we don't see. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be going forward, especially where LMIRT is trading at today. There's a question about LMIRT's collateral package. I would, I think, talk to LMIRT about this. I believe they'd be able to share the info on this. Why is there no refinancing plans on Lippo Karawaci 2025s? As I've mentioned before, I think the market is, at the moment, pretty challenging. So the market's just not open for that. I think that's it. Share-based lending on Siloam. I don't understand what that question is. No Siloam shares are pledged. Any margin call for currency hedge? No. We're in the money on our hedges. We're hedged all the way till 17,500. We're fully covered on all our USD bonds. I think refer to some of the earlier slides in Daniel's presentation. How are domestic banks thinking about extending secured loans against real estate? I think that's case by case. It's case by case on that. There are a couple of hands that are raised. Yes, I think we can open for Robin Sutanto. Please, Vivian, try help to- Yeah, let's take the 4 questions, Randi, on the raised hands, and then maybe we can close. Yes, yes. Let's allow maybe Robin first. A moment, Eba. We are allowing Robin to talk. Sure. Robin, please go ahead, Robin. Hi, John. Hi, John, Daniel, Randi. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. T hank you for the updates. Just a quick one from me. Park Serpong was launched yesterday. Do we have the numbers yet in regards to the number of units offered, the number of units sold, and the total number of proceeds from that first launch? Yeah. Basically subsequent to that, is there a next phase plan for that? W hen the next phase happens, will it be a different ASPs? I'll perhaps stop here first. Thank you, Robin. Yes, as Daniel has alluded to, we did do the launch of Park Serpong on Saturday and Sunday, so this past weekend. We are still consolidating the numbers, but generally, it was a successful launch, and we are pleased with the results. In the next earnings call, when we cover the Q4 results, we'll share a little bit more detail on the results of the launch. J ust to give you a little bit of flavor, Park Serpong is located about approximately 3-4 kilometers south of Karawaci, along the main provincial road, provincial Legok Road, and it is right adjacent to a number of other very mature developments, including Gading Serpong, BSD, Paramount, and et c. Our strategy really was to introduce to the market a price point that is generally not available in the other developers. Having said that, the unit sizes are smaller, and so from a unit economics point of view, it's reasonably attractive for Karawaci. I think that was the right strategy. I think we hit the right price points, allowing us to gain the right momentum that we need as we open up this new 400-hectare development. yes, I think in the coming quarters, we do have planned further launches at prices that will be gradually increasing over time. So the ASPs will continue to be higher and higher for the same products, and we'll also be launching new products that are larger and at higher price points as well. So generally, good progress there, but I think it's a little too early to say. I wanna let the numbers settle down. As when you have a big launch like that, you've got buyers on, 0% down payment, things like that. I wanna see the numbers consolidate, and to see, what the real numbers are before sharing further information to all of you. Thanks, Robin. Sorry. Thanks, John. Can I follow up with that? Basically, for this first phase, is there a maximum number of units that, Lippo Karawaci is prepared to offer? I understand the numbers, the demand side is still progressing, but what about the supply side? T he good thing is, in a place like Serpong, which I would say that today in the entire Indonesia, the hottest demand market is Serpong. T hat's the demand pool feeling, BSD, Gading Serpong, Paramount, and to some lesser extent, Alam Sutera and all these. This is all the Serpong market. I t's a very strong demand pool. The way I look at it is, as we're opening up this new township, we need to have some critical mass of homes. W e're looking at selling a couple of thousand homes, in this first phase, and then gradually, we'll be lifting up the prices, as time goes. W e'll share more info, Robin, once we have a little bit more clarity around the actual numbers and results of the launch. Okay. Thank you, John. I'll jump back in the queue. Thank you. Yep. Thanks, Robin. Maybe next is for Vikas. Vikas, please. Hi. Hi, Randi, can you hear me? Yes, yes, please, Vikas. Yes. Hi, Randi. Hi, John, Daniel. Thanks for all the updates. A couple of questions from my side. One is you talked about the overall outlook slightly challenging, while at the same time you are saying that you are confident of achieving the full year marketing sales, which would imply about IDR 1.5 trillion of marketing sales in Q4. So if you can walk us through, what are the major pockets that you expect the contribution for, for the marketing sales? T hat's one question. T he second question, John, is on refinancing. I a ppreciate what you've just mentioned about refinancing with bonds, but given that the Jan 2025s will be within the one year of maturity in two months' time, I'm sure there would be rating agencies looking for plan and potential actions in case, that's not in place. H ow are you looking to address that? Like I said, Vikas, I'll, I'll answer your second question first and then, and then your first question. W e'd love to be able to refinance. I think the market's just not there yet at the moment. We continue to monitor the market. We continue to do what we can. I think the rating agencies, will have to do what they have to do. W e'll focus on hopefully getting something in place, and we'll continue to keep you posted on any developments on that front. With regard to marketing sales, you're right, I think it's approximately 1.5 till the end of the year. The breakdown of that 1.5 will generally mirror the breakdown of our marketing sales over the last Q3, where approximately 60-70% of that sales will be contributed by landed housing products, approximately 20% by industrial land sales, and then the remainder by various high-rise and commercial products. N o surprises on that front. Let's take the last question, Randi, from Jason. Sure. Jason? Jason, please. Hi, Jason. Oh, okay. Robin, do you have any more questions? No, I think, I think that's all, John, for today. All the question has been answered. I think... Do you have any maybe some closing remarks, John, before I close? No, I think I appreciate everyone dialing in. I think all the main issues and questions have been asked. We'll continue to keep you all posted, and if you're in town, let us know. Happy to take you around and also take a look at Park Serpong. I know there were a couple of questions around that on the chat box as well. Thank you very much. Wish you all a good day. Thank you very much, all. This is the end of the session. Goodbye, everyone. Bye-bye. Thank you. Take care.