Good morning, everyone. Please welcome equity investors, bond investors, regulators and credit rating agencies to PT Lippo Karawaci Tbk's Q1 2024 earnings call. Today's moderator, I'm Randi, as the head of IR. With me today, we have Mr. John Riady as the Group CEO, and we have now Mr. Marlo Budiman as Group Deputy CEO, and also Mr. Daniel Phua as Group CFO. Today, we will present our Q1 2024 results, followed by the Q&A. During presentations, you may drop your questions on the chat box. Without further ado, please, Daniel Phua, to continue with the presentations. Thank you. Thank you, Randi. I will take you through our 1Q 2024, the financial results and operational results. Welcome everyone, everybody. I'm very excited to be here again, to be able to present to you our performances for the H1, Q1 of the year. As you can see, the result has already been presented. We have had a very strong start, to the year, so I think it is a very good start. All in all, underlying NPAT improved by 133% to close at IDR 200 billion. This is a record for us, and it shows a consistent pattern of quarter-on-quarter improvement, started from the 2Q last year. From this, we also see the revenue grew by 21% to close at IDR 4.61 trillion. Underlying EBITDA, you will see me referring to this word, underlying EBITDA, quite a few times during these presentations. The key differences in the underlying EBITDA here is that it excludes the one-off write-down that was performed by Siloam of about IDR 309 billion. Again, I will cover that further, but I think in all operational results, it's important to refer to the underlying EBITDA, which basically excludes the effect of the one-off write-down, because that reflects the operational results. Now, if we were to look at the underlying EBITDA, it grew 35% year-on-year to close at IDR 1.19 trillion. If we were to look at all the segments, you will notice that basically all the segments have performed well during the Q1 as well. Starting with real estate, the real estate revenue was IDR 1.3 trillion. I mean, this is a 50% year-on-year increase. Basically, with the EBITDA booked at IDR 390 billion, a 96% year-on-year improvement. This is anchored by a very strong marketing sales. We've had a strong launch, as you would note, I've mentioned before in regards to Park Serpong, towards the end of 2023. That was supported by actually just recently, as recent as last weekend, whereby we launched the phase II of Park Serpong, which again had record turnout and was a very successful event as well. Real estate has had a strong start to the year. We believe that will continue to anchor our performance for the rest of the year as we continue to focus on the affordable housing of first home buyers. Healthcare, again, coming back, has sustained its improvement post-COVID. You will see that the underlying EBITDA and underlying NPAT will look at IDR 3 trillion and IDR 786 billion, respectively, a 14% and 17% improvement, respectively. So this is basically in line with Siloam strategy to continue to enhance on its revenue intensity and to continue to expand bed, and you see that supported by improved throughput as well. One of the background I do have to mention, as I mentioned, that Siloam did do a one-off. Again, I need to stress this is non-cash. This is related to historical assets that were pre-2019. I will cover this in a bit more detail when I go to detail healthcare slides. There's a one-off write-down that took the NPAT down to net negative as a whole. If you would exclude the one-off write-down from Siloam, in fact, the NPAT for the group as a whole would have been a + IDR 130 billion. Lifestyles personally have performed well. All in all, the revenue is at IDR 285 billion. But revenue from malls is at IDR 141 billion, with revenue from hotel at IDR 106 billion. Footfall and traffic and occupancy have generally remained stable and show steady improvement, along with hotels' occupancies and average room rate. Now, going to financials, if we were to look at the 1Q 2023- 1Q 2024 bridge, real estate has improved by some contributed 11% improvement in revenue, with healthcare contributing a 10% improvement. Now, the EBITDA margins, underlying EBITDA margins, if you like, have improved as well, which means that on top of a kind of a 10%-11% improvement in revenue, you see that the EBITDA actually improved by 22% and 30%, 13%, respectively, for real estate and for healthcare. Other segment lifestyles remain relatively more flat, along with obviously Holdco expenses, to allow us to close at the revenue of IDR 4.6 trillion and an EBITDA of IDR 1.187 trillion, for a 1Q of 2024. The improvement, again, as you can see, in revenue, if you were to look at it from a CAGR perspective, show an 18% CAGR from 1Q 2022 up to 2024. Underlying EBITDA showing a 40% CAGR, GP at 18%, and NPAT, obviously, is a lot more significant as well. And I think this CAGR's improvement is important because it shows a consistent trend in regard to year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter improvement in regard to the LPKR performances. Now, if we were to break down the, again, underlying EBITDA down to underlying NPAT, as I've highlighted earlier, IDR 200 billion of underlying NPAT, this is a significant improvement, about over 100%, almost more than double. ... Our performances in 1Q 2023. Some of the non-operational matters, I will highlight them. The first one is obviously there was a fair value adjustment, again, in the mixed investment properties. Cibubur Junction had the BOT renewed, and the valuations was adjusted as a result. So this is a kind of a non-operational matters, along with, as I mentioned, the impairment of Siloam's historical assets, the PSAK adjustment, and the Forex obviously had a negative impact as well due to the adverse move. Apologies, just been a power outage in my area. I'll have to continue via my phone. Randi, can I ask you to share the deck? Power just suddenly went out. One moment. We open the deck. My apologies. Okay. Okay, keep going. Yeah. Keep going. This slide or next? Yeah, keep going. Next, next. Hold on. All right, next. Thanks a lot. Keep going. All right, stop it. Yeah. So as, as a whole, you will see that the NPAT is at -IDR 179 billion. If we did not have the adjustment from Siloam, that would have been IDR 130 billion. Again, that is actually quite a strong NPAT result. That again affirms the positive performances from the group. Let me now go into the individual performances in a bit more detail. And next, please, Randi. So since Q4 of last year, we have performed this breakdown to break down the Holdco performances as opposed to the real estate performances, so that you can have a better way of gauging how the real estate is performing as compared to other businesses as well. And I think we are very happy to report, if you were to look at for example, both the Underlying and underlying EBITDA, underlying EBITDA, underlying NPAT, those have basically more than doubled for the real estate to close at the underlying EBITDA of IDR 390 billion, and the Underlying NPAT of IDR 368 billion for the real estate. As you can see from this, this actually tracked very closely to the hospital's performances as well, especially on the underlying NPAT level, due to the fact that the real estate obviously has a lot less depreciations from its investments compared to hospital. Holdco obviously remains stable. The Holdco expenses, as most of you would know, basically consists mainly of the interest expenses and rental payment for Siloam's properties. And next, please, Randi. Due to the strong performances, we are happy to say that the cash flow has been very strong as well. But as you can see, the operating cash flow currently sits at IDR 1 trillion compared to IDR 154 billion the year before. Investing cash flow, again, will be mainly coming out from, Siloam's continued investments in its CapEx and, in its, hospitals. Financings, we were able to pay down the net of some of our syndicated loan as a result of the improved cash flow. Again, that is, supported by the strong performances, from the businesses. Liability management, I won't spend too much time in here. I mean, most of you already understand, the fact that, we had a liability management exercise last year. But I think what is important to remind again, the investors, is that, the principals of our bonds, are fully hedged. And, that was very important, I think, especially in these junctures whereby, the IDR is, depreciating against the USD. I think it's important, from our perspective, that, we do have, that safeguard, in regard to, the, the hedging that, we have, got. Next, and yeah, keep moving, I think we've covered the hedging. All right, now I want to cover some of the, segments, is in a bit more details, segment by segment. The first is in regard to real estate. Our real estate, coming back, we did- the results not reflected in the 1Q 2024 results, because we just had a recent launch last weekend, so this will be in the 2Q. But we did have a very successful, launch of, Park Serpong phase II. In addition to that, as you can see in 1Q 2024, we basically saw 48 landed projects along with a few other mid and high-rises. Marketing sales performances in 1Q 2024, we were able to achieve IDR 1.5 trillion. This is basically 28% of our FY 2024 sales target. Obviously, landed and affordable housing continue to be a main focus. The kind of projects that we were launching in 2024, you will see that continue to be the innovative XYZ series that we have mentioned previously. So those continue to anchor our performances for 1Q 2024, and you'll probably see a lot of that coming in for 2Q 2024 as well. In regard to some of the key takeaways, we do believe that the especially the XYZ series, for example, would have a lot of there's been a lot of interest from the market, so we intend to launch similar projects in both our GMTD in the Makassar and also LC in Cikarang. This one again is the same. I won't spend too much time. There's over 1,000 hectares of land bank, so we do have another 25+ years of productive land that we can sell. Next. In terms of the marketing sales volume, as alluded to before, most of the portion is in the landed housing and the volume, it makes up about 80% of the landed housing, the volume. The payment mode continued to be anchored by the mortgages. You will see that currently 78% of the payments are through mortgages with residential homes dominating as usual, making up over 73% of the products sold in 2024. So here's an illustration of some of the projects that have been successfully handed over. The improved revenue and EBITDA obviously also reflects the fact that properties have been handed over on a timely basis. And again, these are just some units for your reference. We'll move on. Lippo Cikarang has launched the Lippo Cikarang Cosmopolis. As mentioned, some of the key units that is being launched in the Cosmopolis includes XYZ Livin, which have had a very successful launch in Park Serpong, and we continue to bring the same concept over to Lippo Cikarang. Park Serpong, as you I've highlighted in previous quarters, had a very successful turnout, and this is supported by the launch pre, in the previous weekend, whereby we had a close to 81% take up as well from the people who attended. The feedback we have received have been positive, and I think you will see that the retail pricing has been kind of moving up as well, as a result of improved interest from the public in regard to the Park Serpong, both in regard to the areas and also the sort of units that we are launching in Park Serpong. Next. Some of this I have covered previously. I probably won't spend too much time on in regard to Park Serpong. Skip there. All right, XYZ series, as I mentioned, these are the innovative products that we are launching in the Park Serpong area. I also want to explain about the Q series that we have been launched in the last weekend. The Q series, the key differences is that it is centered by a courtyard, and we do believe that it brings, more vibrancy and more light and more sense of space, to the houses that we're selling. Again, the Q series, is, another examples of, Lippo Cikarang, where we continue to look for innovative products, that is unique, to the market. And again, similar to the XYZ series, we have seen a very strong response, from the market as well. All right, keep going. All right, next, I want to move into healthcare. Healthcare's performances had continued is a strong quarter-on-quarter, year-on-year improvement as well. As you can see, revenue is booked at IDR 2.34 trillion, a 14.4% improvement, compared to, last year. Underlying EBITDA, again, I stress this is basically the operational EBITDA without including the one-off adjustment, is IDR 760 billion. This is a 17.2% improvement upon last year. EBITDA margin has similarly improved from 29.5% in 1Q 2023 to 30.2% in 1Q 2024. Our underlying net profit is a very strong IDR 334 billion. This is a almost 30% improvement compared to the year before with NPAT margins that is strong at 14.3%. Again, as you can see, the CAGR growth is stable as well, quarter-on-quarter. But revenue saw a 3.7% Q-on-Q CAGR, with underlying EBITDA growing 7.1% quarter- on- quarter, and net profit growing 16% quarter- on- quarter. You will note that the full Q2 2023- Q1 2024 underlying EBITDA fell slightly. I think that is more due to a one-off insurance payment that we received in 4Q 2023 of about IDR 33 billion. If you were to exclude that, you would see that, in fact, the underlying EBITDA and underlying NPAT for that matter, I mean, both improved compared to the year before. Sorry, Randi? Okay. So next, I want to talk a bit more about the write-down that has been performed. Some of you may recall, in 2019, Siloam started its first 5 year plan, which is called Siloam 5.0. As part of that, we review all the pipeline hospitals, basically all the hospitals that were in various stages of being built, and decided to stop a lot of them. There were about 21 pipeline hospitals, and I think back then, we actually stopped most of them. That is in line with management strategy to focus on consolidation instead of expansions. As you can see, that strategy has been very effective for Siloam, anchored by the performances that I've shown you earlier in regard to its performances in 2019, up till now. Now, Siloam 5.0, as the 5 year plan, basically finishes in 2023, so management has started planning for its next 5 year plan, called the Next Generation Siloam. There are various initiatives being discussed, for example, by focusing more on our different segment and asset type, and to look at, for example, growing adjacent businesses, including diagnostics, IT, and so forth. One of the key decisions that management came to was that there were still a number of hospitals, actually about four of them, from the pre-2019 list, that up till now have not been opened, and there's also no construction being made on these hospitals. Now, are there possibilities that these hospitals may be opened, in the medium to long- term? We think it's possible, and there's also the possibility that we may dispose of these properties as well. But management has decided to say, "Look, since up till now, these are pre-2019 properties, and there has been no activities done to them to date, it is important to be prudent and make a write-down down to its latest appraisal value." So which is why this reflects this IDR 309 billion adjustment that management has decided to take. There were some questions previously on, look, why did we decide to do this in the Q1s? I think it's because we did the review, and we started reviewing the Siloam, the 5 year plan in the Q1 of 2024. I think management has reached a decision that basically in the next 1 year-2 years, these hospitals will not be opened, and therefore, I think it's prudent to make the adjustment when we, I guess, have made that decision instead of waiting till the end of the year, so as to avoid surprises by year-end. We do believe that the investors' trust in that respect is very important. Again, I need to stress, this has no cash implications. These are all related to expenditures that were made pre-2019 into various hospitals that were in various states of construction. And it does not require any additional outlay. In fact, if we were to dispose of these hospitals at a later stage, there would likely be positive cash proceeds as a result. But as I mentioned, the management has decided to be prudent, and take a write-down, of these assets. Now, beyond that, if I can come back to operational matters, I mean, what are some of the key elements that are anchoring Siloam's performances? The first is obviously the industry-leading revenue intensities. Our revenue intensities measures through metrics such as the average revenue per occupied beds and average revenue per patient days. As you can see, is close to double what our other hospitals are doing in Indonesia. And you will see that that has remained stable for 1Q 2023- 1Q 2024 in regard to average revenue per occupied bed. It dropped slightly for average revenue per patient stays, largely as a result of shifting mix in 1Q 2023 versus 1Q 2024. There were basically a bit more BPJS patients in comparison to 1Q 2023. Again, some of this is. It's part of the course of business, as there are shift in payer mix from one quarter to the next. But I think if you were to look at it from a CAGR basis as a whole, the growth in the non-BPJS patients have been the most... It has been higher compared to the growth in the BPJS patients. Next. The operational result have been strong as well. As you can see, in regard to the various metrics that we have in here, inpatient admissions has grew by 16.2%, but inpatient days has grew by 15.9%. You see that the occupancy rate has improved as well, by 8.6% to close at 70.8%. The outpatient visits has similarly improved by 13.8%. The quarterly oncology results, we have spent a lot of effort on managing margin as well. You will note that the Siloam's margin has steadily expanded since 2019. That's due to various initiatives that management have been taking. I mean, part of one of them is, for example, the review on the material costs in regard to the drugs and clinical supplies. Drugs and clinical supplies currently made up about 28.4% of revenue as opposed to 30.2% in 2022, and 35.1% in 2019. Operating expenses similarly have decreased. I mean, compared to 4Q 2023, in fact, that has dropped from 31.9% of revenue down to 28% of revenue. Compared to 2019 of 36.1%, you can see that that is a significant drop. This has allowed us to grow EBITDA margin from 18.4% in 2019, all the way up to 30%. In fact, we've been able to maintain EBITDA margins consistently for the last three quarters at above 30%, and we do believe that this should be the steady state moving forward. Net profit margins currently sits at 14.3%. Again, as I mentioned, the slight dip is due to the fact that there was a one-off insurance payment in 4Q 2023. Otherwise, you would see that net profit and correspondingly, the net profit margins has actually improved compared to before. Next. Payer group mix, I've alluded to this early on. 1Q 2023 to 1Q 2024, you do see a slight shift in the BPJS, whereby BPJS actually went up from 17% to 18%. Again, these are seasonal in nature, but they over the course of time, you will see that the growth is actually coming more from the non-BPJS. I mentioned before that we have industry-leading revenue intensity. That is due to the focus on the high complexity cases. In these cases, there is a strong focus on what we call CONGO, yeah, cardio, onco, neuro, gastro, and orthopedics. Again, as you can see in here, that the throughput and the average revenue from those disciplines have been steadily growing over time as well. Next. These are some of the improvements that Siloam has conducted. But in the, for example, the Kebon Jeruk, there have been new facilities being renovated. This is in line with the Siloam strategy to focus on more of the premium, customers. Next. You will see that, similarly, MRCCC have had the new lobby designed, and the VIP room, in MRCCC has been revamped as well. Some of the new projects that, Siloam is currently working on, I'd be excited to share with you, is, for example, we are building a new oncology centers using the same MRCCC name that you see in our Semanggi hospitals. We do believe that MRCCC is not a location, but a brand name, and it stands for, excellence in the oncology treatment and services. MRCCC in the Siloam Semanggi has been doing very well, and we do want to replicate that, by building a dedicated oncology center, in Lippo Village as well. The Siloam do want to be seen as the leader in being able to treat the increasing prevalence of oncology cases in Indonesia. Our Bali hospitals, as all of you might know, have always been doing very well, especially post-COVID. We continue to invest in renovating our Bali hospitals. This is example of the polyclinic, executive polyclinic, that we are developing in the Denpasar. The digital transformations have continued as well. We now see that over 25% of our outpatient bookings now comes through the digital channels. We do believe that this provides a seamless experience to our customers and allow easier access to various patient services. The functionality in the MySiloam app, if you haven't tried it, you really should, because we have a tech-enabled healthcare services along with the deployment of AI to improve service delivery. All right, on to malls and hotels. Malls have had a stable quarters. If you look at the mall EBITDA, that's improved by 22%, and with EBITDA drop, a slight drop of 10%. Occupancies and visitors have remained stable as well. We do see that our flagship malls continue to perform well. Managements continue to spend effort to revitalize some of the older strata malls. We do believe that some of the AEI efforts that is currently ongoing in our malls, such as Plaza Semanggi, and the Gajah Mada that's recently been completed, would continue to see revenue and EBITDA growth, along with the support in the occupancy and average rental rate. Next. Next. Here are some of the activities. Obviously, we do believe that it's important to focus on events in order to draw crowds to our malls, and the planning of events have always been a key focus. And so these are some of the events that have been held during 1Q of 2024. Next. Hotels, if we were to look at performances, hotels similarly have anchored themselves with a strong 8% improvement in revenue and 11% improvement in EBITDA as well. We do see gradually the tourist market continue to improve at places, for example, Manado. Even last year, we do see tourist traffic being very low, and we do see that that has gradually recovered this year as well. The leisure services, we've continued to optimize the target audiences to focus more on the leisure markets. So this has resulted in an improvement in the average room rate. As you can see, that's improved by 7% compared to 1Q 2023. So despite the fact that there's a slight negative in hotel occupancies, revenue, and EBITDA is still up due to the overall improvement in room rates. Which again, will be something that is sustainable compared to, you know, quarter- on- quarter performances, which again, is largely seasonal. Here are some of the events that have been launched in regard to Ramadan and breaking fast. Next. So looking forward. In regard to real estate, we continue to see positive headwind. We were very pleased with the launch of Park Serpong last weekend and the record turnout that we had. This has supported our belief that affordable housing continue to be a strong driver of growth in the real estate market, and that the market is also looking for products that are different to what is being offered in the existing market. I think we have been a leader in offering products such as the XYZ series and now the Q Livin series. These products, as always, we've always been the first in the market, and after we launch these sort of products, we find that, you know, there are similar products being launched by our competitors to address a similar segment as well. We are very glad that we always are at the forefront and being able to anticipate the market's demand and adopt the solution accordingly to meet what is required. We have achieved IDR 1.5 trillion marketing sales, and this is 28% of our guidance. Based on the launch that we've had recently as well, I think that we should fully expect to be able to meet the target that we have communicated to the market. Healthcare continue to be a leader in Indonesia, and I think the strategy from Siloam to focus on high complexity programs, including the focus on CONGO, has really paid off. There are further expansions being planned with the five hospitals in constructions in highly populated, highly high density area, and that will continue to anchor the growth of Siloam. Lifestyle, again, both for hotel and malls, we have seen a stable quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year improvements. We do believe that domestic demand will continue to be strong, especially after the elections. This would definitely be a positive for our lifestyle market. That's all from me. Again, I apologize for the disruptions. I'll hand the time back to Randi for Q&A. Do you have any more remarks, John Riady, for looking ahead? Yeah. Thank you, Daniel Phua, and good morning to all of you. Well, those of you who have questions can prepare. Let me add a couple of remarks. Some of these remarks will also address some of the questions that's been addressed in the chat box. I'd like to make four comments generally. The first is a general comment and one that echoes Daniel Phua's remarks. That overall, I am pleased with the continuing improvement in the operations across all of the different segments of our business. I think all the positive results that we're seeing operationally is a result of the strategies that we have consistently pursued over the last 2 years-3 years. Whether it's in healthcare or also in real estate and across the other businesses. So, looking forward, I think we'll continue to do that. There were a number of questions on marketing sales. I think we stand by our full year marketing sales numbers. And we've seen generally a very strong Q1 performance, as Daniel Phua has shared. The second comment I wanted to make was something more macro. A number of you asked about the impact of Bank Indonesia's decision to increase its benchmark interest rate by 25 basis points earlier this month. Generally, I see three ways in which this will impact our business. The first is from a demand point of view. And generally, I think over time, higher interest rates will dampen demand and will slow down the general economy. This is, I think, a headwind for us. Although, you know, I believe that this headwind is by and large manageable. But all else equal, it is a net negative for the demand environment. The second way in which interest rates affect our business, and also still related to demand, is on mortgage rates. Over time, you know, we do expect that banks will, at least to some extent, pass on the cost - the increase in the cost of interest to the buyers and the mortgage buyers. At the moment, we haven't seen that yet. In our launch last Saturday, we saw banks continue to be pretty aggressive on their mortgage offerings, mortgage programs. And so, hopefully, the banks will continue to be constructive on this. But as the Bank of Indonesia has indicated, there is a risk or there is a possibility of further interest rate increases this year. And so I do believe that as if and when that accumulates, this could have an increasingly material impact on the demand, on the demand environment. The third impact of this on our business is on the interest cost side. As you know, our syndicated loan, our Rp syndicated loan, is a floating interest rate pegged to a benchmark interest rate. So there is a direct correlation from the interest rate increases to our interest expense. Another macro trend, again, something that somebody asked, an anonymous participant asked, is what impact will the government's increase of its value-added tax, the PPN? Last year it was 10%, this year increased to 11%. Next year, in 2025, it will be increased further to 12%. Again, I think generally, this will either dampen demand or reduce our margins. A 1% increase in PPN is quite significant. So we'll keep you posted on that. I think it's a pretty straightforward answer. Having said that, I think generally, the demand we're seeing is quite structural, and we're seeing a lot of buyers who are first-time home buyers, buyers who are buying with the intention to live in. And so I think the demand is not so sensitive. But yes, it does impact the consumer psychology. The last point I'll make before I'll open it up to other questions is on our bonds. A number of you asked what plans we have for the upcoming 2025 Rupiah Wakala bonds. At the moment, we don't yet have concrete plans. It's something that we've been preparing and also thinking about. At this moment, we've got nothing concrete to update you yet, but we will do so by July of this year. So we'll keep you all posted on that. And then finally, on LMIRT, a number of you asked about LMIRT's maturities this year, in a couple of months. I can't comment on this. I understand LMIRT had a call, had an earnings call, I think yesterday or earlier this week. So questions with regard to LMIRT should be addressed to James Lee and the management team there. The only thing I'll say, which I've continued to share in the previous earnings calls, is that we will continue to be as supportive as we can, and as constructive as we can, as we have been in the last one year, in providing the assistance that LMIRT requires. Thank you. I'll open it up to questions. Most of the questions has been answered. On Park Serpong. There was a question on Park Serpong. At the current run rate, how many years can Park Serpong sustain? Probably between 10 years-15 years. So there is a pretty long pipeline there, probably around 10 years-15 years. Note also that, you know, the prices of our launches for a similarly sized product between today and when we first launched in October 2023, has increased already by about 15%. I don't believe that we're gonna increase prices by 15% every six months. That's not sustainable. But I do expect that, and it's always been part of our strategy to continue to increase prices. So, based on some reasonable trend of increase, I think we probably have anywhere from 12 years- 15 years- 17 years of pipeline and Park Serpong... Any further potential write-downs at Siloam? No. You know, the last time we did a similar spring cleaning was in 2019. Correct me if I'm wrong, Daniel Phua, 2019. Yes, that's correct. When myself and the team was first appointed to Karawaci. So it's been five years since then. And that's what triggered a review earlier this year, resulting in the outcome that Daniel Phua has shared. So, no, you know, I think this is very much a one-off event. And a number of these items that we decided to write down today, we were aware of in 2019, but at that time, we thought that it was the right thing to do, not to take those write offs yet. But now that five years have transpired, having done another review and knowing what we know today, we think that this is the conservative approach to managing our balance sheet. And so we've decided to make this decision. But it is very much a one-off, and I don't expect any further write-downs of this nature. I think that's about it. There's one question about why operating margins increased ahead of gross profits, about GPM, what drove OpEx decreases? Again, I don't know what you're referring to. If you're referring to sort of the consolidated financials, generally, we focus a lot on cost. And so whether it's on our real estate business, you would have seen that our cost to complete, our cost of construction as a percentage of revenues have decreased. And you'll see that pattern as well in Siloam, with our margins having expanded, and the same thing with the hotels business. So generally, that's been something that we've been working on very hard over the last 12 months. And I think there's still room for more. So that's something we continue to be focused on. Okay, are there any further questions from the audience? Any further questions, please feel free to type in the chat box. Daniel Phua, any remarks from you? Otherwise- I'm just gonna just picking through some of the recent questions, that is asked. So obviously, over 90% of our assets are still unencumbered, from our perspective. We, as John Riady has alluded to, I mean, in regard to 2025 bonds, I think there are various options being discussed. We are currently still optimistic that we would be able to refinance it through the various channels that are available. There is no immediate plan for further bond tenders. Siloam, we've always said that is an important and core assets for management. What is the view of sustainable debt? Well, over time, I think we are... Again, I don't think the strategy has changed. Over time, we do intend to reduce our debt level. The liability management exercise that was conducted last year, I think, is an evidence of that, whereby, you know, we, all in all, the debt exposure is reduced by over IDR 1 trillion. I think the strategy is to continue to reduce it, based on various strategies that we implemented, including the improvement in operational cash flow. I think that we certainly support that. Well, the hotel business as a whole is providing positive EBITDA. There are questions about whether we should dispose of the hotel. But in this regard, I think it's important to recognize the fact that it is generating positive return for the shareholders. In regard to what assets will we look at disposing and how we look at it, again, those are basically decisions that management continue to evaluate, depending on the, I guess, the market conditions. Banks, so far, the refinancing appetite, banks have generally been very supportive, from our discussions with them, and liquidity is generally still strong within the Indonesian banks. There's some comment on Holdco cash balances as well. Yes, Holdco cash balances, in fact, have increased, but those of you who are, again, working backward and calculated. And I think a lot of the drivers in improving the Holdco cash balances is due to improvement from operationals. But the marketing sales performances, as mentioned before, the Park Serpong sales have been doing very well. And due to that, that has basically been the main driver in the improvement in the Holdco cash balances. You're asking about the IDR 309 million impairment. I think Randi can give you the breakdown. The impairment appears in different parts of the financial statements. But I think Randi can give you a breakdown after this, so that you can tie the numbers in terms of where the IDR 309 billion write down appears. Holdco cash flows, again, we have mentioned, we stopped disclosing operational cash flow, but there's always, you can work backward and calculate it. As some of you may have noted, once you calculate it, Holdco cash flow has in fact improved, compared to 4Q 2024. I think that basically answers all the outstanding questions, yeah, that I see on this list here. Okay, thank you, Daniel Phua, for the answers. Everyone, thank you for attending our Q1 2024 earnings call result for PT Lippo Karawaci Tbk. See you again on the next call. Thank you very much, and bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you.