Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Kingspan Interim Results 2023 conference call. My name is Bruno, and I'll be operating your call today. During this presentation, you can register to ask a question by pressing star, followed by one on your telephone keypad. I'll now hand over to your host, Gene Murtagh. Please go ahead. Good morning. Good morning, and thank you, Bruno. I am joined here this morning by Geoff and Katrina, and we will take you through the interim results over the next half hour or so. Let's get directly into it on slide number 3, which is titled H123 in summary, and to the right-hand side of that slide, in essence, no surprises from the recent communications that we have had. Revenue is marginally behind prior year by 2%, at EUR 4.1 billion. It delivered a profit that's broadly in line, and no ahead of prior year at EUR 436 million, which resulted in EPS improvement of 3%. And then in addition to that, related to our whole Planet Passionate program, our direct GHG emissions reduced by a very significant 51%. Largely in this case, owing to emissions improvements from our processes, rather than necessarily from our, from our, from our energy consumption, but nevertheless, a very significant improvement in the, in the greenhouse gases. So that is, that's our H1 in summary. No surprises, and I'll hand you over to Geoff for some detail. Thank you, Gene. I am going all the way to page 15 in the deck for those who have it in front of them. Just to give you the key financial highlights, group revenues, a little under EUR 4.1 billion, down 2% on the H1 of last year. Trading profit at EUR 435.5 million, a touch ahead of last year and in line with the update that we gave in July. Group earnings per share, up 3% to EUR 1.752, and we've declared an interim dividend of EUR 0.263, up by 3% in line with earnings, and a payout ratio of 15%, which is in line with our policy guidance. A particular highlight of these results has been the record by some distance in terms of free cash flow, EUR 357 million of free cash generated in the H1 of the year. Net debt was EUR 1.37 billion, up versus the half year period last year, but reflective of the fact that we've made considerable development investments over the last 12 months or so. Trading margin up 20 basis points to 10.7%. Our effective tax rate, 17.5% for the half year, and that's our guidance for the full year effective rate, which is also in line with last year's effective rate. Net debt to EBITDA, 1.43 times. Return on capital employed, 15.8%, but bearing in mind the timing of acquisitions, when you annualize the impact of acquisitions, that measure is 16.3%. Turning to page 16, just on trading profit and trading margin. You'll see on the right-hand side the trajectory of trading profit in successive half year periods since 2019. And on the left-hand side, we've got the profile of margins by division. Insulated panels, a particular highlight, 12.2% trading margin in the H1. That's reflective of the market mix of sales, but also ongoing progress in areas of the business, such as QuadCore, which was 25% of our insulated panel sales in the H1 this year, versus 21% in the H1 of last year. The insulation margin under a little bit of pressure, 9.5% compared to 10.5% in the H1 of last year. That's reflective of predominantly the negative operating leverage associated with negative volumes in the period. Roofing and waterproofing is more of a H1 weighted business, but nonetheless, you know, has had the trading environment in the roofing category has been a challenge. We would expect to make a full year margin, a little north of 7%, so an improvement on the H1. I think it's also fair to highlight the fact that the integration of the various businesses that we've acquired in what is a new category for Kingspan, that integration is going, is going very well. Light, air and water, good margin progress in the H1, up 120 basis points versus the H1 of last year. You know, we, we, we expect for the full year to be knocking on the door of 8%. We are, as we've highlighted before, very much on a march towards 10% in that division within the next 2 to 3 years. Data and flooring, again, has an exceptional margin performance in the H1 of 14.7%. The data segment, in particular, performing very, very well. All told, that added up to a 10.7 group margin. Just on the sales and profit bridge on the, the next page, you'll see that acquisitions added EUR 283 million of sales, half year on half year, and EUR 16.7 million of profitability half year on half year. Underlying sales were down EUR 318 million or 8%. And profitability, underlying profitability, down by about EUR 10.5 million or so. Currency, a modest negative, of 1%, both in terms of sales and Trading profit. Free cash flow is set out on the next page. As I mentioned at the outset, a very strong free cash flow performance. Working capital, there was an inflow of a little under EUR 85 million. We, we typically increase working capital in the H1 of the year, whereas this, this year, we've actually reduced that. To put that EUR 85 million into context, we had an outflow of EUR 262 million in working capital in the H1 of last year. A, a, a, a very positive performance from a working capital perspective. It's more reflective of the fact that we came into, you know, over the last 12 months or so, working capital levels were, were elevated. Our working capital sales ratio at the end of June 2023 is 13.2%, compared to 14.5% in June 2022. And we would expect that measure to be sub 13% by the end of the year. You know, we expect further progress to come in the remaining part of the year. Other items on that page, tax outflow is reflective of the income statement charge. CapEx of EUR 115 million, in line, in line with our, our organic development plans. Turning to the next page, just reconciling opening and closing net debt. The only other, beyond the free cash flow, reducing the debt, the only two, other two, movements of note were the acquisition investment of a little under EUR 150 million in the period, and the dividend, the last year's final dividend, which was also paid for the period. Net debt landing at EUR 1.37 billion. And some, some metrics on the strength of our balance sheet set out on the next page. Uh, you know, notwithstanding the considerable investment that we've made over the last twelve or eighteen months, the balance sheet remains, uh, strong. Net debt to EBITDA of one point four three times. Total available liquidity at the end of June of one point five six billion. Uh, during the half year period, we arranged, new private placement, loan notes, and of three hundred and nineteen million, with a six-year maturity. And the weighted average maturity of all of our debt facilities is four point four years." Our ROCE performance is set out on the next page, at a reported level of 15.8%, but as I referenced at the outset, 16.3%, reflecting the annualized return of acquisitions. Geographically, the profile of sales is set out on page 22. I think the move to highlight is the Americas, half year 2023, represents 23% of our revenues, compared to 20% in the H1 of last year. That's the movement of note, half year on half year. They're the key financials, and with that, I'll hand back to Gene. Excellent, Geoff, thank you very much. We, we'll, we'll just finish up on the slide titled Outlook. In essence, the, the, the breadth of the business has been evolving and changing very positively over, over the last number of years. In terms of geography, in terms of product offering, in terms of sectoral exposure, like, all of which really, really leaves us in a, in a fairly steady, robust position, despite the, the concerns that are prevailing at the moment in general. With that also comes completely varying performances by market, and as you'd expect. We're seeing weakness, in particular, we would say in Germany, to some extent, Benelux and obviously the UK. Then areas of notable strength would be North America, South America, and France. Then everything else is broadly in between. On balance, we're well underway now with the H2, and we would expect to deliver a fairly steady performance, aided by the improving order intake comps, both in terms of the insulated panels and insulation board businesses. We also need to bear in mind that the order bank that the business had this time last year was significantly greater than it, than it is now. Whilst the intake's improving, the bank is still a lot lower. All in all, we would expect a steady H2 for the year. Now, Bruno, we're open to questions. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. That's star one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, press star followed by two, and please do also remember to unmute your microphone when it's your turn to speak. Our first question comes from David O'Brien from Goodbody. David, your line is now open. Please proceed. Good morning, thanks for taking my questions, everyone. Firstly, if I could push a little bit further, Gene, on the order book or order intake commentary. You know, I get that the easier comps are there, but I suppose, could you give us a little more color how things are evolving, maybe even sequentially? Like, are we seeing any signs of, of underlying improvement? If so, maybe a little more color on, on by region or end market. I know you gave a, a bit of a helicopter view already, but any more color you can give. Related to that, within the statement, specifically on North America, you talk about the, the larger projects for tech and automotive having a, an extremely encouraging forward pipeline. Specific to those type of projects, could you give us a sense of what type of visibility or how far forward you can see on the delivery of those, given, given the size of some of them? Next, just on the, the development pipeline, you note in the statement, a strong pipeline, and maybe you could just flesh that out a little bit. You know, you did EUR 1 billion of deals in 2022. Is, is the pipeline of that kind of scale? Is it bigger? Have vendor expectations evolved? Are you seeing more assets coming your way than we were, six months ago? Just a little more color on that. And finally, for me, you just note some potential deflation into the H2. Given that it's a challenged volume environment, I guess, how are your comfort levels on managing price cost in that environment into the H2 and then into 2024? Okay. Quite a few things in there, David. Just in terms of the order intake. Excuse me. In essence, we were, we were, we were behind prior year for much of the H1, and really around the turn of the year. Say, June, July, and into August, the business, businesses would be, you know, 10 to 15% ahead of prior year. I do have to stress that that's, that's against a pretty weak comp this time last year. You'll recall that the order intake and bank really peaked unnaturally around March or April last year, and then, then tailed off. That's how it's feeling, it's feeling for now, and the project pipeline that the businesses are working on is also reasonably healthy. In terms of geographically, I would say that the Americas, both, both North and South, France would be, would be positive standouts. I think, you know, not, not unexpected weakness in some of the other markets, Germany, Nordics, and of course, the UK. In terms of our sectoral exposure on the tech end, like, that affects, it affects a number of the businesses. Like, it's, it's obviously insulated panels, it's boards on flat roof and floor insulation, its technical installation, and obviously it's the whole data and flooring side as well, it's on the internals. There's, there's, I think by the very nature of these projects, there's probably more like a 9 to12 month visible horizon there, and that's actually, it's positive and improving, if anything. That's not just in, in, in North America, but in other parts of the world as well. So that, that side of the business is actually very exciting, both in terms of the activity, but also the scale of these projects, the breadth of product solutions we can put into them versus, you know, some traditional projects, is all really very meaningful. Also just to bear in mind, in terms of pipeline and all of that, the, the, the district heating business, which has been actually an excellent performer for us and will be in the future, is again, something with very long visibility, naturally, because of the, the, the, the, the infrastructural underground aspect of it. There, there again, I would say that the pipeline of activity we're tracking, would be well in excess of 50% higher than what it was even 12 months ago, and that wasn't bad. That side of the business, also we expect to be, to be, to, to deliver very well. Then from a development spend and pipeline, it's, it's, it's growing. I think as the business grows, as the, as the, the various channels expand for Kingspan, we're actually seeing more and more opportunity. We naturally just need to keep it all between the hedges from a debt ratio perspective, and that, that's what will be the, the, the, the constraining factor, if you like, not, not the opportunity. Finally, on deflation. On deflation, we expect mild deflation, kind of Q3, Q4 on the key materials. You, you're comfortable, given the challenging volume backdrop, that that's manageable from a price cost perspective overall? Yeah. Yeah, broadly. Okay, thanks very much. Our next question comes from Florence O'Donoghue from Davy. Floor, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I'll stick to the insulation area, if that's okay. Just a couple kind of questions on that, if, if that's all right. The first, just maybe to understand the mix of the business between technical and I guess, what you might call the, the legacy, boards aspect, just so to understand the mix of that. Second part then would be within the boards part, how much of that is residential? My guess would be, it's arguably your business that's probably most exposed to what's happening in, in, in resi markets at present. Then the other part of that, just, just something you mentioned in the statement this morning, about the structural operating cost reduction measures in the, in the PIR board. Be very interested to hear a bit more on that, if that's all right. Then just finally, in that area, just to comment around, is destocking an issue or is, is, is that in play at all? Just wondering about that. Thank you. Okay, Floor. So in terms of the broad, broad mix of the insulation business, now, it's around 35% what we call technical stroke industrial insulation. That, that's covering everything from the district heating we just talked about, to pipe insulation, to air conditioning, ducting insulation, and, and all of this. That's, that's an area that we're going to be concentrating a lot on in the future as well. Even at, even at that, like, that's probably whatever, 5, 5, EUR 600 billion. It's, it's still actually a drop in the ocean in terms of the opportunity worldwide. That's, that's an area for, for, for future, future, growth. Then the other 65%, broadly, it's about half, half between residential and non-residential. An area that, you know, you'll know from other industries that's under significant pressure over the last while has been large industrial flat roofing, and we feel that in our insulation board business as well. In particular, around the margin point that Geoff referred to earlier on, that's where it's most acutely felt, is on large-scale flat roofs, mainly so far for Kingspan in Europe. That's where the price and pressure will, I think, continue for the near term. Just on the same subject, like, destocking is something that's got an awful lot of attention. I don't think it's a particularly prominent feature in Kingspan. Like, maybe it has been to some extent, but it's, it's not an excuse that we would, we would draw on. Great. And just wondering about the, the PIR measures. Cost reduction. The cost reduction measures? Yeah. they will- Yeah. Little bit sensitive, but they will cover, they will cover all kinds of areas. Obviously, from material inputs, different blends, densities, just general composition of product, is where the concentration will be. Great. Thanks. Thanks, Gene. Thank you. Thanks, Mark. Our next question comes from Gregor Kuglitsch from UBS. Gregor, your line is now open. Please proceed. Hi. Good morning. A couple of questions, please. Maybe firstly, just sort of coming back to the commentary, I think, Geoff, you made back in July, where you I think you were sort of saying perhaps you'll have a flattish volume half 2, and sort of an equal half 1, half 2 profit. Just want to kind of double check whether that's still what you expect at this stage, and maybe within that, if you could give a little bit of extra color on what you think the panel margin will trend towards? The second question is maybe a bit more strategic. I think you kind of actually flagged sort of a expanding opportunity set, more channels, sort of more M&A opportunity, and basically, kind of the balance sheet being the constraining factor. Obviously, you bought STEICO or agreed to buy STEICO. I guess I want to understand, like, what's, what's new, what's opening up as a sort of new opportunity, I don't know, compared to 12, 12 months ago or something, you know, whichever time frame you want to choose. Like, what, what's, what's changing in the, in the opportunity set, and where specifically do you think you'll be expanding more into in the coming, in the coming years? Okay. Yeah, just to take your first question, Gregor, on the H2. If you take the H2 of 2022, we had sales of about EUR 4.2 billion. I mean, best, best sense at this stage is that underlying sales will be down somewhere between 4 to 5%, as best as we can assess that, and that's, that's volume stroke price. As we've referenced earlier, there's a bit of deflation around. Currency -1% or there, thereabout in the H2, and then we've acquisition scope of EUR 120 to 130 million. Yeah, all, all of those points towards a similar sales outturn of about EUR 4.1 billion in the H2, which is similar to what we did in the H1. From a margin perspective, you know, a margin of 10.5% or there or thereabout, looks, you know, looks, looks like to be a reasonable estimate at this point in time. That, when you do the math, essentially implies that where consensus is currently at, which is about EUR 870 million in trading profit. Clearly the performances within the individual divisions will differ, but that's the shape of it from a, from a, a group perspective. Thank you. Yeah, Gregor, just, just on the strategic side, yes, we talked about the an ever-expanding opportunity, and like, it, it's, it's really right across the piece. Like, for start, there are, there are, there are other complementary technologies that we are progressively getting into. We've recently made, I think, a very substantial move into the natural end with, with the announced investment in STEICO, which is proper industrial scale natural. It's not, it's not, laboratory scale, so it's a business with, you know, approximately EUR 400 million of revenue and growing and very significant capacity. That, that's, that's an area where we believe over time, we can develop that into a very exciting opportunity, not just as an insulation, but as a core for insulated panels and other things. The technical and industrial area we just kind of touched on earlier, again, relatively embryonic for Kingspan and an extremely important area from a, from an energy conservation perspective, and I, and I think an underestimated area in terms of the, the energy that's required for, you know, for, for steam and for air conditioning, et cetera. So a huge, huge part of the challenge in reducing emissions is actually in that area. Kind of an exciting opportunity, daylighting and ventilation. Like we are, we're, we're getting places on the daylighting side. I still think we're, we're, we're Mickey Mouse on ventilation and general passive air movement. That's an area that I think has, has lots of opportunity. Water, again, around water storage, harvesting, cleansing, all of that is an area that's got lots of scope. Of course, we've talked a lot about roofing, and again, we're really just starting off there. That's a full global opportunity, not just for waterproofing, but for insulation pull through of multiple technologies. Like, we're at the very early stages of a lot of these areas, and as I say, like it's, it's about prioritizing a pipeline rather than wondering what to do. Okay. Thank you very much. Thanks, Sergio. Our next question comes from Cedar Ekblom, from Morgan Stanley. Cedar, your line is now open. Please proceed. Thanks very much. Good morning, everyone. I've got a question on the margins in the panels business. QuadCore is growing as a percentage of that division, and I wonder if you could give us a bit of color on if we should think about a margin mix improvement over the medium term from that growth? Secondly, inventory benefits in H1 because of the unwind of working capital. Is it possible to quantify that? I'm wondering if the margins are lower in the H2 because you don't necessarily have some of that tailwind in that division. 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You, you might recall this time last year, we, we did have a margin, hit in the H2 because we were, we were overstocked, at a time when, when prices were coming down, and that did impact margins in the H2 of last year. That, that, that, that won't repeat or is unlikely to repeat itself in the H2 of this year. That's helpful, but just more, just follow up. You were hit on the margin in the H2 of last year. Yeah. Did you benefit materially on the margin in the H1 of this year because you did the opposite as it relates to working capital? As we moved through the very early stages of 2023, we had less of a headwind to absorb from higher priced inventory. Essentially, that washed through and we were closer to market. It was more about restoring margin following a period of more expensive inventory than necessarily it being a, you know, a benefit relative to, say, 2 years ago. We're just getting back to where we needed to be from an inventory days perspective. Understood. Thank you so much. Okay. Thanks, Cedar. Our next question comes from George Speak from BNP Paribas. George, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for taking my question. Firstly, could we just get an update on PowerPanel? You, you just mentioned expecting it to come through in 2024. Maybe just, yeah, a bit of a flavor for what's going on there. Then, on roofing, you, you talked about selling insulation through the roofing business. I think we, we all understand the, the attractiveness of that proposition. Could you maybe just talk about how you go about convincing customers to buy roofing as a bundle, and then maybe what proportion of sales are currently bundled versus selling the components of the roof separately? Thanks. Thanks, George. In terms of the PowerPanel, we, we, we've had, we've had to reset there, as we, as we've said before. It's, it's a more, it's a more complicated innovation process, than, than maybe we might have expected, which is, is no negative thing, to be honest. It's just, it's just a, a timing piece. Effectively, we have completely redesigned the product. The, the, the delay is... Well, we've redesigned the product and changed our, our supply sources. It's a different technology. Structurally, it's different. Performance-wise, it's different. Length of guarantee will be more enhanced, performance is higher, et cetera. - As I said, it's, it's with a different partner. I, I think the delay from now on is actually just going to be literally the, the certification and approvals process, which, which are obviously vast, and they're international. We expect to start testing of product within the next four to five months, and we expect a launch in earnest around mid-year next year. I, I, I would be hoping at the latest. The opportunity, to be honest, it's, it's the opportunity is, is, is bigger than we would have anticipated. Let's, let's get a product out on the market before we, before we start time, you know, tidying up all that. From, from an insulation through roofing perspective, it's very interesting because it's, it is, it is the model already in the U.S. In that, in that, in that side, the construction industry is actually much more advanced than what it is in Europe, where it's an awful lot more fragmented. North America, I'd estimate at least 90% of roofing is actually sold as a bundle and and guaranteed as such. That's, you know, you will know the usual players at that. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a well-developed, well-structured approach. In Euro- in Europe, it's probably more like 10%, and therein lies the opportunity. It's, it's gonna take time, because there's obviously a little bit of, there's, there's procurement culture, et cetera, to change. We are working on being in a very unique position of having multiple membranes and multiple insulation technologies that, to be honest, nobody else will actually be able to offer. That's, that's gonna take time. Working on it. Perfect. Thank you. Thanks, George. Our next question comes from Yassine Touahri from On Field Investment Research. Yassine, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, good morning. Just a question, a little bit of precision, if possible, on the organic decline in H1. I think it was -8%. Is it fair to assume it's, like, approximately -10% volume and +2% on prices? Also, when I look at, you're suggesting that you could get an organic decline in sales of 4% or 5% in H2, is it fair to assume it would be, like, a little bit of a price decline, maybe 1 to 2%, and the rest in volume decline? That would be my first question. Then second question is just a follow-up on the roofing landscape in Europe. So, you have a stake in Nordic Waterproofing. I understand that there is more asphalt roofing in Europe than in the U.S. Where do you feel the roofing landscape in the flat roofing landscape in Europe could look in the future? Do you see more membrane, more TPO, more EPDM, more PVC? Do you want to focus on asphalts? I'd really like to get your thoughts. Or could we see the European roofing industry looks like the U.S. roofing industry in 5 to 10 years from now? Okay. Okay, Yassine, just to take the, the value, value volume piece first. Our underlying sales overall at the group level were down 8% in the H2. It probably makes sense to just look at that in the, in the, in the two larger divisions for now. Insulated panels' underlying sales were down 10% in the H2. Of that, volume was -7%, and price mix was -3%. Underlying sales in insulation were down 7% in the H2. There was some positive price activity in their sales in the H2. On that basis, volumes were down a low, low double digits in that division in the H2 of the year. Going into the H2, as you, as you've highlighted yourself, the, it does imply single digit volume declines overall, in the H2, with a, with a little bit of price, deflation as well, bearing in mind what we've said about, raw material prices. That, that's the general shape of it. Just a very brief follow-up on this. Sorry. Just a very brief follow-up on the single digit volume decline. I'm struggling to reconcile the message that you're giving on your order intake, which is up 10 to 15% in July, and the single digit volume decline for H2. Is it a methodology issue or? Sorry. Yeah, I suppose there's, there's a few points. Firstly, insulated panels are 58% of the group, so those order book comments speak to the insulated panel division. you know, on volumes in insulation boards will remain quite negative into the H2 of the year, bearing in mind the comments we've made around the flat roofing category, but also the residential category, where we've got 50% of our boards business is exposed to residential. you know, the volume outlook for the H2 in boards will be softer than, than in insulated panels. I suppose the, the second aspect to it is that, as we, as we referenced earlier, we were sitting on a stronger order book, or more volume this time last year in total. Bearing in mind the way orders were placed last year, there was a, essentially an accelerated order intake profile in 2022 in an inflationary environment and concerns around scarcity and all of that, which meant that orders were placed much earlier last year. We had a fallow period in the H2 of last year. We have a more normal order placement profile this year. It, it's, it's really just the timing associated with, with, with, with all of those trends. Yeah. Then, then on your second point, Yassine, about the, the, the pattern of roofing and, and different technologies and cultures. Yeah, we've, we've, our own, our own business presently is a mix of, is a mix of synthetic through Alwitra and, bitumen through Derbigum. Obviously, we have that strategic stake in Nordic, which is, is multiple technology as well, but probably with a heavy enough bent on, bitumen. You rightly point out that asphalt / bitumen is, is a much more prevalent technology in Europe than it's, than it is in the US. In fact, it's virtually nonexistent in the US. We, we would expect over time that the European market will drift towards technologies like TPO, in particular, and away, away from bitumen. It's not gonna happen overnight, and I think some, some countries and building cultures are, are very, very slow to move. I think it's very plausible that it will move that direction. Then also a huge difference between U.S. and Europe is, Europe uses multiple insulation technologies on roofs, whereas predominantly in North America, it's what they call Polyiso, which is a PIR board, which naturally we have as well. In Europe, you have everything from XPS to PIR to EPS, to mineral wool, et cetera, et cetera, from a technology perspective. Therein lies the opportunity clearly for us with having as broad a spectrum of solutions as possible. Europe's very different, I think it will drift towards the American model. Thank you very much. Very helpful. Our next question comes from Yuri Serov from Redburn Atlantic. Yuri, if your line is now open, please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Two questions, if I can ask them one by one. First of all, thinking about 2024, we're not talking about 24 now, but I'm just trying to conclude based on your comment. You're saying that the order profile for this year is more normal and the order intake is positive. Should we conclude that volumes are going to be positive in 24? We don't know, but, you know, what's the best guess on this? I think at, at this, at this remove, Yuri, it's hard for us to be any way specific about, about 2024. I suppose we; we'll have some early, you know, early steer on us, when we're next out in November, but at this stage, 2024 is a long time away. Okay, fair enough. A couple of... Well, another question on volumes, looking backwards. You said that the insulation overall volume was double-digits, I don't know, call it -12, but technical is growing. Can you give us an indication as to by how much technical was growing this half year? I mean, last time you gave 18% growth in volume during the previous reporting season, where are we now? Yeah, it grew by, in, in absolute terms, the technical insulation business grew by 17% in the H1 of the year. Now, that's the total sales. Broadly, you know, volumes were 9 to 10% of that price was the, was the balance of it. You know, that, that does imply that the insulation board volumes were, you know, were down by more than the divisional average, when you, when you do the math on that. Yeah. Yuri, just to say there's still a few, still a few more, there's still a few more people to ask questions, so maybe 2 more, please. Okay. Just one last question, and this is really technical. Looking at your financials and, well, your financial income is very high. Can you explain that? I mean, part of that is dividends, but the numbers are still quite elevated. Yeah, just on the income side, the only benefit of a higher interest rate environment is we actually get a return on our, on our deposits. We've interest income as a consequence of that. Secondly, within that, there's a EUR 2.5 million dividend in respect of our investment in Nordic Waterproofing. It's really those two factors that have driven that, that increase versus the H1 of last year. I understand. It's basically just interest rates. And in the comprehensive income, there is a negative item of minus EUR 8, which also relates to your equity investment. That's Nordic Waterproofing, I presume? That is Nordic Waterproofing, correct. Okay, it's just the market value of the investment? Just the mark, the mark to market on that. Sounds good. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Yuri. Thanks, Yuri. As a reminder, if you'd still like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. That's star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from Rajesh Patki from JPMorgan. Rajesh, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, thank you. Good morning, all. I've got two questions, please. First one is on the raw materials. You've talked about it from a broad perspective. Can you add some color on, chemicals and steel individually? Now with the roofing and waterproofing division, are there any other raw materials that have become important? Second question is ahead of the Capital Markets Day, could you maybe give us a teaser or key agenda for the Capital Markets Day? Thank you. Okay, Rajesh, just on the raw mats. To say there is steel and chemicals still remain our primary, like obviously steel far more so than MDI and polyolic chemicals. Just to deal with the other part of your question first, there aren't any other major raw materials outside of that, given the expansion of the business actually. Because of, you know, it's a blend of all kinds of different technologies. On the chemical side, I'd say it's a gradual drift downward at the moment, partly input related, partly energy related, partly demand related. So that's, that's a gradual drift down. On the steel, actually, it's up, down, up, down, up, down, if you like. So, it's a kind of... It's up 100, down 100, up 100, and that's really what we've seen over the last three or four consecutive quarters. Down Q1, up Q2, we expect down Q3, Q4, don't know just yet. That's kind of the, the pattern of the raw materials. The Capital Markets Day, Rajesh, we'll, we'll send out an agenda shortly, there'll be, you know, eight, eight senior leaders from across the business that will be presenting on, on different regions, different market segments. It should be a great day and then a, a site tour. We, we'll, separately send you the agenda for that. Thank you. Thanks, Rajesh. Our next question comes from Yves Bromehead from Societe Generale. Yves, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning, everyone. Just a few brief questions. First, on the presentation pack, you flesh out your organic expansion. It seems that you're actually sort of bringing forward your ambition to build the flagship mineral insulation plants. I think the timeline is a bit earlier than what was shown in in December. Can I just ask whether you already have the permit for the plants? What's the total CapEx for that? Also thinking about the rationale of the geographic location, I think it's in Northern Ireland, would this be more feeding the Brittany type of markets, or would you export to the US and to Northern Europe? Also sticking to mineral wool for a minute here, should we think about this as your first plant and then rolling that out to sort of the, the other side on, on the Eastern Europe, Central Europe? Would you consider MMA in here? Lastly, again, on organic expansion, I just noticed that your South American plants in Colombia and Paraguay didn't seem to be in the December presentation. Just trying to understand what's-- what kind of strategy are you having here? Are you thinking about growing faster than expected in, in South America, which is growing at the minute? Thank you very much. Okay, Yves. Just in terms of the, the mineral wool, like, to be honest, we have limited ambition in this. You know, so it's, it's, it's not something that we expect to be a, a very prominent feature of Kingspan. Like, even, even if we developed a EUR 500 million business, it's 4% or 5% of the group at this stage. It's very much just part of fleshing out the full spectrum. There are obviously heavyweights in that area, and, and they're welcome to, to be frank. I think we, we have, we have a significant internal demand, about 120,000 or 130,000 tons already, which we acquire from the market. Obviously, we would want some, some, some comfort, if you like, around the supply sources of that, hence our interest. To be specific, no, we don't have a permit yet, because actually it's a difficult process to get planning for in any country in Europe because of the... frankly, the emissions related to the process, which is, you know, largely why we don't like it in the first place. We're still working on that. Our bigger consumption, incidentally, is by far in continental Europe, and the farther east we go, it's even greater. Yes, we have ambition to do more. For a start, it's very much part of the tech campus in Ukraine that we're moving ahead with. It'll be a cornerstone project in that, in that whole development. Would we look at some M&A? We would indeed. You know, nothing that's going to, you know, divert us too much. It's just, to be honest, it's a, it's a, it's one of the fans in the, in the spectrum, and it's nothing more than that. From a Colombia and Paraguay, you're right, that wasn't in the December pack, and I'm sure in the next December pack, there'll be even more of some sort. That's just the nature of Kingspan. We have a presence already in Colombia, 1 manufacturing plant in Cartagena, and we expect to build 1 over the next 12 or 18 months in Cali. That's, that's really very encouraging. Paraguay, we've a smaller commercial presence, which currently is supplied out of Brazil, and we expect to invest in there, likely greenfield, but potentially, potentially an investment in, in the form of a JV either. Concurrently, we're looking at Chile as well. We see. That's all insulated panels, so we haven't even got into any of the other technologies in Latin America, but we see it as a very, very interesting emerging opportunity for us. Thank you very much. Just the margin in South America, is it the same as the overall insulated panel at the group level, or is there, like, a mixed difference, given, I think in Brazil, it's quite consolidated as well? No, no, it's, it's actually broadly similar. Great. Thank you very much, guys. Thanks, Yves. Our next question comes from Harry Goad from Berenberg. Harry, your line's now open. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good morning. I've got 2 questions, please. You've obviously talked a fair bit around raw materials, price, cost movement, but I imagine you're still seeing some, some quite considerable inflation in things like wages and overhead. Can you give us a feel for how the if you thought about almost in terms of sort of total cash cost on a, on a constant volume basis, how that is progressing, how you think that ends up through the year? Then the second one is just coming back to that, that point you're just talking about in terms of the global organic expansion. Can you talk a little bit to what you think the longer term opportunities are and what that can contribute to the group's growth on an annual basis? Is it right to think it's maybe 1 to 2% contribution to group revenue growth on average over the medium term? Thanks. Yeah, just on the, just on the, the, the inflation and the overall, overhead base, there, there, there are inflationary pressures in, in areas like payroll and other overheads. But against that, we do have some deflation, as we've outlined in key raw materials. Overall, that's something that we have to manage through our margins. Yeah, you'll have seen, the H1 of the year, we managed to add 20 basis points to margin. We view these things from a margin perspective in terms of how we manage them. Not gonna get into the specifics of what the level of inflation is in terms of the overhead base. But what I would say is that the inflationary pressures that we were contending with 12 months ago, were a multiple of what we're, of what we're dealing with now. We're not, we're not quite back to normal, but we're, we're back to a, a situation that is, I suppose, more straightforward to manage from a volatility perspective. In terms of, of, of the organic sales growth that's implied by all of the developments that we've had, I mean, we've said before that in a flat construction macro, you know, we, we ought to be able to grow our sales by 3%-4% beyond that. Clearly, the capacity plans that we've outlined this morning, are, are part of that in, in markets and regions where we have a need for, for that capacity to, to enable that growth. Fantastic. Very clear. Thank you. Thanks, Harry. Thanks, Harry. Our next question comes from Jonathan Coubrough from Numis. Johnny, your line's now open. Please go ahead. Thanks, and good morning. Could I ask just on the US panels market, whether you now see that as being a structurally high margin market due to consolidation? I'd be grateful if you could give any context on how margins there do you compare to panels within Europe? What, what I would say is that it is a, it's a higher margin market. Not, not going to, again, not going to comment on the specifics of it, but it is a, it's a higher margin market than the division overall. We've also seen, you know, ongoing progression in industry penetration for insulated panels across the U.S. and North America, that's continuing unabated. A lot of the sectors that are seeing, you know, very significant levels of growth currently, penetration of insulated panel is actually quite high in those categories because there's a demand for super efficiency in terms of the method of construction. You know, all of that is positive from a margin perspective. Thanks very much. Thanks, Jonathan. Hello? Our next question comes from Alexander. Alexander, please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Alexander Craeymeersch from Kepler Cheuvreux here. Just had some questions on the, on the competitive space, and then also maybe relating to M&A. First of all, now that the energy prices are coming off, do you expect some more competition from mineral wools? And considering that these are somewhat interchangeable, interchangeable with your PIR boards for flat roofs, I was just wondering to which extent this contributed to the volume losses in the board business. The second question would be, with regarding to the, the nice improvement in the order intake for the insulation panels, could you may be shed some color on which type of projects do you are boosting these orders? Regarding M&A, I mean, we have seen a competitor of yours divest the legacy business and now has some cash on the balance sheet. Just, could you maybe light a bit, or shed some light, on how that does affect your bidding towards some targets, and if that becomes a bit more competitive? That's, that's my three questions. Thank you for that. Okay, Alexander, just on, on your first point. Yeah, naturally, energy has come off considerably, which, which does affect the, the cost base to some extent of mineral wool. We haven't seen any drift across to that material at all. Like, naturally, we're benefiting significantly from it, given that we procure 120,000 tons of it. So that's, that's, that's really been an advantage. But in terms of, you know, industry penetration or market share movements, we haven't seen any, because bear in mind, the, the cost base of the insulation board, as well as the other technologies we have, has drifted a lot. Like, all you need to do is look at the MDI indices to understand the way that's gone over the last 6 months. I'd say no change in the competitive position of those 2 materials necessarily. Then from a, from an M&A perspective, I think I know what you mean, and like, you know, there, there have been some actually hard to fathom multiples been knocked around the industry over the last year or 2. You know, we've been part of those processes and, you know, would have pulled out on, on a number of them because it just doesn't make return sense to us. It just means that we have to be, we have to be just a little bit more agile, and pick where we want to pursue, and just be, be selective about what we do. That's, that's exactly the way we've been, we've been carrying on. In order to intake what type of projects are you seeing that's impacted? Yeah, we kind of asked and answered those earlier, big projects around tech and EV- Oh, yeah. In the U.S. in particular. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Alexander. Bruno? Okay, thank you. Thanks, Bruno. That, that finishes it up for us. Thanks everybody for joining, and we'll be in touch over the coming days. Good morning, everybody. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye.