Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the BHEL Q4 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Darwin. Good evening. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to Q4 FY 2024 and FY 2024 earnings conference call of BHEL. We are very pleased to have with us today Mr. K. Sadashiv Murthy, Chairman and Managing Director, and BHEL's management team to discuss the results. We'll start with brief opening remarks from CMD, sir, following which we'll open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir. Good evening, everybody. I'm K. Sadashiv Murthy, CMD, BHEL, with additional charge of Director of Finance. I have with me Sri Jai Prakash Srivastava, Director, ER&D; Sri Krishna Kumar Thakur, Director, HR; Sri Tajinder Gupta, Director, Power; Mrs. Bani Varma, Director, Industrial Systems and Products. Also, along with me, my senior colleagues from business sectors, finance, and corporate strategic management are also present here. A very warm welcome to all of you. The Indian economy is growing steadily, leading to a robust growth of power infrastructure sector. BHEL is also aligning itself to be a part of the nation's growth journey. Let me start by giving you the highlights of our order book for FY 2023-2024. We have received orders of 9.6 GW last year from our power sector division, totaling to around INR 52,000 crore. All these thermal sets are of 800 MW rating. Our industry sector segment also witnessed the highest ever order book inflow of INR 22,000 crore. With the above, we recorded BHEL's highest ever order book of around INR 78,000 crore in FY 2023-2024. Some of the major orders which we have received last year are: EPC orders for Talabira, Yamunanagar, Singrauli, and Lara supercritical power plants. BTG package for Mahan and Raigarh supercritical power plant from Adani Group. Electromechanical package of the 2.8 GW Dibang hydropower project, the largest in the country. Spares and services business of around INR 3,500 crore. 80 Vande Bharat trains for railways. 20 super rapid gun mounts for naval ships. 10 extra high voltage substation packages, power transformers, and the other equipment in the transmission business. Gas turbine rotors and parts from UAE in the international business. Also, remote monitoring and diagnostic services from BPCL Mumbai in Industry 4.0 solutions segment. Now, coming to our accomplishments in the project execution field in FY 2023-2024. We have completed execution of over 7 GW projects globally last year. Out of this, 5 GW of power generation capacity was added to the grids, and around 2 GW was commissioned and synchronized. Some of the key achievements include: inauguration of Unit 2, 660 MW of Maitree Super Thermal Power Project in Bangladesh, jointly by the Honorable Prime Ministers of India and Bangladesh; dedication of North Karanpura and Telangana thermal power plants to the nation by the Honorable Prime Minister of India; capacity addition for Unit 3 of Kakrapar Atomic Power Project; trial operation of Unit 1 of Palamuru-Rangareddy Hydro Project. In transportation, supply of 22 electric locomotives of 600 HP to the Indian Railways. In solar business, commissioning of 100 MW Raghanesda Phase Two and 8 MW Tamarind Falls, Mauritius solar project. In the new growth areas, successful implementation of flexible operations for Adani's Raigarh project, WBPDCL Sagardighi, and Tata Trombay plants. Talking about our diversification efforts and strategic partnerships, we are continuously updating ourselves and forging alliances and partnerships for addressing new business opportunities. Some of them are joint venture agreement with Coal India Limited for setting up a coal to ammonium nitrate plant of 2,000 TPD. Strategic partnership agreement with HIMA Middle East, Dubai, for addressing railway signaling business. Now, let me give you the highlights of our financial performance. BHEL's revenue from operations for FY 2024 is INR 23,893 crore, an increase of 2% over the last year. Profit after tax for FY 2024 is INR 260 crores. Thank you all once again for joining the conference. The house is now open for the interaction, please. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Jonas Bhutta from Birla Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Couple of questions. Firstly, sir, can you list out the list of projects, power projects, that are expected to be awarded or tendered out, over the next one to two years? If you can list each project and what's the size... That's my first question. Then I have two more. You want to know the list of projects which are, which will be awarded? Yeah. Which are in the pipeline, can be awarded in the current financial year or probably the year after. So FY 2025, 2026, if at all you can do this. Okay. This, it will start with one Darlipali stage two and Sipat, super thermal power plant, stage two, stage three. That is from NTPC. Second one is Koradi 11 and 12. One more is Singareni, then Neyveli Thermal Power Station, second expansion, Ukai 7, Kodarma phase two, Korba West, Amarkantak 6, and Satpura 12. Last two are from MPPGCL, Madhya Pradesh. So these are the power plant projects which are in line and tenders are either they are out or they are coming out in the market. So the total pipeline in terms of megawatt and rupees crores would be how much, sir? Around 10 GW. Okay, got it. And- Most of the projects are 800 MW, few are of 660. Got it. So my second question was on, on, the balance sheet. So while we've won almost INR 75,000 crore-INR 78,000 crore of orders, and most of, and half of them came in the first half of the year, why is it not reflective in the customer advances? So I'm seeing your cash flow statement, and there is just a change of roughly INR 1,200 crore on the customer advance, where one would have assumed that this INR 78,000 crore of orders would have come with some, some, bit of advances. In fact, I think more than INR 3,000 crore of advances have been received last year. And all these advances and orders are come in the later part of the year, means second, third, and fourth quarter only. Understood. So lastly, if you can give a break-up of the contract assets and, receivables, as you do every quarter. Thank you, and that's my final question. One moment. Okay, as on 31 March 2024, our trade receivables are approximately INR 8,000 crore, and contract assets are approximately INR 27,000 crore. So total is INR 34,000 crore-INR 35,000 crore. INR 22,000 crore is the contract assets, right? Contract assets are INR 26,700. Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ranadeep Sen from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So can you throw some light on the FGD opportunity that we are sitting on? Do you, as per some reports, there's a 97 GW to be ordered, which is a INR 60,000 crore opportunity. Can you share some insights on this opportunity and how BHEL is shaping up for this? You're talking specifically to FGD projects? Yes, sir. FGD. Desulfurization. Mr. Sisodia, our ED, Power Sector Marketing, will speak out. Sure. Sir, approximately 130 gigawatt of the FGD projects has been tendered out. Out of this, BHEL share is roughly 30% also. State sector has also come up forward also, but majority of the state sectors are yet to give a tender inquiries for setting up the old power station, sir. Am I clear? Sure, sir. So my question was, there's a report that mentions that 97 GW is yet to be ordered, and the opportunity size is almost INR 50,000 crore. So wanted to understand, in the coming years, are we looking at tapping this opportunity, big opportunity? Yeah, yeah, definitely. As you rightly said, around 100 GW will be bidding out will be there, and that's what our executive director was telling us. Normally, earlier, it used to be a market share of around 30%, and we are targeting this area. Sure, sir. Sure, sir. So my next question is, I think you rightly pointed out, we bagged the last year the Super Rapid Gun Mount order, and kind of forayed into the defense space. What are our thoughts for this defense space? I understand we've kind of explored an SPV or a JV with Germany's Rheinmetall. How are we progressing in those SPVs and anything that you can share from a futuristic forward? One minute. Mrs. Bani Varma, our Director, I think she will talk. So in defense, what... Am I audible to you? Yes, sir, you are audible, sir. So in defense, I mean, there are certain initiatives. In fact, defense is an area that we are definitely focusing on. So like SRGM, you know that, now we have got a large volume of orders over the last one and a half years only. I mean, like, just to give you a sense of the orders we were getting, like, in 30 years, we've got orders for 44 guns, and in one and a half years, we have got orders for 38 guns. So that's the scale at which we are looking at the SRGM business. Other than that, what we are looking at in the defense space is, one is air defense guns. That's a very major, big ticket opportunity for which we have already responded by the army. We have already submitted our bid also for this. Here we have to give a prototype, so for which we have tied up with OEM, again, a European OEM, and along with them, we are preparing a prototype which will be delivered in this financial year. On basis of that, I mean, the technical trials will field trials will take place, and we are hopeful that we will be successful in that. So that's a very big area, that next opportunity that we are looking at. Other than that, there is marine gas turbines. Again, that's one area for the Navy. This is a new area for us, where we have already again tied up with another company in Europe, and we have already submitted our bid for these, and hopefully this financial year or probably early next financial quarter, this bid is going to be open. Other than that, we are looking at strategic equipment for the Navy. I will not be able to say explain exactly in much detail because it's very highly confidential. But that is one area where BHEL is doing everything by its own. That is the engineering competence that we have, that is being used by the Indian Navy to develop some very unique kind of a one-of-a-kind strategic equipment that we are working on. That's a very big area that we are looking at. And other than that, in the Air Force, we have got orders from HAL for 83 compact heat exchangers for the LCA Tejas Mark one. Another 93, I think, HAL has got an order for which they'll be ordering on us. So this is a very good opportunity that our Vizag plant is doing. So these are the main areas that we are looking at. So we have been... I mean, Rheinmetall, I am not sure, but, we are definitely looking at different partnerships to carry this business forward. Sure. Thank you, and appreciate the elaborate answer. So my last question, we were exploring a tie-up with TERI in the battery energy storage system. Any update that you can share in that regard? We had this, we are executing, in fact, an order of, I think, 4 MW or so, 400, 4, I'm not exactly very sure, but three substations with TERI, we are already under execution. So they will be, I think, they'll be completed, I think, in this quarter. So, but that is only for the, specifically for three substations. Other than that, we are trying to now, you know, because this is a big opportunity, I mean, like 47 GW is expected by 2030. So we are now exploring this, trying, talking to other customers so that we can, you know, do our EPC packaging for the best projects and address this opportunity in that manner. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your answer and wishing you all the best for the next quarter. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Girish from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yes, sir, thanks for the opportunity. I just had two clarification question. This ECL provisioning accounting change that has happened, which is INR 699 crore for 9 months ending. If you had continued the same accounting practice, is it fair to assume that it will be another INR 200-250 crore of provisioning? And that was one question. And the second one was that, for the year ending FY 2024, if you can break up the total provisions and any breakup of provisions that you can share for the full year basis. See, this provisioning details, they are already in the balance sheet. Total impact is INR 10,893 crore in the financial year, and balance details we will share offline. Okay, fair, sir. And just one follow-up. In terms of your order backlog currently, can you quantify for us, like, what quantum of your power projects have a proper pass-through in terms of raw materials? So that we can understand the underlying profitability and in the foreseeable future, how that can turn out to be. We see, as of first April, our order outstanding is around INR 1,31,600 crore, approximately. Out of which, basically, power sector orders are INR 92,559 crore. And out of these ninety-two thousand, 52,000 crore orders are received in this financial year, means whatever previous financial year. Is it fair to say that? Around INR 40,000 crore. So fair to say that INR 52,000 will have raw material pass-through variation clauses in place and the balance INR 40,000 could be at legacy prices? No, no. See, normally, we, whenever we book the order, we, both the, both type of order comes to us: firm price contracts as well as PVC. So it will be a mix of things. Whatever order book we are executing, that also is having some price variation clause. And this INR 52,000 also, there is a mix of things. Firm price contracts are also there, and price variation clauses are also there. So can you break it up? Like, how much would we having a, you know, complete pass-through? We don't have that figure. We don't have that figure. We can share afterwards. Readily, we don't have that figure. Okay. In the next 12 months, which is FY 2025, how should we think about order bookings with your non-power segment? What is the aspiration here in terms of, realistically, in terms of how much order inflow can you have, and any large orders that you want to call out on the non-power side? Our basic long-term perspective is we want, like, if you see the last previous year, it is 70/30 ratio. 65% or 65%-70% is from power sector, and balance is from industry sector. And our perspective is we want to go for 50/50 percent, 50% from the power sector, 50% from the industry sector. And from industry sector as, our main areas will be transmission, transportation, defense. These will be the three major areas which we are targeting. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Girish. Thank you. The next question is from the line of, Madan Gopal from Sundaram Alternates. Please go ahead. Hello. Able to hear me, sir? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mr. Madan Gopal. Sir, first on just the previous caller, you mentioned that you are targeting railways and transmission. If you can elaborate a bit on both these segments, on what kind of products that you'll be supplying to. I understand in railway, you got the order for Vande Bharat, where you'll be supplying the traction motors and other propulsion-related products. Do you get a similar opportunity for the rail coach factories also, the ICF and other coach factories also? Yeah, yeah. We are having... See, we are already supplying propulsion, traction motors, all those things to all the railways. That is the existing business itself. And in Vande Bharat, these are our input materials. You expect in the future when the Vande Bharat orders increase, you get additional orders from these coach factories? Definitely, definitely, definitely. In transmission, there is a large momentum in orders coming through. What are our scope of work here, particularly in the 765 kV transformer? What kind of market share that we aim to touch? Mrs. Bani Varma will, yeah. No, in the transmission is definitely going to be a big area, especially with, you know, the 500 GW of RE transmission also going to kick in. So the main area what we are seeing here is the HVDC. In fact, the high value and high margin, not high margin, I would say certain margin areas are, you know, this HVDC. And, we are seeing, over the next two years, four major HVDC projects which are going to be tendered out. The first one is the Fatehpur-Bhadla. That has already, the bid has been submitted, this month itself. Then after that, there is another second one before which the tender is also out, that is Khavda-Nagpur, again, for which, we are submitting our bid. And then there are two other projects, VSC based HVDC projects, which are, Leh-Kaithal and one, South Olpad, which are also on the anvil. For the first two projects, we have already tied up with our partners, with an international partner, with an OEM, and we have already submitted our bid for the first project. For the second one also, we are in advanced stage. So this is, from the HVDC side. Other than that, we are also looking at, you know, the substation for, 400 as well as 765 kV substations and complete substations, as well as we are also doing our, you know, giving loose products like our transformers, etcetera, GIS, AIS based, equipment, all those are also being supplied. So yes, this is a big opportunity, and these are the items that will be supplying there. Thank you. And, my second question is on the execution front. If you look at number of losses, particularly in the Balance of Plant space in the power generation, a lot of players have left the space. Now, as we got the new orders in the last one year, how are we planning to avoid delays in execution, getting into, say, execution of the new projects that we got? Because many of these players, particularly if I look at the coal handling plant, a lot of these players who used to be there are now no more interested in doing the EPC project of those. How are we going to handle this scenario, as we start executing the new projects? No, you are very true. See, our first and the foremost thing is we want more and more vendors, new vendors to join. So for that, we are full dedicated teams are working to bring the more and more new vendors. And at the same time, as you rightly said, people who have left the thing also, we are having a continuous interaction with them, so that, while interacting, we can say that why they have left the job or whatever is there, we want to handhold them, and we should bring them in. So we are working on both the things. Existing vendors who are there, who have now stopped working, we are interacting continuously with them, and we want more and more new vendors should come. Otherwise, as you rightly said, so much order book, we have to have a partner. I would just- Yeah, go ahead. Sir, we are also looking at our policies to bring a lot of comfort for our vendors. Exactly, that is the main point. In the past, we have missed these orders, one, lack of orders. Second, cash flow used to be an issue, and also margins used to be a problem. Have we built in the new project sufficiently enough to address these issues for our vendors, so that we will provide them sufficient margins and cash flows for them to come back into the system? See, that's why I said that we are, we are working on both the things. As far as new vendors are concerned, we are trying to get a new vendors and the existing vendors also, we are trying to interact with them, what were the issues, why they are there, and we are trying to bring them back. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Thank you. Have a nice day. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Khadija Mantri from Capri Global. Please go ahead. Yeah, good evening, sir. So my first question is that the government plans to add 88 GW by 2030 on the thermal side. So by when do you think these orders, all these orders would be awarded, and how much has already been tendered out, and what is left? And also, do you think that we can assume 6-7 GW on an annual basis? See, all these orders, what government plan is by 2032, they want to finish this ordering of 80 GW, 80+ GW, whatever is there. And, what we are expecting is, every year there will be definitely around, ten, ten GW ordering will be there. So to have a breakup, 10 GW is already tendered out, 27 GW is under, tendering, and after that, 40 more GW. So what we are expecting is in the next few years, every year there will be around 10-12 GW ordering will be there, and by 2032, this ordering will be completed. Okay, sir. And so the installation, the capacity installation would go beyond 2032? Exactly. Ordering will be done by 2030-2032. So by 2032, this capacity installation will be completed. Okay, okay, I got it. And second, sir, in industrial, I see that our EBIT margins have dropped. So, is there any reason, or it is just project-specific, and we shouldn't read too much into it? No, no. It is basically due to some provisions it got like that. It is nothing, much to be read into it. It is just, means in this financial year, due to some provisions, it got like that. Okay, sir. And also, for Vande Bharat train, trains. Pardon? Sorry, sir, I could not follow you. No, no. It is project specific, as you rightly said, it was due to some projects. Okay, okay. So on consistent basis, how should we look at EBIT margin for the industry sector as such? See, we cannot give the guidance on EBITDA margins, basically. Oh, okay. Okay, sir. And also, sir, the revenue growth has been- Product profile of industry sector, there is a huge variety of products are there. Products as well as projects, which is having transportation, defense, transmission, various products. So that's why we cannot say that which line will be how much, EBITDA margins will be there. Actually, it is a mixed basket for them. Mixed basket. Okay, sir. Are we—I mean, can you give a sense about the execution in FY 2025, since we have a large order book now, and in the past 2 years, the revenue has been consistent at about INR 24,000 crore. So this year, can we see a decent growth? See, basically, as far as capacity addition is concerned, around 10 GW capacity addition we will be doing. And, exactly, means we cannot say what will be the revenue guidance, but definitely we are targeting some INR 12-15 crore, 12-15% CAGR year-on-year, because we are having an order book, whatever order book we are having, we have to execute also. This we are trailing, by seeing the age of the orders as well as the execution potential. Okay, sir. And also, just one last question. Vande Bharat train order, the execution has started from BHEL side for the propulsion systems? You see, first prototype, there it was around 24 months is the first prototype, so it is not yet happened. Okay. Okay. The process is on. Basically, it is under manufacturing at various places at BHEL. Bhopal, Jhansi, Bengaluru, it is under the process of manufacturing. Okay. As scheduled. Okay, sir. So the revenue recognition, you are saying, would take another 18-24 months? Yes, yes. From June 25- From June 25, contractual delivery will start. From June 25, means next year onwards. Okay, okay, sir. Got it. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Subhadip Mitra from Nuvama. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. So, two questions from my side. Firstly, if I look at your overall contract assets and trade receivables, how much of these would be for the older NTPC plants which are under execution, and by when do we look at these older dues getting cleared? See, we can share this information offline because customer specific, we will not be in a position to share. But just, an overall idea as to how much is- I want to say that whatever older, NTPC projects are there, we are targeting the execution by next financial year, all those projects, will be executed. Whatever earlier NTPC projects we were having, we are targeting that everything execution will be finished by next financial year. As in by end of FY 25, by March of- Very true. Very true. Understood. And typically the cash inflow for those projects, it follows within 1-2 quarters? What are the payment terms? Within a quarter, we can say. We can within a quarter. Basically, all those, if some of the things are milestone related, so we finish the milestone in one particular quarter, next quarter we'll get the cash. I understand. So you should be certainly looking at your cash flows and your working capital situation getting better by March? 100%. True. I agree to. So secondly, with regard to the balance of plant, right? So while BTG is the bread and butter for BHEL, I understand much of the balance of plant also BHEL has started manufacturing in-house. But are there any key components which are still not manufactured in-house, for which there is still a dependence on, you know, outsourced vendors or vendor base? Any particular components that you would like to highlight? Yeah. Our, our Director Projects Power, Mr. Tajinder Gupta will talk. See, as such, for balance of plants, as of yet, we are not exactly manifesting anything to in totality the systems. Like DM plant, AHP, CHP, we are dependent on the, still on the, other OEMs. So, and, and, and future also we, see, we are working on, some, it's a very primitive space. We are thinking of doing ash handling in-house, but I think that's still in primitive stage and not in sight. So as to BoP balance plant, in totality is, normally outsourced kind of thing. So we are still manufacturing BTG only. Okay. What about the ESP, sir, the Electrostatic Precipitator? That is a part of BTG, and it is getting manufactured at Ranipet. Understood. So if I understand you correctly, the, and what a DM plant, those are the key areas of outsource dependence. See, other system which are adding nowadays, like SCR, your FGD, FGD, SCR things, that's our own manufacturing. But as far as the pure BOP, which we considered earlier also- Mm-hmm. like, this thing, again, as a DM plant, AHP, CHP, main things- Right. that we are not doing. That we are outsourcing only. Do you see any challenges in terms of the vendor base over there? Like, I think one of the earlier questions is also around that, that probably, you know, many of the vendors over the last decade have moved out of these businesses. So do you see this as becoming a hurdle or a big challenge, or you see that, you know, most of the people will come back or? Okay, let me answer. As the challenge is there, but I think we are working on it. We have formed a corporate, central procurement cell also for that in Noida. So we are doing things centrally. We are, we are relaxing our, pre-qualifying consortium also, and we are relaxing our terms also. We are making liberally ensure that financial cash flow is better than earlier. So I think things, actions have been taken, and we are getting real positive response. People who were away, now they are coming back. So rather in previous inquiries, we are getting very better response. Many vendors are coming to us for the inquiries. So I think, challenge is there, but things will improve. Surely! I understand. And sir, lastly, with regard to the, let's say, the larger NTPC bulk orders that we are winning, one, are you seeing those having the commodity cost pass-through clause typically? Because I believe all, all NTPC orders would probably have similar terms. And secondly, are you seeing better terms in terms of payments and advances for such orders? Yeah, definitely now, I mean, earlier there were one or two turnkey projects were there, but now we are seeing the change in payment terms. Sure. What we are getting now is with the change in payment terms and all with the variation clause. Perfect, sir. That, that answers all my questions. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. Could you tell us the executable order backlog in power and industry out of the total order book of INR 131,000 crore? Are there any slow-moving contracts or non-moving contracts? See, in INR 131,600 crore, roughly around INR 7,000-INR 8,000 crore are non-moving orders. Balance around INR 124,000 crore are all executable orders. If you want a breakup of those things, around 88,000 is from power sector, rather 92,000 is from power sector, and around 31,000-32,000 are, is in industry sector. Sure. So what is the, historically, you used to share the MOU target or excellent rating in terms of revenue. Could you please share it for FY 2025 or give us a sense of your MOU target? This is still to be finalized, and what we are expecting is by the month of June or July, we'll be signing the MOU with DPE. It is not yet finalized. It is under discussions. Okay. What was the net provision in FY 2024? Around one- In the P&L. INR 93 crores. Huh? Net pro- Excuse me. One moment, one moment. INR 1,037 crore. INR 1,037 crore. This was a net impact on your PNL? One minute, Mr. Sumit. Yes. You are asking net vacation? No, no. Net, net, net creation of provision, you know, after, so not the gross number, net number, which is impacting your other expenses in the P&L. 103. 10, 1037. Yes. Got it. Got it. And just, just trying to understand, you know, this was a year of, you know, low single digit top line growth. Your net cash from operating activities was -INR 3,712 crore, versus -INR 740.7 crore in FY 2023. So basically, the cash flow seems to suggest that your, you know, receivables, as listed in the cash flow filed on BSE, have gone up by close to INR 2,469 crore. Your payables have come down by INR 962 crore. And despite having a record year on order inflows, the advances have gone up only by INR 1,244 crore. I mean, given that this was a record year of order inflows, you know, I know previous participant had also asked, but this is not making sense to me. I know there has been big focus on reducing trade receivables, so I don't understand. You know, could you please give a more detailed answer on how the working capital performance is? You are very right, Sumit Ji. Basically, what happened, that major order booking, whatever happened in the last quarter, February, March, we started getting the advances in this financial year. See, most of the ordering, as I was telling earlier also, ordering happened in Q3 and Q4. We have collected the advance more than INR 3,000 crore this financial year, this previous financial year. And, major of, one of whatever ordering which has happened in the last quarter in February and March, and, I, and, the, those advances we started getting in this Q1 of this financial year. And because advances were now and not like earlier, that along with the order itself they will give the advance. Now, what, people started giving is advance, initial advance will be very less. After that, some progressive payments will be there, like after ordering of some equipment or like that. So all those things we started getting in Q1. That is the reason that you are finding that after so much ordering, with order booking also, still advances are not like that. It is milestone linked. So, has there been a tightening of the clause on advances or in general, a tightening of clause on award of contracts, which we should be aware of? No, no, no tightening. Nothing like that. No. Nothing like that. Please speak out for current- Rather, this is what happened. If whatever, we got a better payment terms. What I would like to say is, I mean projects which we have got in, suppose February and March, and if they are having some initial milestones, that after ordering we will give so much 5% advance. Those orderings we could complete in the first quarter, in April, and then we got the advance. Like that it is happened. Okay. And on payables, why have the payables come off? The payables have come down. Come down by about- The payables have come down, which is not helping your working capital because, you know, No, no. If No, no. If you see, if you see, you are seeing the net payables have come down. If you see last year, our, cash outflow towards material is highest. Okay. So that is what we will be getting the execution in this Q1 and Q2. So last year, if you see the absolute terms, my payables, means my cash outflow towards material, is highest. It is to have the vendors. Okay. So, also, you know, briefly on profitability, if I look at gross margins, let's forget about the provisions which are non-linear. This is the seventh straight year from FY 2018, where your gross margin has been declining on a year-on-year basis. So FY 2018, I mean, depending on how you calculate, you are at 44%, you know, you are at 29.7% in FY 2024. So basically, in your calculation, look at the trend. Last seven years, gross margin has been coming off year on year. So is this the bottom? Is this trajectory going to turn, or is this the new normal? No, this trajectory will be going to turn. That is going to happen because? See, because see, that's what I want to say. In the last few years, two to three years, the commodity prices and all those things which have gone in the COVID period, our supply chain got disturbed and there was a delay in the execution also. So all these things, when we start executing, and as I said earlier also, we are trying to bring the new, more and more vendors. Whatever whoever vendors have left the field, we are trying to bring them back. So once we talk all these, we work, start working on all these things, then automatically vendors will all... We, vendors are also discussing that we will give a better prices. So we are trying to handle the vendors so that we will have a better prices. We will improve the execution also, so that all these will contribute to the improved gross margin. Okay, and finally, the 10 GW of order prospects- We request you to please rejoin the queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Koundinya Nimmagadda from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions from my end. So starting with the nameplate capacity, I mean, we all know that 40 GW and 20 GW nameplate capacities, but if the industry were to execute 10 GW per year... What is on-ground capacity and realistic capacity that, A, BHEL has, and B, industry as a whole is, has? If you can throw some color on that, please. See, BHEL, I want—I would like to confirm that we are having a capacity of around 10 GW every year. Year-on-year, we can do it. Earlier, we have demonstrated up to 12 GW also in previous years, but we are, what we are seeing is, we can always, have a capacity addition of 10 GW. What is the total capacity that you have, sir? I mean, 10 gigawatt you can, if you can execute, and what is the total capacity, BTG plus, the BOP, if you can put together? BOP, as we were telling, we are taking from the market. So BTG only- Yeah. We are manufacturing inside the plant. Yes, I get that. The reason I ask you this question is that, you know, as you rightly alluded, some of the vendors have left. So in that context, what is the realistic- So we are not, we are not foreseeing any issue in that. As Director Power was telling, we are already reached out to the vendors. Vendors are now coming, and last 2, 3 months, what we are seeing is more and more vendors are quoting our tenders. So we are not foreseeing much of an issue. For the industry, where would that number be, sir, against what we covered? I don't know, means, the other Okay. Sure, sir. Sir, my second question is on the, the pro- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, please. Sir, my second question is on the profitability front. I mean, this was asked in multiple different forms earlier as well. I mean, for the new orders, I mean, what is it that you're... I mean, what are the different kinds of checks that you are building so that, you know, A, the orders are profitable at PAT level, at EBITDA level as well, and also at cash flow level, I mean, as opposed to working capital. If you can throw some color, because 10 gigawatt is a great number, but ultimately it should also result into cash flows. So if you can provide some more color on that, please. See, it is a one. I want to say in one line, it is a timely execution. That is a way, one of the major thing, what we are seeing, if we— See, as I have made it clear, that payment terms have improved by customers, so now it is only question of timely execution. Automatically, profitability will increase and cash flow also will increase. Well, if I were to ask you the other way around, I mean, from out of India, every INR 100 crore of EBITDA, how much will be in the cash flow from operations be? Or the CFO, EBITDA to CFO conversion, if you were to look at it that way, how does it stand? Not give that, guidance. Yeah. We cannot, sorry, we cannot give that guidance. Not the guidance, I mean, what is it that you're targeting? I'm just trying to... Because some of your industry peers, you know, cite the guidance and the payment terms as well. Discuss offline, but we cannot be talking, that- BHEL is a very complex organization with a lot of products. So- It cannot be ascertained like this. Sure, sir, no problem. Thank you very much. No, straight answer or simple answer to your question. Sorry. Sure, sir, no problem. Thank you very much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abinit Anand from 360 ONE Asset. Please go ahead. Abinit, the line for you has been unmuted. You may proceed with your question. As I know- Hello? Hel- Hello, can you hear me? Yeah. Sir, you talked about 10 gigawatts tenders, and you did name some projects as well. Just trying to know, this 10 gigawatt you expect in FY 2025, or what is the time period for that? Yeah, FY 25 only. FY 25. In a second, in one of the other questions you talked about 27 GW is under tendering. Fair to assume that, apart- 27 GW is under construction. Okay, sorry, sorry. And apart from this 10 GW that you talked, what could, what could be the- Is tendered out. Yeah, I understand that. So for 2026, 2027, I mean, you are confident that there could be another 10 GW on an annual basis, right? Yes, yes, definitely. That is the minimum thing, because they want to complete the ordering by 2027. Okay. And last one, just on the gross margin side, and one of the participants did, you know, ask on that. Just trying to understand on a quarterly, if you see, first nine months, our gross margins was tight, you know, lower. This quarter, especially Q4, it seems to be better off than the first nine months. So is Q4 a more representative or the yearly number more representative? Just trying to understand. There is almost a 300 basis point. Okay, I will say yearly. Okay. So the yearly number is more representative for, for future. You are very, point is very correct that Q4 is, so we are trying to even it out also as per our operation. So your guidance should be yearly. Okay, thanks. Those were my questions. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sai Siddhartha Pasupuleti from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, am I audible? Yes, please. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. So there has been a few restatements of the financial statements in the quarter date. I just wanted to ask, what would be the effect of the same incrementally in future years, as in how to take this in terms of the way we look at other expenses? So basically, in future, it is a, it is a one-time thing. We don't foresee anything in future. ... Right, sir. So how do we look at the other expenses? Because there has been a reclassification, right? Like, how do we look at the other expenses, as in, if we see the provisions, is it the right way to see the previous, before the reclassification or after the reclassification? Other expenses are more or less stable. Okay. Okay, thanks, sir. Okay. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now take the last question for today from the line of Sandeep Dixit from Arjav Partners. Please go ahead. Hi. Can you hear me, sir? Yeah, yeah. Yes, please. So, my understanding is that a large part of the problem that you faced over the last two years was because of legacy orders and the margin compression that happened in them because of the fixed price contracts. Now, can you give us any guidance, how much of those legacy orders are still pending on your books, and when will they go away? As I was telling, basically, around INR 50,000 crore order book is still there, which was earlier to this financial year. What we are expecting is, other than some defense, nuclear or this Vande Bharat, we will be finishing these orders by next financial year. Right. But you also mentioned that out of those 50,000, many of them have a pass-through. So I want to understand, what is out of the 50,000, how much would be still at 6%, 6.5%, 6.8% basis? That data is not readily available with me. You can take it from online, offline from my group. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you all for your patient hearing, and we had a really nice interactive session. Thank you once again for attending this session. Thank you all. Goodbye. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.