Ladies and gentlemen. G ood day, and welcome to the UFlex Limited Q2 FY 2024 and H1 FY 2024 results conference call, hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashvik Jain from ICICI Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Jain. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I would like to thank you all for taking the time to join us on UFlex Q2 H1 FY 2024 results conference call. From the company's leadership team, we have with us Mr. Rajesh Bhatia, Group President and CFO, UFlex Limited. We will open the call with opening remarks by management, followed by a Q&A session. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Rajesh Bhatia, Group President and CFO, UFlex Limited, to make the opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you for joining the call, UFlex Q2 earnings, earnings. I think the results are all before all of you. Just to summarize the things this quarter, we had a consolidated revenue of INR 3,389 crore, which is down 11.9% on a YoY basis, but up about 3.5% on a quarter-to-quarter basis, on a quarter-on-quarter basis. The EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 406 crore, which is up about 33.6% on a sequential quarter basis. But on a year-on-year basis, we are down 17.7%. And Q2 of FY 2023, we had an EBITDA of INR 493 crore. The EBITDA margin for this quarter, as we were expecting, is 12%, versus 9.3% in the June quarter. From the last year, it is still down by about 80 basis points. In September 2023, EBITDA was at 12.8%. And at a PAT level, we have recorded a profit of INR 63 crore in this quarter, versus loss of INR 416 crore in the last quarter, June quarter, which was basically on account of INR 382 crore of exceptional item emanating from the currency devaluation in Nigeria. And this is against INR 191 crore in the September 2023, you know, FY 2023, September Q2 quarter. So we are down 67% on a year-on-year basis. For the half year, the revenue is INR 6,668 crore, down by about 15.5%. EBITDA, 41.8% to INR 710 crore. And PAT is, for the H1, it is loss of INR 353 crore, down by 162%, versus INR 565 crore of PAT in the H1 on FY 2023. On the business side, I think the positives for the quarter is that packaging films volumes are up 6.6% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. And while on a year-on-year basis, we are down marginally by about 0.6%. The flexible packaging business has been very encouraging, and we are up 21% volumes on a quarter-on-quarter basis. And even on a year-on-year basis, we are up by about 7%. Liquid packaging, we are up year-on-year slightly by 0.2%. And, broadly, in our packaging business and aseptic packaging business, we continue to do very well. So India EBITDA, if we take the standalone EBITDA, we have achieved a better performance in this quarter versus on a year-on-year basis. And, hopefully, as we've said, that, you know, the markets in America are much better this quarter versus Q1, and we expect that by Q4, you know, the volumes will pick up. Europe remains an area of uncertainty. Driven by the lack of demand because of, you know, the issues relating to, you know, the energy costs as well as the EMIs, higher interest costs. And that's where, you know, the markets in Europe are still suffering from a very, very low demand. India also, while the demand is good, India has the issue of certain overcapacity at this point in time, which is driving the pricing margins and the pricing down. But, being an integrated play, I think we have reported a pretty decent performance for this quarter, much better than the Q1, with the EBITDA margin at about 12%. On the project side, I think there are three, you know, key projects where we have backward integration into the PET chips in India at Panipat, and which is about INR 587 crore CapEx investment. Which we plan to achieve the commercial production by the end of this fiscal or early part of April. In our Egypt facility, we achieve the commissioning by end of FY 2024 or maybe slightly earlier than that, but that is the plan there. The aseptic packaging bottleneck debottlenecking will, I think, we'll achieve by end of September 2024, towards end of September 2024. And that's where which will expand our capacity from 7 million to 12 million packs. Billion, sorry, 12 billion packs. So, overall basis, you know, India performance continues to be robust, driven by the volumes uptick in the packaging films, your flexible packaging and liquid packaging businesses. And in India, even the volumes on the packaging films business also continues to be good. The margins are the ones which are impacted. And overall, in the global markets, where we are only doing the packaging films business, there is a silver lining which is there in the Americas markets, and we push more volumes there. But European market still continues to be sluggish. So that's in nutshell, the quarter ending September 2024. There's nothing much to, you know, sort of, add on this quarter, except that, what we are seeing is if Q1 was the lowest point, in this, I think Q2 has shown, much better numbers, where the EBITDA is, up healthy by about 270 basis points, to 12%. And in terms of the absolute amount on a sequential quarter basis, the EBITDA is up about 33.6% to INR 406 crores. So that's the, you know, narrative from our side on the business, and we're happy to address any, any queries, any questions that, investors may have. Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may please press star and one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use only hands up while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. You may please press star and one to ask question at this time. The first question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from First Water Fund. Please go ahead. Yeah. So firstly, I wanted to understand as to what has led to the sharp increase in the overseas operations EBITDA margins. So if I see on a sequential basis, our margins in the overseas business has increased by roughly 700 basis points. Okay. So I think that is driven by about 6.6% volumes increase also. In the Egypt market and in the Nigeria market, there has been a duty imposed of 30%, additional import duty has been imposed, in the Egypt market, where there is a dollar shortage, and while the local manufacturers sell in the local currency, so they get a price advantage. And generally, overall, in the U.S. with the volumes also increasing, there is a better pricing this quarter. And overall, that has led to, you know, the much higher margins in the offshore business. Because the 30% additional import duty, this is in both Egypt and Nigeria? It is in Nigeria. In Nigeria only. Hello? Yes, in Nigeria. Only Nigeria, okay. And is this imposed in Q2 and only on BOPET or has this been imposed even on BOPP? No. BOPP, it was already there, because BOPP, there were plants in Nigeria already. So BOPP, but at ours is the first facility over there. So, you know, that has been imposed recently. Okay. So you, there were no aberrations or any one-offs in the overseas operations during Q2. Am I right? No, no, there is no one-offs or anything which has disrupted. Okay, how does the trend look going forward? So I think, we expect that, you know, the America markets will continue to improve in Q3 as well as in Q4. The Europe markets, I think we'll be able to give a better guidance only towards Q4. America, positive that we see that, you know, with the interest rates now getting frozen or on the path to go down, I think we'll see the better demand in the coming quarters, in that market. All other markets, including India, you know, continue to be strong on the volumes. In fact, by a very small margin, India again we produced the highest ever packaging films in India when I compared with Q1. But, there has been a better volume which has been achieved in the overseas markets, as I'd had stated, and a better margin coming from both Egypt as well as Nigerian facilities. Okay. The reason why I'm asking is because when I look at the peers, you know, obviously, we are not operating in the same geographies. But when I look at the peers' overseas operations, the EBITDA increase on a sequential basis is not as high as, like, you know, what we have reported. Just wanted to check for any one-offs. No, no. So there are no one-offs in there. It's all regular. Understood. Secondly, you know, what led to a reduction in the standalone business margins, again, on a sequential basis? Standalone business margin on a sequential basis is basically because this is a lean quarter for the aseptic packaging, so that seasonality comes into play in this quarter. Okay, okay. So for the second half, you know, based on a recent interview, you are expecting the margins to further improve in Q3 as well as Q4. So the improvement will mainly come from the overseas business, or you're expecting the overseas business to you know, kind of stabilize where we are currently and the Indian margins should improve. So where is the improvement... Uh going to come from? So, I'll just elaborate on what I had said elsewhere. So we are expecting that, you know, in Q3, if we can maintain, you know, the overall same 12%-12.5% margins, and Q4- Mm-hmm. We are definitely. We will have better volumes coming from the liquid packaging business, because that's what the season, that's where the season begins. In the winters, you know, the liquid packaging seasonality drives the volumes down as compared to Q4 and Q1. So Q2 and Q3, their volumes are not as much as you find them in Q1 and Q4. So Q4, definitely the margins will get a boost with the higher volumes coming from the aseptic packaging business. And flexible packaging is already doing well. You've seen a 21% Q1 QoQ growth in the volumes and a 7% YoY growth also in the volumes over there. So driven by these two factors, as well as the uptick that we've seen in Q2 in the U.S. markets, I think we confident of achieving a better growth in Q4 at least, even if we maintain the Q3 at the same level. Okay. On the Aseptic side, you know, you mentioned 60,000 tons capacity in the PPT. So on an equivalent basis, how much would this translate in number of packs? It will be. I'll have to get back, but say around 1 billion, 1.5 billion packs. Sorry, 60,000 would, 60,000 tons will translate into how much in billion packs? In billion packs, it will be about 1.5 billion. No, we are already having 7 billion pack capacity, right? So what I'm trying to understand is- For the quarter, for the quarter I'm saying. Okay. Okay, okay. All right. So, 60,000 would be roughly 6 billion packs, is, is what you are saying for, for the full year? I think I'll need more time. 1 billion, 1-1.5 billion packs. Right. That is more than 7 billion. Like, we have already got 7 billion packs online. Hmm. Ideally, how come you are saying 6.6 billion packs? I think I'll have to get into more insight on that before I reply to you on that, [MT] packs conversion and all that. I'll have to talk separately on that. Okay. We have also delayed the commissioning of the Aseptic expansion. Earlier it was scheduled by end of this year. Now we are expecting it to complete by Q2 of next year. What has led to the delay? So there is the equipment which is coming later in August, and that's where now we are expecting that will get commissioned by September or October. Okay, understood. Was there any volume contribution from Dharwad during Q2? So volume add-on from Dharwad is at the same level what we had in Q1. So that's where I said that in India, on a production volume in the packaging films business, there is a slight uptick in Q2 versus Q1. Not much further additions coming from being contributed from the Dharwad unit in this quarter versus the Q1. Okay, okay. And just wanted to understand on the packaging, flexible packaging segment. So you mentioned that 20% dollar increase in the volumes on a sequential basis. Now, sometime back, we launched the tubes product also in the same segment. And traditionally we have been laminates focused, you know, and then we started producing some different products, which are, let's say, a little bit higher value-added. So as of today, what is the mix in terms of, let's say, laminates and tubes, and relatable value added, if at all, you are doing? So if I were to split between the value added and the laminates, the laminate production volume this quarter was up 14.5% on a quarter-on-quarter basis, on a sequential quarter basis. While the value add, which is more of a holographic films and all that, there we almost had a 27% increase on a quarter-to-quarter basis, on a sequential quarter basis. Okay, on a blended basis, you are saying, 21% increase? On a blended basis, it was 21%. Okay. And what all products are included in this value-added segment? Sorry? Which all products are included in this value-added segment? I'm unable to hear you. Can you hear me now? Yeah, better. Yeah, I'm saying that, you know, what are the products that comes under this value-added segment? So you mentioned holographic films and, maybe a few parts to... So whether it is laminates or, you know, the spout packs and all that, that we all calculate under, take under laminates. Holographic films and all that, that we take under, you know, the value-added laminates products. Understood. All right. Thank you for answering the questions. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you. A reminder to the participants that you may please press star followed by one to ask questions at this time. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Private Limited. Please go ahead. In the presentation, somebody has said that your aspiration is to go, is to have a capacity of something like 1 million tons. And I see you are operating something like 250,000 or 275,000 per quarter, or maybe I think you are doing something like 600,000 per quarter, 600,000 per year. So where are you exactly on your capacity expansion, and what is your capacity utilization right now? Capacity utilization is given in the investor deck for each plant. Okay. It's already there, for each facility, each geography and all that, so you can- Okay. You can look at that. Yep. Yes, you're right that we currently doing on an average about 600,000 tons a year. Right. Which sizes of the packaging, packaging films, aseptic, all, all put together in terms of the MT. Now, currently, we are not, you know, sort of, while, you know, the aspiration is to do 1 million ton, as we said earlier, but the timing of that is still not, you know, sort of decided. And, presently, there are issues in Europe, America, India. So I think once a clear picture emerges, only then any view can be taken on, on any further capacity expansion. Okay. So on average, your, your, see, your total capacity is something like 800,000, 780,000. So you're operating weighted average basis around, say, 75%, right? Yes. Okay. Okay. On the value-added thing, are you thinking of any new line? I mean, No, we are not thinking of any new line on the value-added. We may do some small CapEx in terms of adding some of the machines for the value-added product. So there is no separate capacity that we are looking for in this. This PET expansion plan, the new PET plants that you're setting up in India as well as in Egypt, that is the, that is the final expansion. You are not thinking any other expansion right now, right? As of now, other than that, there is, there is nothing on the agenda. Okay. And can you please speak of your net debt level that you're expecting, say, next year and year after that? As I said that we currently have a net debt in this quarter of INR 4,750 crore. Yeah. If you see in India, we have not added any long-term borrowings. Whatever was added has been paid largely. Mm, mm. I think with about INR 500 crore, INR 550 crore amortization payments each year. Mm. So to that extent, the debt will keep on coming down every year. While there may be some more debt added in the set of our you know the new plants that we are with the PET chips plant that is being added. But I think amortization considering the I think the net debt will remain probably at the same levels within INR 5,000 crore. Within INR 5,000 crore. Okay. And say, 2026 onwards, it should start reducing, right? Because you don't have any other expansion or new project. Yes. Okay. And your amortization is coming to something like INR 550-INR 600, as you are saying? INR 550 per crore each year. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask questions, you may please press Star followed by one. We'll take the next question from the line of Chiranjeev Shah from Isha Securities Limited. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Yeah, sir, I have a couple of questions. First of all, before that, I would like to congratulate on great set of numbers. Thank you. Sir, the first question would be, like, could you please throw some light on the, like, sustainable initiatives of the business? Like, what are we planning in that? Sustainable initiatives, the first and foremost, what we have done in, in India and again in, Mexico, is that we've set up the PCR plants. So post-consumer recycled waste, which is largely the PET bottles we collect, and we convert that into PET chips, which is used in the making of the, BOPET, films. We've done that. We have also set up, multi-layer plastic recycling plants at, Poland. We have also developed the biodegradable, packaging films, you know, which is- which we see as a, as a real future. So I think, all these initiatives are forward-looking, and, we've made the investments today, especially in the PCR, setting up the PCR facility. Because as, you know, the consumers are becoming more conscientious about sustainability aspects and all that, we are looking at that market growing in a big way, especially on the PCR side and the biodegradable side. The biodegradable things will have to be, you know, we counting on that, governments will, you know, sort of, put policies and the laws in place to promote the use of the biodegradable films, because there is going to be a delta in the price between the normal films and the biodegradable films. But I think in the, with the ultimate objective of— so if today Europe has put, some kind of a duty on the, on the, on the packaging, on the plastics use, so, and, you know, when the consumers are paying that, it's that duty, is not put on the biodegradable films. It works the same way as the combustion engines and the EV engines, as we see in India today. There are lesser duties, there are lesser, registration fees on the EVs versus the normal combustion engines. So I think, aided by the policies, this is going to be the next big thing, in, in the packaging films business, the biodegradable packaging. Which means that if you throw the package after eating roadside, it will become a fertilizer at the end of its life cycle. Thank you, sir, for answering that question. So actually I, I do believe that sustainable packaging would be the future. But sir, on that front, would you guide us like at which facilities are we currently producing that? I mean, in how much quantity, and like revenue guidance for the same. So we've set up a small pilot plant in India, but a large plant we've set up in Mexico right now, a PCR facility, which is capable of producing 1,500 tons a month. And we've completed that recently. I think in the next year or so, we'll see almost 100% capacity utilization levels for that facility. Sir, also about the multilayered biodegradable packaging, like, what would be- So that is, so for that, you don't need any much investment. We made a small facility at Dubai for that. But that is like, you know, making enzymes and adding that, those enzymes when, while you are making the packaging films in the normal way. So that, so you know, when you are making the packaging films, you will add those enzymes while making this. So there is no, you know, separate production facility need to be set up for making, for making those films. But I think depending on as to what is the level of traction that we see, we will, we will continue to upgrade that facility. Okay, great, sir. Thank you, sir. And next question would be, on the lines of like, the aseptic liquid packaging business. So, do we have any plans to, set up any global facility for the same? Like, there was recently, another Switzerland company that, has set up a plant in Ahmedabad, around our facility. Like, do we have to go global, have plans to go global with the same? We keep on contemplating that, and we keep on exploring the overseas markets, especially, given the fact that, you know, from India also, we are exporting on an average, about 40% of our output is what is exported out of India. But anything final on that, I think will be will take some time, because right now we first need to first expand from 7 billion-12 billion packs here in India, and then we, we'll decide about the further two investments to be made in that business. Having said that, if there are opportunities to grow in that business, I think, you know, the company would be quite agile to those requirements. Given that the margin profile in this business is much better as compared to whether the packaging films or the packaging or the flexible packaging business, I think if there are opportunities, why not, take them up? Got it, sir. And my last question would be, like, what would be the next, say, expo or convention that we would be participating in as an exhibitor, if we have any plans in the near term? We keep on participating in the various expos. We were there in the Gulfood last week. We are there in Europe in the summertime. We'll be there in America again in September, October. So we attend all the top ones throughout the calendar. So we don't miss any, we don't miss any. I see. We set up booth there. We meet our customers. We take that opportunity to introduce our new product offerings, and as well as, you know, getting to know our customers better and interact with them and showcase them our products. We don't compromise on that at all. Yeah, no- Mr. Shah, your voice broke. Can you please repeat? I'm sorry. Like, I have been actively following that, so I was just—I wanted to know if there are any expo in India in near future that we are planning to participate? It will be in Europe. I'm sorry? It won't be in India, it won't. It will be in Europe only. Okay. Okay. Okay. Germany. All right, thank you so much. All right, thank you so much, sir. That would be all from my side. Getting the name of that show, one is- Okay. the K Show and other is, huh? Drupa. Drupa. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. Okay. Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask questions, you may please press Star followed by One on your touchtone phone. The next question is from the line of Nirav Seksaria from Living Root Analytics. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. So could you quantify the foreign exchange losses for this quarter? Foreign exchange losses? Losses or gains, sorry. Just one. Only INR 2 crore. Okay. Sir, any outlook on the Nigerian, I lost in middle there, so because of which I'm reasking the question again, you know, since any previous participant has asked or not. Any outlook on Nigerian currency recovering or stabilizing anytime soon also? See, Nigeria continues to be affected by, you know, the huge demand-supply mismatch in the dollars. And- Mm. Which means that any, in people who were erstwhile importing the products and had the dollar availability will now have to look at, the local markets only, even if there is arbitrage between the two. So we being a large player, we being an international player, we are able to manage that given our global reach. But, you know, our customers, who are small, they do not have that much of an access to the products. And even if they have, the price differential between the official markets and the parallel markets is way too high. So that's where there is more propensity in Nigeria and Egypt to procure the raw materials locally. Today, with that result, you're getting a price arbitrage also with their imports, because the importer simply does not have the dollars available to pay for its imports. So that, in a way, is helping the business also. Now there is a 30% duty also, and with the shortage of the dollars, the customers wants to buy local material only because he then has to pay in the local currency only. So you, you're getting a price arbitrage there, to that extent. But I think with if the Fed stops, goes the other way in terms of the rates, we will see that impact softening in these typical markets. So, with the interest rates going down, I think the dollar availability in these markets will definitely improve. Okay. And sir, any revenue guidance for H2 since major of the markets that you have said should recover in H2 or in FY 2025? So any guidance per se? So on an H1 basis, we are 15.5% down on the revenue. If we can, if we can bridge that gap and be at 10% down for the year as a whole, and take our EBITDA level to, for the year at about 11.5% or so, I think that is what we would strive for. EBITDA level of 11.5%, right? So a 10% revenue decline over the last year and with a 11.5% EBITDA margin on an annualized basis. Okay, sir. Okay, sure. Thank you. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions may please press star followed by one. The next question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from First Water Fund. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the follow-up. So what is the latest status on the U.S. listing of the overseas subsidiaries? Of the listing? Yeah, I mean, you are contemplating the listing of the overseas business. Okay. So any update on that? There's no update on that, given that the markets continue to be soft over there. And also the, I think the overseas EBITDA also has to, has to normalize... and I think FY 2025 will be a better period, when we can, we can, you know, sort of, look at revising that again. Okay. Okay, all right. Thank you. That, that would be it from my end. At a point in time when we were working on that, the overseas EBITDA visibility was at least $200 million. Mm. With all that has happened, you know, that visibility is currently not there. But Q4 may, I think, will give us a good guidance as to where are we headed in terms of our offshore business, volumes, revenues, and profitability as things. Sure. Okay, that would be it from my end. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Participants who wishes to ask questions, may please press star followed by one. The next question is from the line of Chiranjeev Shah from Isha Securities Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, hello again, sir. Sir, I would like to ask about the latest initiative about the QSR and takeaway packaging solution. Actually, could you throw some light on that, please? I don't have an insight into that. Let me just, j ust hold on a bit. We can come back to you offline on that. Yeah, sure, though, sir. Shall I connect with the investor team? You can connect with investor relations team, and they'll get back to you appropriately. Okay, sure. Because that, considering the demand outlook in India, looks like a promising business. Mm. Okay. Thanks, sir. Thank you. You may please press star followed by one to ask questions. Anyone who wishes to ask questions, may please press star followed by one. The next question is from the line of Nirav Seksaria from Living Root Analytics. Please go ahead. So just a follow-up on sustainable packaging, as asked by the previous participant. So I just wanted to know, are we planning to scale up the sustainable packaging in the Indian market, since the consumers are getting more and more cautious about it? No. So Indian markets, I think sustainable packaging is the way to go because as I said last time also, the new policy, EPR policy, has given the brand owners the option to either commit to recycling of what they do. So suppose if a company who is FMCG, who buys, say, 10,000 tons of the plastic materials, then they have the obligation to procure, to recycle that much, or the law now gives them the option that if they don't want to get into that, then they use the biodegradable material. So I think, but this is not happening 100% from the year one. From twenty percent to begin with to 100% is a journey for the next four to five years. And that, once it is done, implemented and enforced properly, the sustainable packaging in the form of biodegradable packaging will have a huge potential, because the law now specifically provides for that. The recycling thing is a cheaper option for the manufacturers currently, because, you know, those certificates are easy to get by and slightly have a price advantage. But I think if the law is enforced correctly and the consumer itself demands a sustainable packaging and that becomes the trend and the norm, I think the biodegradable packaging is then unstoppable. From the Mexico plant, which markets are we planning to supply the sustainable packaging? They are only for the North America markets. So anything you're planning to set up for the E.U. market, and the E.U. government is also a bit too cautionary in regards with that? E.U., we have set up, you know, multi-layer plastic recycling plant. You know, while the plant in Mexico is you buy the old used PET bottles and convert them into the PET chips. The plant in Poland takes care of the waste, actually, the laminates that we make, the waste, and makes the plastic granules out of it, which can subsequently be used for making any items of the plastic. So again, that is not our core line of business. They are all showcasing that what can be done with the plastics while we hear all the noise that the plastic is bad. But, you know, we somehow have the responsibility and the obligation to show that, no, the plastic, if you can recycle and if you can generate sustainable packaging, I think, it's a boon for the, you know, the food segment at least because, the food preservation without the plastics is simply impossible. Okay. And so any incentive by the Indian government to promote onto the sustainable packaging aspect or the recycling aspect? No. Abhi nahi hai koi bhi. Okay, sure. Thanks so much, sir. Thank you. Participants, to ask questions, please press star followed by one. Anyone who wishes to ask questions, may please press star followed by one. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. We thank the management for this call on behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, and we conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.