Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Kajaria Ceramics Q2 FY 2025 Earnings Call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aasim Bharde from DAM Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Siddhant, and good evening, everyone. Thanks for connecting to Kajaria Ceramics' Q2 2025 Results Call. From the company side, we have the senior leadership team of the company, who will take us through the Q2 performance, after which we'll open the call for questions. Thank you, and I'll hand the floor to Mr. Ashok Kajaria for his opening comments. Thank you, Aasim. Good evening, everyone. It gives me great pleasure to welcome you to this Quarter Two FY 2025 Earnings Conference Call of Kajaria Ceramics Limited. Joining me on this conference call are, Rishi, my grandson, Kartik, our CFO, Mr. Sanjeev Agarwal, and Mr. Nehal Shah, DVP, Strategy and Investor Relations. While we expected industry demand to revive post-election at Quarter one quarter, the sustained weakness in domestic market and excessive rainfall in the months of August and September has led to a subdued quarter two for the tile industry. Nevertheless, our tile volumes in quarter two, FY 2025, grew by 8.5% year- to- year, to 28.70 million sq m. We, however, expect the demand outlook to improve for the tile industry in second half of this current fiscal. Our consolidated revenue for the quarter stood at INR 179 crores, indicating a 5% increase compared to the corresponding period last year. Our EBITDA margins remained soft at 13.5% for the quarter, driven by muted margins reported by the Bathware division, which was largely attributive, attributable to losses incurred in the recently commissioned sanitaryware unit in Morbi. Additional overheads incurred by Keronite unit in the tiles division, which commenced operations during the quarter. Our Nepal project commissioned in September 2024, and we expect the plant to witness a gradual ramp-up in production in second half of FY 2025. On the export front, India's tile exports experienced a 15% fall in the first five months of the current year, totaling INR 7,400 crores, versus INR 8,700 crores in the same period last year. This was largely attributed to significant jump in ocean freight rates due to ongoing Red Sea crisis and lack of container availability. Now, for this quarter segment by commercial performance. Tile segment grew by 5% in revenue terms, reaching INR 1,053 crores compared to INR 1,000 crores in Q2 FY 2024. Bathware segment registered a 6% year-to-year growth in revenue, reaching INR 90 crores compared to INR 85 crores in Q2 FY 2024. The plywood revenue decreased by 26% in Q2 FY25 to INR 17.5 crores, as compared to INR 23.5 crores in Q2 FY 2024. Revenue from the adhesive grew by 40% to INR 18 crores in Q2 FY25, as compared to INR 13 crores in Q2 FY 2024. PAT for the quarter degrew by 22% to INR 84 crores in quarter two of 2025, as compared to INR 108 crores in quarter two of 2024. As of 30th of September 2024, the working capital days remained flat at 59 days, compared to 31st of March 2024. With this, I take this opportunity of thanking you for joining us today. Over to moderator for Q&A. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press Star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Hi, good evening, sir. Sir, firstly, just a view on gas pricing. Broadly, what we are understanding is, LNG is going to be oversupplied globally. It looks like long term, the gas pricing is going to be extremely low. This more longer term view, I think 2026, 2027, we're gonna see, you know, a big time correction in gas pricing. Any thoughts, internally you would have thought that, you know, how do you see tile business, long term, if that really happens in India? No, gas prices as of now are changing much. And, you know, we are buying in North, the gas from GAIL. In Morbi, we are buying from GSPC. Nothing much has changed in the first six months of this financial year, and looking at that scenario, we don't know right now what the situation will be. But, as you are aware, we are also using biofuel to the extent of about 22%-23% overall, and in North it's close to about 30% plus. So first six months, there is no major change. I understand that, sir. What I was asking was, you know, basically global studies are saying that LNG pricing could correct, like, 40% going into next three years. Any major change would you see, let's say, if hypothetically that happens, what will happen to the timing? Global, right now, is not in our hand. We are not buying gas directly, we are buying through these companies, unless there is a major change, we cannot comment on that. That's not our thing that we can do anything about. Okay, got it, sir. Sir, secondly, just on the industry performance, you know, overall first half and outlook, what do you think? Like, how will this really pan out? Obviously, we all know that real estate launches have been a bit slower, but ultimately the outlook is okay. Any thoughts on, you know, what should be the first sign of recovery in demand? No, it's already happening. Things are looking positive. What the dealer feedback is, things are looking positive, and the demand is coming from real estate projects partially. So we feel that what we have done in the first half, second half should be much better than the first half. Got it, sir. And last question on the working capital, this 59 days. Sir, can we as a business do better than this, as in terms of is it really possible to run the business at 30 days? Because what we're seeing is, some are actually trying to run it at almost zero in months. Is it really possible, sir? Sir, Kajaria possible. What we will try to do that, it will not be 40 days, but I think by end of March, we'll bring it down to 50 days. How will that come through this? This will happen more from- We are trying to bring it down to 50 days by end of March. Got it, sir. Will that come more from receivables or inventory management? Both, both. Receivable and inventory management. It's a combination of both. Okay, sir. Get it. Thank you so much for answering my question, sir. Happy Diwali! Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shaleen Kumar from UBS. Yeah. Hi. Good evening, sir. Good evening. So, sir, you know, you said that second half and is likely to be much better than first half. Is there any signs or any discussions with your distributor indicating that? Like, In tile, as you know, there are no distributors, there are dealers across. We have almost 1,850 dealers across India. Yeah. The feedback is coming positive. You see, two things you all must understand, that in the months of August and September, there has been excessive rainfall all in the country, and you have just seen the result of UltraTech the other day. There is a fall of 35%. You see, why? Because things can't move. If there is so much of rain, things can't move. Things are much better in the country now. Rains have stopped, and as you know, that second half is always better than the first half, but this time, first half, the first two months were election period, April and May. August and September were excessive rainfall. If you look at that, second half will definitely be better. Right, sir. Sir, just want to understand if you have any sense. We have delivered, like, 8% growth, volume growth. Any sense that we've grown ahead of the industry? Like, how much was the industry? Just like in case you have any intel on that. Shaleen, industry should have grown at about 50% domestically. Exports are down, as you know, because of this problem with the Israel-Hamas war. Right. We at Kajaria have grown by 8.5% plus in the second quarter. I think we are definitely at least 5% more than the industry. Going ahead, as you know, Kajaria has always been doing much better than the industry. Sure. And I assure you on behalf of Kajaria team, Kajaria, that we will definitely do 5%-6% more than whatever industry grows. Yes. Yes. Sir, our realization has been flat. I understand it's a tough environment, but how should we think about, like, you know, it's a volume versus value play. So going forward, is there a chance for our realization to improve, and what will drive it if that would be the case? Shaleen, realization will remain flat, more or less. Okay. At least it is not coming down. As I said, last year, the realizations have become normal than the, for the first six months. Number one. Number two, any realization growth will only come when more value-added tiles go to the market. The bigger tiles, the market increases, there will be a slight improvement, but, what you will get as a mileage will be increased volume. Increased volume will give you some, leeway to, market. But that's not something we are looking in near term, right? It's more of a little few quarters away. Increased margin will be there in the second half, and increased volume will be there in the second half, no? Sure. So definitely, it will, it will be much better than the first half, what you are seeing. Sure. Yeah, Sanjeev this side. So you rightly said that, see, there are two part of business. One is a tile business, another is a non-tile business. Sure. What we have done is, as sir has said, that we have done much better than the industry. The volume in a such challenging industry has been good, and the most important part is this, despite this bad scenario, the realization has not fallen. Correct. So why the margin has fallen? Margin has not, has fallen mainly because of two things. One is a tile unit we have put up few months that is under stabilization. So that has been somehow responsible for the falling margin. And another major factor is the bathroom division, wherein we had put up a plant which is still under stabilization, and there will be significant improvement in the second half. So the blame should go to these things and which are rectifiable in the next half year. Actually, that's kind of answered my other question, where I could see increase in other expense. So is that the reason for jump in other expense? Yes. Sir, last question, but- When the volume will go up, so other expenses will not go up in the same amount. Okay. We get some operating leverage there also. And, so last bit, okay, other expense I understand now. Like, how should we think about our gross margin? Gas have also come down a bit, right? So, is there any particular input costs that have gone up? Then Nehal will answer. Yes, Ali. So if you look at year on year, the gross margins are down. That's largely because of realization dropped by nearly 3%. And if you look at quarter on quarter, the gross margins are down almost ninety basis points, and that's largely because of higher mix of outsourcing, which has gone up from 23%- 26%. Yeah, I was looking for sequential. So it's largely because of the outsourcing. Understood. Yeah. Understood. All right, sir. Best of luck for second half. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neha Talreja from Nomura. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good evening, and thanks a lot for the opportunity. Just continuing on the margin part of it, you also mentioned that there were losses in the Bathware, which was, you know, newly commissioned unit, and also because of the Keronite unit. Is it possible to quantify so that we can, you know, come to the normalized margins? I think, because the margin should be around 80-90 basis because of the Bathware side. Because only of the Bathware, 80-90 basis kind of an impact? Yes, you can say roughly 100 basis, 90 - 100 basis because of the Bathware. There is some softness in the faucet also because the prices of metal have gone up, and we have not been able to pass it on in this quarter. Maybe we generally pass it on with a lag, so maybe we'll make up next quarter in faucet also. So visually, you are right, you can put the blame falling back into Bathware. The tile business has been fortunately there is no. Which is our core business, which is our main business, that has not been affected, and we have performed better than the industry both in volume terms, and there is no fall in realization. So we are quite satisfied. So we have not done the way we wanted, the way we guided for the volume, that we guided for the margin. But we are quite satisfied that given the circumstances, we have done really fine. Understood, sir. Understood. So these margins then definitely can normalize in the coming two quarters, which is, I mean, H2? No, should be so. This is the special circumstances we have attained this margin, so I'm giving you the reason. I'm not saying you are intelligent enough to calculate the margin. I've said the reason for fall in margin. First, the Bathware unit did not stabilize, which is under stabilization. Once it is stabilized, so it will not show the same margin, which we have shown in the first half or the Q2. Second, the Kerovit tile division, which has worked only at 38%, will not work at 38%. When the percentage will improve, obviously the margin will improve. So I think we will regain the lost margin in these two segments. The tile business, we are not, and we are not guiding you for a better improved margin in tile sector also. As Kajaria has said that we are not expecting any price increase, but we at the same time, we are not expecting any fall in the price also. So fortunately, if the things improve, you may. We are not guiding, but we may see some price improvement also. We don't know. Understood. Understood. Sir, last two questions, if I may. Can you give us the gas prices for North, South and West? Gas prices average is INR 37 right now. Which is exactly same as last quarter, and all the three units also remain, I mean, all the three regions also remain the same likely? Yeah. Yeah, it is 38 for North, South is thirty-seven, West is 35, and average is 37. Understood. Understood. One last one, from my end. While you mentioned about the volume, is there any industry growth estimate for H1? Volume growth for H1, industry should be about 2%-3% only. Two to three. It's been a muted performance. Understood. Understood. Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir, and all the very best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, as your Nepal plant is commissioned now, give us some sense on how the Nepal market is doing, what sort of ramp up you are planning, what sort of margins you will make in this market? So basically we put a 5.1 million square meter capacity of ceramics and GVT in Nepal, which was commissioned September 24th. The total market size is INR 2,500 crore, and in volume terms, between 20 - 25 million square meters. So we'll be looking at wrapping up our now sales in the next coming three to 6 months as the plant gets stabilized and the dealer showrooms get made, basically. Okay. So should we expect, like, what sort of ramp up, like 50% utilization in next one year? And how will be the margins in this, in, in this plant compared to your Indian business? The plant will be 100%, and I'm targeting to run 100% of the plant capacity going forward. Okay. So this is a margin accretive, like Nepal is a margin accretive business compared to tile business? At the moment, it is difficult to make any comment on the margin because it's a new market, so it may be margin accretive, maybe similar, it's too early, and I think let's wait for another quarter to enable us to give any guidance about the Nepal market. One quarter? Hmm? One quarter. Understood. Yeah. Understood. Got it. So secondly, coming on the sanitaryware business, so again, sort of a subpar performance of 6% only volume, revenue growth in sanitaryware and plywood business have declined by 26%. So, how should we see this business going forward? So for sanitaryware business, we had a very low growth. The only reason was, again, as you know, because of the heavy rains, the market was really very difficult last quarter, and we are looking at a much better H2 going on from here. We are doing a lot of things also. A lot of showrooms are being made. A lot of work is happening at the ground level, so we are looking for a much better H2. I understand. Got it. One last question from my side. The volume growth guidance what you had given last time, 11%-12% for FY 2025 with 15%-17% EBITDA margin, does it remain intact, or would you like to lower it? No, it will go down because the new plant has really brought down our margins, and it will still take another two, three months to stabilize, and from the quarter four will be much better. What about the guidance part? So, I think we have, in market, we will be able to maintain our guided margin. Overall. Okay, so what is the new guidance for this year? This is for Indian financial year. Hello, sir, what's the new guidance for this year for volume growth and margin? Volume growth, we can see a bit, as Rishi said, that plant is still under stabilization. So the overall volume growth this year, overall for the year, will be anywhere between 9%-10%. We have already done 8% in the first quarter, 8.5% in the second quarter, and as I have already said, the second half will be better than quarter one and quarter two. So we are looking at a 9%-10% volume growth as far as the second half for the full year is concerned. For the full year. Margin guidance will be at the lower end of what we did earlier. Yeah. We have, as you know, we have given a margin guidance of 15%-17%. It will be by the end of the year, it will be at the lower end of this guidance in this year. Okay, so by Q4 it would be 15%, right? Yeah, yeah. For Q4 you are talking, or as a year you are talking? No, no, I'm talking for the whole year. I am talking for the whole year. Understood. Got it. That is helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jyoti Gupta from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much. This is related to the same volume growth number that is given, that full year it will be in the range of high single digit, 9% - 10%. Could you give us any guidance in terms of the pipeline? Because we know that the projects which would require tiles, you know, order for those tiles would have come. So pipeline, so do you have your pipe- Let me correct you. It is not a project-based company, where there is a pipeline of pending orders. We are dealer-based companies. We have 1,850 dealers across. Orders keep on coming and going. This has been going for umpteen number of years. So there is no such thing as pipeline. And since we have already done 8.88% in the first quarter, 8.5% in the second quarter, and with the markets looking positive, we will do whatever we are saying. There's no such thing- I agree, sir. There's no such thing. I agree, sir, but you will have a breakup of your tile volumes in terms of, you know, IHB and the real estate or, you know, segment, and real estate will typically have a pipeline, so maybe- We will talk about it at the end of quarter three. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. That is all my questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the question. A couple of questions. So first is, in the last analyst meet, you had indicated that we will focus on government projects and we'll have a pan-India team. You had also indicated certain target numbers from this particular segment. Any specific update over here, and what will be the contribution of government projects? If you could please help on that. You are absolutely correct. The project team is in place. All of the project team is in place, point number one. Point number two, as far as government work concern, government projects are concerned, it will definitely go by at least 25% more than what we did last year, because earlier we had a project team only for north. Now the project team has come in place in east, west and south, so definitely it will be more than 25% government work what we have done last year. And just to add to that, Ritesh, that this year will mostly be more approvals which will be done. The real sales will have to start coming from next year. But the team is in place. Uh- And they are full-fledged, going and meeting a lot of government departments. That's useful. And, sir, would it be possible for you to quantify what percentage of our total volumes are from government projects right now and where we aspire this number to be? Yeah. Last year, if you remember, we did 10% in government business, and this year we are looking at least at about overall sales volume 12.5%-13% of the government business. This is very useful, sir. Sir, my second question is- Just to complete my sentence, as Rishi said, this year more, you know, in government department, approvals require a lot of time. What approvals are done now, the business comes next year. So with the project team in place all India now, I am sure that next year this number should go up to 15% as far as government share of the total sales are concerned. Sure, that's helpful. Sir, my second question is on capital allocation. Just keeping a check of what the company is doing, I see basically there was a JV that we did, I think it's in for Kajaria UKP Limited. After that, we have made an acquisition of CTD stores, where the quantum is quite significant. So is it like change in thought process? Are we investing into the retail network overseas? How should we look into this? And the total amount that we have actually spent on the overseas assets, if at all we have acquired them, if what I read is correct. No. So we are not going to spend a lot of money, and our focus has not changed. After opening the London store, we got this very good distance. These are the seven stores which we thought would further strengthen our retail operations. So, in terms of capital allocation, very less capital has been allocated, and we don't intend to allocate a lot of capital at all. Is my number right, GBP 400,000 to acquire seven stores? Correct. Correct. Okay. And from an incremental ROC standpoint, if I have to look at this particular aspect, in isolation, I think Kajaria has always been focused on incremental ROC and margins. So how does this particular bucket on overall scheme of things actually fit in? Because it is a bit different to traditionally how we have operated. Ritesh, it is too small to which will make any impact on ROC. 400,000, Four crore. 4 crore. INR 4 crore rupees investment, I mean, this is not even a question to be asked. INR 4 crore rupees investment, ROC, overall ROC impact, 40% ROC, no impact, 2% ROC, no impact. Fair thing. But we don't intend to progress this on this path going forward, right? Or is it like if we have some distressed assets, we'll continue to buy? That question we have, we have answered. I'm just answering the ROC point of view. Ritesh, as we said- Yeah, I- We're not acquiring any more assets, and this is just to stabilize the London operations, and we are not getting into it much, any further. Sure. That's helpful. Sir, my third question is, I was moving around the channel, and I found basically two brands. One was Primera and other was Technica. The price points over here in the same Kajaria shop were significantly lower. I'm just trying to understand, is there some change in thought process on our market positioning? Because Kajaria has always been premium, solid brand. That's how our pricing has been. Ritesh, you must have seen it in the Kerala market. Basically, it's the same tile, but to cater to a different set of dealers. Let us suppose in Kochi there are 50 dealers, we can't make dealers in every shop. This is to give a higher distribution reach for the Kajaria brand only, and pricing is not much lower. It is hardly 5%-7% lower than the actual Kajaria brand we are selling. There's not a major difference in the pricing structure in this. Okay, so is this something for a specific micro market in Kerala, or is it we intend to replicate on a pan-India basis? Currently, it's only the Kerala market as of now. Okay, this is quite helpful. And sir, last question. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. Please finish. Sorry. That's 100% retail market with no projects. That's a different market altogether. This is only for the Kerala market as of now. Okay. And sir, would it be possible for you to quantify the quantum of volumes attached to this? Or is it very, very, small? It's too small. The volumes in the overall picture in this is very small. Okay. Last question, sir. Channel inventory, is it low, high? How should we gauge? Channel inventory overall has reduced after GST. You see, earlier, the transit time was much higher than what it is now. GST has removed a lot of, lot of roadblocks. So today, the dealer keeps a maximum inventory of 45-60 days, and, he is okay with that because the delivery time has reduced drastically. That's all. Because of the wide range of products, he keeps an inventory of 45-60 days. Sure. Thank you so much and all the very best, sir. Thank you again for answering the questions. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question related to the Bathware. As 5.10% growth for this quarter, how is the guidance for a full year or the year ahead? Full year, we're looking at a 15% plus volume growth. Revenue, revenue growth. Revenue growth, okay. Next six months should be much better. Much better. I mean, the plant is stabilizing, the markets will be better. I think we'll, the next six months should be much, much better. We will compensate for the first six months in the remaining six months. Good to hear, sir. Second question is related to the Nepal project. Earlier, you had said you have already business there, and you do around eighty thousand square meter per month. And with the plant coming in, we'll ramp up to the four lakhs square meter per month. So that holds true. So from September or you know, when the plant has commissioned, so October, November, we will start seeing such number improvement. No, the plant has already started. The plant started on 6th of September, and it will come into full production by November, and we intend to sell as much as we produce as we go forward. Okay. So, but currently you are already doing 80,000 sq m per month from Nepal? That is just started. That was in September. September, the plant was started. September, we sold about 60-70 thousand sq m. From October, it will improve, and from every month here on, we'll increase our sales. As the production is increasing, the sales will also increase. Okay, fine, sir. Got it. Because let's say- The number I talked about, that was even there in exporting from India. Yeah. Now everything is locally made there, so obviously there's a price, big price advantage. And, now with our plant coming, we get much bigger share of the Nepal market. Yeah. Good, sir. Yes, sir. So secondly, on the last call also, you had given indication of broadening the coverage of a channel financing among dealers. Can you quantify in these numbers, like, how much of eighteen hundred odd dealers so far you know covered with the channel financing? And how is our future target for covering? Yeah, I answered that point. There are two kinds of things. One is your payment. We have two. As I said last time, out of 1,850 dealers today, almost 950 dealers are under 4%, 3%. 4% means paying in advance, 3% means paying in ten days. And almost 170-175 dealers are already covered in the channel financing. Our target is that by end of March, we should cover at least another 300 dealers in channel financing. Sir, on this only, is that the Kajaria only doing in the market, this kind of a channel financing to the dealers or the others also? Others are also doing. Kajaria is doing, Somany is doing. They're already doing. Okay. Okay, fine, sir. And just to clarify, for which you had answered earlier related to the government project. So for FY 2024, you had said 12%-13% of your volume came from the government project, and 15% for this year. This year. Absolutely correct. 15% for this year. Last year it was 10%, this year it should be close to about 12, 12.5%-13%. That is, sorry, sir. That is for a volume you are saying? Volume, volume, volume. We only talk about volume. Okay, last year, 10% volume, this year, 12.5% of volume. Absolutely correct. Thank you, sir. Thank you for the clarification. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sonali Salgaonkar from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is regarding the Morbi exports. You did mention that there is a 15% fall in H1. So I wanted to check on two aspects. Firstly, was there a planned shutdown in August, September by Morbi? And secondly, is the dip in exports impacting any domestic operations in terms of pricing because of the higher influx of their supply in the domestic market? Now, good questions. First, the freight impacted very much. I just give you a small example. The freight, let's say to Europe, was, at one time was $1,000. It went up to $4,000. Now it has come down to about $2,500. So the freight impacted. As a result, the exports came down because the buyer, for a container, if the freight is almost 40%-45% of the component, the buyer cannot afford to pay and you cannot sell locally there. That's one. Secondly, if you are aware, in the just before Janmashtami, about 250 plants got shut down, and they were almost closed for a month and a half, and they are gradually starting now. They are gradually starting now. Yes, you are right. Sometimes, whenever the, you know, exports suffer, partly they close the plant, partly they try to deal with domestic. But as I've said umpteen number of times in the past also, suppose you are a dealer and you have a showroom. So you have displayed a certain material of Somany, Johnson or Kajaria. Now, somebody comes and tells you, "Look, I'll give you 15% cheaper." What you will do? Because you cannot display and sell, because next time that material will not be available. So it doesn't impact at all the local market at all. It used to earlier because the price difference was very much. With GST coming in, that difference has narrowed down to a great extent. So if honestly you ask, it is not impacting the local market. Sir, very clear. So my second question is regarding pricing. Between April 2024 to September, what has been the overall pricing action in H1 FY 2025, both for tiles and sanitary wares? Yeah. Prices, prices are completely stable actually. There's been no price change at all between April to September. As you can see in our realization. And we continue to see. I think we'll continue to see that in the next six months as well. We don't see another price increase or a price decline. We have already answered this question earlier. Yeah. Sure. So that's good to hear, because despite the- So the only thing is gone up is brass prices in bath fittings. Because brass prices went haywire, and then again getting back to normal. So that was the only difference as far as the brass price is. In tiles, not much has changed. Understood. Sir, last question: CapEx guidance for FY 2025. So, yeah, so for CapEx, if you look at the first half, we've done a CapEx of INR 135 crore, which includes INR 101 crore, excluding Nepal. Nepal was INR 24 crore. And for the full year, we expect CapEx of around INR 200 crore, which includes Nepal, INR 44 crore, and balance INR 156 for the rest. This is including the normal CapEx? Yes. This is including the maintenance. Maintenance CapEx and some CapEx on the office building. We are making a new office. Got it, sir. Very clear, and all the best to the team. And Happy Diwali! Thank you. Same to you all. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Onkar Ghugardare from Shree Investments. Please go ahead. I just wanted to check with this lower revenue growth than earlier projected. Is there any impact on your long-term goals, which you had earlier stated, three-year goal? Okay, can you please repeat the question? Can you please repeat the question, please? Yeah. I was asking whether with the lower growth in the revenue because of the industry performance in tiles industry, just wanted to know whether there will be an impact on your guidance, which you had earlier given three-year goal? This year is not changing much because, you know, every year cannot be the same. This year is not changing much, and this year also, as we have already said, the full year we'll have a volume growth of 9-10%. Earlier, we expected to have lower double digits, now it's at 9-10% we are talking about. EBITDA of 15-17% we have guided, we are saying that it will be at the lower end of this guidance. So I guess for the three-year goal, you had stated around 13-15% kind of revenue growth, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, yes, yes. And what was the margin guidance given for three years? Yeah. As I said that we have given a three-year vision, we have given a guidance of 15%-17%, so we cannot give any specific number. This year it will remain at the lower end of the guidance. The next year it may be maybe middle, maybe upper end of the margin. So overall guidance is what we have guided between 15%-17%, it will remain the same. How much, which year, it's, we cannot tell you. And what about the revenue projections you have given? The revenue you are repeating, we have already answered that we are not changing the guidance for three-year. Marginally, because this year the performer has been muted as against the this year guidance, it may impact slightly for overall guidance, but it is difficult to say this now. Maybe next year we can do better than what we expect. So overall, we are not changing our three-year vision. Okay, as far as the current quarter is concerned, have you seen any green shoots, since you are saying the second quarter, second half will be better than first half? Already, already answered. Already answered. This point has already been answered, I think. Next question, please. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Vinamra Hirawat from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Can you hear me? Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to compare the 10 days between the beginning of Navratri to Dussehra. Is it possible to provide, you know, a rough estimate of growth for 10 days between Navratri and Dussehra for this year and last? In a rough estimate, okay. In our area, there's nothing like that, between Navratri and Dussehra, there is something. It's a normal thing. It is not, it is not something that we are Amazon. We don't have an Amazon sale. It's a normal thing, normal thing. Next question, please. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nilesh Sharma from Anantnath Skycon Private Limited. Please go ahead. Good evening. My question is regarding we are planning to increase our government revenue from 10%- 15% next year. Is there any negative impact on working capital, which we are planning from 59 days to 60 days because government projects payments are being a little delayed? Please clarify. There is no impact at all. Let me tell you, for the last three, four years, the government is paying much better than even the private sector builders. Mm-hmm. The government payment has been very, very good for the last three-to-five years. Okay, so next question: How are we encountering the inventory increase due to lower exports from Morbi, the local players? Is there any risk of dumping in local market? I already answered that. When Sonali Ji asked this question, I already answered this. There are two things we do normally. First, they shut down their plants. You know, there are almost 100-plus plants who are basically export-oriented, number one. They, if the exports are less, they shut down their capacity or they shut down their plants. Secondly, if there is a showroom, suppose you have a 5,000 sq ft showroom, you have displayed Somany, Johnson or Kajaria, either of the, which, branded players, and somebody comes to you and says, "Brother, give me 10%, 10% cheaper," who will you sell to? Because in this trade, what is sold is sold. What you display sells. So as a result, if you just buy, where will you sell? Nobody will buy from you. Because, retail customer who comes, he sees the product and then decides what product I will use. So it doesn't work. It used to work earlier because the price difference between the Morbi and the branded player, and especially Kajaria, was very high. This is now minimized to a great extent. The difference today is between 20%-25% between Morbi and Kajaria. So that thing is no more valid. It used to be valid six years back when there was no GST. Thank you, sir. Okay, sir, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the follow-up. Sir, just one question on Kerovit. You know, how is the product rollout, which happened, you know, starting May? How is the acceptance from the dealer? Is it like the product is very different than what the range we used to supply in GVT? Some color on that, please. No, you're right. The range is not very different. We were just attacking a different dealer market, dealer segment in different areas, but we are skipping it very, very slowly. I mean, we have hardly sold anything in the last couple of two, three months, and we are going very, very gradually. We'll take a call as we go along. If it doesn't suit in the market, it's again, a very, very small quantity right now. We're just testing the market. Sorry to interrupt, sir. Your line got disconnected. Can you please repeat your answer? It is very, very small. Without impacting Kajaria in any way, we are testing the waters. We will take a call as we go along. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work, we will change, we'll remove it and change it to Kajaria. Got it. Sir, could you just explain how is that different from Kajaria as of now? We are attacking a different dealer network. This is more to attack the Morbi market. This brand has been launched to make sure that, you know, to counter the Morbi products. And let us give an example. In Tamil Nadu, there's a dealer in Guindy. I went to the showroom. We have a one lakh sq ft showroom. We have 2025 brands of Morbi. So we are attacking people like these, where we already have a relation, and with the twenty-fifth, 2025 brands of Morbi, we have another twenty-six brand of Morbi, which is Keronite. So we are attacking these kinds of people where our Kajaria brand is not impacted by any way, which it is not. Okay, I get it. All right, sir. Thank you so much, and- In significant volume, going forward as well. Yeah, well, I'm assuming that the 38% utilization will obviously increase, and it's a 6 million sq m plant. It's not small, right? Right. Right. We are also getting some material made for Kajaria from there. So we balance it out. We'll not go very aggressively. Got you. Okay, so the six million will have Kajaria, Keronite, both separately. That's what you're saying? Correct. Correct. Okay, sir. Thank you so much for answering. Even if we sell the entire quantity, it's going to be just 5% of our sales. Nothing more will be done to it. All right, Nehal. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. I think thank you very much for this session. I think a lot of good questions have come, and we tried our best to reply to the best of our ability. I'm sure that anything else which can come later will be answered by our team of, Sanjeev and, Nehal. They are available at any point of time to take care of these questions. Thank you very much for organizing this call. Happy Diwali to everybody!