Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited Q3 and FY 2024 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of the future performance and involves risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Sanghvi. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you very much. Good evening, and a very warm welcome to all the participants to the post-results earnings call of Shaily Engineering Plastics. I have with me Mr. Sanjay Shah, our Chief Strategy Officer and CFO, and SGA, our investor relations advisors. I hope you've had a look at our investor presentation that is uploaded on our website and Thank you, Amit. Good evening, everyone. I shall share with you the highlights of our operational and financial performance of Q3 and nine months FY 2024, following which we will be happy to respond to your queries. During the quarter, we processed 5,223 tons of polymers, as against 4,121 tons in Q3 FY 2023. For the nine months ended, we processed 16,718 tons of polymers as against 16,026 tons in nine months FY 2023. Machine utilization rate was at 38% in Q3 FY 2024 and 40% in nine months FY 2024. Exports during nine months FY 2024 stood at 74.2% of total revenue. I shall now brief on the standalone results highlights for Q3 FY 2024. Revenue stood at INR 144.7 crores during Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 134.2 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 8%. EBITDA stood at INR 22.2 crores during Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 18.2 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 22%. EBITDA margin stood at 15.4% for Q3 FY 2024, an increase of 180 basis points over Q3 last year. PAT stood at INR 6.2 crores during Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 4.5 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 39% year on year. Cash PAT for Q3 FY 2024 stood at INR 15.3 crores as compared to INR 12.4 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 23%. Now coming to nine-month FY 2024 highlights. Revenue stood at INR 453.2 crores in nine months FY 2024 as compared to INR 466.2 crores during nine months FY 2023. EBITDA stood at INR 71.5 crores in nine months FY 2024 as compared to INR 65 crores during nine months FY 2023, a growth of 10%. EBITDA margin stood at 59.8%, an increase of 180 basis points over nine months last year. PAT stood at INR 24.7 crores in nine months FY 2024 as compared to INR 21.3 crores during nine months FY 2023, a growth of 16%. PAT margin stood at 5.5%, an increase of 90 basis points over nine months last year. Cash PAT for nine months FY 2024 was reported at INR 50 crores as compared to INR 44.6 crores during nine months FY 2023. Our ROCE and ROE stood at 12.9% and 8.2% respectively as on 31st December 2023. The growth in business has been achieved with disciplined use of capital. Our debt to equity stands at 0.5x and our long-term debt to equity stands at 0.19x. I shall now brief you on the consolidated results highlights. Revenue stood at INR 158.4 crores during Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 136.3 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 16% year-on-year. EBITDA stood at INR 33 crores during Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 19.7 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 67% year-on-year. EBITDA margin stood at 20.8% for Q3 FY 2024, an increase of 630 basis points over Q3 last year. PAT stood at INR 14.5 crores during Q3 FY 2024 as compared to INR 5.7 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 156% year-on-year. PAT margin stood at 9.2%. Cash PAT for Q3 FY 2024 was reported at INR 23.9 crores as compared to INR 13.6 crores during Q3 FY 2023, a growth of 76% year-on-year. Coming to nine-month FY 2024 consolidated highlights. Revenue remained flat at INR 473.3 crores in nine-month FY 2024 as compared to INR 472.6 crores during nine-month FY 2023. EBITDA stood at INR 87.2 crores in nine-month FY 2024 as compared to INR 69.9 crores during nine-month FY 2023, a growth of 25%. EBITDA margin stood at 18.4%, an increase of 360 basis points over nine months last year. PAT stood at INR 38 crores in nine-month FY 2024 as compared to INR 25.2 crores during nine-month FY 2023, a growth of 50%. PAT margin stood at 8%. Cash PAT for nine-month FY 2024 was reported at INR 63.6 crores as compared to INR 48.7 crores during nine-month FY 2023, a growth of 31% year-on-year. That is all from our side. We can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Congratulations for good margin profile. First question is, how should we understand the margin profile? Is it the benefit of raw material which actually gets passed on a delayed basis, which gets reflected on gross margin, or is it more of the mix more shifting towards pharma? If you could broadly give some color on the mix, would be really useful. That's the first question. Ritesh, when you look at the margin profile, it's a combination of higher revenue from pharma, improving our platform access fee, which we charge to customers, and that is what is contributing to the improvement in margin. If you remember, we have been saying on our investor calls earlier that some of our pharma income will be back-ended, and we expect pharma incomes to come in in Q3, Q4, in terms of the development which we have been doing. That is being realized right now. Sir, how should one comprehend platform access fees and will you be able to quantify that amount for the quarter? You would be able to see that if you look at the standalone results and the consolidated results, the difference would basically be the platform access fee which is accruing in the U.K. That's the platform access fee. Uh- Platform access fee is basically what we charge to a customer typically for accessing the platform, helping him file his dossiers, or doing all the validation, testing protocols, and everything for the device. Would it be possible for you to guide for an annualized run rate over here, given it has been bulky? I think you had indicated, and it probably played out in Q3 and probably also might come in Q4. How to project this number or how to understand this? Ritesh, giving a projection for a number would be difficult. You won't see similar numbers every quarter. Some quarters you will have higher numbers, some quarters you will have lower numbers. As we speak, we are signing on more contracts with customers. When you look at it more from a yearly basis, you will have a constant number, which we think should be constant for the next couple of years. Sure. That's helpful. My second question is for Amit. I think couple of quarters back, you had indicated the broader opportunity being at around $50 billion, and you had given a pretty nice split, basically between liraglutide, semaglutide. Is it possible for you to actually dissect that number of $50 billion? You had indicated the larger opportunity is more on the semaglutide. You also had indicated the pen market size. Any specific clarity we have for the sub-segments over here and any particular updates on auto-injectors as well? For semaglutide, Shaily is effectively the only spring-driven solution that matches the device of the innovator. Most generics that don't want to get into human factors with the potential risk of, I guess, still not being able to have a qualified device will tend to opt for a Shaily device. That's where we've seen significant amount of traction. The pipeline, the number of customers that we have already signed on and the number of customers we're in discussions with effectively tells me that somewhere around 70% of the semaglutide generic share will likely be with Shaily. Again, these supplies don't start until 2026 for ROW markets and then 2029 and 2030 onwards for the rest of the world, for the U.S. markets. You have a fairly long gestation period, but a very healthy business and a large opportunity. On the auto-injector side, we're currently in the last stage of development of our tirzepatide auto-injector, which is a three-step auto-injector. At the moment, it's meant to be used with tirzepatide, which is Mounjaro or Zepbound, which is a Lilly drug, but the generic equivalent of these drugs. You may or may not have, but Lilly has of course reported very healthy revenue numbers on tirzepatide, those will continue to grow in the future. We're trying to secure as many generics, including very large generics, be it European or American generics, to create a healthy pipeline for tirzepatide. Timelines on auto-injectors? You have N minus one filing deadline of May 2026, which means we will start supplies in the end of the current calendar year. Supplies will continue into calendar year 2025 and 2026. The official market launch probably cannot happen until mid-2030s. Let's say 2034, 2035 is probably when market launch for tirzepatide will happen. We will still supply smaller volumes year on year till that time. It's not that we just do a clinical batch and we end supplies. We will continue to supply. Just last question, would it be fair to assume that we would be working with the top three companies when it comes to pens? I'm referring to Sanofi, Novo, Lilly. No, we don't work with Novo and Lilly. Sanofi is the only company from the top three that we work with. Okay. What I was referring to is including the pipeline that we are working on, it is still Sanofi and then the generic part of the market. Yeah. Everything we do for Sanofi is contract manufacturing. Okay. Our pipeline and where we see significant growth is on our own devices, which are meant to be used, at the moment, for generics. Sure. This is quite useful. I'll join back the queue. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We have our next question from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investments. Please go ahead. Yes, sir, I have few questions. First, in the standalone, the manufacturing side, what would be the pharma performance for the nine months? Pritesh, you know we don't give individual revenues, so it will be difficult for us to talk about it. Sure, the growth to give you a sense of it, pharma revenue between Q2 to Q3 revenues on pharma will be higher than Q2. No, for nine months, what would be the growth? You may not quantify the revenue number, but growth in pharma is possible to share? Pritesh, we would refrain from sharing that right now. No problem. My second question is, when is the new pharma facility supposed to get operational? Once the whole CapEx gets operational, the total company CapEx, what is the maximum revenue potential on the CapEx? The CapEx has already been operational. We have already operationalized that plant end of Q2. Okay. It was a part of CWIP. 4th of October. 4th of October is when we capitalized the whole thing, and it's been put to use so that the addition of machines and everything happened in Q3. That's what has been done. Okay. Revenue perspective, we basically look at somewhere between 2.25 to 2.5x of the fixed capital investment as revenue on a full capacity basis. Okay. My other question is based on the supply schedules or the orders now that you have, for FY 2025, what kind of manufacturing growth we can look at? At least in nine months we are flat, what kind of manufacturing growth we can look at based on whatever supply schedules or orders you have? Are you talking about on an overall company level? Yes, overall company level. I think at overall company level, we would have growth next year. How would that growth come in is, we have talked about new businesses getting commercialized, whether on the home furnishings front or the front in terms of appliances, automotive, FMCG and healthcare. These are businesses which are getting commercialized as we speak. Amit also talked about the supplies for the spring-assisted pen injector, which will happen during FY 2025. Some of it will happen during FY 2025. In each of these segments, you will see growth happen. You will see growth happening. Looking at the scenario where we are right now, we don't want to put in a percentage in terms of what sort of growth we are looking at, but I think we should see decent amount of growth coming next year. Okay. My last question is on the pharma platform monetization part. There is a number for nine months, which is a revenue of INR 20 billion, EBITDA of INR 16, and you mentioned that you would continue in quarter four as well. Is it possible to share what kind of revenue and EBITDA on the pharma monetization side you will have in FY 2024 at least? I mean, quarter four will be similar to quarter three, in terms of the Shaily Innovations UK. Very similar. I don't want to put an exact number whether we're going to have a higher number or a lower number, but it'll be very similar to that of quarter three. It will sustain in FY 2025 as well as our total revenue and EBITDA for the full year. Right now we see good pipeline for the next two years at a minimum. Two, three years, I don't foresee why it will not be sustained. It should be sustained at a certain level. Pritesh, what we also do is, the whole revenue is not recognized at one shot. It gets recognized over a nine to 12 to 15-month period. Even today, whatever we have recognized in quarter three, you will see some of that balanced revenue under that contract being recognized over a period of the next two, three, four quarters. Okay. Thank you, and I'll come back if there are more questions. Thanks, Pritesh. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We have our next question from the line of Ravi Shah from Opal Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Am I audible? Yes, sir, you are audible. Please go ahead. Yeah. Sir, I have two questions. Sir, first would be, I have seen a strong improvement in our margin both on gross and EBITDA level. I think I missed the early part of the call. I just wanted to know what kind of steady state EBITDA margin should we be looking at going forward? Ravi, we typically don't give out a guidance on our margin profile or return ratio. What we would say is that if you were to look at more from a yearly basis and not go by quarterly basis, we see EBITDA margins and ROCE improving as we speak over the next two years. Understood, sir. Sir, this is going to be majorly because of the shift towards more higher realization medical devices, right? Yes. A combination of that plus utilization levels improving across our facilities also. Understood, sir. Sir, one more metric I would like to ask would be on the export target. Our current split is roughly 75, 25. Are we planning to stick to this split or what kind of split are we going to be looking at going forward, if you can help on that? I think as our healthcare business builds up, you will see domestic revenue going up because some of our device things will be to domestic companies who in turn will be exporting it. You will still see our business tilted towards export in a big way. You could have 5%-10% variation, but I don't see any substantial change over the next couple of years. Understood, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Aman Vij from Astute Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. First questions are on the pharma business. If you can give an update on, I believe we would have participated in Pharmapack recently. If you can talk about how was the response to our devices. We did participate at Pharmapack, and it was a really packed schedule over two days. I'll be very honest, we did not get time to have lunch on either of those days. The section has been very good. Again, this update was meant to be for the next quarter earnings call, given that Pharmapack happened in January, end of January. The response has been phenomenal, has been very good. Sure, sir. My next question is, in the presentation, we have talked about we have signed up four new contracts. As of date, what is your total number of contracts we have in this division? Aman, we plan to answer this question on the next earnings call. We're going to consolidate information on the number of contracts on each of our devices and molecules. Okay. No worries. Next question was on the Middle East market. In our previous calls, we have talked about we are targeting that. If you can talk about a little bit in terms of size, how big is that market and what kind of market share do we think we can get over the next few years? If you look at it from the current scenario, where we're doing an X number of pens a year, the Middle East can have a contribution of 30% to our current, the number of pens we do a year. Going forward, what will happen is that the Middle East market can only consume a certain amount of volume. As other markets, especially the U.S. market, opens up for us, you will see that 30% contribution, while the number might remain the same, will come down in terms of percentage to probably 10% or 12% or 15%. Sure, thanks, Amit. Next question is, you had talked in the last call about we have received some commercial supplies. Can you give any update on the same? Have you started the supplies or any other commercial orders we expect in this year? We are executing another commercial order, a second commercial order at the moment. We will provide an update in quarter four. We've executed one commercial order and we are executing the second one. Sure. Final question, just if we look at holistically on the pharma side. We now have the CapEx ready. In your estimates, how long do you think it will take for us to fully utilize this new pharma facility? Fully utilize, I'd say FY 2026 is when we will see a very high level of utilization. Because that's also when we have key market launches for semaglutide, liraglutide, and the scale-up of some of our insulin businesses. Sure. Maybe by FY 2027. Hello? We can't hear you. Yeah. I was saying, sir, by FY 2027, do we expect to fully utilize the plant? Yeah. I think that's more commercial. Yeah. Basically look at two years out from here when we think we should be at close to full utilization level. Sure. That helps. Next, coming off the non-pharma part of the business. You had indicated there's some kind of slowdown. We have received lot of orders last two, three quarters. I think most of them are supposed to get executed next year only. Do you expect this slowdown to continue for next one, two quarters, or do you think now this is the base and every quarter, basically, we can see some growth in the non-pharma part of the business as well? If you look at numbers over last four quarters or last six quarters, you would have seen that this business has been steady. It's not growing at a very fast clip. It's been steady. I think probably this is probably the base at which we have done. We should be able to see growth from here. At the same time, there are challenges in terms of macro challenges today where you have this Red Sea problem in terms of getting ships or getting based on ships or shipping containers and everything, or freight cost going up. Those are some challenges which are there. My sense is if I were to look at next year, you will basically see growth on both the parts of the business, whether it's healthcare and the non-healthcare. I mentioned it when one of the other participants is asking, we are looking at growth coming in from appliances, automotive Home furnishings as well as FMCG on the non-healthcare front and obviously on the healthcare front for FY 2025. Sure, sir. These are the questions for now. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Karan Mehra from Mehta Investments. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, wanted to understand if you can throw some light on the toy business. I believe we are not actively pursuing the same. Just wanted to understand, is it not margin lucrative or what could be the major reason for it? We are not pursuing it, and it's not so much about margin lucrative. I think margins would be similar to the home furnishings business or any consumer business that we're into. There isn't a stickiness. We don't find that there's a stickiness from the customer side to stick with a particular supplier. I think you get a percent discount, you go elsewhere, and that's not the kind of businesses we want. We don't find it to be sustainable for our growth. Understood. With regards to, we have a plant in Halol exclusively for this carbon steel business. If you can throw some light on the utilization levels and how have we improved since the commencement of this business. Karan, I think Amit talked about in his speech that we have added two new products there or we've got business for two new products there. That will get commercialized as we speak over the next two quarters. We are in the development of that. We have been able to increase volumes on our existing products. If I were to compare FY 2023 and FY 2024, revenue and utilization levels have been higher than FY 2023 on carbon steel for FY 2024. We expect that you will see better utilization levels and revenue in FY 2025 and FY 2026 as we speak. Understood. I will get back in the queue for further questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Amit. I think last financial year you had indicated that we were looking for around 25% volumetric growth when it comes to the number of pens and based on the notes that I have, I think they did around 10 million pens last year. For this year, are we on track to achieve that number of 20%, 25%? Yes. Okay. How should we look at the same number, say, for the next fiscal? I think next financial year, two things are going to happen. One is that we're going to have sales of a very high-value product. The numbers might not go up. The revenue number will certainly go up by 25%. The volume might not go up by 25% because the product is a very high-value product. You look at, I'd say even at a bare minimum, you'd still look at probably a 15%-20% growth on quantities in the upcoming financial year. Okay. For this fiscal, when we say 25%, is it more in the second half or is it more basically first half? I would presume it's more second half. Would it be like 70% in second half? We had good growth on our contract manufacturing numbers in the first half, and we have very good growth on our own IP devices in the second half. Okay. If I had to look at it from a revenue standpoint, any broad indication basically? Second half has been good. Will be good for us. As in quarter three has been good. Quarter four will be better. Okay. Fair to assume we would have clocked 25% growth for FY 2024? More than this? On a quarter-over-quarter basis or No, year-over-year. Year-over-year basis it will be higher than that. It will be higher than that on a year-on-year basis. Like closer to 40%-50% or basically 25%-30%? Ritesh, I think you're getting into too much of numbers there. Okay. Fair enough. Just trying to get the hang of the business. Any update on the home furnishing side and specifically on the carbon steel, any new orders, uptick in revenues? Two new products are being added at the moment. Yeah, go ahead, Sandeep. That's fine. Yeah, sorry. Amit mentioned in his speech that we have back orders for two new products on the carbon steel part of it. In quarter one and quarter two, we had talked about additional business which we have taken on the plastic side from this customer. We have been able to get a decent new business confirmation from them if I were to look at quarter one, quarter two, quarter three. Lastly, on the management hiring, I think we were looking for hiring a CEO. Is it still something that we are working on or is that something on the back burner? No, we put a temporary hold on it. It takes up a lot of my personal bandwidth, and after having two sort of unsuccessful events, we put it on hold for now. What we're doing instead is we're hiring senior leadership across the board below the CEO level. Right. Is it like we have divisional heads, a guy looks at home furnishing, a guy looks at carbon steel? Is that the way, basically, the management tiering has been done? That's kind of where we're heading. We don't have it across the board today. We have someone that leads the business as a home furnishings business. We have put in place someone that's going to lead pharma as a business unit. The individual will need a couple of years of grooming. These things have been put in place, and I'm also personally spending time on developing a new business, which, unfortunately, we cannot say anything about. I won't say a customer, but it's a segment of the business that we're trying to develop. Again, requires very high engineering and precision capabilities. Sure. That's helpful. Just last question, Amit. We are quite hopeful on the pharma part of the business actually going out on pens probably next two, three years. What are the key risks or variables that you actually worry upon? I think the biggest worry is that the customers you work for don't take it to market or don't end up being successful in the market. That's really the big worry. A risk that is always going to remain is the risk of having any potential quality management system issues. We have developed that over the last several years, and we're very focused on it. We don't take shortcuts and don't intend to in the future. Whichever way we move forward, whether a customer is successful or not, at least the facility will always be in compliance. Perfect. That's useful. Just one question for Sanjay. Sir, how much of the investment which has gone on the pharma side when we talk about incremental drug-eluting stent, be it injectors or pens, how do you basically look at the IRR for that incremental CapEx? If you could help me with that number, say, over last nine months or, say, last two years, that would be quite useful. Ritesh, over the last one and a half years or 21 months, we would have invested about INR 150. Sanjay, somebody else is line. Hello? Sanjay, I'm there. Somebody else is line. Just a second, sir. I'm checking. Yeah, I'm just asking the operator to check. Oh, yes, sir. Just a second. Oh, yes, sir. Please go ahead. Hello? Yes. It's me. Ritesh? Yeah. Hi. I just wanted to check, the pharma asset depreciation, is it a part of the quarter 3 number? Yes. It's part of the quarter 3 number. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Ganesh from GK Advisors. Please go ahead. Oh, thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes. Yes, sir. You're audible. Okay. I've been invested in our company since 2018, nearly four years now. We have been facing intermittent issues every other year or so. Solved almost everything. Do you anticipate anything going wrong in our new businesses in the next year or so? Of course, the shipping industry is a problem shipment now. Anything other than that? Amit, you want to take that or Sorry, I didn't understand the question. I apologize. Can you repeat, Ganesh? I'll repeat it. I've been invested in Shail since 2018, nearly six years now. Every other year, we have been facing some problem, and we have resolved that. In this year, apart from the problems facing the shipping, do you anticipate anything going wrong? I know you partly answered it from a pharma standpoint to the previous caller. Anything else from an operational side, from the manufacturing side, do you anticipate anything going wrong? You feel you are confident that everything is fine? operationally, we're quite strong at the moment, and we have built that strength over several years, probably since you would have invested. Okay. Since 2018, that capability has been spruced up quite a bit. From a business perspective, look, we're a B2B business, so our future relies solely on what our customer is able to sell. That risk is not likely to go away. Correct. You see the current scenario last two years, in fact, right? That our largest customer hasn't grown their own business or has had a degrowth, which means we've not had any significant growth. This risk will remain, and I'm not sure there's much that we can do about it, apart from trying to grow other businesses, which we are trying and putting our efforts in to do. operationally, we're quite strong. We have the right resources at every level. I know that we were to hire a CEO, but to be honest, with or without, operationally, we're still strong. Got it. Over the next three years or so, how do you see pharma growing with respect to the whole company, either qualitative or quantitative? We see pharma being about 25% of revenue over the next three years, and over the next maybe six or seven years, we're putting in our efforts that pharma essentially becomes at least somewhere between a 35% and a 50% of our overall business. Got it. The current pharma capacity that we have, I know there is a big differential between value-added business, our own IPs and all that, but can you put bookended numbers? What is the kind of an average revenue potential for current capacity? The reason I'm asking is, will we need more capacity in the next two, three years down the line or even earlier? Difficult to answer, Ganesh. Okay. Ganesh, go ahead. You were on your question. Go ahead. Like I said, 2.25 to 2.5 as we look at on an overall basis. Pharma is CapEx heavy. It's not light. As we increase the revenue from our own devices, eventually you will get to that number of 2.5. The tile business capacity, I know in spite of our efforts, it has been a sore point for us. Is it fungible with respect to the other businesses that we have, and how fungible is it? It is. It is fungible. We are already working with some other customers to use that facility. Got it. Any major capacity that we foresee in the next year or so, next 12, 15 months? It depends if we come across a opportunity that is unique. I think to answer maybe a different question, our efforts are on utilizing existing capacity, which means we're going after businesses where the existing capacities can be utilized with the existing customers. If we onboard a new customer or a new business segment, we will do the evaluation at that point. Got it. Thank you for the opportunity, and thank you for the stupendous performance and your resilience. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead. Yeah. Sanjay, I was waiting for the answer on the quantum of investments which you have done on the pharma side over the last, say, 18, 24 months, and how do you see the payback for here? Ritesh, what we've invested over the last 18 to 21 months will basically be about 125% of the pharma part of the business. You will see revenues going up and being paid for in the next couple of years when we see the ramp-up of revenue happening. Would want to put in a number here in terms of an IRR or something because that's difficult for me, but you should be able to calculate that. Let me put it the other way around. If you are deploying capital for a particular SKU or a particular pen, what is the probability for us to actually get it right? Is it like above the 50% when we do that? I'm just trying to understand the incremental optionality. Ritesh, in a lot of these cases, when we put up a CapEx, we would have already signed a customer on board. It would basically be coterminous with the signing of the agreement with the customer in majority of the cases. While we would have developed the IP or acquired the IP, a lot of development would be done once we have a contract with at least one customer in majority of the cases. Technically, when we do that, will there be some volume guarantee, something of that sort, which takes care of the upfront investment that we are doing for that particular customer? Ritesh, again, different customers will have different types of contracts. With some, we might have a volume guarantee. A lot of customers, we will not have a volume guarantee. The customer also pays us a platform access fee, which basically covers for part of the development cost, which we do. Okay. This is helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Devesh Kayal from Monarch Networth Capital. Hello. Yes. Yeah. Sir, Sorry to interrupt, but there is a lot of disturbance at your end. Yeah, now it's audible. Clear? Sir, you are audible, but there is a lot of disturbance at your end. Yeah. Hello. Yeah, now it's clear? Yes. Better. Sir, what would be the working capital in a pharma business? Working capital cycle. Working capital cycle on an average for the whole company is about 90 days. Some businesses might be at lower, some businesses might be at higher. You'd probably look at ±15 days to most of our businesses. Okay. Sir, for the carbon steel business, the margins we have been in losses in earlier years. What will be the margins, that was with single-digit now in carbon steel business for nine months? As I said, we are improving on the top line and similarly, we are making improvements on the bottom line, between FY 2023 and FY 2024. We hope to continue that. Okay, sir. Great. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you, Devesh. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Prachi Shah from AVC Ventures. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello. Hi. Sir. Good evening, sir. I have question. First is, provide an overall. Miss Prachi, we are unable to hear you. Your voice is breaking. Hello, am I audible right now? Yes. Yeah. Sir, I have two questions. First is, can you please provide an overall growth guidance for FY 2025 and 2026, and which are the most two segments which we intend to focus on? Prachi, we do not give a growth guidance, it will not be right for us to talk about it. Segments where we expect growth to come in, we've talked about one is healthcare, and we've also talked about appliances, automotive, home furnishings and FMCG is the segments where we will see growth coming for the next two years. Okay. My second question is, how much CapEx has been done so far in FY 2024, and for which segment? What are CapEx plans for future? CapEx, which we have done in FY 2024, is mainly on the pharma front the total CapEx, which we would have done in the current year, will be about INR 100 crores, we will end up the year with close to INR 100 crores of CapEx, which we will do in the current year. Okay, sir. Amit also mentioned that what we are looking at is improving our utilization levels of our existing facilities. Our focus is going to be on that. Okay. We will not be looking at making any large investments in FY 2025 and FY 2026, unless there is some specific business where we will need to make that's something which we cannot avail of as of now. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Manish Gupta from Solidus. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is that the CapEx that we did for toys, can that be used in the healthcare business or can that be used only in the furniture business that we have? Manish, it cannot be used in the healthcare business. Okay. It can be used in any of our other businesses, including FMCG, home furnishings. Appliances appliances, it cannot be used in healthcare. Okay. By when do you think that capacity that you had put up for toys can be deployed in these other segments that you talked about? Manish, part of that capacity, we recently just started utilizing it for some of our new business on appliances and everything. We are working on other businesses as we speak. We should have better clarity in the next couple of quarters as we speak. Where we would be able to give you much better clarity. Okay. My third question and the last question I had was that, I think the big opportunity that Amit mentioned was semaglutide and some patents of that are expiring, I think, in 2026 and some patents are expiring in 2029. I think you have also mentioned that a very large portion of the generic guys going after this opportunity are using your delivery systems. Just wanted to get a sense that if, let's say, you're doing 100 units of trial batches today for the generic guys who are filing for semaglutide trial batches, as we get to, say, 2030, assuming you have just 25% of the overall market for semaglutide then, what does this number 10 ramp up to in just a broad estimate, if you have that? I think the current semaglutide market is somewhere around 150 million-200 million pens a year. With the generics entry, and even without it, from between now and 2030, every analyst, including pharma companies themselves, are projecting growth on that business. If you look at somewhere between 2 billion-5 billion doses a year, you're looking at an opportunity size of half a billion pens a year. If we're fortunate enough to get 25% of that, it's a very substantial number. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Definitely. Thank you. I don't know, Manish, if we'll get 25% of that. Please, that was just the market size projections. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Thank you everyone for joining the call. We hope that we've been able to answer your questions adequately. For any further information, I request you to get in touch with SGA, our investor relations advisors. Thank you and have a great evening. Okay. Thank you. On behalf of Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your line.