Ladies and gentlemen, good day, welcome to Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantee of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participants' line will be in listen-only mode, there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Sanghvi, Managing Director of Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited. Thank you, over to you, sir. Thank you very much. Good evening, a very warm welcome to all the participants to the post-result investor call of Shaily Engineering Plastics. I have with me Mr. Sanjay Shah, Chief Strategy Officer, SGA, our investor relation advisors. I hope you've had a look at our investor presentation that is uploaded on our website and the stock exchange. I'm glad to welcome Mr. Paresh Jain as our new Chief Financial Officer. He's a qualified chartered accountant from ICAI, having 19 years of rich and extensive experience. Prior to joining us, he has held significant positions in reputed organizations such as Banco Aluminium, Safari Industries, Indian Oil Tanking Group, Atul Limited, and GTPL. Let me give you some highlights on the operational performance. Despite a challenging global situation, we've delivered a top-line growth of 27% to INR 171 crore in Q4 FY 2024, have improved our gross margins and EBITDA margins to stand at 46.8% and 21.3%, respectively. Presently, we are extending our reach to global markets through Shaily UK. We are now building capabilities beyond injection molds and auto-injectors to develop advanced drug delivery solutions with electronics. Looking ahead, our focus is on expanding our horizon to include contract manufacturing for medical devices, products featuring our intellectual property, and speciality devices. Dedicated efforts invested in advancing our injection system platforms are beginning to show favorable outcomes. Within the industry, our business scope is vast, we remain committed to ongoing growth. Our second-largest revenue-generating sector today is healthcare, we've adopted a scalable approach that will enable us to increase our revenues at a faster pace over the next five years. We plan to increase our MIT contribution going forward. In the healthcare division, we have received confirmed business orders from three customers, two for semaglutide and one for lanreotide in the last quarter. An update on carbon steel business for the home furnishings major. We've added one new product in the carbon steel business from the home furnishings major. We've also added one new product on the plastics side for the home furnishings major. In the industrial segment, we received confirmed export orders for supply of knobs to a U.S. appliance major. That is all from my side. I shall now hand over the call to Sanjay to give you the operating and the financial highlights. Thank you very much. Thank you, Amit. Good evening, everyone. I shall share with you the highlights of our operational and financial performance of Q4 FY 2024 and FY 2024, following which we will be happy to respond to your queries. During the quarter, we processed 5,380 tons of polymers as against 4,790 tons in Q4 FY 2023. For the year ended, we processed 22,098 tons of polymers as against 20,650 tons in FY 2023. Machine utilization was around 40% in Q4 FY 2024 and 40% for FY 2024. We expect this to increase in the coming year. Exports during Q4 FY 2024 and FY 2024 stood at 43% and 74%, respectively, of total revenue. I shall now brief you on the consolidated result highlights. Revenue stood at INR 170.6 crores during Q4 FY 2024 as compared to INR 134.5 crores during Q4 FY 2023, a growth of 27% year-on-year. EBITDA stood at INR 36.3 crores during Q4 FY 2024 as compared to INR 26.5 crores during Q4 FY 2023, a growth of 37% year-on-year. EBITDA margin stood at 21.3% for Q4 FY 2024, an increase of 160 basis points over Q4 last year. PAT stood at INR 19.3 crores during Q4 FY 2024 as compared to INR 9.9 crores during Q4 FY 2023, a growth of 95% year-on-year. Tax margin stood at 11.3%, an increase of 390 basis points over Q4 last year. Cash PAT for Q4 FY 2024 was reported at INR 29.3 crores as compared to INR 19.8 crores during Q4 FY 2023, a growth of 48% year-on-year. Now, coming to FY 2024 consolidated highlights. Revenue stood at INR 643.9 crores in FY 2024 as compared to INR 607.1 crores during FY 2023, a growth of 6%. stood at INR 123.4 crores in FY 2024 as compared to INR 96.4 crores during FY 2023, a growth of 28%. EBITDA margins stood at 19.2%, an increase of 350 basis points over last year. PBT stood at INR 7.3 crores in FY 2024 as compared to INR 5.1 crores during FY 2023, a growth of 63%. PAT margins stood at 8.9%, an increase of 310 basis points over last year. Cash flow for FY 2024 reported at INR 93 crores as compared to INR 68.5 crores during FY 2023, a growth of 36% year-on-year. Our ROCE and ROE stood at 17.7% and 14.3%, respectively, as of March 31, 2024. Again, the growth in business has been achieved with disciplined use of capital. Our debt to equity stands at 0.5x and our long-term debt to equity stands at 0.15x. Now, coming to consolidated segmental revenue breakup. In the consumer segment, revenues stood at INR 481.2 crores in FY 2024 as compared to INR 503.3 crores during FY 2023. The drop or the de-growth of 4% was mainly on two counts. One is pass-through raw material and lower toy sales as compared to what we did in FY 2023. In pharma segment, revenues stood at INR 107.7 crores in FY 2024 as compared to INR 57.6 crores during FY 2023, a growth of 87%. In the industrial segment, revenues stood at INR 55 crores as compared to INR 46.15 crores during FY 2023, a growth of 19%. The board of directors has recommended a final dividend of INR 1 per equity share of face value of INR 2 each of the company. This represents 50% dividend on the face value of INR 2. This is all from our side. We can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Dhwanil Desai from Total Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. You are able to hear me? Yes, sir. Yeah. The first question that I have is that on the healthcare segment, we have done a fantastic job in terms of developing platforms and then kind of doing all the IP work. The larger question that I have is that if we look at our peer set, be it KF Moto or Nemera or any other company, essentially, they are all, you know, by DNA they are medtech companies. From where we are today to reach to that level, what kind of capabilities, manufacturing, framework, regulatory angles, what are we doing to ensure that we move towards there and then compete with them and then are able to get higher market share? Your perspective will be very useful. You know, one of the things I think is it's a part of the journey. They're established players for a very long time, for several decades. One of the things that we are waiting for is essentially our first U.S. and EU approvals on one of our injection molding platforms. We're very confident that these approvals will come in in the current financial year before the end of this calendar year. That will establish us as a player, as a reputed player in the industry. Going forward with the pipeline that we currently have, we're already looking at a very significant revenue scale up over the next five years, as I said in the speech earlier. The opportunity to work with innovator companies, apart from Ypsomed will come once our brand and product gets established in regulated markets. It's a journey, and we're just now waiting for the outcomes. Got it, Amit. Just if you can expand a bit on the capability side of it, that other than the polymer processing, what kind of capabilities in next 3-5 years we need to develop to kind of compete head-on with some of those guys? I think when it comes to, let's say, R&D and design capabilities, I would say that our injector platform portfolio is as good or better than any of our competitors globally today. When it comes to manufacturing, our infrastructure is world-class. We've invested in tool manufacturing in the last year. It was mentioned in one of our calls before. We now manufacture a lot of the molds that we use in these products in-house. Capability buildup has been very strong actually. We certainly need to add more heads, add the human resource capital as we scale up. Apart from that, on the capability side, I think we're on par, as good as anyone else, any one of our competitors globally today. Got it. My second question is on the base business, which is non-pharma part of it. Given the order wins that we have got in the last year, in FY 2024 entirely, if I just look at the number and from the timelines, many of them starting from Q2, then gradually scaling up, but still it looks like that the base business will grow at 12%-15%. Is that right assumption? Is it how you guys are looking at it? One is, there are two things which you need to consider. One is, and I mentioned it as part of my speech also that we have seen a raw material reduction being passed to customers, which basically impacts the top line, which is what has happened. Businesses which we have talked about last year, part of those businesses have got commercialized Q3 and Q4, and as we speak, we will be looking at ramping up those businesses. Some of the businesses which were commercialized in Q4 have gone live in, say, Q1. You will then see a ramp of Q2, Q3. That's the way we will look at it. Okay, got it. Last question on the carbon steel business. I think we are expecting year-on-year improvement and probably breaking even at EBITDA level this quarter, this year. Are we on track for that? Look, we have seen a substantial year-on-year improvement. EBITDA level, I would say we have not broken even, but we are at a very borderline thing, and we should be able to break even in the current year. Okay, got it. Thanks. I have more questions. I'll come back if I can. Just to add, if you were to look at number of equivalent four new projects with the customer during the past financial year. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman Vij from Astute Investment Management. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. My first set of questions are on our healthcare business. One clarification first. In Q4 presentation, we talk about we got three new orders from customers, and till Q4 we had mentioned that till Q3 we had already mentioned we had four. Is the number of orders for the full year which we got new contract, is it seven? Is it four? Why there's this difference? I lost your voice a little bit. Could you just repeat? Yeah. I was saying in the quarter three presentation, we had already mentioned that we have gotten four contracts for development and supply of 10 injectors. In Q4, we have again added that we have got confirmed orders from three customers. Are this exclusive? Is it three plus four or is it these three are only as of now confirmation, they are not contracts. That is why we have not included it in. No. Three plus four. It's four plus three. Sorry. Okay. That slide which shows that we have added only four, that should be seven, right? We have mentioned in one of the slides for the full year we have added four customers. That slide has been for quarter one to quarter three in terms of what's being done between quarter one to quarter three. There's a specific slide on quarter four. Okay. There was this confusion. Okay. Next, basically, in terms of number of contract additions, if you can talk about how is the pipeline looking like for FY 2025 and 2026. What kind of contracts, number do you think we can add this year and next year? We're getting a lot of traction on pen injector ports for semaglutide particularly. In the current financial year, we're also looking at adding fair bit of new contracts for tirzepatide. Tirzepatide is in an NCE-1 filing deadline in May 2026. Our platform is now fully developed, so we're looking at starting supplies in November of this year for clinical batches to various customers, therefore adding new contracts as well. Sure. As of today, what is the total number of projects we have, including the seven which we added last year? Ongoing projects on all molecules put together, somewhere around 12 to 15 ongoing projects. No, it will be higher. Yeah. We're talking about what this financial year that we added. Yeah. I think the question which Aman had was on total ongoing projects, I think which will need to include lira and terry, all of it together. For total ongoing projects, Aman, would exceed, I mean, probably closer to 20. Yeah. I was thinking about 20 to 23. Yeah. Sure. How many of these subjects will be auto-injector projects out of this 20, 23? Auto-injectors, we have a total of four projects and balance are on 10 injectors. Sure, Amit. My next question is, you talked about a couple of commercial supplies. Sorry to interrupt you, sir. May I request you to please use your handset? I was asking that last quarter you had talked about a couple of commercial supplies that we were supposed to start. I think we have done two commercial supplies till late. Any ideas about what kind of commercial supplies we'll be doing in FY 2025? We started commercial supplies for teriparatide, which is our Axiom pen. We are looking at starting commercial supplies of our liraglutide pen as well in the current year. Only one project commercial supplies you are expecting for this year or- Only talking about regulated markets. In non-regulated markets, we do supply for insulin. Same, our Protean platform is used for supply of our 60-unit insulin pen. For that, commercial supplies have already started and we are supplying non-regulated markets. We're looking at a decent scale up this year for Protean as well. Sure. Next question is, Shaily UK saw good growth this year in FY 2024, so what kind of growth are we expecting in, say, FY 2025? Will it be back-ended like H2, or it will be spread across? On new projects, it will get back-ended because regardless of whether a platform is fully developed or not, when you engage with the customer, you have a six to 10-month timeline before the full product execution happens for that customer. Those projects, revenue reflection will be back-ended. Everything that's ongoing, let's say from quarter three, quarter four, will get realized in the first two quarters of this year. You will see a higher UK revenue in quarter three, quarter four for sure, but I think quarter one and two are not going to be low. We're going to see decent revenue generation in the UK as well. Just to add to what Amit said. Ideally, when you look at Shaily or Shaily UK, or I would look at it on a more on a consolidated basis, don't look at the quarter-on-quarter basis, but more from a year-to-year basis. Sure. My next question is, Amit, last quarter you talked about a new device, ShailySafe LAN for lanreotide and I think we have gotten one contract also for the same. Could you talk about the same, how many customers do we have for the same, and is this product already commercialized or we will commercialize it in, say, this year? No. We have now two customers on lanreotide and active discussions for adding another two. We'll supply clinical batches in the first half of the current year for lanreotide. Okay. No commercialization as of now for this project. When we supply clinical batches, the product is at Shaily's end fully commercialized, but it won't get onto the market until approvals are received by the pharma customers. Sure. Just last two questions on healthcare before I come back in the queue. You had talked about a very good growth last year, and we've already delivered very good growth. On this high base, what kind of growth do you expect for this? Also if you can talk about our own IP pens. When do we see these IP pens in the market? Do you think this will happen this year? One is commercialization from our side, but then there is commercialization from the customer side also. When do we see our own IP pens in the market so that we can get the feedback from end customers and all those things? These two questions I have. From whatever information we have today, we are fairly confident we will see our products on the market in the current year. At least teriparatide, so the Axiom pen, and towards the end of the year, hopefully liraglutide as well. In terms of growth for the healthcare segment for this- No, we said in the past calls as well, Aman, we're looking at the moment, 50%-60% growth on the pharma side in the current year as well. Even on this high base you're talking about? Yes. Sure. I have more questions. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nirali Gopani from Unique PMS. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on- Sorry to interrupt you, ma'am. May I request you to please use your handset? Yeah, is this better? Yes, ma'am. Please continue. Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of results. My first question is on the margin side. This quarter, we saw a very good improvement in the gross margins on a sequential basis. If you can just explain what was the reason for that? When you look at gross margin, it's a combination of higher revenues on the pharma side from Shaily India and what we've done in Shaily UK. That's the reason for the higher gross margin. Okay. Because if I see sequentially, Shaily UK saw some decline, and the revenue growth was also about 8%, but the gross margin improvement was quite good from 44 to approx 47%. That's the reason for the question. Yeah. That's the reason I said it's a combination of Shaily UK and Shaily India, both put together. Okay. Fair enough. We saw The other expense also increased quite significantly in the quarter. Any particular reason for that? Which expense are you talking about? The other expense. There are not any one-off expenses like that on our expenses. A lot of it will be basically normal expenses. We expect this kind of run rate as a percentage of sales to continue in the next year also? Yes. I would say we still look at a base for the year and- Okay. Basically when you do your modeling. Okay. Fair enough. Consistently for two quarters, we have been reporting unhealthy EBITDA margin of 20%-21%. I'm not asking for any guidance, but do we expect this number to improve over the coming two, three years on the basis of increase in the healthcare revenue and the IP led spend? What we have been saying is that I don't think you should look at Shaily's margins or Shaily's revenues on a quarter-on-quarter basis. We would still stick by in terms of what we expect. Yeah, we expect margins to go up in the next two to three years. You will see margins year-on-year improve broadly on two accounts. One is higher revenue coming in from pharma, and we're basically putting in more value-add products. That's something which will happen. Right. Perfect. Any CapEx guidance for FY 2025? We are not looking at any substantial CapEx as of now, as we speak. There will be some small CapExes which we will be doing, but our focus is going to be on improving utilization levels and seeing how we can basically have capacities which have been created, being utilized. Right. Perfect. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Dasani from MAPL. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. I'm audible? Sir, may I request you to please use your handset? Is it better now? Yes, sir. Much better. First of all, thank you for the opportunity. Just, regarding, the pharma devices, globally there are several manufacturers, even a few with the spring technology. What is the possibility of any of our exhibit/clinical batches clients for semaglutide using our devices at first, but then shifting when going for the commercial plan? Look, there's never a certainty, right, Rahil? If a customer's done a full program with us, then you will have to remain competitive when it comes to cost as well, and I don't see a reason why anyone should shift. One of the reasons why we're seeing good traction on a molecule like semaglutide is because we're the only ones with a spring-based pen injector, which where the user steps are the same and the experience is the same as that of RLB. At the moment, we don't have any competition globally when it comes to a spring-driven pen injector. We feel confident that the customers should not switch over to someone else after launch. Okay. Maybe asking a more direct question, since liraglutide is more close to commercialization, have we seen any of our customers shift from our pens post the clinical trials? No, not at the moment. We have not. There's two liraglutide variants. One is Victoza and one is Saxenda. For Victoza, we use a different pen injector, which is the Protean platform, and for Saxenda, we use our Neo platform. On either cases, we do not have a customer that has switched over platforms. Got it. If I heard it right, we are to launch liraglutide commercially from November? No, I didn't say that. We are hopeful that we'd get approval in the current year for liraglutide launch. I don't know whether it'll be November or it'll be March, but we're hopeful that approval should come in in the current year. Okay. That's helpful. How many customers will be able to get hold of in comparison to the total filings for the molecules as of date, of course, in the ROW market? In ROW markets, filings aren't always known. I think in the ROW markets, in the regulated markets, we have a fairly significant share on semaglutide. On ROW markets, if we look at, for example, let's say some of the larger players in the Indian landscape, the Indian pharma landscape, I think we have a fairly good share of that as well. No, sir, I was asking for liraglutide. For liraglutide, many people filed liraglutide before we started the whole business of getting into injection pen platforms. On liraglutide, particularly Victoza, we will certainly not have the highest market share. There will be many other players who will file with other devices. That's helpful. For liraglutide only, out of these customers we are in talks with, how many have started generating IP revenue? None. There's no commercial launch for liraglutide yet. None of our customers have received approval. Got it. One customer was awaiting approval in August 2023 for whom we had already filled their supply chain with inventory, and this was for liraglutide, if I'm not wrong. When do we expect increased sales scale from them? No, it was for teriparatide, not liraglutide. It was for? Teriparatide. Got it. Okay. We are hoping approval again in the first half of this year. Let's see. Got it. According to the last phone call on the four additional contracts for the pen injectors to large pharma, this is not related to GLP-1s, right? No, it is GLP-1s. It is GLP-1s. Okay, got it. That's all from me. I'll get back in touch. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anand Jain, who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. Congratulations on the good numbers, and thanks for the opportunity. First question that I have is that, do we have active projects on liraglutide for both Victoza and Saxenda? Yes. If you could just give some idea. You said we have currently around 23 active projects. If you could just give a split between lira, sema, teri, and tirzo. From the top of my- Anand, probably- Yes. We would refrain, in fact, from giving the sort of information because I can share some light. We've done, executed and non-executed, about six or seven programs on teri. lira, both Victoza and Saxenda put together. So five to six programs on lira. The balance would mostly all be semaglutide. And we currently have two ongoing programs for tirzi. Okay. Thanks for this, Khaleh. Where do you see this 2023 number next year? You must be having the pipeline. Where do you see this? This year we did seven. Do you see the next year's number being higher than this? I don't want to tell. Anything that you can give on this. Difficult to give an indication like that, Anand. What we're focusing on right now is making sure that our tirzi program for the NCE-1 filing remains very strong. I think for NCE-1 filing, we're not looking at maybe taking on more than a total of four to five, because we need to make deliveries and the last date of deliveries for the BE batches cannot be beyond potentially, let's say, September 2025. They need six to eight months or 10 months to do their stability and file. In that time period, we are able to take on a total of only four to five accounts. Maybe pushing it a little bit in the last six to eight months before the filing deadline, maybe take on another one. But we're looking at four to five right now, and that's the focus. In addition to that, we're seeing good traction for reusable pens coming up both in Europe and ROW markets. We're working on development of our premium reusable pen at the moment. Again, from molecules and customers, it's too soon to tell what molecules it will take on, and what customers. But we're basically looking at ROW markets with just as much effort as we do regulated markets. One question that I have is that have you received-- Of course, it's an iterative process. And have you received any work comments from U.S. FDA or have our partners received any work comments from U.S. FDA with respect to our pens? Any idea on what kind of comments were they and how were they resolved? If you could just throw some light on that. Our partners do receive comments from the U.S. FDA. Wherever the comments are related to device, we support the customer in answering those queries, whether it be as a technical support on answering an engineering question or via additional testing or providing additional information. Have we received any significantly adverse comments? No. We have not yet received any significantly adverse comments that I'm aware of. Can you tell us, are there any active projects on the Harmony platform? The Harmony platform is no longer on offer. We don't offer it. We have done a few projects on it. As far as those projects are concerned, we are committed to commercializing the Harmony platform for those customers. Okay. Awesome. One last question. In your opening comments, you mentioned that we are looking at advanced drug delivery with electronics. Can you just spend a few minutes making me understand what this is? We developed tech for an on-body injector. We're looking at taking that to the next stage of development. It's a long process. It's not something that will happen in one year. This development is something that will happen over the next two to three years, where we're looking at really advancing the on-body injector. Could be multiple molecules, pain management mainly, and oncology. We're looking at not just servicing the generic industry. We're looking at developing some technologies that would be more attractive for novel molecules for innovative companies. Okay, one last question. Sorry. I was going through one of our competitor's instrument, the demand is absolutely crazy for what they're doing there because they have tied up with innovators. My question is that, do you see that, because of this demand, they are of course, getting out of the older devices or the older pens. Do you see that? Because of this, do you see the demand for insulin pens and also the margins they're paying up? Because a lot of these companies are now tied up with the innovators and especially falling short on capacities for semi. Look, Insulet is a great company. I cannot comment on their business model. I can only make an assumption. My assumption would be that they're seeing higher margins, higher returns on their platforms with the scale-up that they're seeing, where a contract manufacturing business and an legacy contract manufacturing business, which they've been maybe doing for the last 15, 18 odd years, may not be so lucrative anymore. That's again, just a personal opinion. I have no ways to back this up, but I feel that's probably why they're getting out of or reducing the contract manufacturing bit and increasing the capacities and offerings on their own platforms. Look, they've done exceptionally well. I think they will continue to do exceptionally well. They just developed the right tech at the right time, much ahead of us in a lot of cases. Our portfolio from a perspective is exceptionally strong today. I'm confident that we will also see a very significant scale-up. We see scale-up happening in the insulin also, or we don't want to scale it up because we see opportunities in our own proprietary platforms? If there's an opportunity for scaling up insulin. There's opportunity for scaling up insulin, and we are interested in scaling up insulin as well. Our top line is nowhere close to an Insulet. Shaily as a company is very interested in scaling up insulin as well, along with the other platforms or other molecules. Thanks on all levels. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rupesh Tatiya from Intelsense Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you hear me? Sir, may I request you to please use your handset? Yeah, I am on handset. Can you hear me all right? Yes, sir. Now it's much better. My first question was, when can we see commercial launch of semaglutide in ROW markets like Brazil, Australia, some of those markets? Because my understanding is regulated market launch is a few years away. Yeah, I think that everybody is looking at an ROW, like you said, Brazil, India, Canada launch. Most of our customers would be targeting 2026, which is basically FY 2027, but calendar 2026 launch in these markets. What kind of market size would that be for the Sorry, I didn't get that. Can you please repeat? What would be the market size for this ROW market for semaglutide? The market, when you start, it will still be several million devices. The ROW market will expand very fast because today, the innovator itself runs short on these devices and they're not able to service regulated markets effectively with the product from various reports that I've read. The ROW market, you will see very good scale-up. Eventually, at maturity, we feel that ROW and regulated markets will be somewhere either 40/60 or 50/50 on volumes globally. Okay. That's good to know. Sir, second question is, can you give me the total pen volume that they will take in financial year 2024? Unfortunately, I'm traveling. I don't have the number on the top of my head. Sanjay, what was the total volume of pens and auto-injectors and all devices put together in the last financial year? It will be somewhere in the region of about 10 million-12 million pens. 12 million? Yeah. 12 million. IP address. Yeah. Sorry, sir, I didn't get that number. Sir, what was the number? Somewhere around 11 million-12 million is what number of pens we sold in the last year. Okay. Sir. Devices. Not pens only, devices. Okay. Assuming we can do some, let's say, lead approvals for our partners come through, then teriparatide approvals come through, then semaglutide clinical batches, then tirzepatide batches. Can we assume that this volume will go to something like 20 million in 2035? No, I don't see 30 million, for sure. Like I said, we're looking at about 15% growth. I anticipate somewhere around 17-18 million pens in devices in the current year. Okay. Then the related question to that, sir, is my understanding is insulin devices realization is much lower. Some of these are our newer platform, the realization, at least my expectation is it would be pretty high. Can you give color on how average realization will move on an overall portfolio level? Again, a little too soon to tell. You're right. I agree that realization on insulin pen is lower than on GLP-1. There are also different pens. You see, insulin pens, for example, most of them would be mechanical devices. Our Protean platform is a low-cost 60-unit platform. From cost being lower, selling price is also lower. Yes, on the insulin business, the realization is lower. At this point, we're interested in scaling up. I feel over the next even 10 years, insulin is going to play a crucial role when it comes to volumes. You need the volumes to get scale or to gain economies of scale as well. You need to have your lines running efficiently, and for that, you need the insulin volumes. Okay. Eventually, some of these market share of some of these liraglutide, tirzepatide, teriparatide, semaglutide, it will go up. On an average, I don't know, what is the difference in realization? It is 3, 4x of insulin? Can you give some ballpark figure? See, when these products become commercial, you don't know what kind of competition you're actually looking at and what will be the eventual selling price. If you look at the GLP-1 market and the way it is exploding today, GLP-1 will certainly give you higher margin than insulin, I don't think it's going to be 3, 4x. Okay. I see, sir. Okay. Sir, another question is you talked about one of our competitors getting out of contract manufacturing. Can we talk about where we are on contract manufacturing? What kind of contract manufacturing we do, if we do at all? Maybe you can talk about some of the products that we contract manufacture. We contract manufacture a lot of insulin pens, basically. Right? We have some specialty devices that will go on stream in the current year, some that we're already doing. We also contract manufacture dry powder inhalers. The bulk of the contract manufacturing volume is all in insulin pens. Okay. Sir, my final question is if we read about some of our competitors, they are looking at massive CapEx, $200 million, $500 million. We are very strong on semaglutide, given that we are the only reference design I think, for Ozempic. Do you feel there will come a time where we'll have to raise capital if success comes through as we expect in semaglutide to do a massive $50 million-$100 million CapEx? No, I do not expect $50 million-$100 million CapEx needed on semaglutide. First, by nature of us being located in India, our CapEx is lower. Second, we did this massive CapEx last year on the pharma side. We've essentially looked at creating an infrastructure. Today we have the building available to, let's say, manufacture somewhere. Again, very difficult to put a number, but we can manufacture around 60 million-70 million devices at maturity in a given year. We have not installed all the capacity. All the equipment, machinery needed has not been installed. At the moment, what we have installed is something that can cater to an annual volume of 25 million-30 million devices. As we see approvals coming in, as we see scale-up happening, we will make the additional investment in particular machinery, tools, and assembly equipment for semaglutide. Okay. Final question is, to go from this 25 million-30 million to 70 million, what kind of CapEx we would need, and whenever it happens? I think an additional CapEx in the range of, I would say somewhere in the range of between $15 million-$20 million is what we're looking at in additional CapEx. That number is not something that will happen in the next three years. We're not looking at investing essentially anything significant in the next two to three years. We've done the investments needed. We would look at this as an investment over the next six, seven years. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you for answering all my questions, and best wishes. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Karan Mehra from Mehta Investments. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Good evening, and thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my end. Sir, the revenue has seen a growth of around 6%. The consumer segment, which forms major revenue contribution for us, has seen a degrowth of around 8%. Can you throw some light on the factors contributing to the degrowth? As in, there is a sub-segment and the consumer segment as well. Which business contributed to the degrowth, and why? Karan, I mentioned this in my speech that when you look at the consumer segment, there are two things to it. One is the revenue from toys has come down, so that's one reason for it. The second is raw material pass-through which happened. You've seen raw material prices being lower in the current year compared to what it was earlier, which will basically mean your realizations are down. These were two reasons for which overall you're seeing a 4% degrowth on the consumer part of the business. Understood. Sir, with regards to our capacity utilization, which stands at around 40%. Any reasons why we aren't increasing our utilization rate, and what are we doing to increase the rate in the future? We are working with customers. We are bidding for new businesses and everything. We expect that our capacity utilization will go up in the current year as compared to last year. Understood. Sir, that answers my question. Thank you, all the very best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anand Jain, who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. Mr. Anand. Hello. Yes, sir. You're audible. Just one question. As of now, you said that, just wanted to confirm that on teriparatide, we are hoping for approvals on first half of this year on our proprietary platform. Is that a correct understanding? Hello? Hello? Hello. Yeah. Can you hear me, sir? Yeah. Yes, Anand. That is correct. For teriparatide, we are hoping to get approval in the first half of this year. I cannot confirm or guarantee that, so. No, I understand because Cipla has filed an approval for teriparatide. You won't name the customer names. I just wanted to confirm that in a different manner. Yeah, good. No, I cannot give you too many names. You gave the pen volumes for this year at around 11 to 12 million. If you can give me a breakup of pens which are for commercial sales versus which have gone for trials and for these contracts, non-commercial contracts. Anand, we will not be able to provide that breakup at this point. I would now say contract manufacturing, for example, if three years ago contract manufacturing was 90% and proprietary devices were 10%, I'd say today the split would be somewhere 70/30 or 60/40. As we move forward over the next couple of years, you will see the revenue generation from proprietary devices increasing. When you say 90/10 and 70/30, are you talking of volumes or are you talking of value? Value. Value. This $11 million-$12 million number, which I think in some ways, Million devices. Million, yeah. What I'm saying is, what was it in 2023, if you have that number? Or maybe I can take it offhand. I don't have it offhand, I would assume that 2023 was somewhere Sandeep, I could be wrong, correct me if I am, about seven, six, seven eight. I think so I also need to look at the numbers. Yeah, Anand, I can probably get the number to you from the concepts which we have. We can talk about that number and we can get that number to you. No problem. Okay. Assuming it was seven, it's an amazing scale-up that has already happened this year. Yeah. Pharma is a slow process, but you will see scale up. Great. Thank you. Thanks, Sandeep. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thank you everyone for joining the call. We hope that we've been able to answer your questions adequately. For any further information, I request you to get in touch with SGA, our investor relations advisors. Thank you and have a great evening. Okay, we will. Thank you. On behalf of Shaily Engineering Plastics Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.