Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. Welcome to Shivalik Bimetal Controls Limited's Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call, produced by Elovis. I am Shankhini Saha, Director of Investor Relations from Dickenson, and I'll be moderating our call today. Joining us from the Shivalik's management team today are Mr. Kabir Ghumman, Managing Director, Mr. Rajeev Ranjan, CFO, and Mr. Kanav Anand, Head of Sales and Marketing. Please note that this conference is being recorded and that some statements in this call may be forward-looking based on current expectations and subject to risks that could cause results to differ materially. You can download Shivalik's investor presentation and press release from the links in the community chat to be pasted shortly, or directly from the company website or the National Stock Exchange website. I'll now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajeev Ranjan, CFO of Shivalik, to begin with the opening remarks for our call. Over to you, Rajeev. Thank you, Shankhini. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. FY 2025 unfolded against a backdrop of mixed macro signals and recalibrating demand trends across global markets. Within this landscape, our execution remained prudent and financially disciplined. During the fourth quarter, we delivered a 25% year-on-year growth in EBITDA, with margins expanding by over 400 basis points to 23.17%. Profit before tax rose by over 30% and profit before tax margins strengthened to over 20%. These improvements reflect a combination of a steady gross profit delivery and a major approach to cost control. For the full year FY 2025, although revenue moderated by 2.7%, we preserved operating efficiency, closing with an EBITDA margin of 22.28% and a PBT of INR 34.7 crore. Our return on capital employed remained robust at 24.65%, while net debt, debt stayed at 0. We also continued to generate cash flows in excess of our capital expenditure. In recognition of this performance and our capital discipline, the board has recommended a final dividend of INR 1.50 per equity shares for FY 2025. This takes the total dividend for the year to INR 2.70 per share, reflecting our continued commitment to balanced value creation for shareholders. Let me now invite our Managing Director, Mr. Kabir Ghumman, to walk you through the operating dynamics, product evaluation, and a strategic outlook for Shivalik as we step into FY 2026. Thanks. Thank you, Rajeev, and good afternoon, everyone. So, FY 25 has reaffirmed the underlying strengths of our business, precision engineering, product diversification, and as always, a deep-rooted culture of technical excellence. As Rajeev has already pointed out, on the operation side, shunt resistor segment saw good traction. India, as the Indian market, it led with over 30% growth. This was supported by demand from mainly smart metering, e-mobility and some industrial control applications. Our footprint in Europe and Southeast Asia also, deepened meaningfully, with new applications and new customers coming on board. On the other hand, the bimetal segment, saw some softness throughout the year, but there are signs of recovery. There are signs of recovery, on the bimetal front, in Q4, especially from Asia and parts of the U.S. These trends underline the merit of maintaining a balanced geographical product portfolio. On the other hand, we are advancing in multiple phases to reinforce our structural capabilities. As we've spoken about in the past, on the forward integration front, we've made progress with our smart DC sensor mounted shunts on PCB assemblies, and also the new inductor application that is now in advanced stages of development. And these both represent promising steps toward expanding our value-added offerings. At the plants level, in all locations, we are upgrading through automation and additional capacity with new equipment focused on testing, calibration, and overall improvement in product efficiency. At the same time, we are also enhancing our procurement model we... by favoring domestic suppliers to eventually work towards de-risking from the global volatility and, exploring partnerships for, full-fledged backward integration. On the R&D front, we are strengthening our R&D capabilities. The goal here is to establish a more robust and dedicated R&D department to support our current product portfolio and also accelerate all new product development. This will be a key enabler of innovation as the market evolves and in line with trends in electrification and digital infrastructure. Looking ahead to FY 2026, we are focused on execution. Our strategic agenda remains clear, to deepen customer engagement, to invest selectively and, in scalable capacity and innovation, and to continue building resilience through integration and regional proximity. We remain confident in our ability to navigate near-term volatility and align with long-term demand drivers.... So I hand it back over to you, Shankhini. Thanks, Kabir and Rajeev. We'll now begin with the question and answer session. So to all, all our participants, as a reminder, please raise your hand to join the question queue. Here's a quick reminder on how you can raise your hand. If you're on desktop or laptop, look for the Reactions button at the bottom of your Zoom window. Click on it, then select Raise Hand from the options. Your name will appear on the queue, and I can call on you accordingly. If you're on mobile or tablet, tap on the More... button at the bottom right of your screen, then select Raise Hand from the menu. Great, so we'll start with the first question from the line of Dhruv Jain. Dhruv, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Thanks, thanks for the opportunity. Hi, Rajeev, hi, Kabir. A couple of questions here from my end. So, you know, in your opening remarks, Kabir, you mentioned that, you know, you are looking at more, a lot more new products, and even in your presentation, I saw that, there are pilot runs already happening for the PCB segment, right? So from a new product development and new product launch perspective, what is the kind of revenue contribution that we can expect going forward from Schmalz, in terms of absolute or percentage contribution, whichever way you would want to put it, say, in the next 12 months or 24 months? That's my first question. See, Dhruv, in terms of, the value add or, contribution, I think, for that, I'll, I'll let Kanav also, you know, give some pointers on that. But in terms of the timeline, you see, these are mostly for automotive applications, and, how the process will flow down would be that there would be... There are already golden samples and working prototype samples that, that have been developed, that are under testing and validation. Some in-house, some have been sent over to the customers, and some are in external, independent labs, also in India and also outside of India. Now, this will undergo a phase of testing and validation, which will then be completed with a full set of reports, you know, indicating that these are good to go for various high current and high demand applications. Based on that, there will be some feedback that will come from the customers, where some fine-tuning will have to be done from an application-specific point of view. So there could be maybe, you know, multiple variants of a single series or some design changes depending on the mounting arrangements, after which we will go into the actual final release drawing or release design that will go into the product validation phase. Right now, this is a design validation phase. So after DV, it goes into a PV phase, where these are actually mounted on the end application, and then they undergo a series of tests. So these usually can take anything between 12-18 months, if you're being optimistic, and that's when it then gets released for commercial production. So that's what we're looking at in terms of the timelines. For the contribution side, Kanav, I think you could add a few points on that. Yeah. Hi, Dhruv. I think Kabir pretty much explained the timeline. So, on the contribution side, of course, Dhruv, as we, our intention is to kind of supply the whole product rather than just the component, so definitely it adds much higher value add for the company. In terms of contribution, we see that by FY 2027, we feel that this would bring in an opportunity of a year-on-year opportunity of INR 150 crore year-on-year, which will build a much wider landscape for Shivalik and Shivalik products. Yeah, thanks for that. Second question, you know, last two years, we have seen, the markets not being very supportive in terms of growth. But, you know, how do you look at FY 2026 in terms of top line, individual segments or geographies would be helpful. Do you think that, you know, you can grow in excess of 15%, given the last two years, have been on a lower base? And if yes, then, you know, what will be, driving this, for the next one year or two years? I think, Dhruv, it's a very good question. Yes, we are... Last couple of years have been challenging, and we all know there have been many external geopolitical as well as market-related aspects which have impacted the overall growth. But if you look at the Q4 performance, we had already started looking at an upturn towards the demand for our products, and we are definitely confident that this coming year, this financial year, is going to be a lot more promising for us, and it will bring us double-digit growth as we have been anticipating for both our shunt as well as for our environmental business. Got it. And so just one question, and, you know, interestingly, in your presentation, you spoke about, you know, opportunity that's opening for, exports, from the switchgear perspective. Could you just, you know, talk a little bit about that? Because, typically, you know, we've sort of noticed earlier also that switchgear is not a category which can offer a lot of growth, right? But, this is interesting that you put out in the presentation with respect to GIS export tools. So if you could just talk a little bit, about that. Thanks a lot, and all the best. No, this is bringing a lot of opportunity because internationally we're seeing a lot of economies or areas where there is upgradation of the grid required, where there's a huge push towards infrastructure, I would say, upgradation, which brings in a demand for a lot of our products. Along with that, we also know that we are still focusing on energy storage applications, which require a lot of CapEx investments in setting up these capabilities, which again require a lot of switchgear requirements, which is pushing the demand for our products. Along with that, I think, India is becoming more and more, a favorable spot, location for, global, multinational companies, which we are a part of, which we are seeing that there's a lot of push towards and focus towards focusing, manufacturing, or sourcing from, from India. Which is bringing us, and giving us a lot of opportunity to, to push our switchgear products, our bimetal products in these global markets. And you're already seeing that in both in, whether it's, in Europe or in, in America, we are seeing that that push is already, showing with us. Yeah, and I think, Karan, I'll just add one more point here, which is a fairly, I mean, a more recent development that's underway. That's that, through the Indian government, we are also seeing a push as far as the BIS is concerned. And there's been, you know, a significant amount of work that has already been put in to include finished components for BIS, for thermostatic bimetal, as well as for shunt. And we're working very closely with various departments in the government, and there's been, you know, a lot of back and forth that is happening. So we are expecting that within this year, we should be seeing both of these categories also come under BIS, which obviously, as you can imagine, has a significant impact, as far as the domestic scenario is concerned for both product lines. Yeah, and in fact, that makes it a lot more favorable for the company to kind of become a preferential supplier over non-BIS compliant products. This also, I think, Karan, would insulate potentially the impact of, you know, aggressive pricing from China that could, down the line, have, you know, a negative impact on our own pricing. That should also be, if it all falls through, that should also be a plus point. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks, Karan and Kabir. It was very insightful. We'll take the next question now. So our next question will be from Nikhil Popani. Nikhil, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Yeah. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. So my first question is on forward integration. Forward-integrated products, so are those impacted by the recent tariff scenario? And how is the capacity expansion for our forward-integrated product is going on, or capacity modifications, how is that going on, and what is the timeline for that? Yeah. So, from the tariff standpoint, I think I'll let my colleague answer that section, but then I will take care of the capacity and you know, the structural impact of these forward integration projects. So, as you could imagine, these forward integration processes are, let's say, not identical in any way to our existing process lines. Our existing process lines would be, let's say, an N minus one state, and with the forward integration, we're reaching an N state. So the additional equipment and the additional processing lines that will be required would be new developments in terms of process, in terms of production capacity. Now, what we are doing is we are being, you know, we are following a sequence as far as the forward integration is concerned, where, as I mentioned earlier, the initial volume samples and the prototyping and the working samples that have been gone out for testing, these have been made on smaller prototype lines, which are already in-house. These are, you know, virtually will create the same product as what a series production line would create. Once we are closer to the fine-tuning that I had mentioned about earlier, based on customer feedback, based on end application testing, at that point, we'll be placing orders for various types of lines in terms of assembly, testing, calibration, and packaging. But obviously, with these products being completely customized, the production lines, its tools, fixtures, and jigs also have to be customized. So we don't want to invest immediately till we have a very clear picture on what the process or product variations will look like. We have the suppliers already, you know, selected and earmarked. Some of these are existing suppliers that have supplied other equipment to us. Once we reach a stage where, there's you know, a fair amount of finalization on the final product design, then we'll go ahead and place orders on the series production equipment. Yeah, and as far as the tariff is concerned, you see, it's a very gray area at this moment, even it is not very clear from the US market. Our target market for this product line is very scattered. So after eventually, as per our calculation, as of moment, there is no tariff implication for this product in future. Okay, understood. In the last call, we said that you signed a INR 100 crore contract for this strip-based component. Is that getting delayed or something? No, in the last call, we have mentioned regarding the Whitewood contract, which is- ... Currently we are supplying a strip form that will be converted into component and which will be supplied to the different geographies. It is underway, but once you are converting from a strip to component, takes some validation time. I'd like to request Kanav Anand to focus more on it regarding the validation process. I think, I think this, this is already on the way. The, the PCN work, the PPAP levels working with the end customers is already in progress. And, and as what we had anticipated from the third quarter, fourth quarter of this year, we will start seeing the numbers coming in. So we are in that process, and, this activity is ongoing, and, everything is in order as per what we've shared with you in the past. Okay, that's, that's great to hear. So my next question is like last time we were talking about we are engaging with the new clients for the client addition, for the prospective clients. So how is the progress been going in that direction in the other geography, geographies except for America? Yeah. So you can see in numbers, in quarter four, our European market has improved, significantly, even the Asian market has also improved. So that is the result of the onboarding of new customer and supplying to the existing customer, too. Okay, so, are the new clients outweighing the existing clients right now? No, no, no, no. So, we are supplying to the existing client, and we are also having a new clients on board in both the product line, specifically to the European market and the Asian market. Okay, that's, that's great to hear. So, my question is like, during the prior to tariff scenario, before the Apple, a lot of companies were starting to front run the tariffs. Like, they were building up their inventories. And post that, like, are we going to see any kind of inventory correction period in coming quarters, or our order flow is exactly the same or better? In our business line, you see, there's no impact on tariff. Even you can go through the investor deck, you can see only 3%-4% of the total revenue somewhere is having an impact. And that is not directly somewhere hurt us in the long term, because the customer side, the customer onboard process, the validation, the approval system takes so much of time in both the product line, the bimetal and shunt. So we are not foreseeing any such impact on our product line, and that's why this business cycle itself is serving those tariff ups and down. So there's no- Thanks, Rajeev. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry, Rajeev. Go ahead. So I was just sharing that there's no need to even incentivize at this moment to any geographies, specifically the- In fact, it's the opposite here right now. In fact, the customers are a little, I would say conservative in terms of making ordering only as per the right demand situation rather than over-inventorizing it. Because of the... But the general phenomena is by both, that we should soon be concluding a favorable condition between the two countries. And I think, the general understanding is that, this would be business as usual. We are not in a business where we need to invent price, inventory- Yeah - to safeguard from the tariffs. Yeah. Tariff does not have a major or significant impact on our product line. Absolutely. Thanks for your answer, Kanav and Rajeev. Nikhil, you can raise your hand again to ask more follow-ups. So we'll move on to the next participant asking a question. So that will be from the line of Prateek Jain. Prateek, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hello, am I audible? Yes, go ahead. Okay. Hi. I just... On my first question is on the data keeping side. Can you help me with the shunt business revenue mix within IC auto, EV, smart meter domestic, smart meter exports, and other shunts? So I can give you our overall, automotive, energy meter, which is a smart meter, mix for our products. So currently we are doing almost 37% automotive business out of total revenue, and 10% the smart meter business. This is for both domestic and export. Okay, got it. This is as a percentage of total sales or shunt sales? Total sales. Got it. Got it. Thanks. Now, my second question is, in your slide, you have interestingly given your updated TAM. So, you know, if I compare with your previous slides, where you used to give your TAM an opportunity, I guess you have increased your, you know, estimates on TAM. Can you please spend some time here explaining what changed? Like, did we enter into new verticals or, you know, what just happened on this side? So you see, if you go, the market opportunity and the drivers where we have intimated the revised, not revised, and this is what the market study says about the bimetal and the shunt in the long run. And parallelly, we have informed the source of information from where we have taken such numbers. But if in this slide, if you go our original estimation, where we have intimated that in bimetal, as per our capacity, we will be doing INR 700 crore, and in shunt we will be doing INR 600 crore. So, and then in electrical contacts, we have mentioned the INR 300 crores. So we have not changed our time per se, but we have informed to the market about the recent research, whatever the research is saying, and based on which we have also informed the source where we have taken such information. Got it. Got it. So, if I see your shunt resistor business for America, it's been flat and declined vis-à-vis FY 2023. You know, according to you, have things settled there, in terms of EV penetration, or, you know, it's just at a hold moment right now? I think the market conditions have settled. We are seeing that the traction is increasing again. We are seeing higher number of inquiries and opportunities for the automotive EV opportunities in North America. And all our customers are now very positive on the upcoming demands, and they are gearing up and building up their capacities and projects based on that. Thanks, Kanav, and thanks, Prateek. You can raise your hand again to get in the queue to ask any more follow-ups. We'll move on to our next participant asking a question. That will be Akash. Akash, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Akash, you can unmute your line and ask your question. Yeah. Am I audible? Yes, go ahead. Yeah, great. So before I come to my set of questions, I just wanted a clarity on the earlier answer that was given to one participant's question. Sir, is it true that the Smart DC Current Sensor that you are talking about, the new product, that product's revenue will start kicking only from latter part of FY 2027 and FY 2028? Was that what you meant? Yeah, see, as I think, our managing director has explained in detail about the progress of DC smart sensor, and Mr. Kanav Anand has explained about the margin and the opportunities which is coming up. We are hopeful that, in the last quarter of this year, we will start with the business, the commercial business. But we are not counting such things because it will, it will be very hard to say, until unless we are not receiving the firm demand or firm purchase order from our customers. So we are, we are estimating, and we are including such growth, FY 2027 onwards for this DC smart sensor. Sure. And now, sir, since, I mean, for the past three years, if I look at your top line, especially 2023, 2024 and 2025, we have been stuck somewhere around that INR 500 crore, INR 450-INR 500 crore range. Sir, and also I think, you all alluded to double-digit growth, right? So double-digit growth will be like, could be as low as 10% and as high as 99%, sir. So, wanted some clarity on that. If you could just, you know, break it up into segments, what kind of growth you are expecting? Let's say, coming to the shunts business, what kind of growth you're expecting in the automotive and smart meter front, and then accordingly in bimetals and in contacts? Yeah. So I can give you a broad idea. When we are saying double-digit growth, we are estimating at least we should surpass 15% in consolidation for both the product. And as far as the resistor business, means shunt and bimetal, so shunt will always be in the range of 15%-18%, and bimetal would be in the range of 12%-16%. Okay. So I mean, if you could break it up for smart meter, because smart meters are really on a rising trajectory. It's a very interesting, but, see, we are not doing any segmental thing. But, but I, I would request Mr. Kanav Anand, he will give, bring you something more on that. I think you've already seen or heard that smart meter still kind of forms a very small percentage of our total revenue, which is about close to just 10%. So, but if you see, we grew at about 30-31% last year, and we are expecting to grow almost by 50% specifically in that segment this year as well. So this is. The segment is going to grow significantly for its volume. But of course, we're looking at when we're talking to you, we're talking in a holistic view of what shunts in general will bring in and what the bi-metal will bring in. But yes, and I'd like to add, as our managing director has informed you regarding the BIS system, so once it will be implemented, currently, you see, some of the resistor for smart meter is still coming from China. Once we have such system implemented through government, it will somewhere help us to scale in a smart meter industry. ... Understood. Just one question on bimetals. So it is divided up into exports and the domestic. How do you, I mean, forecast the growth on each side and on the export side and on the domestic side? So if you see for the last, historically, it is around 50/50%, but for the last three years, you see our export market is from 60% to 56%, and domestic market is going from 40% to 44%. In FY 2026 and 2027, we are estimating that the export will continue in the range of 55%-58%, and the domestic market would be in the range of 44%-47%. Okay, and lastly, growth in contacts? Contacts has grew almost by 20% last year, and we are estimating this year it will surpass 20%. Sorry, you said it will be, sorry, last way? 20% for- Twenty percent. Yeah, FY 2026. Yeah, and just one last question, if I could squeeze in. I mean, in the JV, the JV business, has gone significantly down, from I think around INR 2 odd crores to only INR 50 odd lakhs this quarter. I mean, what would be a sustainable kind of an JV share that we can, you know, build in our estimates going forward? Yeah. So in JV, we used to supply to the European market and, there was one specific customer based out of Sweden. So somehow they hold the supply in the last quarter, and that's why they have even not met up the estimation for this year. But, the coming FY 2026 is very promising. The demand is increasing from both the side, from the export and the domestic both. So, this year we are estimating a growth at least 10%-15% on the scale of 2024, not on 2025. Thanks, Rajeev, and thanks for your question, Akash. You can raise your hand again to get in the queue to ask more follow-ups. We'll move on to the next participant asking a question. That will be from Harjit Sachdeva. Harjit, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hi. Am I audible? Yes. Absolutely. Hi, so, just a very broad question, as in, in now or in the future, do you see applications for your products? Are you developing anything that could be used, let's say, in the switchgears for windmills? And second, the government came out with a EMS PLI for IT hardware and stuff, so any applications or products that you see developing there, I mean. Yeah, that's it. As far as EMS and PLI is concerned, we are into it, and for the last four years, we are getting such incentive from the government. In fact, our product falls under this category, through which we can, we can get such incentive for increased sale. For technology, I think- Only one question on windmills, actually, any form of energy generation, the power distribution and what will happen is they're going to use our products, which require MCBs and MCCBs for any distribution, which will continue to use our bimetals. So yes, focus on renewable energy does bring in a lot of opportunity for our products. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Harjit, for your questions. Our next line... Our next question will be from the line of Rohan Vora. Rohan, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hello, am I audible? Yes, Rohan, go ahead. Yes, thank you for the opportunity. So, sir, first question was on the bimetal business that, you know, we've seen flat volumes this year. So what are the discussions that are happening with the customers in terms of the switchgear segment, and how, what is the indication? Because the CapEx in India is pretty much on in the fourth quarter, and we've seen, you know, other companies giving out the results in that manner. So what is your view and what are the discussions happening with the customers? That was the first question. I think, basically, on the switchgear side, the discussions with customers are very positive. In fact, if we talk about most of our key customers, they are talking about 2x by 2028, 2029. And if they are looking at 2x 2028, 2029, we are looking at the similar numbers, similar kind of growth with them for these. So post the budget, the anticipation is that the focus on infrastructure growth is going to be the prime focus of this government, which is going to push demands for the products that our components go into. Of course, all the discussions that are happening with the domestic customers are around these kind of numbers in the next 3-5 years. ... Sure, sir. And sir, the second question was on the smart metering part of it, in the sense broadly. So, how is the, how is the response there in terms of relay manufacturing in India? Oh, you, things have progressed pretty much, pretty well this year. The... If you see the numbers also, the installation level has also gone up. The speed of installation has also gone up. Some good manufacturers have finally, not only, developed the product, but also developed capacities and capabilities to kind of participate in this bull run. And Shivalik is also seen witnessing the advantages of such activities that have taken place in the last year and a half. Along with that, what Kabir and Rajeev were also talking about was the BIS. If that implementation is also anticipated to happen this year, if that happens, that would further put us in a much stronger position to be able to take on the possible opportunities and potential that is coming up to us from this smart meter installation, installations. Sure, sir. Thank you. I'll get back in touch. Thanks, Rohan, for your questions. Our next participant asking a question will be Richa Agarwal. Richa, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, I understand that, you know, like, tariffs will not have an impact on shunt resistor business. But given the end markets that are, you know, kind of feeling the effect of that, and auto being 37% of our revenue, so do you see, you know, from... What are the feelers that you're getting from the end markets? How confident they are, or are they on wait and watch mode currently? Another question is, how much auto India would contribute to our revenues? Because I was reading somewhere that, you know, this pause on rare metals or some kind of restriction from China is actually creating some sort of disruption and slowdown in the domestic production of auto volumes. I think the most important thing we need to understand that our 37% of the automotive business that we're doing is not coming all from the United States or North, or North America. So that doesn't really completely, as we have already mentioned, only 5% of our revenue, of the total revenue is in some way impacted. And subsequently, the last year when we signed this, this contract that we had allows us to distribute our components directly to all parts of the world, to our OEMs, rather than through our customer, which is not in North America. So that really kind of helps us push through that scare that any customer or investor or you have related to the current situation that has come up. On the Indian automotive market, I think, we are still at a very early stage. Indian automotive market is still relatively small. A lot of new players are developing new products and technologies which are at prototype and sampling stages. But in the next year and a half, I foresee Indian automotive market is going to start playing a very important role in the EV segment, and which will, of course, give us an opportunity to kind of play a very significant role. On the China disruption, we haven't really seen too much at the moment from our product perspective. We are not seeing that the volumes are in any way impacted because of that, and we are very closely and continuously following that. Okay. And, sir, like you shared the share for auto around 37%, could you also talk about how much you get from energy storage? Because I think it's emerging as a big theme. So going forward, do you expect it to be, you know, what kind of share do you expect it to be in the end dynamics of the revenue? And currently, what is the share? I think energy storage at the moment is a very small percentage of our total business, which is about 7.5-8%, maybe lower. In fact, I think it will be less than 5% of our current segment. This would, this would definitely as smart metering, this would—this is also growing on a 2x basis year-on-year. So at the moment, it forms a very small percentage of our revenue, so it doesn't show too much. But this is going to in the next 3-5 years play a very significant role. Yep. Okay. And, sir, two more questions. First is on the PLI contribution, how much it was for FY 2025? And, what kind of investments can we expect, you know, given the forward integration and the growth in the existing segments to capture that INR 150 crore opportunity? Yes, so, the first question regarding the PLI in FY 2025, it was around INR 3.75 crore, which is under the other income. The infrastructure we have currently does not require any additional CapEx for capacity per se. But still, we are having an estimation of INR 10-15 crore regarding the automation and the improvements in the existing machineries. This will add value to the, through the quality, and for the automation in the future. ... This is the annual, annual run rate, right, for investments? Correct. Okay. Okay, thank you. I'll join back to queue. Thanks. Thanks for your questions, Richa. We move on to the next participant. Vivek, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is regarding the smart meters. So last that I remember that you mentioned that these are in monetary terms, it's around INR 100-INR 150 per smart meter contribution. So with the new components and the value addition forward integration taking place, is there any incremental change in these numbers? No. That will be the same. And once we are saying 100-125 contribution, which includes both shunt and electrical contacts. So, as you know, we are having a three product segment. One is bimetals, shunt resistor and electrical contact. Yes. Shivalik is manufacturing bimetal and shunt, and our subsidiary is manufacturing the electrical contact. So our whole contribution on the consolidated value would be in a smart meter segment is around INR 100-INR 120. Okay. Uh- Yes, the second question of yours regarding any impact for the forward integration on this number will not change. Okay. Thank you. One more question. You are aware that BYD is one of the customers, and since they are starting their manufacturing in India, so any tie-ups with them for the new components that we are going to produce? It's in progress. Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks for your questions, Vivek. Our next participant asking a question will be Jay Patel. Jay, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Audible? Hi, Jay. Can you try speaking again, please? Yeah. Am I audible? Yes. Please go ahead. Yeah. So, so if I'm not mistaken, in the last con call, you had mentioned that, once we go from, once we go to our sub-assembly, our revenue would increase by around 10x. But, you have given the guide for double digit, around 18%-20%. So even if we are able to convert just 20%-30% of our shunt sales into sub-assembly, where we are able to forward integrate that, our revenue would be much higher. So are you going conservative or is it that, it will take some more, some more maybe 4-5 years to reach those 10x kind of revenue? No. You see, let me correct what we said in the previous con call. It was, suppose today we are supplying an INR 10 rupee shunt to someone, once we will supply the whole component after assemblies, would be a 10x. So that will becomes, INR 20 becomes INR 200. That was the explanation in the previous con call, and it is what we are going to do. The rest, as we have discussed regarding the timeline, the whole scenario about the product is as we explained in this con call. Okay. And, again, in last con call, it was said that, pretty much CapEx is done and no new CapEx would be required. But, again, here we are saying that, there would be new CapEx once we have clear orders in pipeline. So can you throw some light on the amount of CapEx that would be required and asset turns that would come from here? Yeah. So, as we explained earlier, we have already incurred the CapEx for the capacity of making shunt and bimetal up to INR 1,200-1,300 crore. Now we are going into another sub-assemblies product line where we may require some CapEx. And in addition to that, as we already are discussing and sharing to the market regarding the continuous maintenance CapEx and the automation CapEx, which is in the range of INR 10-15 crore year on year. Right. So that I got it. But, regarding this newer CapEx, for sub-assembly for forward integration, can you quantify how much would it be, or it would be too early to tell? To some extent we have quantified, but it is too early to intimate to the market. But we must intimate maybe the next, on next con call. All right. Sure. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thanks for your questions, Jay. Our next participant asking a question will be from the line of Lakshman Makana. Lakshman, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hi, sir. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. You're audible. Yes, sir. So sales have not grown much in the last six quarters. Can you, like, explain the reason? Yeah, Lakshman, as you see the quarter four results, then you can see we are coming back on track. And, the previous quarter in our history is the biggest quarter as far as the sale is concerned. Sir, is it because of weak demand? Yes, it is. You see, there were some consumption issues from the beginning of this financial year, 25. But that has somewhere settled down on fourth quarter onwards. And it is not only from the domestic market, it is across the globe. So even you see the fourth quarter result, you will see that there is an improvement in domestic, there is an improvement in American market, there is an improvement in European market, in both the segment. ... So yes, the sales have been stagnant for past two years, sir. So that- Yes, I agree with you. If you go by the consolidated sale, then you will see it is stagnant. Mm-hmm. But you see the quarter four result, where we are seeing a sentiment change, and we are getting more orders in pipeline. The fourth quarter was the largest achievement as far as the scale is concerned for us, and it will continue hereon. Sir, like, can you please explain any tailwinds are helping, like, from the upcoming quarters, like, what could be the reasons for the growth? I think we just discussed several indicators. Of course, smart meter remains one of our indicator. We are seeing our presence in Europe, our positioning in Europe is helping us gaining more traction with the end customers, adding more volume there. In the China Plus One strategy is also kind of pushing us to gain more market share globally with the customers. A lot of our existing customers are adding us as a supplier into their other locations globally. And then also we are seeing that the push against the hybrids and the EVs is also kind of pushing and increasing demand for our components. The focus on renewable energy is also a very critical area, where the wind and solar energy is basically generating power, which is going to result in increased generation, increase in generation of power will result in storage of this power, which is going to bring a lot of potential for our products in energy storage applications, where all these current sensing components are going to be used. So, in terms of... Then again, AI, as you also know, plays a very important role for our products. The data centers that require, that for AI applications require 30% more, require more, 30% more power generation, which basically, again, focuses on power distribution products. This is going to push demand for our components and our products. In general, we are very much placed in those areas where we expect that there's going to be strong growth opportunities. These are very strong indicators for why we are confident of a much better year going ahead. Thanks, Kanav, and thanks for your questions, Lakshman. You can raise your hand again to join the queue for any more follow-ups. Our next participant asking a question will be from the line of Eshwar. Eshwar, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hi, Eshwar, you can go ahead and ask your question. Yeah. Hi, am I audible? Yes, please go ahead. Yeah. So hi, Mr. Kabir. So the question I had was our biggest competitor in the shunt segment, they have their production unit in China, if I'm not wrong. So with the recent volatilities in the trade war, between U.S. and China, do you see any business diversifying away from them and coming towards us? I think Kanav had touched on this topic earlier also, that we have been seeing a lot more activity as far as new RFQs are concerned over the last few months. This may coincidentally fall in line with the volatility as far as the U.S. is concerned and the policies that are in a little bit of a limbo at this point. So we are seeing, you know, fresh RFQs from product segments or from product series in terms of shunt, which we have not seen before, and these have been popping up since this volatility began. So to answer your question, yes, this has fallen in line in terms of the timeline to what is happening as far as the U.S. market is concerned. We are working with these customers. There are some that have been sampled already, fairly quickly, to not lose too much steam on that, and there are some that are still in an RFQ phase. So these are the, you know, the team is working on that as. Understood. Yeah. You also said that the latching relays that go into the smart meter, most of it is procured from China as of today. So, like, government is trying to bring in BIS standards to these latching relays. So how much percentage of, percentage of these relays are made in India as of now? And how do you see that moving going forward in the next 2-3 years? Very good question, Eshwar. I think, latching relay at present, in fact, if I go back, a year back, it was almost 60%, 65% of, or maybe close to 70% of the latching relays are coming from China today. Today, I would say the, as I mentioned earlier, the local players have started playing an important role, and they are now close to, 50% of the, of the total, demand that is required for these latching relays. And with this BIS and the safeguarding duties that are coming up and that are proposed to come up for these kind of products, the endeavor is to substantially increase this share. ... and that's why we are seeing local players are not only working on increasing capacities, but there are a couple of new players also entered also, who are building up capabilities to meet this demand. And the push is, right now, the most important aspect of the push is from the customers itself. So both the government and the customers are pushing towards localization of relays. Some players have also kind of decided to make their own relays in India, and that is clear indicative that the market is wanting to focus purely on Make in India products. Thanks for your answer, Kanav, and thanks to Eshwar for your question. We have time for a couple more questions before we wrap up. So our next participant asking a question will be Apurv Singh. Apurv, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hi, team. Am I audible? Yes, go ahead, Apurv. Yes. I just went through your PPT. I think you have given very good guidance for the next decade. But coming back to what is FY 26 scenario, I'm not very clear, and that has been the case for the last couple of quarters. Could you guide on what kind of top line and bottom line growth are you envisioning for FY 26 in terms of what visibility you have? And what kind of next 1-2 years growth engine you want to become in terms of top line? Because 3x TAM in 5 years kind of is 25% CAGR. So can we expect a 25% revenue growth? Yeah, you see, as far as for 2026 is concerned, as I mentioned earlier, that, from both the segment, this year, we are targeting a double-digit growth. In number terms, it would be in the range of 15%-18%. The second question regarding your, TAM achievement in the next three years, in our business, you can see the history also. In a year, we have been grown by 60%, we have been grown by 40%. It depends on the demand. Since we have a capacity build-up in-house, we are ready for delivery, and it happens in our business line. So maybe next year, in 2027, we will see a good demand from automotive or even in a smart meter. That can give us more than 30%, 40% growth. So based on which we are very confident that this time is achievable in a timeline, in a timeframe we have given to the market. We are very hopeful and confident in consultation with our customer that we are going to achieve it. Got it. So you just said 15%-18% top line for the next year, and should we expect any margin improvements? Yeah. So this is in line with our confidence with our customer at this moment. As far as the margin is concerned, the margin we are maintaining, like, 22% or 23% EBITDA, we have been maintaining year on year. It is the bottom line, which we are maintaining at this moment. So once we have an improvement in product mix or a scale-up, even by 20%, it will improve. Important. Thanks a lot. I think, Rajeev, well, this idea that this also, you know, this is directly also related to investments in CapEx, as far as automation and, Yes. Line inspection is concerned. So there's a parallel focus on increasing product efficiency, in process efficiency, as well as end of line efficiency. So there are internal targets in place. There are benchmarks that we are using to automate over a certain threshold and volume, to automate as fast, as far as possible, the last stages of the process, which are possible to automate. And in some cases, where the volume thresholds allow it, we have already automated those lines, and we are seeing product efficiency increase. So we'll be horizontally deploying that across other product lines as soon as the volume thresholds get crossed. So that should also add to the improvement. Thanks, Kabir, and thanks to Apurv for your question. We have time for one more question, so... And everyone else I can see in the queue, you can surely write to us on the email ID on the last slide of the deck, and I'll make sure your questions are answered. So our last question for today will be from Naushad Choudhary. Naushad, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Hi, Naushad. You can ask your question. You can go ahead. Looks like we've lost Naushad's line, so we'll take another question from Shriram. Shriram, your line is unmuted. You can go ahead and ask your question. Thank you for the opportunity. So regarding this forward integration, what would be the margin of those assemblies? I mean, even on, even a broad range would do. Now, you know, can you also elaborate on the type of assemblies and the specific application, like, you know, do we have to import something to make the full component, or everything will be made in-house? Like, whether the product lines will be fungible to produce multiple products or it'll be a single product, assembly? You know, some color on those. Yeah. I'll request Managing Director to address this question. Yeah. So, Rajeev, you can take care of the margins discussion. Yes. I'll take the second question first. See, as far as the production lines are concerned, as I mentioned earlier, we are you know very closely watching the feedback from the customers from the first prototype samples. As I mentioned earlier, there will be some fine-tuning in terms of you know mounting designs, in terms of current carrying capacities, possibly some you know minor changes as far as the product outlay is concerned. So the idea is clearly to you know kind of have these smart DC shunt sensors to fall into four major categories in terms of size, in terms of current carrying capacity. Now, those four will possibly need dedicated lines. But within those dedicated lines, there will be flexibility to switch to various models in terms of the shunt itself and also changes within the PCB. So the idea would be to have at least, you know, multiple lines carrying forward the standard designs, and then flexibilities within those multiple lines to switch over to variations of those designs. But from the beginning, our focus is, has been to have a primary design which can be adapted to slight customer variations, depending on the end user application. There could be potentially a scenario where volumes for a certain end user application could be large enough that would justify setting up a dedicated line. When it comes to these types of, you know, automated end-of-line assembly, end-of-line calibration and testing, the less you switch over, the better it is. So that goes hand-in-hand with the volumes, where volumes justify it, certain specific designs could justify their own dedicated lines. But otherwise, the idea would be to design multiple production lines that, you know, day in and day out, would be making a standard design, but then also be adaptable to slight variations, depending on the end application. As far as the assembly itself is concerned, it contains, you know, a mix of, obviously the shunt, the PCB itself, and also certain other components that are mounted and soldered onto the PCB. The products that are soldered onto the PCB would be standard items, bought, you know, bought-out items like thermistors or other types of temperature sensors, maybe some sort of a connector and possibly an amplifier in the middle, depending on the end user. So, a few of those parts will be bought-out parts, which are standard catalog items from multiple vendors, which are already, you know, defined and qualified. The remaining PCB, as well as the shunt, of course, is designed by Shivalik. That is a Shivalik product. The shunt is a Shivalik product. So it's a mix of in-house products as well as certain bought-out parts. So, this for the value addition would be more than 90%? I mean, the in-house value addition. You see, as far as the value addition is concerned, it depends entirely on the bought-out product that we have. But currently, our shunt, which is what we are producing right now, and that plays a major role for the costing. So the bill of material, somewhere in between 15%-16%, so the rest is the margin. And, it also somewhere signifies when we scale up this business, that can increase our margin to a certain extent. Once you are purchasing the bought-out item in a bulk more or bulk, then you are also saving some cost there. So this product where, suppose today we are selling a shunt only, where we are making 23% as for our EBITDA. So tomorrow, if we are selling the whole product line, so there, the estimated margin would be in the range of at least 40%-50%. Thanks, Rajeev, and thanks, Kabir, for your answer, and thanks to Shriram for your question. We now have to wrap up our Q&A session. I can see that all the participants with their hand raised. Please do write to us at shivalik@dickensonworld.com. It's the email ID on the last slide of the investor deck, and I'll ensure all your questions are answered to your satisfaction. So that concludes our Q&A session. As soon as this call finishes, you'll be directed to a survey for your feedback. Kindly take a few moments to participate in this quick survey. I'll now hand over to Rajeev and Kabir for some closing comments on the call. Over to you, Rajeev. Yeah, thank you, Shankhini, and thank you all for participating in our call. We hope we have somewhere satisfied your question and answer session, and we are with, very committed, for the growth in FY 26. Thanks again. Yeah, and I have the same sentiment, so thank you, everyone, and thank you for the questions. We are committed to you know, delivering and performing also internally, as well as for all of our shareholders and investors. There's a focus looking outwards, but there's also a very strong focus looking within the company, within the manufacturing locations to you know, improve our systems internally, our manpower, our internal KPIs. So there's a core focus on both areas, and we are committed to deliver on both fronts. Great! Thanks to Kabir, Rajeev, and Kanav for your time today and to answer all the questions. That's the end of our call today. So on behalf of Shivalik, thank you for your participation today, and if, for any remaining questions, you can write to us at Dickenson. So thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Please have a great afternoon.