Ladies and gentlemen, good day. Welcome to KEI Industries Limited Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by Monarch Networth Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch- tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Dani from Monarch Networth Capital. Thank you. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Deepak. Good afternoon, everyone. We are pleased to host the senior management of KEI Industries today. We have with us Mr. Anil Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director of the company, and Mr. Rajeev Gupta, CFO of the company. Let us start the call with opening remarks from management. Then we move to Q&A. Thank you. Over to you, sir. Good afternoon. Thank you very much. I am Anil Gupta. Welcome to this conference call of KEI Industries Limited investor conference call. I welcome all of our, my esteemed investors on this call. We'll brief you about the Q4 numbers and then the annual numbers of FY 2023. In Q4 of FY 2023, the net sales achieved is INR 1,954 crore against same quarter in previous year, INR 1,794 crore. Growth in net sales is 9.06%. However, the volume growth in this quarter is around 13% because of the lower prices of metals during third quarter and having affected this quarter as well. EBITDA in this quarter is INR 208.88 crore against INR 179 crore last year, same quarter. The growth in EBITDA is 16.23%. EBITDA over net sales margin is 10.69% against 10.03% in the same period previous year. Profit after tax is INR 138.11 crore against INR 115.68 crore last year. Growth in the profit after tax is 19.9%. Consequently, the profit after tax public net sales margin is 7.07% versus 6.47% achieved last year during the same period. Domestic institutional sale in this period is INR 712 crore against INR 660 crore last year. That is a growth of 8%. The sales of Extra High Voltage cable is INR 102 crore against INR 146 crore same period last year. Export sale in this quarter is INR 164 crore against INR 177 crore in the same period last year. Total cable institutional sale contribution is 48% as against 52% in the last year's same quarter. Sales through distribution dealer of distribution network, that means ETP, was INR 822 crore in fourth quarter against INR 717 crore. The growth in is approximately 15%. The B2C sale contributed approximately 42% in the fourth quarter against 40% in the last year. The sales of EPC division is INR 135 crore against INR 109 crore. The growth is approximately 24%. Out of the total sales of EPC, the sales of Extra High Voltage cable EPC, the turnkey execution is INR 65 crore against INR 37 crore in the same quarter last year. Sales of stainless steel wire is INR 63 crore against INR 61 crore in the same quarter last year. The volume increase in the cable division on the basis of production and consumption of metal in Q4 of 2022, 2023 is approximately 13%. Similarly, in House Wire, the Q4 sales are INR 478 crore against INR 466 crore last year, of 2.55%. The volume growth in the House Wire sales is 13%. Value sales has come down because of the decrease in the copper prices, by approximately and consequently the selling prices by approximately 10% in this quarter. However, the full year increase in the sales of House Wire and Winding Wire is 23.21% over full year of 2022. I'll come to the full year of financial 2023. The net sales achieved in full financial year FY 2023 is INR 6,912 crore against INR 5,727 crore in last year. The growth in net sales is 20.7%. EBITDA over net sales margin is 10.62% against 10.54% in the previous year. Profit after tax is INR 477 crore against previous year INR 376 crore. The growth in the PAT is 26.89%. The PAT for net sales margin is 6.91% versus 6.57%. The domestic institutional cable sale, Wire and Cable, is INR 2,390 crore in FY 2023, achieving a growth of percent. Sales through dealer network is INR 3,030 crore against INR 2,319 crore last year. The growth is around 31%. The export sales in FY 2022-2023 is INR 693 crore against INR 585 crore last year. The growth is, in the export sales is 18%. Active working dealers of the company as on 31st March 2023 are approximately INR 1,910. B2C sale through dealer network contributed approximately 44% in FY 2022-2023 against previous year, 40%. The total EPC sale other than Cable is INR 405 crore against INR 380 crore achieved last year. The growth is around 6%. The growth in the sales is mainly due to the EHV EPC sale. The Extra High Voltage cables EPC sale. The total sales of EPC and EHV EPC is INR 147 crore against INR 128 crore in last year. The sales of Stainless Steel Wire Division is INR 248 crore in the full year against INR 226 crore last year. The growth is approximately 10%. Overall volume increase in the cable division on the basis of production of and consumption of metal is approximately 30%. Pending orders as on 28th April 2023 is approximately INR 3,568 crore. Out of it, EPC INR 9.6 crore, Extra High Voltage cable, Cable and EPC INR 850 crore, cable domestic INR 1,440 crore, export orders of cables are INR 332 crore. Total borrowings as on 31st March is INR 135 crore, INR 35 crore only for general finance. Otherwise, the credit limit utilization is nil, cash and balance bank balances of INR 537 crore as on 31st March 2023 as against total borrowing of INR 331 crore in cash and bank balances of INR 360 crore as on 31st March 2022. The acceptances, that is creditors against LC, as on 31st March 2023 is INR 219 crore against INR 299 crore in FY 2022. The net cash on the books is INR 153 crore against net debt, including acceptances of INR 270 crore as on 31st March 2022. During the 2022-2023 financial year, the finance cost has decreased to INR 34.71 crore as against INR 40.39 crore in the last year. The percentage of financial charges of net sales has decreased this period to 0.5% from 0.71%. Interest income earned on fixed deposits is INR 16.49 crore against INR 1.87 crore earned in financial year 2021-2022, which is included in the other income. I will come to the future outlook. At present, company has repaid all its debts and is a debt-free company. Whatever cash accruals will be there, it will be used for CapEx for future growth and additional working capital requirements. Capacity utilized during FY 2023 is 91% in the cable division, 79% in the House Wire Division, and 87% in the Stainless Steel Wire Division. During financial year 2022-2023, company has spent INR 98 crore on capital expenditure. During the current financial year, company is doing a brownfield CapEx of around INR 45 crore in our Silvassa plant, which will generate an additional top- line revenue of LT power cables of approximately INR 500 crore. This will enable us to grow by approximately 16% to 7%, 17% in current financial year. As this is apart from the brownfield, apart from this brownfield CapEx in FY 2023-2024, we have planned INR 250-INR 300 crore CapEx on greenfield expansion for cable and wire in Gujarat products. The construction will commence somewhere in June, and production of which will commence within 18 months of the commencement of construction. That is by end of September to December 2024. We'll be spending every year around INR 250 -INR 300 crore every year in next three years to maintain a CAGR growth of 17%-18% per annum, as against achieved CAGR of around 15% during last 15 years. The industry outlook. India is emerging as the fastest growing major economy in the world, due to its very strong infrastructure pipeline and focused by central government and state governments on infrastructure, especially railways, metro railways, urban railway systems, highways and, you know, large buildings on hospitals and other infrastructure. We expect a very strong momentum in the cable demand in the coming few financial years. Apart from that, we hope that even real estate should be doing well. There is a very strong growth seen in solar energy projects. We are seeing a good traction in the solar demand from solar developers. The present renewed distribution strengthening scheme by various distribution companies in India, which is funded by PFC and REC. A good demand from our distribution companies are there for RDSS projects. We are also seeing demand going up from the manufacturing sector. We expect that manufacturing sector and the private CapEx will also show a very strong demand, especially from the steel, oil and gas, petrochemicals, cement and miscellaneous industries. The government emphasis on PLI schemes will definitely boost the investments in the manufacturing sectors. With this, I conclude my you know brief. Now I'm available for any possible questions. Thank you very much. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from InCred Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for the facilities and congratulations for achieving the guidance for the year. Sir, just two questions to start with. For the next, you know, current fiscal 2024, what are the three, four things you are working on to achieve your, you know, top line target? As you are saying, obviously CapEx is a much more focused area. Could you highlight another three, four things you are working on to achieve your 16%-17% growth on top line and 11% margin which you guide here for fiscal 2024? That's the first question. Yeah. As you see, we are already focusing on increasing our sales to the retail data distributor network, which has already contributed around 44%. If we have guided last year to reach out to 44%-45%, almost we have reached to 44%. Again, for the next financial year, we are targeting for 48%-50% reaching to the data distributor sales out of the total sales. Again, we are focusing on that. Second part, we are more focusing on the export. Earlier we were not available in the for the U.S. exports. Now, few of the reps got approval from the U.S. market. Now in this financial year, even the last quarter of the last financial also we started exporting to the U.S. market. This year our export will also increase. At present, last year our export contribution is close to 10%. Now we are targeting this contribution from 10%-12% of the total sales. Then we are also focusing to the brownfield CapEx in our Silvassa plant, so that the capacity will be available for the second half of the current financial year, which will enable us to again grow to 16%-17%. Yes, Rahul Ji. Got it, sir. Got it. Sir, one second question was for Anil Ji. Sir, there has been starting June 2021, almost 3 million shares have been sold, in the reported on the stock exchange, about INR 270 crore, so 3% of equity. There have been some concern when we interact with your shareholder and other investors regarding this. What's your clarity, if you could help us to understand, and if you don't mind sharing the purpose for this. Is this now done with or should we expect something more? No, I think it is done with. We have already clarified to our large shareholder also, and again we are clarifying here also. Whatever he was intent to sell, he has completed his sale, so no future sale will be there. This was basically intended for, you know, buying a house property for personal use and, which was long overdue. I didn't have even a residential house in the city to which, for which we have invested. Got it, sir. Appreciate that reply, sir. Thank you so much. Lastly, on the Gujarat plant that is staying in the construction speed now, we should expect the first output from there sometime in September or next week. Is that correct? Yes, yes. Okay. Perfect, sir. Thank you so much. much. I'll come back to you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Alok Deshpande from Nuvama. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. Congratulations to the entire KEI team for the great performance. Two questions from my side. One, if you could give us some sense on the volume growth for Q4 in cable and wires and also for the entire year. That's my first question. Volume growth in the cable is close to 13% in Q4 and 20% for the full year. Okay. This is only for cables or cables and wires, I mean, the House Wires put together? Yeah. Okay. Wires and cables put together. 13% for Q4 and 20% for the entire year, right? Entire year, yes. Yeah. Sir, my second question was, when we look at your raw material cost or, you know, your gross margin, sir, when you look at spot prices of, let's say, aluminum or, copper, does this affect you with a lag in the sense that the prices which were there for Q3, of FY 2023, would that would have had an impact on how your margins were in Q4, or is it like immediate basis? It is basically lag effect for 15 to 25 days because in the institutional sale, we are having inventory of 2.5 months, but we are having the active order position for three to four months. Same case with the retail. Every 15 days we are revising the prices. There is a lag effect of 15 to 25 days. Okay. Okay. On a blended basis, it's fair to assume 20-25 days is the lag effect, right? On an average, when you average out for a year, it will not impact actually. Okay. Okay. Sir, just if I may just ask this one last one question. Now, as you mentioned the target INR 250 -INR 300 crore annual CapEx for the next two to three years, given that the prices are currently, I'm sure compared to last year's prices currently would be lower given that aluminum and copper prices are now lower. On this additional CapEx for the next to three years, what sort of asset turn can we expect in terms of revenue addition on current base? See, the asset turn in our industry in the initial year is 1:4, then it goes to 1:5. That is in the cable section. If you include the wire, then it is 1:6. Okay. 1:6 at, is at the highest, potential you mean, the highest utilization? For the cable division products, it's a fair, reasonable assessment is 1: 5. Sure, sir. Understood. Thank you very much, sir. I'll get back in queue. All the very best. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Aequitas Investments. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. My first question is in regards to the EHV cable. What kind of demand are we seeing and, how is the export market for the same? In the EHV cable, last year because of the execution delay, our sale was little bit low as compared to 2021-2022. As of now we have the strong order book position of more than INR 850 crore. It is very good position now, and the demand is also very good. In this financial year we will be doing close to INR 550 -INR 600 crore of sale for that. I would say power will allow. Okay. Where is the demand? Basically it's domestic or it's international also for the same? Domestic as well as international also. Okay. In terms of House Wire, what kind of inventory is there at the distributor levels and how do we see the entire scenario? At any given point of time, whenever we were discussing the inventory or the dealer distributor, they will not be having more than 15-25 days inventory. 15, 20 days. Yeah, 15-25 days. Okay. In terms of raw materials, basically what kind of decrease in cost have we seen on a QoQ basis? Going forward, what would be your guidance? We cannot guide for the raw material price for the future because it is the international LME rates. If we compare for the Q4 of this current year versus last year Q4, the copper was decreased by 10% as the LME rate. Okay. Thank you. That's it from my end. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mr. Pranav from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Just one question regarding the volume growth that you talked about at 13%, considering the copper prices would have declined by say around 1%-1.3% on a year-over-year basis. Whenever- Sorry. Sir, you were talking of the volume, we are talking only for the volume. We cannot correlate with the price because price is separate and the volume is separate. If you could just give a breakup of what the volume and, price, volume is at 13% and price was kind of declining a little since year-on-year. Yeah. LME is at 10% price decline. For Q4 year-on-year basis. For full year, the LME decreased by 12%. Okay. Yeah. Okay. The aluminum LME has also decreased by close to 9% for the full year basis. Basically, for full year basis, the copper LME decreased by 12% and aluminum decreased by 9%. Thank you. We move to our next question. Our next question is from the line of Abhineet Anand from Emkay Global Financial Service. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. I just want to understand, you know, over the last five, six years, we have had a very decent growth of anywhere between 13%-18%. But on the margin side, it has ranged at 10.5% to 10 ± certain basis points. When does the operating leverage actually kick in? Is, I mean, to 11% or 11.5%. Can you please guide on that? In future when this greenfield CapEx will be done and the commercial production from there will be started. Our administrative overhead and the head office overhead will not increase to that extent and the marketing expenses also will not increase to that extent. That in next five years' time, by 2026, 2027, our EBITDA margin will improve by at least 1.5%. Currently we are at 10.5%, you're saying that. On an absolute basis, you're saying this or for the Currently, we are having close to 10.5%-11%. Actually, it depends on the volatility of the raw material price. otherwise it is. Sometimes it is 11%, sometimes it is 10.75%, like this. There is basically it is 1.5% increase. This, is it for the incremental supply you are seeing from Silvassa or as a whole you are- As a whole, because company is same, the people sitting same. Okay. In next five years, that will be this level, 10.5%, 11%, 10% go to 12.5%. Yes. You see, we are more focusing on the absolute number because we don't want that we should not increase in terms of the value and we increase the margin, but the absolute number will not be there. We are focusing that we should grow at least 15%-17% kind of range in terms of the value, even though we can increase little bit in the EBITDA and the PAT, because our interest cost is not increasing even though our sales is increasing. Ultimately our PAT is increasing year-on-year basis. PAT for the interest. Yes, yes. Ultimately the cash profit available to the company is more year-on-year basis. Is it fair to assume that with the new large plant coming up, and as you, sir, told that around INR 250 -INR 300 crore for the next three years. It is like INR 800 -INR 1,000 crore investment, right? Yes. For the next three years. All will be from internal accrual, because right now we are having close to INR 400 -INR 500 crore balance available with the company. Every year we are accruing close to INR 600 crore cash profit. Okay. Just on the current capacity wise, while you did mention, you know, in terms of the utilization capability at 91%, even if we were to this Silvassa plant, INR 45 crore, I suppose, you know, benefits would probably come in H2 of this year, right? Not in H1. No, in H1 also. In H1 also. Last year we invested around INR 98 crore. Close to INR 45 crore we invested in Silvassa alone. That capacity has already increased because of that. Already come up. Yeah, that has already come up. From April onward we are taking the bill from there. We did actually two greenfield CapEx in Silvassa. One has completed and one will complete in September. Okay. The one that you have done was INR 98 crore. The second will be of INR 45 crore. Did I understand that? That's how we are targeting growth of 16%, 17% on the basis of the capacity available in the wire and the cable, and the brownfield CapEx. Thank you. Mr. Abhineet Anand, may we request you to join the question queue for follow-up questions, as there are several participants waiting for their turn. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to one or two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we would request you to rejoin the queue. Our next question is from the line of Srinidhi from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity, congratulations on good set of numbers. Just one clarification on CapEx. We're guiding for INR 250 -INR 300 crore this year. Does that include INR 45 crore brownfield CapEx at Silvassa? No, that is in addition to that. Okay. Probably then INR 300 -INR 350 crore FY 2024 CapEx, right? Yes. Okay. Second, sir, I think we gave overall volume growth for the cable and wire business. Is it possible to break that into the wires business? Like, how much is it for House Wire and for quarter and the full year? The wire is 13%. That is for Q4 we said, right? Q-Q4. For full year, sir? For full year, the wire is 31%. Okay. Okay. Last, sir, we had a very good improvement in the working capital in last couple of years. Do you see there is scope to improve working capital intensity further? On both inventory as well as receivable days. Inventory will remain the same level, but the receivable days, which is right now is 2.4 months. In the current financial year it will be, it will reach to 2.2 months. Okay. Because of our retail will increase. Right. Inventory, sir, particularly has come down a lot. Wondering can these levels sustainable? Yeah, this level is sustainable. Okay, cool. Last, sir, may I ask the order backlog breakers? I couldn't note it down. Order backlog is INR 3,568 crore, out of which EPC is INR 946 crore. Extra High Voltage power cable, which is include the cable as well as the EPC portion. It is INR 850 crore. Domestic cable institutional order book is INR 1,740 crore. Export order for the cable is INR 332 crore. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Keyur from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance. Please go ahead. Thank you. Two questions. First is on the EHV cable, we have seen zero for FY 2023, and now I think you are guiding for much higher number for FY 2024. What transpired in FY 2023 and why it will come back in 2024? That is first question. Second question, when you talk about 16%-17% overall revenue growth, what segments will go above, say, the average and what will drag the overall revenue growth? Just a bit of office. See, in Extra High Voltage cable, we had orders in FY 2023. A lot of large orders could not be executed because the clearances from the transmission utility and the right of the way permissions were not there. Hence it could not be converted into sales. Presently the order book of Extra High Voltage cable is INR 850 crore and even the new orders will be putting in further. We are absolutely confident that of achieving around INR 600 crore sales in this financial year. Second question was? 16%, 17%- 16%, 17% growth will be. It will be majorly coming from low tension cables and House Wire sections. Also we have the capacities in HD and DHD also. Overall, we have projected a growth of around 16%-17% in FY 2024. Sir, just one follow-up on this. When you say 91% capacity utilization in cables overall, and while B2B segment is growing, but B2C real estate has seen some kind of slowdown, overall slowdown. Plus we have reached a certain scale. In that context, how practical is it to grow, say, retail slash, buyers of House Wire segment on a company level at best? You see, for company, whether we grow in Extra High Voltage, we grow in export, we grow in Low Tension, High Voltage, because as of now we are only just a projection. Overall, in the past also sometimes we have grown in export, sometimes we have more grown in the retail, sometimes we have more grown in the institutions wire and cable. These kind of things will remain as it is. We don't know, see, this sector will grow more, this sector will not grow more. Overall because you see, as a institutional sales in a year, we are serving more than 2,000 clients, institutional clients in a year. We are having more than 1,900 dealer distributor all across the country. We are having our sale and export market more than 60 countries, and the U.S. has been added in this. The very diversified customer base which we are having, on that basis in the last 15 years also we have grown by 14%-15% CAGR. Now we are projecting a 16%-17% growth which we are already doing a lot so many years. Okay. Thanks a lot and all the best. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, sir. My question is, how much of the revenue for a full year for EHV EPC revenue? Full year EHV EPC revenue, please note down. INR 147 crore as against INR 128 crore last year. EHV EPC. Oh, okay. regarding clarification on the EHV order book, that is, how much is that? That's, INR 350 or INR 850? INR 850. INR 850 crore. Okay. Lastly, Sir, you had earlier guided for the House Wire growth of 17%-18% for 2024. Is it largely? No, no. Your- 2024 we have guided the overall sale of 16%-17%. Overall. In the earlier call, actually you had given some House Wire number for 17%-18%. You are revising to lower numbers, or that is largely, on the volume side only you are guiding for? No, for the guidance. Mm-hmm. We will be growing more than the average company sales. In the past also we have grown more than in the House Wire segment. Like in the current year, we have grown 20%, but the House Wire sales grown by 23%. In future also, that trend will remain same. Okay. That's largely on a volume growth. At present you are talking of the value, so I'll take you to the value first. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Devansh Nigotia from SiMPL. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Could you elaborate a bit more on the export opportunities that you mentioned, especially the emphasis on U.S., and what are the sectors which are gaining significant traction in exports? In exports, because we are dealing in so many countries. Earlier we were not approved in the U.S. market. Now our few of the products related to power cable and the solar cable has been approved. The HV cable also. The HV cable also approved by the U.S. market. We will be starting exporting to U.S. market at this time. Basically, we need to take certain approval from the Underwriters Laboratories in U.S. To sell in U.S., you need UL approval for this specified product, which we have obtained after a effort of around two years. Can become eligible to sell in the market. Hence the distributors over there are approaching us now, and we have already commenced sales from January 23 onwards and continuing. Sir, I have a question because a lot of export, exporting cables have been significant traction in last three to six months. Is it like perhaps it is only the company-wide acceptances that we have received or overall for India there has been some significant change in the, you know, preference towards the Indian supplier, in exports of cable. Has anything of that played out? Any perspective you can share over here? Of course. I mean, a good acceptability of Indian products has come in the developed countries and, Hence we are having the opportunities for that. Which sector are gaining traction in export cable? There is no significant sector. Power cables and solar cables. Power and solar cables. Okay. In case of HV cables, we mentioned the order backlog of INR 850 crores, but our execution was low. Can you elaborate a bit more on the demand environment where this is mainly domestic demand or it also includes export? See, at the moment we are only talking of domestic demand. Thank you. Mr. Devansh, may we request you to join the queue as there are other participants waiting there as well. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Ravi Purohit from Securities Investment Management Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on good set of numbers. Just what, you know, most of my questions have been answered. Just wanted to kind of, you know, deeply understand between 2019 and now, you know, what would, what would have been like our overall aggregate volume growth versus price growth? Because I mean prices are like still 40%, 50% higher in terms of underlying commodities like copper and all. If you have like a three-year or a four-year view, between volume and value, how much would the two, one count for? Every year close to 13% to 15% volume growth is there. It's, like in the last financial year, if the prices are stable, so like our volume growth is also 20% last year, and then the value growth is also 20%. Right. If the price in a particular year got something different, but otherwise on an average the price is almost similar. See, if I look at 2019, our overall revenue was just a little over INR 4,000 crore. Right now a little less than INR 7,000 crore. That's about a 65% jump over a four-year period. Commodity prices are also like 40% higher, 45% higher. What was, let's say, per kilo price of copper or aluminum four years back, it is probably like, you know, 40% higher even today. In that sense, would you say that volume growth would have been slower, I mean, much lower over a four-year period average? In 2017-2018 versus 2018-2019, the copper was going down. 2018-2019 versus 2019-2020, again copper going down. Since 2019-2020 versus 2020-2021 started copper going up. It is on an average. Sometimes copper goes down also, sometimes copper goes up also. We need to have growth in terms of the value. As a company, we are always focusing on the value. Whether copper has gone down or copper has gone up, we are maintaining the growth of 15%-17% year-on-year basis. If you talk of this 2018-2019, we have grown more than 20%. In 2019-2020, again we grown more than 18%, 19%, 20%. Even those are, both the years our copper prices was going down. For us, because we need to have the balance sheet in terms of rupee, we need to maintain the profit and we need to maintain the sale in terms of value. Okay. That's how we are increasing our customer base, increasing our geography for the products to market, whether it's exports or in domestic market or in retail markets, that's how. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. All the best, sir. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mr. Achal Lohade from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Just two questions. One is, you know, a clarification on the recent comments you just made with respect to the value growth. If I were to ask you, sir, if the copper price were to be down, say, 20% in FY 2024, when you are talking about focusing on value growth, does that mean that the volume growth, you will try to grow by 25%-30%? How do we understand the pricing? If anything goes exceptional, nobody can control. If it is in the range of the normal fluctuation, then it will be controlled. Right. Example, if your share market crashes, then how you will control the portfolio profit? Got it. sir, in terms of the pricing, when you are. Normally, if the last year the correction was 10% range, then it is manageable. If it is 20% correction, then it will not be manageable. In terms of value also we will hit. Maybe from 16%, 17%, we may go to 11%, 12%. It will not be the case we will be flat. In last 15 years, it was 2009 also, 2013 also, 2020 also. Every year was there and we have grown average CAGR growth of 14%-15% in the last 15 years. Here and there are all kind of fluctuations. The numbers are available with you for 15 years for our value chain. Understood. Sir, just a clarification on the pricing. You know, you work on your prices, or the margin on a rupees per meter or rupees per unit or? No, sir, we maintain our EBITDA margin in terms of percent. Percent. We calculate the cost of material and expense, then we load our margin. That's how it is going on in the industry. Even for the industry. Understood. Yeah. Just one clarification on the export, sir. Which are the top five countries and what's their contribution, and how much of our total exports is under own brand? All our exports are under our own brand. We have not exported any product in somebody else brand. Our top export markets are Australia, Middle East. In Middle East, basically Abu Dhabi and Kuwait. Thirdly, you know, a few African countries in which Nigeria and Ghana are the main. Its contribution, the total contribution of these countries in the total export, would that be 60%, 70%? Yeah, around 60%. Got it. Thank you so much for the clarifications, sir. Wish you all the best. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Shubham Agarwal from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I was just listening to the call and our calculation shows that the incremental sales from greenfield CapEx that you will need to generate a 13.5% EBITDA margin for the overall company. Sorry. Margin lift, we need to lift the margin for the company by 1%, right, at the overall level. We need a 13.5% EBITDA margin on the incremental revenue that we get from the greenfield CapEx. I'm trying to understand what will help you generate this 13.5% EBITDA on the incremental sales from the greenfield. You know, the products are gonna be the same, right? Which Which are already generating 11% margin at the most. When we will be doing this CapEx, we will not increasing the fixed overhead like head office, people or the top management and the marketing. There is, because of that, the EBITDA expansion will be there, number one. Number two, our retail will increasing further, export will increase further, little bit EBITDA margin will be expansion will be from there. We are targeting not much EBITDA expansion, but we are targeting only 1.5% EBITDA margin in next four to five years. Okay. If you can just give me the volume of copper and aluminum consumed in FY 2023 by the company. Just a minute. The total metal consumed is 81,800 metric tons in 2022, 2023, as compared to 68,000 metal consumed in 2021, 2022. Okay. This includes software and aluminum profiles. Yeah, both. Okay. Thank you. That's all from my side. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mr. Raj from Ambit. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Two questions from my side. First is if you can give any color on the active dealers. What has been the expansion for this year, and what is your guidance for the next two to three years as you are increasing the retail mix as a percentage of your sales? Last year our dealer expansion was close to 6% because we were having 1,800 number and 1,900. This year also we are targeting at least 100-150 dealer distributor to be adding in this financial year. As a percentage, that would be... Close to 7%, 8% our target to increase number of dealer distributors. Because that is the net. They're strengthening the existing-. Strengthening the existing dealer actually, because we are more focusing to strengthening the dealer. Wherever the big dealers are there, we are replacing with the new dealer. Okay. Okay. Yeah, the second question is that, when you see the cost margin or the raw material mix as a percentage of your sales, that used to be around 70% pre-COVID or up to 2020. Now we are seeing that increase to 73%-74%. Because- How do you see this going forward? No, no, because you see the EBITDA margin in our case, because earlier the EPC still was higher. In EPC the material was less and manpower cost and the contracting cost was more. Okay. going forward, these types of raw material. Margin will be on a EBITDA basis, actually. Okay. Okay. Just to get to this, so the percentage would remain same going forward, as it has been delivered so far? Depend on the product to product basis. like in EHV voltage is something different, tire is something different, cable is something different. It's not like that. Okay. Also, if you can say in which pockets are we seeing more increasing demand from solar or from the data centers or where has been the demand been very strong going forward or is currently quite strong? The demand is very strong from the data centers. You know, this 5G network which is coming up. Metro rails, urban rail transportation systems and the railways as a whole. The highways construction where there lot of overhead lines are removed to make them underground. That is also a big opportunity. Lot of tunnel ventilation projects are coming up in the railways, and new railway lines and also the highways, which consumes substantial amount of cables. Apart from that, solar power is a big opportunity. Power distribution and transmission companies are buying a lot. To the, and the next is, you know, and the industry, like steel and, expansion in steel, cement, petrochemical, oil and gas, CapEx by all the oil companies. These are the major opportunities which drives the cable consumption. Thank you. Mr. Raj, may we request you to join the question queue for follow-up questions. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mr. Hardik Rawat from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead. To ask the question, sir. Hello, Mr. Rawat. You can ask your question, please. Yeah. Can you hear me? Hello. Yes. Yes, Yes, we can hear you. Yeah. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. My question was with regards to the metal consumption that you just stated. You've stated that roughly you've consumed about 81,800 metric tons of metal. I presume that aluminum and copper are the two main metals that you source. I just wanted to understand if you could give me a rough breakdown for what percent of it would be aluminum and copper. That data is not available right now. We will give you later. The total metal consumption is available. That is 81,800 and versus 67,900. All right. Based on the estimates that you've given, you expect the EHV segment to grow roughly by about 50%-60% in terms of sales value. Do you see that mix of sourcing changing? No, no, nothing changes. We are having the capacity to produce close to INR 650 crore worth of material of EHV. We were having the order last year also. The issue was the clearances from the companies, those who are buying from us, that is the transmission companies, that was not available. Either their site was not ready or something else. At present we are having order book of INR 850 crore. Again, we cannot produce more than INR 650 crore. You see? This is the year beginning. Lots of new order will also come. We will be easily selling INR 600 crore worth of material for XI voltage, power cable, EHV. Absolutely. One last question, if you'll allow me. What are the major countries that you source your metals from? Like top, two, three countries if you can mention. Can you repeat the question? Two to three countries from which you are sourcing the metals that you consume. The raw materials we are sourcing or what we are exporting? Raw materials. Raw metals. We are majorly sourcing our metal requirement from India, especially copper from Hindalco and Vedanta, and aluminum also from Hindalco and Vedanta and Nalco. Small quantity is being imported, which is against advanced licenses, against exports. We are definitely importing XLPE compounds and some other specialized materials for special cables and Extra High-Voltage cables Thank you, Mr. Hardik. We move to the next question. Our next question is from the line of Harsh Shah from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Can you just provide the interest in checkup for the quarter? Please note down. For this quarter, the working capital interest is close to INR 7.77 crore, and the bank charges is close to INR 2.5 crore. Okay. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Akshay Kothari from Envision Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the supply side. Apart from the major players we know, on the organized side, which are also doing a lot of CapEx on the wires and cables, are we seeing any supply from the unorganized/unbranded players also coming up? In the cable, there is no unbranded because cable is a approval-based process. No. We are not aware of any unorganized player coming up significantly in the CapEx for further expansion of their capacity. Okay. Based on your experience in this industry, whenever there is a supply, so supply actually comes at a point of time, and then, you know, demand will come over a period of time. Do we see any downward pressure on the margins in the initial phase of the utilization? So far we have not seen, but we don't know the future market. Understood. Lastly, sir, we are the sponsors for RCB, and how has been the response from the southern market post this investment? Actually, It has been good, basically this sponsorship in RCB or cricket is not, you know, region-specific. It is for all India basis. Ultimately, spectators who see cricket, they see all over the country, the major medium is either TV or digital. How many people goes into the stadium to see, watch the matches? It is the major effect comes from TV or digital media. The OTT digital media where nowadays people are watching these cricket or matches, et cetera, on digital or the TV. Can you just tell me advertisement expense as a percent of, say, how much? On a yearly basis we do around INR 35-INR 38 crore. It is around 0.5% or over 6%. Okay. Understood. Thanks a lot and all the best. Thank you. Our next question is on the line of Prashant Kothari from Pictet. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Just two questions. One is that the dealer distribution channel revenue as a percent of, 40 what's happening. The growth was about 31% in the second quarter, 25% in the third quarter, and now just 15%. Is it a slowdown or is that channel mix? Sir, repeat your question. What is it? No. you said that in Q4 it was 15%. That is what your question is. Yeah. It used to be much high earlier on. Is this slowdown in that? You know what happened, because of the continuous decrease in the copper prices, there was a little bit of destocking at the distribution level. Hence primary sales, went down in the fourth quarter. I am sure that the stock levels in the distribution sales, distributor sales is very, very low, it will pick up. Do you expect higher growth rate in the as in? Yeah. Always it will be higher because in the last year also as a overall growth, the dealer distributor business is higher as compared to the total sale of, total increase in the sale. In the future also, the same kind of trend will remain same. For a particular quarter we cannot say, but for the full year basis, our dealer distributor sales will be higher for the growth. Okay. Understand, sir. On the working capital side, excellent management of the working capital so far. You also said that the future cash accruals will be used for CapEx versus working capital. Are we thinking that the working capital days will expand going forward? See, only the inventory will remain the same. Only the receivable cycle, which right now has reduced to 2.4 months, which will further reduce to 2.2 months. Thank you. That was the last question for the question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thank you very much, dear friends, for patiently listening to this investor call. I again reassure you that we are on the right track. We are very, you know, focused on our business and with the growth in the economy and the demand in the international markets, the company will continue to grow as guided. There may be some deviation in the growth rate in different product lines, but overall, growth will be maintained as guided. If you still have any further questions, you can always reach out to us. Thank you very much for your patience. Patiently listening to us. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. On behalf of Monarch Networth Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.