Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Ashiana Housing Limited Q1 FY23 earnings conference call. At this moment, all participants are in the listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. At that time, you may click on the Raise Hand icon from the toolbar at the bottom of your screen to ask a question. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Binay Sarda from Ernst & Young. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Inba. Welcome to the Q1 FY23 earnings call of Ashiana Housing Limited. Please note that this webinar is being recorded, and the transcript of the webinar will be made available in a week's time from the call. The results and investor presentation have been mailed to you, and it is also available on the stock exchanges. In case anyone does not have a copy of the same, please do write to us, and we'll be happy to send it over to you. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that our discussion today might contain forward-looking statements. While these forward-looking statements represent our current judgment on what the future holds, they are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which reflect our opinion only as on the date of this presentation. Please keep in mind that we are not obligating ourselves to revise or publicly release the results of any revision to these forward-looking statements in light of new information or future events. To take us through the results of this quarter and answer your questions, we have today with us Mr. Varun Gupta, whole-time Director of the company, and Mr. Vikash Dugar, CFO. Mr. Vikash will make his opening remarks, and then we'll move to the Q&A. During the course of the opening remarks, all investors will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity to ask questions once the opening remark concludes. With that said, I'll now hand over the floor to Mr. Vikash. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Binay. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope all of you and your families are keeping healthy. I welcome you to discuss the performance of the first quarter of FY23 for Ashiana Housing Limited. Thank you for joining the call today. The year started with promising numbers. Area booked recorded in Q1 FY23 was 3.34 lakh sq ft, as compared to 1.51 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY22. Value of area booked also went up to INR 152.14 crores in the quarter gone by, vis-à-vis INR 52.2 crores in quarter one of the last year. Average realization went up to INR 4,557 per sq ft in the quarter gone by, as compared to INR 3,460 per sq ft in quarter one last year, driven by increasing prices across projects and changing mix towards higher priced projects. Villas were launched in Ashiana Tarang, Bhiwadi, during the quarter, and also, shops were opened up for sale in Ashiana Amantran in Jaipur. We handed over 2.11 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY23, out of which 43,000 sq ft was delivered in partnerships. This was against a delivery of 81,000 sq ft in Q1 FY22. Total revenue increased to INR 81.22 crores in the quarter gone by, vis-à-vis INR 78.28 crores in quarter four of FY22. The higher revenue was attributable to higher deliveries in AHL, which was at 1.68 lakh sq ft versus 1.14 lakh sq ft. Total comprehensive income also improved to positive INR 10.29 crores in Q1 FY 2023, vis-à-vis positive INR 9.22 crores in Q4 FY 2022. Pre-tax operating cash flows was recorded at INR 27.72 crores, positive, 27.72 crores in Q1 FY 2023, vis-à-vis INR 27.48 crores, again positive in Q4 FY 2022. Equivalent area constructed was at 3.85 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY 2023, versus 5.07 lakh sq ft in Q4 FY 2022, and 2.89 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY 2022. We bought one new land parcel in Bhankarota, Jaipur, of 8.08 acres in the quarter gone by. Total potential saleable area in this parcel will be around 650,000 sq ft. There, there might be delays in deliveries by a quarter vis-à-vis expected customer handover date in eight projects, which we have also shared in the presentation, and in one of the projects, there might be a delivery in one quarter prior to what we have promised to the customers. On this note, I would like to conclude my remarks. We will now be happy to discuss any questions or suggestions that you may have. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, please click on the Raise Hand button on the toolbar or the Q&A tab and click Raise Hand. The operator will announce your name when it is your turn to ask a question. We would request participants to please unmute your microphone while proceeding with your questions. Participants may also ask a question via text from the Q&A tab by clicking on the Text Chat option. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may click on the Raise Hand button on the toolbar on the Q&A tab. We'll take the first question from Piyush Goyal from India Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, am I audible? Yes, sir. Yes, you are, Piyush. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Hi, guys. My question is that, given Gurgaon Amarah project is fairly substantial in scale for your plans next few years, and given the past experience in Sohna, which is... has been kind of a mixed bag, can we spend a few minutes on what are some of the learnings from Sohna that you're looking to kind of make sure that Amarah is a big success? That's one part of the question. And second is, what is going to be Ashiana Amarah's competitive positioning versus the peers in that new Gurgaon Dwarka Expressway micromarket, versus the peers? Would like to hear your thoughts there. Thank you. I'll take that, Piyush. I've been quite involved, actually, personally, in Ashiana Anmol and now Ashiana Amarah. I think, 2-3 learnings from Ashiana Anmol. I think in Ashiana Anmol, we didn't adopt our sales and marketing strategies as per the market as much, okay? That said, we didn't want to copy everything blindly in the market, but I think some of the aspects of the market, we did not adopt. The moment we got that sorted, I think if you see, quarter-on-quarter sales now in Ashiana Anmol, I think we sold nearly 100,000 sq ft last in the last quarter. It's been a significant change, and I think this quarter should be even better in Ashiana Anmol. We are launching phase III of Ashiana Anmol as well. So I think, one learning was that. Second learning, I think, is been across our locations, I think it takes. What we understand is now the gestation period for the Ashiana brand to get established is about five to six years. Here also, we launched Ashiana Anmol in calendar year 2015, early part of calendar year 2015. And you know, it took about till October 2020, when sales started really ramping up, but once, once people have seen our product, once the brand is experienced, I think, we, we, we stand out, a little bit, from the market in terms of the kind of quality of, work we're able to deliver. Ashiana Amarah has three, four clear positioning perspective that we have. I think from A, largely, there is two, two, three things. One, in A- Ashiana Anmol, and here also, both are kid-centric homes, which are positioned as the best place to bring up your family, and with the right kind of amenities, the right kind of services. The other also is the brand is positioned aspirationally. It's, it's something that you're stretching yourselves to buy i-at, at, in the, in the consumer audience that we have. And then the... Of, of the features of the project which support these two, three kind of positioning, there are three items that are there. One, child-centric amenities and services, so that we have multiple, over there. It's the first kid-centric homes that we have also done clean slate design with. I think, you know, we got a master planner who is specialist in child-friendly architecture, so she master planned the project along with the right. You know, we chose the architect, the master planner, and the landscape consultant and gave them this kind of a brief to work with. So some of the design features are also very unique around that. Second, part of it is that, the spaces are a lot more lavish. You know, the flats are lavish. There is a deck. The park areas is like, you know, it's we have 6.7 acres of one single contiguous park, which is also not, it's not very intimidating, but, and large at the same time, the way it's designed and put together. Third is thoughtful design, and little things have been thought through in the project. So I think when we put all those three kind of features put together, looking for an aspirational positioning, along with a view that this is the best place to raise your family in the entire city. And we are, we, we have received RERA of phase I of Ashiana Amarah. We're launching in a couple of weeks, so we'll also know how it goes from here. Understood. That, that's quite helpful. And is there sort of any... I think you started using channel partners in Gurgaon, which you otherwise don't use in most other cities. Is that going to be the strategy for Amarah as well? Yes, we are going to use channel partners. So when I said we didn't adopt sales and marketing strategies, I think the one of the things that we did not adopt in Gurgaon was using a channel partner network, and which we learnt, you know, we started in November 2019 in Ashiana Anmol. And now we will continue to engage channel partners. But the thing that we really wanted to control and our resistance, and I think we needed to find a solution which would... We wanted to give the consumer the right experience and the right information. We wanted to control exactly the information that was given. And, you know, with the channel partners, we were a little fearful as to, you know... How much of that experience and, information to the consumers will be controlled. So what we did was we made a strategy that the sales execution piece will be carried out by our team. So the channel partner brings in the customer, but the conduct of the visit of the project, the briefing of the project, is carried out by our team, and that keeps control over, the communication and engagement, and we also know our customer very well. So we found that solution, and we continue to do that. Understood. My second question is around land acquisition. You had mentioned in the last call and in the last few calls, that the prices have shot up a lot, and you're finding it hard to do deals that justify the prospective returns. You said especially in Jaipur, you are finding hard. You've announced a deal in Jaipur recently. Is there any update on sort of any change in the environment for land? Have you sort of reduced your hurdle rate while sort of saying, you know, because pricing power is kicking in, maybe we can pay up for land a little bit? Or any updates on sort of what's happening in the land across your two or three big markets? Okay. So right now, I think the most activity is happening in Jaipur. We are evaluating more projects there. We signed up one. We have been working on that for about 10, 12 months already, and we are working on a few more. I think the key aspect that I would say on the land front in Jaipur is to, what I would say is, find pockets where we believe Ashiana can create value. So, it's land prices are up, they haven't fallen down. So that it makes our job that much harder. Like, it's like, you know, if I come from a investor's perspective, if the entire, you know, market has become expensive to buy, and you find valuations rich, you have to work extra hard to find those pockets of of value, if that's the way to put it, where you can buy and invest. And the same thing applies to us, is that when the entire land prices have gone up, we have to find sort of those locations where we believe we can get a differential sales price, whether for brand or whether product we'll bring in, or, or the location or a combination of a few things, and we have to rack our brains as to what to do. So we put together a strategy to look at other parcels in Jaipur, where we believe, we can create, we can create value, for the consumer, and also therefore charge a little bit of a higher price and therefore make sense of some land parcels. So we've been working on those, thinking right now. So hopefully we'll do a couple of more transactions in Jaipur over the next, let's say, 6-10 months. Understood. Thank you. That, that's all from my side. Thank you, Varun. Thank you, Vikash. Yeah. Thank you, Piyush. Thank you. We will take our next question from Rohith Potti from Marshmallow Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. So, so last one, two years have been very interesting in the sense that we have seen the sales go through the roof, which is very, which is very good for us. But at the same time, the construction costs have gone even more through the roof, I would say. So I'm just curious to know, so in a way, we are being penalized for a... Is it a situation that we are being penalized for our good projects which have sold well, because maybe our margins will be compressed going forward for them, the price at which we have sold them? So, could you speak about that? How do you look at the IRR and the margins for the projects that are under construction right now and where, where we've already sold? Rohith, I think I've spoken on this before. I think margins are more compressed where land deals were done, you know, 2013-2017. You know, even some of the projects might be coming up now. Let's say Ashiana Malhar is a project which is getting launched now, which we had done the deal in, I think March 2017 or September 2017, something like that. I'm not sure exactly, but somewhere in 2017. As compared to, let's say, when we have done transactions 2018 onwards, and the projects have been launched, let's say Ashiana Daksh, as a project's been launched, which was a transaction that closed in 2018. Even though we launched, we sold everything at launch and then construction costs have gone up, our returns on those projects are still good. I think the land prices played a more definitive role. And in my view, and I said, inflation is a trend right now. I think overall sales price increases are higher than construction cost increases. You can see the sales price also changing for us in the quarterly sales. Some of it is because of mix, but a lot of it is also because of we've been able to increase prices substant ally. So, and I would not like to comment on each and every project, but at this, as I said earlier, at this point or time, the goal for the company is to get to a 15% return on equity number. Given where we are, it is still a tough ask, a sustainable 15% ROE. But, you know, I think, as I've been telling earlier, double-digit now ROEs seem very much, reasonable and likely. We are putting energies and effort to get to a 15% return on it.... Well, that was very good to know. So in general, we've been hearing that the recent increase in construction costs is making some of the existing projects not so profitable as initially envisaged, and it's good to know that we are not going through that issue. Yeah, sorry. I know, but I think one of the key things is if you construct quickly after launch, you'll face less of those challenges. So, you know, we have gone ahead and constructed, so we have a lesser of a challenge over there. Perfect, that's helpful. And, how does the supply look in all our major markets? Is it increasing materially? Because you've been talking about how inflation is a friend, and we are seeing higher price increases as compared to construction cost increase. Is the supply also increasing in terms of new launches by competition, et cetera? Right now, I think supply is still constrained. It's not increasing. If I see, more and more supply is still coming in the plotted layout spaces in Jaipur and Gurgaon, I think, which are going to be our two largest markets in terms of, you know, group housing, kid-centric homes, premium homes in that category, as of today, we've seen. These two markets have seen more layout launches and less built-up unit launches, so I think built-up area apartment supply still remains to be constrained. The other markets where I think now increasingly for us, senior living is a more important space, whether it's Bhiwadi, where senior living has become a larger part of revenues, Chennai, where senior living is driving, and Jamshedpur as a market is anyway supply constrained because of the land title issues, and therefore, creating supply is difficult. Right now, I don't see supply-side challenges, for us. Perfect. And- Pune, in general, I think also will take some time for us for it to become a large market for us. So, Pune is somewhere where I hear some launches have come in, where oversupply can become an issue, maybe going forward in about 24-36 months. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. That's, that's interesting to know. Could you share the launch pipeline for this year? So you mentioned Amarah will be launching in the next couple of weeks. What about other locations like Pune and others? I will share three particular projects where we have RERA, and we're looking to launch two more. Vikasji can give exact numbers of what we plan to launch in various phases in different... So we have RERA received for Ashiana Amarah Phase I, Ashiana Advik Phase I. Ashiana Advik is the senior living project in Bhiwadi. And we have RERA received for Malhar in Pune, and Malhar is already launched for expression of interest as of today. So those three projects are definitely Phase I are getting launched. Other than that, I think Vikash can give a little bit more detailed sense of what we are launching. Yeah. So, I think if I recall correctly, then in the last earnings call also, we had shared that we have a launch pipeline of around 25 lakh, roughly 25 lakh, plus kind of a number. And that includes both new projects, that is greenfield projects, and also the future phases of the presently ongoing projects. Now, that is the kind of number that we are targeting. And if you talk about the new greenfield project, then Amarah, you talked about Malhar. Amarah, of course, are the nearest one. Then Advik, it's a senior living project in Bhiwadi that is planned. Then another senior living project in Pune also is planned. Then there is one project in Jaipur that we are planning, Ashiana Ekansh, somewhere around December or January, Q3 or early Q4 is what we are planning. Then there is also a project in Jaipur, which is 100,000-odd sq ft kind of plan, which is there, Ashiana Greenwood. It is a part of the earlier launched project called Ashiana Greenwood. Then there are two projects in Chennai also that we are planning. These are the kind of plans that we have. Chennai, of course, both of them are senior living projects. All in all, this number in my sense should be somewhere around, in terms of square footage, roughly maybe 12 to 13, 14 lakh kind of a number, ballpark, square footage. Vikash, so these are phase I of planned launches, not the whole projects. Like, Ashiana Amarah itself is 21 lakh sq ft. The phases that we plan to of the new launches is 12-13. You had also put together phase data of existing projects as well, right? If you have it. Yeah, so existing projects also would be roughly this kind of a number, 13-14 lakh sq ft, again, which would include Ashiana Shubham, senior living project in Chennai. Anmol Phase III, you already talked about, we are on the verge of launching. Then, there is one phase of Jodhpur Dwarka project, and then couple of launches in Jaipur as well, Gulmohar Villas and Umang Extension, Phase VI. So roughly, I think 13-14 lakh sq ft is the kind of plan there as well, the future phases in the presently ongoing projects. Perfect. So we are looking to launch about 2.5 million odd sq ft this year across various phases and... Perfect. Yeah, this is a very busy year then. My last question again is on the construction costs. So how is it trending right now? I mean, with the steel prices coming down, are we seeing a respite there? Is it better? ... You know, when something has gone up from INR 40- INR 80-INR 85, it comes down to INR 65-INR 67. It does feel like a little bit of a respite. But that said, you know, construction costs, what I would say are more stable right now. It's not increasing, so I wouldn't say there is respite. Because even though steel prices might have come off, other costs have not come off. And also in, like, finishing items, which where the costings were more or less constant, some increase in pricing there is coming, where people are also passing their input costs further. So, and labor costs are also revising upwards. There is inflation, which is leading to wage inflation as well. So I would say, it's. Has it become better than what it was three, four months ago? Yes. But you know, it's not like it's dipping or it's gonna reduce any further. Perfect. Thank you. I'll get back with you. It was very helpful. Thank you. Before we take our next question, we would like to remind participants, to ask a question, you may click on the Q&A tab and click on the Raise Hand button. We will take the next question from the line of Saurabh Gilda from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead. Hello? Yeah, hi, Saurabh. Am I audible? Yeah, yeah, you are audible, Saurabh. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, I just have one question, like, we have, we had our sales of around INR 154 crore in Q1, and you have laid out a very strong launch pipeline for the rest of the year. So just wanted to know, like, do we still stand by the guidance of INR 1,100 crore sales that we guided during the last quarter for FY23? And a related question to that would be, like, how do you see its sales trajectory for over the next, in medium term, let's say, 2-3 years. How do you see the sales panning out? So, Saurabh, we continue to target INR 1,100 crores of sales this year. Right now, the launch pipeline also gives us confidence with RERA in place for three of those projects. As I said, the 1,100 is dependent on launches. I think we need two to three more new projects, particularly Jaipur and Jamshedpur, to come together, as well, which are under approvals for that number to be met. As of now, it seems very likely that we should meet that. I think velocity should not be a concern, as you rightly mentioned. Sorry, just to add, I think it is the timing of the launches which will be critical. I don't see velocity being an issue. The momentum in terms of sales is very much there. Just to add. Thank you, Vikash. Second, bit was, On the sales trajectory, mainly. So the sales trajectory, right now, you know, according to us, we have probably about a INR 6,000-odd crore potential inventory for sale, you know, whereby launches are likely, approvals, which are not stuck. Some of the projects are stuck, you know, like Calcutta is stuck and Milakpur is stuck. Excluding those, roughly about INR 6,000 crores of inventory is there. Right now, the intent is to maintain, to maintain a INR 1,000 crore kind of a revenue run rate is to what we're looking at. I don't know how the next two years will pan out. We are working on what we see as potential, what launches we'll get there, and how we see doing that. But I think, the current view of the company is to maintain that number and then, ramp that up, as we go along. So it's getting more projects and putting that together. But, let's see, first, right now, our head is sort of... We're keeping our head down and trying to get to the FY 23 number more than anything else. Right. Right. Understood. And just to clarify, like, when you say you have inventory of INR 6,000 crore, so does it include all the planned launches that you laid out or? Yeah, total land bank. Total land bank, excluding some of the stuck assets. Okay. Okay, understood. Thank you. Thank you. That's all from my side. All the best for the- Thank you. We have one question on the text box. It says: Going by some of our comments today, as well as in previous con call, is it fair to say that we are looking at around INR 1,000 crore-INR 1,200 crore area book with net profit of around INR 100 crore? Does that mean our profitability would be more constrained in the current upcycle compared to the previous one? This is from Rahul Bhansali. Hi, Rahul. I wouldn't agree with that, that our profitability will be more constrained in this upcycle as compared to the previous upcycle. As I said, the newer projects will have better profits than some of the older projects. As more and more of those newer projects get lined up for launches and they come up for approvals and launches, I think profitability and margins will expand. I would refrain from commenting on exactly what that profitability will be at a revenue figure. Our annual report will be coming out. We'll report again some of the percentage and per square foot margins we make, depending on delivery. It will help you also to put together where you see our profitability to be. But I do believe that the upcycle should lead to margin expansion. I think, that's my belief, because, again, I believe we can raise prices, given the way markets are, and price increases should be faster than increase in construction costs, at this moment. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may please click on the Q&A tab and click on Raise Hand icon to ask a question. Our next question is from the line of Harsh Beria, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hi, am I audible right now? Yes, sir. Yes, Harsh, you are. Hi, congrats for working on a very, very good pipeline, and it, and it seems like INR 1,000 crore run rate should be maintainable given all the work we are doing. So congrats for that. My question was on margins, but not on the gross margin, margin, just excluding land cost. So, in the current projects we are selling, what is the kind of margins we are making, excluding construction costs? That would be very hard to say because, you know, a lot of the differential in the margin is driven by land cost. My opinion is, off the cuff, you know, because land cost, let's say you sell something at INR 5,000, okay? Your construction cost might be INR 2,200-INR 2,300. You bring that 5,000 down to, let's say, INR 3,800. Your construction cost still remains INR 1,900 a sq ft, right? So you know that, so typically, construction costs can range anywhere between 40%-55% of our sale price, so depending on where it is. Okay. So on a ballpark basis, so we should be able to do 25%-30% gross margins in the current sales which we are doing, assuming today's inflation doesn't go. Yes. So if you take sale value, less construction cost, less land cost, and less what we call project overheads, if you take those costs out, we should be operating between the 25%-30% range on our current projects. Some projects even better, like this quarter, if you go back to our gross margins, those were in the mid-40s%, if I remember correctly, on a blended basis, or early 40s%, again, because of one particular project where the land cost is very low, because it's a, you know, 12-year-old land purchase that we have in Ashiana Nirmay. So, you know, but outside of that, I think we'll generally be operating in that 25%-30% range . That's, that's really good to hear. And on a reported basis in FY 23, what is the kind of gross margins which we will report? So this may not reflect sales happening this quarter, but the sales that happened a couple of years back. Around that 25%-30% number, yeah, generally. So FY 2022, we will, you can- we, we'll give a little bit more breakup and threshold where it's easier to capture those numbers in the annual report. You can have a look at it. But 25-30 is where generally we'll be trending, depending on the project and the mix that we are. So, Harsh, just to add, we share this number in detail in our annual report, and our annual report is being drafted, and this would get shared in next two weeks at the most. So you'll get greater detail out there, and you can have a look. Perfect. That's really helpful. I'm looking forward to reading the annual report, as well. On a reported basis, we should be able to do INR 80 crore-INR 100 crore of PAT this year. I think we will share that number in a couple of more months; we'll give a guidance on it. So in the next call, we'll have a guidance on the same. Perfect. That's it from my side, and good luck with the project launches and sales for this year. Thank you, Harsh. Can I just add to the previous question, Harsh is must be in the queue there. So, Harsh, what we do is that we share the delivery timelines in our quarterly presentation. Also, you can get a sense as to what is the kind of delivery which is lined up. And you also get margin per sq ft kind of a number, gross margin per sq ft kind of a number in the annual report. You can try and have a look at those kind of numbers. That will give you some kind of a sense. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is a follow-up from the line of, Saurabh Gilda from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead. Yeah, hello. So I just had a follow-up regarding the comments you made earlier, like when you said margins are compressed on land deals which were done in 2013 to 2017 period. So, since then, like land prices would have actually gone up. So, isn't like, you know, opposite should have happened, like the margins must be accretive in parcels which were acquired in maybe 2013- 2017 period? You are on mute. ... your note. Sorry. Land prices are actually corrected between 2017 and 2020, up to 2021. So those four years, whatever we did, land prices were softer than the areas before that, whether in actual outright purchases or in joint ventures, you have the percentage that you had to give the landlord reduced. So now, like, you know, earlier projects, the—if it's a revenue share, a higher percentage is locked in. So even if sale prices have gone up, they've not covered the same, or your higher land cost was locked in. So those places, the things were constrained. So that's where it is at. Okay. Yeah, got it. That, that's helpful. Thank you. Thank you for the clarification. Thank you, Saurabh. We have a question on the chat board again. So it reads: Do you see any increase in competition in the senior living segment, maybe in the form of higher new launches or existing player pricing aggressively? This is from Arun Selvan. So on, senior living, we don't see a lot of challenge at this moment of time. Not a, not too many players have entered the space, and the space is also growing itself. So at this point of time, even if more competition comes in, I think they will grow the market, at least in the short term, as the market grows. So in terms of, excess supply, excess competition, driving down sale prices, that challenge, is not something that we see, we are seeing at this moment in time. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may click on the Q&A tab and click the Raise Hand icon, or you may also send in your text question via the Text Question option. We have a next follow-up question from the line of Harsh Beria, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hi. So, I think this question was asked, like, maybe a year or a year and a half back, as to, I think an investor was asking if it's better for him to buy a house in a senior living project of Ashiana or to buy Ashiana's stock today. What's your answer today? I had given the same answer on these decisions, listening to your spouse instead of making or listening to me on this decision. So we don't have any views on the same. I would be happy if you either bought both, but answer should have been that time also buy both. I wouldn't give an opinion on the same item. Thanks for the candid answer. So, yeah. Yeah. Another question is about, like, the capital intensity going forward. So I think last year we did, like, something like six or seven land deals. This year, we also going into a lot of land deals. We have, like, a credit line from IFC. So, how much do you think are we covered to pay upfront for these land costs to lock higher gross margins? And, how should we see the debt positioning of the company going forward? Do you guys want to take it up as you are doing a lot of land deals? We are well capitalized. Even after doing so many transactions, we are sitting on a lot of cash, Harsh. I don't see a challenge of capital being a challenge in doing transactions. If you do joint ventures, we require little cash anyways. If you're looking for outright purchases, then we can. Right now, the IFC's line is more or less exhausted. I think a little bit of capital is yet to come in, which is for the Chennai development. It's gonna come in a little bit of a stage, very thin sliver. Otherwise, that line from IFC is completely sort of exhausted now. So outside of that IFC line, our debt position is very little. We are, you know, we are net cash positive, if I exclude IFC's capital contribution into the company, into the projects. And, capital does not seem to be a constraint, though our preference will remain for joint venture transactions over outright purchases. But depending on the transaction, I think we have flexibility to do what we want to do today. Just wanted to add two things. One is that, you know, the IFC line is not exactly, not technically a credit line. It's a platform that we have signed with them, wherein there is a capital contributed by them. And what happens is that it is in a payable and payable structure. As in when only when the project generates the cash flows, we pay out to them. So those kind of terms and conditions are there. And we plan to deploy, you know, preferable mode would be JDM model only, joint ventures only. And if at all outright is required, then we have our own funds to deploy. So generally, we borrow only in case wherein we need to fund the project for working capital requirement. There also, the first preference is customer advances. If at all, there is any kind of bridge funding to be done depending in case there is the velocity of the project is sales velocity is slow and all, we, we do go for debt. So that's, that's our outlook on debt, by and large. So those are the two bits I just wanted to add. Yeah, and I think this has also reflected the capital positioning of the company, how you guys have managed the balance sheet in this whole downturn. I was just thinking that, like, you're trying to reach 12%-15% ROE. Can this not be a bit easier if we use debt more judiciously? So not to make the company bankrupt, that's not what I'm saying. But just to use the equity in a more efficient way, because having high ROICs in this sector is very hard. So for higher, higher ROEs, we need a judicious amount of debt. That's where I'm coming from. Harsh, point taken. Just, I think the capital structure needs to suit the temperament of the management team. And, I think it's one thing on an Excel sheet. I think capital structures also influence decision-making, which changes the ROIC on the project. I think one of the things that, when we look at finance in classical finance sense, we take the project economics to be independent of the capital structure, whether, you know... Will the ROIC on the project change when the capital structure changes or not? Our view is that excessive debt changes the ROIC of a project itself in a negative manner. And, second, bit also of the view is that the business is cyclical. I couldn't call the last the upcycle we are in. I couldn't call the last downcycle that we are in. I don't think any of us have an ability to call the cycles. And the ability to survive the downcycle, to thrive in the upcycle, is a necessity of this business. So we tend to be conservative. I think we'll be conservative. I also had a simple 2-by-2 derive chart drawn out where financial risk on one on the X-axis and operational risk on the Y-axis. And the only quadrant you really don't want to be is where both those risks are high. Unfortunately, in the real estate development business is a very high, operationally high-risk business, so we tend to avoid financial risk in the business as much as we can. I think that's, I think that's where we come from. Let's see, I think we can do 15% ROEs without much leverage and the support of financial leverage there. I think we can find ways for the same. Perfect. Thanks for the clarification. That's it from my side. Thank you, Harsh. Thank you. Any participant who wishes to ask a question may click on the Q&A tab and click Raise Hand icon. As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference back to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir. We would like to thank all of you for being on this call and being so patient, and with all the questions and answers. If we were unable to take any questions, please feel free to write to us directly or reach out to us directly. And with that, we would like to conclude the call. A lot of material we have spoken about is posted on our website, and you can also email your queries for any further clarifications. Thank you once again for taking the time out to join us on this call. Thank you. Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Ashiana Housing Limited, that concludes today's session. Thank you for your participation. You may now click on Exit the Meeting. Thank you.