Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and Welcome to Ashiana Housing Limited Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Binay Sarda from Ernst & Young. Thank you, and over to you. Thanks, Yashashri. Welcome, everyone, and Thanks for joining this Q1 FY 2024 earnings call for Ashiana Housing Limited. The results and the investor presentation have been mailed to you, and it is also available on the stock exchange. In case if you have not received the same, please write to us, and we'll be happy to send it over to you. To take us through the results for this quarter and answer your questions, we have with us today, Mr. Varun Gupta, Whole Time Director, and Mr. Vikash Dugar, CFO. We'll be starting the call with a brief overview of the company's performance for this quarter, and then we'll follow it up with a Q&A session. I would like to remind you that everything said on this call that reflects any outlook for the future which may be construed as a forward-looking statement must be viewed in conjunction with uncertainties and risks that they face. These uncertainties and risks are included, but not limited to what we have mentioned in the prospectus filed with SEBI and subsequent annual reports, which you will find on our website. With that said, I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Vikash Dugar. Over to you, sir. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope all of you and your families are keeping healthy. I welcome you to discuss the performance of the first quarter of FY 2024 for Ashiana Housing Limited. Thank you for joining us today. Area booked recorded in Q1 FY 2024 was 6.53 lakh sq ft as compared to 3.34 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY 2023. Value of area booked also went up to INR 436.2 crore in Q1 FY 2024, vis-a-vis INR 435.82 crore in quarter four of FY 2023, and INR 152.1 crore in quarter one of the last year. Ashiana Amarah's second phase was launched in April, and entire stock was sold out on launch. 224 units with a sale value of around INR 290 crore. Average realization went up to INR 6,684 per sq ft in Q1 FY 2024 as compared to INR 4,557 per sq ft in Q1 FY 2023. This was majorly driven by bookings in Ashiana Amarah, Gurugram. We handed over 3.32 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY 2024, out of which 2.35 lakh sq ft were delivered in Ashiana Daksh, Phase Two, Jaipur, which was fully handed over in Q1. This was against a delivery of 2.72 lakh sq ft in Q4 FY 2023, and 2.11 lakh sq ft in Q1 FY 2023. Total revenue increased to INR 129.3 crore in Q1 FY 2024, vis-a-vis INR 116.9 crore in Q4 FY 2023, due to higher deliveries in AHL, which was 2.94 lakh sq ft versus 2.34 lakh sq ft. PAT increased to INR 10.87 crore in Q1 FY 2024 from INR 10.38 crore in Q4 FY 2023. TCI also improved to INR 11.2 crore in Q1 FY 2024, vis-a-vis INR 10.51 crore in Q4 FY 2023. Pre-tax operating cash flow was recorded at INR 83.15 crore in Q1 FY 2024, vis-a-vis INR 22.6 crore in Q4 2023. FY 2023 was at INR 84.85 crore. This was aided by higher collections during the quarter. On this note, I would like to conclude my remarks. We'll now be happy to discuss any questions or suggestions that you may have. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Rohit from ithought PMS. Please go ahead. Hello? Yes, we can hear you. Hi, Rohit. Go ahead. Yeah. Hi, hi. Hi, everybody. Thank you for the opportunity. So just a couple of questions to begin with. So this year, you in the last quarter, you had mentioned that we are sort of aiming for INR 1,500 crore, and it seems that the first quarter was also decent from that perspective. Just wanted to get a sense, how do you see this year, I mean, the upcoming quarters, how are you thinking about that from a ramp-up point of view? Hi, Rohit. So we continue to maintain a INR 1,500 crore pre-sales guidance for the year. The first quarter was very heavy with respect to Ashiana Amarah Phase Two being launched in this quarter. We'll do one more phase launch of Amarah this year, probably in Q4 of this year or late Q3 or early Q4, I was thinking more- ... probably be in Q4 of this year. So therefore, we will have a few quarters, which might be very heavy in sales, where you have a large phase getting launched or many projects, and some quarters a little lower. But, overall, the INR 1,500 crore run rate seems to be good. We were also happy with the way July progressed throughout the year overall, so things seem to be on good track right now. Right. So that's good to hear. In terms of, so I'm seeing your presentation, you've given the delivery. So this year also is very heavy on delivery, right? So, so, I mean, from a P&L point of view, I mean, these would be based on what realization, this would be more around INR 3,000 or a bit more, and gross margins on these would be, like, higher? I'm just, I'm, I mean, I'm circling back to that question of, ROE being 15%. So at these numbers, can we hit 15% reported ROE? Or, given the realization were low, this may not be the case? So on the front of realizations for all of these projects, we provide the realizations in a separate sheet. You can go through it and compile that, and that's provided across projects. What is the value of area booked as on date? Right. -for each phase? This is on slide 11. Okay? Right. So that would help. Overall, realization for these projects would be lower than earlier, but definitely not in the INR 3,000 range overall. But we will also—I don't have the number handy, but INR 3,500-INR 4,000. So about INR 3,700 on average is what you can expect, but there is quite a bit of variation. Sure. In different price brackets across this. Gross margins on these projects would be lower than what we generally do. It will not be the 30% expected margins that we have. But that said, on the net margin performance, I think relatively things would improve significantly because our fixed costs will not go up in the proportion that revenues will go up. So to get into the teens for ROE on a reported basis this year, on a definite basis. Okay. Okay, got it. And the other question is now, I mean, in terms of given we don't have any major inventory, and even in terms of land bank, obviously, you acquired one in Gurugram again recently. But just from that perspective, so this year we will be able to do it, and we will be able to launch a few projects and we will probably get to that INR 1,500 crore. But given that the business is such that we need to plan at least a year before or at least a year before we think of launching, so how do you think for next year or what's your thought process? So this year, we have, overall five projects to launch, Mm. Out of which the first one being Ashiana Amodh in Pune, was launched in July. Then we have two projects in Chennai and two projects in Jaipur each. I think one of the good things that happened in July for us, secularly sales have moved up even in running projects. And when the, you know, second quarter data comes in, that could be useful. Whereby we can sell, we have over a crore sq ft in the future pipeline that we have, excluding Kolkata and Milakpur, which are basically a little bit of a start. So we have INR 90 lakh in future projects and about 10 lakhs sq ft in the Gurugram's new land, so it's about a crore sq ft. So we have a good pipe overall, according to me, keep to keep launching right now in phases and keep things rolling as we go along. We don't want to have a very large pipe, I think. So to drive return on equity with net margins, we also have to maintain a sales to asset or a sales to equity ratio and a return on assets and return on equity, you know, sales over equity if you don't have leverage effectively to look at the net assets. And in that perspective, I think if you build a very large pipe, our returns might get compressed. So we don't want to go crazy on pipes. We will keep having replacement stock and when we see larger opportunities to look at growth. We did around INR 20 lakh sq ft of acquisition last year, including Sector 80, Gurugram, and two projects in Jaipur, having probably a sales revenue potential of about INR 1,500 crore. We are in active discussions for two transactions as well, right now. So replacement pipeline will keep coming till we see a very strong margin support or very, you know, great opportunities in land whereby we can really ramp up our volumes and also maintain healthy margins at the cost of land that is there. Right. Right. Makes sense. And just one more thing. From a geography point of view, so if I if I look at your overall saleable area, this is on page 14. So so obviously, you've done really well in Gurugram, and that also is a future area. I just wanted your your view on Pune and Chennai, I mean, they have put together about 11%.... What are your thought process on these two geographies? Is there is there a is there a thought process to sort of ramp them up significantly in the next two-three years? Just wanted to hear your thoughts. So, yeah, there are plans to ramp up both Pune and Chennai. There are plans to ramp up senior living as a larger part of the company. And in that context, in Pune, we have just launched Ashiana Amodh in July, which will make a large difference to the Pune overall proportion of sales and things that we're looking at. We also Chennai, both Swarang and Vatsalya, which are the two senior living projects, we hope to launch in this financial year itself. Okay. And we see a very strong opportunity for senior living, both in Pune and Chennai. You know, and driving, getting to now, senior living, contributing north of 20% of sales and revenues and a little bit more of profits as we go along, because we see higher margins. And, hopefully improving to a third over the next two-three years. So there is a large push in that regard. And, Thank you. Okay. So Rohit- Yeah, sorry, sir. Can I request you also for further- Yeah, sure. I'll come back. I'll come back, I'll come back. Yeah. Meeting, and I would like to get back. Sure, sure, Gautam. Sure, Gautam. All the very best. Thank you. Thank you, Rohit. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to participants to press star and one to ask a question. We have our next question from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from o3 Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, good afternoon, and congrats on good set of numbers, and especially the year it has started. I hope the momentum continues. I have a question on buyback, okay. You chose the price of INR 301, and the company will pay a dividend tax of around 23%, which takes the effective price to the company of buying shares at INR 370, okay? And when the stock price was around INR 190. Can you explain the logic of it, and also why not market buyback? Would not that have created more value for the remaining shareholders in the company? I understand it is a small amount, but again, it, it seems, yeah- It- It may not create as much value. Hey, Himanshu, A, but it is a small amount, like you said. So, and B, I think we looked at it as more of a one-time distribution of cash flows back to shareholders, and looked at it as, as an alternative to dividends, as to how do we give cash back to shareholders, rather than looking at it as a me- an- another form of allocating capital and buying, shares at a cheaper price, and therefore it's a way to invest the capital of the company. It was, it was more... And when we looked at it, it was a tax-free, a cash flow back to shareholders. There was obviously buyback tax at the company, but overall, a more, efficient way to reward shareholders back through, the one-time distribution of cash flow. Okay. That's the lens we applied as compared to the lens that you are applying. This 301 price, was there a cash flow basis method of valuation or the third party valuation you chose, or? No, it was just a premium to ensure all the shareholders participate in the buyback completely, and everybody gets rewarded. Okay. And one thing, the IFC deal we have signed, will it be only for the incremental areas we'll purchase, or they can partner for that, large HSIIDC project also? And secondly- We can partner for the large HSIIDC project also, and other than that, other fresh projects that we have. Any change in the terms which we had with IFC earlier? No, it's on the same, it's on the same terms. And, this HSIIDC, have we paid the complete payments which were to be done, or, it is, on- Only 25% payment is made. Himanshu, the remaining payments are due after a year. So we'll expect the project launch only in 2025 end or 2026? We hope to launch the project in 2025 end. Okay. Okay, thank you so much, sir. Thank you, Himanshu. Thank you. A reminder to participants to press star and one to ask a question. We have our next question from the line of Praveen Agarwal, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. I have a couple of questions. One, on the overall trend, demand trend, which you're seeing across markets. And second is a related question, that in terms of price appreciation, the delta you are... In terms, in terms of percentage terms, what you are seeing in the end product, with essentially the apartments which you are selling versus the land rate. Essentially, is one going faster, growing faster than the other, or it's, kind of, in tandem? Essentially, what I'm trying to assess is whether going forward, you know, will our margins increase, or it will be kind of stable, or where we are? Okay. So as of now, in my view, land rates have gone faster than price appreciation in the last 18 months. Land prices have appreciated at a rate faster than any apartment prices. Okay? I'd say now, in a lot of pockets, I've started seeing land prices plateau. In some pockets, not yet, okay? And apartment prices continue to appreciate. So in some places, in these pockets, I hope that the land prices will become stable and the apartment prices will catch up in the appreciation, so margins remain relatively stable, that we are used to. That said, all the transactions that we have done, 2021 onwards, I think we were able to do generally at good terms, and our margins on those projects are better than what we have had margins historically. Okay, that's it. Just one last question. Any update on the Calcutta land, which was stuck, or the other one, which is under the court order? Both, both Milakpur and Calcutta are long-stage stuck. Yeah, we have not been able to see any light of day over there for everything. Okay. That's it from me. Thank you, Praveen. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Asif Ali from Independent Advisors. Please go ahead. Hello. Hi, Asif. Hello, thank you for the opportunity. So I am- Please use your handset mode. Okay, okay. Yeah, hello. Am I audible now? Yes. Okay, thank you for the opportunity. So I have two questions regarding the proposal to go in with, with IFC, International Finance Corporation. So the first one is, what are your identified project? Hello? We haven't identified the pipe yet for the IFC platform. It's too early right now. Once we've got the platform, now we are going to start identifying projects to put on the platform. Okay, okay. The second one is, what do you mean by the return linked to project-specific return? Can you put some light on this? Can you say that again? So what do you mean by the return linked to project-specific return for the identified project? I'm not able to understand what you are really asking, Asif. Actually, Please use your handset and speak closer to the microphone, please. Okay, okay. Am I audible now? Yeah, barely. Ask your q uestion, yeah. Barely, Asif. You're not audible clearly. Asif, try now once, please. Yeah, I'm audible now? Yeah. Go on. Okay. The second question is regarding the return linked to project-specific return. So I just wanted to understand what do you mean by this? Mean by what? He's saying the IFC. Um, mean- Related to project, specific- Okay. So they are—it's not a fixed return obligation, investments. They have a return in the project, so effectively they make the return what the project makes. A little lower because of from we get a higher rate of return on our capital that the company puts in, but effectively their overall return is tied to the return in the project itself. That was what, Asif, you were asking for? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you, Asif. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. We have a question from the line of Rohit from ithought PMS. Please go ahead. Yeah, I just had a couple of follow-ups. So, when you were talking about, I think few calls back, you were also evaluating some new geographies, be it Bangalore or Bombay or for senior living in the outskirts. So just wanted to get your sense, how things moved forward or, what's your thought process there? We are very excited by the launch that has happened for Ashiana Amodh. In Pune, for a senior living launch in a fresh market, we are satisfied with the volumes that have been received and the price that we have been able to command in that area. We are looking actively closer to Bombay. We are in one very advanced deal discussions near Panvel. But outside of that, we are still scouting and looking. Okay. Sorry, could you, could you repeat? So this is in Pune, you're saying, the one that you're scouting for? I missed that part, sorry. Yeah, we are scouting around closer to Bombay, closer to Panvel. Understood. We are in advanced negotiations and advanced discussions for one parcel already. Understood. Okay, okay. And, in your, the earnings review at Mumbai, I mean, have you seen any kind of- You're not clear. Can you use your handset, please? ... Am I, is it any better now, ma'am? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So in your Hinjawadi project in Pune, Malhar, have you seen any price appreciation and the sell-through, how has been the sell-through so far? So the sell-through rate is okay. We had launched, 262,000 sq ft. I think August of last year was probably the launch. Right. We sold 181,000 sq ft as of 30th June. Mm. -that's a decent enough sell-through rate for us. A price appreciation is not of the nature that we would have desired, but it is appreciated. So, we would have appreciated by about INR 300 a sq ft to INR 300 a sq ft. I think there is room for more, but that will take some time for us to be able to establish the kind of product that we do and how we are differentiated from the market, which will take a little bit. I think it will take time till deliveries. And, you know, over a period of time that will kick in. Okay. Okay. This INR 300 incremental is on what base, Rohit? By some- I'm not sure exactly, or I will be giving again, rounded numbers. I think we were selling at about INR 5,100, and we are at about INR 5,400 today. Understood. Yeah. Understood. So INR 5,200 we were selling at, and we are at somewhere between INR 5,400-INR 5,500 a sq ft right now on a saleable area basis. So that's- Right. That's where we are. Right. Right. Right. Understood. So, so I mean, that project, I think you face competition from a couple of other developers there. So, I mean, how... Is that, is that, is that the reason why? Are you happy with the sell-through? You said you were happy. Is that or you could have done better? So, no. So in Malhar, am I satisfied? Because it's the first project for us, and therefore- Mm. It takes time for us to establish our brand. Yes, I am, because the sell-through rate is good, you know, to keep the ball chugging along. But from the margins that we are making in Malhar, we are not satisfied at all. Okay. But for that, we'll have to establish our brand further to be able to realize better prices. I think that's still a work in progress. As compared to Ashiana Amodh in Pune, where we are satisfied with the volumes, and we are very happy with the price that we're getting. Got it. Understood. Understood. And this Amodh would be where exactly in terms of area, if you can just share? Ashiana Amodh is located on Talegaon. Okay. It serves both Bombay and Pune from a city. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Rohit. Thank you, Rohit. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Deepak Purswani from Svan Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good afternoon, sir. So just wanted to check it out, just wanted to check it out. Firstly, in terms of the pre-tax operating cash flow, this quarter, we have done INR 84 crore. I mean, from the run rate point of view, how should we take it from the next two, three-year perspective? How it should shape it up? Okay. So from this year's perspective, I think we are expecting pre-tax operating cash flows anywhere between INR 250 crore-INR 300 crore. This quarter was a little bit heavier than usual, because I think there was a little bit of coverage of last year. Last year was a little slow. I think we had sold, but the collections came in, particularly in Ashiana Amarah this year. And we also had overall a lower amount of construction in this quarter as compared to the proportionate amount of work that we'll do next year. Like, you know, this quarter, we did 435,000 sq ft as compared to 508,000 sq ft in the last quarter, and the construction pace will also pick up. Overall, the 83/ 84 is a little higher aberration, but maintaining around INR 250 crores-INR 300 crores between that range, run rate is something that we are aiming for this year, and hopefully going forward, that should improve as sales value improves. Okay. Would it be possible to share the numbers in terms of collection and construction outflow, sir? We'll have to get back to you on the same. I think collection was around INR 250- odd crore, this quarter? Yeah, yeah. It was around INR 250-odd crore. Yes, correct. Okay. So I don't have exact, construction outflow numbers, but there will be other outflows like, you know, JDA partner payouts will also be, pre this number. So there will be other outflows, not just construction outflows at that. And this year, we expect to collect anywhere between INR 1,000 crore and INR 1,100 crore and make pre-tax operating cash flow between INR 250 crore and INR 350 crore. Okay. In terms of the Gurugram market, sir, what should be our overall strategy in terms of the acquisition of the project and long-term strategic shares in terms of the overall sales profile? And Can you repeat the question for me again, please? Yeah. With regards to the Gurugram market, micro market as a whole, what should be the, what should be our overall strategy in terms of taking the market share and also in terms of overall contribution from the sales perspective, from the next three or five-year perspective? Okay, all right. So I think Gurugram, from our perspective, will contribute over a third of our sales, and profits, in general, going forward. Okay? In terms of total revenue terms, in terms of area, it'll be a little lower because it's a higher price and on a per square foot margin and an absolute profit and a per square foot sale price, it's a higher priced micro market than we usually operate in. But I would say a third of our sales should come in from Gurugram. From a perspective of market share there, we don't have any market share strategy, because what we have is we want to play in the less than, let's say, INR 3 crore bracket, preferably in the less than INR 2.5 crore bracket, and INR 1 crore and upward, price point play there. Give high quality design, high quality product, high quality service, and establish a brand that allows us to charge a premium price, as we go along. And so I think that's the exercise that we're looking to do. If we are successful in that, then from our growth perspective, I think we will be okay. We don't want to take a market share view. That's not something that necessarily we want to study and analyze, overall. Just make a very competitive product and a great brand, and do good to the customers. I think the play is large enough that we will get whatever we need as a developer in that micro market. Okay. And sir, in terms of the average realization for the project launched this quarter, what was the average realization for the Gurugram project? Gurugram Phase Two was around INR 7,700 a sq ft. INR 7,600-INR 7,700. Yeah, we again, you that amount is if you look at slide 11 of the deck that we shared, we have given the, you know, 377,000 sq ft was sold, and INR 290 crore was the value. So, you know, so, so 76.92 numbers, it's about 7,700 numbers. Okay. And, sir, in terms of the expansion plan through the IFC, is there any committed or guaranteed return? I know you mentioned about the project-related IRR with, with, with- There is no, there is no committed or guaranteed return on the, on the instruments. Okay. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir. That's it. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Manan Patel from Edelweiss Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity, and congratulations for very successful launches. The first question is, I wanted to understand your views on the growth in terms of square foot over next three-four years. Last year, we did around 2.6 million, and we have, as you mentioned, around INR 1 crore sq ft of pipeline. That could be less than four years if we consider the growth also. What are your views on the growth in sq ft? While I understand the prices are appreciating, realizations are going up, so sales are also doing pretty well. How do we think of your aspirations or growth targets in terms of square feet over the next few years? So, Manan, I think we made the mistake of last time on focusing on top line volume growth a lot in the last bull run and focusing on that. I think as a company, I think what we are going to do is we're going to focus on return on equity and keep deploying incremental capital well to generate further returns, which will create growth. You know, if your, if your capital base is increasing and your returns are stable, then your earnings are growing at that, at that pace, that's simple math. But the focus of the company is less on top line volumes, and the focus of the company is on return on equity. As stated, our view is that how, first, how we get to 15% return on equity. We do both economic and reported basis works. This year, we should definitely, on an economic basis, cross 15% threshold, and on a reported basis, I'm hoping to get into teens, this year. And, and keep growing that. And as, as and when we do that, our earnings and our top line should continue to grow. But, that's, that's, that's the kind of, sort of focus I think we want to have as a company. And we do that, we'll be fine. So we don't have a top line number that we're chasing, in the chat. Understood. But a volume number we are looking at from a three-four-year perspective. We have actually not mapped that out. Understood. That's very helpful. And secondly, I would like to understand the position, the time in the cycle we are in, based on the demand and supply or launches happening in your major markets like Gurugram. So you mentioned that the apartment prices are appreciating, but land prices appreciate faster and now they are stagnating. So, where in the cycle do you think we are in terms of further appreciation in the apartment price? Yeah, I have gotten this wrong multiple times, okay? So I-- you know, the kind of bull that has happened, bull run that has happened at this phase would have been difficult to call. I was publicly commenting, 18 months- 24 months, from about 18 months- 24 months ago, that we are in a multi-year bull run cycle because of supply compression that had happened. Fortunately, absolute inventories across major markets, except barring one or two, are not increasing yet, whereby sales continue to outpace launches. And till that happens and continues to happen, I think apartment prices will continue to appreciate. By what pace, for how long? Those are difficult things to call with exact thing. But again, right now, the sense is that it will continue on a multi-bull year run, and I am very sure launches, that launches will catch up a lot, because the capital availability for the sector still continues to be restricted. And access to capital is only with a few developers. Until that continues, I think overall supply in the market will continue to be constrained. So, but that's the data I would look at, is absolute unsold inventory that's in the markets, are they increasing or are they decreasing? Right now, they are fairly stable, I would say, or decreasing slowly. Understood. And in terms of affordability, how long do you think the appreciation can last till the affordability gets hit? Again, it's a difficult thing to call for how long. But the first sign of affordability is when unit size in apartment starts compressing. So if developers start making smaller and smaller units, whereby two-bedroom units will now start outselling three-bedroom units, the size of three-bedroom units will reduce, the size of two-bedroom units... That will be the first sign whereby affordability is getting hurt. Okay? Right now, the demand for bigger size apartments continue, and we continue to see, apartment sizes increasing. So the signs of affordability issues are not yet, there. Got it. So that's a very helpful indicator. Thanks a lot, and wish you well. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. We'll take our next question from the line of V.P. Rajesh from Banyan Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Hi, Varun and Vikash. Congrats on some good launches this quarter. Sir, please use your handset. My question... Hello? Yeah, please use your handset mode. Yeah, I'm using handset. Is it okay now? Can you be a little louder, V.P.? Just a tiny bit louder. Okay, sure. How is this? Okay, so my first question was that in your projects that you are launching, are you starting to see more investor interest? Are you tracking that, and what's the sense you're getting as to the customer that is buying those units? Yep. So, maybe two things. One, there are two kinds of investors. One are people who buy to hold and buy to let, okay, investors. Right. Mm-hmm. There is a different investor who wants to exit at possession, okay? Right. We are, we are designing the firm a little bit more to be unattractive to this investor who wants to buy at launch and sell at possession. Because, because, you know, that can hurt a little bit. So we are telling all our customers that we will not allow any trade without you getting a sale deed, registered and stamped, which increases the transaction cost of that. So hopefully, in my view, it's keeping that buy-to-flip investor at a very low proportion of our sales right now. But we are getting interest from buy-to-let investors significantly, but which has always been the case in our, of our proportion of our sales. I think proportionately, they're not changing. They make up about 50% of our apartment sales in general, and 50% would be owner-occupiers of the units which are not sold to buy-to-flip investors, which are very low right now. Got it. And then the second question about the Noida market. Just was curious what's your prognosis now, and is that of interest to you still? I'm not able to make sense of the land prices there to do senior living there. I don't see margins are commensurate to the investment. So I find it difficult to make returns in that market as of now. Right. In terms of your markets now, would you consider Pune as an established market for us, or do you think it's still to be seen? If you can just comment, like, where are you aside from- I don't think it's established yet. I don't think it's established yet. Uh- But the start has been good, and we are looking at it to do well for us. I think from a senior expectations from a senior living market of Bombay, Pune, and not just Pune. Bombay, Pune, as one sort of nation. And doing senior living there, I have we have high expectations of doing well there. And the prognosis that we had gone in with in terms of demand for senior living and the kind of gentry we can attract there, in Ashiana Amodh, that that diagnosis is coming through, and we... It seems to be going well. Got it. And just one quick question on the last years, what was your economic profit or ROI based on the economic profit? ROE rather. Economic ROE, we were in lower double digits, okay, last year, and this year we are looking at economic ROE to be in the high teens. High teens, okay. Yeah. In this year, we should cross our projection. Projection says we will cross 15 quite handsomely. First quarter is giving a sense that we are on the right track. Wonderful. Good. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to participants to press star and one to ask a question. We have a question from the line of Ajay Vora from Nuvama Asset Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, sir. Congratulations on good set of numbers. Just want to understand your thought process. So going forward, you know, you said that we have broadly, you know, 10 million sq ft kind of a pipeline, which we can build up over the next four-five years. Is there a mechanism or what is your thought in terms of, you know, having a particular or I would say, steady state EBITDA margins on each of the projects? So, you know, the realization may keep changing and the land costs and all the construction costs, but is there a mechanism where, you know, we are targeting a particular EBITDA margin on all the projects which we plan to launch going forward? So margins do vary, Ajay, project to project. We do have what we, I would call inventory gains and inventory losses, whereby, you know, the, by the time, between the time we do the deal and when we sell the project, markets can change dynamically. We look to underwrite a 30% GP, generally when we take projects. For own outright purchase projects, we look for a little slightly higher number. For JV, we can leave a little bit, and this is at the project level GP. Project level GP to us is sales, less constructions and less land, sell, less approval costs, all project-related costs excluding sales and marketing costs. And then from that we reduce the sales and marketing costs. Sales and marketing costs right now is averaging about 4% in the company, maybe 4%, 4.25%, but ranging between 3%-6%, depending on where it is. And the other overheads are a little bit of a fixed item, right, which gets spread, and there is a degree of operating leverage there, depending on, you know, how much we are able to sell it. No, but if I, if I look at your, you know, historical trend, it has been extremely volatile at the company level. So I understand, you know, it changes at the project level. But at a consolidated, I'm not even asking for a quarterly thing, but at an annual level, what sort of number, post all the expenses and all, are we targeting any particular number, say 15%, 20%, 25%? Okay. So let me put it this way, that the EBITDA margin at the company level has been depressed significantly because of this fixed cost that we are talking about, overhead, which is leading to a high degree of operating leverage. So as and when revenues go up, our fixed costs will not go up significantly, so margins should definitely improve at the company level. I think from a PAT perspective, I don't know so much of EBITDA, and we don't do the exact math, but from a PAT perspective, I think the getting, crossing 10% initially and going up to 13%-14% is where we would like to get to on the total comprehensive income margin. So TCI margins right now, you know, annually have varied between, you know, we have had losses and has gone up to 10.6% over the last five, six years. I think getting to, that, 10% threshold, and then going up to hopefully 14%, 15%, in peak years as a PAT margin is what would be ideal, and hopefully averaging around 12%. ... Cool, that was helpful. And, you know, considering the free cash flow which we will generate, broadly, you know, that will be utilized, for land acquisition and, JVs, right, going forward? Or is there any other, thought behind that? No, there isn't. So I, we might sit on the cash also for a little bit if we don't see a lot of good deals coming in. So I think we will not... as I said earlier, we made the mistake of chasing top line growth, and therefore we lost sight of whether the, you know, a little bit, whether the terms of the deal were making as much sense as it should be, were we reasonably conservative enough earlier. So we might sit on the capital also, but, ideally would be to deploy into land and JV to grow the business. That's the ideal piece. Okay, great. Thanks and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one on your phone now. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Over to you. We would like to thank all of you for being on this call and being so patient with all the questions and answers. If we were unable to take any questions, please feel free to write to us directly or reach out to us directly. With that, we would like to conclude the call. A lot of material we have spoken about is posted on our website, and you can also email your queries for any further clarification. Thank you once again for taking the time to join us on this call. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Ashiana Housing Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.