Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Emami Limited Q2 FY 2025 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IIFL Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, you may signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Percy Panthaki from IIFL Securities. Thank you and over to you, sir. Hi. Good evening everyone. We are pleased to host the quarterly con call for Emami Limited. On the call with me I have Mr. Mohan Goenka, Whole-time Director and Vice Chairman, Mr. Vivek Dhir, CEO International Business. Mr. Gul Raj Bhatia, President Healthcare. Mr. Manish Gupta, President, Sales and Mr. Rajesh Sharma, President, Finance and IR. I now like to hand over the call to the management for their initial comments and then we will open up. For Q&A. Thank you. Thank you, Percy. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for our earnings call for the second quarter and half year ended 30th September 2024. At the macro level, the quarter presented some challenges with demand trends similar to the first quarter. High food inflation has continued to impact mass consumers. On the international front, political unrest in key markets like Bangladesh posed some temporary hurdles. Despite these headwinds, I am pleased to report that we delivered profit-led growth this quarter, underscoring our resilience and strategic agility. Our consolidated revenues at INR 891 crore in quarter two grew by 3% while the first half of FY 2025 saw a 6% growth with revenues at INR 1,797 crore. Our domestic business also grew by 3% in Q2 led by double-digit gains in some of our key brands. Navratna and Dermicool grew by 10% while the healthcare range grew by 11%. Pain management range grew by 5% and BoroPlus delivered a growth of 2%. Kesh King and male grooming declined by 9% and 13% respectively. As you are aware, we acquired the balance stake in our strategic subsidiary Helios Lifestyle from the erstwhile promoters. Due to the transition and change of management at Helios, we experienced a one-off decline in revenues in the same quarter two. We are confident that the business is poised for a strong growth in our pace of innovation continues with launch of two new products under Dermicool under the brand HE and three new launches on Zanducare Portal. Further, we relaunched our light moisturizing cream under the name of BoroPlus Soft in a fresh new look. Light moisturizing cream segment is highest growth segment in skin care currently and we believe with the strong association of BoroPlus mother brand. Did you connect my line? Hello. Sorry for the interruption, sir. Yeah, and we believe with the strong association of BoroPlus mother brand with moisturization, care and trust, BoroPlus Soft has all the potential to become a very significant player not only in the segment but also a significant value driver for the BoroPlus portfolio. Our channel continued to evolve as sales contribution from organized channels i.e. modern trade and e-com and institutional sales at 26.6% of domestic business increased by 190 basis points in the first half of the financial year, growing by 14%. Our international business showed resilience in the face of geopolitical challenges with sales growth of 12% excluding Bangladesh. Overall, our international business grew by 6% both in constant currency terms and in INR terms, led by a strong performance in the MENA region. In the first half, international business grew by 9% in the constant currency and by 8% in INR terms. The situation in Bangladesh has improved from the lows of July and August. However, challenges like rising inflation, depleting forest reserves, Forex reserves along with political instability continue to impact the business. We are confident of maintaining our market share even in troubled times. In the second quarter, our gross margin expanded by 60 basis points to 70.7% while EBITDA grew by 7% to INR 250 crores with margins expanding by 110 basis points. Profit before tax rose by 13% to INR 220 crores accompanied by a 220 basis points margin expansion and profit after tax rose by 19% to INR 213 crores. For the first half of the financial year, gross margins expanded by 140 basis points to 69.2%. EBITDA at INR 467 crores reported a 10% growth while PBT surged by 15% to INR 399 crores and PAT also rose by 16% to INR 365 crores. These results highlight our ability to deliver solid financial performance even amid challenging conditions and set the stage for a promising second half. Consequently, our board has declared an interim dividend of 400% amounting to INR 4 per share for FY 2024. As we look ahead, we are optimistic about a strong recovery in the coming months with the relaunch of Fair and Handsome set for in Q3 and our focused interventions for Kesh King. We are confident that these brands will bounce back and start contributing to the growth in H2, and with a good winter season forecast, we remain committed to our goals of high single digit revenue growth and double-digit EBITDA growth for FY 2025 and we are progressing steadily towards achieving these targets. We remain focused on driving sustainable volume led growth by expanding our distribution reach, investing aggressively in our key brands and capturing market share across our portfolios. With this, I open the floor for Q&A. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wish to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have first question from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec. Please go ahead, sir. Hi, good evening. Just on, you know, the two brands that have struggled a little bit. You know male grooming and Kesh King both have seen kind of, you know, five quarters of decline in terms of brand growth. Could you just highlight, Mohan, about you. Now, how you are looking, you know what, what are the kind of key. Steps in this new phase of relaunch. In Fair and Handsome, any light you can give on that? And secondly on initiatives in Kesh King that you are taking to make changes in this brand. Thank you. Harit, you are right that these two brands have been struggling for some time, Kesh King, particularly the oil and male grooming for some time. I think I had mentioned in the last quarter con call that for Kesh King and BoroPlus we have engaged BCG, you know, for the growth of these two categories. They started the work in August. Of course, they will come with some solutions in the next six to eight months. Hopefully after that once we implement their strategies, we will see a significant growth in the Kesh King category as far as the male grooming is concerned. We have relaunched the Fair and Handsome just about in this month. There is a substantial change in our relaunch with a new brand ambassador, young brand ambassador. Hopefully with all these changes, even male grooming will show signs of growth. We are very confident of these two brands going forward n ow. Just to follow- up on each o f them. Apart from, you know, changing communication and brand ambassador, is there anything else, you know, is there a packaging formulation, any, any other change that has b een made on Fair and Handsome pricing etc. So yes, there is a packaging overhauling what we have done here. And yeah, we are changing. We are wanting to go into a larger male grooming space from Fair and Handsome. So we are working towards that and you will see a significant new launches coming up in the fourth quarter or in the first half of next year. Understood. And just to follow up on Kesh King, it seems like category growth is the. Challenge because you are, you know, driving significant, you're continuing to see market share improvement. So you know, how does one address? The category growth challenge? Does one, you know, have to push, you know, move Kesh King out? I mean, you know, extend the brand? Is that, is that the best way to drive? Because you know, category growth is, it's hard to mend the problem of category growth. Just wanted your insights, initial insights o n how you are thinking about what the real challenges? Because category growth seems to be the p roblem on the oil side. Yeah. So Kesh King is an anti-hair fall. Okay. Category. It's an expensive oil as you know, so due to and it sells in the mass consumers. Okay. So because of inflation of course there has been challenge as far as this oil is concerned. Shampoo is still doing better than the oil. Now the only way to grow is. Hair fall is a big problem and. We don't see any reason that this category will not grow in future. Of course we have faced some challenges from some startups, you know, so people are trying new products into the category. But whatever said and done, as I said, BCG is actively looking at this Kesh King strategy and we have planned a significant growth in shampoo for the time being. Once we are ready with the Kesh King oil strategy, we will roll it out and yes, I agree that it will, we will be launching some extensions to Kesh King oil. Right. Thank you so much Mohan. I'll come back for more. Thank you. Thank you very much. Before we proceed with next question we would like to remind participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. We have a question from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Spark PWM. Please go ahead, sir. Two questions from my end. Can you give us some sense on what is happening in rural and urban markets and you know, going forward, what are your thoughts in terms of growth drivers for us? And secondly, you know, if we look at, you know, the journey of Emami route in general has been, you know, distribution, direct and indirect expansion, penetrating rural. Then you know, modern trade came in, then e-commerce came in and now you know, quick commerce has come in so how are we gearing for this change and evolution in terms of distribution changes happening in the industry and where are we in terms of capability, in terms of makes? What is happening in modern trade and e-commerce? And some thoughts on general trade and quick commerce. Okay, Prakash, we have Manish, who is the President of Sales on the call. Can you give the answer? Great question. So first of all, as Mohan said in his opening address, modern trade and ECOM are now contributing a large good chunk, and they're the fastest growing channels like it's going for most of the other companies and rightly so. We might have been a little late to the party, but currently we are trending in line with the contribution channels and MG and ECOM within E COM, Quick Com of course is the fastest growing channel. Just to give you an idea, in Quick Com over the last six months we have kind of 2x our number and we're thinking that over the next quarters which has come in, this is going to grow faster. So. We are investing both in terms of resourcing and attention and investments to double down on that group. Now having said that, as you said, the traditional strength of Emami has always been the GT side as well. I'm happy to share that on the GT front we have done a lot of great stuff over the last many years where rural continues to be a stronghold and we have tightened our resources there. We have also started looking at premiumizing our general trade channel via initiatives into the supermarkets, the marts and the standalone stores because they are becoming a big force and a shopping avenue for the urban consumers. We are tackling each one of them. Our prime focus right now is to stay strong in rural, minimize urban GT, stay strong in modern trade, double down on the e-commerce. Right. Because consumers have become multi-channel, the shopping behaviors are changing very rapidly. In tune with that, we are investing in each of the channels to g eneral trade. Okay and modern trade. You know, e-commerce would be what, 15%-18% for us as of 25%, 25%+. Okay. Okay. More on rural and urban, some thoughts. So as Manish said, Prakash, that rural has been slightly better than the urban market. Okay. But there is not much of a difference of course in the third quarter which is mostly led by BoroPlus Antiseptic Cream and majority of it comes from the rural markets. So we will have to see how the third quarter pans out to be. We have a very, very robust distribution in the rural markets. You know, so if the winters are strong. We will see a significant growth in the third quarter. At least f orecast seems to be of a very strong winter is what we've been reading. Forecast this year is strong winter. Yeah. We are seeing, we are seeing some signs of winter in the north now. That's what we are. Our market is saying that my stocks are now moving from the market. Okay. So the channel pipeline is started. Yeah, yeah. Now it is getting. And you know you alluded to Kesh King, you know, and you gave some insights into BCG. But you know some of this was tried earlier also because you know we changed the packaging, we tried the smaller packs. We, you know, tried and expanded the market. We went to rural. But. But you know, somehow that volatility or y ou know, growth seems to be missing despite some of these initiatives which were taken earlier also. So what is surprising is, you know, despite it being a problem solution area, it's facing such challenges despite, you know, not being such a large category. So what are we missing or what is the consumer thinking? Prakash, I see. Honestly, you are right. We have been trying on this category and we have a strong belief in Kesh King because it is anti-hair fall. And see, our job is to keep on trying till the time we succeed. It's a big, big category. We have. We see a huge future in shampoo and also in oil. And BCGs, as I said, you know, hopefully they should come up with some great solutions. We are ready to invest any amount of money behind Kesh King very honestly. Okay. Some of these initiatives should start reflecting from Q4 onwards or next year. We should see. No. So hopefully from Q4 onwards because actively the research is undergoing. So once they give some idea we will roll it out quickly. Understood. Like I said we will be disproportionate spends on Kesh King, you know, because we really see a big potential of Kesh King. Understood. I'll join back if I have more questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. We have next question from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please proceed with your question. Hi team, Happy Diwali. Just a few questions and observations. We can't hear you very clearly. Yeah. Just a few observations so far. Most of the companies is highlighted to protect the channel hygiene. Companies have taken some inventory cut and taken a pause on the primary and focused on secondary. Second, we also understand few companies have highlighted there is an urban slowdown in consumption. So in your lens, in your product profile, what is your observation i f you can give some depth? Manish, will you take this question? For a s channel inventory is concerned. We have issues in certain areas, but it's not as large an issue. Some of our competition had to get into a stage. We are a pretty decently well managed system and to take care of our p rofitability of our partners. Whether it's a credit support or other things to ensure that the pipelines are right. You must understand that we are a seasonal business into three categories. So we do undergo shifts of inventories and all that. But largely, we have confirmed that we have not had to go to the extent of cutting down big time or something. Course corrections here and there. We keep taking month on month, quarter on quarter wherever required. As far as the urban and rural mix is concerned, as we said earlier, for us the story is quite uniform. We are by far the number one brand in most of the big categories that we operate in. So we pretty much drive the growth. I hope it answers your question. Yeah, Manish, I understand what you're saying, but pain management has grown only 5%. Even BoroPlus has also grown only 2%. That's why we have taken some new product launches. So, alone, the season has not panned a s the way it was expected for pain management especially for balm and even oil I was expecting the loading would have started happening. So is the inventory an issue or is there something else? No, no, no. Basics are very simple. We are looking at quarter two number which is July, August, September over the years the loading for the General Trade most brands would like to do it from October, November onwards and not September onwards. As Mohan mentioned earlier we are taking a conscious call that we load in line with the season of demand rather than the quarterly stockist plan for the distributors and the capital for October onwards that story will start. There might be some bit here and there but that's fine. We're very confident on the BoroPlus side as far as the pain management is concerned. The quarter two perspective that quarter three is our biggest season and as we get into winters and onwards and category is going well both in urban and rural. Country is doing very well there. You don't see any major reason for an alarm there. I mean even if you look from a share perspective we are either maintaining or growing our shares. Okay. In fact, the good point I would like to share is we are now seeing an increased participation from modern trade Quick Commerce towards the OTC category especially because they see some of them especially in Quick Commerce scenario they lend themselves to a better category fit when it comes to impulsion emergency solutions. We are conscious of that opportunity and we want to capitalize on that. Sorry to harp on this point because over last four five quarters we have spent significant amount of money on Project Khoj. So I mean Project Khoj is primarily was to our understanding was improving throughput. And if the category has been seeing this kind of input, the sales is not in tandem. So that's why I was a bit worried and asked previous question. No, I understand that Project Khoj was about creating our hub and spokes into the rural market. Over the last three, four years that work has been done. We have expanded our villages, we expanded our hub and spokes and now Project Khoj has officially internally been called off because it has done its job. Now we're in the process of gaining the fruits from that through our GTN network through our. Right, but to say that we are not using the thing, I'm not sure if that's the right way to do it. Market shares are growing on the category. I mean that's a good proof of that we are getting. Okay, okay. My second question... Just to add on Manish's point. See any investments that you do, you know, you don't know how the markets would behave. You all know that rural markets or weather, urban, rural, there is some level of stress, you know, as far as the consumer demand is concerned. So these are investments for a very, very long term investment that we do in rural markets or growth or expanding outlets in the rural markets. Once the market bounces back, we would be preferably the companies who will benefit the most. I understand. I'm completely with you Mohan because you guys are spending more than the industry average. Because the question is that it's not sufficiently getting us to the revenue momentum. That's the big challenge. But I don't subscribe to what you're saying Shirish, because honestly if you see the challenge that is on few brands, some of the other brands are still doing much, much better and growing faster than the category. Okay, so some, some brands are you know, dragging the number down. Otherwise we would have done much, much, much better in the skincare and men's grooming. And also we did not load BoroPlus in the second quarter. So that is, these are the key reasons. International also was double-digit growth. If you would see in the last five, six quarters because of Bangladesh we could not grow otherwise our growth could have been easily 6%-7%. Okay. Also The Man Company, you know, because of the transition you have seen the growth in The Man Company and Man Company has not grown, in fact, it declined in the second quarter. So these are certain, you know, transitional things that we will have to take into account. I think the brands are very, very robust in these tough times. Let me be very clear. Okay, my second question to Gul Raj. What is this 11% growth? Is that channel-specific if you can give color because Manish just said that the modern trade and e-commerce is showing a lot of momentum. So maybe if company's average contribution is 26% is the modern trade really driving the growth or GT has also been faring and some color on the Zandu online. What are the numbers? Yeah, so thanks Mr. Shirish and I'll answer both the points that you raised on channel and the online contribution. So from a channel perspective, the growth has been driven predominantly by the GT business in terms of having performed well on the OTC side and on the medical or ayurvedic medical business. The pharma ayurvedic business online has also done well, especially e-c om but since the contribution is relatively smaller yet for e-c om modern trade, obviously they've done better than the GT growth. I mean for the last few years and hopefully over the coming years also both e-c om and modern trade will perform better than the GT business. But the GT business also done reasonably well in terms of driving this 11% growth. Coming to the online part, the online business, we've done well both on Zanducare and we now have a fairly robust product portfolio which is doing well both on Zanducare. And we also, as you know, extended it into modern trade. We always been selling it on Amazon and other ecommerce marketplaces and they're also doing pretty well. So from an online perspective we are focusing on three channels. Our own portal, Zanducare, the various e-c om marketplaces and modern trade and all are doing reasonably well. Okay, okay, that's really helpful. Mohan, my last question, you said that. You are quite optimistic. So give us some two, three parameters on which you are confident that things will change in quarter three, quarter four? So Shirish, as I said, see, one is Bangladesh. As far as international is concerned, I think it was due to the Bangladesh market that will grow in the third quarter. Again The Man Company which was doing exceedingly well because of the transition, it degrow in this quarter. But I am hopeful that in the third quarter it will again start growing. That is the second. Male grooming is a complete relaunch we have done in the month of November. So hopefully maybe if in this quarter or in the next quarter you will see a significant growth coming in from male grooming segment. It may take some time before we get the results from BCG and we are predicting a good winter this time. So if the winters are good, then hopefully that should give us at least 1 or 2% additional growth. That said, so we expect at least, you know, at least 7%-8% growth in this, in this quarter. No, I mean in the presentation I saw that there is a relaunch of HE and now we are getting into even the perfume and cologne. So is there any strategy for this segment to look at or is this just going to complement our male grooming portion also? So HE was always a male grooming. You know, we have only HE and these are only to target, you know, some upmarket consumers. If you have seen the packaging of HE, it targets to a very, very urban consumer. We are trying only ECOM right now. If we see some momentum, then we will go into the modern trade. Do you have any particular target for t he new product contribution for the FY 2025? We have a target which is about 1% of our sales. So that is what is the target. But it all depends. Some products get delayed in launches, then the targets come down. Okay, thank you and all the best. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sir, we have next question from the line of Naveen Trivedi from Motilal Oswal. Please proceed with your question, sir. Good afternoon everyone. So my question is again on the BoroPlus range. So last year we had seen a weak revenue growth year. And on top of that, if I look at the first half number also we had done around 3% growth. Although you did talk about the second half, sort of a pickup should be there where these numbers are also favorable. But looking at the annual numbers, do you think this c an do around high s ingle- digits to low double-digit range if the winter performs well for this year? Oh, definitely. Naveen. I. I expect if the winters are good, we must see at least a double digit growth. Why single digit growth? Even if the winters are not so good, we will definitely expect about 7%-8% growth in the BoroPlus range. You have seen the summer. You know what the. The summer was strong this time. We grew disproportionately in our summer brands. Right. So if the prediction goes right, we. We expect better numbers for sure. So this double digit, you. You are saying for the second half or you are saying for the year, sir? Full year, Naveen. For the second half b asically. Sure. And if you can also give us some sense about because we have done a lot of brand expansion under BoroPlus Soaps and face wash and all. So if you combine all extensions, what i s the mix of the initiatives which w e have driven, how much they contribute to the brand? BoroPlus Antiseptic Cream, then we have BoroPlus Winter Lotion, then we have BoroPlus Soap and then aloe vera gel prickly powder. These are some of the categories, you know, under BoroPlus and now recently again relaunched BoroPlus Soft. These are some of the categories. So about 75, 76% is Antiseptic Cream balanced. 25% is the rest of the categories. Just one thing on the Helios you mentioned about the quarter two had some 9% decline because of the ownership change. Do you think we will be able to recoup in the second half or you think that now the second half will be as normal as the FP will be in the first quarter? Sorry, which category you asked? 9%. Helios. The transition is still on, so hopefully it would be completed by mid of November and then we expect the growth coming in. Hopefully this quarter should grow not so handsomely, but yeah, we will see some growth in. But the fourth quarter should be better than the second and the third quarter. Sure. Thank you so much. That's all for my time. Thank you. Thank you. We have next question from the line of Vishal Gutka from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah. Hi team. I just want two questions. First around Kesh King and so how do y ou see competitive intensity in the wake of Sesa being acquired by Dabur given that it has much in terms of competition and on the other hand you have brands like Adivasi Oil which are selling at a very aggressive discount given that t hey're getting shelf space now. So just wanted your view on that. And, secondly, on pain management, growth of 5%. Although my thought process was that monsoon season, or the second quarter, is a very important quarter for the pain management portfolio. So just wanted to hear your thoughts. That's why growth has been subdued. Always highlighted that some winters also play the important role in driving the performance of pain management. Thank you. We will have to wait and watch, Vishal, how the competition does what they do. As far as we are concerned, we never take anyone lightly, and we are framing the strategy for Kesh King. I mentioned so. I also mentioned that we will spend disproportionately on Kesh King because we are very, very bullish. Adivasi Oil doesn't, you know, conflict with our consumer base. Adivasi Oil. Absolutely. Goes in the new consumer. That will grow the market further, I believe. Pain Management, yes, 5% growth we had in the second quarter, but the third quarter we have started handsomely, at least in the month of October. As Manish said, the categories are also growing. We are also seeing some growth coming in from quick commerce and e-com under pain management. Hopefully we'll see better numbers in the third quarter. Great. The last question from my side on urban demand because most of the companies are facing stress in urban demand. What is your assessment? How are you seeing urban demand going forward with regards to the portfolio that you have? So Vishal, now we are slightly. We are getting a new mix. You would see that 26% of our business now comes from Emami and ECOM that is primarily urban. And some of the new categories that we are coming in are also urban driven. Whether it is The Man Company or Brillare. Some of these brands are mostly urban brands. So we will have a good mix of urban and rural going forward. We are still very, very bullish on the premiumization. We will keep on launching some of the brands or products under our existing brands. So yeah. Great, great. Thank you and wishing you all the b est for future quarters. Thank you. Thank you very much. Participants, I would like to remind you that if you wish to ask a question, you may press star then one. We have a question from Percy Panthaki from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead, sir. Hi sir, just one question on the sub segments of hair oil. So this hair fall defense category, from whatever data you have from syndicate sources or consultants or whatever, do you find that this hair fall defense category is growing slower than the overall hair oil category or that is not the case? See, that's not the case. As I said, hair fall is a big, big issue, you know, both in urban, rural, male, female, everywhere. Okay. And what we have seen is that some of the startups, you know, there are multiple startups who have launched these hair fall oils which is mostly sell through ECOM. So that has, I think, you know, slightly dented the sales of Kesh King. So I am not seeing that the category shrinking or the category will go down because this, the problem is not getting solved. Therefore in fact it is increasing with stress levels going up. So do you think that there is a case to have different variants within Kesh King with different ingredients l ike instead of til oil you can launch a variant with bhringraj or something like that which would help sort of address different kinds of customers with different needs? Absolutely. So. As I said, BCG is on it. Let us give at least one or two quarters to them, let them come up with the right strategy and then you would see a different case hopefully. Right, right. Understood. Also wanted to understand, see modern trade, quick commerce or e-commerce etc as you said is like close to 25% of your sales now. Which means as a percentage of urban it is probably close to half of your sales. And obviously this number is only going to increase as we go ahead because these channels are sort of gaining favor among customers. So do you think that from a slightly medium-term perspective, like a five-to-ten-year perspective, if these channels are becoming very heavy, we need to also think of our portfolio from that lens as to what kind of products and what kind of categories would be more amenable to selling in those channels. I know we have now Man Company and some of the other products like that, but do you think we need to do more on that as well? See, I don't have an answer very honestly. 5 to 10 years is a long period. But yeah, we definitely believe as you said ECOM MT Quick Com are the new future distribution channels. Whatever needs to be done, we will do to be successful in this channel. If you would remember about five, six, seven or eight years back, no one believes that Emami can do 26% from E COM and modern trade because people believe we don't have the products for modern trade and E Com but that's not true. So whether it is Navratna or BoroPlus or Zandu Balm or any of these brands, they very well sell in modern trade and E COM. Got it. How will we get 26% contribution from MT & E? Got it. Just one last question is you mentioned some time ago that 75% of BoroPlus is antiseptic oil and 25% is the o ther variant... Antiseptic cream. Sorry, Antiseptic Cream and other variants. 25%. Would you be able to give some idea as to what this ratio was, let's say, five years ago, and how do you think it can evolve five years from now? So, exact numbers I will not be having, Percy, but I think five years back it would be almost 90%-92% would be Antiseptic Cream. 7%-8% would be other brands in the last few years. BoroPlus lotion, BoroPlus Aloe Vera gel and BoroPlus Soap. These have gained significantly. Do you think this trend can continue like this? 25% can become sort of meaningfully larger over the next five years or so. Oh yes, definitely. So. We also believe there is a strong growth for potential in BoroPlus and that's why we have given two brands to BCG. One is Kesh King and one is BoroPlus. Okay, that's right. Mohan. We can go back to the question queue. Thank you very much. We have next question before we proceed further. Before we proceed with the next question I would like to remind participants you may press star and one for questions. We have a question from Nitin from Emkay Global Financial Services. Please go ahead sir. Yeah, thanks a lot for the opportunity. First question is with respect to digital b rand revenue decline of 9% so when y ou are talking about transition and change in management. What exactly is it all about? Is there any change in supply chain which is leading to this decline or is there the top management change that is driving the decline? It is the top management because the promoters are now out and they have handed it over to us. So we are now managing The Man Company and Brillare. So it is just the transition because we will have to take over, we will have to hire people, we will have to do all this. So it is taking one or two months. That's just the top people. So in terms of hiring more people, managers who are managing this business, all of them are now out of this. Okay, so can we assume that like it was not planned well or it w as bound to happen. Any transition. Nitin takes a while. Of course we plan before we do any transition. Okay. But it is very very difficult to you know, know exactly what is going to happen. So this was a big transition because startups works very differently and as I said there were multiple promoters who were driving the The Man Company. So now as it has come and hopefully we see some growth from third quarter. Very recently for these startups we have hired a CEO Mr. Vikas Mittal. So hopefully he has just joined and now he's going to take over and grow this brands. He's a highly experienced guy so of course he has targets to grow these Brillare and Man Company. So he also needs to settle down. He has just joined about 10 days back. Okay, thanks a lot. Second question is with respect to this spending so there's a flat of around 5% on YoY basis. So can you construe this again? Sorry, come again, it is not clear. No, I am talking from the perspective of spending on advertisement and promotion. So there is a decline of 5% on YoY basis. So this is more related to like the relaunches and the launches we are planning in Q3. That's why there's the cut in Q2 or how should we read it? So. So Nitin, if you see H1, you know, if you see the H1 the growth has been almost 7.6, 7.6% you know, in the H1 because of some of the relaunches and we have cut in the Q2 but we will make it up in the Q3 or Q4. Okay. But we are definitely not cutting down our advertising budget. Okay. Margins. From day one I've been telling that our margins are expanding and we want to invest behind our business. So we would do that. Okay, thank you. So that means that in second half we will have a higher interest rate e xpanding. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Will that have any of that? Our margins will still expand. Okay. The second half. So you are expecting EBITDA margin to expand. Yeah. So, first half also it has expanded. Second half last year. Yeah. And lastly on other income like there is a jump. So, anyone sitting here? Yeah, Nitin, the other income has primarily gone up because of on account of higher interest income, higher mutual fund gains on liquid investments. And also we are having higher surplus funds this year compared to last year. So it is mostly in normal course of business. Okay, thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you very much. We have a question from the line of Ankit Shah from RK Advisory. Please go ahead. Hi, team, thanks for the opportunity. So sir, my first question is on. Since it's visible that the ad spends on the 7 Oils in One. So are we planning to grow the brand size going ahead? If yes, then the target, if it's possible. Ankit, 7 Oils in One is definitely a focus brand. The brand size is around INR 45 crores in the domestic business. We have been focusing on this brand for the last few years and it still remains under the focus. So. There is not much change in the strategy of 7 Oils in One. It will continue the way it is. Okay, so got it. So my other questions will be on i f you could share the impact of t he new product launches and the marketing campaign that we did in the H1 FY 2025. Can you just shed some light on that? So in our consumer lifestyle we have recently launched some new brands which has happened in this quarter. We will have to wait and watch, you know, the results in the subsequent quarters. So I have been maintaining this that we will be aggressive in our new launches going forward also. And the total new launch contribution we expect is around 11%. Okay, got it. That's all from mine. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have next question. Question from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Rajesh has just a quick question. We have taken some MAT credit. Just wanted to understand the tax rate for and how much MAT credit is available for the second half. So for H1 the tax rate, average tax rate is around 9%. So for the full year also it would be in the range of 9%-10%. Okay. That will remain at 9%-10%. Yeah. Okay. The second question is that with TMC coming under our belt do you think we will do the in house manufacturing or we will continue the manufacturing supplies from the outside? We will continue the way it is. We are not changing anything right now. It will come from the existing generation. Okay. No, I was just saying because now you have control on the company. So if the profitability is going to be taken at some point of time in future what will be the course of action? No. So right now we don't have any plans to move the factories to move the operations. It will gradually happen if it happens. Okay. And just one more question on the team we now have. So you said that now you're basically trying to reorganize and get it merged. So initially we have seen some feedback from the channel and things. But if we build, say, number four t he next two to three years, what k ind of potential this brand can become. I mean both these digital division as per your estimate you are saying about 200-odd crore. So how much the growth especially for TMC can happen and what are the growth drivers or what are the channel expertise w e will try and establish? The Man Company is about INR 180 crores at least in the next three to four years. We expect the sales to go to about 300-350 crores. That's what is the target given to Vikas. And of course it sells mostly through E-com and we will roll it out in some other channels going forward. We're also seeing substantial reduction in costs and that would be deployed in advertising. So how we operate other Emami brands similarly we will also operate The Man Company. Of course, the contribution will be far more from digital or e-com and MT. Okay. Okay. And any. Any word on the Axiom, what is happening there? I mean, last time we had the update about to before the plant is going to get rescheduled, and is the production and the product started going into the market? Yeah, so yes, the production is on from Jammu. Of course. This is an off-season for juices now. The next year we will be supplying from them only. Okay. Thank you, Mohan. All the best. Thank you. Thank you very much. As there are no further questions from participants, I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. So thank you everyone for joining us today for our Q2 earnings call. Thank you IIFL thank you for arranging this call for us. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Securities. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.