Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Mahindra Lifespace Developers Limited Q1 FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. We have with us on the call today Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO, Mr. Vimal Agarwal, CFO, and Mr. Rabindra Basu, Head of Investor Relations. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kumar Sinha, MD and CEO. Thank you and over to you, sir. Thank you, Seema. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our first quarter FY2024 earnings call for Mahindra Lifespace. Firstly, I would like to thank everyone for participating in the conference call. And as Seema mentioned, I'll keep it short, and then hand over to Vimal, and then we'll open up for questions. So let me start with three key messages from my side. Let me just try to cover first message about how we see the market. The second message is about our summary of our quarter one performance. And third one is about our aspiration for future. So let me cover them sequentially. So number one, on the macro, how we see the industry, we see significant buoyancy in the industry despite high interest rates. Despite pockets of slowdown that we see in some of the spaces, states and some of the industries, we see a significant buoyancy in the real estate industry, which is healthy for all of us. Residential demand continues to be high. We are seeing a high level of absorption across markets, especially those markets that we are participating, core markets for us. There is a large number of new launches that are already launched or in the pipeline. We also see the prices holding steady. In right places, in the right micro markets, we see the inflation and the price going well in the same direction. So overall, a healthy market. As you very well know, residential markets and real estate market tend to be cyclical. We are two years into this cycle where we see the buoyancy to continue, and hopefully this cycle will be longer than some of the other cycles that we have seen in the past. The last message on the macro from my side is we continue to find a lot of customers who are attracted and appreciated of the Grade A developers. There is a flight to quality that we see, and we hope that the organized Grade A developers will continue to capture share away from unorganized, less organized players in each of these markets. All in all, it gives me a healthy feel to the market and how we are positioned in this sector. Message two is about how we have done in the quarter one. As you have seen in the announcement yesterday, we had a quarterly sales of INR 345 crores. This does not include the Kandivali launch, which was planned in quarter one but will happen in the subsequent quarters, to account for some of the changes in the regulation related to mandatory RG area. It also does not include a very successful Lakefront Estates, our first plotted launch that we did in Chennai. Most of that is captured in quarter two. Overall, INR 345 crore captures the sustained sales of the projects that we have launched in the past few years. Part two of a business update is the number of launches that we had planned. In the last earnings call, I had mentioned to you that 9 launches are planned for this financial year. One launch has happened towards the end of quarter one, and we are seeing great success in the plotted launch, as I mentioned. 282 plots were launched, 200 sold out in less than four weeks. So our first but great success that we had so far. The other eight launches and I'm as I mentioned, I'm quite sure of the nine. Eight will definitely happen. Ninth one, we'll be pushing hard. But Kandivali is a key part of our Kandivali phase one is a key part of our launch, which is a large-sized launch, a project that we are all very excited to be launching later in the year. But overall, we feel very good about where we are today, that we'll be able to launch all these project launches that we have planned in the current financial year. The third part of business update is to talk about the GDV and land acquisition. As we have put a lot of focus on business development and land acquisition, it currently stands on roughly INR 5,500 crore. There's always additions and subtractions happening based on the negotiations, diligence, and the realization of some of those land parcels into potential launches. We continue to have a very staged very disciplined stage-gate process to pursue those land parcels that create value for us and that we'll be able to bring to market in the shortest time frame. The IC business last part is, as you know, it had a great year last year. We had INR 456 crore of leasing in last financial year. It's a lumpy business given China Plus One theme, given domestic consumption story, given the GDV expectation that RBI and World Bank have put forward. We feel that we'll have more and more interest in our IC business. It's a plug-and-play infrastructure, suits many of the companies. The pipeline is very healthy. We have closed 3 acres in the first quarter in MWC Chennai. But the pipeline is very strong, very long, and we hope we will be able to convert most of these in the current financial year across all of our IC & IC portfolio. The third part. That was a quick business update. In the last earnings call, I talked about, and some of you had asked me about what is our aspiration, what is our strategy for the next 5-7 years. And I just want to cover that very quickly. In fact, we have included some details in the IR presentation that we released yesterday. Our, you know, we've had a strong last two years of performance driven by our residential segments, healthy growth across all the core markets. As I said earlier, this has given us strong confidence that we can do better and can pursue larger opportunities. Our aspiration now is to be five times bigger than where we are today, INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore of pre-sales in the next five years, obviously focusing on customer centricity and focusing on profitability as we deliver these projects. This is a significant jump from where we have been in the past, but we feel that given the strategy that existed before, we're doing fine-tuning of that strategy. That fine-tuning of the strategy has given us confidence to aspire for more. We're also doing the right thing to augment our capabilities. Let me highlight six things that I had released in the investor document yesterday, which are critical for us to deliver and execute well on this strategy. The first is the choice of portfolio, as we call it, well-engineered portfolio for our business. It means where we play in terms of geography. We talked about Bombay, Pune, and Mumbai, Pune, and Bengaluru. We talked about customer segments. We're going to play in mid-premium, as well as premium segment. And where necessary, we'll keep an eye out towards value segment also, products, what kind of product portfolio we'll have, what kind of project sizes we'll have, and what kind of deal types that we'll pursue. And you heard about our successful wins on the society redevelopment side. The second part is the robust acquisition engine that is critical for us to deliver on this aspiration. One of the good news I'd like to share here is the Thane land parcel, which we have for some time has received a very favorable IT/ITES policy change, which allows us to practically more than double the GDV value from INR 4,000 crore that we had announced to north of INR 8,000 crore. Obviously, we have a lot of work to do to bring this to the market. It's a mixed-use commercial plus residential requirement from an IT/ITES point of view. But if you want to aspire for INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore pre-sales in five years, Thane will play a major role in us delivering that. The third part is the customer centricity. Mahindra brand stands for a specific customer promise, and we are going to always exceed that through our designs, through our relationship with customers, through our sustainability and technology solutions. That continues to be the differentiator value proposition for all of our customers who trust in Mahindra brand and buy our products. The fourth part of our strategy is to ensure that we deliver an excellence in delivery of the homes we own and also at the right cost structure at the right time frame. You may smile at it, but I want to be the IndiGo of real estate, delivering the products that we promised our customers on time, in line with their expectations, in line with the cost and return that we have internally. We are having a first-time right approach to construction, to very credible construction partners and contractors that will ensure that we deliver those promises in reality. IC & IC has always been a key part of our value proposition. This is how we've been able to extract cash and fund our real estate expansion. It continued to be there. The China Plus One theme, the Indian consumption story, has given a lot of big pipeline that I touched upon and will continue to mine our IC portfolio to support our residential business. And then finally, future-proofing Mahindra Lifespaces through right set of operating model, right set of capabilities, right kind of systems and processes that will set us apart from our competition. Those are the six elements of our strategy. I'm happy to discuss more in the questions. But with these aspirations in line now for us, key part is to start executing really well, and you'll start to see the action of our scale-up journey on the ground in the subsequent quarters. With that, let me pause. I covered the summary of what, how we see the market, what has been our quarter one performance, what our aspiration is, and how the building blocks of that aspiration are. I would be amiss if I were not to highlight the importance of Mahindra Group's backing to support our aspiration. As you may have seen, Mahindra Group has designated Mahindra Lifespaces as a Growth Gem, which means that there'll be a lot of support, a lot of backing, a lot of resource allocation from different ways to support our aspiration. So with that, let me just pause here, request Vimal to jump in from his point of view and share the financial highlights. Thank you, Amit. Good morning to everyone. Moving on to financial performance for Q1 F24, here are the key highlights. The consolidated total income stood at INR 110 crore as against INR 117 crore in Q1 F23. The consolidated EBITDA, including other income and share of profit from JVs, stood at a loss of INR 6.4 crore as against a profit of INR 54 crore in Q1 F23. The consolidated PAT, after non-controlling interest, stood at INR 4.3 crore loss as against a profit of INR 75.4 crore in quarter one FY23. The company has a debt of about INR 270 crore at Ind AS level, while the cash in hand, bank, and mutual fund investment stands at about INR 303 crore. Our cost of debt stood at about 8%. Operating cash flow for the quarter was INR 131 crore without including any outflow on account of land or TDR. That's it from my side. We can move to the question-and-answer session, please. Thank you. Shall we begin with the Q&A session? Yes, please. Go ahead. We will now begin with the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Reading the first question from the line of Mr. Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead, sir. Hi. Hi, Mr. Sinha. Hi, Vimal. Congratulations on a decent quarter, sir. Thanks for outlining your strategy for FY28. First question is on this INR 8,000-10,000 crores of guidance. Quite a jump. So I wanted to understand, right now, we've been doing GDV addition of 3,000, you know, 1,000 crores a year. So now to meet this number, there needs to be almost 3-5x jump in this number as well. So we need to target of 8,000, 10,000. So how is the organization geared up to deliver these kind of numbers? Sorry to interrupt, Parikshit. There's a lot of disturbance. We're not able to make out. Can you just repeat, please? Thank you. Hello. Is it better now? Yes. Yeah. Let's try that, yeah. Yeah, sir. I was saying that thanks for outlining the strategy on INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore of pre-sales by FY28. So obviously, this will involve, 3x-4x jump in your GDV addition, which is right now at about INR 3,500 crore on an average ballpark annually. So how is the organization geared up to deliver those kind of numbers? Because we need to have at least a rolling, a trailing kind of, GDV book off almost 3-4 to 5 times of the numbers which we are looking to deliver on pre-sale. So, Parikshit, if I understood your question a little bit clearly, that, the aspiration is, clear. But what are we thinking about, the GDV additions, and how do we want to, you know, pace that GDV addition, right? Is that the question? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a it's a very valid question, and that's something that we have already started working on internally. So for us to do INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore, I think we'll need to target INR 40,000 crore-INR 50,000 crore of GDV, a simple summary. And we have categorized different types of deals that we need to construct and win. And we call them four categories. The first category is mega deals, which is large deals, like Thane is something which is a really large deal, anything more than INR 5,000 crore. And we need to have two to three of those. With Thane, we already have one in the pipeline, which we already, you know, own. The IT/ITES policy helps us. So of the INR 40,000 crore, let's say lower end to start with, INR 8,000 crore is just one mega deal. Then we have category A, category B, and category C. Category A is anywhere from INR 2,000 crore to INR 5,000 crore GDV. And we at least, we need 4-5 of those. 3 of those, we already have in pipeline, including Kandivali that you think, that you already know about. Citadel, you already know about, they're launching the subsequent phases. Category B, because these larger deals tend to be in, let's say, in Mumbai and obviously large land parcels in Pune and Bengaluru. But typically, in Bengaluru and Pune, you'll find category B, which is INR 1,000 crore-INR 2,000 crore, or category C, between INR 500 crore-INR 1,000 crore deals. So we expect 5 deals of category B and 15 deals of category C that we need to construct and win over the next few years. And for us to achieve this, as I said, on the mega deal, we already have one. Similarly, we have a few for category A, category B, and category C. The question is, how do we create an upstream pipeline, which we are working hard? We are looking at all kinds of outright JDA, society redevelopment, and innovative innovative structures to pursue that. A very large pipeline, that we have already created, a very disciplined stage gate process. And that's allowing us to give us confidence that we'll be able to get to 40-50K GDV over the next few years. INR 5,500 crore that I mentioned on the call does not include Thane. So that's already, you know, 30% there in terms of where we are today. Okay. And in terms of timelines, I mean, are these closures now be more, or instead of being, like, more lopsided towards, like, a particular year-end, will this be more streamlined over the year financially? Because last deal we heard was in April, which was that Malad deal. After that, nothing has really happened. So in terms of, like, announcements, in terms of closures, how do you see the rest of the year planning out, planning out for you, like Q2, Q3, Q4? So any deals happening in Q2, or it'll be more now H2 kind of a thing? My sense is you'll start to see more action in the subsequent quarters, including current quarter. But you're right. I think we are very careful with the choice of deals. It needs to meet, obviously, our IRR return thresholds. But also, you have to negotiate very well with the landowners in terms of what the expectations are. And the right, the last thing I want to do, Parikshit, at this time is, at the peak of the cycle, buy at the highest prices and then bring them to market when the cycle is on the other side. So we're very careful about thinking about the location, the micro-market, the commercials, the pricing impact, the IRR. And those negotiations do take time. But I feel that you'll start to see the outcome of all these efforts in the second half of this year. Okay. My last question is on the launches. So I know this mandatory issue has been going on. So any update on the hearing or Supreme Court hearing on this? And when do you expect to launch this? And what will be the Phase 1 launches of both Citadel and Kandivali for this year? Yeah. So, Parikshit, great question. In fact, this is, Kandivali is a key part of our launch. So we are not waiting Supreme Court decision. We already have a backup plan that we're executing. We expect to launch this at the end of Q3 as of now. How much you're going to open in this phase one? Because I understand this will be almost INR 2,500 crore GDV. Yeah. In phase one, how much? Yeah. Well, phase one is worth INR 1,200 crore of GDV. How much? How much? Sorry. Can you repeat it? 1,200 crore. Roughly INR 1,200 crores. In Citadel? Citadel launch and Citadel phase one will be how big? Yeah. Citadel phase one is launched. Phase two is very close. So it will happen. We're hoping that quarter two, we are able to launch, but towards the end of quarter two or early quarter three, right? Just, you know, the approval process just can't predict. But what was your question, Parikshit? Was the timing or the value? What were you asking? So, both the timing for which you clarified. In terms of value, I think still there'll be about INR 2,000 crore+ of GDV left over here. How much will be the phase two of this project? Yeah. Phase one is already launched. Phase two, which we are expecting to launch end of this quarter, is about INR 700 crores-INR 800 crores. Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Those were my questions. I wish you answers. You got this right because these are the two largest, two of the three largest launches that we have in the current financial year. Yeah, yeah. I think the momentum here, I mean, depends on the price point. If we are able to do it, it would be a big success, and that could add to the Q3 numbers. So my estimate is that Q3 is going to be really big for you. You should make up almost 70%-80% of this year's pre-sale. Correct. Correct. Hopefully, it happens. Thank you, sir. Yeah, yeah. We, we also hope the same. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We take the next question from the line of Mr. Adidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good morning, everyone. So just a follow-up question on Kandivali launch. So where are we exactly on the approvals now considering whatever the Supreme Court judgment on the RG areas? And you said end of Q3. So what is the now launch contingent on in terms of the approvals? That is the first question. Abhi, Adidev, I think we are following the two-pronged strategy. I think the two-pronged strategy gives the Supreme Court judgment comes favorable. We already had IOD. We were ready to launch in a short period of time. We just had to get EC and RERA registration. But the IOD was done, so we were very close. But we held it back because of the Supreme Court, you know, decision, or the imminent decision. However, given where we are today, we said, "Let's not wait for the legal process to come through one way or the other because there could be delays that we can't control there." So we already developed a plan B to say that if the if the judgment comes out, which forces all the developers to abide by the 25% RG rule on mandatory, then what should our design be? Our designs are already. The designs we have redesigned the project. It's complete. We are in the process of reapplying. The approval process takes anywhere from 3-5 months. So we are accelerating that at our end. But that's why the expectation is that if the ruling doesn't help us or gets delayed, we are ready with our plan B, which should have a launch at the end of quarter three. Okay, sir. Yeah, that is helpful. Second question is on our geographical diversification. Obviously, we have so far stuck mainly to Mumbai and Pune as markets and a bit of Bangalore. So to get to this INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore of sort of GDV over a longer term, have you thought about any geographical expansion beyond what we are focusing on currently? Yeah. So, you know, Adidev, I think, we I'll give you some, some data. So right now, we are focusing on MMR, Pune, and Bangalore. I think we believe that we can attain INR 10,000 crore, INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore across these three markets. The MMR market is currently roughly INR 100,000 crores. And we have INR 500 crores. So we have a 0.5% share. In fact, the largest guys, Lodha 7%-8%, have a 7%-8% share. And all the organized players combined are together less than 20%. So there is a significant opportunity for organized players to grow their overall share, in this market alone. And if we target 4%-5% market, which is a modest 4%-5% in five years, that itself will give us INR 5,000-INR 6,000 crore. Because by five years, this market will be INR 150,000 crore. So we feel that that's attainable given the, you know, given what I talked about, Kandivali, Thane, and a few others that we have in the pipeline. Similarly, Pune is roughly INR 60,000 crore. Bangalore is INR 70,000 crore going to be by 2028. And we feel that if we are able to get INR 2,000 crore-INR 3,000 crore of the market in five years from now, that allows us to get INR 6,000 crore from Bombay, INR 2,000 crore from, let's say, Pune, INR 2,000 crore from Bangalore with some puts and takes. And we will go deeper in these markets rather than trying to spread ourselves too thin across more markets. As you know, depth is more valuable in this market than breadth. If we feel that we have attained the market size, in each of those markets, which makes us strong, then we may look at another market. At this time, we feel that focus alone will give us the aspiration that we currently have in mind. Okay, sir. And, sir, last question is on this Thane large land parcel now with whatever the policy changes which have come through. So by when do you think, in the earliest, that we could see a formal launch of this project? And, what are sort of approvals and other things you need to go through to get there? Yeah, broadly, if you could just tell us. Yeah. Yeah. So it will take four to six quarters. Four quarters, if you're very lucky, six quarters from now. Given the IT/ITES policy comes with some conditions and some approval requirements that we are working on, so it'll most likely be next financial year. Okay. So by the current timelines, the second half of FY25 is a reasonable assumption, right, when this project could see the first phase being launched? Yeah. That's a good assumption, Adidev. That's a good assumption. And in fact, it has two parts. Adidev, as you know, 50% is towards IT, which is mostly commercial. 50% is residential, and the policy currently says that for every 1 million sq ft of Resi, you need to deliver 1 million sq ft of commercial. So it requires us to carefully do the planning so that we are able to bring both to the market, and meet with the policy guidelines. And that requires us to work on this deal contours, you know, smartly and creatively. Sure, sure, sure. Sure. That's pretty clear. Yeah. Thank you and all the best. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Mr. Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Firstly, just continuing on with Thane, so you said, you know, 50/50 split between IT and residential. Even the development has to happen, you know, simultaneously. So if, probably if we are not planning to do commercial right now, if maybe if we are looking for a partner, can we still start a development of residential and, you know, maybe later on take the development of IT? So, you know, this is a good question. And that's exactly we are navigating because the commercial, see, the policy, as per our understanding today, and we are trying to clarify it. It's very recent. Is the following you know, it seems to imply that the delivery has to be together, okay? So it's not the construction or launch, but the delivery. I can't offer possession to residential customers till I have done equivalent, let's say, delivery on the commercial side. And the commercial construction cycles are much shorter, compared to residential. So we will have to think through how we navigate through this. But, you know, something that we are working through it right now. Sure. Got it. And this INR 8,000 crore, would, again, be split 50/50, INR 4,000 crore each, residential and commercial, right? Yeah. Actually, the FSI is very high. In fact, the FSI is probably double of what we are trying to consume. So if you look at like, if you were to theoretically multiply the FSI available with the prevailing price in the commercial and residential side, it'd be even higher, much higher. In fact, more than 50%-75% higher. But for us to leverage that land parcel, which is a very pristine land parcel with a lot of greens adjacent to Sanjay Gandhi National Park, we are not planning to consume all the FSI. We want to make a great product that residents will love, corporates will, you know, have, a great, choice of Grade A light you know, Grade A space. Obviously, we have to work on the commercial aspect of it. But it could be a walk-to-work kind of a project that we are thinking through. Those require careful design consideration, commercial consideration, and making sure that we abide by the policy contours. Got it. That's helpful. Just to clarify on your five-year strategy, INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore of sales would all obviously also include IC & IC. What's the contribution split between the two? I mean, IC & IC, would we expect to go to INR 2,000 crore in next, you know, five years? Or INR 500,000 crore is what we are thinking, and the rest would come from residential? You know, IC&IC has, you know, we will, it's going to be closer to INR 500 crore annually, let's say. Because that's a business which is very lumpy. It's something which is very located in specific geography. If we had land parcels across the country, I can say that I can grow it. We have it, you know, as we have articulated strategically, our goal is to use the IC&IC land banks and the infrastructure that we have, to, you know, generate cash that allows us to build our residential business. So I think we are going to smartly manage how we want to sell, at what timing and what prices. But it's not going to be anything significantly more than INR 500 crore annually. Sure. Sure. Got it. Got it. So a large chunk of it would come from the residential itself. Just lastly, on, you know, the margins, not talking about the current ones because I understand the lag between what we recognize and what we book, actually. But in terms of, you know, our target, for the ma for the acquisitions that we do from here on, we have been guiding about 15%-18% kind of EBITDA margin. But, should we, you know, target our or are we going to target, industry-equivalent margins of around 20% and above, from the launches or, or acquisitions that we do from here on? Yeah. So, you know, Pritesh, I think two parts to your question. I think what you see in numbers is a lagging reflection of what was what happened 3, 4, 5 years back. So it's the accounting rule that gets in the way of real economics. But the way we think about it is exactly what you articulated. We are going to we are aspiring for growth, but something that will not do at the expense of profitability. I think, even at Mahindra Group, given my previous role, a profitable balanced growth is what we aspire for. And, you know, in our projects, we target the range that you just talked about as IRR. But as a company, we are we are always looking for 15% ROE for the overall company. And that takes into account the lagging projects that have started earlier but also the projects that we are starting today. So that's how we want to instill financial prudence in our decision-making for future launches as well. Sure. So ROE target is what you keep in mind, rather than the margins? I mean, or what kind of implied margins does this 15% ROE target, you know, have? I'll request Rabindra to jump in here. Sure. I can maybe just repeat once. Yeah, yeah. So I was asking, this 15% ROE target, is it the target that you, you know, is it the only target that you run with? And, what is the kind of implied EBITDA margin that this 15% ROE target has? Is it still, like, 15, 18%, or higher than that? Yeah. So this 15% ROE number is sort of group-mandated number across all Growth Gems to the extent, our aspiration will be to breach that number in the years to come. Now, the other point on EBITDA margin or IRRs, it fundamentally gets driven at project level. For example, our project IRRs will be upwards of 15%, irrespective of the project and the location or the geography we are getting into. Our gross margins usually will be 20%+ after taking into consideration all the costs, which are at direct level, as well as the allocation, which comes so far as that project is concerned. Sure. Got it. That's it from my side. All the best. Thank you, Pritesh. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Mr. Shreyans Mehta from Equirius Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Few clarifications as far as, you know, the launch of our redevelopment projects. And, Dahisar, are we on track for the same? So, Sriyant, great question. We have two society redevelopment projects in pipeline. The first one was won in January. The second one was in April, in Navi Mumbai. The first one is Santac ruz. We are targeting the launch of both the projects in Q4. However, it's. I'll be honest. It's a learning for us. It's very different from just buying a land parcel. In this case, in one society, we have 70-plus residents. The other society, we have 170 residents. For us to get clearance, we need to make sure that each and every to contact with each and every individual homeowner who's staying in that complex is done. We want to do it in the right way. We are not trying to find a shortcut to accelerate. We want to be doing the right thing with each of the existing residents as well as buyers. So my sense is both of them should happen in quarter four. But I'll update you at the end of quarter three if you are able to, you know, if you are facing some hurdles in getting them off the ground. But it's a key priority for us. My teams are very focused on making sure that we bring these to market before we start signing any new, major redevelopment projects. Sure. And as far as Dahisar is concerned? Yeah. So Dahisar is something which we have not included in the current financial year, because it's still awaiting some approvals, which without which we cannot move ahead. So we are awaiting for those approvals. Got it. Got it. Got it. Second is on our IC & IC part. You know, this quarter was on a very soft side. So any particular reason for it? And how do you see, you know, the full year panning out? Yeah. So, you know, this is a business which is a lumpy business, as I touched upon earlier. We have a very healthy pipeline, Saurabh. And it's, it'll start to convert in the later, later quarters. You know, after the financial year end, things slow down typically as we have seen. And, you probably saw there was a huge deal that we signed in quarter four, in March, very end, like, even the last day. So, my sense is, the China Plus One, India consumption story, India growth story actually is real for after a long time. We will see deals that are coming through. And I see I have, a huge amount of LOI that I see. Converting it is something that, that we are working hard. As you know, we tend to be, you know, we have a bit of competition from some of the other cheaper sources of land parcels that are provided by, let's say, local and, like, government and GIDC, MIDC kind of equivalent. So we have to make sure that the customers understand the value proposition that we provide. And there are certain segments of customer that really love us, and that is working well for us. So we wait for the right customers. There is no reason for us to be hasty in offering our pristine land with all the infrastructure to at the lowest price point. So we are always waiting for the right customer. But it tends to be lumpy. And hopefully, we'll see more action given the pipeline that we see today. Got it. Got it. And lastly, any new updates as far as our Actis deal is concerned and Origins, Ahmedabad, and Pune? So three questions, I think, right? Yes. Origins, Ahmedabad, Pune, and the Actis deal, right? So I'll, I'll ask Rabindra to jump in for the Actis deal. But the Ahmedabad, that's something that we are always looking for the right client. We have gotten a lot of interest from very small clients. We are awaiting the right anchor client. It will not make sense for us to start developing that land parcel, given where it's located with a small 5-acre client. We want to do it with a 50, 30, or decent size. But we are also thinking about how best to monetize Ahmedabad. So those discussions are underway. Urse is a key priority for us. We are addressing some of the contiguity and access issues, which should be able to bring to market in the next 12 months. We are pushing for this financial year. It will be tough for us to get it in this financial year. Around this time, we'll start to launch Urse. The location is fantastic. It comes, it's, like, 25, 30 kilometers from Pune. Given Pune's prominence in the industrial roadmap, we think it'll be a, you know, a, a blockbuster success as soon as we are able to bring it. Even some of the guys who own the contiguous, who are, who own the land that is preventing the contiguity, they also know that. That's the problem that we are trying to solve on Urse. I'll request Rabindra to jump in on the BTS side. Yeah, Shreyans. So far as the B2B industrial and warehousing platform is concerned, as I had updated last quarter, the management team is in place. They have come out strongly. We are evaluating multiple land propositions and proposals, with the Indian Logistics Policy getting announced, huge focus on infra development and all. We continue to believe that, we are in sort of, good industry, per se. You should see some action in the next 2 or 3 quarters on that front. Got it. Got it. Got it. Thank you. That's it from my side. All the best. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Mr. Rohit from Marshmallow Capital. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. And, and thank you for such detailed articulation of the strategy. It's very helpful. Now, I mean, I want to refer to your commentary in my question. So you mentioned that we are in the second year of the Resi cycle right now. And, coupled with the fact that we are planning to hit a we are, targeting a INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore GDV five years out, so it'll be the seventh or eighth year of the cycle at that point in time. So I'm just curious, you know, because you also mentioned in your opening remarks that it's a cyclical sector, right? So you're talking about the seventh or eighth year of the cycle where if you're doing so well, the others also will be doing well. And the markets can be quite good. How do you marry discipline in underwriting, and reaching the target, so late into the cycle? How do you think about this angle in your strategy? Yeah. No, it's a great question, Rohit. And I'm glad you asked. I think, this is where, I worry a lot about signing the wrong deals. And that's why, I think, in an earlier question, talked about I think, Parikshit, you asked that question. If you buy at the top of the cycle and you sell when the cycle slows down, you know, your economies go down the drain, literally. And that's something that we really want to avoid. So given that, we are very careful, and we have a very detailed analysis of each of the micro markets within the three cities that I touched upon where we participate. So, Bangalore, Pune, they have very healthy absorption. MMR has healthy absorption but in certain micro markets. So we are carefully choosing where we want to participate, what is the product that we want to bring in, what is the right price point given Mahindra brand promise and the location and the competitive nature of that. So all those things go in our assessment as we look at the business case, underwriting for what we are trying to the GDVs that we are trying to build in. Now, we are definite that we will hit a pocket of slowdown in the next seven years. Now, question is, how do we accelerate if we sign the deal, the question is, how do we accelerate bringing them to the market so at least we lock in the initial sales velocity and able to sell through sustained? But the last part for me is the market today, as I touched upon, is very large. In Bombay is, you know, INR 150,000 crore by 2028, INR 100,000+ today. All the organized players today together are less than 20%. 80% are local or maybe, at best, regional developers, right, given RERA, given GST, given all the other, let's say and let me use the word, constraints that they have to manage through. I see a, you know, consolidation or exit happening for many of them. And that allows, the opportunity that gives the organized players the opportunity to capture that space pretty quickly. And if we are able to do that, we will have no challenge achieving the aspiration. No doubt, we have to sign the right deals with all the analytics that I mentioned. No doubt, we need to be prepared for a slowdown when it happens. The question is not if. It's a question of when it happens. But then the macro sentiments are favorable for us to capitalize on. Perfect. Thank you so much. And this is a very helpful answer. And I'll probably keep asking it every year or so to understand where we are in the cycle. My second question is, you touched a lot upon I mean, it was very heartening to hear you touch a lot upon how we will enjoy the Mahindra Group support. And we are seen as one of the Growth Gems. So I've been investing more in three years. And this, this is great to see. And we can also see that evidence in the Kandivali parcel. And probably more such parcels, hopefully, will come through for us. So in this aspiration, when we talk about support, do you see us requiring some sort of capital infusion? And, do you see that coming from the group level? That is one. Second, one observation is, in general, we don't see much of private equity infusion into the residential space, at least. We do see it in other spaces in the real estate sector but not so much in residential. So do you see that Indian real estate or Mahindra residential real estate getting interest from private equity, going forward? So two questions broadly on capital in general. Yeah. Yeah. But that's a great, great point, Rohit. But let me just touch one subtle point that you talked about, Mahindra supporting us. Mahindra is very supportive. But when it comes to selling land to us, it's an arm's length. And to negotiate as hard as they have they do from their side. So, you know, this is true economic value given the, they are kind of, well, they are majority shareholder for us, all the transactions at arm's length, including the Kandivali where we had to really negotiate hard with them. So on a lighter note, you know, they are not as easy as a counterparty. But on the capital side, I think all sources are open. And let me touch, you know, we already have strong accruals on the residential side. We have IC & IC. We generate a lot of cash, cash which allows us to fund our residential growth. We have a healthy debt-to-equity ratio that gives us the opportunity to take debt, if we want, when we want. We are also looking at platforms. You rightly touched, there's not been much private equity interest on the Resi side because most of that interest went to the commercial side, right? And you know, commercial a little bit slow and probably tapped out with the biggies already taking a space or part of the action already. We're starting to see a lot of interest from the private equity players, especially the patient capital, on their Resi platform. The issue tends to be, how do you exit them? So we are working with some of the potential investors, private equity, patient capital partners to see how we can structure the Resi platform, early stages. But a lot of effort is starting to go in, in that direction because our 8,000-10,000 will require us to find alternate sources of funding for the interim peak that we'll face in three years from now. And, and that's something that we're starting to think already. So that, that is a great question. But I will have concrete answers in the subsequent quarter. But at least, theoretically, this is how we are solving it. Thank you. So last question from my end is this target of INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore. So what does it mean? So let's say we do so we have many models, right? We'll have JDA, joint venture. We'll have outright land purchase. Are there any other formats? And when we say INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore, is it the, let's say there's a JDA where we have 60%-65% of the economic share, right? So is this only our share of what will accrue to our P&L that we count as INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore? Or is it whatever is branded as Mahindra product, the entire project called GDV that is the scale, booking number that will be considered INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore? Yeah. So that's a great question. I think when we look at, so there are three kinds of deals that we predominantly do. We do outright purchase. We do society redevelopment. And we do JDAs. And in our, as I mentioned, you know, mega-deal category A, B, and C, we also modeled what would be the typical percentage that we want to adhere to for JDA, for outright and for, let's say, society redevelopment. And, you know, at least in Pune and Bangalore, it'll be mostly outright. In Bombay, you'll see more of JDA, more of society redevelopment, some in different parts of Bombay, Mumbai, you'll see outright. This number that we have includes total, at least on the pre-sale side. And in the financial that we'll report, we'll have the reflection of each of these three, you know, each of these three types of deals. At least, we want to make sure that, in the sales part, we're reflecting the true economics. Understood. So the pre-sales of INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore is the total, even if it is the 60% JDA like that, we'll be taking the whole 100% pre-sales value in our target. That's what we mean, right? Yeah. Theoretically, yes. But we'll not have 50%. We'll probably be from a financial return point of view, it'll be tough for us to make the returns work, right? So we have factored. Let's not use exact, but lower percentage, much lower percentage than what you said. Sure. Yeah. I guess it's an indicative number. But, yeah, thank you. That's it from me. It was a great call. Thank you so much for your time. No, thank you, Rohit, for your questions. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Mr. Himanshu Upadhyay from O3 PMS. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah. Hi. Good morning. Am I audible? Yeah. We can hear you. Hello. Yeah. See, if one thing which I appreciate this company, okay, is the point number three, okay, in your growth strategy, okay. And which is that, if we look at your customer-centricity versus peers, now, historically, you have been always highly rated, okay, on that aspect. And your rating in terms of peers has been always good in most of the micro markets where you have been there, okay? 1 or 2 places, it may be there. But it happens in a business of capital allocation, okay? But I would say, overall, we have been generally better than most of the peers in most micro markets, okay? But even if I have historically and this is not just today, okay? This has been 5 years back also and even 7, 8 years back also when I started tracking this company or understanding this company. But the historically, the profits have been generally lower than the peers, okay? Now, there can be two issues on this, okay? One is costing. The other is, we are not able to charge for what we should be getting in the market, okay? How are you looking at it? The pricing of the finished product or the final product, are we doing something on that also? Because, as an outsider, if a company's product is valued by the customers, I believe it should also be the most profitable company, okay? But in our case, not just today but historically also, that has not been the case, okay? So either costs are to be refocused or the pricing level we have to take further high. Are we so confident? Are we having that confidence to bring the pricing higher to also get higher value what we are providing to the customers? Can you elaborate on that part? No, great question. Himanshu, I'm glad you asked because this is a question I have raised with my teams. And we are creatively looking for ways to address it. And so you touched upon, actually, two points. But let me just try to address two and maybe add one more thing. Pricing, you know, is something that is a balancing act. Many times, even though we know that we are leaving money on the table, we do it for the reasons of velocity so that you can upfront cash. And the question is, what is the right price point? Where would the pendulum swing? Which is the right battleground? That's something, given, you know, the Mahindra brand promise, given all the things that you touched upon in terms of trust we carry with our customers, we always feel that we are leaving money on the table at times. We will try to fine-tune that. I don't think we'll ever be able to capture 100% of that money that we are leaving on the table. But we want to know how much money we are leaving on the table for the sake of velocity, not for value proposition point of view. So we're going to do some experiments. We're going to do some attempts at different launches to see what is the best way for us to capture the right price point for the value proposition we offer to our customers. But we also have to keep in mind the velocity to fund, the cash flow needs of the project. So that's the balancing act on the pricing. It's a very sophisticated effort that we have. Vimalendra Singh, who's head of our sales, pricing, and customer experience and facility management, is actually working very closely now with Vimal Agarwal, CFO. So they sit on the opposite sides of what the pricing should be for us to deliver the IRRs that we seek. The other point you raised is on the cost side. I think we've had issues, honestly, sharing that what we planned for an IRR at the start of the project versus where we ended, we actually had dilution. That's why we now have a costing center of excellence, which has been constituted in the last 6-9 months, 1 year. We also have a contracting department, which is extremely savvy in terms of how they contract out. But I think I'm pushing this to the next level, like, the ratios of constructed area to saleable area or RERA. I think we can do better at those. And in each and every of our launch, we are going to abide by certain principles which are informed by each city, and each city's local law. And I just gave an example of design, the efficiency of the constructed area. But there are how do you design bathrooms? How do you design your, you know, windows? How do you with this design, what kind of tiles you source? All those things are part of scaling our business from a cost point of view, which gives us a much improved cost position. So these two things together should give us better returns, better IRRs, and then a discipline to follow through, what you say at the start of the project, which is to the accountability that we are working through. Yeah, secondly, see, we have stated about re-evaluating capital allocation at the Mahindra Group, okay? And that has happened, okay? But in our case, see, we are into IC. Where the margins are high, but the cycle is very, very long, okay? And the risk is, long cycle me can. Lost the first part of your question. Can you say what Mahindra Group capital allocation? We didn't hear that. No, so what I stated was, in the last few years, Mahindra Group has focused on, capital allocation and improving the return ratios, okay? Correct, correct, correct. And in our business, where we see we have three models, okay? One is IC, where the margins are high, but a very long cycle, okay? And long cycle is the bigger risk, okay? And the Happinest, where the margins are low, but velocity has to be very, very high to make the money, okay? And, and the third one is our, what we are doing or mid-premium housing, okay? Are we looking at, doing the capital allocation, or have we reevaluated our capital allocation in all these, three businesses? Because even when we look at your, pending inventory, okay, in the case of Happinest, if, the project where IRRs are very tight and if my inventory of 55, let's say, in Boisar and we see 79 in Palghar 1 itself are pending, my IRR can get a very, very strong hit, okay? In the way the company is and we are process-oriented, and that can take time, are these two business models really important for us? And have we thought about our capital allocation strategy? And see, INR 1,800 crore balance sheet is good, okay? No leverage. But if you want to go around INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore and you are yourself saying that, you need INR 40,000 crore of deals, for that business to grow, see, are we going to or is that business getting sacrificed on these two businesses, which are slightly more riskier also in terms of IRRs? The execution does not happen. Hello? Yeah. No, no, Himanshu, got the question. Let me ask Vimal to jump in. And I'll comment after that if I need to. So, fundamentally, Himanshu, three, four points here, starting from the fact that capital allocation, very, very focused, do not intend to get into business segments, projects, or geographies where we believe that the IRR will not get delivered. And I'm emphasizing on the word delivered here. That's one. Second, you talked about IC business. The very fact that we are not doing whole hog investing into further expansion of IC business with eyes closed and focused on increasing the velocity or capex cash upstream efforts fundamentally sort of should give confidence to all of us that in terms of approach, we are on track. You talked about Boisar and Palghar. I just want to reassure you that the numbers will be high, because the sheer topography, which we have, or the location we have, the values are signi— are almost insignificant in the overall scheme of things. Kalyan 1 was the biggest affordable Happinest project we did, where we had sold about 80% inventory at the time of launch itself. The other thing is, if you were to go back and you talked about INR 1,800 crores of balance sheet size, if you go back and look at our balance sheet, say, about three years back, there used to be a long list of assets, which was there in the balance sheet but not really actively contributing towards operating cash flow and therefore delivering our IRR or ROE aspirations. In the last two and a half, three years, we have unlocked many of those assets. And that the intent, again, is to sort of even if I don't make significant cut, let me just get the cash in, deploy it back so that I can make that money work for, for, for newer projects. And fundamentally, therefore, the key point is that we'll be we continue to be extremely mindful of the investment and the choices we are making. That will be the theme, as we deliver on this INR 8,000 crore-INR 10,000 crore guideline in FY28. Vimal, if we can just, one small thing. If in the we have done Happinest in IC business also, okay? If we remove that, Happinest business in IC and we have taken, let's say, projects, at Boisar and Palghar and all those things, are we confident on those type of projects on the whole capital allocation at high Happinest being upwards of 18% IRRs, which we have bought third-party, not the IC land because that is very cheap land, okay? Yeah. Himanshu, two clarifications. One is so far as Happinest within both cities concerned, that also gets driven by the statutory requirements. That's one. Second is that we do not tend to differentiate between a Happinest product premium or a mid-premium project so far as the financial guardrails and deliverables are concerned. Okay. But are we whatever we expected because Happinest is today 7-8 years old product what we are doing in the market, are we on, having that clarity or, are we able to get those IRRs what we would have intended for in the initial launch of this product or when this was conceived 8-10 years back? Yeah. So, sort of mixed bag. Out of three or four projects, which we have, I'll say that, two projects we certainly would have overachieved. One or two projects, we would have either delivered or struggled a little. But like any other, so the key point is not differentiating even at operating level, even at delivery level, even in identifying the challenges we have on the affordable or the Happinest side. Therefore, Amit in his previous conversation did mention that we'll be mindful so far as choosing of the project is concerned and therefore delivery is concerned. Okay. And yeah, yeah. Anything you want to add? You stated that after CFO, you'd like to add. Vimal has covered everything. Thanks very much. Okay. And one final question. See, in the last two quarters, if we see the collections have been flattish, and construction spend has nearly doubled to what was last one year, okay? And the surplus cash has been lesser, okay? But as more projects are now to be completed than what we have sold in the next one or two years, do you think the surplus cash would be slightly or lower than what was in FY22/23 when this was around INR 800 crore between what we were collecting and what we were selling? I mean, what we were collecting and what we were doing construction spend because launches have been generally higher than our completions. So any thoughts on that? At an overall level, see, the operating cash for the company continues to be strong. Last year, for example, we delivered upwards of INR 650 crores. And because we are able to bring the product much, much earlier than, say, what we were doing two, three years back, our ability to launch, get initial bookings, and so therefore, the cash collections are fairly strong. I hope that our work done and construction expense continues to grow because that is reflective of the health of the project execution, engine, which we have. And to that extent, whatever surplus comes in will certainly get redeployed for the newer land acquisition. And hopefully, we'll get much more headroom to acquire more and launch new projects. And therefore, the base will further go up. Okay. Thank you. That's all from my side. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Mr. Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah. Thank you for taking my question. So, so most of my questions are already answered. I mean, there's a couple of questions and mostly sort of clarification. So, first one on, on our deal pipeline. So when I look at the number, I mean, it's been, in the range of INR 5,000-INR 5,500 crore rupees for some time now. And I understand it was deliberate because we were looking to add INR 2,500 crores on a yearly basis. So where, wherein, I mean, the number would have been able to suffice. Now, given the fact that they've given us a, a strategy, long-term strategy, wherein we intend to kind of scale to INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore rupees of number in terms of, residential real estate, and you would need at least INR 40,000 crore rupees of GDV to be able to manage that number. When do we start seeing this number at INR 5,500 crore? I mean, when do you think, I mean, it'll start moving up, which is where, I mean, you'll be able to build the pipeline and time to be able to kind of scale to that number? I mean, is it that next year onwards or, or, I mean, you would want to wait for some more time to see whether the cycle would stay like this and then take a call, or how, how I mean, how does the situation, I mean, how, how does it look to you, I mean, in terms of timelines that you would need to be able to scale start scaling up your deal pipeline? Great question, Prem. I just want to clarify two things. First is that 5,500 did not include Thane, which is 4,000 before last month. Now, Thane itself is 8,000. While we are keeping it out, you can, just for clarity, assume that 8,000 plus 5,000, that's a big GDV pipeline that we have. Obviously, there'll be some puts and takes. Some we will convert. Some we will lose because the final negotiations are on. As I mentioned earlier, we right now have enough to chew. GDV allows us to create the pipeline for the next year. I just don't want to rush into any transaction given the point I made about we are at the peak of the cycle or the top of the cycle. I just want to be thoughtful and careful of which deals, which locations, which contracts, deal contracts we end up signing. So you'll start to see the news in the next, let's say, quarter, two quarters. But don't want to be hasty in closing the deals and then repent that we, you know, we got a, you know, deal that was too expensive for us from a return perspective. But just want to make sure that 5,500 is not the full story you have plus 8,000, but also we have a discipline process that we'll always follow. Sure. And just to continue on our, our long-term strategy, so I understand, I mean, in terms of finance, I mean, we won't face any issues because of our I mean, the visibility that we have in terms of, surplus from our existing projects plus I mean, the group support that you, spoke about, I mean, earlier in the call. And even in terms of, I mean, deal, again, would not be a problem because, I mean, we have that kind of opportunity size in India. But how about, I mean, the other resources, especially the manpower? Because when you want to scale from, let's say, 2,000 to 8,000 or I mean, you would need more people on your side, right? What we've seen is essentially nowadays, I mean, it seems as though, I mean, it's been a little difficult to be able to find right talent because the industry is growing, and everyone is looking to kind of hire more people. So how easy or difficult is it to be able to find right talent, today, I mean, given the situation the way it is, I mean, the kind of exuberance that we have on the real estate side? Yeah. That's a that's a very valid question, Prem. And I'll put my previous jobs hat, like at the House of, M&M, head of strategy. I think, however, we have a very strong brand pull, not only the question that, Himanshu asked from a, customer point of view but from an employee point of view also. Given what has happened in some of the other sectors, especially tech in the last 12 months, a lot of, not only attrition but also, exits, as a result of retrenchment. There is a, I would say, flight of employees to a employer of comfort, employer of confidence, employer somebody who will give them a career. So that's that is a good very strong draw for us. Our brand allows us to do that. It doesn't take away the fact that for us to grow from where we are, we'll need to augment our, you know, capacity at all levels. We are working towards it. We've never had issues in attracting, people. The question is, now we have the opportunity to give them an aspiration, a dream to live. I think we'll be able to attract many more employees who'll love to participate in this dream and be part of this delivery. Sure. And just one last, if I may, please, on our IC & IC vertical, over the last few years, we've seen DTA move seriously good for us. But then on the SEZ side, it's been a little slow in Jaipur. And we still have a pretty significant chunk to go there. So any thoughts? I mean, is it possible to be able to convert a part of this, and move it to DTA? I mean, the way we did that kind of—I mean, we did that kind of exercise some time back as well, I mean, wherein we had run out of DTA, and we've converted a part of our SEZ into DTA. So is it still possible to be able to convert a part of this SEZ into DTA? Or do we have plans to be able to kind of monetize this SEZ? I mean, structure it in a manner wherein, I mean, it becomes all the more lucrative for the seekers? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And very valid value unlock point that you are talking about. We are already working on it. We are, you know, as you know, government, RIICO is a partner with us in the Mahindra World City, Jaipur. And we are discussing with them how best to find ways for us to convert from SEZ to DTA. We already have experience of doing that in Chennai. We are sharing some case studies. It's also useful to see there is a central-level effort going on given the lack of traction on many of the SEZ through the DESH Bill, which will also help us. But you rightly touched upon a great value unlock point. We are working on it with our partners. Sure. That answers. Thank you. Thanks a lot for answering my question. All the very best for future. Thank you. Thank you, Prem. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Sinha for closing comments. Very good. You know, I think a good, you know, very engaging 75 minutes of the discussion. I really appreciate the opportunity to address the question that you had. I just want to rehash three points I raised at the start of the meeting, that we are, at a macro level, at the industry level, we see a huge buoyancy, momentum in the market. And I think we'll continue for some time despite high interest rate, despite slowdown. The residential segment will continue to be a key part of the future growth. And I think that the flight to quality towards grade A developers, branded developers, will continue to help some of us more than the others. So that was my first point about the overall market sentiment. I covered the key highlights of the business. We have a healthy sustained sales that's reflected in quarter one, but very exciting set of new launches that we have planned including the Kandivali launch, which we will we have a plan B in progress. And the third part I covered was our strategy to 5x growth from where we are to INR 8,000-INR 10,000 crore of sales in the next five years inclusive of IC business. And that is really exciting for us. And that's happening because of what we have delivered in the past few years, the strategy that we have articulated, which is augmenting the past work but also the support we have from the Mahindra Group that we have. The IC business is a key part of extracting cash and, you know, helping us achieve the aspiration. And there are many resources of capital that will help us attain that. So we look forward to staying in touch with you, sharing good news as well as any other news that we have, and continue to seek your counsel, feedback, and guidance as we continue our growth journey. Thank you. Thank you to everybody. We'll be in touch. Thank you. On behalf of Mahindra Lifespace Developers Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.