The chairman and the board saying that, You are here. This is the destination, this is the way. Nothing works like that. Right. Execution. Execution is a different type of, you know, everywhere, so far our understanding is very clear, consumers are beyond God. Yeah. You get every aspect of whatever customer experience, customer liking or whatever you talk about, you get it right. Once you get it right, the top line starts building. Okay. We are a firm believer that without that line there is no line. Please come. Okay. We can do one more chair. We may share a range. No, please come. Please come. Chair. First is to whatever I was talking to you. You give iQube, you give Jupiter, you give Ntorq. Customer doesn't know technology. Okay? Even yesterday I met one iQube customer, I asked him, Sir, this is exactly like Jupiter, sir. I can take my entire family in this. I said, How many people? Five people. Okay. Myself, wife, three kids. It carries load also, sir. Oh, very good. I carry this bag, that bag. Then I said, Good roads, bad roads. No problem, sir. Any flyover, any gradient it flies, no problem. In his mind, But it gives you many digital things, sir. It's like a smartphone. They think very. Their mind is very simple. Sometimes we become engineers, we start looking at technology and say that, Look, we have to complicate our lives. No. Exactly what is designed in iQube is that. You completely understand that there are set of customers- Mm. Very young, very aspirational, who look at: Do you have this, this technologies in this? Because they know the technology, they can argue. For example, if you look at my Apache RR 310 customers, I have to be very clear that my sales boy or sales girl matches the knowledge of that person, because he will have his own cars, he will have certain high-end experience. So he is buying the vehicle for certain technology which he wants. But when I look at iQube or when I look at Jupiter, it's a very common consumer who is looking at total cost of ownership. And he said that, It is matching me. It is going to give me these benefits. Right. So depending upon the type of the customer, you have to make that trade-off. That's exactly what we have done. Sir, are you explaining why, you know, TVS has been very successful in each of the new categories, whether it is motorcycles. You have gained market share across. In fact, probably I would say you've been one of the best auto companies in the last five years, seven years. Gained market share in three-wheelers, in motorcycles, in scooters. Mm-hmm. Now even with electric vehicles. Is that? That's primarily because of two things. One, my existing customers are very happy with me. Right. Because the leakage doesn't happen. I have to make sure that my existing customers stay with me. There I have to make sure that my service, my availability, the way I treat them. Right. This is very good. On top of it, those people who are not considering me keeps coming. That's where you get your market share gets added. Right. For that you need interventions on products and technology and features and things like that. Both, you have to do it in a balanced way. Far better product introductions, that's product development skills and understanding the consumer. Am I hitting right? Absolutely. 2.2 points. Absolutely. This side, your existing customers, keep delighting them. Delight the customer. Bring the segments where you are not there, bring new products and new set of customers. That helps you in gaining the market share, growing the business ahead of the industry. That is fundamental. Right. If the top line doesn't grow, there's no line. Right. That is the way also, if you look at the stakeholders other than the customers, dealers, distributors, they want a better and better volume. Correct? Very good. Suppliers want better and better volume. Company wants better and better volume. This is something across the entire supply chain depends upon volume. Correct. Okay. Once you have volume, then the next question of, okay, how do you optimize the cost? What are things we can look at, commonization? What are things you can look at leveraging the sourcing? Including optimizing the marketing cost. Can we go certain brands on digital, certain brands, you know, look at which are the target segments. All these opportunities are there. That's exactly what we have done. More power to you. Sir, just to understand this, you know, you, sir, talked about feeding the supply chain. As your volumes... Because you're making investments. More than probably your investments are your suppliers' investments. Am I correct? Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. This is an ancillaries business, right? Correct. Some hundreds of parts coming from. The more scale you have, the more scale they have. Absolutely. Right? Therefore, your economies of scale becomes better with greater scale because. Right? You know, sometimes we wonder, your margin is at 10% relative to the others. Is it a factor of your investments relative to others? Are you more ancillarized? Your gross block to sales. I won't say that because. Are you less integrated than some of the others? That's why your margins are See, I don't want to comment about others. Okay. Okay? Because some people, I know where you are coming from. Some people, their depreciation is quarterly half of ours. Right. Okay? Let me put it this way. That answers his question. We are investing. That's why my depreciation is also high. Sure. See, there are many people here. India has got possibly two seasons or three seasons. New year. Many of the areas there is a April, May marriage season. Then, of course, Diwali season, Puja season. When you get into any buy, what do you look for? Something new, right? Sure. Something new, something exciting. Okay? If you are going to be a customer-oriented company, we have to do that. You can also keep flogging your existing brands and say, This is what I'll give, because my main selling point is going to be depreciation. Nothing wrong with it. You can look at even maximizing your returns at the bottom. You know, I was driving at that because you're I'll finish. Sorry. My apologies. In that process, what are you compromising? You may be compromising your market share. You may be compromising your overall volume. You may get better and better return on investment or EBITDA in the bottom line, in the bottom. How long? We are a firm believer that there has to be win-win then. With the customer, with the stakeholders. When I say stakeholders, from our EV, it is going to be partners who are going to partner with you on charging or any other infrastructure. Okay? Or on this side, it's going to be consumers through distributors or dealers. Okay? In international markets, maybe distributors. Here, some partners on supply chain. It is not the content what you make in-house or outside. That is a pure make-and-buy or make-or-buy decision. It can influence little bit of whatever you talked about. The basic issue is volume. Top line. Because of the flow through of economies of scale. Beyond the point, if the top line is not going to come, you buy everything from outside also, the EBITDA will not be there. I promise you that. No. Getting the product right, the customer happy, delighted, and going ahead of the industry is going to take care of. That is exactly what has happened to us. You know how we were at the EBITDA. Absolutely. Five years back, many of you have asked me, It's so many products. Why you are not gaining market share? Why you are lagging behind? Now, you yourself is confirming back to me that you are growing in all segments. The growth is there because customers love you. Customers see a lot of new things from you, new technologies from you, correct? That is okay. Customer satisfaction is okay. Okay? You have seen the J.D. Power results. Okay? Now, if you look at the last possibly four quarters, six quarters, lot of headwinds, but we are at 10%. Now, the next question, is 10 good enough? Okay? When you look at competition, others. Absolutely. Questions are very, very valid. The choice of the strategy is, number one, customer never compromise. Number two, the entire end-to-end. Number three, I'm pretty confident that in this journey you will see better and better EBITDA going forward. Because there is a process, when the distributors, dealers and the company and everybody is happy. The first thing, all your costs will get amortized over a higher volume. Which you agree, correct? Yep. When you have, say some brand doing 25,000, doing 30,000, 40,000, I can start looking at, Hey, you're a supplier. I gave you this capacity. Can I have one more? When one more comes, automatically you know what happens. Margin will go up. No, there will be some competition, there will be some stretch. This guy will say. Sure Okay, I'll give you 2% lesser, 3% lesser. This lesser, how much lesser, what stretch? I think there is a good way of looking at it, because we don't want to compromise on the quality. Okay? We took very good effort in looking at import content, how do we bring it down? How do we encourage many of the Indian suppliers? We used to have 20%, 25%, 24%. Now it has come to 7%. The international? Import. Import. Yeah. They also brought Chinese players here. Some of the Chinese suppliers, I think we made them make plant here. Alloy Wheel, for example. Nobody was there in India. We brought one of the suppliers to establish facility here. Now only many of the Indian suppliers have started. It is possible through partnership, many things, but it requires time. It won't happen quarter on quarter, I can promise you. We are not looking at export. We are also gauging the future with a three year-five year view. Yeah. In three year-five years, I promise you will see we will continue to grow on the top line, market share, cost will come down, EBITDA will move up. Also margins. Yeah. If EBITDA has to move up, you have to have. No, are you in line with the sales or will you file higher than that? I am not so much worried about. Mathematically, in the PowerPoint, everything works. I think what we have to look at is not compromising on an investment for future. Technology, brands, countries, marketing efforts, because that is going to be the propeller of future growth. Your huge investment which is sitting on the balance sheet, you have done over a period of time, which is not paid out yet, is it right way to assume so? Let me put a little bit of Yes. Okay. Four years back, five years back, the same questions we had on PT TVS. Yes. Credit Services. Credit Services. We have invested. I don't think anyone of you have got any questions. Correct. One of the best managed retail financing companies is the TVS Credit Services today. He can- The book size is growing. It's crossed INR 16,000 crore now. All capital adequacy is everything. Collections, very good. I have not provided for the last four months for NPAs. To that extent, it is robust. It started off with only TVS Motor. Now- 100% two-wheelers. Now it's only 20% for the overall business, 20%-25%. The 75% comes from other sectors. It's really a well-run business. PT TVS, we started off. We have our own facility there, plant. Almost 40 expats, now just two expats, local people. We used to export 1,000 vehicles. Now 10,000 per month. Three-wheelers, 2,000 per month. Huge opportunity to grow. What are the gaps in the export market now? No one has got better experience apart from you and Bajaj from the export market. What are the gaps left now? Export market has plenty of opportunity. Plenty, because the size, 65 million last year number, but globally last year number. Two-wheelers are predominantly the kind of. These are all developing markets. We may not talk about developed markets. In the developing markets, if you look at it, similar challenges what I have seen in our rural. You travel across Africa, LATAM, Middle East. The moment you come to urban area, you will see Indian. If you go to rural, huge opportunity. With the education level going up and government's involvement in building infrastructure and lack of public transport, I think this 60 million has got huge opportunity to grow. Number one. Number two, we always used to have a big challenge of Chinese competition. 30% lower prices, 40% lower prices. We went... People used to tell me, No, no. I think the concept of total cost of ownership, it required some articulation. Okay, I maybe $500, you maybe $300 today. But this $500 means its durability will be. Life cycle. Life cycle will be so much. Net-net, you are going to save. Some people believe, some people don't. Today, I don't have to educate them. Whether it is TVS or Bajaj, people say that it's far superior whereby. To me, sky is the limit. We should not compromise on durability, quality. What TVS especially did is service. See, what happens, typically in a two-wheeler, the first service is after 1,000 km. India, after one month, people normally use 30 km per day. There they use 200 km per day. Wow. Because they don't. They use it full-time. 200 km, how many days are per service? Five days. We made sure that we send the spare parts first, and we train all the service people there much before the OE itself is sent. After one week, two weeks, if you don't have parts, then what will they do? You have certain comfort of anybody who has got a car or a two-wheeler, you are asked to take a public transport, you look at their pain, especially in the morning, you know? That five minutes, the flexibility it gives, okay? I've seen people will get restless. Five minutes you have, and in Indian context, especially Bangalore context, I can tell you anybody wants, they will take only three-wheeler or two-wheeler. Everywhere it is jam. It is not the distance. Every aspect of the consumer when you look at it, I don't think there is any. Full potential, if you ask me, huge. Huge. What do you mean? Yeah. Challenges, again, some countries they will be having some Forex problem. Now the tailwind is there, at least from the oil prices. Oil prices also will be stable. See, I always look at it this way. Some markets will go up, some markets will come down. For example, Sri Lanka is one of our best markets. Iran used to be best. Iran used to be. I can give you list after list. Myanmar used to be best. Three markets are not there for TVS. Still, we are doing more than 100,000. Before you joined, I think we have now put Raider. Easily, I can sell 10,000. I can take it to the next level because consumers are there. They're saying, Oh, this is brilliant. Product is good. This connects with me. And talk. The product creation gives you that advantage. Okay? Existing customers. See, you have to. It's like two eyes. You take care of the existing customers, work with them closely on their total cost of ownership, service, parts, genuine availability, oil, everything. On the other side, create the new segments. It varies. Okay? It's not that every country will require the same product. Sometimes you have to. Okay. India itself, somebody starts their breakfast with sweet, right? Yeah. I can tell you a typical example of color. Kerala wants only black color. Okay? Rajasthan wants red. Rajasthan wants only red. Only red. If I mix match. It's a problem. I have a problem. Why go to any country? I think India has got the best experience of which model, which color, which combination sells in which state. Brilliant. The same principle you have to use in international market, whether you go to. It is not Africa. It is Nigeria separate, Kenya separate, Uganda separate, Ethiopia separate. I can spend, I don't know how many hours on that. What is the difference, nuances between the customer usage? I always tell the people, put the customer at the center. Don't worry. Sometimes it makes you negative margin. Don't worry. The customer is happy, he will make it positive. Life after life, brand after brand, we have seen that, right? You tell them, Hey, I'm going to increase price. No problem with that. Absolutely no problem. Usually in an export market, there's a six year-seven year of experience. You have a nonlinear significant tailwind which comes in because people have gone through that one cycle. It's got resale. See, your point, I may not be able to say that five years-six years, but you- Whatever be the time frame. You have to be there. For example, if I put a dealership or a sub-dealership, people, customer should say, that TVS dealership. Yeah, go there. They will take care. That familiarity, that consistency, the same mechanic interacting, that makes a huge difference. What is that usually duration? That's why I said I don't want to come to a mathematical solution to that. Some countries take minimum two years, some countries three years, some countries you have to have that blind faith. The tipping point, what is it? It's really right. I was coming to that only. Is TVS on the tipping point now for a- Every month we are on a tipping point. Yeah. I'm not saying in a- You're seeing the numbers now. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We believe in Oh, I sense it. I thought maybe you will also endorse it. No, no. I'm a firm believer, even when Wuhan came, five years back, three years back, many people asked me, Gana, don't you think that you're making a wrong mistake of putting no pressure on your dealers? Look at your competition. They give eight-week stock, 10-week stocks. Why you people are insisting only four-week stock? To a large extent, they are right because my dealers are very, very smart. Okay? Because if they make extra money, they put in some other business. Again, if I use my consumer mind, when I go to a restaurant and I want crispy dosa. Yeah I want crispy vada. If somebody tells me yesterday's vada, sorry. They will keep today's vada, but morning vada, It's not hot. The sambar is not hot. Chutney, I don't know when you have made. If that is my behavior, ideally, I should be able to give zero kilometer to every customer. In fact, I am telling my team South, they should be able to get it in two days' time. Why they should keep stock? Put an order model. In the order model, we have to make sure that no retails are lost. You come, it's not there. That's not correct. You decide what is the color model combination, and ultimately the dealer owner has to make the. This was the concept thinking when we said we are not going to give credit. When we gave credit, you know what happened? Our company fellows are also chaalu fellows. Okay? If somebody wants, if somebody puts INR 2 crore, we put wanted and unwanted in the same truck and send it. Because he, number is most important. For the warehouse guy, his managing point, number achievement. Then the dealer will call and say, No, no, no. You send me this and that. This will never move, all that. Overall perspective, some dealers are also chaalu. They don't keep the stock. Okay? They want only... Not only selling, cus- Raider only they want. They want only this. That's also there. I always tell my team, I fight with you fight with me, and argue on that. Negative into negative, I don't know. Mathematics, it is positive. Business, it is not positive. Life also, it is not positive. Negative into negative is big negative. Correct? The moment we came out of this credit, he was very happy. Brought a lot of discipline. Okay. It brought lots and lots of discipline. Okay? Dealers have to plan. Dealers have to plan for the next three months retail. For example, I'm telling them, I'm not going to allow you to keep more than 30 days stock. If season is going to be, you better put a prognosis what models you want. And every week you please interact with the people. Okay? The moment you cut down that, please look at the supply chain effect. The whip effect, you know. What I have seen is my Tier 2 will have maximum stock. This is not theory. I'm a practitioner. I never knew that Vahan is not going to come. Now, Vahan has come. Now, all of you know daily what is happening, correct? I don't think anybody is now looking at billing data, correct? Vahan share gain is there or not? I love it. Ultimately, customer retail is the only thing which is important. It is not how much you bill to the dealer. Right? That is not sustainable model. Very happy. Same principle we use in the international market also. You say, This is my prognosis. This is the way I want to run the business in terms of customer. These are the color models I am going to do. Fine. We will plan and we will support. Our role is to create what the Jupiter customer wants next, what the NTORQ customer wants next, what Apache wants next. Okay? What kind of new introduction like Ronin we can look at. What opportunities we can seize from the market. Patiently stay. Okay? Today, test cricket is not there. Okay? The most important thing we learn from test cricket is you have fast bowlers, you have some weather conditions, but you stay calm. You preserve your wicket. You start hitting, right? This element of patience is something you have to cultivate, bring it to the minds of the people. Stay calm. That's exactly what we have done in Indonesia. That's exactly what we are doing in EV. EV is a new technology, I completely agree. Company need to assume that, okay, things will change by 100% 2030. Is it going to really happen? I don't know. Mm-hmm. It is with the customer. Are you skeptical of that? I'm not skeptical. I look at directions. Mm-hmm. Okay? I'm yet to see somebody putting a PowerPoint presentation and this is my plan and I surpass the plan. That will be multiple success factors. If your trajectory is right, you are moving in the right direction, you know? Fine. You will reach there. Sir, you made an interesting point that you're always focused on what the Jupiter customer wants next or an NTORQ customer wants next. Eventually everybody would. You know, actually your customers would want to upgrade to a four-wheeler. That is a structural issue maybe that some people are now focused on maybe in the two-wheeler industry with the higher penetration now in the domestic market. How do you think this whole dynamic plays out over the next five years, 10 years? 10 years back, I don't know, when was Nano launched? 2003. Oh, so much more, much more. One of the biggest question was, Nano customers are going to move from- Two-wheelers. Two-wheelers. My prediction was Nano success, two-wheeler will go up. Even now I'm telling you, more cars we sell, we will sell more two-wheelers. Every car family has got one or two two-wheelers. They use it differently. Stay with the customer. It's not a great theory I'm talking. When I at my level, I spend time with day in the lives of customers. I go there, I get a pre-appointment with them. From breakfast, I stay with them. What all things they look at, what all things they do. With zero pressure saying that I'm coming from a two-wheeler company. I'm a director and CEO, I know everything. I don't know anything. I keep some young people also who just doesn't know about two-wheeler. Keep observing them. They have breakfast, then they use the car, then somebody in their family uses the two-wheeler. Ask them, Why do you want a two-wheeler? Why do you want a car? What purpose? They very clearly articulate what is the purpose of a car, what is the purpose of a two-wheeler. If there are two two-wheelers, they have a purpose. Because when we spend our own money, we may not calculate the way you calculate, return on investment, but we are very prudent that something has to be utilized fully. Certain purposes I use it, certain purposes I use certain modes. The more cars India sells, more two-wheelers India sells. I have a few questions on EV. Now, this whole EV game is based on the subsidy by the government. If I'm right or wrong, maybe you can say so. If the subsidy goes down or maybe some change in the subsidy happens, can this whole EV fizzle out? Or maybe we'll have a cost curve which EV will meet the ICE, this will go on its own. My analogy, again, I can start with exports. Yeah. What was the subsidy coming in exports? Mm-hmm. You remember the numbers? I should see 50. Yeah. How much is today? Zero. What has happened to exports? Zoomed. Ballooned. Same analogy. One good thing, all of us, whether it is software industry, whether it is two-wheeler industry, there is a learning curve. When we came up with our iQube, I think we started seven years back, iQube W. I think it was costly, it was expensive, it was negative margin, but I can tell you today it's positive margin. There is a learning curve. Okay. The learning curve comes through optimum design. Initially, people don't look at optimum design. Companies like ours, we look at customer zero issue. So my engineer will say over-durability, over-reliability, over-design, okay. Because honestly, you don't know. So you err on. If something on the customer side, we never compromise. I was sharing him. Even if I make huge losses, I don't care about that. Customer should smile. If the customer smile is not there is no future for anybody. For anybody. Once customer smiles, then you look at next version. Look at what all things I can optimize without compromising the customer requirements. You partner with some of the technology partners, and there are intelligent people globally. Okay? You work with your suppliers. They are also very intelligent. There are some suppliers who are outstanding. Work with them and look at, okay, this can be optimized, weight can be optimized. Okay? Certain parameters can be optimized. Certain choice of subsystems can be optimized. That is level two. You get the cost down to one extent. Most importantly, you have to keep increasing your demand curve much, much higher. The demand is not growing, then anyone, you know, in a two-by-two or a three-by-three, people will look at high volume. I will put all the effort in technology, in cost, in supply chain. The most important thing is create your demand ahead of suppliers, always. In new technology also, existing technology also. You keep it, then there will be huge energy saying that, Yeah, let us work on that. Let us work on these subsystems. If there are six months of pain, be it. Use that as an investment for future. I'm pretty confident that when we look at the version 4 of iQube, it will be better, both from the point of view of the customer delight. Okay? I can give you one analogy that is not in EV. This is real. You can check in our showroom. We have Jupiter, because all of you will be familiar with Jupiter. We went with the basic version, okay? With our competition. We said, anyway, you know, you have to give some delight for marriage season, for New Year season. Okay? Somebody said, Why don't we give a limited edition? We gave the first limited edition. That was wherein we brought Amitabh Bachchan, you remember. First. Zyaada ka faayda. We found that the consumers love it. Actually, we estimated it wrong. Let me put it that way. During that season, everybody wanted only that. Priced higher, featured higher, better profitability for the company, better margin for the dealer. We said, No, there may not be enough people. If you look at today, the learning here was saying that consumers want premium and premium. Today, more than 50% of my Jupiter sales is coming from ZX version, Grande version, Classic version. Which are priced much higher, valued much higher. The moment you put the retail finance on that, people say that, Yeah, INR 100, INR 150 per month. It doesn't matter. I want only that. People have to first come for Jupiter into your showroom or into your online. If they don't even consider that, there's no business case. Once they consider that, then say, Oh, so many versions are there and so many features are there. Oh, wonderful. Today, the aspirational level, including rural area, what I find is consumers want something really fantastic. My moped customer, first he comes around RR 310. Right. Of course, he buys only moped. Okay? This is something fantastic. This, if you want to understand, go and stand in a dealership and closely look at it. He will come, he will go first to RR, three rounds, four rounds. He'll go to Jupiter 125, two rounds, then Raider. Then you ask him. No, no, I was looking for my son and daughter, you know? He doesn't want his son and daughter to buy moped. Just stand for two hours in the peak, this one, and keep observing one or two people. You don't look at this guy, that guy. Sir, I mean, just to step back, the industry in the last few years has seen a massive cost increase. A two-wheeler is of course a substitute for public transportation in a way. The category of customers that we are catering to is definitely impacted by the high cost of BS-VI, whatever you call it, [ADR], whatever has happened. Maybe 20%-40% increase that has taken place. Steel price hikes. That has made some affordability challenges for your pyramid of consumers, right? Are those affordability challenges done? I think in your conference call you did mention that you're expecting some double-digit growth rates to come in in terms of volume. Because the volume, the number has now significantly come down from where it was in 2019. I think your observations are very valid. Right. I'll first of all talk about that and I'll get back to what is my prognosis about the industry. Sure. Why do I say that? This is just a repetition. All of you know that BS III to BS IV, then GST. This one is 28%, this is 18%. For a moped, 28%, you decide whether it is the right decision. Okay? Insurance. Insurance. Third-party insurance. Cars, it is two years. This is five years. Okay? BS VI. All safety norms, including such as daylight, we have all headlights on. Nobody's questioning whether it is required or not. If India has to get into the global market, it is required. What has happened is. On top of it, these lockdowns. The last 36 months, we have really done a hop, step, and jump in terms of regulations, tightening the safety norms, tightening the insurance policies, which otherwise used to take 20 years. Good for the industry, very good for the industry, no issue. On top of it, you had almost 20 months of lockdown or fear of lockdown. Okay? Good news, I don't have Apache stock in any dealership. Visit the market. I don't have Raider stock in any of the dealerships. Any premium, no stock. All of you are rich, double rich. Sorry to use that. Okay? Richer than pre-COVID levels. Who has got maximum hurt? Lower. Lower. Your customer. The lower level. People talk about moped. I always ask them, moped customer is poor, yeah, -38% CAGR, agreed. Look at HF. Look at Platina and CT 100, -55%. I am better off because there is a relative kind of a position. Yeah. Moped customer, still something he is able to get and buy. There's a feeling that there is a structural decline in moped. You disagree clearly. I disagree. I disagree. Okay. Because I go by the usage. You still have milk in the morning. Yeah. You get vegetables in the morning. Sure. Sure. You see more people now, smaller groups delivering at home. Right. Who brings that? You know, daily we sell 1,000 mopeds. Can anyone of you believe it? Can it be cannibalized by electric? Good, sir. Hero also give electric mopeds too. Huh? See, Sir, we are talking about customer usage. Right. Tomorrow it can be ethanol, it can be electric, it can be CNG, it can be any fuel. Right. We are talking about usage. Okay? Tomorrow onwards, if all of us are going to say that I'm not going to have dal in the morning and vegetable or I'm not going to drink a coffee in the morning- Right ... the customer usages are going to happen to be different. I don't know how many people read the newspaper now. There are people who want to read A to Z, but there are many people who have gone to digital. Okay. I'm of the view that we have to track the customer usage, not the technology. Sure. Total cost of ownership. No. Yeah. Because our total cost of. That is the point, right? If EV, can it replace the cost of ownership of a- 100%, sir. Right. See, EV or any technology will replace. We moved from two-stroke to four-stroke. Right. Four-stroke, BS III, BS I, BS II to BS VI. Right. Electric start. Now electric start. I think technology requires deep investments. See, what is the strength of TVS? We believe in design and development. Right. No question. Right. Okay? If you believe in design and development, and if you are going to have the patience. Right focus on the customer. Right I think things will work out. Okay. Sir, one observation I had, I don't know how rudimentary it was, that now with your electric vehicle, you give it to your dealer. He has no servicing income in that. What is the incentive for him to sell where he will have one-time sale, no service income, where he makes a lot of money over a period of time on the service income? There can be two outcomes in this. One, that the Ola's of the world will have difficult times because you can subsidize your dealer with 50% of your portfolio which has got service income and someone else doesn't have a service income, so at least he has an incentive to sell and you will have a right to win or maybe there will be some zigzag in the market. How should I read this electric story, at least from the dealer point of view? See, there will be structural changes with respect to how the distribution is likely to happen. In EV or totally? In my opinion, totally. Totally. Because this pandemic has taught us quite a lot of new development from the new generation. Mm-hmm. Okay? I've seen in my house everything is online. Okay? My daughters want everything. This is their business partner. Okay? Right, wrong, I don't know. Buy, reject also the speed at which they buy, the same speed they reject. Okay? Is that going to be the consumer behavior of India going forward? That is what we need to study. Mm-hmm. It's not the distribution channel we have to study. Mm-hmm. This is going to be the behavior of the consumer. Everything is going to be online. I think that we have to. You know, ATMs, for example, or online transactions. Okay? I think the role of each one of us. There is a role for the product, sir. Okay? After the product, how the consumer behaviors are going to change. Okay? Is it going to change across India? Is it going to change only in certain age groups or age profiles? Is it going to be different between men and women? Is it going to be completely different in a semi-urban and an urban situation and a rural situation? This is something you have to constantly keep looking at it. A simple thing I'll tell you, we put in iQube as a responsible father and mother, because most of you are, will be having your children. Looking at the profile here, we put that you can also look at from your home. Youngster said, Why? Why? Why? Why should my people at home know? We put geofencing. Why? Why geofencing? We are also learning. Some people, very good, we want geofencing. We want this tracking. We want safety and security. Now we are looking at an app where you can authorize father, son, mother. You can authorize whether you need it or not. These nuances. You asked about the spare parts income. Many, many kind of opportunities are there. You can give upgrade. For example, my existing customer, I can give features. OTA, I can give, and I can charge. Software feature? Many things. That money goes to you, not to the. No, no, no. I thought about it. No, no. See what happens in anything, win-lose will not work, sir. If you want a partner, okay, you can't say, I take 100 and you take zero, it will not work. It can work, I take 100, even you take one or 98 and two with mutual understanding based on the RACI model, what you bring in, what I bring in. All these are kind of job. If it is going to be 100 zero, it will not last for more than one day, I promise you. Okay? Equally, the infrastructure is going to be different. When we started, we talked about certain fascia, front fascia, rear fascia, so many people. I'm of the view everybody will look at the TCO model. Okay? Everybody will look at subscription model. Okay? Everybody will look at, okay, what is the regular income I am going to come? Okay. If I'm, for example, let's say I'm going to deal with 200 EV customers. I'm a dealer. I'm an authorized service person. There has to be somebody service that. You cannot have zero service. In electric, anything mobile, it is not like a refrigerator or a fridge at home. Right. Whether it's a car, anything mobile, anything that is a mechanical device, you cannot have without wheels and chassis and all this, okay? Brake systems and things like that. There is wear and tear. Some adjustments will be there. Okay? There, definitely they have to. I call, somebody comes in. There has to be some kind of a remuneration for the specialty and things like that. You can decide whether 10 people will be there, 15 people will be there, or it will be on AMC basis. Some method will be there, sir. For the dealer also, which is your experience today also. I'll just complete that. Tomorrow, for example, iQube maximum is home charging today. You should know the power supply challenges and 15 amps and 5 amps and all that. It requires somebody to go and interface with the customer. If it's big apartment and also association, you have to talk to them. It's not as simple as we see. You know? Is insurance also flowing into the EV? I think everywhere these elements will work out appropriately. Please remember this principle of win, win.