Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Pondy Oxides and Chemicals Limited Q4 FY 2026 earnings conference call. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Sana Kapoor from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you. Thank you, Steve. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Pondy Oxides and Chemicals Limited's earnings call to discuss Q4 and FY 2026 financial results. Today, we are joined by Mr. Ashish Bansal, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. K. Kumaravel, Director of Finance and Company Secretary, Mr. R.S. Vaidyanathan, Executive Director, Mr. Vijay Balakrishnan, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Prateek Gupta, Assistant Vice President, Operations. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. May I now request Mr. Ashish Bansal to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Sana. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for POCL Q4 and FY 2026 earnings call. I hope you've had the opportunity to go through our financial disclosures available on the exchanges. I will walk you through the key strategic updates, operational progress, and financial performance, followed by a Q&A session. FY 2026 stands as one of the most remarkable years in POCL's journey, with the company delivering all-time high production and sales volumes, revenue, EBITDA, PAT, and profitability margins. This stellar performance reflects the combined strength of our growth strategy, execution excellence, and operational discipline building on this momentum. POCL has generated an outstanding five-year CAGR of 24% in revenue, 52% in EBITDA, and 67% in PAT, demonstrating a consistent track record of accelerating growth, expanding margins, and creating significant long-term value for all stakeholders. Before turning to the numbers, I would like to highlight the business developments and growth initiatives that have not only contributed to our strong performance in FY 2026, but are also laying the groundwork for POCL's continued expansion and value creation in the years ahead. One of the key highlights of FY 2026 was the significant progress made in expanding our capacity and strengthening our growth platform. During the year, POCL enhanced its lead recycling capacity at the TKE facility by 55%, increasing it from 132,000 metric tons per annum to 204,000 metric tons per annum. The expanded facility operated at approximately 65% during FY 2026 and is expected to steadily ramp up, reaching nearly 75% utilization in the coming quarters. We also successfully doubled our copper recycling capacity to 12,000 metric tons per annum in Q4 FY 2026, reinforcing our presence in the copper recycling segment. The facility is expected to progressively ramp up to 70% utilization during FY 2027. Further strengthening our growth platform, the board has approved the setting up of a 36,000 metric tons per annum copper cathode plant at our TKE facility in Tamil Nadu with an estimated investment of approximately INR 200 crores, funded purely through internal accruals. The project will be implemented in two phases of 18,000 metric tons per annum each, and phase I is targeted for commissioning by December 2026. This marks a significant step in expanding our non-ferrous recycling portfolio and enhancing value-added capabilities. The facility will deploy integrated pyrometallurgy and electrorefining technology to produce LME Grade A copper cathodes, strengthening our vertical integration capabilities. Upon commissioning, the project is expected to enhance the revenue and profitability through the value-added copper products, improve margins through a richer product mix, generate operational synergies across procurement, logistics, and sales, and create a scalable platform for future expansion and diversification. It will also support import substitution, reduce the carbon footprint through increases of recycled copper, and further reinforce POCL's commitment to sustainability, circular economy principles, and long-term value creation. Backing our growth strategy, POCL deployed approximately INR 49 crores towards capital expenditure in FY 2026. We remain committed to investing for future and expect to incur additional INR 180 crores in FY 2027 to support capacity augmentation in copper and downstream integration and other strategic growth initiatives. In line with its commitments to reward the shareholders, the board has recommended a final dividend of INR 5 per equity share, representing 100% of the face value for FY 2025-2026. Against this backdrop of strategic progress, our operational performance in FY 2026 remained exceptionally strong, with the company assuming record production and sales volumes of both lead and copper, reflecting the strength of our operating model, execution excellence, and growing market presence. The procurement mix from imports stood at approximately 73% for lead, 61% for plastic, and 98% for copper during the period. Our lead business delivered strong growth by enhancing profitability. Lead production and sales increased by 11%, each in FY 2026 to 104,481 metric tons and 107,927 metric tons respectively on a quarterly basis. Volumes moderated as we strategically focused on higher margin value-added products. As a result, EBITDA per ton of lead improved significantly by 39% to INR 18,462. In FY 2026, EBITDA 43% year-on-year to INR 19,739 during the quarter, reflecting the success of our value optimization synergy. FY 2026, production and sales volume of copper increased by seven times respectively, whereas EBITDA per ton stood strong at INR 39,896 per ton. Copper sale witnessed a significant increase in FY 2026, growing by nearly 11 times to INR 673 crore. Building on the operational momentum, POC delivered its strongest ever financial performance in FY 2026, underscoring our ability to drive sustainable growth. Revenue growth remained robust across both quarterly and annual periods. Revenue increased to INR 932 crore in Q4 FY 2026, registering a strong growth of 80% year-on-year and 20% quarter-on-quarter for FY 2026. Revenue stood at INR 2,939 crore, reflecting a 45% year-on-year increase driven by improved capacity utilization and higher production and sales volumes. Exports contributed 66% of total revenue during the year, highlighting our expanding global footprint and growing customer confidence. Sales mix between lead and copper verticals stood at 77% and 23% respectively. In FY 2026, additionally, value-added products accounted for 65% of lead segment revenue, reinforcing a strategic focus on increasing the contribution of value-added products to over 60% over the long term. EBITDA more than doubled on both quarterly and annual basis, reaching INR 61 crore in Q4 FY 2026 and INR 218 crore in FY 2026, reflecting the improved earnings profile of the business. EBITDA margin expanded by 212 basis points to 7.4% in FY 2026 compared to 5.3% in FY 2025. Profitability growth remains strong, with PAT more than doubling on both quarterly and annual basis. The PAT increased by 111% year-over-year to INR 38 crore in Q4 FY 2026, while FY 2026 PAT grew by 113% year-on-year to INR 139 crores, reflecting the improved profitability of the business. PAT margin expanded by 151 basis points to 4.7% in FY 2026 compared to 3.2% in FY 2025. Our consolidated performance mirrored the strong momentum witnessed in the standalone business. On a consolidated basis, revenue and EBITDA PAT grew by 24%, 102% and 127% year-over-year respectively. In FY 2026, the strong performance continued during the quarter with revenue, EBITDA, and PAT increasing by 78%, 124%, 126% year-over-year respectively, reflecting broad-based growth and improved profitability across the business. FY 2026 also witnessed notable improvement in our financial health indicators. Return on capital employed increased to 17%. Cash conversion days remain healthy at 53 days. Interest coverage improved to 20x from 8x in FY 2025, and net debt to equity stood at comfortable 0.17 times, highlighting the strength of our balance sheet and capital efficiency. In conclusion, POC remains firmly on track to achieve its Target 2030, aspiration guided by a clear and disciplined strategy focused on sustainable growth, operational excellence, and long-term value creation. We continue to expand our lead and copper capacity while strengthening our presence across adjacent non-ferrous recycling segments to deliver a 20% and 20% CAGR in revenue and profitability. Our growth is complemented by a strong focus on margin expansion, with targets maintaining EBITDA margins above 8% and return on capital employed above 20%. At the same time, we remain committed to enhancing operational efficiency through innovation, modernization, and increased value addition, with a goal of deriving over 60% of revenue from value-added products while significantly improving energy efficiency. Anchored by a clear strategic roadmap, a robust balance sheet, disciplined execution, a sizable land bank, support of government norms, proven leadership, and support from all stakeholders, POC is well-positioned to capitalize on future opportunities and drive long-term sustainable growth. That concludes my update. Thank you for your attention. We will now be happy to take your questions. Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Dheeraj Ram with 360 ONE Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Congratulations for great set of numbers, and thank you for taking up the question. Your traded goods has increased during the quarter. Can we expect this to continue, or what was the reason behind this? Dheeraj, thank you. Yes, we had some opportunity on trading in the last quarter, and we had taken up based on the opportunity that was available. I cannot specifically say that it will continue, but definitely there will be some trading which has always been there. I mean, as the opportunity comes in. Our focus is generally on manufacturing only, and that remains our commitment. Got it. Is this more related to copper, sir? Or should we correlate this to lead? This is more related to copper. Got it. sir, our lead volumes for the quarter has dipped slightly. However, we have commenced TKE 1 and TKE 2. Is this a short-term dip, or how do we take it for FY 2027? What is the volume growth for lead? This is only a short-term thing. It's not a decision. At the point in time when the supply chain was a little tight, we deliberately focused more on the value-added products. The customers also well accepted the change as they were able to get the regular products from other suppliers, as we are one of the prime suppliers for the value-added products. We were able to convert those into value-added products, giving us better margins over the quarter as well. Got it. Just last question, sir, is on the CapEx. What is your CapEx forecast for FY 2027 as you're doing INR 200 crore? Is there anything else? What is your CapEx for FY 2028? Can you give- Uh, current inventory days breakup for lead and copper? Yes. For the current year, our CapEx will be well within about approximately around INR 180 crores will be the CapEx, INR 180 crores-INR 200 crores for this financial year. The following financial year will be probably in the range of INR 50 crores-INR 60 crores, unless additional anything else is specifically added, which we'll keep you updated. Got it. Just a question on inventory days, sir. Current inventory days in lead and copper breakup, and then what is it going to be in FY 2027 and FY 2028? Currently, on overall this thing we stand at 53 days, technically it is well below 50 days. It was at that point in time because towards the end last week there was some delay in our shipment due to some vessel movement, and those paying payouts were delayed by a week. At that point in time, it showed a little higher, once you account for that, we are well below 50 days. As on the specific numbers, it is at 53 days. Guidance for going forward, sir? For lead, we are at about 45 days, and in copper we were earlier at about 70 days, and we have brought that also closer to 50 and below 50. We expect this to continue? We are strongly poised to bring overall below 45 days, as we had spoken earlier as well, and we will continue to do that. Got it. Thank you, sir. All the best for your future results. Thank you, Dheeraj. The next question comes from the line of Akhilesh with FK Global. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the lead realization. Just wanted to get your thoughts on lead premium, where we have kind of reported close to $700 per ton as premium. While if I look at our peers, they do somewhere around $300 per ton of premium. What are we doing differently which are fetching these obnoxiously high premium compared to our peers? $700 premium. Can you give me a reference to your calculation of the premium? So- How have you derived the $700 and $300 numbers? I've got the realization number. It is somewhere around INR 242,000 and [audio distortion] INR of 91. Yes somewhere around five. Okay. That means the basic cost. All right. Basically, the value-added products that we manufacture are specific alloys and all of that, which have blend of different other elements and metals. The prices of those specific alloys are higher than the basic mix of the regular pure lead or the basic antimony alloys or something of those sorts. No, I get that. Still, what kind of product lines we are into which are fetching these high premiums? If I look at our peers, like I mentioned that they are also into similar kind of product line and they are doing premiums of around $300 per ton. There are some specific niche alloys that we manufacture, which few of the other peers are not manufacturing, and those alloys are what fetches a high premium in alloys. Could you please give us a couple of examples of that? What would that be? These are very industry-specific alloys, which, I mean, on an open forum I would not like to give out the names of those specific alloys. These are specific to those customers, we are a one-point source for them to buy these alloys, and hence we demand and command those premiums. Got it. No worries. My second question would be on, could you please talk more about plastic and aluminum segments as well? How are we doing there? Are we EBITDA positive? If yes, then how much EBITDA per ton are we kind of making in those two segments? On the plastic as we updated during our last con call, we are moving the unit and now the unit has been moved to the new location and it's been set up. The production started around in the new location in March. As of now, we are PAT positive, not only EBITDA positive. Currently, we are doing PAT positive. We are very, very confident that this year you will see, on the plastic segment as well, PAT positive numbers. Okay. In terms of specific realization per metric ton realization, we'll update you over our next quarter. Okay, sure. The question came because when I add lead EBITDA and copper EBITDA per ton, what you have given in your PPT, that comes more than what EBITDA you have reported. Just wanted to get clarity, the EBITDA per ton, what you report includes other income also, or how is it? This year plastic was marginally negative, and that is why it is different. Now in the coming quarters, it will be positive. Okay. Aluminum, are we doing anything there? As of now, not much on aluminum. We'll probably look into that when we feel the time is right. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sagar Shah with Spark PWM. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. First of all, our heartiest congratulations to the entire team of Pondy Oxides for delivering such numbers, actually. Sir, my first question was related to the CapEx guidance. The CapEx guidance that you just alluded was around INR 50-INR 60 crores for FY 2028. FY 2027, we have already disclosed on the investor presentation. Still INR 50-INR 60 crores of CapEx. Is this just for maintenance CapEx, or does it include the CapEx for Mundra plant as well? Basically, in this year's CapEx what we have guided, this is in the phase I, and also it includes our other internal smaller CapEx and some balancing equipments and so on. The phase II of the copper will require that INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores of CapEx. That means in FY 2027, we go live for only 18,000 tons of incremental copper capacity, right? Yeah. By December we'll go live for incremental 18,000. After that, following six months, we'll go live for the next 18,000. Six to seven months, yeah. Okay. Now my second question, sir, was related to the copper itself. You actually disclosed on the investor presentation that we are looking for the forward integration of copper. You even alluded on the presentation that you will be going for the copper busbars from the copper wires. Now can you actually highlight something that what is the exact product profile that you are looking to clock? And secondly, is this different from the traditional copper volumes that we are actually already doing? Naturally, your EBITDA pattern will also increase if you are going for forward integration. Can you highlight on that point, sir? Sagar, we have not spoken anything on busbars or any other wires or something, which I'm not sure where the data you derived from. Definitely, yes, the Copper Cathode project by itself is a forward integration from what we are doing currently as a recycling. Yes, from the point where you're doing recycling now, when we reach our completion of this copper a node and cathode project, the margins per ton will significantly increase. Once this Copper Cathode is done, we will look into further products of forward integration. Okay. At least for copper cathode, we can assume the same margins that we are drawing as of now, basically. No. It will be at an elevated level. As of now, what we can see, we are looking at about INR 60,000-INR 70,000 per ton on the copper cathode versus INR 35,000-INR 40,000 what we are currently doing. The precise numbers, once the plant production is up, we will be able to give you more precise on the numbers. Okay, fine, sir. My last question was related to our working capital, actually. In this year, in spite of such a robust performance actually, we had a negative operating cash flow, and that is just because of the heavy trade receivables that are sitting on the balance sheet of around INR 265 crores. Can you split that between the raw materials and the finished goods of the trade receivables? One more thing, that basically how are we planning to, in FY 2027 or FY 2028, to bring in the operating cash flow to be at least positive in line with the pipe growth, actually? That at least we can have some better visibility, so that in the future also we are not in a position to take incremental debt actually to cover up those receivables. Let me just explain to you. What you see as a negative cash flow is technically not a negative cash flow because this happened due to movement of some vessel or export consignment getting delayed because of the movement of time on some vessel departures. That's when the receivables on the last week of March got moved to first week of April. Technically around April 5th, we received close to about INR 120 - INR 130 crores in payment within that immediate next week. That is what has impacted the cash. You have to look at it as a point-in-time figure. When this comes in on time because of the external factors, the vessel not moving, these numbers would have been extremely positive. Okay. In fact, inventory is similar level. Only on receivable, as we explained, the month end March end sales realization is delayed by a day or two. That's all. Yeah, right, sir. Can you split between RM and finished goods in the INR 265 crores worth of trade receivables? There is no RM in finished goods trade receivables, sir. There is only the finished goods worth INR 160. It is purely finished goods aspect of it. If you see the inventory, it is only INR 36 crores increase, which is more or less with our increase of revenue, that increase seems okay. As Ashish said, only on the trade receivables front, there is a huge increase. That is a point in time figure which has impacted our operating cash flows. Okay, fine. Thank you. Thank you so much, and all the best, sir. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shweta Dikshit with Systematix. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations to everyone on a good set of numbers. My couple of questions. Firstly, on the copper side, we commissioned 6,000 tons of additional copper in 4Q. We still surpassed 3,000 tons volume mark within 4Q. What kind of capacity utilization are we now looking at on the entire 12,000 tons for FY 2027? Second question, once we get into the downstream or copper cathode anode capacity of 18,000 tons in the next phase also, what would be the difference in capacity utilization of that segment versus the current recycled copper capacity? Whether we'll continue to sell the recycled copper externally or use it to feed our TKE copper plant? In terms of recycled copper, this in the current financial year, we are looking at something around 8,000-9,000 tons of recycled copper. In the 18,000 tons capacity in the first phase, we'll have the production for the last quarter that will help. I'll say approximately anywhere between, depending on the material raw material required, about 50%-60% from this recycled copper will directly go into the anode process. There will be other raw material also that will be purchased, which will be blended. That will be the product mix in terms of copper. FY 2027 volumes would be 8,000-9,000 tons of sales volume on a capacity of 12,000 tons. Is that correct? From the existing recycled copper. Yeah. Including the copper cathode, the volumes on copper will be approximately 12,000 tons. Okay. In FY 2027. Yes. Sir, another thing was, if you're looking at around INR 180 crores of CapEx for this year, how are we likely to fund it basis and just speaking of the, because still the operating cash flow is negative and we've already a little constrained on the cash side. How are we trying to fund this INR 180 crores of CapEx? In his opening remarks, Mr. Ashish clearly informed this is through the internal accruals we are going to fund this project. We are not going to take term loans, anyhow, we have sufficient net worth to handle this. It is a point of time figure for the negative cash flow. We have sufficient profit earned available in the system to take care of this. For the numbers part, approximately, you see the overall reserves in surplus plus equity is about INR 800 crores. Whereas if you see our borrowings is about INR 150 crores. Now the balance is, that too is short-term. We don't have any long-term debt in our books, we are very confident that we'll be able to meet this expenditure through our internal accruals, and we have sufficient liquidity to meet it. Lastly, on lead volumes, we saw a significant decline this quarter. I understand that the focus was on value-added products, the new lead plant primarily focuses on pure lead and the existing ones focus on value-added. Are we likely to see this runway continue going forward when the focus is on value-added products? What kind of utilization can we expect on 204,000 tonnes of capacity for FY 2027? Definitely, we would love to focus and will focus on value-added products more, but the volumes will not decline in terms of going forward. We are looking at a utilization of approximately close to 70% on the new plant capacity, 70%-75%. There'll be a good mix. Okay. That's it from my side. I'll join back with you for more questions later. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Khush Gosran i with Geojit Asset Management. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Just wanted to understand this quarter copper pricing has been very volatile, and we have seen some impact on the reported margins as well. Could you highlight how do you handle this, what has happened on the copper side, and how are the contract structure? That will be my first question. Yeah. You are definitely right. Copper price has been extremely volatile, and not only this quarter, through the last whole year they have been pretty volatile. As we have explained in our earlier calls as well, we maintain a completely hedged position on the copper side and as well as our forex as well. Which gives us a proper clear indication what margins we are able to derive out of the product. Further, also, if this quarter the margins have been better than the previous quarter, one of the good reasons being there was some good demand in the domestic market on the copper, which fetched us little higher value and valuation for our recycled copper and that is what gave us little better margins on the copper side in this quarter. Sure, sir. When you say the aspiration of 8% EBITDA margin, currently copper is at the lower level of margins when compared to lead. Is there room for increment in the copper margins and by how much it can contribute? That would be helpful. Yes. margins are not coming as to why. Yeah. With our current capacity, lead and this thing is blended, it will be low. When you look at our forward integration in terms of our anode and cathode plants and our further products that we are planning, the margin will definitely go up as I spoke to the earlier calls, I mean, on the earlier questions as well. You'll have a blended margin for 8%. Got it, sir. For FY 2027 and FY 2028, what are the plans for lead in terms of capacity addition and utilization levels? We are looking at a utilization of approximately close to 70% on the lead side. FY 2028, we would need to add more capacity in lead. Are you planning anything as of now? As of now, in these locations, we are not planning. We will try to move towards close to 80%-90% utilization by FY 2028. Got it, sir. Last question, where are we on the EPR norms in terms of implementation and the taking the credits, et cetera? On the EPR front, the total registrations are starting from June 1st. As of now, government has restructured, and they are looking at the registrations and people to start uploading the data. Maybe in three to six months' time, they might then further come out with further framework for the same. Got it, sir. Thank you. That's it from my end. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Saransh Gupta with Svan Investments. Please go ahead. Am I audible, ir? Yes, sir. Yeah. Thank you so much for the opportunity and congratulations on a really good set of numbers, sir. Sir, most of my questions have been answered. I just wanted to understand, we expanded our copper capacity from 6,000 to 12,000, and in December 2026, we'll be coming up with 18,000 of copper cathode, which is a value-added product for us. I just wanted to understand how the mix works. How much of the copper recycling will be used for captive consumption in copper cathode and how much will we be purchasing from the open market? As I just spoke, basically from our own recycling, about 50%- 60% we will be using. Basically from our recycling, the lower grades will be used for the copper anode, copper cathode production. The higher grade recycled material will be directly moved for sales. Let's assume about 50%- 60% of our internal recycling will go into the copper cathode and balance into the direct market for sales. Understood, sir. How will this mix change when we move from 18,000 to 36,000 of copper cathode? It should remain similar because also we have increased our raw material in terms of our recycling. On the recycling part also, we increased from 6,000 to 12,000. As the 18,000 comes up, we will also be pushing up the recycling part also close to 18,000 or so. We'll try and maintain our mix of 50%-60% from internal generation. Okay. sir, it will be a fair assumption that from 12,000 of copper recycling, we'll be going to 18,000 by next year. Yes. 24-56. Definitely. Sir, just one last question. We have planned for a CapEx of INR 50 crores-INR 60 crores in FY 2028 if nothing new attractive comes up for us. We can assume a debt repayment in FY 2028? We don't have any debt on books. Yeah, we don't have any. What we have on our books is just for the working capital part of it. We are a debt-free company in terms of any long-term debts or any of that. We have not taken any debt on books. Going ahead, that will also reduce with our inventory days coming down to 45-50. Yes. We are not looking at taking any debt as of now, even for our further expansion or any of these CapEx that we've announced for. Sure, sir. Any plans on Mundra expansion, sir? What are you looking there to expand it? Yes. As indicated, in FY 2027, we'll be starting up our Mundra project as well. Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best, sir. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Naman Parmar with Niveshaay Investment. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Firstly, I wanted to understand on the copper sourcing side. Any difficulty you are facing after the big war between the Middle Eastern countries? Any issue on the copper sourcing you are seeing right now or is it normally? Right now the volumes that we are doing, we are not facing much of issues on the sourcing side. Definitely there have been, in fact, the sailing days have increased in terms of when the vessel arrives versus by 10-15 days. Again, our payments are on CIF basis, and when the vessels arrive, that does not impact on our payment cycle as well. We are also further expanding. We have expanded our procurement towards Southeast Asia as well, and looking aggressively into the domestic markets as well for procurement of copper. Okay, understood. Secondly, only after the full forward integration, how much EBITDA per ton you will be expecting from the copper? Like currently you have INR 45,000 in the Q4. As of now, with the math that has worked out on a very conservative basis, I can say INR 60,000- INR 70,000 per ton on the cathode side. Oh, INR 60,000-INR 70,000. Definitely it would be better because once we have the actual production in hand, we'll be able to drive in efficiencies and definitely have a better margin. I would like to commit on the lower side. Right. Understood. On the gross margin side, if you see in the current quarter, there was the impact. It was mainly due to the increase in the contribution of the copper only or it was anything else? If you see on the lead side, it is in excess of 8%. The copper is approximately around 3.5%- 4% levels. The blended is what is showing at 6.4%. Okay. In this quarter, the copper contribution was almost close to 40%. Mm-hmm. Understood. Lastly, on the other expense side. What was happening in the current quarter, it has fallen down year-over-year and Y1 also. On the other expense side, in the last quarter it showed approximately that INR 700 crores of the mark to market was a part of it. This quarter that has been utilized and reversed, so that part you don't see. Okay, understood. Thank you so much for answering. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Samay Shah with [audio distortion]. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible? Yes, please. Yeah. Congratulations on a good set of numbers, sir. My question actually was regarding the other expenses only which you explained to the last participant. We were on a run rate of INR 25 crore- INR 30 crore per quarter, which was majorly when our new capacities came online in the past two quarters, and then it dipped to around INR 18 crore in this Q4. I just wanted to understand a little bit more on this. As we said, the first part is about the MTM, which got reversed in the current quarter. Apart from that, if you see the expenses when it comes to lead volumes, as we said, the TKE utilization above the 65% level. We have seen very good efficiencies in each and every line item, TNL like power and fuel. We have reduced environmental expenses, factory expenses. Everything has been reduced. In the coming years to come, the other expenses within the range of, with increased volume as well, it will be in the range of INR 20 crores-INR 25 crores moving forward. All right. That was my only question. Good luck for the future quarters. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question comes from the line of Shivam Dave with MIV Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I had one question was on the trade receivables. Now, given that you've had INR 120 crores that has flown in on April 5th. Should we expect that your incremental capacity expansion that you're doing in copper cathode will largely be taken care of from that money that you've gotten, right? I didn't get your question. Which money that we have gotten? Are you referring to the trade payment? Yeah, correct. The trade receivable that was a point-in-time effect that you got after 31st March. Trade receivable is for the product sold for which we were to get our payment. Correct. You said that on April 5th you've got INR 120 crores. That was for the cash flow part. What I said, if we had received that in time, if the delay was not there in terms of vessel movement, we would have received that before March 31st and the cash flow would have been positive. Okay. What he said was. Yes, please go on. No, what you said was right. Had we received that money, probably we should have a reduced borrowing. Otherwise, we should have been invested in the short-term instruments. That is what would have happened. Our debt would have drastically come down had we received the money. Got it. The second question was on your overall lead volumes for this quarter. Was there any difficulty in procuring scrap because of the war, or was this a conscious decision to produce lesser and improve your EBITDA per ton? The war situation was more towards the latter half of the quarter. None of that impact was it. It was a conscious decision to sell these specific products in terms of the margin profile. Okay. No, because I think you guided for 120,000 tons of lead for the full year, and I think you've done. We guided for 110,000. 10,000. Okay. Yeah. We've achieved almost close to that. Okay. Congratulations on the good set. I think your corporate expansion has been very good. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Kaushal Sharma with Equinox Capital Ventures. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Very good evening. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Yes. My question is on your most of your industries, I'd like gradual increase in the capacity, given the opportunity of lithium ion is taking, and most of your peers are also going over there. What is your take on lithium ion recycling going ahead? Do we have any plan on taking any capacity only in that segment? Sir, what kind of effect of this war that has escalated and two months is going to pass, so what kind of impact that could happen in this first half of our business in resourcing and all? All over the logistic costs has been increased, and there is very difficult times going on. Yeah. Hi, this is Vaidyanathan here. As regards the lithium is concerned, we have been constantly keeping an eye on what is happening in the lithium ion industry. We have been consulting a lot of technical experts on this, and we are in touch with people. We are busy understanding the feedstock availability and the chemistry that is possible to recycle and the kind of informal sector dominance in the market, and also the collection infrastructure and all that. We feel that whatever the batteries, the EV vehicles that have been sold between 2018 to 2022, we feel the battery stock might hit the market by 2028. We thought, probably, since we are focused on various other things, we thought we'll take this up later. We are on it, kind of. Yeah. What is your take on war escalating? There has been a little delay in the overall receiving of material, like I said earlier as well when I was speaking with Shweta. There has been 10, 15 days, 20 days delay in receiving of the raw material. That is actually a major impact. On our procurement side, most of our contracts are on CIF basis. Our sales in terms of exports, apart from domestic sales, apart from that happening into the Southeast Asian market, where the freight incremental on the outward freights is very marginal when you boil it down to per ton basis, maybe about $2 or so per ton on average ton basis. That part of it has not impacted. Definitely yes, in terms of the shipping, the shipping schedules move a little back and forth, so that planning has to be a little more precise and backup plans need to be on that. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Abhishek Mehra with DAM Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. I have joined a bit late, so I don't know whether this question was covered or not. Just wanted to have an understanding of scrap formula. Actually, one of your peers highlighted a drop in scrap formula for copper segment, which was highlighted as an industry phenomenon. Could you please just highlight or give some brief on what this scrap formula is for copper as well as lead, and how does it move? Are you referring to the purchase side? Are you referring to the sale side drop in formula? Purchase and sale both. I mean, how does the purchase move and how does the sale move, sir? Is there any different reason why the margins get impacted? Our margins are not impacted. In fact, our margins have improved. I'm not too sure what any other peer has spoken about drop in formula. Are they referring to both sales and purchase? If it's a sales and purchase, it's a whole delta that has moved, so that should not have impacted. As of what I'm seeing, generally, if purchase price goes down, also the sale price also marginally goes down and vice versa. It's only a follow-through impact. If the raw material gets little expensive, the sale part also starts getting expensive. It all depends on the demand and supply at that point in time, and how you manage your books hedged. If you're managing your books well hedged, and if you create a delta in terms of your purchase and sale margin, your margins generally should not get impacted. The impact can be from the volatility on the metal side or from the FX side. If it hedges down both ways, you'll be able to protect your margin. Oh, okay. Even when there is high volatility in copper segment, there should be no impact on the margins with respect to formula. Irrespective of the hedging, you are hedging your position. Formula is based on your metal content, quality of scrap that you're buying, or could reflect to some other terms of your deal. Generally, that is how it is done. In case if I'm buying something on a X price and hoping that the market will go up and does not go up and come down or vice versa, that becomes a speculative trade, which we do not do. I'm not sure what is being referred to as in terms of formula drop or any of those sales. Okay, sir. Okay. Great, sir. That was it, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ayush Jha with Sagun Capital. Please go ahead. Ayush, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. There's no response. We'll move on to the next question. It's from the line of Sachin Mittal with CONCEPT Investwell. Please go ahead. Am I audible? Yes. My first question is, if we see any further increase in the competition in span of three to five years, will we see a different margins and volumes for POCL? You see another three or five? I lost you, ma'am. Okay. I'll repeat my question. Yes. If I see the competition coming up in next two years, will I see different margins and volumes for Pondy Oxides? Ma'am, as we transition through years going forward, definitely more players would come into the industry like they have come in the last one or two decades. We need to also remember one critical part that with the energy transition and the various infrastructure activities that are happening across the country and the push on copper consumption is poised to almost go 3x in the next three to four years from almost close to 1.2 million tons, to about 3.5 million tons. Also if the demand is surpassing your consumption and you do not have that in manufacturing, the margin profiles, as long as your products are right and you are able to place them in the right market, right customers and stay well covered in terms of your both sides, hedges and all of those, you should be able to protect your margins. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Devansh with Edelweiss. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible, sir? Yes, you are audible. Sir, I just wanted to check, you've already clarified about the 40%. We are in this quarter at around 40% utilization of our blended 204,000 capacity. For Q1, has the utilization moved up already? Sir, I think you misunderstood the statement. The 40 and 60 mix was told that the net sales and copper sales mix for the quarter was 60 and 40 in the overall 100% sales mix, not about the capacity utilization. No, sir. What I'm talking about is that if you take a INR 2 lakh 4,000 capacity, blended, like INR 2 lakh 4,000 total capacity. For a quarter it's about 51,000 and our production is around 20,700 in this quarter. I'm just calculating based on that we've done around a 40% capacity utilization. Is that correct? Well, last quarter if you see, we have to take a blended capacity. Even phase II, first month, January we have started. It was under trials and effectively that phase II capacity was fully utilized this term. Overall if you see INR 204,000 on a blended basis for full year it is. For this year only we have to count. For last quarter it is approximately nine. In TKE alone it should be taken as 15,000 as the capacity approximately for one quarter. Okay. On that basis, TKE, yes, effectively we utilized. For full year, the blended capacity is what we have to take is about 175,000 metric ton for full year. Approximately. Approximately. Got it, sir. In Q1, have we seen an improvement already? Sir, Q1 is a forward-looking statement. There is always growth is there in the current quarter. That's what we can say. Beyond that, it's not correct on our part to reveal the numbers. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Utkarsh Somaiya with I-Quantum Solutions. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to confirm, you said that in FY 2027, your lead utilization will be 70%, which is volume of INR 140,000, and copper will be 12,000? Yes. That is what we are targeting and looking at. For the FY 2028, can you tell me what could be the similar number approx? Year-over-year on the lead volumes, we are looking at about close to 15% growth in volumes. Accordingly we will be taking up at that point in time. Copper? Copper. Sorry. What about copper? Towards the end of FY 2028, we should be able to do a volume of 36,000 tons. In FY 2028 we can look at anywhere between 24,000-29,000 tons of copper. 2024 to 2028. 12,000 tons in FY 2027 and 24,000 minimum in FY 2028. Is that correct? Yes. On a conservative basis, yes. Yes. sir, one more question. Your EBITDA per ton for lead, can we assume you can do INR 18,500 in FY 2027 and for copper INR 45,000, or using these numbers will be better next year? In lead, we give you a margin guidance of INR 17,000-INR 19,000 as we've been doing. On a conservative basis for copper on the recycling part, anywhere between INR 35,000-INR 40,000, trying to maintain on the upper bank. Once the cathode part comes in. Right now with our numbers, we are looking at a margin of INR 60,000-INR 70,000 again being on the upper bank on a conservative level. We can achieve INR 60,000 for the whole year in FY 2028 in copper? No. I specifically mentioned for the cathode part of it. Can you give me a blended number if possible? For FY 2028 you're asking? Yes, FY 2028 we can achieve. INR 60,000 blended number in FY 2028, right, for copper? Yes. On a volume of 24,000. Yes. Same INR 17,000-INR 19,000? As of now, yes. For INR 17,000, INR 19,000 for lead. If there would be any product mix or something, and if we can achieve higher through our value-added products, we'll be targeting to do that. Sir, the delta in copper from FY 2027 to FY 2028 is going to be humongous because your volumes are doubling and your EBITDA per ton is going from INR 40,000 to INR 60,000. Yes sir, that's right. Amazing. Good luck and thank you so much. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Rishab with Binomo Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah. Thank you for this, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, one specific question in terms of the Q4 numbers. We have a purchase of stock in trade and traded goods of about INR 122 crore in the fourth quarter of March 2026. If you could explain in terms of why there is a purchase of stock in trade and did this translate to a superior profitability in the particular quarter key numbers? I'm not sure if you joined in the earlier part of the call. The same question was asked by Mr. Dheeraj, and I'll just quickly recap that. This was an opportunity that was available in the market for us and with good margins, so we were able to take it up and we did the trade. Right. Thank you so much for explaining again, and all the very best. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Gopinath Chenna, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. I just would like to congratulate the POCL management for a great set of numbers. I've been following the conference for the last two years and it's really amazing that whatever you are promising and it's getting delivered. This is actually I would like to congratulate, Sir. I have a couple of questions. The first question- We are unable to audibly understand. Could you be a little louder and a little slow? Is it better now? Yes. Yeah. What I was saying is, I've been attending the con calls of POCL for the last two years, and each and every con call, whatever you have promised and it's being getting delivered. It's actually that is a great and I have seen only with a few companies. Since I'm an individual investor, I used to attend the different calls, but only few where I can see what I promised you gets delivered. Is it clear, sir? Thank you, sir. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I have a couple of questions, maybe two or three questions. The first question is with respect to this procurement and the sales. Is there any impact because of the Middle East conflict? Basically, like I said earlier, the impact is a little bit on the time delay in terms of receiving the raw materials, and that is what is impacted majorly for us. That again, in terms of our capital or something, since we have everything on a CIF basis contract, so there's not much of a pass-through. Accordingly, little bit on the timing part and all of those, we need to plan little more in advance. Accordingly, we have also shifted a lot of our procurement to different regions by trying to avoid the Middle Eastern part of it. Okay. That's clear. Also, since it's in India, right? Especially last couple of weeks, we've been seeing the increase in the petrol and diesel prices. Does it have any impact on our margins going further? Correct. Our consumption is, in terms of we don't use petrol and diesel, but we use oils and other gases. There is a marginal impact in terms of, there's a quota and there's a marginal impact in terms of the pricing. I think that should not be for too long, and it will be a pass-through as we go to our forward months. Okay. One last question. If you see in the last Q3, if I'm not wrong, your lead was around 8% of margin. If you see in the last quarter, that is Q4, it's reduced to 6.5%. Is there any reason? I would again repeat and highlight that the sales mix is different. If you look at the lead part of it, lead is in excess of 8% still even for the Q3 part of it. The copper sales, since copper sales are accounting for about 40%, where the profit, I mean the margin profiles are in the range of 3.5%-4%. That is why you look at a blended margin of 6.4%. All the numbers have been maintained in terms of lead and copper individually. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Meet, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible? Yes, sir. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question was like, what led to the sharp spike in the other non-current assets and in the other current assets in our balance sheet? The non-current assets is mainly GST receivable from the government of India. Okay. Mainly that thing, sir. See, if you see the major, this is due to fixes with additions that has happened during this year. In terms of current assets, this is about trade receivables, which is a big pie in the overall current assets. Apart from that, in other current assets, we have about GST receivables and supplier advance for that increase. If you see the inventories, it is more or less with the volumes, with the revenue, it is more or less in line with the revenue numbers. The major amount is attributed to trade receivables. Okay. Sir, my second question was, in our copper business, our sales volume has increased across 9x for the current year. Why is the EBITDA per ton has reduced from FY 2025? FY 2025 was the starting year. The volumes were very low. At that point in time, only very specific amounts were bought, purchased, and processed and sold. Technically, taking that as a base number for a larger volume would not be the right yardstick. From the first quarter, we've always given a guidance of about approximately in the range of 25,000- 40,000 per ton for copper, and that has been achieved. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Shweta Dikshit with Systematix. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity again. Just a clarification, the copper volumes for the quarter include trading volumes as well? In terms of sales, yes. On a blended basis, if you've done INR 45,000 per ton EBITDA, then this is a blended EBITDA per ton for both trading volumes as well as direct manufactured products on a sales volume, right? Like I told [audio distortion], the reason we took up the trade was because it was a lucrative trade, and that's why we took it up. The margin was on the higher side for a trade, and that is why it was taken up by us. Generally, the trading margins are on the lower side, but since we got a higher margin trade opportunity, we took it up. Okay, understood. Lastly, just a clarification on what's the lead volume growth you've guided for FY 2027, FY 2028? We are looking at a growth of about 15% odd. In FY 2027. From INR 100,000, we're looking at 115,000 tons for FY 2027. We are looking at from INR 1.10 lakh. Somewhere around INR 1.25 lakh, INR 1.30 lakh range level we are looking at. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Jigar Jani wit PCG Research. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question, congratulations to the entire team for delivering such stellar results in such tough environment. Just two clarifications from my side. One, you just said that there is a 70% utilization on the INR 200,000 volume of lead. That comes to about INR 1.4 lakh. What we should take? Should we take a 30% kind of growth on a conservative basis on INR 100,000 tons like we have done in last year? 70% was specifically for the newly commissioned units. In terms of overall, earlier also in few calls we've explained the 204,000 includes your validated product capacities and various chemical processing, different shades of certain equipments can be used only for certain products. If those sales are not happening, that capacity is slightly vacant. The 70% what we spoke was more specifically for the TKE plant. In terms of volume, like I just spoke, we're looking at somewhere around 125,000, 130,000 tons of volume for this year. If we are able to push it up, we will try to reach slightly higher, but as of now, the guidance that we can look at is about 125,000 to 130,000. Okay. Sir, this still is a very large volume jump. Lead structurally doesn't grow that high. Have we got any some new customers getting added next year, which is driving this 25%-30% kind of lead volume growth? Yes, sir. We have added some new products as well and customers as well. Okay, sir. Lastly, on copper, when you add this 18,000 copper cathode capacity, it is not fully backward integrated, right? With recycling. 12,000 will be the recycling cap- Yeah. 12,000 is the recycling capacity and 18,000 will be, and like I said, we will debottleneck that and we will scale that up as well to 18,000. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Thank you everyone for joining us today and for your continued interest in POCL. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team at Go India Advisors, and we appreciate your participation and continued support. Thank you, and have a great day. Thank you. On behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.