Ladies and gentlemen, good day, welcome to AGS Transact Technologies Ltd Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ravi Goyal from AGS Transact Technologies Ltd. Thank you, over to you, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. A very warm welcome to each one of you, and thank you for joining our Q1 FY 2024 earnings call. On this call, I'm joined by our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Saurabh Lal, and our Executive Director, Mr. Stanley Johnson. To begin with, cash has retained its prominent position this year. The currency in circulation has grown, reaching approximately INR 33.5 trillion in 2023, and it is projected to further increase to INR 35.5 trillion by the end of 2024. Currently, the cash in circulation as percentage of GDP stands at approximately 13.7%. At the same time, digital transactions have grown more than 13% year on year, led by UPI, with 8.7 billion transactions in March 2023. Leading private banks, including HDFC Bank, ICICI Bank, Axis Bank, and IndusInd Bank, are expanding their bank branches. According to a recent media report, HDFC Bank and Axis Bank together have added 1,800 branches in FY 2023. In June quarter alone, about 255 bank branches have been added by all these banks combined, with plans for additional 2,800 bank branches in FY 2024. This is a very healthy sign for cash payment industry, as every branch requires at least one on-site ATM or CRM and about two off-site ATMs or CRMs. Multiple banks have successfully implemented cash recycling machines or CRMs. This has facilitated cash deposits in addition to cash withdrawals at bank facilities. We are confident that the rapid adoption and transition to CRMs will continue. Digital banking units, or DBUs, that resemble bank branches while minimizing overall operational costs and offering consumer access 24/7, are also an exciting development in our industry. To date, 75 DBUs have been established, and there are intentions to establish approximately 4,000 more DBUs in the future. With reference to the Cash Management business, the cash management market, which includes ATM cash management, retail cash management, and dedicated cash-in-transit vans, amounted to INR 3,920 crore in 2023. Encouragingly, research indicates that this market is set to expand significantly, reaching to INR 7,900 crore by 2027. Overall, the payment industry has witnessed a series of significant regulatory modifications over the past few quarters that have ushered in a more significant, stringent framework of guidelines and standards. These include the MHA guideline on implementation of cassette swapping, introduction of DBUs, the interchange fee on PPI based UPI transactions, and interoperability of PPI wallets by NPCI and more. This is in line with the formulation of the economy and being ready for the scaled operations in bank branches, NBFCs and even organized retail outlets. From a company standpoint, we are focused on further streamlining our overall business operations and services. We had a flat performance last year owing to multiple challenges in the macro environment, slower uptake of some initiatives, spillover of our order and one-time loss allowance. Strategically, we are focused on improving our business line efficiencies and effectiveness. In the previous quarter, we had announced our partnership with RBL Bank for RuPay NCMC, or what we call it, National Common Mobility Card for the Bangalore Metro Rail Corporation.... In current year, in the current quarter, we have already issued more than 5,500 cards, and we anticipate substantial growth of it in adoption during FY 2024. Additionally, we have also received authorization from RBI to issue co-branded prepaid cards in collaboration with our partners, which will further strengthen the value proposition of our Ongo ecosystem, which includes all inclusive Ongo POS device and prepaid and loyalty schemes. This represents our strong foothold in the digital payment space and our ability to cater to a wide range of customers with enhanced convenience and efficiency. Overall, in Q1 FY 2024, we serviced approximately 483,240 customer touch points across 2,200 cities and towns in India during the quarter. We provided cash management services to more than 41,239 ATMs/CRMs through our wholly owned subsidiary, SecureValue India Limited. As on June 30th, 2023, AGS Transact Technologies has installed, maintained, and/or managed a network of approximately 76,300 ATMs and CRMs. Our CRM network has expanded to 5,779. Our ATM Outsourcing and Managed Service business, which complements cash management. Cash management is a part is housed in the standalone entity. We are constantly increasing our operational efficiencies because of the successful acquisition of significant number of ATM/ CRMs under our managed outsource portfolio. We expect to complete the integration of 8,000 ATMs/CRMs won recently in the upcoming quarter. This extensive network will enhance our revenue streams and add to our reach and service capabilities. We are optimistic about securing additional contracts to expand our portfolio, which will in turn also provide synergy benefits for our Cash Management business. The demand for ATMs/ CRMs remains strong, as evidenced by the fresh RFPs for outright sale of 15,000+ ATMs floated by banks so far. We are happy to inform you that these RFPs, out of these RFPs, we have already won an order of 1,350 ATMs from a leading PSU bank. These will be strategically deployed by the banks during FY 2024. Cash management industry, which is driven by ATM rollout, is expected to grow at 4% CAGR, especially as leading banks are stepping up their rollouts. Another, another factor is the growing demand for outsourcing. Currently, cash management is outsourced for 150,000 ATMs and CRMs out of the total 260,000 ATMs. This proportion of ATMs / CRMs being outsourced for cash management is expected to increase to 70%-75% in the medium term. Since cash logistic is a high operating leverage business which favors scaled players, there is significant headroom for a player of our size and scale. Talking about our performance in terms of sales mix for the quarter, the ATM Outsourcing business, which is on a transaction or on a fixed fee basis, contributed approximately 54% of our quarterly top line. Another 11% of the top line came from AMC services and updates. Our cash management subsidiary, SecureValue, which serves a mix of captive and non-captive ATM, ATMs, contributed 15% of the top line from the non-captive ATMs. As communicated last quarter, we have scaled down a lower margin product business. As a consequence of that, our service revenue has inched up by 4% as compared to the same quarter last year. A depiction of our gradually changing revenue mix and in line with our strategy for Q1 FY 2024, service revenue accounted to 97.6%. Now, I would request my colleague, Saurabh Lal, CFO of AGS Transact Technologies, to share the financial highlights of Q1 FY 2024. Saurabh, over to you. Thank you, Ravi. Good afternoon, everyone. Continuing from the operational highlights and major developments that happened in the company as highlighted by Ravi, let me now take you through the performance of the quarter as gone by. In the Q1 of FY 2024, the total income of the group stood at INR 3,793 million versus INR 4,272 million in Q1 of FY 2023. The reduction in top line is the consequences of scaling down of our product businesses. In connection with this, we have also observed a simultaneously reduction in various associated costs. Talking about our EBITDA number, the EBIT- adjusted EBITDA of the group in Q1 of FY 2024 stood at INR 920 million, as against INR 1,270 million in Q1 of FY 2023. The corresponding figure for Q4 2023 stood at INR 1,231 million. The adjusted EBITDA margin for Q1 FY 2024 stood at around 24.2%, as against 29.7% in Q1 of FY 2023. As we communicated in last quarter, that we'll be scaling down some of our business line, as a result of which certain direct costs have reduced. There are certain indirect, indirect costs which are expected to get pruned in the subsequent quarters. Our finance costs have declined 6% sequentially, and stand at INR 367 million, as against INR 391 million in Q4 of FY 2023. Our net debt stood at INR 6,315 million, versus INR 6,786 million in Q4 of FY 2023. On our PAT levels, we recorded a profit of INR 6 million in Q1 FY 2024, as against the profit of INR 192 million in Q1 of FY 2023. Talking about our segmental performance for the quarter, our payment solutions contributed 87% of our revenue in Q1 of FY 2024. This segment includes cash solution pay accounting for 70% of our total revenue. This covers ATM and CRM outsourcing, and managed services and cash management services. The growth is largely driven by expansion in our Payment Solution business. Our Cash Management Solution segment will grow in line with ATM outsourcing, which is already captured in ATM Outsourcing business. Currently, we are the second largest player in the market, and we leverage this as the market is looking for a stronger compliant player. Our Digital Solution segment contributed 17% of our total revenue. This includes revenue from POS machines and switching and other transaction processing. We're aiming to leverage our PPI license and ongoing digital strategies. Our Banking Automation Solution comprises of sale of ATMs, CRM, and other currency technology products, and self-service terminals, and AMCs and upgrades. This segment contributed 10% of our overall total revenue. Lastly, the Other Automation Solution segment, which encompasses the sale of machine and related services to the customer in retail, petroleum, and color segment, contributed 3% of our total revenue. With this, we conclude our presentation and open the floor for further discussions. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone wishing to ask a question, may please press star one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question is in. The first question is on the line of Payal Shah from Billion Securities. Please go ahead. Good morning, sir. Good afternoon, sir. I have a few questions which I, I ask. The first would be, how many of the 8,000 ATMs one recently have been commissioned? What is the added revenue from the same? Also in connection with the same, how many more ATMs do we expect to add in the coming year? Sure, Payal. Payal, with respect to this 8,000 ATMs, majority of the contracts has got deployed as we speak today. We expect this contract will get fully deployed by this quarter end, as we foresee. The incremental revenue, as we have said, will be approximately around INR 8,000-INR 10,000 per ATM on an annualized basis. The full year benefit or the end monthly, full monthly revenue benefit, I think will be expected from H1 or H2, from the H2 for the FY 2024. The number of ATMs that we're planning to deploy is we have a good order books for with respect to. There are two types of, Payal, with the businesses that we, o ne is the Managed Service business, where it's like PNB and UBI, where the ATMs are already existing, we are just taking over the ATM. The new deployment happens, where the we deploy and put all the ATMs, and we do all the CapEx of those ATMs. We believe for this, for this year, on a full year basis, approximately around mostly the deployment will happen on the CRM front, because most of the banks are looking for CRM deployment. It will be in the range of around 1,200-1,500 machines that we're going to deploy for this financial year. Okay, so that's quite helpful. I had another question. The ATMs have slightly reduced and CRMs have gone up. Could you please explain the reason behind this? Are ATMs being converted to CRMs, or there are some discontinued ATMs? If you may explain on that. Sure. Payal, as you rightly said, there are certain, some amount, some percentage reduction or some number of ATMs getting reduced. There are two counts to it, definitely. Wherever the new, new deployments are coming or wherever the certain contracts, because if you see the contracts that we have with the banks, those, all the contracts have a renewal option, where each and every ATMs are actually taken as a separate SKU. As and when the ATM reaches its maturity stage of contract period, which may be a 7 year, 8 year, 9 year, maybe 10 year in some contracts. Whenever banks has an option to renew those contracts or renew those ATMs part of that co-contract, bank may choose. Right now, or I would say consistently for last 1 or 2 years, banks are choosing to go with the CRM deployment further rather than going on the ATM redeployment. That is one reason. Second, there are certain contracts in our portfolio which are due for renewal also. There also, we are phasing out those, those ATMs are getting phased out as the new MSPs will going to take over those ATMs. These are the two reasons why you will see the reduction, slight reduction in the number of ATMs. At the same time, consequently, the new ATM which are getting added in our portfolio is a new deployment that we're doing it, either in the form of some replacement to the existing ATM or there is a new deployment. Okay. Okay. Sir, if I may squeeze in one more question. There has been a lot of talk around banks having a significant number of branches and expanding their overall networks. Which are the target regions that we can expect these branches to be added? Or like, would it be safe to assume that it will be the semi-urban and rural areas that are going to contribute to the growth for our company and industry? Or it, would it still be the metros to contribute the, to it? Strictly this side, the, the number of branches coming in from both the, by private sector banks especially, is coming in the Tier 3 to Tier 4 cities across a lot. Because metro is already, with, is populated with the number of branches. The way banks have approached is for every opening of three or four branches in Tier 3 to 4, they are trying to open, a branch in the metro. The major deployment looks at Tier 3 and 4 cities. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. That's what it is. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to the participants, anyone wishing to ask a question, may please press star and one. We'll move on to the next question. That is on the line of Aditya Shah from PG Securities. Please go ahead. Aditya, we're not able to hear you. Hi, Aditya. Aditya, your line is on the talk mode. Thank you for the opportunity. Hello? Hello. Yeah, Aditya, you're audible. Yeah, you're audible now. I have two questions. Our finance costs have gone down- Sorry to interrupt. Aditya, Aditya, can you use the handset mode while speaking and not the speakerphone? Our finance costs have gone down by 6% quarter-on-quarter. However, year-on-year, these costs have gone up. What are the sustainable levels for these costs to stabilize? Sure, Aditya. Aditya, as, as we have, as you've seen on the financials, our cost of percentage has gone down, finance cost has gone down by 6% sequentially. Also, you see our total debt, net debt has also gone down over a period of time. That is one of the main factor which has helped us to reduce this finance cost. I would say this was slightly offsetted by increase in the finance cost also, or the cost of interest over a period of time. We believe that as, as we have commented earlier also, the plan is that the company has reached to the debt level, which is sustainable and good for the company to run their business and operations. The only debt the company plans to take over a period of time is only to support the additional CapEx requirement of the company or maybe to help the working capital shore up. Considering the current EBITDA level that company is generating and the, the committed cash outflows that we have for either debt repayment or for other principal repayment or interest, I think company has a sufficient cash flows. We believe that our debt level should be in the range of 2x-2.5x-3x to debt-to-EBITDA level. I think that is a sustainable level for the company. Okay, sir. My second question is, as a continuation to the finance cost, what is the level of gross and net debt for the company? Are there any plans to increase the debt going forward, or we plan to strategically reduce this debt? If so, what are the expected timelines and annual levels of repayment? Aditya, as if you see in our debt profile, you will find that we have most of the debt which is largely linked to the term debt, which we have taken from the various financial institutions. Term debts have a fixed repayment plans also. We, we, we are confident that we will continue to repay those money as per the committed and confirmed timelines that we have agreed with the lenders. That will help us to reduce our leverage as, as we move forward. The leverage that company will take over a period of time may be to support the CapEx, and that additional CapEx will definitely help the company to grow its business because it will help to grow our top line also. In specifically to very unique to our business, the most of the debt are term debt, which is largely secured by the ATMs that we deploy on behalf of the banks and the receivables that we receive on deployment of those ATMs. Most of the incremental debt is linked to the incremental revenue in the form of debt assets or incremental receivables debt to support our working capital. From the current, as I said, our target is to keep our debt in between 2.5x - 3x to debt- to- EBITDA level. That is, I think, the most sustainable level for the company as we move forward. Yes, that's it from my side. Sorry, I think, Aditya, I'm missing you in between again. Okay, thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you, Aditya. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Naveen Jain from Florintree Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Saurabh. Hi, Naveen. Hi, sir, just a couple of questions. On the Cash Management business side, the last two, three quarters, you know, the ATM counts have gone down, you know, ATM under management. Whereas, you know, with the new contract that, the- Hello? Hello. Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Jain, we are unable to hear you clearly. Can you use the handset mode while speaking and not the speaker phone? Yeah, one second. Is this better? Much better. Much better, Naveen, much better. Yeah, sorry. Sorry about that. I was asking that, your, you know, ATM count under the Cash Management business has gone down in the last two, three quarters, right? What is the outlook for this year in terms of the ATM count itself at, at the Cash Management business? Naveen, as I think we've discussed it in the last call also, from the SecureValue as a business perspective, I think there are. The ATM is one of the very, very, I would say, a big business revenue for the SecureValue business come SecureValue. There are various other alternative revenues which are getting grown or I would say, getting built up within the SecureValue. If you see, there are other revenues like DCB, which is the Dedicated Cash Business, then we have a doorstep banking business, then we have vault managements and vault processing business, which is, which is, getting built up over period of time. Even if we see there is a reduction in the ATM revenues over a period of time, or number of ATM, not the revenue, number of ATMs over a period of time, I think this is getting supported by the increase in other revenues and everything. Naveen, I think over a period of time, what we've seen is in last 3, 4 years, I would say, not 1 year, 2 years, 3, 4 years, we've seen that Secure Value has grown substantially from the number of ATMs that we used to handle. The scale of operation has been moved from a regional player to All India level. Now, I think we are, we are working over a period of time for last one year or more than that, that we have to make this route more and more profitable, make this route more and more usable, and to make this route more operational efficient. From that perspective, I think what business is doing right now is that they are trying to ensure that all the not the loss making, but wherever the number of route can be merged together, wherever the number of ATMs can be merged together, they are consolidating those routes, they are rationalizing those routes. At the same time, we're trying to ensure that we should get additional businesses in the form of DCBs and everything. Those are the new, new revenue lines which are coming up. We got two new contracts in last quarter itself. Those contracts are going to get deployed. Some of them deployed last quarter, and other two of them will get deployed in this quarter. I think from outlook perspective, SecureValue believed to be the, I would say, second largest player in this market, continues to hold a good market share. We will continue to push, keep ourselves in this those leadership positions as we move forward. Okay. Sure. You know, on the digital payment side, so, you know, I think in the last couple of quarters, you've rationalized the, you know, the POS machines at the OMC outlets. Is that process, like, done overall, or there is some further rationalization that is possible? In, Naveen, in case of Digital business, the deployment of the POS, the deployment of other, whether in the OMCs and retail, continues to be there. We That is why we're able to generate this recurring revenue, which is in the form of MDR and in the form of monthly rentals, and those contracts still continues to be with us. The strategy from the ongoing basis, which is, which is our strategy from the ongoing, where we are building up our own app, where we are building our own issuance, which we as, Ravi also mentioned, we got authorizations from RBI for, for the co-branded cards. We are working on to making this ongoing strategy to go further, go forward in, as we move forward. I think from that level, I think those things has to be still get converted into the form of actual revenues. I think the plans which we are going with, I think the strategy is clear that this ongoing has to be promoted. Maybe as, as we go forward, as we move forward, maybe the next quarter or maybe next to next quarter, we'll be able to demonstrate good movement or traction in case of this new initiative that we're taking in digital space. From today's perspective, I think the steady business of OMC POS deployment, retail POS deployment continues and continues to support the company's goal to con- and leverage on the digital penetration or digital base that we have created. Okay. Finally, can you give me the gross debt number at the end of first quarter? The gross debt number is approximately, Naveen, definitely, I'll give it to you. So the gross debt number for this, this quarter, Naveen, is INR 753 crores. Okay. V is-à-vis INR 787 crore, which was last quarter. Okay. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity. Can you help me with the SecureValue's numbers, in terms of revenue, EBITDA and profit for first quarter? As since we have consolidated revenue and everything, but just to give you on a number perspective, the SecureValue continues to generate approximately gross revenue of around INR 111 crore-INR 212 crore on quarterly basis right now. The EBITDA percentage is in the range of around 20%-21% of the EBITDA, that percentage that we're generating. There are various other KPIs with respect to number of ATMs and DCBs and everything, and that those continues to grow as, as, as we speak also. From that perspective, I think the revenue is over a period of time has been consistent in the range of around INR 111 crore-INR 1,215 crore, around INR 118 crore on quarterly basis, and EBITDA of around 19%-21% range that SecureValue is generating. Okay. Number two, is, you know, with respect to the allowance provision, if I remember, right, last quarter, we had a substantial provision. Yeah. I see that there is no provision in the first quarter. Does this tend to be more, more, year-end process, or you, you think there could be allowances, possible in 2 Q, 3 Q? Sir, with respect to the loss allowance, I think last year, last quarter, when we, when we did this, I think we, we tried to cover, cover this in our analyst PPT also, that these are the loss allowances which we made for certain receivables, which is expected to get collected. Since there is a time value of money involved in this, it's getting delayed, so we have provided the loss allowance. We don't see a risk of credit with respect to the customers for whom we take this loss allowance. I think that, that statement still continues. We are still working on those loss allowances. We're still working with those customers for recovery of the old reconciliations amount with them. Having said that, since there will be certain loss allowance, that will always be part of the businesses, which, which are certain percentage of the revenue which goes into P&L every quarter-on-quarter. Since those are very normal in nature and part of the normal business activity, there has not been any exceptional item in this quarter. That is why there is no loss allowance coming in this quarter. As a normal business, there will be definitely certain percentage that, that will goes in the business, depending on the per type of ATMs that we're handling, some type of loss is happening because of some, some theft and everything. Some, some losses will always be there. Yes, as, as, as such, as we speak today, we don't foresee any exception item coming up as of today, unless and until we, we reach to that stage and we'll, we'll see that whether those, those commitments from the business or those commitments from the customers, whether those receivables have been encashed or not. In case we'll, we'll find those has been encashed, definitely we'll see the reversal also. In case there is a delay, we may, we may have to discuss again with the board and the auditor and to work on how to account those, those differences of receivables. Okay. Basis your, you know, comments, how do you see in terms of the growth and the margins, from a full year on next couple of year perspective, where do we move from here on? If I look at last, couple of years have been fairly challenging for us, in terms of the overall numbers. Would it be possible to give us some color? Would there be a single-digit growth, or could be a declining, trend for at least couple of years as we streamline the, you know, the segments? How about the margins? Sir, from, from the... I'll, I'll go the reverse way, other way around. Definitely from a margin perspective, the company is trying to work out to ensure that we completely agree, sustain those margins that we have been able to demonstrate over a period of time on a normalized basis and also on adjusted EBITDA basis. I think the more important is to adjusted EBITDA, which is what the normal scenario of the company works like. I think from the revenue front, I think Ravi has also made a point, and we have also, business internally is also aligned, that we have to work focused on the specific businesses, area which, which, where we can scale the businesses, where we can demonstrate our leadership positions. The businesses which can help us to ensure to cover up the good bottom line, not only from the P&L perspective, but from the company's full financial strength basis, covering working capital and other asset, asset allocations also. From a revenue growth perspective, I think we are, I would say, allow some time to show to the, or demonstrate to the market and to the investor community and to all of you, that the businesses in which we are now focusing specifically, even though you have seen a decline in the revenue, reduction in the revenue in this quarter one versus quarter four or versus quarter one year-on-year. The company was trying to ensure that they, they should not lose on those fixed costs and everything, and those fixed costs are also getting truncated and pruned over a period of time. I think from the margin perspective, it is more important to do more good and profitable business so that we can contribute to bottom line. Revenue-wise, I think it will be, it will be difficult for me to give the guidance today that how we want to go to. I think maybe, maybe couple of quarters down the line, once we have a full strategy with respect to these are the only businesses which we are going to continue and which is the businesses where we are growing, I think it will be more prudent on me and Ravi's part to give you more, more clarity on this part. The current participant has placed us on hold. We'll move on to the next question. That is on the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Good afternoon. Am I audible? Yeah, Rahil, very much. Yes. My question was about the, the Other Automation business segments. What kind of, like, order pipeline or how, how do you see? What do you feel about that segment for this year? Any outlook you'd like to share on that? Well, on sort of the side, on the Other Automation business side, if you see, definitely there is, there is a planned reduction of revenue over a period of time. If you had a chance to see our last time's analyst PPT or this time also our number, as internally businesses, we have agreed and systems have, sorry, management has agreed that over a period of time, we'll be moving out, or I would say, reducing the exposure on those businesses from the product side, where there is a high working capital deployment and the lower margins on those profiles. Specifically, as you from Other Automation businesses, you will see over a period of time, reduction in the revenue from the product side. Service revenue will continue to be there, because since we have already entered into those contracts with the customers, we will own those contracts, and we completely align to honor those contracts till the time of expiry. Those contracts will continue to be there. Other than that, the large focus of the organization will be on the Payment Solution segment and the Banking Automation segment, where we are continuing to deploy the ATMs, continue to deploy our Cash Management business, continue to work on digital strategies, and we continue to focus on supplying the Banking Automation solutions and services. So you feel these banking and, I think you mentioned payments, right? Payment side. Payments. That will be more than enough to, like, compensate for the loss of revenue we'll be seeing from, when you scale down the, the automation. That will definitely grow very well going ahead? Yes, from, from the margin perspective, that is what the target is that. Yes, scaling down the businesses has its own time frames and everything, transitions and everything. That is why you'll see we saw a slight reduction in our margin in this quarter versus last quarter. Though the revenue got truncated immediately, the cost impact or direct cost, definitely we can see the saving in our numbers. Yes, indirect costs related to various costs associated with, to run those businesses, contracts, vendor contracts, customers, employees and everything, it takes some time. I think that, that is what we're targeting, that as, as we move forward, those, those benefits will start flowing into the company and we'll be back to the, you know, margins that, that we used to enjoy till last quarter. Those are the lines. Yes, I think, to come into your main point with respect to other businesses, I think if those businesses generate those revenue numbers, those committed numbers and everything, and if the EBITDA margins are retained and sustained, I think those EBITDA margin will be good for the company and as a community to continue and focus on those businesses. Okay, okay, got it. Lastly, I think you mentioned about the new, the 8,018 CRM contract, which we have been deploying. So I think you mentioned incremental revenue, INR 8,000-10,000, did you say? Per, per ATM per month, yeah. Per ATM per month. All right. Got it. That's it from me. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Rohit Mehra from SP Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Welcome. My first question is about the... We are seeing the strong movement towards the UPI and cardless payment, right? In both organized and unorganized retail, what are we, are we as a company doing to adapt this changing trend and benefit this growing wave of digitalization? Sure. Yeah. Rohit, with respect to the UPI and everything, I think if you see our company, ITSL, I think that the company is very well positioned to capture not only from the acquiring side, but also from the issuing side. We have the authorization from RBI to issue the prepaid card also, and we have a very big network for the acquiring solutions, where merchant can use our machines, any DC machines. UPI is one of the acceptable payment network over there. We are earning our share of revenue from UPI over there. Yes, if you see the UPI transactions or maybe a RuPay transactions, the government has restricted the revenue for both, for the issuer also and from the acquirer also. Whatever percentage of revenue which, like, which come from, like, MeitY, which issued these guidelines that, that to compensate the loss of MDR and everything to the issuer and acquirer, they have come out with the policy. Those revenues are coming up. From a company's standpoint of view, I think our, our solution is to offer payment in the market, and UPI is one of, one of the core, core competence, one of the payment profile, or I would say one of the payment segment, through which the payment can be accepted by both merchant and from the customer perspective also. Now, coming to the issuance, I think as we said, we have a, we, we have a authorization from RBI to issue prepaid card. We are going to launch this RBI prepaid card through our RuPay network only, for which we again have authorization from NPCI. From that perspective, I think all, all form of payments will get be done, and it will be a UPI-enabled card, which will allow use to customer to use those prepaid money and everything to the UPI wallet also. I think from that perspective, we'll be, we'll be part of the journey and part of the growth story, which is happening in the, in the way the UPI transactions are growing across the India and across the globe. Okay, perfect. In the previous earnings call, we had guided towards the setting up of digital banking units, right? Could you update on this progress made on that front? Also, what would be the unit economics of the same? Standing here, the digital banking unit, which was set up for 75 of them last year, there are talks by the regulator with all the banks to set up around 4,000-6,000 more across in the coming year. The unit economics are different on different contracts across them, because in certain DBUs, it is taken in different models across. We can take you later on with the unit e-economics for each DBU. As of now, around bank, RBI is talking for around 4,000-6,000 more to be deployed across. Okay, thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be taking the last question. That is on the line of Rishikesh Oza from Robo Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is with respect to our SVL revenues. Our SVL revenues used to be higher earlier, which now currently that you just indicated, they're around INR 112 crore-INR 115 crore range. Why have the revenues gone down? Okay. Rishi, with respect to the various revenues, if you see again, as you said, when we 3 years back, when we expanded our Security business, we expanded to all the territories. From when we expanded to all the territories, definitely the cost to run those operations was higher than what we are earning from those territories. If you see last 2- 3 years, our EBITDA margins have expanded, even though we saw certain reduction in the revenue, because we started rationalizing our routes and profitabilities of those routes and operational efficiencies to bring on those routes. You see our EBITDA margin, which used to be around 14%-15% couple of years back, has now reached to +19%, +20%. I think that is one of the main reason for us to rationalize our revenues. Now the next phase of plan is that to add more and more other forms of revenue to the ATM. Like, ATM is definitely one of the biggest source of revenue for SecureValue, but there are opportunities coming in various other cash logistics part, like doorstep banking, BCV, directly cash van business, and other forms of cash businesses, like vault management by various banks and everything. Though you saw a dip in the revenue over a period of time from, I think the highest was around INR 118 crore-INR 119 crore on per quarter to INR 111 crore, but the margin profile of the company has continuously grown, and it has reached to almost 20% now. Okay. On SVL, follow-up, what would be the realizations for, you know, this quarter per month basis? Earlier, we used to say that, the realizations due to MHA guidelines would go up to, you know, INR 11,000-INR 12,000 per month. Where we are exactly, and by when can we see those kind of realizations? Even if today, Rishi, you, you'll check approximately, if I say INR 111 crore revenue coming on a 40,000 ATMs, we already at around INR 8,000-INR 9,000 per ATM per month basis. I think many ATMs have already moved to the MHA guidance compliant and other, other activities. I think on an overall basis, the industry is working on this. There are two things happening in the industry. One is the MHA compliance, another is the cassette swap. Many of the MSPs and many of the banks have already moved to the MHA guidelines, and many of the industry players have moved to cassette swap. I think once this is get rolled out 100% completely, we'll able to see this number of 11,000, 12,000. If I distribute or dissect my portfolio, you'll see many ATMs are already generating more than INR 10,000 per month. Yes, there are certain ATMs which has not yet complied with MHAs, or there are certain ATMs where the cassette swap is still not implemented. The average realization may be in the range of INR 7,500-INR 8,000. Okay. What would be our growth guidance for SVL then, for next 2 years at least? Growth guidance will be tough, yes, as we said, we have positioned ourselves as one of the leader in the market. We are the second largest player in the market, there are very few player in the market who can manage the scale at this level, I think. From a market perspective, I think growth is definitely one of the thing, I think as a company, as a group, we have taken a stand internally is that I think it's will be right for us from this point of time to focus more on the bottom line rather than the top line. That is where we're working on, both whether it will talk about the AGS or whether talk about the other group companies, including SecureValue and ITSL. I think the more important goal for us is to bring back the profitability or continue and sustain those profitability levels that we had. I'm sure once we were able to retain those things, when we're able to generate those margins, I think growth will automatically follow us. I think from the opportunity perspective, like Ravi also mentioned, the industries feel that more than 50,000 ATMs are still pending to be transferred to the outsourcing partner like us. We see a big opportunity coming up on that space also. There will be definitely upside available to us. At the same time, whatever growth is happening in AGS, which is a holding only, holding company for the SecureValue, any growth of ATM based on the MS contract side or IIT side, automatically it will benefit SecureValue. I think from that perspective, we see that the, the future looks good for SecureValue from a business perspective. Now, I think SecureValue's business and operation has to decide which ATM to take over, which ATM to hold, so that we, we maintain and sustain those profitability. Okay. Thank you. Also, with respect to the POS revenues, what is the revenues of POS for this quarter? The POS revenue, digital revenue for this quarter is approximately, I would say, INR 65 crore or INR 650 million on a total basis. Okay, out of that, what is POS revenue out of total digital revenue? Out of POS revenue is approximately INR 49.6 crore is a POS revenue. Okay. Any guidance on the POS revenues? Where, where do you see the POS revenues going, like growing for next 2, 3 years? I think with the POS revenue, as, as we see, I think it's a macro impact happening all across the market also is that the government and the regulators and all the companies and the institutions are pushing on more and more digital transactions. We see that those, those, those macroeconomic sector will definitely benefit us also as one of the major player in this play market. From the growth perspective, I think there are, there are many other initiatives, as I mentioned previously, that we are working on various initiatives on the Ongo side, on the fueling side and other things. Those, those initiatives will definitely add up to the revenue. The guidance number will definitely be tough, but I think we, we, we have positioned ourselves as a very strong player, and we believe that maybe in couple of quarters from now, we'll able to demonstrate you the other revenue streams other than the POS getting accrued in ITSL. Okay. Okay, that was helpful, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the, you know, debt that we're having. If you can state the, you know, net debt that we have, and also the debt has been increasing despite our focus on non-CapEx ATMs. Can you please explain where the, why the, why the debt numbers are increasing? Also in terms of the, you know, debtor days, we have been increasing, it, it, it, it, it has also been on an increasing trend. What steps we are taking to bring down our debtor days? Sure, Amit. Amit, from the debt perspective, if you see the overall debt perspective, the overall, either you check the gross debt or net debt, definitely it has, it has gone from the peak which it was earlier. Company is consciously ensuring that whatever additional debt is taken by the company after the repayment or net debt that is taken by the company, has to be used for a specific purpose or has to be supported by incremental revenue and, and other, other things, or maybe for to shore up the working capital. I think, I think that is what the cognition, and most of the debt, if you've seen our balance sheet, is term debt. The working capital part is very, very limited. It has a confirmed repayment schedule, so we know that at this stage of time, this, this debt will come down by this value. At this stage, this is what the repayment schedule of the company is there. From, I think, that perspective, we have been ensuring that our debt level should not balloon, and internally, we work with those debt- to- EBITDA covenants or debt to TNW, and all those things has been monitored. On the working capital side, definitely the work is going on. The debtor days, if you see a period of time, I would say it has not improved significantly. From the internal company's business perspective, other things perspective, the reconciliation process and everything is going on. I think it will take some more time for us to come out and able to demonstrate that there is a reduction in the debtor days over the period of time. Yes, it will take some more time now, because you will see in this quarter or maybe the next, next quarter, when we'll, we'll share the more detailed financials results with the balance sheet and everything. That revenue has gone down of the company from certain segment, but debtor levels are still there. You'll, you'll see, and we'll able to demonstrate that all those businesses that has been slowed down by the company over a period of time because of the economies and everything, you will able to demonstrate those realizations of debtors, which is stuck or which is on hold for those businesses, have started coming in. I think maybe, Amit, let's wait for one more quarter. Let's see the balance sheet, how it looks like. I think, and internally, from the internal business point of view, I think the situation is improving day by day, but yes, significant improvement needs to be done, and on which we are working on. On the, on the debtor days, obviously, I know we have, large, private banks as our client. Top three is, the large private banks. Why they're... First of all, in terms of the debtor days, how it is split, between the businesses? Is it, the, split, similar across the businesses or some businesses have, much higher debtor days than what we report at consolidated? Also, I'm not able to understand why it's going up, and it's so high if we have, banks as our clients. I know, like, PSU banks, they have a higher, cycle, working capital cycle, but that, in terms of our mix, in terms of revenues, will be not that high. Amit, you're correct. If you see our financial results also, and if you see our segment analysis also, the total asset that we have in, like, in Other Automation business, is standing at around INR 145 crore. The segment revenue for Other Automation is right now standing only at INR 12 crore. If you see my Payment Solution segment, the revenue is at INR 323 crore, with a segment asset of INR 1,400 crore and the liability of INR 650 crore. Net asset is around INR 900 crore. That is how, what we're saying is that there is a lot of assets and a lot of working capital getting stuck. I would say not stuck, sorry, but yes, it will deploy in the Other Automation businesses and other businesses, where we are slowly, slowly recovering those amount. I think that cash will help the company to grow other businesses and to support other businesses. That is where we are working on the working capital side. That is what the plan is to scale down the Other Automation businesses or other retail color businesses so that those capital and those working capital can be deployed into other businesses which can generate some good margins, both on the gross side and on the net side, and it should not impact my working capital also. I think that's what the plan is, Amit. In terms of the total debt of our INR 900 crore, so not, debt, sorry, like, debtors of INR 900 crore that we have on our revenue of, say, INR 1,600-1,700 crore. Mm-hmm. How that, debtors will be split across, say, like, payments or SVL or, the Other Automation, the other part of the business, if you can give some color there? Amit, very difficult to give you immediate answer. We can definitely share those details. I will ask Khanshu and Shikha to definitely work on this, and we'll share you. As I said, you will find that as we have started pruning down the other businesses, the debtors are still there, and we are in the process and working on the realization of those debtors. Largely, if you, if you see my Banking Automation, Other Automation businesses, the debtor days will always be higher as compared to sales revenue because of various milestones and payment linked to various services and retention money and every other thing. In Payment Solutions, the normal debtor days range between 75 to 90 days from the date of billing and everything. There will be some, some higher debt, higher debtor value because of that reconciliations and other amounts, which is, which is, which we're working with the large bank, as you mentioned also. Yes, Amit, we can share the complete details with segment-wise that what are these debtors and special debtors. Also, in terms of debts from here on, you know, how do you see the debt moving? If I'm not wrong, we are focusing more on non-CapEx ATMs, and the contracts that we're winning is mostly non-CapEx related. Is it the peak debt that we are seeing, or are we planning to repay some debt from here on, or how the debt will pan out, say, from, like, 2 years from now? As of now, Amit, as we speak, we're continuously paying all the debt, everything on month-on-month basis. Even if, if, even if you see our quarter four number, quarter four number, the debt has been repaid by almost by INR 40 crore-INR 45 crore. Even on the gross debt basis or even on the net debt basis, you'll see a reduction on the debt side. Similarly, since, as I said, most of the debt is a term loan-based debt, which will get paid as per the agreed schedule and the quarterly schedule and monthly schedule that we are paying those debt loan. From a current business perspective, we will continue with the same business model, slow down on the CapEx, reduce the CapEx and everything. We slow down on the CapEx and everything. There will automatically repayment of term loans and other things on every month-on-month basis and quarter-on-quarter basis. Yes, if business needs to deploy more ATM, wanted to acquire those AT, new ATMs, and if the business sustainability says that this debt is definitely going to help for the healthy company with respect to additional revenue, additional margin, I'm sure at that point of time, both the management and the board will take a conscious call and to raise the debt or not. I think right now, the debt levels, we feel they are, they are okay to continue as we have a confirmed sustainable recurring EBITDA, which is sufficient for us to repay the existing debt. If the business stays as it is, as we today are, and we don't do any CapEx or something, automatically, you will see there is a repayment happening on those debt points. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Amit. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was our last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today on our Q1 FY 2024 earnings call. We appreciate your interest in AGS Transact Technologies Ltd, and we aim to encash the opportunities on offer by capitalizing on the work done so far and the strategic direction we have taken for the future. Should you have any further queries, please contact SGA, our investor relations advisor. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, members of the management team. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of AGS Transact Technologies Ltd, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.