Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Computer Age Management Services Limited Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call organized by Orient Capital. We have on the call with us today, Mr. Anuj Kumar, Managing Director, Mr. Ramcharan S.R., CFO, Mr. Anish Sawlani, Head Investor Relations. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nachiket Kale from Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Hi, good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Q1 FY 2024 earnings conference call for CAMS. As mentioned today from the management, we have with us Mr. Anuj Kumar, Managing Director; Mr. Ramcharan S.R., CFO; and Mr. Aneesh Savlani, Head of Investor Relations. Before we proceed to start the call, I'd like to give a small disclaimer that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties, which are difficult to predict. A detailed disclaimer has also been published in the investor presentation, which was released to the stock exchange. I hope everybody had a chance to go through the presentation. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Anuj Kumar, Managing Director. Thanks, everyone, and over to you, sir. Okay. Thanks, Nachiket, for making the introductions. Good morning, everyone. I appreciate all of you joining this earnings call for the first quarter of the current financial year. We also expect that you had the opportunity to download the presentation, either from the website or from other available places, and that you have a copy readily available that you'll be able to reference. I will certainly call out the charts that I am intending to cover while we go through this presentation. I will start by talking of the overall macro picture in terms of what's happened in 1Q. I'm on chart number 6 of the presentation. You may have noticed that CAMS has won RTA mandates, two RTA mandates in the 1st quarter, one from Angel One, the other from Torus Oro. Both of them are new to the industry, entrants. Both have applied for a license are in different stages of obtaining that license. This then takes us to a position where CAMS has won four of the last six, like you may have noticed, of RTA mandates coming from new mutual funds who applied for a license. It's a great vindication of the belief the market has in our capabilities. It solidifies our position, and obviously, it's a key highlight for the quarter. Another noticeable thing, apart from these wins that happened was, again, you may have noticed, because these are public figures, that our share, our AUM share of the market, crept up from 68.3% to 68.7%, largely riding on net sales in the quarter. I'll cover this in a bit of detail as we skip to the main section after I'm done with the highlights. On alternatives, overall, we had a solid 19% year-on-year revenue growth. Coming on the back of two previous successful years, I think this quarterly growth is again, just a sound testament to the belief the market has in our capabilities. Overall, 27 wins. I'll go through the wins in just a bit when we come to that section. Overall, 27 new wins in the vertical were recorded between the CAMS team and the Fintuple team together during the quarter. If I move forward on CAMS Pay, which is our payments business, we saw a 25% year-on-year revenue growth. Two of the non-MF businesses, alternatives grew 19%. On the back of previous two years of solid growth in revenue, in the business, payments grew 25% year-over-year. Overall, from a share perspective and from an offering perspective, digital footprint as offered through APIs, e-mandates, and specifically, UPI AutoPay, which we believe, and the market believes will, over a period of time, become the accepted way of paying for SIPs and other various forms of recurring payments. I, I think there's a significant success in expanding our reach and kind of establishing the offerings amongst the clients from a CAMS Pay perspective. CAMS KRA, which traditionally for the last almost a decade, sold to and serviced mutual funds. That was the core franchise. The last about one year, we've attempted hard to break into other segments. One of the other segments is other segments of the capital markets, year-on-year revenue growth, in CAMS KRA. Emerging, of course, the solid underpinning of the mutual fund growth anyways is there, but I think a large part of the growth comes from, from the Fintechs and brokerages. You may have also seen some focused PR in the media from our side on this 10-minute KYC, which is essentially an industry first, an AI-embedded solution, which helps us onboard a new consumer within 10 minutes to become investment ready, and takes away one of the control scales that the industry has had for a long time, and obviously, allows a selling entity, as well as a mutual fund or a brokerage, to turn around an account very quickly and get the investor to start participating. The rep on insurance, while you know that any final decision on dematerialization of insurance policies is still not probably out, we don't know the date. There is no firm announcement yet. We continue to wait. I think overall, we saw almost doubling of both EIA accounts and insurance policies. Almost unanimously done between us, the manufacturers and individuals who are buying insurance. There was just that momentum. It is not momentum driven by regulation. Good numbers, but of course, we continue to wait for the main event. I'll slip forward on Think 360, two or three major callouts. You know that this was an investment we had announced in March, concluded in April of this year. Essentially, the first concluded quarter for Think360 to be part of the CAMS Group. We won a contract. This is our third PSU bank. You know, these are extremely competitive, hard-fought bids. The third bank, between Bank of Baroda, Central Bank and Canara Bank, has adopted the QuickID as a product for video onboarding and video KYC. Video KYC, as you know, is fast replacing traditional modes of KYC in banks, of course, the volumes there are very, very different from what you see in capital markets. The third PSU bank have adopted this. Additionally, for our alternative credit scoring product, which is Algo360, we won a mandate from SBI Cards. You know, it's one of the top two issuers of credit cards in India. Amongst the many other wins, I'll not talk of everything. KreditBee also joined with one of the top five, six leading lending Fintechs, chose to opt for Algo360. From an account aggregator perspective, the space continues to buzz. I will talk a little more on the specific product and business chart, but 25 over on new sign-ups, and then you want to see some focus here from our side, CAMS Consult winning the Technology Award. This is a Banking Frontiers Award for one of the use cases, which is bank validation. On NPS, we continue to retain the number two position in e-NPS. Made some inroads into the POP and corporate segment. Almost 48%-50% of new subscriptions into NPS are coming from the retail POP channel. Of course, in e-NPS, we continue to hold the number two position. On digital, I think, continuing good story. CAMS digital properties continue to climb, about 8% quarter-on-quarter growth. MyCAMS now at over 6 million registrations. MF Central API, as you know that while you visit MF Central, you can also use the utility in an indirect way through a lot of RIA Fintech kind of partners. Over 1.5 million hits on the API side, which is great validation of the API architecture and that mode of usage is growing and getting accepted in the marketplace. It was also a very solid, I would say, very satisfying quarter from an awards and recognition perspective. A lot of this you've seen. Ramcharan, who's here with me, was recognized as one of the best CFOs in the country in a specific segment. BW Businessworld awarded us the HR Excellence Award, especially for our work towards employee communities. This is an initiative taken internally over the last about 100, about 1.5 years. We won the ET DataCon Award, and then I spoke about the Banking Frontiers Awards for CAMS Consult. Also, again, you may have noticed this, again, very exclusive recognition. think360.ai became the only Indian, the only Indian company to be recognized by FinTech Global in the list of the top 100 global Fintechs. There was a list of top 100 global Fintechs. The only Indian company to get recognized was think360.ai. Like I said, you may have noticed, some of this. I'll move on to chart number eight. While I spoke about market share expansion of 68.3 to 68.7, what made this happen is a set of foundational metrics, a set of metrics which don't just influence the current quarter, but are likely to influence the future quarters in future years. I'll just talk between this chart and the next, about three or four of these key ones. What you see at the bottom is essentially the flow or the net sales market share. You know, stock is stock. Flow adds on top of this. On equity, this market share, you can see in the bar chart, was 33% in the last quarter and went up to 99% in the current quarter. Of course, we're not expecting 99% to repeat itself, but for a quarter, a fantastic number. 33% is also not a bad number, a great number too, from which we grew to 99%. This incremented flow obviously is a contributor to the market share going up. Similarly, in debt, this share went up significantly, as you can see again, from 37%-78% and then net sales. Foundational numbers, they have to hold out for a quarter or two more. I think from a quarterly perspective, just gave significant fill-up to the overall AUM market share. When you see transactions, that's a good story, too. We're holding out very well, from about INR 124 million in the last quarter to about INR 128 million. That's almost INR 0.5 crore quarter-over-quarter growth on transactions. When you see unique investors, we added almost 9.6 lakh investors during the quarter, a much larger number than the previous quarter. Again, a large number of unique investors, greater net sales flow in equity, greater net sales flow in debt, and expanding market share in all those places, I think is just great vindication to what's happened in the market. It's also foundationally a solid trend, which should continue helping us in the, in the trading model. I'll flip to the next and what, again, on the chart, you can see this in chart number nine. Again, I'll talk about volumes, and I'll talk about share. New SIP registrations, you know that this is one single metric, which is very represented the middle and bottom of the pyramid participation in mutual fund sector. Growing quite well. If you see absolute SIP registrations from about INR 40 lakh to INR 47 lakh, 4 Q to 1 Q, again, a significant increase in share, 60 some change growing to 65.2%. In terms of overall share change in new SIP registrations, almost 3% up. Again, a foundational metric because these people will continue contributing to our share of the industry for many quarters to come. Gross sales, a similar trend. Of course, the growth isn't as big as 3%, but you see gross sales moved up from INR 24,600 to about INR 25,800. Almost INR 1,000 crore, over INR 1,000 crore, going to crore up. Again, share almost 1% up from 58.8 to 59.7. All the last four or five things that I've shown you: net sales and equity, net sales and debt, absolute count of MF investors, SIP, new SIP gross registration count, and gross sales and SIP is a great metrics in terms of foundational activity. Similarly, you see live SIPs growing from, what, about INR 3.5 crore to INR 3.73 crore. New portfolios haven't grown to almost in CAMS being at 65%. Like I said, these are both operating metrics and financial metrics. I'll move to the next. Quickly, you know, I've spoken about this, so will not dwell for too long. 68.7 market share up from 68.3, largely driven by what's happened in equity, where you've seen. If you see the bottom part of the right-hand side, in equity, our year-over-year growth is significantly ahead of industry, industry at 19.5%, CAMS at 19.9. That's almost 3.5% up year-over-year. Similarly, quarter-over-quarter, almost 0.6% up. That's really the defining thing, which is some kind of, change things for us in the last quarter. Move to the next, please. Again, I will not dwell for too long on all of this. You've seen it, across the board, year-over-year, high double-digit growth. Also, I think quarter-on-quarter, any growth which is upwards of 4%-5% is significant in terms of giving a fillip to the entry in quarters, which we will see in the current quarter. All strong point in north and all green. Go to the next, please. I will quickly stop by maybe for a minutes in the next six charts and give you any commentary. Percent growth, revenue growth in alternatives coming on the back of two previous successful years. Just in terms of counts, and these counts continue to grow, over 400 unique funds are serviced by us, almost 150 fund houses. A lot of repeat purchase happening there. Almost INR 175,000 crore of assets under service, which is a large part of the current outsource market. Digitally, over 90 installations of CAMS WealthServ, we are about to announce version 2.0 of this product to hit the market soon with an expanded suite of capabilities. In the last two years, almost at the rate of about one a week, one every eight days, we've got new installations and some of the funds, both PMS and AIF, almost 25%-30% of the new traffic now comes digitally, which is a great vindication to the adoption that the market has done. Overall, gives to be the offering continues to remain bolstered. I do want to call out that we have chosen to go ahead with a very, I would say, well-accepted, solid, robust platform called Multifonds. This is a product of Temenos, and the reason we brought it here for our own use and for the use of our clients in this city, but also outside of that, is that for multi-country, multi-currency kind of product offering, we wanted the best in breed to be offered to consumers, which is what we've brought in now. Everything is done, is now on offer to our client base. Then between CAMS and Multifonds, we continue to be the digital transformation partner for the original market. I spoke about Account Aggregator, clarify new wins during the quarter. We were also the first Account Aggregator to go live with mutual funds. Mutual fund data is now available, and you can try some of this, downloading your own portfolios yourself. The industry is growing. Very, very different use cases are emerging, multi-FIP concerns single journeys. You know that in the world of digital and fintech, journeys are very important. You don't want a consumer to repeat a step two times, you don't want him to give two OTPs, you don't want him to do more clicks than he needs to. Single journeys, supporting multiple flows, all of this is getting offered in the marketplace. We now boast of a best-in-class amongst the mid-size score, and I spoke about the technology award to you, so overall doing very well. On CAMS Pay, let's the next chart, chart number 14. Over 50% market share, I think this is the built brick by brick when you see the mutual fund ecosystem for recurring payments. RP is recurring payments. I think brick by brick, we brought all those to work for us, and not just in mutual funds. We have a declining share in NPFC and insurance, too, but mutual funds is a significant milestone, so we are calling it out. You see a lot of numbers there, but what I want to call out and what I said was 25% year-on-year growth, overall, in terms of revenue expansion. Then the significant digital footprint, UPI, AutoPay becoming almost a pioneer product in the market, but through APIs, e-, et cetera, consistently broadening, a consistent broadening of the offering, which has led to the success. CAMS REP, I said that we don't have yet a firm outlook on when the undertrading market will happen, but over 5 million insurance policies, insurance policies and insurance amounts almost 100% up. We, we continue to, to, do the deep placement product across the industry in terms of finding the beneficiaries of unclaimed amounts and working with the industry with almost a INR 1,000 crore book for profit and loss. Of course, in the market or should be in the market soon for a digital loan assignment product. On CRA, I've spoken, number two position in the NPS sales, about 68% market share, and almost 50% of our throughput now coming through the POP route. Action has begun there, and expect to report, you know, growing numbers as we move on. On Think, there's been a very, very, I would say, credible set of wins. We spoke about Canara Bank for QuickID, and we spoke about others, including KreditBee and SBI Cards for Algo360. Overall, we see that significant growth across product lines amongst clients, very well-recognized overall in the marketplace. Then from an overall footprint perspective, number of practitioners, et cetera, things continue to go north, so we expect to continue reporting better and better numbers from Think. I will pause here. That will be commentary on overall company and group and operating performance. I'll hand over to my colleague, Ramcharan, to speak to you about the financials. Thank you, Anuj. Over the next five, ten minutes, I will just give you an overview of the revenue highlights as well as the profit highlights for the quarter. The AUM for the current quarter, average AUM, as you saw in the earlier part of the presentation, is around INR 30 trillion, INR 29.95 trillion, which represented 14.1% growth on a year-on-year basis. Tracking that, our revenue for the quarter was at INR 261 crore, which is up 10.4% year-on-year. The corresponding number last year was INR 236 crore, and the last quarter was INR 249 crore. It's a 10.4% up year-on-year and a 4.8% or almost 5% up quarter-on-quarter in terms of the overall revenue. Out of this, the asset-based revenue, which was at INR 180 crore the last year, same quarter is around INR 190 crore. That's up 5.5% year-on-year. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, the revenue is up 2%, the asset-based revenue. The non-asset-based revenue, driven by transaction revenue and some application development revenue that we do, is up a smart 14.2% year-on-year, which is at INR 37.5 crore for the current quarter. Even on a quarter-on-quarter, it's up a very nice 8.5%. Non-asset-based revenue, a very good uptake at 14.2% year-on-year and 8.5% quarter-on-quarter. The number is now at INR 37.5 crore, driven by transaction and application development. The non-MF revenue, I think the story on non-MF revenue doing better, it's continuing in large part of it. On a year-on-year basis, this is up 43.5%, this is INR 33 crore. Even on a quarter-on-quarter basis, this is up 20%. This does include the Think Analytics revenue to the extent of INR 4.5 crore. Keeping that aside, also, there's a very smart growth in the non-MF revenue on a year-on-year basis and a quarter-on-quarter basis. The non-MF revenue now is at INR 33 crore, you would have seen that there's creep happening on the non-MF share of the overall business. What used to be sub 10% is now up to more than 12%. We are on the right track from that perspective, from the diversification. The non-MF revenue growth was driven on a year-on-year basis by growth in the alternatives or AIF, which is up 15%, on payments, which is up 25%, on the KRA revenue, which is up 40%. There are some adjacencies in terms of websites and APIs that we built for, that is up almost 50%. Overall, the non-MF revenue is continuing its trajectory that we anticipated for it in terms of increasing its pie, a share of the overall pie. The asset mix, while on a quarter-on-quarter basis, it remained very static. The equity component was 46.5%, hence, no big upside from a yield perspective because of the equity movement. On a year-on-year perspective, it was marginally up from 43%-46%. The major issue in this, which all of you will have a question on, is the yields. You would see that there has been some drop in the yields. You know, we have actually been guiding all of you over the last few quarters, that there is a resetting of rates for, for a couple of large customers. We have indicated in or stated in the last few quarter calls, that this is kind of a glide path that we have, which is spread over a few quarters. We expect that the maximum impact of this has already come into the books with this quarter, and there could be some runoff or some incremental impact in the next quarter, but post which we will be business as usual. The takeaway from that is, as expected and as guided, there, there was a guided path of reduction and resetting of the rates for two large customers, which should kind of get largely over by this quarter and some probably incremental impact in the next quarter. Post that, I think we are on the path to get to where we normally are. That's the commentary on the yields, in, in terms of the AUM fees. In terms of the profits, again, our, our guidance has always been, and commitment has always been that irrespective of what happens from a yields or a cost perspective, we will hold the operating EBITDA margins at between 40% and 44%. This quarter has been the annual increment quarter, which is that we did get a more than INR 5 crore cost because of the annual increment that we roll out for all the employees in April. In spite of eating that cost, you know, and in spite of the small yield depletion that we've happened, we are happy to say that the operating EBITDA, we have held it around 42.2%, which is well within or in the range that we had guided for in terms of the operating EBITDA. You know, the fourth quarter is the quarter in which you will see the lump of the salary increment costs coming into the P&L. Going forward, we only expect that this margin will get better as the year progresses, given that there is not going to be any incremental cost at that level in the future quarters. The AUM growth and other revenue growth will continue to happen. It's almost like a step growth in cost that happens in Q1. Given all that, our EBITDA percentage at 42.2% was a satisfactory performance. We also, this is compared to 41.4% EBITDA that we had or negative EBITDA in the corresponding quarter last year, which means that we have seen a creep up year-on-year on the EBITDA percentage by almost a percentage. In terms of the numbers, we ended the quarter with a EBITDA of 110.24%, which was INR 98 crore in the comparable quarter last year. Again, increase of 12.4% year-on-year on EBITDA number. Even on a quarter-on-quarter basis, we are up almost by 1% on the EBITDA. PBT, again, I know we were at a 38.4% PBT, up 17% year-on-year at INR 101.91 crore. The PAT, we have ended the quarter with a INR 76.34 crore, which is up again, which is up again 18% year-on-year, or 29% margin of PAT. Overall, from a margins perspective, we have kept the margins in spite of cost pressures, in, in spite of yield pressures. We expect that the going forward, you know, this is only going to go, this is only going to show an increasing trend. We ended the quarter with a very comfortable cash and cash equivalent position of INR 509 crore. The board of directors was pleased to confirm an interim dividend of INR 8 per share. This is in addition to the INR 12 per share of last quarter dividend, which is up for the shareholders approval in the AGM later today. That's the broad summary in terms of the financials. We do have the trends and various other numbers from P&L, which is available in the earnings presentation. You can have a look at it and get back to us in case you have any questions. With this, I hand it back to the moderator, Seema, for the Q&A. Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin with the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Are requested to you asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take the first question from the line of Mr. Abhijit from Kotak. Please go ahead, sir. Hi, good morning. First question is on the MF RTA business. Just to kind of get this right, what we are saying is that the current number on the yields, effectively forms the, the base, going forward, right? Barring, the remainder impact that will flow in, in the second quarter. That's, that's correct. That, that's correct. Because like Ramcharan said, while our prices have been very competitive in the marketplace, we've pointed out to you in the past that there were one or two contracts where we needed to reset. The reset went on for a period of time, and now we've kind of culminated that reset. 1Q is the last quarter for that. What you should see is yields holding fairly steady after this. Okay. Second is, just on the RTA side, there's good pickup on the non-asset-based revenues. Ram mentioned something along the lines of, you know, application development and transaction. Just wanted to check if this is really the, the base going forward, or there's been some bunching up that has happened this quarter? I'll just, that's right. You know, when we speak about application development, it's things like, you know, the functionalities that we do value at in terms of product. For example, the MFEX or the, or the suspicious transaction portal or the AIF, the front office portal, or some things like that. It is, it is a part of MF, but adjacent to the MF. There is no one-off in this. There is no one-off in this. This is seen a sustained interest in terms of the valuation that we do to our customers, and hence, there is a revenue coming in. This should, this should be the base going forward. We are sure of that. Okay, that's good to see. One question on the non-MF business. Good to see the, the pickup in revenues here as well. Just for clarification point of view, this FA tie-up with Temenos, how is it different from, you know, what Fintuple Technologies was, was doing for you? A related question is that when we kind of back out the yields, it, it comes to about, closer to 2 basis points. Just wanted to check if that is really the, the, the ongoing rate for this sort of service in the AIF market. No, sure. On part one, Fintuple's core business has been creating a digital onboarding platform. This is what they started with. Now, a very bespoke development of these onboarding platforms. CAMS is the more industrialized product. You either buy the product or you don't. Fintuple is a bespoke product. We work with banks, especially, their custody functions. It will be entire set of onboarding functions and digitalization functions. That's what Fintuple does. Multifonds is a, is a fund accounting software, and it's a fund accounting platform, which is used globally. We were wanting to do something in this area for a long time, especially with Gift City, given what it is, and non-Gift City requirements also emerging. To be able to do fund accounting and multi-currency, for, for people who are either raising or deploying monies in multiple countries in multiple currencies. That is a fund accounting product, which will now, which will now become available to us. It's very, very different to what Fintuple does. The question on yields? Yeah. See, you know, the way we charge a, if your question is yields on AIF, sir, if that is the question, then you know, the way we charge AIF is not entirely based on AUM, right? Almost 60%, 70% of the billing happens on the number of investors who are onboarded to a scheme. From a calculation perspective, I think the yields that you are showing is consistent, you know. It's, it's been always between 1.75 and 2 effectively. Let me just clarify, the way we charge most of the AIF is not based on the AUM. It's more based on the number of investors in a particular scheme and a slab-based rate, depending on the number of investors and a per, per month charge that we do. Got it. Got it. I have a question on OpEx. I can come back in with you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. We'll take the next question from the line of Mr. Devesh Agarwal from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead, sir. Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. First question again on the mutual fund yields. So we see on a sequential basis, we see a 5.5% decline. The yields are more like 2.57 basis points versus a growth on 7% on the overall AUM. Now, my question is, you said that this moderation can continue even in 2Q. So are we kind of expecting a similar kind of moderation even in 2Q? No, not really, Devesh. What we had said was, I mean, think of a longer period, think of maybe the last, five to six quarters. Whatever moderation you have seen was largely emanating from, like we said, one or two contracts. That process is concluding, has almost concluded, will conclude in one Q. Whatever impact you've seen in the past, is in the books, you will see a small impact in one Q. After that, the yields should hold very steady, which means we are at the tail end of that adjustment process. The last step is getting executed in this quarter, in one Q. Just to add, you know, the, the most of the impact has already been seen, Devesh. To see that there'll be zero impact is not, is not true, but at the same time, it will be nowhere near what you're seeing for the current quarter. Understood. Sir, any sense in terms of adjusting for this one, two account, what would be the moderation that we would have seen in the quarter on a sequential basis? In fact, you know, given that, most of the other customers are in line with what we expect, which is that, in fact, the AUM to AUMP growth, which is generally we expect around 70%, and most of these customers are upwards of 80%. The moderation has been less on the other customers that we have seen. Almost 70%-80% of the moderation has been because of the resetting of the yields that's happened in these two. We would have seen a much, you know, larger EBITDA number that you, that you're seeing now. Understood. Secondly, on your non-mutual fund business, this quarter, we saw an inch up to 12.5%. One, your target of reaching 20% over what duration? Secondly, if you can help us understand what is the margin profile that we have currently in the non-MF business, and what can this be, say, over the next two years? Devesh, we had said that, and this we had said about one year, take it as six quarters back, that we want to get to 20% non-MF contribution over four-five years. We think we are tracking well. We are tracking well to get to 20% in, let's say, the coming maybe 2.5-3 years, we will get there. Some of the increase that you found this quarter is obviously going to Think, because that revenue has come in for the first time. The rest you have seen because you've seen revenue growth, and I showed you the numbers. You've seen alternatives grow ahead, you've seen payments go ahead, and you've seen KRA go ahead. Over a period of time, there could be others which will grow ahead of company growth rate, which is where the contribution is coming from. From profitability perspective, some of those businesses are at company profitability levels. For example, AIF is certainly over 40% EBITDA. But at an aggregate, I would still put this non-MF business in the mid to higher 20s, which means that there are small, subscale businesses like account aggregator, et cetera, where obviously, we may not have large margins. Over a period of time, as we stabilize and grow this, and let's say, the current non-MF revenue, which is in the early to mid- 30s, will grow up to let's say, INR 50 crore a quarter. We are expecting all of this to converge to about a 35%-40% EBITDA. It will not be very different to company EBITDA levels. Some of the subscale businesses obviously, do not yield a lot of margin today, which is the reason why we are at the 20s. Just one more point to that, you know, we have constantly been saying that we will continue to invest in the new businesses. We specifically mentioned that last quarter was, when I say last quarter, I mean, the fourth Q of last year, was the quarter in which the gap between the income and the expense for the new businesses will be the largest. I'm happy to say that's been the case, because in this quarter, you know, we have really continued to spend this INR 6 crore per quarter on these new initiatives. But the revenue has started flowing in, although it is not at a scale that you'll probably get a higher margins. We are on the right track on that basis. We will get to a place where these also mimic the other platform-based business margins. Understood. The final one, sir, this Think Analytics, we acquired 55%. Are there plans to acquire the balance 45%, or this is how it will continue? No, the plan is that we've had the same playbook in both Setu, Fintuple acquisition, that we buy a little over majority, and then we have the call option over years three, four, and five. We want the founders to stay and continue growing the business, so a larger part of the pie for them will come in years three, four and five. That makes sure that the founders stay and scale the business. It gives us time so that we are able to create a management team which will be able to learn and operate the business once the founders choose to exit. It's a long exit period plan, unlike buy 100% upfront. In most of those cases, as you are aware, and you've seen many other companies, that the founders tend to exit after the second year. We don't want that. We have a call option, and obviously, we are expecting to own 100% of both these companies. Understood, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah, hi. Just, you know, sorry to harp on this yield question again. In your negotiations, are we seeing any change in the time, in the kind of telescopic structure that we have discussed in the past? Now that the rates are being set on the lower side, is the band being expanded with regards to the telescopic structure or it's still, it's still the same? The m-main thing is trying to understand as to, you know, whether we see if the AUM continues to grow, how much more fall can we see from the telescopic structure standpoint? For sure. Before we get to the telescopic structure, Prayesh, I just want you to be sure about one thing, which is that, what is given in all this? What is given is that there is a telescopic structure. We want the mutual funds to buy slightly cheaper as they grow, and we will sell slightly cheaper, and that depletion is part of the overall plan, so there's no change to that. However, the slightly steeper depletion that you saw in the last five or six quarters was due to a reason that we've given you. The answer to your question is that there is no change in these telescopic structures. They are more or less what they used to be. You have seen that we've had a very healthy cadence in incomes. Almost, you've seen that 30%-80% of the AUM growth turns into revenue growth from us, for us, that formula will broadly hold. Don't expect that yields are under any pressure. In fact, I would say that outside of the couple of contracts that we referenced, yields are holding very well across the portfolio for the last almost 1.5-2 years. Outside of the telescopic structure, we see no other stress. For the two contracts, the one contract that we are talking about, it was pre-meditated and agreed. Like we said, most of this impact has now been taken. What you will see is a small adjustment in, in 1 Q, which is the current quarter. Sorry, in 2 Q, after that, you will not see much. That's really the message overall on the yields profile. Got that. That's helpful. Secondly, If I look at your expenses, both operating expenses and the other expenses, I've seen a very sharp jump on a YoY basis. Even on a sequential basis, while operating expenses have increased, the other expenses have been flattish. But, you know, those operating expenses have been surging. What's the reason for that, and what kind of run rate we should look at it? Prayesh, the operating expenses, see, operating expenses for us, there is some variable component to it. Two things. For example, operating expenses, the major contribution for the increase has been out-of-pocket expenses, okay? Which is reflected in a similar number in the top line. There is the sponsored bank charge expenses. If you see the smart uptick that happened in the payment businesses, there's a corresponding variable cost that we incur by paying the banks. That's also been a part of this. The entire software cloud charges that we are investing in, right? The new businesses that are there are basically CRA or account aggregator or all those things are on cloud, and the tools that we buy are in operating expenses. These are expenses which are either variable or done from a overall business long-term perspective. Hence, you know, you will see a small uptick that keeps happening on the operating expenses even on a quarter-on-quarter basis. If you remove the OPE part of it, you know, and if you see the percentage of operating expenses, they are, generally, the operating expenses to be around 11% of main sales. If you remove the OPE part of it, because the same number is there in the numerator and denominator, we are required to account it as an income and expense. The operating expenses always are around 7.5%-7.8%, and that's the trend that's been holding throughout, right? Even if you see the last year or this year, it's been within this range of 0.5%, 7.5%-8% kind of a percentage, if you remove the OPE part of it. OPE is more kind of a compensating entry. From our other expenses, these are the real fixed expenses. These are the expenses on power and fuel, the legal, consultancy, et cetera. Largely, as you said, we have held this number. Last time in the earnings call, we again said that you will see only small inflation-driven increase, but overall, you know, you won't see a large increase. We stick to the same commentary. The only point that you note there is, you know, there is a lot of requirement now for an audit, right? For example, the PFRDA will recover a CMMI audit, there will be a VAPT audit that's required. All these are very expensive, there are three other things that we've done from an information security perspective. These, these expenses are in the base now. These were some things which are not there probably a year and a half or a year earlier, which are in the base now. There is all these things also, just recollect one thing, that they include the Think Analytics numbers. For example, the other expenses, you know, includes around INR 63 lakhs of Think Analytics numbers. We, we, for that, they would have been very flat or lesser. The operating expenses also includes around INR 65 lakhs of Think expenses. If you take that away, the, the increase a little more moderate. Two reasons. One is from operating, it's a variable, plus Think Analytics expenses coming in. Other expenses is broadly, the fixed expenses that you will see a small inflation-driven increase going forward. We, in the base, we have various other audits and information security-related audits, power and fuel. There is a big tariff increase that's happened in the state, which is causing a lot of increase from our power bills, too. These are that, the base now. Going forward, I don't think you will see such a big increase. Okay. On the, on the non-invest side, you know, on the e-insurance thing, you've mentioned that the digital loan assignment is a new service that you've started. What I'm trying to understand here, does this kind of give you additional revenue or it's part of the existing charges that you would get? Trying to understand whether from a longer term perspective, this could be an opportunity which will be, say, larger than the account opening for EIA charges. That is the question. Right now, you know, just like there is loan against securities and loan against mutual funds, loan against insurance is today an experimental product. Which means that as of now, it does not have IRDAI permission for people to go ahead with in this format, in the digital format. What we had done was, along with the regulator and a few key clients, we set up a sandbox, this is demonstrating the success of the sandbox. We have now applied to the regulator to allow us to convert this into a commercial product, which is where we are. When it gets converted to a commercial product, that will perhaps mirror the success of, let's say, loan against mutual funds. Of course, the scale could be bigger, but it will mirror the success of that. We are expecting to hear from them, let's say, in the next quarter or two, then there'll be enough commercial viability of this. Today, this is not a revenue source for us. Okay. Got that. Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good morning. Two questions from my side. First, you know, on the, on the new, deal wins, just wanted to get some sense. When you onboard these new customers, is there any front loading of cost that is associated with it? While obviously, I mean, I understand that, you know, this will be yield accretive from a medium-term perspective, I wanted to get some sense of the upfront cost from an at around 35%-40%. In the period when you kind of scale up these businesses and take them, take their share up from 13% of revenues, should be the overall, guessing a bit, or do you kind of expect some leverage benefits to play out in the domestic mutual fund business? Okay. Let me answer the second one first. If you take the last two years, and I'll give you order of magnitude, we've perhaps been investing annually in the range of INR 18 crore-INR 20 crore in the new businesses. This is essentially Account Aggregator and TSP as one, NPS as a second, MF Settle as a third, and some are in insurance. What started happening now is that we are seeing the color of revenue, which means some color of revenue. Let's say a business which had INR 20 crore cost and maybe INR 1 crore of revenue, will grow from INR 20 crore cost and INR 1 crore to INR 20 crore cost and, let's say, INR 4 crore revenue this year, and probably will grow to INR 7 crore or INR 8 crore next year. The gap between what we are spending and what we are earning will become narrower, and that should contribute to the overall profit pie of the non-MF businesses. At the peak, like we said, we have a steady-state shape in alternatives, which is making upwards of 40% EBITDA. We have payments which are making upwards of 30%, and then we have others. KRA would also be making close to 40% and above. When they become steady state and get to a certain mass, the expectation is, because the labor component will always be small, they will be platform-based businesses, and they have a steady kind of cost and revenue profile, they will get to 40%. You have two examples there. You have KRA and AIF, which are both in that range. You have payments, which is a lot more competitive. They're somewhere in the 30s, and then you have others, which may not be making margins today. What I have given you was an overall basket-level margin yield. As we continue the journey, obviously, there will be some profile improvement in the, in the scaled businesses, and the smaller ones, which are subscale, where we are actually investing money today, will start returning some additional revenue. So we're expecting that overall margin profile, if I have to give you a single line answer, is the margin profile of non-MF should improve from here, and therefore, at a company level, it will be a net contributor, slightly net accretive than net depletive. Dipanjan, on the first part, regarding new deal wins and if there is a front-loaded cost attached to it on the MF side? Right. On the new deal wins, what happens is that typically, when an AMC sets up business, of course, there is a lot of pre-setup work to be done. They get set up, and then they launch what is called a new fund offering. Typically, people come out with a single new fund offering, most of the times in equity. Most of the times, and don't take it as a rule, people will target, let's say, a INR 400 crore-INR 500 crore accumulation from that. A very successful first NFO could be INR 1,000 crore, but they're not very, very common. You have a new AMC, which comes in, we do the prep work, and then, obviously, we deploy all the technology and capability, which is getting them to plug into our platform, but doesn't really create a lot of cost. Of course, we have to employ that unit, and we have to employ a set of people. Let's say, starting maybe 12 to 15, 20 people will get into a unit. We'll wait for that INR 500 crore-INR 1,000 crore of AUM to happen, let's say, in year one. There will be a bit of a mismatch in terms of when that AMC becomes revenue accretive and when you put in costs, but those are not shattering numbers. Those are numbers that we can manage in the overall book quite comfortably. Sure. Thank you, Anuj. Thanks. Thank you. Before we move on to the next question, a reminder to all the participants. If you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. We'll take the next question from the line of Lalit Deo from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead, sir. Yeah. Good morning, sir, thank you for the opportunity. Just one question: On this Think Analytics business, so like, could you give us more color, like, how do we earn our revenue and in terms of the new contract, and what type, what kind of margins do we make in this businesses? When, when you think of Think, they, they come from a very different segment, although they are within financial services, largely catered to Fintechs, banks, NBFCs on the lending side, not so much in the capital markets. It's a very complementary operation. Four core products, Algo360, you saw that mentioned, is a core platform. We are perhaps one of the two in the country who offer a commercial service, where based on Android, SMS, inboxes, et cetera, information contained there, we give analytics based on what, what is the, what are the behavior of the person from a financial metrics point of view in terms of income, spending, investments, and a lot of related things. That's a very popular platform. That's product number one, for which you saw we mentioned things like SBI Cards and Kredit Bee to be the new entrants. Of course, there are many established customers. There is a second product called QuickID, which is basically a video onboarding, video KYC product, where you saw us mention Canara Bank as the third public sector bank in the country, which has joined hands with us. Of course, there are many other private sector clients, we chose to name just the three or four big ones. As you know, the paper-based KYC will continue to get displaced by video-based and electronic KYC, and that just creates significant scale opportunities for that product. There is a third product called FlowExpert, which basically helps companies integrate a number of external feeds coming through APIs in a straightforward way. It is, it's a new product, has about three or four installations. Then there is analytics, where we sell business intelligence kind of products and platforms to both the financial services industries in India and in the U.S., then we have a few pharma and healthcare clients, too. Those are the four product lines. The first three are, you can think of them as pure product. Analytics, you can think of it as a service, more a consulting and doing service, so it has attributes of service, which means it needs headcount. The others are typically product-based, the first three. From an acceptance perspective, you've seen some of the clients, and of course, if you go to the website, you'll be able to get a lot more view in terms of what they've done. A very, very promising young company, no debt, completely bootstrapped. From a public profile, award, recognition perspective, very common. Sure. Like, currently, yes, like, currently, like, just, like, what is the kind of revenue potential do we expect in this, business, like, going ahead over the next three-four years? Broadly, think of them as a company at a current year run rate of maybe INR 28-30 crore of revenue. Over a period of time, of course, we would expect it to grow in high double digits, so upwards of 20% on that base of INR 30 odd crore. In three-four years, you can expect that in a reasonable way, it should be at least a INR 50 crore operation, if not more. Sure. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Mr. Chandra Gupta, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello. Am I audible? Yes, please go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thanks for this opportunity. I just want to ask 1 question. It's about this slide number 36 that you have, you know, the proprietary technology platforms for, and mobile applications that you have mentioned. Have we explored the option of monetizing these platforms at any point of time, like, you know, outside India, of course, you know, like a software product company does? Could this be another revenue vertical for us? Is there such a potential? We have made a small attempt in the past to open up European office and one in the Middle East, too, and we had some success. We've been completely focused on India domestic right now. As you would see, we have one core business and about seven adjunct businesses, a couple coming from acquisitions, the rest are our own core business. We've chosen to focus on India domestic. Right now, we are not selling overseas, so there is no go-to-market attempt to sell these platforms overseas. Okay, it can become in future, if we choose to. I mean, if we decide to, then that, that's also possible in theory, yeah? Yeah, would certainly be possible. Think Analytics, by the way, has a small subsidiary, where we do, consulting contracts with financial services and healthcare people. That's a very new and a small part of the overall mix, so I didn't call it, and it has nothing to do with this chart. Just so that you know, there is a small amount of, U.S. revenue, but as far as this platform is concerned, right now, we are not selling it overseas. Okay. Okay. Okay, thanks a lot. Yeah, that's all from my side. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ramcharan, CFO of CAMS. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Seema. Thanks a lot to all the participants for your for your participation involvement in this earnings call and your continued interest in CAMS. In case of any questions, please please feel free to reach out to Anish Sawlani or to Orient Capital, who are our IR. Thanks once again for the time you spent. All right. Thanks a lot, Ram. Thank you, sir. On behalf of CAMS, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.