Ladies and gentlemen, good day, welcome to the Central Depository Services India Limited Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then 0 on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Ladies and gentlemen, please note that CDSL does not provide specific revenue or earnings guidance. Anything said on this call which reflects CDSL's outlook for the future or which could be construed as forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Praveen Agarwal from Axis Capital Limited. Thank you, over to you. Thank you, Rian. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this earnings call of CDSL. We have the entire management team of CDSL with us, led by Mr. Nehal Vora, MD and CEO. We'll start with a brief on the results from Mr. Nehal, and then we'll move on to Q&A. Over to you, sir, for opening remarks, please. Thank you. Thank you, Praveen. Good afternoon. Welcome, everyone. I hope each of you and your loved ones are safe and healthy. Thank you for joining us today to discuss CDSL's financial results for the fourth quarter and full year financial year ended March 31st, 2023. As in the previous quarters, we've posted a detailed financial presentation on our website for your reference. I'm joined by the CDSL group's leadership team. Let me start with the industry highlights and then take you through some of the key aspects of our performance. To begin, let me highlight the in-industry trends and then discuss some of our key performance aspects. During the financial year 2023, the capital market industry experienced a mixed performance. While certain sections continued to show a growth momentum, retail market participation remained muted as compared to the financial year 2022. The business environment in the Q4 was similar to the full year trends described above. In addition to these industrial developments, several new regulations were introduced during the year. We believe that these regulations will benefit the industry in the medium term, as they aim to protect the interests of the retail investors as well as the investors at large and reduce the systemic risk. Overall, we view these regulatory measures as positive for the industry's long-term growth. This quarter, India further strengthened its retail participation in Indian capital markets. The total number of Demat account investors in India touched a new milestone of more than INR 11.3 crore in quarter four of FY 2023. Of which INR 8.3 crore Demat account investors are registered with CDSL. The registered investors as on March 31st, 2022 was INR 6.3 crore, which shows an increase of 32% over the last year. We are harnessing the benefits of the digital innovation and the presence carved out across years, especially in the tier two and the tier three cities. The availability of digital services such as EDIS, margin pledge and repledge mechanism, EAGM and e-Voting and online account opening has had a significant impact on the growth of Indian retail investors. This is just the beginning, and our primary goal is to continuously enhance the financial ecosystem by making it more efficient and transparent. In terms of the performance, our strategy focus is on accelerating the core annuity income, simplifying the process of emerging investors and fostering new developments in the Indian securities market. CDSL is committed to growing its business sustainably by diversifying its revenue, investing in advanced technology and cultivating its people. As we celebrate our 25th year of operations, our focus remains on improving the financial ecosystem by enhancing its efficiency and transparency. We would like to prioritize and focus our Atmanirbhar Niveshak approach by striving for innovation, resulting in consistent and a healthy financial performance. We are dedicated in curating a secure financial ecosystem and providing a differentiated experiences that create value to our investors and stakeholders. Before I hand it over to Shri Girish Amachara, our Chief Financial Officer, I'd like to say that the growth of the Indian securities market is an extremely encouraging sign of India's potential. I also want to place our appreciation, gratitude to all our stakeholders, our regulators, depository participants, investors, issuers and other market participants and employees for their constant faith in us. With this, I would like to hand it over to our CFO, Shri Girish Amachara. Thank you, Nehal. Good afternoon to everyone. Speaking on yearly performance, total standalone income has increased by 13% for the year ended March 31st, 2023 at INR 544 crore as compared to INR 480 crore for the previous year. The net profit on a standalone basis is up by 3% to INR 272 crores as compared to INR 264 crore during last previous year. On a consolidated basis, the total income has increased by INR 15 crore to INR 620 crore. For the year ended March 31st, 2023, as compared to INR 606 crore for the previous year. The net profit on a consolidated basis is down by 11% to INR 276 crores as compared to INR 312 crores. Speaking on the quarterly performance, the standalone total income for the March quarter, March 2023 quarter, has increased by 3% to INR 112 crore, as against the previous same quarter previous year of INR 109 crore. The standalone net profit on a quarterly basis for the March quarter is at INR 52 crore as against INR 58 crore for the previous year, same quarter. On a consolidated basis, the total income for the March quarter has decreased by 3% to INR 144 crore as against INR 148 crore for the same quarter previous year. The consolidated net profit on a consolidated basis is at INR 64 crore for the March 2023 quarter as against INR 78 crore for the same quarter previous year. Now I shall request, Sri Sunil Alvares to give update about the operations of the wholly-owned subsidiary, CDSL Ventures Limited. Thank you. Over to you, Sunil. I would request that in case, you know, I think the numbers are already shared. We can start off with the Q&A session directly. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while we poll for questions. Our first question comes from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Managers Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah. A couple of questions from my end. You know, if I look at the CDSL Ventures, we've seen a revenue degrowth for almost, you know, all quarters during the year. You know, can you explain what is happening at a time when, you know, SIP flows are strong, new Demat accounts are strong? Is there pricing pressure? Is there, you know, some change in the business model? Is it competition? What is leading to this fall in revenues? You want to finish with your question and then- Sure. Sure, sure. You know, of the employee cost, we've seen, you know, a 60% increase in 2023. If you can share, you know, the fixed or variable nature of this to understand, you know, how would this move forward on a going forward basis. Lastly, what is the CapEx and technology spends done in 2023? These were my three questions. Okay. First one I'll ask Sunil to answer. The remaining two I'll ask the CFO, Girish, to answer. Sure. Yeah. If you see the KYC business, okay, there are two major sources of income. One is the creation side and the second is on the fetch side. Okay. The KYC business a lot depends on the state of the primary as well as the secondary markets. Okay? If you see last year, the number of IPOs reduced substantially as compared to the previous year. Okay? It had an impact on the number of new accounts being opened, that is Demat accounts and broking accounts. If you see overall stats, I think around the Demat accounts was impacted by, you know, about 35%. To that extent, I would disagree with you that though the monies were coming in SIP, but those were accounts which were already open and for which KYC is already done. To that extent, you know, the KYC part would have not got impacted. So far as new accounts are concerned, yes, definitely it has got impacted because the number of broking and Demat accounts has, you know. Well, we are saying the pace has slowed down, Sunil. What you're saying is if they were growing at a X%- What I'm saying is if the Demat accounts have gone down by about 30%-35%, then the KYC also has got impacted by about 25%, 25%-35%. It goes hand in hand. You can't have more KYCs unless Demat accounts open, you know. It's directly a function of the Demat accounts or the broking accounts which are open. That has impacted the number of KYCs and that has impacted the overall revenue. Okay. You know this, fetch thing because incrementally you're saying the flows are coming in the same folios in mutual fund and folio addition is not so strong, the fetch business also gets affected? Absolutely. We charge only a one-time on the fetch side. Once a record is fetched, it is free for the lifetime. Even if you're doing an SIP even if you fetch it, say, 12 times a year or 24 times a year, I have already charged you once and that is the end of it. Okay. There is no real pricing change or competitive intensity which is leading to this fall. It is just. There are pricing pressures on the creation side because so long as there is competition, they will try to pull your customers by offering lower charges. That, that's a part of, you know, market competition. That will go on anyway. Okay. Okay. In terms of employee cost, if you look at historically, CDSL employee cost was in single digit, if you compare previous years' expenditure to total revenue. Now it was 8% last year. This year it is 13%. If you recall previous two years were, you know, high growth year, our operations has almost increased compared to what it was prior to two years. In terms of that, we had plans to increase manpower base. Current year we have on a net basis, there is an increase in the employee strength of roughly 35 people. You know, typically, if you look at the SEBI regulations also, the bonus is 1/3 of fixed cost. Basically, that's how the, you know, categorization or the combination works. Right. Net addition of 33 employees during this quarter. to add- This year. Yeah. To add to what Girish said, the regulations don't allow any ESOPs... Right. granted. Obviously, to retain talent, you need to kind of appropriately compensate them to get the best of people and to retain them. Right. As compared to our comparison of employee cost, as a percentage of revenue, to other Market Infrastructure Institutions, we are one of the lowest. I think that continues even after this. We need to continue to retain talent to ensure that we get the best in class as a part of our structure. Sure, sure. Yeah. Girish, you mentioned, you know, employee cost. I think if I look at consolidated, they are almost 15% of sales. Is it some operating deleverage because, you know, subsidiary have not grown, so that is why also on a consolidated basis it looks higher than the standalone basis. Is that right understood? I gave you the details of consolidated basis. We always speak on consolidated basis. On a INR 551 crore, INR 555 crore revenue, employee costs were INR 80 crore, that's 15%, huh? Not 12% or 13%, which I think you mentioned. No, no. Its turnover on a consolidated basis is INR 620 crore. Okay. I think you are adding other income. I'm just taking income from operations. Maybe that's why. When I am comparing, I will always compare with total revenue. I will not compare it with operating revenue. Okay. Okay. Okay. Understood. On the last question on the CapEx side, if you could give some idea. What has been the CapEx trend in 2023? The CapEx expenditure that we have incurred is, you know, in line with, you know, the implementation strategy that we had implemented, and it is also driven by the regulator. I'll just take that question. I think it's driven more with the new-age regulatory reforms which we are bringing into place. Where there is, you know, basically the authorization happens at the depository end directly with the customer. Also bringing in sync with new hardware servers and the new tech infrastructure. As our volumes are growing, it has to kind of be in sync with that, the new-age technology. Also as our people are growing, we need more space. This is the two broad areas in which we are gonna be spending money in the cash. Right. If you quantify that amount, what we've spent in 2023? I will come back on that during the call. Sure. Sure. Sure. I'll join back if I have more questions. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Swarnab Mukherjee from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Three, four questions from my side. Firstly, on the employee expense, the discussion just happened, wanted to understand that this bonus cost that you have mentioned which is around about 1/3 of the fixed cost. Is this going to, is this prorated or provisioned over the years, over the fourth quarter, or will it come in disproportionately in the first quarter? Because I think last year first quarter also there seemed to be a bump in the employee expense. That is the first question. Secondly, I wanted to understand, so in the KYC business, what proportion of it will be coming from the Demat account opening, and what proportion will be coming from, say KYC for other financial products? Thirdly, if I had to understand, you know, if I have to make some color on, you know, how would be the number of folios that you have, say at the end of FY 23 or an average of over FY 23, which I mean what it was over 22 in the Demat accounts. Just to, you know, have an understanding of what, how the annual issue of charges could move. Not looking for a forward-looking statement, but since the year is over, you must already be having the details about number of folios that you have. Some ballpark number about growth will also do. That is the third question. Tech expenses then, are we kind of reaching, hitting the peak, or should we see kind of continued increase here also? These are the four questions. Yeah. I shall answer the first and fourth question first. On the employee cost, last year it was done in one quarter, additional bonus which the board had recommended. This year it is each quarter wise it has been pro-rated, that will how it is done. On the tech cost, it is a constant, because, see, we are in the business of providing infrastructure, technology is the key driving force and the key basically differentiator. Technology is something which needs to continuously evolve as we move forward. Based on that, this will be a process which we will continuously kind of assess and see as, and when it's required, we will be putting it in place. There is an entire maybe structure in place before we kind of go into play. But there will be continuous focus on ensuring that the technology is really up to speed with the latest and so that the ease of doing business as well as basically the efficiencies of business continue to remain with CDSL. I'll ask the second question on the KYC. I don't think we gave that details between the mutual fund folios as well as that, because it's kind of a consolidated number, and it's kind of basically difficult because there could be a single investor doing both in terms of a direct equity and mutual funds. As regards the folio, I'll ask the CFO what has been the increase over the last year as compared to this year. It's part of the presentation, but I think he'll just pull it out and. The number of folio, previous year it was, 7.68 crore, and this year it is 13.22 crore. I am saying 2021-2022 compared to 2022-2023. Okay. Sir, this growth, is it fair to understand that, if I only were to look at the listed corporates, this growth would be, fairly similar to previously? Is that fair? No, no. This is kind of a combination of both listed as well as unlisted space. This we'll continue to embark upon as we move forward. Maybe listed space are new kind of investors and, yeah, unlisted space, the companies are coming into the fold. In terms of overall, say, the share, number of folios in the listed space dominate the, you know, number of folios in the unlisted part of the company here? Because at least that's the number of shareholders. Yeah. Folios obviously would dominate in the listed space because the number of investors by its very definition has to be more than 250. In a unlisted, it's lower than 250 investors. Obviously by that very definition, the domination would be in the listed space. Sure, sir. Just again, quick follow-up on the KYC numbers. I understand that you don't give out growth details, but Would it be fair to, I mean, some kind of ballpark, say, 80% or 90% coming from Demat so that we can understand. It will be kind of difficult to assess because there are a lot of common ones which could be across both, the asset classes. It'll be difficult to come to a ballpark number on that. Can I take that question? What happens is when somebody fetches, we only tag that intermediary. That intermediary may be opening in direct, you know, fetching it for a Demat account, or for a broking account or for, you know, what do you say, the investors having some mutual fund investment. We only have a tag of the intermediary, so it's very difficult for us to figure out, you know, for what particular purpose the KYC has been fetched. Got it, sir. Very helpful. To Somanath, sir, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Senthil Kumar from Joindre Capital Services Limited. Please go ahead. Sir, good afternoon. I could see what capital work in progress of INR 173 crores. Can you please elaborate on that? What kind of investment is it? Yeah. I'll ask the CFO to answer that. Last year we have purchased two floors at the Marathon Futurex building. That represents the capital work in progress. The whole INR 173 crores, Amrit? Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay, good. My second question is on Insurance Repositories business. Now where are we when compared to the last year, even though in the last con call the management said, like, now we are in the early stage of implementation. Any strategies to improve gain market share in that? Yeah. There is a move towards. We have already recruited a professional MD and CEO. He's in the process of joining, and there'll be a management team which will get created. However, the regulatory changes are also at the cusp of change. It's yet on a voluntary basis. It's yet not been converted into a mandatory basis. There is definitely a value proposition both from an investor as well as from an insurance company point of view. As the market evolves and matures, they will understand the key, basically benefits to it, and that will move towards that. Also the, basically the regulator is also looking at it very closely, and is going to come out with the necessary policy formulations as soon as they feel it is required. Any timeline for that? When can we expect? I can't predict how the regulator will come out with the policy formulation. We are in constantThat whatever inputs they need, we are giving them. That is up to them to finalize when they will come out. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Karthik Chellappa from Indus Capital Advisors (Hong Kong) Limited. Please go ahead. Hello. Thank you very much for the opportunity, sir. I have three questions. The first one is, despite the strong growth in our depository accounts, the revenue growth still seems to be challenged, especially on the transaction charges side. Apart from lower retail participation, which you alluded to at the beginning of the call, are there any other factors at play which is impacting revenue growth? Yeah. Basically the delivery volumes, of the exchanges, which drives the market-based, in transactions. Over the last financial year, there has been a reduction at about 33% of the delivery-based volumes on these exchanges. That kind of explains the reduced charges or the revenue for the depository because it's only when it culminates into a delivery, that is when the charges are paid to us as a depository. Got it. Apart from that, there is really no rate reduction or any sort of competitive pressures which are at play which is causing this. It's just purely volume driven? Yeah, yeah. It's purely volume driven. Exactly. Okay. Excellent. The second question is on the technology spends which you alluded to, where you're saying you are continuously you need to assess the volume and the requirement and enhance the spends. If you were to bifurcate the spends between those which are directly related to higher volumes versus a different kind of technology, what would that split be if you were to do that for your total spends? We kind of, we have already created that framework which makes the infrastructure really scalable. It is done with the exponential growth which we've seen in the number of Demat accounts over the last two to three years. So from that spend is more or less done. However, there is a constant assessment done and bringing in value proposition more at really the application stage on how basically the transactions are getting reprocessed so that really the throughput time comes down. It can handle scale. There is a complex web of various kind of technological basically inputs which are put into place, which kind of really assess that where we need to spend on the application side, on the hardware side, depending so that the basically the stakeholders will continue to enjoy ease of doing business and a value really proposition remaining with CDSL. To ask it in a different way, if I just look at the fourth quarter exit number of about INR 10-11 crore of computer-related OpEx, would annualizing that be more or less in line with, let's say, what you're thinking subject to volume changes? Future, it'll be difficult for me to predict that. I can assure you that there is a very robust process of spend which is done in terms of what is absolutely essential is getting spent. There is a framework. As a company, we don't give future kind of guidance. I'll have to kind of not be able to answer that question. Got it. The last question, sir, is you mentioned that you have now reached about 83 million accounts out of, let's say, about 113 million, which implies a market share of somewhere close to 72%-73%. Yeah. Which means on an incremental market share basis, it's even higher. Would it be fair to say that with growth more or less moderating or normalizing, the market shares have more or less peaked for you? Difficult to again say about the future, because three years ago we were at 46%, and at that time also somebody could have said that this is kind of, kind of an optimum level at which, both, basically the market will function. There has been a surge which has happened. Again, market is really a dynamic place. Difficult to really predict whether you've reached or not. My intent is, and I think overall the ecosystem is about 6%-7% of the population is only yet in the securities market. The market at large is, has a huge potential to grow. Whether that growth happens in the next one year, two years, three years, five years, 10 years, that is for something which we will have to see. There is a potential, and I am not looking at what is the current trend. It's more of the potential which is yet not come into the market. India is a young population, we are adding youngsters and a large middle class into our population every year. There is a huge potential which is there. Just one follow-up, sir, based on the response which you gave. If you were to look at unique accounts at a household level, what will it be on a household penetration level? That again will be a little difficult to answer because people have sometimes have more than one account also, which is permissible under the law. Sometimes they are in basically-they are in joint holder with a family member. Again, each household is depending on how many people are there also. It's difficult to really assess how much will be the penetration from a household level. I can say that today CDSL is about 98% of the PIN codes of the country where the Demat accounts is there. There's a fairly comprehensive spread in where the CDSL Demat accounts are. Got it. That's all from my side. Wishing you and the team all the very best. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Prithibesh Uppal from AMSEC. Please go ahead. Yeah, sir. Thank you for taking my question. The first question I had was just to follow up on the transaction income that we report. Again, for this quarter, we've seen that, you know, per Demat account realization has, you know, it was roughly averaging close to about INR 24, then it has gone down substantially. I mean, I understand one reason you mentioned is the fact that there has been lower re-tail market participation. Despite, you know, a higher increment in terms, especially in this quarter in incremental Demat accounts, is it fair to, you know, assess that the amount of per Demat account transactions has also reduced substantially? Do we expect, you know, this kind of, you know, this, I mean, the number to sort of be the kind of new normal? Because last two years, the per account, you know, number of transactions would have obviously peaked for us. So do you know, have you seen that this has come back to sort of pre-COVID level? So that would be our first question. Second question is in terms of the uses of cash. Uh, you know, so apart from the investments that, uh, uh, we make, and, the dividend, that we've been declaring, any other, you know, cash uses that you see in terms of, you know, for, for from a growth perspective, y ou know, any, any color on that or, that you could, you could, you could give? And third, you know, this been talked about on previous calls, which is the pricing, you know, on issuer charges from 11 rupees. So, you know, any discussion, the from, from the regulator where this is, you know, how the, how the conversation is? So just these are my three questions. On the first one, it's not only, as I said in my the reply to an earlier question, it's the delivery-based volume. If you see the delivery-based volumes has seen a reduction of about 31% over the last year. That is really, this is a key reason. Whether we have reached a peak or not, is very difficult to assess because it's your market, functions as to what is the volumes which are going to... It's very difficult to predict volumes in the coming years. Therefore, the important thing is create the right toolkits, right, value proposition so that, it is there to support any as we move forward. Your second question was, I'm sorry. Could you repeat your second question? Yeah. It was to do with, you know, the operating cash flow that we are generating. Yeah. So, uh- Yeah. Yeah. On that. Operating cash flow is, you know, we are finally an infrastructure company, so the strength of the balance sheet becomes very critical as more and more assets and more and more Demat accounts are added to your fold. It kind of gives that comfort factor. There are areas of growth both in the securities markets and in the other markets where we have our subsidiaries. There is a constant endeavor as India embarks upon its journey of digitization. More and more products and platforms are going to come into fore, which will require that kind of in-investment both in terms of systems, technology, and people, to ensure that we are kind of basically in sync with what the reforms are getting in this. We have just added our basically account aggregator model where we have gone live as a financial information provider. That's a new line of business which CDSL has recently and it's the first depository to go live. That's one. Second is also the other sectors like the commodities repository and the insurance sector. This is something which we continuously kind of would need to assess as we move forward. We have had a consistent dividend payout which has been consistent over the years. It's 60% of about 60% of the operating profits which gets or is it a net profit which gets paid out as dividend. Okay. Yeah. Just on the last question, the pricing That will be difficult to comment because normally we don't disclose the SEBI conversations. It's kind of confidential. That's the kind of process which we will follow. If we as and when, and whichever form it gets up to, that will get promptly communicated to the market. Okay. Just lastly, just a data question. You mentioned the folio number to earlier participants. Just missed the number. Can you just, if you could just repeat that, please. It's part of the presentation is uploaded on our website. It will become easier. We can repeat it, but I think it'll be easier for you to just look at that. Okay. If you want, I can just. In financial year 2021-2022, we had a folio count of INR 7.68 crore. For financial year 2022-2023, we had a count of INR 13.72 crore. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. That's it from us. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments. Please go ahead. Hello? Yeah, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Yeah. I just wanted to know, recently you came out and you mentioned in your previous statement about the account aggregator model. Can you explain in detail how do you plan to go ahead and how does it benefit CDSL? No, the account aggregator model is where basically the information flow from various sectors, be it banking, insurance, securities market, can be accessed based on client's consent and given to a information user who can curate the data and give it to him in a structured format. There are various components which are expected to be added to it, be it basically the income tax, GST, et cetera. It's a common information flow framework which is client consent-based, and that's where we are part of the larger ecosystem. Does it have a effect? This is data monetizable or how it is? How does it help us in the future? It's kind of really early days as to how the commercials will get factored in, but there will be some amount of commercials which will come in at some stage. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Vivek Sethia from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Oh, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. In our last call, you had mentioned some numbers about CDSL Ventures, their financials, the creations, the fetches. If you could just help me with those numbers for Q4 or FY? Total income, annual issuer income that we have clocked during this financial year is INR 183 crore as against previous year income of INR 115. CDSL. CDSL. Okay, CDSL. In case of CVL, we have clocked the income of INR 87 crore during this financial year as compared to INR 120 crore of previous financial year. The profitability? It's actually all there on our website. You may actually look at it. We have put all the numbers on the presentation also. The presentation, I don't think there are these numbers in the presentation, neither creation nor fetches. I've been looking at the presentation, so. Yeah. In terms of presentation, we have creation fetch. Normally, you know, we just give as a broad trend. Finally it has to culminate into revenue. That is more typical. From, again, a financial disclosure point of view, we are more focused on how it culminates into basically the revenue. I think that would be a fair reply to your question. Okay. The other components of other income like eCAS, e-voting, if you could give out the number of those. There in the presentation. I will still repeat. Do you want on quarterly basis or you want full year? Anything will do. On a quarterly basis, we have, we have closed transaction charge at INR 33 crore. Online data charge, which is CVL income, at INR 22 crore. IPO corporate action at INR 7 crore. Annual issuer income at INR 47 crore. Cash and e-voting put together at INR 9 crore. This constitute almost 96% of our total operating revenue. Okay. The pledge income? I don't think we give that pledge income separately, right? It's part of the transaction income. Okay. Okay. Just wanted to understand about your outlook, like going forward. Like, are we completely dependent on the growth in the retail participation or, like, how are we planning to grow our business? Will it be purely volume-driven going forward or, are we looking into other avenues as well? Yeah, what's the outlook like? No, I think. See, again, future outlook we don't give as a policy, but I can just give. Not in terms of numbers, but just a strategic. Yeah. I'll tell you, it's important that we are going to continue to invest in technology because the entire digital journey is something which is going to grow as we move forward. CDSL is going to be at the forefront of that journey, both from a ease of doing business, from a investor protection point of view, making investors self-sufficient, so giving more to the investors to take decisions themselves. That's going to be our cornerstone of our entire focus. Obviously we will be kind of part of the Market Infrastructure institutional framework which SEBI has prescribed. That is something which we'll continue to really embark upon. As more and more new policies, products, and platforms get permitted by SEBI, CDSL would be as a part of that framework. Okay. Thanks. Thank you so much. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Sanket Ghoda from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just two data points if you can give the ops providing cost in the current quarter. Second, just we wanted to understand that the corporate action income is usually weak in the fourth quarter. Is that a fair assumption to make, sir? I'll answer the second question first, and I'll ask the second question to be first question will be answered by the CFO. Normally the AGMs technically occur in the second and third quarter. It means if it gets extended, otherwise it's the first and second quarter. It is kind of connected with, it will be AGM. It's a kind of a broad trend that you see major income happening in the first, second, and when it gets extended like it has been done in the past two years to the third quarter also. I'll request Girish to answer the first question. In terms of data solution, there is a reversal of INR 2.14 crore. Okay, sir. Two questions with respect to the business here. Just KYC for insurance companies, especially the general insurance companies, was made mandatory from January 2023. You know, we just wanted to understand that this revenue is somehow flowing to the our insurance repository business if we are doing the KYC for insurance companies or is it done through CKYC predominantly and therefore we are not accreting any revenue with respect to KYC on insurance, which is being made mandatory from 23. No, there was a draft circular which was proposing to make it mandatory. It has not converted itself into a final circular, so it yet remains in a draft stage. As of now it is not mandatory, it is optional. No, sir, conversion into Demat format is voluntary, yes. The KYC has been made mandatory from first January, sir. Just wondering, the KYC income flow is somehow getting affected in our insurance repository income or not? Sir, this KYC that you're talking about is for the policy, for the creation of the policy, for the existing policy, which is handled by the insurance companies themselves. Bulk of the policy is stored in the physical form. This doesn't come to the depository space in terms of our group company CDSL for the reason that. Yeah, right. it is part, CL or CVM, because it is, it's a physical form. This KYC is done by the insurance companies internal. Okay. You mean to say that when the depository or Demat format becomes a reality, compulsory, not voluntary, then you have two revenue sources, one is KYC income probably, and second is the repository in terms or Demat? That is normally how this business works. There is both sides business which is potentially expected to flow. It depends as and when it is made mandatory. Got it. Sir, next, second, last one from my side. Is that this account aggregator, FIP, what are the charges we are going to charge for FIP as a financial in this information provider? Finally, do we want to get into PSA, that the secondary service provider thing or we just wanted to remain a FIP providing a financial information to the guys who ask for it? The commercials, as I said earlier, it's early days, it's yet not yet finalized. It's in the process of first really establishing the framework and then the commercials will kind of follow. That is for us to wait and watch in the future. CDSL will continuously assess which part of the account aggregator model. The FIP was mandated by the regulator, and we are kind of the first depository which have done it. Whether we are part of the account aggregator model, and the FIU, that the financial information user model, is something which we will have to really assess as the system really grows and matures. Okay, sir. Perfect. Perfect. Thanks. Thanks for answering the question. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Sujal Azare, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon. Am I audible? Yes, please. Yeah. My first question was that, IRDA, IRDAI mandated the dematerialization of new insurance policy. I guess that you have answered in previous question, so that's not an issue. I just wanted, I'm a naive investor, so I just wanted to ask you, what are the key revenue drivers in your company of CDSL? Okay. Basically there are three principal revenue drivers. One will be for Demat accounts, the transaction revenue. Every debit is charged by the depository, so that's a revenue charge. Second is the companies which are dematerialized or whose shares are dematerialized, they ask an annual fee. That's the second charge. The third is the Know Your Customer. There's a repository in which our subsidiary CDSL Ventures is there. That's the third source that for every creation of a Know Your Customer or a fetch by anybody in the system, there's a charge with CDSL there. These are the three principal charges. Besides that, there is for the annual general meetings we've conducted through our online mode, so we charge companies for that, the value-add service. There is a e-Voting platform which we have, so that is the other area where we charge. These are principally the broad areas of the revenue for CDSL. Which, which is the most revenue-giving, like, factor of all of this which you stated? I would recommend, you know, there is a fairly easy to comprehend presentation on our website, which will give you not only what is the comparison, how has the growth been over the years. It's a fairly, pictorially, represented presentation. It'll be easy for you to understand. Any follow-on questions, feel free to email us, we will give you a reply. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Managers Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah. If that CapEx figure is available, I just wanted to know that. For a consolidated basis, we have capitalized INR 35 crore, as an capital expenditure. On a standalone basis, we have capitalized INR 22.5 crore. Thanks. Thanks, Dheeraj. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Vinitha Sagar from Infosys. Please go ahead. Vinitha, your line is unmuted. You could speak your question. Since there's no response... Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one. Our next question comes from the line of Vinitha Sagar from Infosys. Please go ahead. Since there is no response, we move on to our next question, which is from the line of Rajesh Kachara from Informus. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello. My question is with regard to the Q4 transaction charges trend in that. You mentioned that it is based on the debits that take place and it's linked to the delivery volume, obviously. I wanted to understand 2 things from this. One is key, what was the trend in the delivery volume in Q4 versus the year-ago quarter? Secondly, I wanted to understand if the per debit charges that are applied is it based on the value of the trade, which is where the debit is taking place? Is it based on per debit that is going on a fixed charge? Is it based on the number of shares that are getting debited? Just wanted a clear understanding of this. Thank you. The first question is, there's a 31% reduction in the year-on-year delivery volume across exchanges over the previous financial year, and as compared to this financial year ending. That has gives you an overall trend that why there has been a lower transaction revenue. The second question is that we charge on a per debit basis. However, it's really a slab-wise approach. A person who is a frequent user of the system has to pay a per debit lower charge compared to a infrequent user of the system. It ranges from INR 5.50 per debit to INR 4.25 per debit, depending on the number of transactions which you are doing. It is not linked to the number of shares or the value of the number of shares. It is per debit instruction where the charges are done. Okay. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity again. Sir, in the past, you have disclosed the annual issuer charges broken down into listed and unlisted, similarly, you used to give the pledged margin income or pledge income in the transaction. It will be great if you can share this time too. The first one, we never used to do it, listed and unlisted. I think pledge is what the CFO tells me that, they do disclose. This quarter we have done a income of INR 3 crore. Okay, sir. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Nehal Vora for closing comments. I would like to thank you for all your questions and continue to remain safe and secure. Take care. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect.