Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 FY 2024 Results Investors Conference Call of Dabur India Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Gagan Ahluwalia. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Ahluwalia. Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the management of Dabur India Limited, I welcome you to this earnings conference call pertaining to results for the quarter and year ended March 31, 2024. Present here with me are Mr. Mohit Malhotra, Chief Executive Officer, Dabur India Limited; Mr. Ankush Jain, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. N. Krishnan, DGM Finance, along with Ms. Isha Lamba, who has joined us at Dabur, as Head, IR and FP. We will start with an overview of the company's performance by Mr. Mohit Malhotra, and this will be followed by a Q&A session. I now hand over to you, Mohit. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome you to Dabur India Limited's conference call pertaining to the results for the quarter and the year ended 31st of March, 2024. During the quarter, the operating environment was largely in line with what has been in the preceding quarters, with some uptake in rural consumption, which grew ahead of urban for the first time in last three years. The input cost environment has been largely benign as deflationary trends continued in quarter four. The currency devaluations continued across emerging markets, impacting translated growth in INR. Climate changes marked by uneven weather patterns, such as unseasonal rainfall, delayed and contracted winters, impacted our seasonal portfolio. We remain optimistic of the gradual uptake in consumption trends over the course of next fiscal year, considering normal monsoon, improving macros, and lower inflation. In this volatile environment, Dabur delivered a resilient performance. Our consolidated revenue grew by 10% in constant currency terms and 7.6% in INR terms during financial year 2024. India business, including Badshah, grew by 7.7%, backed by volume growth of 5.5%, and international business registered a growth of 16.4% in constant currency terms. Our operating margin for the full year reached 19.4%, which is in line with our guidance. On a like-to-like basis, the operating margin was 20.2%, an increase of 130 basis points. We continue to see the market share gains in 95% of our portfolio for the full year and also in the quarter. During quarter four, the company recorded consolidated revenue growth of 7.3% in constant currency terms and 5.1% in INR terms. Our India business, including Badshah, reported 5.6% growth, backed by volume growth of 4.2%. Consolidated gross margin expanded by 280 basis points, and operating margins were up 14% year-over-year. Profit after tax recorded a growth of 16.2% during the quarter. In terms of categories, FMCG portfolio recorded 8.1% growth during financial year 2024. I will now cover each of the sub-segments in detail. Oral care. Our penetration has reached 52%, with every second household consuming Dabur oral care product, we are nationally the number two player in oral care category and becoming gradually number one in many of our geographies. With Odisha, Karnataka, and AP, we are already number one there. Our strategy of driving herbal category, with Dabur Red being the core, is working well for us. Home care continued a strong double-digit growth trajectory for financial year 2024, led by Odomos and Odonil. We saw our market shares in mosquito repellent cream category expanding by 600 basis points, and in air freshener category, it expanded by 260 basis points. In line with our strategy to increase total addressable market for Odomos and Odonil, we have forayed into liquid vaporizers and Odonil gel formats. In the hair care category, Hair Oil gained 115 basis points market share during the year. Our strategy of building Dabur Amla and flanker brands is yielding good results. Our shampoo portfolio is continuing its growth momentum, and this year we registered a growth of 8%, led by the Vatika franchise. In skin care, Gulabari grew by around 18% in the year, led by premiumization initiatives and extending the franchise into adjacent categories like body washes. The healthcare portfolio grew by 4.2% in financial year 2024, led by Digestives category, which witnessed a strong growth of around 16%, led by Hajmola, and consequently, our market share in the Digestive category increased by 210 basis points. In OTC and ethical vertical, market share in Haridra and Lal Tail increased by 114 and 70 basis points, respectively. Due to the delay in contracted winter, our health supplement portfolio got impacted and was flattish. However, we have continued to consolidate and gain market share in Chyawanprash and Honey. We are undertaking multiple initiatives like newer formats, doctor advocacy, all-weather communication to enhance consumption, relevance, and penetration of health supplements. Our beverage portfolio was flat during the year on account of unseasonal rains during the peak summer season. However, the foods business, which includes culinary product under our Hommade brand, recorded a stellar growth of 23.2%. Badshah business reported a 23.3% growth during the year, with gain in market shares. Emerging channels like e-commerce and modern trade are the fastest growing channels, driving urban growth and contributed to 19%-20% of the India business. Our digital spends have gone up to 30% of our total media spends. Distribution expansion is a key growth lever. We have expanded our reach to 1.22 lakh villages through 22,000 Yodhas. Direct reach of the company has gone up to 1.42 million outlets, and total reach is at all-time high of 79 lakh outlets. We have added 200,000 outlets during the year, the highest addition among all FMCG peers. Therapeutic division, which is our doctor advocacy vertical, is scaling up well, and we now cover around 110,000 Ayurvedic and allopathic doctors, with turnover of more than INR 120 crore. International business grew at 16.4% in constant currency in financial year 2024, led by strong growth in Turkey, which grew by 52%, Egypt that grew by 46%, MENA markets that grew by 12%, and Sub-Saharan Africa that grew by 15%. However, we lost 2.5% of our top line due to currency devaluations. Let me now talk about profitability. Our gross margins expanded by 240 basis points during the year and 280 basis points during the Quarter Four, on account of deflation and cost-saving initiatives under Project Samruddhi. We remain steadfast in investing behind our brands, as, and as a result this year, we have increased our spending in A&P by 33%. Our consolidated operating profit grew by 14% during the quarter and 11% in financial year 2024. Adjusted for Namaste legal costs, our operating profit grew by 16% in Quarter Four and 15.2% in financial year 2024, touching 20.2%, almost near to pre-COVID levels. Our PAT grew by 16.2% in Quarter Four and 7.9% in financial year 2024. Adjusted for Namaste legal costs and Badshah monetization, PAT saw a growth of 22.7% in the quarter and 16.8% in financial year 2024. We are optimistic that with the expected normal monsoon and improving macroeconomic indicators, government spending, lower inflation, FMCG demand will see a gradual uptick, primarily driven by rural that augurs well for Dabur. We will continue to drive profitable growth across our business verticals, backed by investments in our distribution network, brands, manufacturing, digital and organizational capabilities. With that, I conclude my address and open the floor for any Q&A. Thank you. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Avnish Roy from Nuvama. Please go ahead. Yeah, congrats on the good set of numbers. My first question is on beverages. So I understand the high base and unseasonal rains in March month. My question is, if I see even full year, your dip is in fact around 2% and dip is there even in this quarter. So wanted to understand Q1, very harsh summer projected. So would you see strong double-digit growth here coming back? And what would be your target for the full year also? Because the base here is -2%. And what could have gone here better? Because there are other beverage players who are growing much faster. They may not be competing head-on, but they are broadly in the same segment on the overall level. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Avnish. Yeah, so overall, I think beverage was a kind of a muted performance last year. It's coming on a high base, like you rightly said, and it could have been better. But during the peak of summer, we saw unseasonal rains, therefore, out-of-home consumption got impacted and therefore juice consumption also got impacted. So that was the first quarter issue, and subsequently, also we had some supply chain problems also. We were gearing up our manufacturing in the new plant in Indore, et cetera. So there were some hiccups in supply chain. Going forward in next year, I think if the summer is what it is now, what you see summer is in Delhi and Bombay, but we see in the some northern parts of the country, fall is still persisting and some snowfall is still happening in Kashmir area. So which is a very high per capita consumption market. But if weather remains, our beverage business should fire and we have taken a target of double-digit growth for the full year going forward for the beverage business. And we've seen in the past also. So as we go through number of years, if there's a one year down, next year, the business kind of bounces back for us. So we are hopeful that if the weather supports us, then the beverages as a portfolio should do well for us. And we've also already made an entry into drinks and aloe vera, so we are very well prepared in terms of augmenting our capacity also to feed the marketplaces. Sure. Thanks, sir. My second question is on Badshah. So, one is on the industry leaders like the top two players; they are facing ethylene oxide issue in SGHK. So does that open opportunity for you? And second, if industry leaders are facing this kind of an issue, is there a risk that given raw material sourcing could be fairly common in terms of the channels, would you also face that kind of a risk? And second is for Badshah, how do you see growth in FY 2025? I understand a lot of pricing growth has happened in the second half of the year. How do you see margins? Have you passed on fully, and how do you see overall sales growth in FY 2025? Right. So first is this, burning issue of, ethylene oxid e. Now, there are two regulatory bodies, which, as we see it. There is a domestic regulatory body and there's the international regulatory body. The domestic regulatory body being FSSAI. So whatever mandated regulatory norms of FSSAI are there, we are following those norms, and, ethylene oxide is not a part of their norms. So we don't give any irradiation to our product when we are servicing the domestic market with this at all. So as far as domestic is concerned, we are conforming with the regulatory norms of the law of the land, which is FSSAI. As far as the international business is concerned, there is the Spices Board India, and all our batches go through proper screening in the Spices Board India before we send it to any one of the export markets. During these export markets, ethylene oxide is generally radiated to prevent any microbial growth in the Spices Board India with certain limits, and we are within those prescribed limits of the Spices Board. EU very recently has reduced the limits drastically, and that's why the problem happened with the market leader, like it happened. But we guys are within the prescribed limits of them. So we think that we are on the safer side. Whether it opens the opportunity or not, as of now, nothing from our portfolio has been caught or highlighted. So to that extent, there could be a limited, I think, upside, which could happen if the competitor is under the dark. But I wish them well also, and I hope this issue is behind the entire industry and the whole market should grow because market is fairly unbranded, and there is a huge opportunity to brand the market and the opportunity to grow in international and also in the domestic. As far as Badshah growth is concerned, we grew by 20%+ last year. Partially, it came from price and partially it came from volume. Going forward, as now deflation, not deflation, but a muted inflation sets in, now we have a single-digit, sort of inflation. Last year it was double-digit inflation, and so some pricing things happened. Some rollback of prices is what we have initiated also to spur the volume growth. Overall, we've taken a value growth of more than 20% in Badshah because there's a huge upside which is there in geographical expansion and international expansion and our portfolio growth in terms of entire revamp happening. And just to allay your fear on the quality, we have also constructed a micro lab, which was earlier missing when we acquired the company. It's now in action, and we are sterilizing all our export batches. Sterilization is a preferred method of sanitizing your entire produce. So we are doing steam sterilization, unlike other competitors, radiating into the ethylene oxide. I hope I answered your questions. And as far as margins are concerned, we think the margins in Badshah will expand next year because of a little lesser inflation, and we have taken price increase. Also, a little rollback will happen, but pretty much I think margin expansion will happen. So we've taken a higher growth in bottom line as compared to top line in terms of targets that we give to the team. Sure. My last question will be on oral care. All the three listed players seem to be doing well, at least this quarter. You grew 22% on a soft base of -3. HUL saw good double-digit growth, and market leader also is likely to report a strong double-digit growth in this part of the business. So I wanted to understand, is the number four player losing market share? Second, is South India leading the charge here, or is it broad-based growth, which is delivering this kind of a double-digit growth? Third is, could this be a precursor to revival in other FMCG categories? Because this kind of a growth for the full year, also double digit, for this quarter, also strong double digits. Why other categories are not showing for you and for the other companies also? So could this be precursor for revival in other categories? Yeah, okay. So first thing, I think the entire category of oral care is showing an uptake. If you look at the oral care category, which is 90% penetrated in the country, is growing at around 7.5%, which is a very good growth as compared to the FMCG market, which is growing at around 6 odd%. So it's actually growing ahead of the FMCG market. So oral care is doing well. Now, all the players, I think, secularly are doing well. I would not say the fourth player, we are getting market share at the cost of the fourth player. While we see a fourth player under the radar, I think we are on the same page on referring to the fourth player that you're saying. But, he's also gaining market share in the oral care category, is what we see. In addition, in line with Unilever and GSK and Colgate, and so are we. We've gained around 20 basis points in oral care. Now, all the three brands are doing well. Our herbal toothpaste, which is the new foray, we've already clocked a turnover of more than INR 11 crore-INR 12 crores in that also, although it's just a modern trade and selective grocery launch, that is doing well. Our gel that we introduced last year has already clocked a turnover of INR 40-odd crores, and that's to us, a good success in the oral care category. Our Dabur Red has grown by around 25%-26% in value and volume base. That's also done well, and market shares have kind of inched up. This growth is happening secularly across most geographies and more in South India skewed. Because for us, at least, Dabur Red is more skewed towards South India, and it's doing well there. Our South India market is also doing well, per capita income is being higher and people preferring more functional products in South India, so that's doing well. Now, is it a precursor to other categories also showing green shoots and therefore growing? To me, I can't answer with great conviction, but in terms of our categories, I think it is, because even the hair oil category in the last quarter has grown by around 8%. If you have syndicated data to go by, hair oils as a category has grown by 8% in value. Dabur has grown by around 12% in value, and which is very unlike a hair oil business going up. That actually is an illustration of the fact that rural growth is kind of coming back because it is rural. In Nielsen also, we've seen 120 or 150 basis points of movement in rural India. While urban growth is kind of, you know, almost remains same or a little bit calmed down, but rural growth is kind of picking up, and that's happening sequentially in two to three months that we have seen. But if you actually trend it back, rural growth, we have seen rural growth from -5, gradually, slowly, now it has become +6, almost now, 120-130 basis points ahead of urban. So rural took time to come back after COVID. So after almost three years of time, we are seeing that rural ahead of urban. I hope it is more structural in nature and not one-off blip that we see. With the infrastructure spending of the government and all the initiatives is happening, and monsoon also seem to be normal going forward, I think this should augur well for all of us and overall FMCG space. One small follow-up on the market share, which you mentioned. So the top four or five players in toothpaste will be around 90% market share. So if all are doing well, the tail of 10% is too small, right, for others to report a double-digit number or market share gain. So if you could clarify, in the last six months, out of the top three listed players and maybe even the number four, who has grown faster in terms of market share? Who has lost market share, if that's available? Yeah. So I don't remember the numbers offhand, but I think Patanjali would have gained market share, and they have been gaining market share consistently. Colgate in my mind has lost market shares. I'm talking volumetric market shares now. So Dabur has gained market shares. Himalaya has lost a bit in terms of market share, and GSK has gained value market shares, and they have gained volume market shares on back of Sensodyne. So that's the... Smaller players would have gone down, and there would have been consolidation because there's a lot of ATL spending also by the organized players, which have kind of spurred up the growth of the category, and also will lead to shrinkage in other players going down, because distribution ramp up is also happening by the organized players. And that's my sense. Sure. Thanks a lot, Mohit. Very useful. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mihir from Nomura. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good evening. Congrats on a good set of numbers. Thank you for taking my question. So my first question is actually on the macro front. You did mention rural is showing signs of recovery, and it has been growing at about six odd%, you mentioned. However, when we see your volume growth and the volume growth for other organized players is lower than the industry volume growth, indicating that the unorganized guys are, you know, clawing back share that they lost in the past two years. How should one think about this, you know, trend going forward? Mm-hmm. Should one expect rural recovery to continue and organized players also to benefit, or there will be a phase where organized players... Rural will improve, but organized players will not be a key, key beneficiary of this rural recovery? So that's question one, sir. Yeah. So I think, overall, now, this is a very short timeframe. As I was telling you, in three years' time, rural has just come back, in, like, two, three months, regularly, one after the other. And if these numbers are anything to go by, I think rural recovery should continue because there was such a long hiatus of, rural lagging urban. So it should continue, and, that should be well for the entire industry. I think, you know, it's a wave, and this wave will continue for some time, and it will take all boats up. So like they say, both organized and also unorganized. So one thing is, I think, organized players generally, get better dividends when this happens, because we have better infrastructure investments put in place. I talk about Dabur here now. We are ahead of the curve, have put in a lot of infrastructure investments. Our villages have gone up from 1 lakh villages to 1 lakh twenty thousand villages, now. So significant improvement in our village coverage. Our Yodhas have gone up to around 21,500, which is again, substantial improvement. Our overall direct coverage has, moved up, substantially. So all these are moats in a way to protect the organized players, which unorganized players generally go through wholesale, and wholesale is not easy to come by because advertising is expensive and that's going up. So on price, how much they can do. And, so during a deflationary environment, a lot of unorganized players come in because the margins inflate and supernormal profits come in. So but, you know, consumer promotions and other tactical measures and price rollbacks prevent their pack price plugging in gaps by organized players, prevent the unorganized players to really make a headway. To me, the dividends will be more in organized going forward. But forward, it's all horses for courses, different categories and, different margin profiles. Organized, unorganized varies from category to... I can't comment upon detergents. That's not where we play. As far as hair oils is concerned, I think unorganized players, fairly limited. Oral care, unorganized players, fairly limited. Home care, unorganized players, fairly limited. It's the more urban category and therefore difficult, more entry barriers. Unorganized players. Skin care, yeah, in Gulabari and all, we see some unorganized players, but then we give value offerings wherever the margins, load and we edge out the unorganized players. In healthcare, in any case, unorganized doesn't play much. In beverages, yes, a lot of unorganized players come in. It's easy to curate the portfolios, but that we have to be very competitive and therefore in the marketplace. So that's the flavor, yeah, on the big picture. Understood, sir. I hope I answered your question. Yeah, I get a flavor of what you're trying to highlight, sir. Thank you for that. So on volume growth, how should one think about, you know, Dabur's volume growth going forward? You know, over the past four quarters, 3%-4% volume growth was on a low base or a flattish base. Now we will be starting to cycle 3%-4% volume growth. So, you know, while you indicated that rural recovery is happening and you're growing ahead of peers, can we see more constructive volume growth to sustain? Or do you think there will be a softness in volume growth going forward? So I think the question of softness in volume growth doesn't arise. If we have to grow, volume growth is mandatory to have. And as far as the annual operating plans are concerned, we've taken a target of a mid-volume growth, mid to high volume growth. We've taken if we have to grow at a high single to a low double-digit growth rate. So it's not something, which, you know, we can decide. I think we have to grow volume growth, and it's in line with our vision of Ghar Ghar Dabur and Ghar Ghar Ayurveda, so we need to increase our penetration. We are already there in 8 out of 10 households, 80% penetration. If we want our entire portfolio to go to every house, volume growth is something that we have to do. It's no questions asked and no compromises here. So I think volume growth will be the way forward. Till last year, we were lapping over or we were at least having some price increases headway. Now going forward, it's going to be mostly driven by volume across categories. While we budgeted a 3% price increase, but price increase will be fairly limited in some parts of the portfolio. So which will all be driven by volume only for us. So we feel it'll be mid- to high single-digit volume growth, top it up with around 3% value and go high single- to low double-digit kind of a business that we will want to achieve, and that's a number that we've taken. Got it, sir. So then lastly, on margins, what can be possible tailwinds for gross margin, given pricing will be limited going forward? Mix improvement will be one, but do you see potential higher gross margins going forward? Yeah, so that's my last question. Yeah, so in terms of gross margin, we've seen 280 basis points of gross margin inching up on the back of deflation. So we've taken up price increases. So we will see some amount of gross margin expansion, but it will not be in line with what we've seen in past one, 1.5 years, because we've taken drastic price increases, and the rate of price increase will come down. So it will not be as high as that. And whatever gross margin improvements happen, we invest it partly in media and partly would flow down into operating margins. Going forward, gross margin in mid-term to long term will grow, but not to the extent that we've grown in last year. And we also want to take up the media percentage, which is now, was 6%, has become 7%. Now we want to inch it up from 7% to 7.5% to 8% even in terms of media. So with that, I think mid- to long-term, our margins should improve. We've also embarked on the second leg of Project Samruddhi, which is a cost-saving initiative with the help of a consultant, and outside intervention is required for optimization of our spends and expenditures across the value chain in the company. They're working with us. So on back of that, we should see around INR 100 crore benefit again coming in this year on back of cost saving. That should yield some gross margin expansion, and therefore, investment in media and operating margin. So we ended up with operating margin of around 19.4, but this includes the legal cost, like I mentioned. So on like-to-like basis, it was around 20.20%. So we want to take it up to around 20%. So I think that's what I can guide you with all these initiatives put together. Yeah. Perfect, sir. Thank you. I'll come back in the queue for more questions. Thank you, and wishing you all the very best. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Arnab Mitra from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Mohit. My first question was on health supplements, where we've seen a big decline this quarter, and also the full year has been relatively soft. So if you could help us understand, is the problem limited to Chyawanprash, and how the other parts of health supplements are doing? And what's your own analysis of what is the issue with Chyawanprash? Is the product losing appeal? What are the steps you are likely to take to get the growth back in this segment? Yeah. So, Arnab, hi. So there are three parts of our healthcare portfolio. The first part of our healthcare is the largest, is the health supplement business. Health supplement business, Chyawanprash, is a relative problem. I think the weather did not support us. Chyawanprash generally skews towards winters, and winters have been delayed and contracted, and the way wholesale or the trade behaves is typically, you know, in the beginning of the season, they pull up a lot of stock and they liquidate the stock as the season progresses. So this time, because of delayed winter, the upstocking was limited, and whatever upstocking happened due to contracted winters, that remained on the shelves, and because of delayed winter, the downstocking happened. So, the better thing is that we don't have inventories, too much inventories for next year. But, Chyawanprash, we are modifying the format. We've got Chyawanprash in capsule form, as you know already. We are introducing Chyawanprash in gummy form, in powder form, trying to improve or modernize our formats in Chyawanprash so that we can extend the usage and increase the relevance of the category, and thereby increase the penetrations. But penetrations have definitely kind of gone down. While we've increased market shares with our Chyawanprash, overall category penetrations have gone down. So there's an endeavor by the company to have all season communication, not keep it restricted to only winter. Have a communication for monsoon, extend the TG to women, extend the TG to kids, to geriatric population, and also do advocacy on Chyawanprash through doctor channel and make it secularly both Ayurvedic and Allopathic, both use it for immunity building. That's what we are trying to do here as far as Chyawanprash is concerned. Honey, honey was impacted by season. I don't think there's any problem with the honey. Honey will be consumed, and honey is doing well for us. We are gaining market shares consistently. There was a little stock issue on the honey and some little crystallization problem, which we've corrected going forward, and it was in winter, and because of spike of winter, it actually happened. So that was the reason why the honey has been softer. Glucose has done well for us. Summers are approaching, acute summer, so we had a 14% growth in the last quarter as far as glucose is concerned, and it's increasing market share. It's a duopoly, we and Zydus, and we are gaining market shares. As far as our digestive portfolio is concerned, Hajmola is unabated, unrestricted growth. Our new version of Mr. Imli variant launched in Hajmola is doing exceedingly well. Our Chatcola, Limcola, and all the other variants have done well. Variants are contributing to about 22%, 20% of the overall franchise. The bottles are doing well and so are sachets for us. So and we are looking at the extension of this brand to the unbranded digestive category, so that's doing well. Our Our Isabgol, we revamped last year, and it's grown 112%. Pudin Hara has shown a 14% growth. Honitus and Lal Tail, cough and cold is again a big problem. Now, because we were circling a high base, Honitus showed a little decline, and so did Lal Tail. But both the baby care category and the cough and cold category are resilient in India, and we will come back after we navigate the high bases. Our baby care portfolio is already around INR 40 crore-INR 45 crore. It was last year around INR 20 crore, so we've almost grown by 60%-70% in baby care. Our Super Pants and baby care is doing exceedingly well, both on e-commerce and also on the advocacy channel. The third part of the portfolio is OTC and ethical. Our ethical business has grown by 8%, which is classical portfolio has grown by 88%, and that's doing well. Shilajit has grown by 21%, and the market is really blossoming on Shilajit. So I think overall, healthcare is doing well, but with an exception of Chyawanprash, and we have initiatives lined up to take Chyawanprash to a new level. So that's where we are. So it's a small part of our business, but I think we should be able to come around. We are introducing gummies and new age formats also in it, like I alluded to. Yeah. Understood. Thanks for that, Mohit. And one simple, I mean, update, any update on the legal case in the US? And do we expect the same level of legal costs in FY 2025 as we reported in FY 2024, or there's any change in that expectation? That will be my last question. Yeah. As far as legal is concerned, it is pretty much status quo. The last update that I've given you on legal is that depositions have already happened, fact sheets have been received from the plaintiffs' lawyers. Discovery phase is still continuing. We've been able to achieve corporate separatedness of Dabur International and Dermoviva from Namaste. So no Dabur entity is involved in it, including Dabur International and Dermoviva, only Namaste is involved, which is less than 1% of our turnover in terms of top line and profitability. So we've been able to ring-fence Namaste and limit our risks to a very great level. So I think that's on the update as far as this is concerned. This will continue for another, I think, year, year and a half. We are trying to expedite, you know, the scientific discovery, scientific phase, in which we are requesting the plaintiffs to give us fact sheets on how this allegation or accusation has been made, that this is injurious, where this has been used for generations, et cetera, in the African American population origins only done. So the moment it comes to the scientific phase, I think, the case will get really diluted, and it will come in our favor. As you know, that this is based on an unsubstantiated, incomplete study, which has been held redundant by cosmetic, toiletry, perfumery, associations, et cetera. So, you know, we are pretty confident, and Dabur is confident that we will win this case if it comes to the end of the case, but we are trying to expedite as much as possible. A lot of our peers who've been involved in it have not even, you know, cited this case, and not even kept a provision. So we are also trying to see that, you know, our insurance gives us a claim of the legal costs that we have actually incurred, in which case we could pleasantly surprise you going forward. But that is another litigation which is happening as we speak with the insurance companies to reimburse the cost that we are incurring on this, because of the stipulated number of how much they give you in terms of number of... Well, I don't want to get into this conversation. We can have a separate, but it can go on. But I think, we only had a good news as an update, and which we had given you last time. Subsequently, there is no. We are incurring a cost. This year, we've incurred a cost of INR 105 crores, and next year, this will continue next year also. We've taken a budget of roughly around INR 80-odd to INR 80 crores-INR 90 crores, similar costs for next year also, but it's lapped over. So there is no incrementality in terms of the legal costs that we'll incur next year on account of the case. Okay, thanks so much. All the best. Thank you, yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi, good evening. My first question was on the distribution side. So you mentioned that, you know, your, the pace of distribution expansion for you has been higher than historical levels as well as higher than what peers have done. I just wanted to get a sense about, say, the next year or two. You know, do we see now as consolidating, especially on the rural and direct side, you know, and focus more on, you know, throughput? Or do you see this to be a, you know, continued, fairly sharp, expansion, especially because, you know, at one point towards 1 million, you know, outlets as well as on the rural side, you've, you've done a fairly, strong job already. So just wanted your sense on how do you see this going forward. Is the next phase, like, you know, starts about now, or we need to see focus on throughput? Thanks. Yeah, Harit, so distribution expansion is our very key strategy growth pillar that we see. So there are two legs to distribution. One is the expansion leg, and one is the efficiency leg. Expansion leg is rural expansion and also urban expansion. Rural expansion is more, village expansion. I told you the villages went up by 20% from 100,000 to 120,000, but the headroom for increasing the number of villages is huge. You've got around 600,000 villages, and as government is, investing in infrastructure, roads and highways and railroads, et cetera, most of the rural India is actually becoming urban India. Therefore, the headroom only remains for us to convert, rural into urban, and therefore, our Yodhas playbook and our self-stockist playbook, rural expansion, is working well for us, and that's what is giving us, higher than peer, dividends as far as rural is concerned. So that's as far as expansion. In urban, we are expanding by our direct reach. As you know, we are reaching out directly to around 14 lakh outlets, as compared to almost 79 lakh outlets that we have present. As compared to peer, this should be around 20-30% of our direct plus indirect reach. So again, huge headroom available to take up 14 lakhs to something like around 20 lakhs. That's our direct reach expansion of outlets in urban. As far as the urban-urban is concerned, I think their e-commerce is already 10%, 9%-10% of our overall business. We continue to engage with e-commerce and get deeper into e-commerce, with quick commerce continuing, which is already contributing around 30% of the e-com business. That presents a big opportunity to us, and we want to get in with the Swiggy, Zomato, Zepto, all those coming and opening up towns, one after the other in urban India, so that presents a big opportunity in modern trade also. Last year, modern trade, last quarter, modern trade has only grown by 7%. But if you look at the tertiary system, modern trade, tertiaries have grown by around 22%-23% for us. Because the Reliance kind of, cleared up their inventories, I think prior to listing or whatever the case may be, but, they held back on primary sales. Whereas tertiary sales was very good in Reliance, and Reliance is big for us, around 30% contributing to modern trade. So I think as they clear their inventories next year, again, that should show. That's the third leg of our, distribution, expansion is concerned. The second piece is efficiency. Efficiency, we have a metric called EDGE score, everyday great execution. In that, EDGE score, we monitor the number of outlets we visit, the number of lines we sold, and what is the premiumization that we do in every outlet. That is happening as we speak, and therefore, a lot of churn of sales force happens there. People who are not performing below the radar of our ROI, we churn, and they're chopped and churned. So pretty much similar strategy, staying the course on our strategy and not anything very different than what we've been talking about in the future. This is giving us results, so we will continue, but continue with the discipline. I think we were a little lackadaisical around monitoring them. I think the moment we put more discipline onto it and monitor it more steadfastly, this will only become better. Great. Thank you so much for this. Just my, my last question is on the pricing side. You know, I-- your, your, your long-term model is medium to high single digit volume growth and, medium to high volume growth and, you know, some pricing, probably 3% odd. But I was just wondering, you know, is, you know, at a time where, you know, pricing is not so easy to come, forth, would FY 2025 also have a similar kind of 3% odd pricing, you think, at an average of, you know, that will only happen through the year, so we shouldn't assume an average for the year at 3%? Yeah, that's an average for the year, but it's different for different verticals. We are looking at our juice portfolio, which is very price sensitive, only a 1% price increase there. In healthcare, which is more resilient, we are looking at a 4% price increase. In HPC, we're looking at about 2% odd price increase in line with what the competitor takes as we are followers there. So the weighted average of that will be around 3% for the full year, through the year. So we are not looking at any double-digit price increases. I think honey will have a little bit of price increase because the staple of the honey commodity price is actually inching up and so that's, that's where we are on the pricing here. Great, sir. Thanks for showing us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Vivek Maheshwari from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Hi, Mohit and team. Two questions. First is, you know, again, something that has been asked for FY 2025 and even the earlier participant asked about the medium term. But let's say if you have to grow your earnings, let's say, double-digit over the next, let's say, three to five years, and at some point of time, margin upside will be limited, that will imply that, you know, maybe volume growth has to be about 7% to 7.5% and, you know, 2% to 2.5%, 2.5 maybe pricing, to get to, let's say, 10%-11% kind of revenue growth. Which essentially means after a point, once margins, you know, let's say, start to plateau, the entire bottom line growth will be led by top line. From a three year longer term perspective now, you know, not just you, but you know, a lot of your peers will have to settle for growth, which is more like 9% to 11%, 11%-ish, from an earnings perspective? Is that a fair, you know, model? Yeah, I think your numbers, Vivek, stack up well. So we also feel that the volume should be around mid to high, and 7.5 should be the volume. But as of now, the way FMCG market is actually behaving, it's I think mid-single is what one is looking at, and therefore, a high single digit growth is what one looks at. And price increase in our portfolio, where we are market leaders in a lot of categories where we are existing, pricing could be a little better than... But because rural favors double, and if rural comes back, I think volume growth will also be driven by rural for us. That's what I have seen. But I think long term, that's what it will be. So if the commodity is remain benign, which is not the case internationally. Internationally, the inflation is much more severe as compared to India inflation. If India was to follow international, I think more price increases will come to India also, like we've seen in the past one year. India has been insulated by that kind of a inflation, which is what we are seeing in the U.S. That's why the rate cuts haven't happened in the U.S. as of today also. So I think because of elections, so they are also keeping a lot of inflation down and post that, so I don't know what that mix will be. So as far as now is concerned, we are looking at a mid-single kind of volume is looking more possible. If monsoon is well, everything goes well, stability of government happens, everything is consistent, then it can be 7.5. Otherwise, 7.5 volume growth is a little on the higher end. I would say a better mix would be a five and a five and a five and a four, and that's what is the right, sustainable sort of volume growth. But if you look at Dabur, Dabur's portfolio is pretty widespread and diversified. We are better off than our peers. So like we have seen in the last quarter also, that our beverage business and our healthcare business, both were impacted by unseasonal rains and climate changes, et cetera. But our HPC portfolio, which also have a fair diversity, it came and bailed us out, and international business, also HPC driven, came and bailed us out. So, you know, I think we should be in a better position than our peers. That's what my take would be. Got it. If I, if I, you know, actually, you know, add to that, Mohit, I would imagine, you know, in some ways, let's say, what you have done with the, in the toothpaste, and there have been, you know, communications from you in the past to, let's say, mainstream Ayurveda, natural herbal. Arguably, you are, you can still grow faster, gain shares, let's say, health supplements, you know, it all depends on what you keep in the denominator or even, you know, even on the some of your healthcare products or even the mainstream FMCG business also, given the herbal, orientation. So if you have to move, let's say, volume growth to a higher level, which arguably could be easier in your case versus your peers, you know, given that you have share gain opportunity, just purely because of you have this architecture, how would you do that? Otherwise, you know, for the industry, as in your peers as well as you, if we assume margins plateau at some point, the best case is like 8%-9% earnings growth, right? You're absolutely right. I think we are in a better position. So, no, one good thing for us is, besides the rural leg that I explained, the expansion, that is definitely for a portfolio which is more accessible price points of INR 10, INR 20, INR 50, INR 100 rupee. But beyond that, you suddenly find modern trade and e-commerce, where Dabur is the only differentiated player in natural and owning natural and driving the growth, to your point, the way we've done in oral care, we can do it in shampoos, we can do it in hair oils, we can do it in health supplements, and we can do it in food also and own natural, and that's how we can grow. So two pivots of growth. One is more rural-driven growth, which is expansion-driven growth, and one is more modern trade and e-commerce-driven growth for us. So two legs, one is premiumization leg and another is penetration leg. So that can come in, and that's what we've been attempting to do. So to harness or to leverage our, the rural infrastructure, we've created bundles of products which are of accessible price points, which the teams are driving there. And in terms of verticals of distribution, we are creating separate food and beverage... separate food, separate beverage, separate HPC and HC distribution verticals also, yeah, Vivek. So opportunity is there, but we are limited by bandwidth and time and resources. So that's where. But intent is to what you're saying is right, to grow at double digits, yes. Driven by volume. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. And the second question is, you know, if I look at your, you know, fourth quarter numbers for... So post-pandemic, once things started to normalize, every year we are seeing that your fourth quarter margins are significantly lower than the third, than the first nine months, whether it's FY 2024, FY 2023 or I think FY 2022 also. And if you go back to FY 2019, the margins delta between fourth quarter and the rest of the year or previous quarter, was never that high. Now, part of the reason that I see is your revenues actually declined quite a bit in fourth quarter versus, let's say, third quarter. Your other expenses, even if you adjust for, adjust for the legal cost, that also moves up, you know, quite a bit on a sequential basis. So what has changed so much after pandemic that, you know, fourth quarter revenues, you know, go down quite a bit, other expenses jump up quite a bit, and your margins actually move down, you know, fairly significantly? We are actually prepared with that answer. Sure. I will ask Ankush to give that answer. He's templated that question, answer for you. So I will... Over to Ankush. Thanks, Mohit. So Vivek, you know, just to broadly answer this, you know, five years ago and over the last two years, you know, structurally, the salience of business has changed. So if you look at exact numbers of, four, five years ago, which is pre-COVID, business salience used to be 25% in Q4. Today, at this peak, it is 22.7%. So just to give a broad number, you know, average first nine months, we have done INR 3,200 crore average per quarter for first three quarters. In this quarter, it is INR 2,800 crore, which means, you know, last quarter is slightly lower, and because of that, the leverage in overheads, you know, is slightly lower. Hence, therefore, in our business model, we'll have to probably see at a more yearly numbers, you know, and that would probably be the right way. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Ankush. So that's the diagnostic of the issue and why it has happened post pandemic. It's a very intelligent question and therefore nicely answered by Ankush. But how do we course correct? I think we have to increase the relevance of our summer portfolio, and therefore ensure our summer to leverage all the expenses. So what we are doing is we are launching a lot of summer portfolio products, like, you know, Cool King came in last year, so which is a Thanda Tel, which sells in summers. We are putting a lot of pressure on Pudina, a lot of pressure is happening on juices portfolio, glucose as a portfolio. So we are trying to summer skew a lot of our products so that that actually comes up. So as we speak, we are launching talcum powders also under the Cool King brand and trying to build that brand so that we are able to increase the salience of summer-driven portfolio for us- Yeah. In Q4, yeah. May I just add one more, you know, granular point, you know, Vivek. Also till four to five years ago, our, you know, ad spend in Q4 used to be the least. But now, even in this quarter, it is, you know, +6%. So it used to be just 5%. So, you know, that structuring is also impacting the market. So therefore, you have to actually see more YTD nine, and therefore, 40. No, sorry. Sorry if I'm stretching this a bit, you know, longer, but, you know, my point is, so two things: absolute revenue, why is it lower now versus pre-pandemic? What has changed, number one. Number two, even if you look at other expenses, forget about the denominator, but even if you look at it on an absolute basis, your fourth quarter other expenses, rupees crore also jumps up, you know, quite a bit. So, why is revenue base lower? What has changed since pandemic? And, why absolute other expenses also higher? No, so absolute revenue is not lower. What we said, the saliency of the revenue in quarter four is lower than what it was pre-COVID. So absolute revenue is still higher. We used to be around INR 2,200 crore in Q4, now we are still INR 2,800 crore. So it's absolute is higher. The saliency to the quarter of the quarter four has gone down. Okay, got it. Thank you. So I think there is some more color which is to be given. So, Vivek, we can send across, or we can have a discussion post this meeting with you to explain you. So the way I want to summarize it, he's saying the salience has come down in quarter four, but absolutely our turnover has gone up. So it's 23% as compared to 25% what used to be happening during COVID or immediately post-COVID. And post-COVID, Chyawanprash was selling all through the year because COVID continued, and after that, Chyawanprash salience went down, profitability went down. It's only juice salience and summer brands, because overalls remain the same. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prashant Patil from Spark Private Wealth. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Most of the questions are answered. I just had one question, Mohit. You know, you mentioned monsoons are expected to be good. The base is fairly low in rural. So, you know, what kind of momentum would we expect in the near term, and what categories will, you know, drive this growth for us on the overall domestic business? And if you give some color on, you know, rural and urban, that would be helpful. Yeah. So therefore, if you look at the previous quarter, our rural has grown by 8%, our urban has grown by 4%, so there's a 400 basis points difference between urban and rural, and that is an indicative of what things will be going forward, if the rural growth is ahead of the urban growth. So rural for us... So we are, you know, kind of, you know, a barometer of how the performance in the market will be. So our rural will chug along well. On back of a portfolio, which is more summer-centric portfolio for rural. We as a brand is also, pretty rural-centric, and Ayurvedic products do well in rural India as compared to urban India. In urban, we have a premiumization strategy, which is different from too much Ayurveda, but it's contemporary, scientific Ayurveda, as compared to rural, is more traditional product for us. So it'll be OTC-driven, healthcare-driven, oral care-driven, which is also very 90% penetrative, hair oil-driven, shampoo-driven, so across. And, in, beverages also, we venture into drinks, which is at a price point of INR 10 rupee, INR 20 rupee, and INR 60 rupee, which also trends well in rural. Earlier, juices was only INR 160 rupees, INR 150 rupee, more urban phenomena. So we are getting more into rural and leveraging our rural infrastructure. So I don't think I can say that any particular part of the portfolio should do well in rural. I think it's across the board. If we are able to bring our brands to accessible price points and leverage our rural village infrastructure for our portfolio, I think the potential is huge as we increase our Yodhas and make inroads into more hinterland. Okay. And at least you know, what we are reading and hearing, monsoon seems to be on the right trajectory, so will that also add to the momentum, especially in rural? Yeah, I think so, because agrarian, rural is agrarian economy, and if the monsoon is good, agricultural crop will be good, more money in the hands of the farmers, and therefore, more shampoo sachets and more toothpaste and more hair oil consumption should happen, which is more discretionary in nature. Yeah. And for the legal cost, you mentioned around INR 85 crore would come in this year also. There will be a portion throughout the year, it'll be across quarters and... Or how will that pan out? It's broadly around INR 20 crore-INR 25 crore per quarter, because this is pertaining to the legal fees of the lawyers, and it generally is spread out through the year. Okay, understood. That's helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Aditya Soman from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good evening. I mean, just following up on the question earlier, in terms of seasonality for revenues, I think, can you explain why the salience of Q4 has come off? I mean, you've mentioned that the Q4 sales salience is lower than earlier. Can you just talk through why that has happened? And then, yeah. And then the second question is just on EBITDA margin guidance, excluding this legal cost of INR 20crore-INR 25 crore per quarter. Right. So our quarter one, quarter two, and quarter three is generally in the range of, you know, quarter three is actually higher because of Chyawanprash and honey and high-value items selling, and because the value is higher, therefore, the saliency is higher, typically in the third quarter. In the fourth quarter, juices, the case rate of juices is much lower, therefore, the value saliency goes down, albeit in volume. The number of cases that we sell is almost same as the quarter three, but value actually is lower in the quarter four because it's seasonal business. So you sell more of juices slowly, and you sell more of Triphala and other things as compared to Chyawanprash and honey, which typically goes in the winter. And that's why the saliency is lower in the quarter four. During COVID, it became all through because pandemic was there all through, and we were selling Chyawanprash and honey also in the summer season. So that is actually reversed since COVID. As far as EBITDA margins are concerned, we want to go back to 20%, and if you look at without legal costs, our operating margin is already in the range of around 20.2%. So we should go back to 20%. Ankush, a challenge for our CFO here to inch up our operating margin to 20% level. So, Ankush, you want to add a line or so? Yeah, definitely, I just want to add, you know, pre-COVID, our operating margin was 20.4%, and today, as we speak, adjusted for legal costs, it's almost there, 20.2%. And, it's also because we have acquired, you know, Badshah. Adjusted for that, it's almost there at 20.4%. So I think, any upside now will also be partly redeployed back in, you know, advertisement and generating demand. So I think, what we saw this year, you know, the expansion of 150 basis points, adjusted for legal costs, obviously, will not be there, but, our endeavor would be to gradually increase it, you know, in mid to long term. Understand. Very clear. That's. Thank you for that. Just on the first question, I mean, in terms of the saliency coming down, I understand during COVID, health supplements did very well through the year, but even prior to that, I mean, the gap between Q4 and Q3 wasn't as sharp. So, why are we seeing such a big drop? Drop in saliency? The drop in saliency. Yeah, even pre-COVID, you know, saliency of Chyawanprash was slightly higher even in Q4. But now we've seen that even in this quarter, at least this quarter, the saliency of Chyawanprash and health supplement actually went down, and therefore, overall saliency was lower. Okay, understood. That's very clear. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tejas Shah from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Mohit, in our last annual presentation, which we did, somewhere, beginning of the year, this fiscal year, a key focus for this year was supposed to be transforming our power brands to power platforms. Now, when I see our final presentation for this year, in 2024, there's no mention of platform word itself. So I was just wondering, where are we on that journey, and, and is it, like, much longer term, which should not be monitored on a quarterly basis? Tejas, absolutely. So our strategy doesn't change. I think it remains same. In the presentation, it doesn't mention because it was more based on the quarterly result and not on the strategy. But as far as our budget presentation was concerned, it was pretty much based on that. That's why you look at that in category after category, we are plugging the gaps in spaces where we are not present, and wherever the power brands can extend, we are extending them. Like, Dabur Red has got extended to Bae Fresh, and that's what we've done in oral care. Dabur Amla is getting extended into value-added hair oils, and that's what we are doing. Home care, Odomos, has got extended into LVP. It was just a personal application. Now we are extending into LVP, which is a much larger addressable market and therefore a platform. Odonil was more of solid blocks for us, so we've extended to gel platform, and gel has already got a INR 50 crore turnover coming in now. Gulabari, which is only a rose water, got extended to body washes, so therefore, power platforms from power brands. And, in Chyawanprash, Chyawanprash in powder form is what we are introducing. Chyawanprash in gummy form, we are introducing. Honey is also getting extended into, breakfast cereal that we talked about, and therefore, a platform there to take honey from the medicine chest to maybe bring it to the breakfast table, and therefore, contiguous categories like breakfast cereals, which will be honey-based, will also come in the future. And, in the beverage segment, we've extended juices to nectars to drinks, so that's also a platform extension, and now into carbonated also. So it's across the board. Hommade from Culinary is moving into the food category. So we are very consistent with the strategy that we laid out in front of you on the capital markets day, and that's what. The numbers may vary, but the strategy remains on course. Great. Second question: If I look at our annual growth from the lens of power brands and non-power brands, except oral care, I believe, the other six power brands would not have contributed above our company's average growth rate for this year. So it also means that a large part of heavy lifting for growth was done with the long tail of other brands, with the emerging brands, which would have done. So first of all, is the math correct on this? And if you can share some insight on the same. So what you're saying is right. Now, because power brands contribute to 75%-80% of the business, if season doesn't favor you, so Réal as a power brand will get impacted, and that will impact. So juices got impacted, it was flat turnover, so it didn't fire. Chyawanprash, which is a power brand, did not fire, so that took down the business, and other brands saliency looks up. But that said, the power brand contribution to the business remains as it is. The growth may not come because of some seasonal issue or others, because it is a power brand at the end of the day, that could positively or negatively impact the business. But the strategy on power brand remains. That doesn't change from quarter to quarter. You have to look at it from a four year period or a five year period. It's a strategy of the company. So therefore, if you look at the CAGR period, you will find power brand CAGR, like, Réal CAGR is 15% over the past to to three years. Last year was 13% growth, this year is flat, so average growth is around 15%, higher than the company average. So that's the way to look at the business. Also, I think just to add on, maybe, you know, in every power brand, we continue to gain market share, both in the quarter and in and in previous years. So you have actually also see a relative, you know, performance, when there is some bit of stress in route. The distribution initiative is also in power brands will go up, and by virtue of that, our distribution expansion has been 200,000 outlets in the current year. Because you can't distribute a smaller brand, because that doesn't have the strength to get distributed, and neither there is advertising spend on it. So yeah. Thank you. The last one, if I may. So given the surge in this consumer and judicial activism that we are seeing globally and in India, and now there are increasing frequency of these accidents which are happening on brands now. So, as a very responsible company, do you think that industry at large will be kind of investing more on product quality and safeguards so that we are not attacked very so frequently, A? And we also will have to time and again reinvest in branding equity. So at a very long term or medium to long term level, do you think that margin expansion will take a backseat versus protecting product and brand equity going forward, at least in the near term? Yeah, so I think very good point. I think consumer activism and consumerism, and placing the consumer interest first is a priority of the brand as the brands become more responsible. Because if you look at social media growth and digital growth, this is what is coming, and consumers in the metros and consumers in the millennials and the centennials and the Gen X are all embracing brands which are talking about environmentally friendly products, which are eco-friendly, which are more sustainability driven, which do not contain nasties, which do not contain plastics, you know. So therefore, this really consumer-first approach with environment, climate, and health will take a front seat. But I think I don't agree with the second point that you made, that will the margin take a backseat? The moment the brand becomes environmentally conscious, sustainable, consumers are ready to pay a price premium for that. So the moment they pay a price premium and you become environmentally friendly, it becomes a virtuous loop. Premiumization grows, the brands become quality conscious and environmentally friendly, and the premiumization happens, and therefore profitability also inches up. So I think consumer rewards you with the profitability and the value that the consumer gets. Now, this is relevant for urban India today. Rural India, for the per capita income of India being so low, I think still it's a little time away for the rural India, and at least 65% of the population of this country is still fighting hunger and poverty, and therefore, sustainability and eco-friendliness and climate care is a urban phenomena. But it's catching up. The consciousness is catching up, so that is where we are. So you look at the example of plastic straws and paper straws. Paper straws are still more expensive as compared to plastic straws, but the prices of paper straws have almost become 40% more premium to plastic straws, which used to be 200% premium. So I think the whole price table comes down, but everybody's making more money because the capacity has gone up and scale improves the profitability. So yeah. Got it. Thanks and all the best. Thank you, yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nillai Shah from Moon Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, Mohit. Thanks. Can you hear me? Hi. Hi, Nillai. I I can hear you, yeah. Yes, Mohit, you know, there are a few questions on margins. I just have a question on margins from a longer term perspective. I've had this discussion, I think, on the call with you earlier, but since you've just finished your annual review, maybe you can shed some more light on it. Your margin aspiration near term of 20%, when I take it line by line and compare your businesses with your competition, let's say in the case of oral care with Colgate, in the case of healthcare, with RX, companies, et cetera, your margins seem very, very low. Most of these companies in India are now trading at, you know, are now reporting margins which are in the mid-20s. I understand you've got a beverage portfolio, but you also have a very large healthcare portfolio, which would offset those margins. What are your thoughts on margin expansion from a long-term perspective over the next three to five years? Yes, Nillai. Very valid question, and I think, I think good that you keep reiterating this. It actually puts more discipline in our mind also to inch up the margin. So long term, we know that there is a pharmaceutical business that we take business from. That's our source of business, and there the margin profiles are much higher as compared to what margins we have, and that's why we built the advocacy vertical of going to the doctors and therefore advocating our brand. But it's a little slower. It's going to take time. So to your point, it's a more long-term margin improvement that we're doing. We have driven the business of baby care, skin care, and also now general in the doctors, so it's only around INR 120 crore for us. So gradually, slowly, as we put more products there, we'll be able to get better margins out of that. So if I compare my pharma business, which is going to doctors, I make a 70% margin as compared to the healthcare, where I make 20%-50% margin to your point. The more products I put on that bridge of advocacy, the more margins I will make. So but the scale of the business takes time to build. So long term, we are on the same path and on the same thought process of building margins on back of OTC, RX, et cetera. But it's a time-taking business. Like before I came on board, two to three years back, we only used to go to Ayurvedic doctors. And Ayurvedic doctor is again commoditized, a play of children, and therefore, you can't command a premium. Since we've now going to allopathic doctors, there is a huge upside on the margin that one can get. And in mass categories like oral care and hair care, we were busy fighting with our competitors and gaining shares on back of pricing. There's a huge opportunity to premiumize that. In Dabur Red, for example, Sensitive is at a much higher margin. Can we launch a Dabur Red Sensitive? Answer is absolutely yes. The category is doing well on back of GSK. There is an answer. There is no natural play there, and Dabur has a right to win in that market segment. We can do that. In Ayurveda, Ayurvedic hair oils like Indulekha, where again, Dabur has a right to win, has got a higher margin profile in mass categories also. So there also, there is a vertical. We are thinking on those lines and, working on it, yeah. Just to be clear, Mohit, when you benchmark your different categories with the competition, in some cases you are the number one player, but elsewhere, when you benchmark, are you saying that the margins that those categories make for Dabur are similar, broadly similar to what competition is able to deliver and report? And the only difference at this point in time is the fact that the healthcare business is probably making those 50% margins, which can be higher from a long-term perspective. Is that the synopsis of your answer? Yeah, the synopsis is whichever categories we are operating in, our gross margin profile is pretty similar to our competitors. So it is similar. We've done the benchmarking, and we've not done the benchmarking. We've taken the big four consultants to help us do benchmarking, like BCG, McKinsey, have done that benchmarking for us and assured us our gross margin profile remains the same. But sometimes what happens is we are only 15, 16% market share. As we scale up the business, we'll be able to leverage the overheads, and therefore it will flow down to the operating margin. Because overheads are higher, that's why operating margin could be lower, but the gross margin profile is very similar. In oral care, if you see our gross margin profile will be very similar. If there are areas in which gross margin is lower, we are continuously working on optimizing our formulation and packaging to ensure that our gross margins are there because we are not compromising on price. Our price is actually higher on back of a differentiation of natural, and our cost is also benchmarked to competition. But the only area where we suffer is because of the lower scale, we are not able to leverage our overheads, but with scale it will come in because of the diversified and the varied portfolio that Dabur has here. I understand, Mohit. This is very clear. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks, thanks, thanks so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Priyank Chheda from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, Mohit. Sir, my question is on the progress, if you can share on the three new categories within healthcare that we had shared while we met last year in your annual analyst meet, which is baby care, tea market, within Vedic and herbal, and then the large segment of therapeutics. So a broader progress within these three categories would be helpful. Great. Yeah. So on baby care, last year we did a turnover of INR 20 crore. I told you this year we are talking a turnover of almost INR 40 crore, INR 40 crore-INR 45 crore of baby care turnover. That's the update as well as baby care is. And baby care is being sold through both e-commerce for us and also through therapeutics portfolio. The second category we talked about was health juices. Health juices, we did a turnover of about INR 20 crore. We've done INR 26 crore in the current year. On tea, which we had test marketed it, because it's a very competitive category. While we had a right to win, but the proposition was not very differentiated. We've improved our formulation, and we were at INR 12.6 crore turnover as far as tea is concerned. That's on the healthcare category. We had also done ghee, where the margins were lower, so therefore we were not too much pushing it, but we have improved our margins now on back of scale, and we have delivered INR 24 crore sale on back of ghee. Ghee also. So these are the four updates on the healthcare portfolio. As far as HPC is concerned, we had built Sanifresh. Sanifresh, I told you, has done around INR 40 crore for us. Gel pocket, extending the Odonil into gel pocket has done INR 25 crore, and LVP is around INR 12 crore for us. Odomos getting extended to LVP, extending our power brands to power platforms and increasing our total addressable market. That's where. And our drinks portfolio is INR 200 crore, which we mentioned. This year, we've not grown on drinks because of the season issue, but I hope next year this will really inch up for us. Right. And how are we tracking the therapeutics proposition that we were supposed to take from Ayurvedic doctors to allopathic doctors, that whole of the portfolio which is ready at Dabur? How do we track that progress? So we have our advocacy vertical, and Philip is the one who's driving it. We've done a turnover of INR 120-odd crores on the therapeutic vertical. It's more advocacy with the doctors, and after advocacy, we go to the chemist outlets in the vicinity, and that's how we sell. We've got a turnover of INR 120 crores, but more importantly, it's more qualitative that we are reaching out to 1.1 lakh doctors as compared to 20,000 touchpoints that we had earlier. So this has moved up to 1.1, and it's pediatricians, it's dermatologists, it's gynecologists. So it's women, baby, and geriatric. So we are focusing on these three and pediatrics to start with. Right. In baby care, we had targeted a sub-segment called hygiene, wherein diapers and wipes were one of the products to be launched. Any progress or update on that? Yeah. So we have launched Dabur Super Pants, which is a baby diaper, sort of, and that's done very well. It's grown by almost... last time it wasn't there much. How much is it? We've got a turnover, I think, around INR 10-11 crores on baby pants alone, which is doing very well on e-commerce, and the category is very lowly penetrated, and it's increasing, huh? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Just a last question on the overall premiumization portfolio. What would be the premiumization portfolio as of since, and how are we tracking that, and the growth that we saw in FY 2024? Yeah. So the way we look at premiumization is, you look at the average pricing of the category, at 20% premium than the average category price. Premium price is what we categorize as the premium brand. 18% of our portfolio is premiumization portfolio. We are tracking it on a yearly basis, and we see premium, and we are tracking it on all our brands and giving targets to the team to increase premiumization year on year. So it's a very objective exercise of, tracking and increasing the premium portfolio, which is more driven from modern trade and e-commerce, which contribute to 20% of the business. Besides doing premiumization internally on our brands, we are also doing joint business planning with Reliance and Zepto and e-commerce players also, and planning premiumization wherever gaps are there as per their demand. Just to give you some examples of that, we are building apple cider vinegar with one platform. So now this is not premiumization, but we've done a JBP with Reliance, and Reliance wanted to create the Rose brand on their own. So Reliance and Dabur have collaborated together. We've introduced Gulabari soaps only in Reliance. That itself has clocked a turnover of INR 12 crore only on back of Reliance alone. So that is another innovation stream that we have started with them. Yeah, but this is not really premiumization. Just to give you an example. What would be the new product contribution, new product NPD sales and contribution in FY 2024? Around 3.5%. 3.5% for us. But it varies differently vertical-wise. For our foods business, it is 4.6%, 2% is for HPC, and around 4% for healthcare also. All right. Thank you for all your answers. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Gagan Ahluwalia for closing comments. Over to you. Thank you. I thank all the participants for joining today's earnings call. The webcast, audio recording, and transcript will be available on our website. Thank you, and have a great evening ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. On behalf of Dabur India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.