Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to DLF Limited Q4 FY24 earnings conference call. We have with us today on the call Mr. Ashok Tyagi, Managing Director and CFO, DLF Limited. Mr. Shriram Khattar, Vice Chairman and Managing Director, Rental Business. Mr. Aakash Ohri, Joint Managing Director and Chief Business Officer. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashok Tyagi. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Okay, thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to, you know, DLF Limited's analyst call for the quarter and year ended March 31, 2024. As you may have seen from our analyst presentation that was circulated last evening, this has been one more quarter of reasonably solid and strong growth. Our pre-sales for the last year have again been in the vicinity of INR 15,000 crore, thus maintaining now two back-to-back years of, of a INR 14,500 crore-INR 15,000 crore sales level. Our PAT for the quarter was INR 900 crore, and for the full year, the consolidated PAT is INR 2,700 crore, which again, is a very strong number. I think the most heartening is that the free operating cash flow for the year is now running at about INR 4,300 crore for the last fiscal year. We are now very solidly in the positive cash territory and ended the last year, March 31, with a net positive cash balance of INR 1,500 crore plus, which hopefully should keep on growing. I mean, we are clearly looking at the existing markets, you know, in terms of the depth that they have, which has surprised us extremely positively. The launches that Aakash has led have been successful almost now without fail. And I think this is the strength of what we have achieved so far. We are clearly looking at a strong growth in the next fiscal and hopefully targeting a sales guidance of INR 17,000 crore for fiscal 2024-25. With the development business, the rental business has continued to have an extremely solid year all through. The rental, the total rentals for the last year have been INR 4,400 crore plus, which are slated to grow significantly this year. Our, our growth pipeline, in terms of CapEx, is very strong, with two down- with the Downtown coming up in Gurgaon, the next phase of Downtown in Chennai, and our joint venture with Hines, The Atrium Place. All buildings are now in an advanced state of completion. Our debt to GAV is now down to 0.23, which is almost comparable to the industry's best, and our debt to NOI is also now almost at a 4 and stated to be a sub-4 level through the year. So all in all, both the residential and the commercial businesses have done extremely well, and frankly, without taking too much of your time, I'll now open it up for questions. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, please click on the Raise Hand icon tab available on your toolbar or on the Q&A tab available on your screen. You may also post text questions on the Ask a Question tab available on your screen. Kindly turn on your mic when the operator announces your name. For participants joining through the audio bridge, to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you so much, and congratulations on, you know, good collection run rate. My first question is actually with respect to that only. Of the INR 2,100 crore of collection this quarter, how much of it is attributable to Chennai, and how much do you think is a sustainable run rate on a quarterly basis? Okay. So the Chennai, I mean, the total transaction value of Chennai was about INR 725, 730 odd crores, you know? Yeah. And all- Yeah ... all of that got collected in this quarter. Okay. Total through the year, our collections, net of the Chennai transaction, were about INR 7,600-odd crore. Okay. It was INR 8,300 crore, including Chennai, so about INR 7,600 crore excluding Chennai, which runs at about INR 1,900 odd crore per quarter. I mean, obviously there will be spikes across quarters. We are frankly targeting for this number to grow by at least 15 odd% on an ongoing basis for next year. Well, just 15%, despite a huge sales launch pipeline? I mean, so, so again, the launch pipeline is the first. So A, if you look at, see, The Arbour had been launched in the previous year, and Arbour collections came in now. Yeah. I mean, the bulk of the first 35% Arbour collections have now come in. The next, the, the subsequent collections will now come with stated construction milestones. Privana South and Privana West will have strong collections in the next fiscal. But please also appreciate that a large chunk of our collections engines for the last two years was driven by the completed Camellias- Okay. - which were all sold at a nine-month timeline. Really, as the Camellias existing inventory is now winding down, that particular support will no longer be available. Now really, it's I mean, in some sense, this year will be the first year where the new products launched in the last couple of years will be driving the entire collections mechanism. Understood. That's helpful. My second question is with respect to the, you know, recent land acquisition in Gurugram, which is the IREO project, and that seems to have increased your land bank from 81-88 million sq ft. How should one think about it? Why was there a need to buy it in this location and not get into some of the newer markets or allocate capital towards, you know, more towards Mumbai, for example? How should we think about the balance remaining land bank? Because you have a very, very large land bank in Gurugram already. So, A, like Mumbai itself is split across seven or eight distinct sub-markets. The fact is, today, Gurugram is no longer a single market. There are at least three or four distinct, you know, sub-markets or micro markets in Gurugram, of which the Golf Course Road is clearly one. The erstwhile DLF City was another. The New Gurgaon was third. I mean, frankly, Aakash has almost created the entire Privana market as a premium market to the classical New Gurgaon market now. Yeah. The Golf Course Extension Road was always a strong market, where frankly, we did not have adequate land presence. We had only one project, which was The Arbour, which had been launched in December or- Correct. Sorry, March of 2023, and that was a great success. Which frankly led us to believe that there could potentially, there was potentially a window of opportunity for us to get into if we could get the right land bank. And this was a land bank which came to us through the lenders, and it was, as you know, it was a takeover of a bank debt, which we did, along with the security which came with it, and then obviously we did a SARFAESI, etc. So I think really, this, I mean, this land parcel today will cost us less than INR 2,500 a sq ft on saleable area for almost 7.5 million sq ft. We believe that there's a, you know, I mean, frankly, this is an extremely profitable venture. I mean, we have already put a GAV of about INR 20,000 crore on this right now, and honestly, by the time all our approvals are done across the next year, I think hopefully the price point should be even stronger. So this should actually prove to be a distinctly profitable product, which is addressing a micro market where we were not present. Understood. That's very helpful. And lastly, if you can give in terms of timelines of completion for the Hines project, and, and what is the plan post then in terms of DCCDL acquiring that and, and the Downtown project? Downtown, you want to share? Let me start with the Hines project. It's called The Atrium Place. Yeah. It is a 2.9 million development at this stage, spread in four towers. The towers start getting delivered by April, May next year, and go on till end of next year, beginning of 2026. So the first three towers are about 600,000 sq ft each, and the last tower is about 1 million sq ft. As far as Downtown is concerned, it's, as you know, a very large, multi-use development. Downtown two and three, of about 1.6-1.7 million, are already completed and running and rent yielding. Downtown four is expected to be delivered end of this year, early next year, with rentals starting in Q1 of the next year. That's about 2.1 million. The development of the phase two, as we call it, which is the Mall of India, Gurgaon, and about 4.6 million sq ft of offices, has already commenced. We have started the raft and ground preparation, et cetera, et cetera. The designs have been finalized. The drawings have been put for municipal approvals, and we are in the process of shortlisting the contractors to do this. This has been quite an intensive planning exercise because it is an integrated development of in excess of 7 million, which has a reasonably strong component of infrastructure development around the 36-acre site and on the service lanes and our lands around it. There is a small phase called, so-called, phase three, which is about 1 million sq ft, which we will do after we complete phase two of 7.5 million. Right. So phase two, you're saying for Downtown Gurugram, should get completed by end of this year? And for Chennai, phase one, when should that get completed as well? In Chennai, Downtown one and two, the occupation certificate has come. As we speak, the tenants are doing their fit outs. They are in an advanced stage, and most of the rentals should start coming in from next month onwards. As far as the third tower is concerned, which was with Standard Chartered Bank, that is going to be completed in July, August, and that's about the time Standard Chartered will take it on for their fit outs, and we expect the rental of that to start in the month of March 2025. March. That's great. And, and just lastly, if you can tell us, what was the exit rental for 2024 and your expectation of exit rental for 2025? That's all. Thank you so much. The exit rental of 2024 is INR 5,000-INR 5,100 crore, and the exit rental for the next year is INR 5,900-INR 6,000 crore. ...There's a major jump that will come up in rentals because of the completion of the certain towers in the two downtowns, and therefore, the rentals will be, will take a big bump up, in FY 2026. These are on the books of DCCDL. These do not include the rentals that will kick in for, the Hines joint venture on one side, and the two shopping plazas and the malls totaling to about 1.2 million being developed in the books of DLF, which are in the Midtown, in phase five, Gurgaon, and in Goa. Understood. That's very helpful. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Parvez Kazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead. The line for Parvez Kazi has been unmuted. May I request that you unmute your line from your side and go ahead with your question? As there is no response, may I request that we move to the next participant. The next question is from the line of Kunal Lakhan from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Yes, please go ahead. Yeah, good evening. Just on the guidance side, right, I mean, of INR 17,000 crore for next year. I mean, if you exclude the, Privana sales, Privana West sales already done, we're talking about, you know, incremental INR 11,500 crore, coming from, say, the residual, new launches worth of INR 30,000 crore odd. So I mean, that's like almost like a 40, about 35%-40% of sales from the new launches that you're expecting. You know, considering we have most of the projects that we have launched so far in the last couple of years, we have, we have sold out those projects. So this, you know, 40% of sales from, you know, or, or like the incremental launches getting 40% sold, for the rest of the year. Isn't that a little conservative? So, Kunal, I think, you know, your question is, I think, if I may say so, making the error of averaging. So let's analyze the launches we are doing, and then I'll hand over to Aakash. We have Lux 5, which in some sense is like the biggest launch that will happen at Privana and which is, you know, and which will be a product comparable or maybe better than the Camellias. Then we'll have the next phase of Privana coming in the later part of the year. We'll have the villa launch in Goa, and we'll have the Mumbai launch. So clearly, I think the Privana, Goa, and Mumbai launches, you know, should have very strong penetration of the total launch. Lux 5 being the kind of product that it will be, would obviously be a more strategic sale. Really, Aakash, I'll hand you over to how you plan to, you know, do that really. So I was going to say that also. So Lux 5 is a super luxury product, as you know. And you have seen, and I'm not saying that, it's going to take the same time as Camellias did, because Camellias was the first of its kind in that uber luxury, though we'd done Aralia, Magnolias, but Camellia was a completely game changer. So we, we did what we had to do, and at that point in time, regulations, markets, a lot of things, there were tremendous amount of headwinds. Having built on the Camellia story now, and which is now more plausible and, you know, where most of the people now, have accepted, and then not only accepted, but endorsed this, is now the Lux 5. So, this is not a product that can be advertised to sell, and this is not something that you will have, because the price points are going to be, reasonably high here per unit ones, and therefore, it will take that much time, to go through. So yes, the first year we'll have a certain amount of sales, and then every year with an incremental value, it will continue to go up and sell. The networks and the processes that we have set up over the years for Camellias are going to be, used, and, that's how we are going to be, going through it. Our teams on ground now are in place, for all the launches, and, yes, I mean, we are not going to stop at 17, if that's your question. But you're right, over the past few years, you've seen a certain amount of sales velocity and especially at launches, because we put in a lot of effort in launches, and therefore, it will go on as we have mentioned. But we are not going to stop at 17. So should the traction for a super luxury product get better, we know. Again, I go back to the point of it being, you know, the price points being at a certain value and above, and therefore, should there be more traction, we are not going to hold back. Yeah. But obviously, the Lux 5 being the kind of product that it is, will have a certain price trajectory that we have in mind and a slight customer profile that we have in mind. And obviously, within those two, I mean, if the total sales volume is higher than 17, you know, we'll be the happiest. Sure, sure. A follow-up to this is, like, you know, what are the timelines in terms of which quarters we plan to launch, say, Privana next phase, Goa, Mumbai, and then Lux 5? Yeah. So, Q2, we will have—you will see, Goa and maybe some friends and family of Lux 5. I mean, Q2 is going to be that. Q3 is going to be the main Lux 5 launch. Q4 is going to be Mumbai. That's how we planned it. So Goa will be Q2, and plus some of the residual sales and all that, that's how we've structured it. On Mumbai, Kunal, really, we have done, now done all the recce and the slum rehab, et cetera. So we believe that by end of September, we should have the complete site, not only of the stuff that we are launching, but the 2 million sq ft site completely cleared off, barricaded, access done, all approvals done. And after that, frankly, it's a question of, really, when does Aakash and the local execution team sort of decide to get to the market. But, given the fact that Q3, we may want to focus almost exclusively on the Lux 5 launch, Mumbai could either be towards the end of Q3 or early Q4. Understood. My second question was on, you know, if I look at the premium segment launches for the next year, and in fact, next few years, it's practically negligible. So any conscious strategy there to, you know, focus more on luxury or, and, you know, take a backseat on the premium side? So again, one is that this time we have tried to be slightly mathematical, that we have said anything which is more than 18,000-19,000 INR a sq ft, we have classified as luxury, you know. I mean, because in our older slides, Privana used to be classified as premium, but the fact is, if Aakash is getting a price points of 19,000+ now, I mean, really, it, it is luxury like the city flows. So part of that is there, but obviously, some of the launches that may not happen immediately in the future, but be it Tricity or be it New Gurgaon, would eventually be in the premium thing of, let's say the 10,000-15,000 INR a sq ft price points. So it's not a conscious choice, just that right now we are focusing on this segment, Aakash. Yeah. Also, it's... We are focusing on the geographies that we spoke about, and they come with these price points. So, there is no conscious strategy to push back premium. It's just that in the pipelines that you refer, for 25, are these products that are lined up, which are at a certain price and above. That's all. It's. There is, honestly, don't read anything beyond this. Understood. Just the last bookkeeping question. In Privana West, how much would have been sales from NRIs? About 27% has been NRI sales in Privana West. We've been seeing a steady growth. As you know, we started mining the NRI base from before Arbour time. And you know, we have a certain process to do that. NRIs are one of the most strongest allies as far as DLF is concerned, and we have not, you know, I'm happy to tell you, we've not invented anything new. DLF, since its early inception days, has had a good NRI participation. It was only after the 2010, when the markets collapsed and there were delivery issues and all that, that the NRIs faded away for other projects, and therefore, we were collateral damage also. But, if you go historically, and let me make this very clear, to everybody today, that the NRIs are not only, you know, a very strong support and have been over the last three decades for DLF, but also as far as payment structures are concerned, NRIs have always known to be holding properties. They are not fly-by-the-night investors. They are not investors who just, you know, get into for smaller returns. Also, it doesn't make financial sense for them to do that. So these are people who are, some of them, are ones who have visibility to come back to India in five years. Most of them rent these out. Some in super luxury, have kept them, for their, regular India travel. But I think this whole, you know, invest in India and especially invest in DLF, with the NRI system, has really worked, and we are continuing to make sure that we are mining it well. Sure. Sure. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, a reminder to all participants, to ask a question, please click on the Raise an Icon tab available on your toolbar or on the QA tab available on your screen. You may also post text questions on the Ask a Question tab available on your screen. For participants joining through the audio bridge, to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Sheth from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Firstly, just on Privana West, you know, congrats on second phase, successful launch of second phase. Just want to understand how different, you know, the demand characteristic was versus the first phase, even we had a little higher pricing, you know, so, you know, just your comment on that. So, Privana West, the qualitative nature of the demand this time has been, extremely encouraging. Again, as I say, there is a reasonably big and good demand from the corporates, entrepreneurs, NRIs and, you know, doctors, stock lawyers and also. So the demand has been good. Also, because please understand the positioning of Privana, what, you know, makes a project actually take its-... You've got the product, which is very superior. I can now give you, a comparison of what this product is going to be. It is the new Crest. So for those of you who have seen and heard about the Crest, Crest is the benchmark for Gurgaon today, in the luxury category. And not only in India, and not only in Gurgaon, I can safely tell you that Crest is the benchmark for a lot of people who want to emulate it, in their geographies. So happy to today announce to you that this is going to be in the same genre. That is the product. Then, of course, the connectivity is super for Privana. So whether it's the Mumbai Expressway, which is five minutes away, whether it is the Dwarka Expressway, which will take you to the airport in about 25-30 minutes, whether it is the Jaipur Expressway, you have the connections to Privana are probably the best Gurgaon can have. Then you are near a 10,000-acre hectare of a green lung, which is now becoming the most important priority for a lot of people who want to breathe the, you know, the freshest air in the morning. So all this, plus the DLF lifestyle promise, plus the ecosystems that we built, has added to this particular demand, and it's a very... You know, I'd be more than happy to share, you know, the kind of product mix that we've-- I mean, the, the, the customer mix that we've got today. It's, you know, it's very encouraging to see the kind of people who've come in. Also, the youngsters, as I say, I'm repeating it for the last one year, I'm seeing a very good shift, and that's where the base of real estate is increasing. I am seeing the 30 and above investing in our properties, and across the board. So I think that's where the Privana West story is. And with that, Privana is good going. Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, I mean, did the number of checks that you got, you know, were obviously higher than the number of units, and hence you have pulled forward the next phase to this year? Because earlier, we didn't see, you know, that, Privana launch happening this year. And are you looking at some higher, you know, a little premium product in Privana now in the third phase? Because, if I do some back-of-the-envelope calculation, we are getting an average realization of somewhere around INR 24,000-25,000. So is my calculation right, or, you know? No. So, Privana, the next phase of. Again, let me first tell you that it was always part of. I don't think we've pre-recorded it. It was always supposed to be towards the end and all that, that's something which is part of the whole launch plan. I know it's not about, it's not that much. I hope I can say, I hope it becomes 24, 25 soon. It will. But right now, I think, I don't want to speculate that, but definitely it'll be upwards of the INR 20,000, at least 10%-15% more than the INR 20,000 mark, for sure. But again, I reiterate, please understand, you know, where the demand is coming from. So what Crest was to DLF 5 is what the Privana is starting to become for the new Gurgaon business. And why this is happening is also, if you see, you know, American Express recently launched their biggest campus, which is, again, you know, minutes away from where the Privana is. Air India set up the largest hub there. You know, so hopefully other commercial investments are also going to be there. So Privana is starting to become the new DLF. I call it the DLF 6, but it is the natural progression for what it is, because it's the contiguous, it's over 100 acres and more of contiguous land that we have. So it's going to be one of the most prized possessions that people have. Again, I repeat, that this is not just—these are not just investors. Most of them, majority of them are people who are buying Privana for their end use. Also, because of the product being, you know, very homogenous in terms of the sizes, the quality of people and the mix is going to be what is actually attracting the people to invest in. Sure. And just one last on, you know, Lux 5. You know, how are you going to strategize the inventory, you know, that you're bringing to the market? Will it be purely, like, invitation-based, you know, targeting certain customers like we did for Camellias? And, how much of the sales is baked in in this INR 17,000 crore guidance from Lux 5, or- Yeah. -you would won't look it, that way? Yeah. So Lux 5 will be... You're right, Lux 5 will be a, an invitational, product, as was Camellias. I don't think there we'd like to dilute that at all. So Lux 5 will have the same, processes as, as Camellias was, and that is going to be by invitation, strictly by invitation. We will continue that whole process. We've got a very, very large network of people, that we touch base all over the world in India. I'm seeing the next demand of Camellias, coming from tier two cities, Kanpur, Calcutta, Bangalore, Ludhiana.... these are the few sales that, that happened now. So, people are wanting Bhubaneswar, people are wanting to now, if they have, if they spend some time in, in, in Delhi, people are genuinely now wanting to invest in this lifestyle of DLF 5 and, and super luxury and golf links. And, you know, these are serviced, fully serviced apartments and all. So I see that demand coming from there. The networks of these, people that we had presented to over the last 4, 5 years, we've got a very, very large base of people, that, we are going to be again reaching out to, which are already now with us, those databases. We don't need to go out. So that's how we are going to be approaching, I think. Right now, we've kept about 3,500 in this 17,500 to start with. But again, please don't read beyond this. This is as per plan, as per how much we can reach out and do. But like you said, should a good portion of that be taken, we are ready for that as well. But again, we are not ready to compromise on Lux 5 pricing at all. Or the quality of customers. Quality of customers is absolute priority. We've done that. We've shown it in the worst times. We've shown it at the time where everything was against us, yet we never compromised on any of our quality of customers. We will continue to do it with this little tailwind that we have. Perfect. That's pretty much helpful, Aakash. Thank you, and all the best to the team. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhinav Sinha from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Hi, sir, firstly on Privana again, when are we expecting the next phase? Is this the fourth quarter of the year? We are trying. Yes, please, we are trying to bring it around that time. Okay. And what are the delivery timelines we have on Arbour and Privana now? Is it, I mean, four years, five years? We have been saying five—I mean, as per our agreements are concerned, it is always five. But again, we have set up very robust construction, you know, mechanisms and systems, that if these things can be expedited, they will be. But these, they take that time. Okay. Tyagi sir, just a question on the large cash and debt balance that we had at the end of the quarter. So this is temporary or are we expecting some large payout? So, okay, so two things. If you look at the total cash balance that we have, it's about INR 6,000 crore, of which INR 4,000 crore is escrowed in the RERA 70% accounts. So those can be used only for construction and approvals really, and for little else. So practically, while we have a INR 6,000 crore cash balance, INR 4,000 crore is in the 70% RERA account, which is not accessible for general business purposes. Yes, the balance INR 2,000 crore, we believe, is maybe at least INR 70 crore-INR 1,000 crore higher than what we would like it to be. So I think we would want to eventually have that number stabilized around INR 1,000 crore. So I think that's a correction that you will see across the next two quarters. And hopefully, hence, that will also result while having now won the net debt war, the next focus is to win the gross debt war and also get the gross debt down to as near zero as possible. And for that, obviously, we can't control the RERA cash, but we can definitely control and be far more efficient in terms of the non-RERA cash. And the reason we obviously need to keep some non-RERA cash or at least non-RERA lines in terms of NCD lines, et cetera, is that when you have stuff like a land opportunity or something, then unfortunately, you can't use your bank borrowings for it, et cetera, because all of them come into prohibited uses. I mean, really, about INR 1,000 crore, we believe, is a number that we should maintain, which is free unencumbered cash, but beyond that, really, we don't need to. So yes, we are slightly excess right now, which we will correct. Okay, thank you. Sir, on RERA cash, can we use that to raise, say, debt elsewhere or it doesn't work like that? Yeah. So honestly, Abhinav, that is in the very, very dark gray zone, and we have not been tempted to do that. Got it. I don't think, you know- Fair, fair. I think. Fair. That's it. So what we do is that we put that money in FDs, so I'll tell you. So, yes, so while our debt raise is, I mean, the gross debt is about, say, 8.25-8.3%, the RERA FDs are fetching us about north of 7% in returns. So the negative arbitrage is about 100-125 basis points. But beyond FDs, we haven't really, you know, done anything more adventurous with the RERA cash, and neither should we. Okay. Sir, on DCCDL, and you know, I think last quarter we were mentioning that we are initiating the next round of transfers of the assets from DLF. So on this, are we decided on Atrium? I mean, is it like a transfer mechanism or we are still looking to sell when it is on DLF's balance sheet? On the Atrium, I'll tell you. A, Atrium, as Shriram said, is about 18 odd months away from a complete completion and rent stabilization. You know, frankly, on Atrium specifically, it will depend on two things: A, the 33% shareholder there, which is Hines and, and its LPs, what are their exit plans?...And we obviously, you know, what does Cyber City and its minority shareholder, GIC want? It's a great asset to be acquired, but frankly, I think we will cross that bridge once we come to it 18, 24 months down the line. Shriram? Yeah, absolutely. I think, the way to look at it is that, Hines, joint venture is 33% held by them, and it really depends on what they would like to do. But having said that, I do not foresee DLF being a seller of that asset. Yeah, yeah. So either we will continue, and they may want to give it to a third party, on which of course we have our majority rights, et cetera. We will cross that bridge when we come to it, which should be not less than two years from now. Yeah. Okay, and, but does this mean that we are leasing it out now, right? We are not selling it. No, no, no, no, we are going to lease it out- No? We are definitely not selling it. In fact, leasing has commenced in the last quarter. We have already leased out. Okay ... about 250,000 sq ft, and during the course of this year, the momentum will be far higher than that. Yeah. At about say, 140-150? Slightly higher than that. Slightly higher than that. Okay, excellent. And so lastly, on your presentation mentions double-digit PAT growth, and I'm assuming this is for the next few years. But just in FY 25, which projects from top-line perspective can contribute here? So, you're talking about the rental business or the offices or, or the- the DevCo, the development. So the point, as you know, that our profits are driven by projects which were sold four years back, and whose possession is being handed over now. So frankly, next year, again, in the fiscal 2024, 2025, the profits will still be driven by the possession letters being handed over for the residual Camellias, for a large chunk of the independent floors, which were launched, you know, around from 2021 onwards, and some other projects. Those will be the primary drivers of this. And obviously, the rental business will continue growing its rental portfolio, and hence their PAT will continue growing. But we are fairly confident, Abhinav, of a double-digit growth in PAT. Great. So thanks and all the best to the team. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Samar Sarda from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks. First of all, congratulations to everybody, INR 2,800 crore-INR 4,300 crore of OCF growth in a year is good. And, I also see a couple of sides of improvement on transparencies and disclosures. That goes a long way. I had three queries. One, Tyagi, you mentioned like we have roughly INR 4,000 crore of cash in the RERA accounts, probably 1,000-odd crore or 750-odd crore might be released every year. And out of the INR 2,000 crore of free cash, we have another 1,000-odd crore, which we can possibly deploy. Now- Correct. Our tone has been improving, like we've been a little more bullish in the last few quarters with sales improving and the market is buoyant. So you, you've entered Bombay, you've like, seen the market for the last four years. From an investment perspective, the sight is clear. But wouldn't it be a good opportunity to invest into the market for newer projects right now, versus waiting for the launch of your first project and then evaluating projects for investment? That was my first question. Okay. So Samar, in all fairness, since the launch is now barely six months away, I think, you know, I mean, in a project, six months to DD. So frankly, let's just look at how this is. I mean, in all fairness, that project, while we had sort of, you know, in our public disclosure, mentioned 2 million-odd sq ft as the phase one, I mean, potentially that, that project has an eventual potential of almost 4.5-5 million, if they are joining, you know, rehabs and all continue on track. So that itself can be a significant micro, you know, a significant project over time. But again, let's do the first 1 million, see how it goes, and then keep on doing step by step. But at some stage, obviously, you are saying that, you know, Mumbai could... I mean, we have always said that Mumbai, maybe Noida, these are the couple of geographies where we would love to, you know, sort of, expand our footprint if we can get the right parcels. Samar, if I can just come in here. Aakash here. So, this is just the beginning for Mumbai. So to your point also, I think we are not going to stop here. It's just that, you know, sometimes you're coming into a completely new territory. I think, you know, as a company, we've always been cautious. But doesn't mean that if something good comes by tomorrow, we are not going to look at it. But I think, right now, we are coming into Mumbai. We've worked hard to at least understand how those systems work there. And I think we will, you know, we have our—in our, let's say, sales processes, we have a certain way of doing it. I think, Mumbai is completely different from those things, so we still have to adapt to all of that. But there will be, you will, you know, if there are good parcels and good opportunities, as a company, we will look in. And Samar, I mean, I'm sorry to belabor this point, but please understand, while this hopefully will be a good experience for us, the Mumbai project, I mean, we are—we still are sort of, you know, I mean, in that sense, fighting the other Mumbai battle, the one on our earlier JV, and that, as you know, hasn't turned out to be a pleasant experience. So I think, you know, we also need to resolve that over time. ... Just like before going to Gurgaon, like Gurgaon, in your core market, other than phase five, you've been, like, usually selling out at launch. So, Bombay is a little different market. But I understand, you were doing two and a half BHKs, probably three, three and a half BHKs, much smaller units versus, like what you're offering in Gurgaon and Bombay. But for your first launch, would you be, like, looking to pre-sell at launch or like, sell, like what others do in market that sell 55, 60% at launch and then over a period of time? So, we would, for us, as far as how we operate, as you've seen us also, you know, we would like to do as much as we can during launch. Then, of course, take up, and whatever inventory that we consciously choose to keep back, that will be at incremental values for sure. But again, as I said, I don't want to comment on Mumbai till we actually launch. We will take about at least a quarter to kind of get to timing and everything else. But yes, I mean, how we kind of operate will be at launch maximum, and then should we have anything left, that will be done at incremental values. If I may ask one more, this is particularly on Gurugram. Like, we've seen pricing of, like, Aralia in the secondary market go from, what, 7-9 crore to right up to 35-40 crore now. Camellias, of course, is gone up beyond 60. In the last two years, especially FY 2023, FY 2024, we've done round about INR 13,000 crore in Gurugram, ±, the company. This year, probably, if Privana, like, the next phase is sold out, and assuming, like, some sales in Lux 5, we'll probably end up doing INR 15,000-16,000 crore in Gurugram itself. How do we build confidence that this number could go to, like, INR 17,000-20,000 crore in Gurugram in this cycle, in the next two years? Like, what are the catalysts for that? Like, how could investors build a little more confidence around that? See, the investors are today looking at- No, no, sorry, one thing. So I'll tell you, the problem, Samar, and I'm sorry for being, getting slightly... and frankly, you guys don't understand markets beyond Mumbai, with due respect. Gurgaon today is a market which is as deep, possibly, not the size, but in terms of depth, as Mumbai. It has four or five distinct micro markets. Frankly, if we want, I mean, Gurgaon is a market which can possibly absorb a number which is significantly higher than the 15-16 that we are offering. So please, at least in this cycle, we should not be worried about the depth of the Gurgaon market. When the cycle crashes, unfortunately. But I mean, the last thing we should be worried about is the depth of the Gurgaon market. Yeah. Also- Mr. Tyagi, we are actually trying to understand how much we can grow. Yeah, In infinite growth here. Since you've said it, I let me just say, how many of us believe that, you know, the ROG story today will be 20,000 in a span of. You know, when I got into this market, I'll be very honest with you, even some of you were talking about 14,000, you know, some said 12,500, and all that. So, but again, you know, let our customers today are also very well informed. You know, as long as you build an ecosystem which is, you know, there is today, what has happened is the residential real estate, to answer your question, has become a priority for post-COVID. Most of the people, in fact, all age groups, I'm saying this again, 30 and above, 40 and above, people earlier, you know, you would buy good real estate only after maybe 45 years of age. Today, I am seeing that change in a big way, and therefore that huge set of customers have come into the system. So today, what I'm seeing is a change in pattern of young investors wanting to invest in residential real estate. Okay? So today, if you see, and as investments are growing, newer markets are coming up. So like Mumbai, you've got so many, you know, large segments, it's, of investments across Mumbai. So is Gurgaon, as what Mr. Tyagi was saying. Four very distinct markets have emerged, which is the whole Privana ecosystem. That's one which is... I think it can carry on for the next five years. You've got, you know, one of you asked about this project of, the one that you just acquired on Golf Course Extension. Yeah. It's actually is a actual extension of the Golf Course Road. So that is, again, something that we worked so hard, this entire ecosystem of the DLF Golf Club, Golf Course Road, Raghvendra Marg. That's just it. You know, one ends, and the other begins. Then, of course, it's a super luxury DLF 5. You yourselves have put about INR 130,000 crore worth of, you know, future developments just in DLF 5 alone. Then you've got the erstwhile Phase 1, 2, 3, 4, also where the people are coming from. So today, Gurgaon has become the preferred choice for, you know, people returning, whether NRIs returning, whether corporates, whether, you know, business families. The best of schools are in Gurgaon, the best of leisure, the best golf course in the country is in Gurgaon. You know, the best restaurants today have moved to Gurgaon. So please understand where this trend is coming from. I think the residential piece or the depth that you are talking about is last in queue of all that's already happening. So there's a huge change in Gurgaon, and let me, you know, invite you all for at least a 2-3-day trip here, so that I think then we can build more confidence first in you all, and then we will address the customers later. Yeah, but don't worry, Samar. I mean, so there is enough depth here. There is... At one time, we used to think "... INR 5,000 crore se beyond nahi absorb hoga," and we are already now in, in the mid-teens now. And we are not the only player in town. There are other players also in town, both listed and unlisted, who are doing their own sales. So I think, the market is showing enough legs, at least for now. Also infrastructurally, Gurgaon- Yeah. If you see what has happened in Gurgaon today in the last 2, 3 years, if you see the New Gurgaon, the expressways that I talked about Yeah. This bullet train that is coming from Ahmedabad to Gurgaon in 3.5 hours, all of these things are being announced and being worked on, on ground. So if you see, there is, it is, actually, you know, going to give Mumbai a run for its money. I mean, it's a conscious, informed choice that the customers are taking to invest in Gurgaon. That's fair. Thanks for this. And just one last small data query. You've guided for sales conservatively guided for sales for FY 25, and even for collections growth. Given that we do collect heavy at our launches as well as during construction, it is safe to assume that despite adjusting for Chennai collections, the land sale collections, we will grow beyond INR 4,300 crore for FY 25 as well? Yes. That's a very fair assumption, sir. Thank you all, and all the best for FY 25. Thank you. Thank you. So the next question is a text question from the line of Raghav Agarwal, who is an investor: Will your margins sustain at current levels, and is there any scope of margin expansion? Okay. So Raghav Ji, basically, the margins, frankly, with the launch of Lux 5 will only expand, that is very clear. In fact, as we have always guided that, our current margins are in the range of the late 30s-40, and I think post Lux 5, our weighted average margins will clearly be in the mid- to late 40s as a combined percentage, and I think that that's where we are. Our reported financial results will broadly be on the lines of where they were this year, because they again, are reflecting the sales and, sales done 4 years, 5 years back, and the positions happening now. But, in terms of the margins embedded in the pre-sales, I think we are clearly talking of a mid-40s now. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead. Yes, and probably, Hi, good afternoon. Sorry, I got dropped off, earlier. So two questions from my side, sir. First, when we look at our launch pipeline, either for FY 25 or, or even beyond, a bulk of it is, related to the luxury segment. And now my question is regarding more the absolute ticket size rather than pricing. Do we have any thought process of looking at projects, let's say, in the premium segment, let's say somewhere between INR 3 crore-INR 5 crore? And I, by that I mean apartments and not independent floors which we had launched. So do we have any thought process towards that segment, in Gurgaon or even outside? Yeah. So at least, Parvez, the markets that we are operating in, which is the Golf Course Road, potentially the Golf Course Extension Road and the current Privana, and maybe a couple of other high-rises that will come in the DLF City area, frankly, these will definitely be in the INR 5 crore+. I mean, these, I think none of them will be less than INR 7 or 8 crores, really. So you are right. But at some stage, I think there will be opportunities in the New Gurgaon area, where potentially you could have apartments in the INR 5 crore range, you know, I mean, high-rise apartments. I mean, we are just, let's see how that market evolves. But you are right, I mean, we have a bias towards the, towards the sort of, you know, what you call luxury, but which clearly, I mean, high-rise apartments in that price point. And we believe there's enough depth in the market, at least for the level that we are talking about, for it to be absorbed. And frankly, if we have to deploy our bandwidth, we'd rather deploy it there, so where are the margins. Similarly, in Delhi, the Delhi again will be this, the One Midtown now, the four-bedroom is again in the same price points. They are upwards of INR 8 crore. Upwards, I was talking about. Sure. So my second question was regarding One Midtown. When can we see the next phase getting launched? I mean, not, I'm not talking about the existing inventory, but when can the next phase get launched? Next phase, as in? The new project? Beyond the... Yeah. Okay. So you're talking of the next or the... Okay. So, as you know, after One Midtown is complete, we have a 7 million sq ft potential development, which I think we will, once we are, we have delivered One Midtown, we'll, we'll be as anywhere in the pre-design phase of it. Let's see, but I think that may be, I'd say, 18 months away from a launch standpoint. ... Sure. And lastly, just wanted to get our thoughts on, we had applied for some de-notification of SEZs. So what is the progress there, and how do we see the roadmap? De-notification of SEZs. The de-notification of SEZs happened some time ago, but there was a difference in the government on the way the duty, which was saved by the developers at the time of construction, had to be clawed back. Fortunately for that, the Department of Revenue and the Ministry of Finance issued the clarifications about a month back, and now it should gather pace. As far as the DLF SEZ portfolio is concerned, we were able to get the in principle board of approvals in the Ministry of Commerce for certain areas in the SEZ in Gurgaon and the Silokhera SEZ, for which now the duty has been assessed by the customs officers. We are in the process of paying it in the next 3-4 days, and then these floors will be available to us for leasing. This is about 800,000-900,000 sq ft. The proposals for the Chennai SEZ, Hyderabad SEZ, and Kolkata SEZs are have been submitted, but the board of approval has said that you first pay the duties before you come back to us. We are in the process of getting those assessed, and we should complete that in the next 10-15 days and apply for de-notification of floors there also. The good news is that some of the floors in Chennai and some of the floors in SEZs in Gurgaon have been leased in the March quarter, subject to the de-notification coming. So as soon as these denotifications come, we will hand it over to the tenants for their fit-outs. The leasing teams are in the market to lease the balance of the floors. Mr. Parvez has left the queue. May we move to the next question? The next question is from the line of Puneet Gulati from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you so much. My first question is on this launch pipeline of 33,000 for luxury segment. Is it possible to break it between you know Lux 5 you said is INR 3,500 crore. How much would be others, if you can break it between the segments and Mumbai? So, Puneet, this is the launch pipeline. So, you know- Yes. The INR 3,500 crore is the indicative sales for the year on Lux 5. You know, it, it is not- Okay. The launch pipeline is a multiple of that, you will realize. Right. So all I'd say is that this is a combination of the Lux 5 launch and the select phase, the next two phases of the Privana launch and a couple of other launches that we are looking at. But obviously this is a constantly evolving pipeline, you know, in that sense. Hopefully, if 12 months from now, we launch that Sector 61, that itself will add a significant chunk to this pipeline. So this is a pipeline which is constantly evolving, and obviously it keeps on getting utilized by the sales that are done, but the new launches keep on adding to the pipeline. So, so- Privana itself, overall about a 17 odd million sq ft development, of which only the first 7 million have been launched so far. Yeah. Yeah. So out of the 33,000-35,000, roughly, can we assume 11,000-12,000 coming from Privana, 7,000 maybe coming from Lux 5? And, and Mumbai, if you can give a similar number. A, Mumbai, we are right now, I mean, Mumbai is anyway a number which is the Mumbai, this particular launch, is a number between INR 2,000 crore-INR 2,500 crore, as you know. Okay. We will not be willing to, I mean, able to give a breakup, but Lux 5, the total launch pipeline of Lux, Lux 5, will be a number almost approaching INR 20,000 crore. Understood. Secondly, if you can, you know, share some of your thoughts on how you think about- What we have. Yeah. So INR 20,000 crore for Lux 5, you said? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Out of 33, INR 20,000 crore is Lux 5. No, not out of 33. 33 has the next phases of the Privana. After that more phases will come later. This is like a- Uh. You know, this is what we have right now planned for. There's obviously more phases which are not being- Yeah. planned for right now. I'll just- No, no, sure, sure. Just the breakdown of the plan, which I'm trying to understand. Puneet, I'll just qualify that Lux five statement. Lux five is closer to INR 30,000 crore. Just Lux five. Yeah. Yes. And in this, how much is Lux 5, is what I'm keen to know. This right now is just 3,500. But again, as Mr. Tyagi is saying, please don't take it from... Uh. This is a launch pipeline. Sometimes- Yes. It adds to it. Puneet, Puneet, don't get into microanalytics of this number. Kuldeep will give you offline. But don't get into microanalytics. These are directional indicative numbers. Okay. Understood. Understood. That's helpful. Secondly, if you can give some color on how are you thinking about pricing appreciation in the Gurgaon market, and if you are keen also to enter the Dwarka Expressway market, where you are not there so far? Okay, so I'll answer the second question first. No, I'm not at this point in time, Dwarka Expressway, because we've got a lot of our land to monetize. As you all started today by talking about this new Golf Course Extension development. As far as pricing is concerned, I think one thing that you have to please understand, that we have always come out with very responsible pricing. ... even during the Privana or other stories, Dwarka Expressway and all those prices were going ballistic. And as you see, that major correction that has happened now. So I don't think we are, you know, going to go into a market with the expectation of milking it, you know, on the first day. We are not that kind of a company. We like to build legacies. We like to build a price appreciation story, which where we want it, it has to be an inclusive growth story, where the customer has to benefit first, you know? And that is what we've known for over the last seven decades. We've always kept a lot of money on the table. So there is a price appreciation model. I will go back to saying that Gurgaon is the preferred destination for residential sales in the country today. And there is a price appreciation model that we'd like to keep. We've demonstrated it in Privana, and in four months, we've taken it up by INR 50 lakh a unit almost. So you will see that continuously happening. You will also see price appreciations, good price appreciations, in the Super Lux launch between what the earlier Magnolias or, you know, was to the new Lux 5. It'll not compare immediately with Camellias, but I'm sure it'll overtake Camellias in no time. You will see a price increase there as well. And therefore, whether it is the floors or anything else that we have done, there will be in every zone that we are doing, you will see a 3-5-year price escalation in system, and in terms of revenues will go up for our existing customers, who kind of bought into us during launch and all, and the sustainability will continue to go up. We are demonstrating it right now. I'm not even talking about the future. Understood. That's helpful. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashok Tyagi for closing comments. So thank you, everybody, for, you know, coming across for our call. Hopefully, we have been able to address most of your queries. If in case there are some unaddressed queries or details, you may please write to Kuldeep, and he will organize the requisite answers, you know? And last few quarters have been very encouraging on residential and commercial, both segments, and we hope that the overall macro winds continue to, you know, be positive for the industry as a whole and for us. And we'll continue, you know, driving both the engines, the commercial engine and the residential engine, hopefully to stronger growth. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of DLF Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.