Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the eMudhra Limited Q4 FY24 earnings conference call, hosted by IIFL Institutional Equities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Saurabh Thadani from IIFL Institutional Equities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Rayo. Good evening, everyone, and thanks for joining us today on the Q4 FY24 earnings call of eMudhra Limited. On behalf of IIFL Institutional Equities, I would like to thank the management of eMudhra for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Today, we have with us on the call Mr. Venkatraman Srinivasan, Executive Chairman, Mr. Ritesh Raj Pariyani, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Kaushik Srinivasan, Senior Vice President, Product Development, and Mr. Arvind Srinivasan, Senior Vice President, International Sales and Strategy. I will hand over the call to Mr. Venkatraman Srinivasan to give the opening remarks and take the proceedings forward. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Saurabh. My thanks to all of you for joining this conference, and, good afternoon to all of you. A warm welcome to our Q4 FY 2024 earnings conference call. I'm happy to address you today and share our quarterly results and also annual results. I am pleased to announce that we have delivered strong performance with significant growth in all the metrics. Our total income for the quarter increased by 30.5% on a year-on-year basis, and accompanied by growth of around 39.9% and 34.2% on a year-on-year basis in EBITDA and PAT, respectively. For the year as a whole, for the year ended March 31, 2024, the total income increased by 49.6% as compared to the earlier year, and EBITDA for the whole year increased by 25.8% and PAT by 24.8%, which is a significant improvement over the period. During FY 2024, we have made significant progress in penetrating our solutions into global market, aiding businesses in their transition towards Zero Trust. Traceability, verifiability, and security are increasingly important as business continue to adopt digital technologies as a way of doing business. In this context, public key infrastructure and digital signature certificates embed identity and security, allowing a far more robust security architecture as part of any digital data or document exchange. We continue to address mission-critical use cases as part of our enterprise solutions business, consisting of our paperless office and cybersecurity suite of offerings. By addressing various use cases across sectors and industries, we have been able to acquire new customers and expand our reach within the existing customer base as they mature through their journey of digital adoption and enhancing cybersecurity. Our paperless office product, emSigner, continues to see strong demand from several large customers globally, as it is seen as a platform of choice for solving complex document signing workflows in industries such as BFSI, pharma, et cetera. Additionally, our emTA solution is gaining traction as businesses shift towards more secure authentication methods, moving away from traditional passwords. Incremental sales come from upselling emTA and emDiscovery, where they adopt PKI and digital signature certificate-based authentication scope authorization for ensuring stronger access control. We have been able to significantly grow our international businesses by focusing on sales and marketing. Our focus has been on establishing a strong market presence directly in regions like North America, which have advanced the digital technology adoption, and in the Middle East and Africa, where there is a strong e-governance agenda centered on digital transformation and cybersecurity with Zero Trust principles. The acquisition of Ikon has been successful, enabling us to leverage cross-selling and upselling opportunities across both Ikon's and eMudhra's offering to our client base. In the India market, where demand remains strong, we changed our strategy by unbundling hardware from our contracts. This change reduces reliance on third-party suppliers and also helps mitigate delays in project delivery and receivables. On trust services, we have a strong market presence in India, resulting in healthy growth and stickiness for our retail and direct-to-consumer sale of digital signature certificates. This resulted in strong growth for trust services, as partners and customers want to work with a reliable digital signature provider who can provide quick identity vetting and strong support, particularly during peak issuance periods. eSign continues to see traction, along with other offerings, such as eStamping, as BFSI capital markets move towards paperless transformation. We continue to focus on SSL/TLS certificate as part of our certificate lifecycle management product, emDiscovery, helping us differentiate from a pure play SSL/TLS players. Our R&D efforts are focused on reimagining security in the context of quantum computers, edge computing, and data privacy. In line with this, we have already embarked on R&D in post-quantum cryptography, fully homomorphic encryption, and mobile PKI. To summarize, we see continued opportunity in our space as digital transformation and movement to Zero Trust as a result of cyber threats continue to be the top of the main agenda for many large organizations. At eMudhra, we will continue to invest in building product depth, service capabilities, and market reach to effectively address these opportunities. So during the year, key project wins partnered with a large IT outsourcing for the use of our managed PKI platform with SSL/TLS certificates. This has enabled securing website devices and enterprise IT infrastructure. Rollout of national PKI infrastructure for a country in Africa to build digital signature infrastructure, remote signing capabilities, and use cases for paperless transformation. Implementation of e-signature workflow product for a mid-sized technology firm in North America for legal, procurement, and human resources paperless transformation. Implementation of private PKI for custom of certificates for a mid-sized IT firm in the U.S. Partnered with BFSI clients in India for emSigner, eSign, and eStamping for process automation and paperless transformation in lending, onboarding, and other workflows. Rollout of emCA platform for a wing of the defense forces for secure authentication and encrypted data communication within their network. Rollout of PKI infrastructure for a large private sector corporate in Indonesia for issuance of digital signature certificates, remote signing, and training use cases for paperless transformation. Implementation of our emCA suite of product for a large government customer in India, focused on delivery of citizen services. Rollout of integrated access management and authentication platform for a very large bank in India. Continued deal wins in India plus BFSI for emSigner, eSign, and eStamping for process automation and paperless transformation in lending, onboarding, and other workflow. Consulting engagement in establishment of digital signature infrastructure in a progressive country in Africa. Rollout of public key infrastructure, authentication, and access management solution for a defense agency in India. Upgradation of e-signature platform for a surveying authority and single window operator in West Africa. Rollout of e-signature platform for paperless transformations of customs authority in Middle East. Rollout of e-signature platform for a large urban development company in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Rollout of eSign for bank official for a large public sector bank for digitally signed approvals to enhance transparency in India. Other business highlights, certification of emSigner for SAP SuccessFactors for easy signing of HR onboarding documents. Listing of emSign on AWS and Azure Marketplace for easy consumption of SSL certificate by customers already using these platforms. Use of Generative AI in driving significant efficiency in customer responses via our email channel for our digital signature customers. These are the highlights. Now I request Mr. Ritesh Pariyani to take us through the financial performance of the company. Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, everyone. I hope you all are doing well. Let me begin by sharing the key financial for Q4, financial year 2024. We are pleased to announce that our revenue from operation in Q4, financial year 2024, was INR 996.9 million, a year-on-year growth of 29.8%. The revenue growth was driven by the strong performance in trust services in international markets. There was a rise in the enterprise solution segment, which generated a revenue of INR 2,687 billion, reflecting a year-on-year growth of 64.1%. While the trust services revenue grew by 22.8% year-on-year to INR 1,044 million. The operational revenue for financial year 2024 was INR 8,371.2 million, representing a year-on-year growth of 50%. In Q4, financial year 2024, EBITDA rose to INR 363 million, a 39.9% increase year-on-year, with a margin of 35.2%. Net profit reached to INR 212 million, up by 34.2% year-on-year, with margin of 20.6%. For financial year 2024, EBITDA was INR 1,164.8 million, with a margin of 30.6%, and the net profit was INR 763.5 million, with a margin of 20.1%. There has been a strong EBITDA and PAT growth despite increased investment into sales and marketing. Now I request Chairman to take the podium. Yeah. Now we have explained from our side. We can take the question and answer. Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask questions, please press star and one. Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to ask questions, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. We have the first question from the line of Parikshit Kabra from PKV Advisors LLP. Please go ahead. Hi. Hi, thank you for taking my question. I have a couple of them. First, I was wondering what caused the sudden spike in the trust business? Q4 isn't usually the one where we see a sudden jump, so I'm just wondering why this pleasant surprise? Oh, pleasant surprise is because, around September end, we increased the price by 2.5 x So until March to September, price was very low. Then we increased the price. Then the others also, because there could not be any alignment, so we increased unilaterally, then the others also increased. So then it then some people increased, not to the extent of what we increased. There was some, they increased a lower extent, so we also had to little bit reduce and all that. So but anyway, it almost settled at more than 2 x realization of- through the channel, not through the retail. In the retail, price remained the same. So through channel, the realization remained much higher in the third quarter and the 4Q. Half of third quarter, full of 4Q. So that's where the trust business has really gone up in the 4Q. And one more incidental thing also I will explain relating to the trust business. So the thing, what is happening is now, the CCA has issued a new guidelines that starting from July first of this year, we cannot sell any stock to any of the partners. Every sale has to be made individually to the retail people, but the partners can introduce and get the commission, so that kind of a new model is coming. So this new model, we are completely revamping the software and all that. If it works well, then the, then it could fetch a good price, but we have to wait and see how the new model will work and what will be the role of the partners in the new model and all that. That is the development as far as the trust business is concerned. Got it. And secondly, I noticed that, in the presentation you had mentioned, an opening order book for financial year 2025 at INR 149 crore, around about that number. Right. In previous year, this has grown by 25%, and I think previous year also, we have given a guidance that we can look at a 2-2.2 multiple on the ordering on the order book to get a sense of the, you know, what the revenue would be this year. Yes. Would you continue with the same guidance, or should we expect around INR 320-330 from the enterprise business? Yeah. This order, again, if you see, this is excluding our services business. For example, if you take, we acquired Ikon Tech Services, and then we also started doing services from India also for some of the banks and also for the Middle East banks and all that. So this order book is predominantly for the enterprise solutions business. So if it is INR 148 crore and two times, it is around INR 300 crore, mainly for the solution business from... Plus the services business and the trust services business, can be there. So that's why we think that maybe we may be able to do almost a 25%-30% growth in revenue in the coming year, based on this, what our historical performance. Got it. So can you please expand a little bit on the solutions business, and how much revenue has that generated this year? On the solution business? Yes. Because if you see the total solution and services, we have put around INR 268 crore as the total solution and services. In this INR 268 crore, I would say almost INR 200 crore would have been generated out of solution. INR 68 crore-INR 70 crore would have been generated, solution and services related to solutions. INR 68 crore-INR 70 crore may be direct cybersecurity and other solution, which is not related to our product. Sorry, I'm not sure I understood that correctly. So you said that, out of the solution was service- If you see the presentation, in the key business indicator, we put INR 268 crore as the solution and services. Okay. On page 16. Page 16. I'm just getting there. Page 16. Yes. On that, almost INR 200 crore is our own solution and services relate implementation, customization, and all those things related to solution. Another INR 68 crore will be the services arising out of Ikon, and we have also started service solution, and we are servicing certain large banks in the Middle East and all that, so that will be INR 68 crore, INR 68 crore. Got it. And how do you think this solutioning business, the services business will be growing? It is growing in line with the rest of the business, the 25%-30% growth? Or are you- Yes. expecting that to be... No, no, it is growing in a... Because the cybersecurity-related services, there is a good demand in the market. That will also grow in almost, if not 28%, at least 20% it can grow. Got it. Got it. What about the India enterprise business? Of course, I noticed that this quarter there was in fact a loss in the business in the segmental results. I know we are changing strategies, so the revenue has also been declining. Are we foreseeing a challenge in the next financial year, or do you think it will stabilize at around INR 15 crores a quarter? In the India enterprise business, what we are doing is, because the large chunk is coming from the government business. In the government business, we were also bundling the hardware, but now the receivables is becoming very high, mainly because of the India government business. So the India government receivable itself could be INR 40 crore or something out of this total receivable of INR 100 crore. That's where we want to, not to bundle the hardware, we want to only sell our software and then leave the bundling of the hardware to the other system integrators. So that's where the revenue increase is not commensurate, but our aim is to gradually reduce the receivables and minimize our risk also. So this is where it is. But what you are saying, INR 15 crore per quarter, can definitely continue. Okay. So, basically, what I'm trying to gauge is that our trust business can see a further upside potentially with this new pricing that has come in. Our India enterprise business is going to be remain where it is, and our international enterprise business is going to be growing by around 25%-30%. Yes. So that's why on the whole, what I said is around, we are estimating 25%-30% growth on the whole. Okay, so on the whole- Something may go here and there, but on the whole, one would compensate the other. Got it. Got it. And then I'll just slip in this last question. There is a national PKI infrastructure that you're developing for an African country. Would it- would I be wrong in getting overexcited about it, to think that it is a massive opportunity? Because subsequent, after making the ecosystem, you'll get plenty of opportunities for different use cases to expand your business. Yes, yes, definitely. But still it has all not materialized. A lot of discussion is going on, mainly in Kenya and Tanzania and also in Rwanda, Uganda and one more Ethiopia, but those things are finally materialized. Got it. And how is the U.S. traction coming along? Are you seeing incremental improvement quarter, this quarter? Yeah, yeah, improvement is there, and further improvement will also be there, mainly both, both the segment, in paperless segment and also the trust service segment. So a lot of POCs going on. We are doing the POC. Some are getting converted into order and all that. Anything, Kaushik, you would like to supplement anything on the U.S.? No, I think on the ground, quite a bit of traction is going on. Like our chairman said, number of POCs, various mid-market sort of deal wins, and we're also focused on trying to get into some of the larger enterprises. Got it. All right. Thank you so much, and good luck. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from Nitin Sharma, from MC Pro Research. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks. Congratulations on good set of numbers. A couple of questions. First of all, help us understand, is this margin of 33% sustainable? And if yes, then how should we see it for the full year, FY 2025? Can you repeat the question slightly? Not audible. Yeah. So, the margin, EBITDA margin in the Q4 was 33%. So is it sustainable? And if yes, what should we expect for full year FY25? Full year, we feel taking 30% will be safer, not 33%, because somewhere some risk could come. So we feel 30% EBITDA margin and could be safer. But another thing is on the PAT margin, generally, we were saying 20%, but now even in the Middle East, Dubai, also taxation has come. Other countries also, taxation is coming, so we feel that on the whole, the PAT margin can be 18%-20% instead of taking 20%. Understood. And, secondly, is it possible for you to break out your order book in terms of product? Order book, that's what we... Based on product, that's what we said, that the solution order book is INR 148.6 crore. So on that number of larger orders are now towards the cybersecurity, and we have also given splits somewhere, that the cybersecurity 74% and the paperless transformation is 26%. So most lot of big orders are relating to cybersecurity. So maybe the pending order also may be in the same proportion. Understood. Thank you. I will get back to you. Yeah. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and one. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Saurabh Thadani from IIFL Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, and congrats on a strong operational performance. My first question is a follow-up on the order book. Can you give us a sense of demand from the key geographies, your existing ones, Middle East, India, versus some of the newer geographies that you are trying to enter, just to get a sense of how demand is progressing across the key geographies? Now, key geographies, the demand is very good from India as well as from the... Because there are several large government projects going on, so that way the demand is good. In the Middle East also demand is good. In Africa, we expect a lot of order coming in the coming year, because a lot of- as I said, a lot of discussions are going on in Tanzania, Kenya, Rwanda, Uganda, and also in Ethiopia. Then some more, some more discussion is also going in Ghana and other places. So this is one thing. Then the other thing is the USA. In USA, number of POCs are going on, both from the emSigner side and also the emTA side. So that's another place where we can come. But Europe is still not, not very, too much of this thing is not happening. Some small, small businesses are happening. So that's where we are trying to see how we can put a senior person who can get into the European market and improve. So as of now, if you see, Europe is still not caught up to the level of Middle East and Europe, US. And similarly, Indonesia also, a lot of new things are emerging. But Philippines, another area where we have put a senior person and then see how we can go Philippines. But up to now, it has not picked up the momentum. So everywhere, wherever the momentum has already picked up, it is good. Wherever momentum is lower, we are putting very senior people, and then try to see how we can pick up momentum in those geographies. That would increase the cost, but I think it can also offset the usage. Got it. And on the digital trust services, any view on the sustainability of the pricing uptick that we've taken? You mentioned that we took a higher uptick, and then we had to cut our prices a bit because competition didn't increase prices at the same rate. Going forward, how do you see sustainability of the pricing where it stands right now for, say, FY 25? FY 25, I think it will be sustainable because this, I, as I explained, from July, the model is again changing, no? So the CCA is mandating that we have to sell only to end customer, and then for the partner, only commission can be paid, stock cannot be transferred to the partner. So this will be altogether a new model. So in this, what will happen is the revenue can grow higher, but commission cost will also grow higher. So net-net, what will be the balance that we have to see how the other people do and all that. But on the whole, the net realization, what we receive as of now, I don't think it will come down. Only thing is we, because we have to directly reach the retail instead of through the partner, how, what will be the role of the partner? How many partner will be in business? How many may not be in business? Because of that, would there be any effect on the, volume of signatures to be sold? So all these a little bit, we have to wait and see. But otherwise, on the effective realization, I think it may only increase and this cannot go down. Got it. And within, again, digital services, the new products segment that is flattish YOY. Any reasons? I mean, is there any particular product within that that is not growing while the others are growing? Any color on the new product? Growing, but started growing mainly in the 4Q, so the result will be seen in the coming years. Because the eSign has started growing really well, but the SSL is still not growing well, but we have to... That's why we are more positioning the SSL along with this emSign Hub, where directly they can identify and also replace the signature and all that. Instead of a commodity market, we are trying to aim at a niche market for this, for as a emSign Hub. Maybe, Kaushik, you can explain a little on this. Yeah, Saurabh. So what is happening is, in SSL/TLS, again, there are, you know, a few other players. So as against positioning pure play SSL/TLS, only the certificates, now larger enterprises really require the need for capabilities of how you discover the certificates, how do you renew and provision. That is where, if you recollect, we built a product, emDiscovery, which has also further been enhanced with a lot of additional capabilities. So we are positioning it as an integrated offering rather than selling standalone SSL/TLS. So like our chairman said, I think in the coming, you know, few quarters, there'll be hopefully increased momentum on that. Very clear. One last question from my side. On the margins, right? I think we've seen a pretty sharp uptick in this quarter on sequential margins. Can you just maybe highlight what were the key drivers that led to this kind of margin improvement, and where we are on the journey of increasing sales and marketing in some of the key geographies where we are like, where we are looking to penetrate? The margin, I will explain, then I will request Arvind to explain about the international positioning and marketing. On the margin, if you see this quarter alone, the margin increased because of the good jump in the trust services business, and also lower hardware composition in the overall sales. So those two resulted in the margin improvement. So but on the whole, for the whole year, we are still conservatively thinking that we may, we should work on this 30% EBITDA margin and not on 33%-34% margin, but if we achieve it, it's good. So this is what we are, our thinking as of now, right? Then on the international expansion side and where we are going, maybe Arvind can explain. Yeah, sure. Yes, so on the marketing and positioning side, we're doing a lot of work, and in fact, we adopted some technology to drive a lot of automation and specificity as well across regions. So the focus really is that, you know, because we have the cybersecurity and paperless to target specified user groups, so business verticals and segments with specific use cases, and really leverage the digital marketing, because we find the, you know, cost and the return on investment there to be better, to supplement our outbound, efforts, right? So to go more in the direction of inbound marketing, and, that's in a sense, what we are working towards on one side. On the other side, in various regions, we are also looking at brand accreditation. So, you know, we have strong partnerships, for example, in Middle East, with entities like Thales and others who are, you know, cybersecurity conglomerates that are very known in the space, to really target the large enterprise segment and, you know, get within that niche and PPC within that niche, so that we're able to command higher enterprise pricing and, you know, in the larger deals. Finally, I think India's digital public infrastructure has also played a very critical role in doing some of the marketing for us, because that is seen as a roadmap that is being adopted by a lot of the developing countries. By default, then eMudhra is seen as an enabler to such an ecosystem, which has gradually helping us in Africa as well. Hmm. Got it. Thanks for the comprehensive answer. I'll jump back into queue. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and 1 to join the question queue. Next question is from Parikshit Kabra, from PKV Advisors LLP. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you for taking my question again. I'm sorry for harping on this a little bit. I was just going back to the, again, the solution order book. I remember at the start of the, this financial year, when we had that conversation, the order book was INR 118 crore, and the guidance given was that 118 into 2.2, which is about INR 260 crore, which is very close to the overall enterprise business revenue that we got this year. But this time around, we are saying that INR 149 crore is only the solution book, which can be multiplied by 2.2, and on top of that, there will be a services business. but- No, no, no. Earlier, if you see, earlier if you see in the beginning of the year, there was no services business. It was only our solution and the trust service business. Now, in May only, we acquired the Ikon in May, June period of last year. Then we have created the solution business even in our campus only recently, 3, 4 months back, and got the customer of First Abu Dhabi Bank and all this. I understand. Yeah. This year's guidance, am I incorrect in remembering, sir, that you had given a guidance of about INR 260 crore for the enterprise business this year? No, not INR 260 crore + around INR 85 crore, because initially we hoped only 15% increase in trust services. So that's where almost two, not INR 260 crore, maybe INR 240 crore-INR 250 crore, another INR 100 crore of trust services. Yeah. That's where around some INR 350 crore something we gave. Correct. Correct. So hence, my, my point, sir, is that there was a factor given of ordering order book multiplied by 2.2, plus whatever trust business is there. Trust business I'm leaving aside. Was the general rule of- Generally, we were talking of 2 only, not 2.2, I think. Maybe Percy can correct if I'm wrong. Then we were- No, we were always talking of two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. We wanted to be a little conservative on the overall side, so that's where overall we said we may be able to do around INR 360 kind of numbers. Got it, sir. And sir, can you please elaborate again on the solutions business? What exactly does this entail? Is this like an AMC? No, no, no. This is consisting of all our product, emCA, emAS, then emSigner, then Thirty Next, all our product. I meant the services business. No, no, services business. So, business. So, sir, you are asking about solution or services? Sorry, I'm asking about the services business. My mistake. Services business is mainly the services relating to the cybersecurity, paperless transformation, providing stock and all those kind of services, then the penetration testing, vulnerability assessment. All these kind of services where we provide people and charge on the basis of the manpower, sometimes on the fixed rate engagement also. There is nothing related to our product. Okay. These are... How is this—like, what is the business model here? Is this a three-month long consulting project? Is it an ongoing service provision that you provide them perpetuity? It is both, both model. One is the fixed price model and another is the number of people provided. For example, First Abu Dhabi Bank. For First Abu Dhabi Bank now, we have provided almost 60 people, and on the basis of the people we charge. Got it, sir. This engagement is typically a one-year contract, five-year contract? I'm just trying to understand what is the duration of this business. Generally, it will be 1-3 years, not 5 years. Okay, 1-3 years. Yeah. Okay, understood. Yeah. Because it's our first year of doing this business, I guess it will take time to ramp up and figure out how long the... What is your assessment of how long you'll be able to maintain these clientele? Oh, we will be able to maintain the customer. As long as our services is good and competitive, we should be able to maintain. This business becomes a compounding business every year. Yeah, little bit it will compound also. It is, it will not be stagnant. There are also this, as I said, around 20% growth or 25% growth may be possible. But we are yet to test it, because this being the first year, we have to test and see what rate we grow. Got it. Got it. Is this business margin dilutive for us in the overall scheme of things? Because, you know, we're, we're pretty high, high margin business so far. Gross margin, because the product business, the gross margin is almost... If you don't do hardware, it will be even 80%-85%, but in the services business, the gross margin could be around 40% or something like it. Got it. So it will create some level of margin dilution? But including that only, this overall margin of this 65%-60% is coming, no? Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. Okay. I understand. But as the weight of the solution business, if the solution business outgrows, sorry, the services business outgrows the solution business, then- It can be margin that. As of now, we are not saying that the services will outgrow the solution business. Okay. Got it. Got it. All right. Thank you. Just to add- Yeah, yeah. The idea is to create multiple entry points into the customer, so we are only focused on CISO organization. This allows us to basically enter and then cross-sell and upsell our solutions and vice versa. Got it. That is how some of these accounts we got. They were existing customers for our solutions. We incrementally were able to... They came, reached out to us saying that, "Can you help us with, you know, a few of our problem statements? Got it. Understood. All right. Thanks, Prashant. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Zal Kakaria from Agility Advisors. Please go ahead. Hello. Yeah. Hello, am I audible? Yes. Okay. Thanks for the opportunity. In last con call, you said that domestic business, our realizations were low due to high proportion of hardware. So could you please elaborate, like, what comes under hardware category? What is it? Can you repeat the question? In last con call, you said that our realizations in domestic business were low due to high proportion of hardware business. High potential of hardware? No, no, high portion of hardware, I will take that. So these hardware are mainly specialized modules called hardware security modules, or HSMs, which hold these cryptographic keys, and which are required by our solutions to basically be able to fulfill various end customer use cases. We are moving towards our software business, so what will be included in the software business? The software consists of our key solutions across paperless office and cybersecurity. So what our Chairman said is, we are trying to unbundle the hardware as part of the contracts, so that the focus is mainly on delivering our software, while the system integrator is able to deal with the hardware that may be associated, right? So we will not actively get into that. But in our realization, sir, high in hardware business now, 85%. 85% is a gross margin. Okay. In solution, in software. 85% realizations are in software and services. Solutions and services. Hello? No, I'm not... Yeah, your voice is not- Some other sound is coming. Hello? It's not clear. A lot of other noise is coming. In which business we have 85% gross margin? Hello? No, like... Yeah, like we said, it's the software business where we have high gross margin. The hardware business is low gross margin. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants that you may press star and one to join the question queue. The next question is from Nitin Sharma, from MC Pro Research. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you again. Just quickly want to understand, where did your DSO days stood in Q4, and how should we see it, in FY 25, given the challenges you faced throughout this year? Yeah, maybe you can repeat. It was not very clear. Sorry. So, where did your DSO days stood in Q4, and, how should we see it in FY 2025? No, our, the sundry debtor receivable days almost remained the same. So, even last quarter in September, also same, almost 94, 95 days, and similarly now also around 94 days. So it has not increased. In the coming year, we, we feel it should little bit come down because of unbundling of the hardware in all the government business. It will result in more margin, but at the same time could result in some lower sales of such items, so that the receivables can little bit come down. So is it fair to assume, around 85 days, 80, 85 days? Yeah, that much it may remain or could, 85-90 days it will remain. Understood. Understood. Thank you. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions, please press star and one. Next question is from the line of Saurabh Thadani from IIFL Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. One question, on the cash side. Now we have almost INR 250 crores of cash on our balance sheet. Any update on our capital allocation plans? Yeah, INR 250 crore is there. On that, if you see, some of which are based on the QIP thing. On the QIP, still a lot of money is yet to be spent. Almost INR 80 crore is reserved for the acquisition, so we are evaluating. It is yet to be spent. Similarly, on the product, INR 45 crore of the new products are there, which is at homomorphic encryption, mobile PK, and post-quantum cryptography. On that, we have hardly spent some INR 10, INR 12 crore, so the balance is also there. So as and when we spend, the cash balance will come down. But on the same time, there will be also cash approvals. So, so that way, we will be comfortable with the cash flow. Got it. Thank you. I'll move back into the queue. Thank you. Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question, please press star and one. Well, as there are no further questions, I'd now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments. Yeah. Thank you. I would like to thank everybody for joining the call. I hope we have been able to address all your queries, or any further information, you can get in touch with our investor relations advisor. Thank you, thank you once again, and have a great day. Thank you. Thank you very much. On behalf of IIFL Institutional Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.