Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Gravita India Limited 4Q and FY 2026 earnings conference call hosted by Antique Stock Broking. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then 0 on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rijul Dalal from Antique Stock Broking. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Rutuja. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, I would like to welcome all the participants on the Q4 and FY 2026 earning call of Gravita India. We have with us from the management side, Mr. Yogesh Malhotra, Full-Time Director and CEO, Mr. Sunil Kansal, Full-Time Director and CFO, Mr. Naveen Sharma, Executive Director, and Mr. Anant Jain, Investor Relations, on the call. Without any delay, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Malhotra for his opening remarks, post which we'll open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Rijul. Good afternoon, everyone, welcome to our Q4 and FY 2026 earnings call. I hope you've had an opportunity to review the earnings presentation and financial results uploaded on the stock exchanges. I will walk you through the key strategic updates, operational progress, and financial performance, followed by Q&A session. I am pleased to share that Gravita ended FY 2026 on a strong note, continuing towards its growth trajectory. Over FY 2021-FY 2026, the company delivered a strong five-year CAGR in revenue, EBITDA and PAT of 25%, 49%, and 31% respectively, reflecting consistent operational and financial performance. Despite macroeconomic uncertainties and elevated logistic costs arising from geopolitical conflicts, Gravita demonstrated resilient performance driven by disciplined risk management, agile execution, and strong operational capabilities. Before discussing the financial performance in detail, I would like first to highlight the key strategic developments that continue to shape and strengthen our growth journey. Our expansion program is progressing broadly as planned, with total installed capacity now at about 4.57 lakh metric ton per annum. We continue to work toward our medium-term target of scaling this up to over 8 lakh metric ton per annum by FY 2029, in line with our focus on building a larger and more diversified recycling platform. In Feb 2026, Gravita expanded its lead recycling capacity at Mundra by 80,300 metric ton per annum, taking the total capacity to 145,100 metric ton per annum. The company invested INR 49 crore towards procurement and commissioning of the plant funded through internal accruals. The expanded capacity is expected to enhance operational efficiencies, optimize logistics, and strengthen service capability for key export markets located strategically near the port. The Mundra facility continues to offer significant advantages in raw material sourcing and global market access, further reinforcing Gravita's commitment to sustainable growth and the circular economy. As part of its diversification strategy, Gravita commissioned a 6,000 metric ton per annum pilot lithium-ion battery recycling facility at Mundra in January 2026, with an investment of INR 14 crore funded through internal accruals. The facility is expected to scale up gradually as operations stabilize. Backed by advanced recycling technology, the plant will ensure safe and sustainable recycling of lithium-ion batteries, minimize environmental impact, and conserve valuable resources while strengthening Gravita's presence in the emerging EV battery recycling segment. I am pleased to share that Gravita has entered the copper segment through the acquisition of 99.44% stake in Rashtriya Metal Industries Limited for INR 560 crore, marking a strategic diversification beyond its core lead business. RML operates an integrated manufacturing facility in Gujarat with a capacity of 31,200 metric ton per annum and derives 40% of its revenue from exports to key markets, including the UAE, U.S.A., Thailand, Sri Lanka, Kenya, Indonesia, Oman, and Saudi Arabia. The acquisition strengthens Gravita's non-lead portfolio, enhances backward integration capabilities, and unlock synergies across procurement, logistics, and sales, while expanding its presence in high-growth electrical, automotive, and other value-added copper alloy segments. The company plans to establish a copper recycling facility in Mandvi, Gujarat, with an initial capacity of 29,400 metric tons per annum in Phase I by incurring a CapEx of INR 160 crore approximately. The facility is expected to strengthen backward integration, enhance operational efficiency, and support margin expansion in the copper segment. Commercial operations are expected to commence within the next 12 months. The commissioning of plant will be funded through internal accruals. On the investment side, we have earmarked a total CapEx of INR 1,700 crore through FY 2029. Of this, INR 815 crore is being deployed towards strengthening and expanding our existing businesses, while the balance will support entry into new recycling verticals such as lithium-ion, copper, and steel. During FY 2026, we incurred CapEx of INR 372 crore. Gravita has been assigned an ESG rating of 65 by NSE Sustainability Ratings and Analytics Limited, reflecting the company's strong commitment towards sustainable business practices, responsible growth and long-term value creation. Coming to operational performance. In FY 2026, total volume increased by 5% to 56,208 metric ton per annum. The lead segment reported growth in sales of 7% to 48,889 metric ton per annum, driven by capacity additions and stabilization. On a quarterly basis, sales witnessed an increasing trend. On the other hand, the aluminum segment witnessed a declining trend in FY 2026 as well as on a quarterly basis, primarily due to the inability to hedge and a selective sales strategy. The volumes are expected to pick up once the hedging mechanism is live on MCX. Due to tightening government regulations and the ongoing transition from informal to formal sector, the industry is undergoing supply chain formalization and enhanced compliance lead sourcing in FY 2026. FY 2026, EBITDA per ton for lead, plastic and aluminum stood at INR 22,043 crores. Sorry, INR 23,043 and INR 16,043 and INR 12,328 respectively. Moving to the consolidated financial results for FY 2026, revenue stood at INR 4,265 crores, reflecting a YoY growth of 10%, driven by increased capacity utilization and operational efficiencies. Value-added products contributed 42% to the overall revenue, demonstrating steady progress towards Vision 2029, where the target is a 50% contribution from such offerings. Adjusted consolidated EBITDA for FY 2026 stood at INR 452.48 crores, reflecting a growth of 12% year-on-year, with margins remaining healthy at 10.6%. Consolidated PAT came at INR 378.80 crores, registering a year-on-year growth of 21% with PAT margins at 8.88%. Coming to the consolidated quarterly performance, revenue grew by 13% year-on-year and 15% quarter-on-quarter to INR 1,172.76 crores. Adjusted EBITDA stood at INR 112.91 crores, reflecting a growth of 4% year-on-year, with margins remaining strong at 9.63% plus, supported by operating efficiencies and an improved mix. PAT for the quarter came in at INR 91.88 crores, with PAT margins remaining healthy at over 7.83%. Gravita is steadily progressing towards its Vision 2030 with a clear focus on scaling its core businesses and expanding into emerging segments such as copper, lithium-ion, rubber and steel recycling. Backed by over three decades of recycling expertise, 14 eco-conscious manufacturing facilities, presence across 70+ countries, strong stakeholder support and robust capacity expansion plans, Gravita remains well-positioned for sustainable long-term growth driven by diversification, operational efficiencies and value-added products. That's all from my end. I would now request to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you and over to you, moderator. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Akhilesh from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Thank you so much for the opportunity. My first question is on the CapEx. Our earlier CapEx guidance was of around INR 1,200 crore over FY 2026-2028. Now, since we have done RMIL acquisition and further expanding our, you know, recycling capacity. There what is our plan now? Are we planning to rationalize some of our lead capacity expansion or how it is going to be because of this? Yes. The earlier CapEx was not including the copper part, which is now being added. That is one which is making us look at CapEx in next four years. Instead of INR 1,200 crores, we are planning to have bigger capacity in, especially in, copper- Sorry to interrupt you, sir. May I request the participant to please mute themselves while management is answering a question. There is a lot of disturbance from your line, sir. Thank you very much. Sir, you may please go ahead. Yeah. We are adding copper and we as we already mentioned that we recently announced a capacity of 30,000 tons in copper, which was not there earlier. We are very bullish on this part because we already acquired a company in value-added products in copper. Now the copper will be the bigger part of this CapEx plan in next four years. There is a reason, we are increasing the capacity expansion and CapEx plans for next four years, which is from INR 1,200 crores to INR 1,700 crores. Sir, because of this CapEx, are lead capacity going to get rationalized? I mean, to say, is there any change in expansion of lead capacity as such? No, we are not changing the capacity of lead. Lead capacity will be as per plan. Because earlier the plan was to take this capacity to 700,000 tons, now we are in taking it to 800,000 tons. The additional capacity is coming up in copper, which is taking about- Can we get the commissioning timeline of that 45,000 tons of lead capacity addition which was about to happen in Q4 itself? It is going to happen in this Q1 only. In general. Any estimated timeline, like, end of Q1 or something? We have already installed the capacities. We are just waiting for the government approvals, which can come anywhere, probably in the first half of this quarter only. Okay. Okay. Sir, my last question. What has caused the decline in absolute EBITDA in Q4, despite the copper segment addition in the baseline revenue and EBITDA both? How do we see the impact of Russia in Q1 also? Copper did not have any impact in Q4 in the sense that we only took it over in March itself. The only a very small impact in the EBITDA came from copper. Miniscule part came from copper. As far as the overall EBITDA reduction is concerned, I mean, a lot of our material goes to the Middle East, around 10%, 10%-12% of the total sales. And most of these products that we sell to the Middle East are value-added products. Because of this disruption, we could not sell that material to Middle East, and therefore the value-added content or value-added products that we used to sell went down, and therefore the EBITDA per ton also came down to some extent. Also the inward logistic cost went up. Therefore, the overall material cost has also gone up. That has also impacted, to some extent, the EBITDA margins. Right. Sorry to interrupt. I will to interrupt. I will request Mr. Akhilesh to please rejoin the queue, sir. We have time- There's a small follow-up on this itself. Now since Russia war is still going on, how do we see our Q1 margins to look like? You see, we are seeing In the short term, it definitely will have some impact, we always keep to, I mean, see how we can mitigate those issues by going to different markets. Generally, in value-added product, it takes time to find new markets for those products. There will be some impact, we are trying to find out how we can mitigate some of the impacts coming out of this if takes longer. Got it. Thank you so much, sir. Participants, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants, we request you to please limit your question to two per participant. If you have a follow-up question, you may rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Vijay Kumar Rai from Kamakhya. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Congratulations on great set of numbers. I have two questions. Can you briefly outline your strategy in the copper business? Are you trying to launch more value add-on products, or are we focusing on the existing products that we have got through the acquisition? What are the synergies that we'll get with our lead acid business and copper business? Will this lead to an elongated working capital cycle? Yeah. Yeah. Basically, there are already quite a few value-added products in our kitty now with RMIL. In the initial phase, we would try to consolidate whatever markets or whatever products we are having, and at the same time, do some backward integration by putting up a copper recycling plant at Mundra, which will be commissioned within the next 12 months. That will add on some value in terms of. Of course, there will be some synergies in sales also, apart from procurement that we talk about. That will improve the margins going forward. That will be the first phase. In the second phase, when we increase the capacities further in copper, then we will look at other value-added products also, apart from whatever we are making right now at RMIL. Okay, sir. Sir, you also mentioned rubber- Working capital, working capital days will not be impacted. Sorry, working capital days would not be impacted because, I mean, it's a backward integration only. Overall EBITDA margins would increase, but the working capital range would remain similar. Okay, sir. Sir, you also mentioned rubber and steel recycling in the future. Do we have any plans out for that yet? Would we do an inorganic acquisition or would we try to set up the capacity on our own? Steel is not going to come anytime soon because we are now looking at copper and then other products also. Tire, we have already acquired a company in Romania and in India also we have started putting up a capacities for rubber. That would be coming up in H1 this year. The rubber capacity would come up in H1 this year. Steel is more of a long-term plan. Yeah, definitely. This is just the first capacity, as far as rubber is concerned, and that is also in the first phase only. The total capacity that we are planning for rubber is around 30,000 tons. That would come up in Q1 or Q2 this year. We would then increase the capacity. First of all, in Mundra itself, we'll increase the capacity from 30,000 ton in the next phases, and then we'll set up other rubber plants in other regions in India also. We are also planning to increase capacity in Romania, where we already have a plant next year. Okay. Steel is more of a long-term plan. We will see this after maybe two years or three years down the line once we have scaled our existing businesses. It all depends on how fast we stabilize the existing CapEx that we've done. Steel is under, I mean, consideration at all times. The only thing is that we are having our hands full right now with copper, rubber and lithium-ion expansion plans, and of course, our existing lead expansion plans. That is why we put steel on the back burner right now. Okay. Sure, sir. Thank you, sir. I'll join back with you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Nirvana Laha from Badrinath Holdings. Please go ahead. Hi. Good morning, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on RMIL. What is the current capacity utilization there, and what kind of growth are you expecting there in FY 2027, 2028, and which areas do you think the growth will come from? Current capacity utilization is around 50%, and we would want to take it to around 60%-65% in the next year itself. Going forward, by the end of the two to three-year period, we would take it to I mean, we are also planning to have to go for expansion in the existing plant. Would take this current capacity to almost double the current capacity from 30,000 tons to around 60,000 tons in the next three years. The overall capacity utilization at that point in time would also remain at around 60%-65%. Okay, sir. The current product profile is, I understand there are some supplies to defense sector, right? If you can help us understand what is the current product profile and where do you see it going from here in the next three years. The current, we are making copper sheets, brass curbs, copper foils, and other similar products that either go to the this electric and electronics industries, coinage industry, ammunition industry, et cetera. In the next two to three years, we are only going to consolidate the current markets only, the existing markets, probably increase the product range in the existing markets only. Maybe two to three years down the line, we may think of having other products in our kitties also. Right now we are only going to, till the time we go and start producing 60,000 tons per annum, we would only concentrate on the existing product portfolios. Once we increase the total capacity, then we may go in for other copper products also. Sure. The copper recycling that you're setting up, what is the plan there? Is that like a backward integration for RMIL? Are you going to supply capabilities of RMIL or are you planning to sell in the market? Both. Major part would go into RMIL only, but then if there is opportunity because we will keep on increasing the capacity at that end also at the backward integration part also. If there are opportunities to sell it to other companies also, we would also be open to that. Major chunk of it would go to RMIL as backward integration. Sure. What are the current gross margins there at RMIL, and how much bump do you think this backward integration will get you? Currently on a sustainable basis, we are getting around INR 45,000 per kg, per ton. Going forward, I think if we do the backward integration, it would go up to INR 65,000-INR 70,000 per kg, per ton in future. Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Laha. Please, maybe please request it to rejoin the queue. This is just a clarification on the answer that he's providing. Please allow me to complete this. This you are mentioning, sir, is the EBITDA per ton, is it? Yes. Yes. Yes. The realization that tracks copper broadly. If we track copper prices, RMIL realization broadly tracks that. Is that the correct understanding? Sorry. Can you come again? Sir, the realization for the products that RMIL makes, because I understand there are some alloyed products also, if we have to understand how the realization go, if we track copper prices. The realization is a mix of all the products. Yeah. Realization is the mix of all the products that they are selling. There are part copper and part brass. Overall, when we talk about the EBITDA per ton is based on the mix of the current products that they are selling. Okay, sir. I'll come back in the line. Thank you. Sure. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Aadesh Gosalia from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, hello, am I audible? Yeah, yeah. Please go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. My first question was on the outlook on the working capital. Since so if you can just provide some outlook on for FY 2027's working capital scenario, what you are seeing with the new product lines coming up and the expansion that is happening? Current working capital was for this year, including the copper part, was around 90 days, which was slightly higher because we kept some more inventory, considering the upcoming capacity at Jaipur and Mundra. That was the reason. Going forward, we see it with the copper business coming in, and copper business will be more imported one. It should be close to 85- 90 days going forward. Okay. More or less in the similar range because 90 days was in FY 2026, so is my understanding correct? Yeah, if you don't consider copper, it should be lower. Since the copper is more mostly imported one. The working capital will be again back to 85, 90 days. Okay. Okay, got it. If you can share some outlook and the volume numbers of quarter for Q4, like we are expanding so much in quarter, do we have some significant interest from certain OEMs or, like, some confirmed orders or something like that? If you can just give a picture on those, along those lines. Are you talking about RMIL or the entire group? Entire group, like the current capacity is coming up, I think, on both the lines, would give a better picture. Yeah. Yeah. Actually it's very difficult right now to say anything about Q1 because, you know, on one hand we have expanded at some capacities, which is going to give us some benefit in the quarter. Of course, as we have, I mean, RMIL would be the first quarter that would start showing its complete result. At the same time, there are disruptions in logistic cost also, and to some extent we are not being able to sell products or maybe bring raw material from the Middle East, which is a major contributor in terms of both the value-added content sales also and raw material also. That will have some negative impact going forward. Overall in this year, we are very confident of, and in the next three years, we are very confident of in, getting a CAGR of 25%, 20%-25% in volume terms consistently over the next three years. Okay. Okay. The volume numbers we saw in Q4 for the copper? Volume numbers, just overall, we are planning to grow at around 40%-50% in copper in this year. It will be in the similar range over last year in copper also. Okay. Okay. Just one data keeping question on the steady state, tax rate that we will have. Tax rate. Okay. Tax rate for last year it was around 15%. Since the business which is coming up like RMIL and copper business, which is mostly in India and Indian tax rate are close to 25%. Blended tax rate for going forward should be in the range of 17%-18%. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's it from my end. I will join back in the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions from my side. The first one is essentially again on RMIL. Just wanted to understand if there is surplus land for you to expand over there. Looking at the margins of RMIL, EBITDA margin that you have disclosed for FY 2026, that is close to around 8%. Gravita's overall margins are like in the range of 10% or so. Is there any possibility of increasing the margins over there or is the business like that, you know, copper business would remain at 8% kind of thing? If you could also highlight the sourcing of copper currently, will you be tapping into your regular African markets or, you know, you will be exploring, let us say Latin America also for that? This is the first question. In RMIL, I think, the overall margins definitely we would plan to increase this. As I mentioned that we would probably change some product mix. Sorry, at the procurement level, some mix in terms of scrap also. Currently they are not optimizing use of copper scrap. We would like to increase that going forward. Of course we will use our existing yard network to source copper scrap also. Then of course, in copper generally we would have to go to the developed markets also. U.S., Europe and South America, and of course Australia. These are the other markets that we will be considering in terms of setting up additional yards in the next two to three years. Of course, importing from our existing set of vendors. That will improve the margins in next two to three years to around 9%-10% from current around 8%. Sir, just a broad commentary would help actually on the shift from informal to formal sector. Last year or year before last, there were couple of endeavors from the government, particularly with respect to correcting the inverted tax structure and, you know, making sure that the BWMR mechanism is implemented. What are the changes that you are seeing and what would be the approximate shift that you would expect over the next three years to formal sector from informal? One of the major shifts that has started is actually earlier there was a lot of EPR transactions that were taking place between two parties and it was not transparent. Now the government has set up an exchange where only where you can sell or buy EPR. There is more transparency now. Nobody can sell at a rate lower than the earmarked rate for EPRs. That is one area that has changed drastically in this case because in some cases the customers were forcing the vendors to sell EPR at a cheaper rate. With this, you know, exchange coming in between where you can sell it through that exchange only, that will get I mean, that will change. That will further, you know, fast-track its shift from unorganized to organized. Add to further to this, there will be an audit mechanism which Central Pollution Control Board is making that framework of audit. Wherein somebody is generating any fake credits, that will also be audited. This process will also improve in this EPR mechanism and BWMR regulations. As far as battery is concerned, I think there is now a consensus between smelters and also the battery makers, and I think there is no resistance in terms of this EPR regulation now. Everybody is on board with the EPR regulation as far as battery is concerned. There are other sectors also where it is taking probably a little longer time, but most of the customers, I mean, the battery brand owners and the smelting companies are in line with these EPR regulations now. Okay, sir. Great. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumant Kumar from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. My question is for the copper segment, how the existing yard and overall sourcing of lead and other raw material after entering into copper is helping, and how much we have to expand to other geographies or also other yard to have more sourcing of copper? Sir, actually, I mean, copper generation in developing economies is limited, we have to go to the and whereas most of the battery scrap that was coming to us was from our own yards was from developing economies only. To some extent our developing economies would also give us copper, but most of the copper that would get import, that we would import would come from developed economies, as I mentioned, like U.S., Australia, Brazil, et cetera. We have to set up or we have to strengthen our sourcing from these developed nations also when it comes to copper. We are setting up a recycling plant which will be operative from next year onwards, and we are also at the same time setting up our own procurement network in these locations. We are very confident that by the time we'll set up the plant, we would have a procurement network in these countries also. Existing network is helping you for getting, the. It will definitely help. The plan is to go in for a 30,000 tons per annum in the first phase itself. We would need to have other sources for copper also, which would majorly come from developed nations only. It's not that we do not have our own procurement network in these nations, in these countries. We have a lot of our batteries come from the U.S. currently, we would use that network to source copper. We would have to expand that network even further. Last question. After consolidation of RMIL, I understand RMIL EBITDA per kg is higher, but working capital I think is also higher. Is it correct assumption, your margin profile of the company is going to improve, but your working capital is also going to increase? Margin profile in terms of percentage would not improve. In terms of absolute, it would improve, if per ton, if you talk about. Yeah, definitely the because you, we would be importing a lot of copper from overseas locations, then definitely the working capital would increase. As Sunilji mentioned a little while earlier is that you can expect the total working capital to remain at around 90 days in future also. Okay. It'll be higher than existing working capital days. Existing also it is 90 days. With the copper, because we were holding additional inventories for in the lead also we were holding some additional inventory, and that is the reason the whole year was 90 days for us in the last year. Going forward also, it should be in the range of 85- 90 days considering copper coming in. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikash Singh from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to understand our capital allocation in terms of that INR 1,700 crore. If you can bifurcate it on a year-wise and given the copper would require a huge absolute working capital, how should we look at the debt? Yeah. Definitely, the year-wise, if you see the breakup is close to INR 600 crores for next year, and INR 700 odd crores in the FY 2028, and then around INR 400 crores for FY 2029. This is a broad breakup of INR 1,700 crores, and definitely this INR 1,700 crores will be funded from internal efforts. We can easily fund this INR 1,700 crores. Definitely we need more capital for working capital, which will be taken from debt, working capital debt. We won't consider this working capital debt as debt because we keep our hedging mechanism in place and all the inventories, which is a major part of this working capital, is always hedged inventory and we don't see any risk. Metal is as good as liquid cash. The idea is to keep this inventory in the form of metal and take some debt on that. Noted, sir. Still we didn't get the, you know, the clarity on what kind of debt increase we can expect in the next 12- 15 months because of these endeavors. Debt should be working capital debt of around INR 800-900 crores after the copper coming in. Once the copper business starting, say, next year. That time we should be peak debt should be close to INR 800. Currently we are INR 118 crore of net debt we are having, and which will go up by INR 600-700 crores approximately. Noted, sir. Sir, my second question regards to copper only. Unlike lead, we don't have that kind of, already established sourcing system or a geographical advantage. Just wanted to understand, given some of the competitors are also adding, shaft capacities in this segment, and you've been predominantly depending on the imports. There, have we already tied up with few people to get this? How should we look at from which, geography we think that we would be able to source everything in terms of copper? Yeah. Sir, in copper there are two things. I mean, if you buy from aggregator, I mean, that is true with any metal or any scrap, is that if you buy from aggregator and then you make normal, probably rod of copper and sell it to the, to the market, you would not have any profits. Here now we have this RMIL where we are making value-added products. We are thinking of copper as a backward integration to that facility. Definitely our own procurement network is going to help. It's not that it's not going to help. We already have material coming from countries from where copper is also coming. We have our representatives there in some of these countries. We have our own yards also in some of these countries. Earlier we were not buying copper from those vendors or in those yards. Now we would start buying copper also from those yards. Definitely there is going to be synergy in terms of reducing cost, and there is where we are a little different from our competitors. On one hand, we would have some benefit in terms of going to the last mile and collecting copper scrap. At the same time, because of the value addition also, we would get some delta in terms of the overall realization of from copper. If you look at the overall margin, that we believe is going to be better than some of our competitors who are just selling, I mean, basic common copper products and are buying from aggregators. Noted, sir. Sir, any synergy benefit which you want to point out in terms of percentage or figures? Currently, as I mentioned that the RMIL, if they're buying, RMIL is running of a total EBITDA per ton of around INR 45,000 per ton, and we are expecting it to go up to around INR 65,000 per ton By the time our new recycling unit comes up in the next two years. Noted, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you and all the best for future. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrenik Mehta from Indo Alps Wealth. Please go ahead. Hi. My question was about the overall aluminum EBITDA, which has fallen on a per metric ton basis, from almost INR 23,000 per ton to INR 17,700, a 23% decline. Plastics have also fallen from INR 20,300 to INR 9,800, almost half. Given that you have this Vision 2030, where non-lead business would be almost 35%-40% of the overall business, can you decompose how much margin compression is attributable in this case to, one, the LME linked input cost pass-through lag, and second, through the capacity ramp-up absorption at Mundra and recently commissioned plants, and third, the structural pricing pressure from competition or end market weakness? Which of these do you expect that will reverse in the first half of FY 2027? I think we've always mentioned that the per ton EBITDA from aluminum is going to be around INR 14-15 per kg, and that has been true for the entire year. In fact, there has been some increase in last quarter because of sudden increase in aluminum prices. On a sustainable basis, we've always said that it's going to be around INR 14-15 per kg. For the entire year, because of copper pricing going up, it has been around INR 16 per kg in aluminum. It's not correct to say that the margins have been decreasing. The margins are still over and above the guidance that we've given. Because there is no hedging mechanism, then you can see some shifts in realization or EBITDA margins going forward also. On a sustainable basis, INR 14-INR 15 can be expected. Definitely, because when we set up our own plant in India, the working capital cycle increases, and therefore the necessity to have a hedging mechanism is very important. Therefore we are waiting for this approval from MCX or starting a contract on aluminum before we scale it up in India. As far as plastic is concerned, I've mentioned it many times earlier also that it will take some time. It's also consistent if you look at FY 2025, last year versus this year, there has been some increase in EBITDA per ton from around INR 10 to around INR 12 this year. Part of it was because of, again, Q4 when the plastic prices surged because of this disruption and no plastic being coming from overseas locations. Therefore, the plastic prices went up and therefore we could gain some higher EBITDA in plastic in the last quarter. On an average basis, you can expect around INR 10-INR 12 EBITDA margins in plastic going forward also. There is no decline in the margins overall, but the volume in plastic would take some time. In aluminum, we are regularly following up with MCX and waiting for the approval to then scale up aluminum in India. When do you expect that approval? It's been hanging for a long time. I understand that we've been expecting this for the past one year. I mean, I can say that we can get it in Q1 next year also. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to predict because everything is there. I mean, there is nothing that is left now. The approvals are already there. MCX has already made that contract, but they are not releasing those contracts. I think, it can happen anytime. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. thanks for the opportunity. Two quick questions. One, you already mentioned about your sustainable EBITDA per ton guidance for aluminum plastic. Is it possible to share that, same for lead, copper and rubber? Yeah. lead again is around INR 19-20 per kg, and copper, currently is around INR 45 per kg. Once we start our recycling facility, it would go up to INR 60-65 per kg. Rubber? rubber it would be around, INR 7-8 per kg. Sir, here, you know, when you are talking about lead 19-20, you are considering the effect of this Middle East crisis also into that? This is. No. Not. This is on a sustainable basis without any crisis or without any arbitrage opportunities. I mean, if you look at last year, we've had some opportunities of arbitrage where we increased our EBITDA per ton to around INR 22. On a sustainable basis, I mean, when there is no arbitrage opportunity and there is no disruption, then it is INR 19-INR 20. If any of these two can change the lead margin, that would only be temporary, not a permanent shift. On a permanent basis, INR 19-INR 20 is achievable. As we become bigger and as our share of value-added product goes up, you can see some improvements in the next couple of years. Understood. That means Q1, one can expect at a lower end of the guidance in terms of EBITDA per ton at least. Yes, you can say that because there are certain disruptions that are taking place, at the same time we are looking at other avenues so that we can compensate some of that effect. We are still, I mean, trying to find out what would be the exact. Understood, sir. Guidance for this lead in the next quarter. Okay. Second question is, sir, out of this INR 850 crore CapEx, which you are doing for copper, steel and others, how much is it is for copper? Because what we understand is that, you know, lead was our bread and butter and then we tried to do it aluminum, plastic, rubber. Unfortunately for last four, five years nothing major happened over there. Now copper comes to our kitty and see that we will be focusing. So out of- Yeah. Okay. Out of this total CapEx of INR 1,700 crores which we plan for next, three years, the CapEx for copper is approximately INR 700 crores. Okay. In this INR 700 crore, how much capacity we are building in, including the integrated or backward integration also? Yet to be planned because we are doing some CapEx for value-added products also and at the same time for basic recycling also. Both, around INR 200 crore-300 crore for value-added products which will not be generating additional revenue, but definitely it will improve the margins. Additional INR 400-500 crores for increasing the capacity of basic products. That's what I'm trying to ask, sir. Suppose, you know, in next three or four years we complete this INR 700 crore CapEx on copper and we have a capacity of 30,000 which you are saying we can double it to 60,000. 60,000 again can go upward or not in this, which is included in this copper CapEx. I'm trying to look at what kind of EBITDA we can generate once you know, do the entire INR 700 CapEx and up and running in maybe four years down the line. I mean, in the next two years, the capacity would be around 60,000 tons only, two to three years. Okay. When we increase our recycling capacities further, then part of it would go to RMIL, and the balance part we are planning to make probably go into some other value-added products or some other products, and therefore the total capacity would be around 100,000 tonnes by FY 2029. Okay. 100,000 tons, INR 65,000-70,000 per ton EBITDA one can expect from there. EBITDA, yes. Okay. Yes. INR 60,000. That's great, sir. Thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is on the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. Thanks for the chance. Sir, roughly, now just continuing on the copper topic, what sort of working capital are we looking at, say, in next three to four years? Is it roughly around INR 1,200 odd crores? Basically, the working capital cycle for copper is going to be around 90 days. In that sense, whatever, if we calculate it for 30,000 tonnes capacity at 70%, yes, it should be close to INR 1,000 crores. Okay. Okay. Sir, I mean, if you put in that INR 700 odd crores of CapEx, INR 1,200 odd crores of working capital and the EBITDA margin and some decent utilization of 60,000 tonnes capacity, our calculation is suggesting not more than 9%-12% ROC. Just want to know what is our sense of the entire copper division return profile. Basically, as we said, this recycling facility is a backward integration of our existing facility in copper, right? We took over this RMIL. If you consolidate this, both the businesses together, the overall the margin profile will be better, and ROC should be in the range of 20% +. Okay. What margin profile? Yeah. With backward integration, we are taking around INR 60-65 per kg. Is that fair or will be better than that also on backward integrated capacity? This will be 65 will be on the basis of current 45 of RMIL, considering 45k of RMIL current. There will be some upside on that also in future, and with integration it will further improve. We are going beyond 65, over a period of two to three years, down the line. Okay. Okay. Understood. Sir, my second question is on the lead division. Generally, as per our expectation, how have been the entire enforcement of the EPR norms, and are we seeing any penalties being imposed? Because given all the policy tailwinds also in the last few years, our volume growth has been almost in the lead division has just been around 15% CAGR, which has been much weaker than what we were expecting or guiding. What has been the key, I mean, disappointment here, and how do we see this changing? Yes, as I mentioned earlier, that there are a few changes which are going to happen on this EPR portal. One, the trading will be happening through MSTC, which will be an independent trading portal. Second, the audit mechanism being also evolving, wherein the people who are providing EPR will be audited by Central Pollution Control Board. This will create a higher value realization of EPR credits, and later these scrips may become as a part of carbon credit also. There will be more transparency coming in this area. Parallelly, the reverse charge mechanism and TDS on particularly battery scrap is under discussions. The next GST Council meeting it may be implemented because NITI Aayog has recently released three reports, one on tire, one on end-of-life vehicles, another one was on batteries, lithium-ion as well as lead-acid battery, wherein also they have recommended all these reforms related to tax and operational reforms. Hopefully in next council meeting it may come as a reverse charge mechanism, TDS, one is e-portal, and third is audit of the recyclers. To answer your question, to some extent, it is having an impact in terms of higher, you know, availability of material domestically. At the same time, you know, 18% GST is creating a hurdle because of which most of the battery brand owners are not able to compete with the unorganized market. Therefore, I mean, although they are trying their best, at the same time, unfortunately the lead prices globally have not been, I mean, they were very low over the last years, so the difference between domestic lead and overseas lead was very high. That also created some problem in terms of battery manufacturers to go and, you know, collect batteries from domestic market. Once this reverse charge mechanism will come, that 18% benefit that this unorganized sector gets goes away, then it will probably go very fast. Otherwise also if the arbitrage opportunity which is currently available in domestic market vis-a-vis the LME or the global markets, comes down, then also the collection would be much faster. Got it. If I can just squeeze in one more question. Can we get volume guidance for FY 2027 across divisions? Volume plan is like same, 20%-25% growth, and in additional growth, slightly additional growth because we've missed some volumes in the last year, so we are expecting slightly more than this in the FY 2027. Got it. Thank you and all the best, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Khush Nahar from Electrum PMS. Please go ahead. Yeah, please. Khush Nahar, please go ahead with your question. Your line is unmuted. Mr. Nahar, may be requested to unmute yourself and proceed ahead with your question. As there is no response, we'll move to the next question, which is from the line of Nishita from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead. Yes. Hello. Am I audible? Hi. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, please. I had a question on the lithium-ion battery plant, that you've put up of, 6,000 MTPA. We commissioned that in Q4, so what is the revenue potential from that plant? As we mentioned earlier also that lithium-ion battery is just a pilot project where we are trying to understand the technology. It's only the first part of the overall lithium-ion plant that we have established, and that is still black mass. Currently we are putting up the second part where we would be refining and extracting lithium and other minerals from this plant. That is still to come. We are not expecting any major revenue in this year from lithium-ion battery recycling. In the next two to three years, I mean, you can see some volumes coming, but we are not considering any volume from lithium-ion battery in the next till our FY 2029 guidance. If something comes, that would be over and above the guidance. Okay. Okay. Understood. Like the backward integration of recycling for copper, the recycling plant that you're doing, what will be the capacity of that recycling plant? The total capacity for this plant is the Phase I will be 29,400 tons per annum. Okay. like, what will be the total capacity after all the phases are done? As we mentioned that, over a period of two to three years, we are planning to take this capacity. INR 200,000. To 100,000 tons plus. That is 100,000 tons plus. Okay. Okay. Understood. Understood. Like we are under a very high growth phase right now with all of our capacity expansion. Once all of the capacity expansion is done, what, like at the maximum utilization with all the capacities commissioned, what is the revenue potential that we see? As I mentioned earlier that the total, you can expect a volume of around 800,000 tons by FY 2029. Okay. In terms of volumes. And, uh- That is the capacity. Total capacity. I am sorry, that is the total capacity and you can expect around 60%-65% utilization of those capacities which would come to around 500,000 tons by FY 2029. Okay. EBITDA per ton will be more or less stay the same that you've mentioned earlier? segment wide EBITDA guidance we've already given. Yes. Will remain on similar terms only. Okay. Okay. Understood. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniket Madhvani from StepTrade Capital. Please go ahead. Aniket, please go ahead with your question. Your line is unmuted. As there is no response, we'll move to the next question, which is from the line of Sahil Kirk from CCV Fund. Please go ahead. Hi. Good afternoon, sir. Am I audible? Yes. Hello. Yes, you are. Please go ahead. Sir, may I know like what was the reason for promoter offloading their stake in the open market during last 12 months? There was no sale in the open market. There was some dilution by way of selling to some institutional shareholders, where they were looking for some bigger, you know, stake in the company. That was the reason. Promoter was also looking for some liquidity for his personal purposes. That was the only reason. Sir, my second question is that the borrowings in the overall company is increasing. In March 2025 it was INR 286 crore, and March 2026 we have closed at INR 736 crore. Our interest cost is, you know, decreasing. We have booked interest of only close to INR 25 odd crores against the borrowings of INR 736 crore. Are we capitalizing the interest cost or, like, what is the reason for such a low interest cost? No, basically, we are considering the net debt. Currently net debt is very small, which is INR 100 odd crores at this moment. Earlier we were having some additional liquidity by way of we raised some equity from the QIB, and that money was there with us. Later on we used those part of that money for some of the CapEx and internal acquisitions and the working capital. Recently we acquired one company, you've heard about RMIL in copper business. Some of the liquidity was used for that also. Considering everything, after all, everything, now that we have the net debt of around INR 100 crores, which is very small and that's the reason, the interest cost was coming down. By net debt you mean to say that you have a surplus cash balance, right? Or maybe some liquidity investment? Yeah. -or liquid investment. Sir, for that we are already booking other income in the P&L. There is a INR 77 crore of other income in the P&L. How we are, like, netting off with that? No. Is the- On the debt side we have, when we have the higher interest cost also, then the, basically the reduction of other income was also there. Sir Mayur, what is the cost of borrowing? Debt is increased in this year-end only. Because of this acquisition which was done in the March itself, the debt is, you know, increased. Otherwise the debt was lower. The interest cost, if you see on the year-end, overall year was lower because debt was lower. The other income. Okay. only stopped in March, mid-March only. Okay. What would be the tentative interest cost for FY 2027 based on the current debt of INR 736 odd crores? Interest will be in the similar range, whatever we are doing around INR 4 odd crores for a quarter. That INR 4-5 crores will be the interest cost for this year. Till the time we start. Okay. the copper recycling business, which is the bigger part of the working capital. Okay. Once that is started, we start some increase in the debt for working capital. Otherwise, till the time, we don't start that recycling business in copper, the working capital debt will be similar. Okay. Okay. Got you. I just have one last question, Mayur. What is the current expansion status of the Mundra and the Phagi plant? I guess I missed it earlier. Mundra has already been commissioned, and Phagi, you can expect in Q1. Yeah. There are two, three part to Mundra expansion. One is the lead expansion that has already happened in last quarter. Okay. The rubber expansion would happen in Q1 or Q2 this year, actually this year. Phagi lead would of around 45,000 tons of lead capacity would happen in Q1 of this year. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. That is it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments. Thank you everyone for participating in this call. We trust that we have addressed all your queries during this session. If there are any remaining questions, please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team. Once again, we extend our gratitude to all the participants for joining us today. Thank you, and have a great day. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Antique Stock Broking, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.