Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Havells India Q4 FY 2024 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yeah, thanks, Manjula. We welcome you all to Havells India Q4 FY 2024 and FY 2024 results conference call. We have with us senior management team represented by Mr. Anil Rai Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Rajesh Kumar Gupta, Whole-time Director and Group CFO; Mr. Ameet Kumar Gupta, Whole-time Director; and Mr. Rajiv Goel, Executive Director. Heartiest, congratulations to the management team for strong performance in Q4 FY 2024. Now I hand over the call to the management team for initial comments on quarterly as well as annual performance. Post that; we will open the floor for question-and-answer session. Thanks, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Aniruddha. Thank you. Good evening to all for attending the call today. Hope you would have reviewed the results by now. Quarter four delivered a decent revenue growth supported by continued infrastructure-led demand and promising start of the summer season. We are also seeing some early signs of benefits from real estate updates. Post several quarters of disruption due to BEE transition, fans registered a robust growth. With the strong onset of summer, we are seeing encouraging response from the channel for summer products. Also, we are quite satisfied with Lloyd's performance, and we are excited with the current market pickup and how season is shaping up. We have maintained that Lloyd is on a journey of growth, profitability, and market share. We believe that air conditioners are on the cusp of significant attraction after a few years of softness, and Lloyd is well positioned to capitalize through its own manufacturing capacity of 2 million air conditioners, a wider product portfolio with premium offerings, and an entrenched omnichannel distribution. We are positive on business performance going forward. We can now move on to Q&A. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi sir. From the bunch of numbers, my first question is with respect to the ECD business. That 22% growth that we had seen this quarter, if you can give a sense on how the fans business would have grown, what kind of growth that would have seen, would that have been the major driver of growth for that particular subsegment? If you can give views? Yes, Ravi. I think overall, fans have shown even a better growth as compared to the overall 22% ECD growth. But mind you, as I said in my opening remarks also, that this is over a low base over the last few quarters. But also the fact that the summer season has also started picking up well. Last year, March was a low month. This year, summer onset was early. But we are expecting a good summer in this year. Okay. Understood. At an overall company level, given the summer is good, lighting, pricing seems to be bottoming out, you adding capacity in cables, and real estate picking up, which should translate into good growth for switchgears, what kind of growth that one should think about with overall real estate picking up? Should it be for the core business similar to the 9%-10% growth that we had done this year, or it can be a much better number, like 15 kind of numbers that can happen over the next two, three years? Well, as you know, we don't give guidance on the growth aspect. But for the reasons that you mentioned, you've already enumerated all those reasons, we do believe that the growth in the core business can be better against what we have done in the last one or two years. So we definitely are more positive about the coming year. Got it, sir. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is in continuation to the last participant's question. Sir, you said fans registered a robust growth. Now, broadly, if I see ECD, there has been approximately 150 basis point compression. So can you tell us where, I mean, from which category within ECD this compression is coming from, or is fans a complete volume-led growth? My first question is that. So on the compression that you're talking about, you're probably talking about segment results, and this is actually depending upon the expenses also. On the contribution margins, I think we are fairly steady, and this is what we generally track because from quarter-on-quarter, expenses can vary depending upon advertising. Otherwise, on a contribution-based margin, we are quite okay and in line with what our expectation is. So then can we assume that you were able to take some kind of meaningful price hike in fans, or was that not possible, at least for fourth quarter? Fourth quarter, there was no requirement of a price increase because the materials continued to remain at a benign level or a constant level throughout the year. We have seen some uptick in, in fact, quite a major uptick in the raw materials in early April and late March. So definitely, I think going forward, we may expect some price increases. But last quarter, there were no price increases. Understood, sir. So my next question is on Lloyd's. So channel checks suggest that there was a stockout situation for most brands and also for Lloyd's. We found that at some counters. So first off, is that true? And if it is true, was it because we didn't anticipate such strong summer, and as a result of which, for fourth quarter, could we have lost some market share to the leader? And the related question is, from 1st April, secondary sales have started picking up sharply. So second round of primary sale, what's the inventory stocking in the channel, and therefore, what is Havells inventory looking like? And the recent bouts of rain, has it been a dampener? So those are my questions. Thank you. As far as Lloyd is concerned, the primary sales have been strong in the last couple of quarters. As we mentioned in the past meeting also, Lloyd is moving towards the journey of more sellout basis from the channel. And so there is a lot of focus towards the sellout. So as you rightly mentioned, April was the real consumption month, which was a very strong month, especially for South, West, and East. North still has to pick up in terms of consumer pickup. But I think overall, at the end of March, we don't think we had any issue with the stock situation. So because of two facilities now that we have, one in South, one in Ghiloth, so we are not in a situation neither we are stocking very high nor there is a situation of stockout. But yes, of course, when it comes to April, May, and June, if this trend continues, there might be issues with some amount of inventory being short in some areas. But we don't anticipate a huge issue with that. The reason why I'm asking is because 6% growth for Lloyd looks a little lesser than an industry growth of approximately 20%. So that is what I was trying to. I think overall, the way we are looking at it is that we need to look at two years' growth, what we have done. Structurally, we have maintained our market share for the entire year. That's how we look at it. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, I don't think it would be appropriate for us to make any decisions. I think overall, we have maintained our market share. Over two years, our growth has been around 30% CAGR, and that's what we are focused upon. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. I'll get back in the queue. Thank you. I request all the participants to restrict your questions to two per participant. In order, the management is able to address questions of everyone in the queue. We request you to rejoin for the follow-up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So my first question, again, is on Lloyd. I mean, after now quite some time, we have sort of come back to that double-digit contribution margin levels. So going ahead in terms of outlook, do you think you will, in terms of priority now, will maintaining a double-digit contribution margin be amongst the priority which you will strive to achieve, or probably you will continue to sort of look at a balance between growth and the contribution margins going ahead? How should we sort of think about the next few years? See, I know you've been following Havells for quite some time, and the company philosophy has always been not growth or profit, or it's always been growth and profit. So I think the same philosophy will become a part of Lloyd as well. So I've always maintained that we are continuing to invest in products, brands, channels, R&D for Lloyd, and we are on a journey of growth, profitability, and market share. So as a company, we don't believe in either/or strategy. And hence, structurally, we are trying to make things right, whether in channel, whether in brand, whether in products, whether in terms of our cost efficiencies, manufacturing. We are trying to make things structurally right so that they become the sustainable performance of growth and profit in the future. Got it. So if I have to sort of go a deeper into how the improvement has happened, would you suggest that, I mean, it's more led by pricing and probably discounts coming down, which is more sustainable, or do you think it's because of the costs going down? Because what I see in the near term is that copper prices and all have started going up again. So how should we think about profitability in the coming year? Yeah. So as I said, this is not attributed to one action. It is attributed to many actions, including channel mix, product mix, cost efficiencies. And of course, when your channel and the consumer preference starts going up, your pricing actions also follow. So those are all things put together which will lead to improved performance. And this is just the start. I think over a period of time, we have to see how things pan out. As you rightly said, markets change. The material prices are changing. How we are able to pass on that to the market, how the competition behaves. So those are all things we have to keep looking at. But as I said, Lloyd is on a long-term journey for structural improvement in terms of cost structures, capex, channels, and product and brands. That's something which we have to focus upon, and we'll continue to do that. Okay, sir. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you, sir. Thank you a lot. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul from Haitong Securities India Private Limited. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Good evening, and thanks for the opportunity. I wanted to get your feedback on the demand scenario, which has been muted for most of the year. Now, with ECD growing well in this quarter, which was largely contributed by fans, have you seen a more broad-based pickup in demand? And yeah, so that's the first question. Yeah, I think overall, in the last few months, there has been a better demand scenario. As I mentioned, infrastructure industrial has been positive over the last one or two years. Consumer demand real estate had been a little bit more tepid. We have seen some improvements. Again, it has to be seen how it pans out because raw material prices are going up. Last time, we had seen in a high inflation scenario, sometimes the demand also slows down a little bit. At least the starting of this calendar year has been on a stronger base. Okay. In your cables and wires business, is it possible to split this growth into volume numbers? I think it will be very helpful if you can share with us the full-year volume number for Lloyd's. Thank you. 18% is the volume growth in cables and wires. 18% is the volume growth for this quarter in cables and wires. 18% is the volume growth in cables and wires in this quarter. Okay. Thanks. And the Lloyd number? We actually don't give different quantities because it's a product mix of refrigerators, washing machines, and everything. So. No, no. Sorry. Let me just rephrase. I'm specifically looking only for room air conditioner volume number for this year, not for the quarter. We don't give this number. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali Salgaonkar from Jefferies. Please go ahead. So thank you for the opportunity. So my question is on the EBIT positive margin of Lloyd's. You mentioned in the press release this is led by cost savings and business efficiency measures. Could you articulate which were the? Sorry, can you repeat the question? There were some disturbance. Sure. So you mentioned in the press release that the EBIT positive margin of Lloyd's is led by cost savings and business efficiency measures. Could you articulate which were the key ones over here so that we better understand the margin profile? Yeah. So there were cost efficiencies because I have also said in the past that we had new manufacturing facilities. Ghiloth was fairly new. Sri City was a completely new facility. So there were initial inefficiencies built when a new plant comes up. So we have been working on building cost efficiency. But that's only one part of the overall journey for profitability, improvement, and growth. The other is, of course, premiumization, brand perception, all those things. Channel mix will also contribute. But yet, in the last one year, there has been a lot of focus on cost efficiencies as well. On the. On the manufacturing side. Okay. So what is the capacity utilization for Lloyd's right now? So we have a capacity of around 2 million air conditioners. Around 65% because we have seasonality in this business. Overall, for the year, we are around 65% or so. Understood. So my last question is towards CapEx. Any CapEx guidance for FY 2025 and also your cables capacity? When can we expect that to commission? This year, CapEx will be around INR 800 crore as of now. We continue to evaluate during the year, but around INR 800 crore. Okay. So, and your cables capacity commissioning? In the month of June. Got it, sir. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Renu Baid from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, sir. Congratulations for a strong profitability turnaround. Couple of questions first. On the core ECD business, while we have seen growth coming back, good seasonal and demand tailwinds, the EBIT margin or profitability for us somehow is still in the 10%-11% range, 11.5% range. So what, in your view, could be the drivers which can help the margin get back in 12%-13% in ECD as a category, or you think there are structural headwinds which may cap margin expansion in this segment? I think overall, with the focus on non-fans businesses like appliances also and driving efficiencies there, getting stronger in regions where we have been weak. So hopefully, we should be looking at improving margins overall in ECD business. I think, as I said, last couple of years, because of lack of growth in ECD business as a market, generally speaking, there is more stress on profitability also because of higher spends on advertising and all. But otherwise, our focus will be to continue to improve our contribution margins first and then, of course, bring it down to the bottom line. But overall, I think we are moving in the right direction. Got it. Secondly, in terms of recently announced foray into large kitchen appliances, so can you share some inputs in terms of what are your medium-term targets for this business? And as a company, what kind of investments will be required in this specific business segment, distribution, and allied areas? Because the distribution is completely different for large kitchen appliances versus a traditional portfolio that we have, and even in Lloyd's air conditioning business. So how do we look at scaling this business from a 3-5 year perspective? So we are looking at trying to get synergies from our existing channel, existing brand. While you say that it's a different channel, but we are now part of that significant part of the channel which also sells this, the modern format stores, through Lloyd and some part of Havells as well. So we will be taking this business with a cautious approach, not heavily investing in manufacturing. All the IP is owned by us, but we will be manufacturing it through third-party manufacturers and taking it from there and looking at this business like a seeded business and develop it over a period of time. The M&A that will be targeted for this business expansion, or largely through the organic? Largely organic. Got it. And lastly, on Lloyd's, while the journey is long-term, we have done many strategic changes. Can one say that in the recent quarters, having established a good volume share now, looking at a right balance between profitability and volume growth, fortunately, season also has been favorable? So now, clearly, there is no need to be really aggressive on the pricing but follow the other strategic initiatives like premiumization and distribution reach otherwise. Actually, if we see last couple of years, we've not really changed our journey. I mean, the pricing journey, the branding journey, the channels journey, we've remained fairly stable. That's what even the channel is appreciating. It's not that we are changing our strategy. As I said, maybe because this year, the efficiencies in the manufacturing also started peaking in, so we have started gaining. There is no change in strategy on pricing. It's something which, as a brand, we believe that we can't keep changing all the time. Got it. Got it. Can I just also highlight what was the average price increase taken in Lloyd's for the current season? For the current season, pretty much. For R&D portfolio? As I said, we've maintained our pricing over the last six months. We've not increased prices. Got it. Thanks much and all the best, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from PL India. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for taking my question and congratulations on this good set of numbers. So the first question is related to the Lloyd's. If you can give some geographical contribution, like how is your South versus North as a performance? And is there a material difference in terms of the growth in the last FY 2024? I think Lloyd's, over the last few years, if you see, we have grown very strongly in either two regionals, for example, West and East. Lloyd's had been strong in South in certain markets other than Tamil Nadu. But I think overall, in the last one year, growth has been all around. In the last quarter only, the growth has been very strong in South and East. North season is yet to pick up. But otherwise, South, East, and West have grown much better than North. Okay. And in this segment only, as you had mentioned that last six months, we have not taken any price hike. But in our channel check, we get to know at the dealer level, there is some price hike across the brand. So is it something that is there in the offing or you directly negate that there is no price hike so far? I think we have been fairly stable in our pricing. Whatever we had, we are not a company who believes in changing prices during the season time. And so, in fact, whatever we started off in October and November, we have maintained the price till the end of March. Great. So last question on the cable. Can you give a volume growth number for the FY 2024? 18% for the quarter. Sorry, just one minute. Almost 15%. 15% for the entire year. Thank you, sir. I'll come in a few. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie Group. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening, sir, and congrats on a great set of numbers. So my first question, again, goes back to Lloyd's margins. Now, just on the contribution margin, sequentially, we have seen 500 basis points of improvement. Am I right in saying that roughly 200-odd bps would have come just from higher volume because you also factored your depreciation cost in calculating contribution margin? Yes. So I don't know the exact number. You might be knowing better. But there is unabsorbed manufacturing overhead, which always helps when the volumes are higher. So fourth quarter, first quarter, always the margins will be higher because of this reason. So, sir, can you give some more color on this 500 basis points of sequential margin expansion? Pricing, you said, is stable, so that is not a big driver. If it's possible to give any color on mix, cost. I think I've already given a lot of input on this one. I don't think I can give more granular details more than what I've said. Okay. Okay. So, secondly, in terms of your cable business, with the capacity coming in June, how fast can we ramp it up? Because that was one of the big bottlenecks for us to grow our cables business. So can we expect 70%-80% utilization by end of the year, or you think it will be more gradual? Yeah. Second half, we'll start seeing some benefit. Of course, new plants always take time to get full and familiar, but there will be enough in the second half. Got it. So just one housekeeping question. Earlier in the call, you said RAC operated at 65% utilization in 2024 on a 2 million unit basis? No, I said it's a seasonal product, and sometimes it goes down to as low as 25%-30%, and sometimes it's operating at 100%. So on average, you can say 60%-65% is operating at. Got it. Got it. Thank you so much, sir, and best of luck. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chaitanya from Prabhudas Lilladher. Please go ahead. Sir, I have questions, but my questions have already been answered. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Venkatesh from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I had a question. Now, the dealer margins which you give, the margins you give to your dealers and retailers of your AC products, is that subtracted when you are calculating your contribution margin? Yes. Okay. Now, the reason I'm asking is when we are actually going to the channel for the last couple of quarters, we get this feedback that Lloyd's has cut down on dealer margins. Now, is that one of the reasons why your contribution margins have gone up? And correspondingly, we are also noticing that for the last two quarters, the sales growth has slowed down to 7% or 6%. Now, I'm not telling this is right or that is right. I just want to know, are you now comfortable at growing in line with industry or slightly lower than industry for better profitability? Because in the past, the last two years, we were literally growing at almost 1.5x the pace of the industry. So are you now more comfortable with 10%-15% kind of growth with slightly higher margins? Is this what you're trying to achieve? So first of all, we have not changed any margin structure or pricing structure in the market. Secondly, if you ask me how we're comfortable with the industry growth, our endeavor, as I said, has always been growth, profit, and market share. So market share growth will always be remaining as an objective. So we will not, if you ask me straight away, we are not comfortable with growing at the industry pace. So again, as I said, please do not look at 6%-7% growth over a quarter. I think the way we are looking at it is over a longer period of time, we want to see our market share growth. Okay. Understood. Now, the other question is on the ECD division. Other than you already anyway mentioned in your introduction that fans grew at a substantially higher pace. In your portfolio, are there any other summer-related products in ECDs other than fans? There is air coolers, which is also part of our ECD business, which is also summer products. Okay. Is it possible to tell us ex air coolers and fans, what was the growth in ECDs? No, we do not give separate growth numbers for different product categories. We have 25 different BUs, and then if we start breaking it, it will be very difficult. So as a company, we have maintained on these as BUs, and that's what we would try to focus on. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Lastly, on the INR 800 crore CapEx for FY 2025, can you give a broad breakup where you are spending this INR 800 crore? We'll give you these details subsequently. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Balasubramanian from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for taking my questions. Sir, on the switchgear segment side, still we are facing degrowth on telecom side and where the demand is coming right now. On the wires and cable side, what will be the mix in Q4, and what will be the margin difference? No, I think the telecom, this will be something more like next year. So I think growth is largely from residential and commercial. As I said, there could be some lag effect of real estate. So I think this is where we believe it is accruing from for switchgear. And on cable and wire, I think the mix is 40%, 60%. 60% is wires and cable is 40%. The margin difference, sir? Margin, we give consolidated. So I think let's stick to that. Okay, sir. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Latika Chopra from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Hi, yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question was on fans, which boasted strong growth. You also alluded to the fact that there could be potential pricing freezes on the early part of Q1. Just wanted to check, what are the channel inventory levels for fans? Are these normalized levels that you would expect at the beginning of summer season, or this time, in anticipation of a pricing freeze, are channel inventory levels higher at the end of March month? No, these are at normalized levels. In fact, the price increases, as I said, would be expected in the first quarter. We are still reviewing the impact of the raw material changes. This has to be seen on a sustained basis. So if any, there will be in the first quarter. So these are not applicable from March. All right. Yeah. Okay. No, I was just thinking we're just contemplating it now. Okay. No, I think these are at normalized levels. Okay. Sure. The second bit was on Lloyd's. Beyond ACs, if you could give some color on how are you thinking about scale-up of washing machines and refrigerators, considering we are looking at a more balanced revenue and profit mix for this business. If you can give us some more color on how the revenue mix for Lloyd's looked like in FY 2024 on a fuller basis, and how do you think the shape of revenue mix could change over the medium term? Thank you. I think while we are looking at these businesses, which are foundational businesses, washing machines, refrigerators, LEDs, and they are growing at a decent pace. Last year was not a very good year for growth in these product categories. But we believe that we are doing the right things foundationally. But of course, while we continue to strive to make the product mix a little bit more balanced, our aspirations to continue to grow faster in air conditioners will also be there. So we would look at these product categories not just as a balancing figure, but more as foundation, and we continue to grow at decent pace in these businesses, in all three businesses: LEDs, washing machines, and refrigerators. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anupam Goswami from SUD Life. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. So my first question on the cables and wire segment, where do you see the growth coming from for the both segments? Let's say cable, which segment or which KV you're looking most growth in, and where is the CapEx also coming in this? And second is on the Lloyd's, I still did not understand, sir, how did we increase the margins this time because you did not say anything on the price hike. And how the sustainability will be for growth and margin for Lloyd's? That's it. I think on the cable side, largely, it is infra and real estate. The wire is basically the residential and the commercial market. I think there have been decent growth there. This is where it is coming from. The CapEx is both in the cables and wires on both the product categories. There is a CapEx. As for the Lloyd's margins, as we said, the cost efficiencies, which we are doing, also the better utilization of the manufacturing. Because if you see both, you see from the past year as well as since you go into the margins improved. We have maintained in the past few quarters that there is a lot of work being happening on the cost side and efficiencies. I think this is coming to the fruition. Apart from, you see, the gradual minimization of the portfolio or the channel mix, as you said, there are multiple levers which are baked into the same. I think largely led by the cost and the business efficiencies. And how sustainable would this be? If there's a cost efficiency, then it should be sustainable, right? And do we see growth coming back to, let's say, how the industry growth or slightly better than industry growth coming how it was? So I think the cost efficiency efforts are always continuous. You see, it doesn't stop. And to some extent, there is a raw materials hike which has happened. So you could argue there is a certain degree of headwind as well. So I think those strategies will be very dynamic. And as we have just mentioned on this call, that you see, there has to be a balancing of how we see the market, how the competition reacts. And this will be an endeavor on growth, profitability, and market share. So I think all these sort of axes will have to be evaluated. But as I said, the cost measures and the work on efficiencies being squeezed out of the cost, I think it will continue. So we definitely hope that, you see, there is a good balancing of growth and profitability which will continue. Yes, we have to continue to watch it out. I think it's a competitive industry. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pulkit from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, you said that over the last three years, we've grown at 30% in Lloyd's. But if I look at the variability, 35%, 50%, and 12%, is it fair to assume that the inventory that we had put in the channel was on the higher side? And we've seen normalization of that happen right now over the last two quarters, i.e., from here on, we actually should grow in line with the industry. Because, I mean, three years is a pretty long time for a CAGR for us to look at. So just wanted to understand why the last six months for us has been weaker than the rest of the industry. So I would normally, if there is higher inventory in the system, it is usually not over years. It can happen over a quarter or a few months. So we have seen market share gains also in these last three years. It's not that if we push the channel, that inventory is getting normalized at this point in time. Overall, in the last three years, Lloyd's has gained market share. No, sir. So precisely, that was what I was trying to understand, that last six months, we have grown lesser than the market. And you said overall growth has still been 30%. So I was just wondering, is there a correlation between the two? Effectively, in the last six months, our market share is lower is what the data is suggesting. So I'm just trying to understand that better. It's just that, again, we have to look at it over a longer period of time. There are structural changes also happening within Lloyd's in terms of more sellout bases rather than selling bases. So there is probably normalization of inventory towards the fact that we are also changing our strategy to sell and not stuff the channel in the initial phase. So if you really see a comparison on the last six months' basis. Okay. That is clearer. So my second question is, I think somebody already asked if you could talk about the breakdown of CapEx because Lloyd's, we already have enough capacity. Cable, we'll be expanding capacity too. So INR 800 crore would be spent on which subsegments? Let us come back to you with the figures. As you rightly said, there is not more CapEx in Lloyd's. Most of the CapEx is for Havells. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Bhartia from Investec. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening, sir. So just wanted to understand if there were any capacity constraints that we were seeing on the wires and cable side and how much additional capacity is actually coming on stream. Will it be largely for underground cables, or it's a mix of underground cables and domestic wires? It is a mix of both, and both capacities are coming up. Approximately 25% capacity is being accessed. Understood. And so were there any capacity constraints that either we or industry were seeing on the industrial cable side? Yes. At least for us, there has been capacity constraints. Understood. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. One is on the switches side. So I wanted to understand first if you could give any kind of qualitative sense or a quantitative breakdown in terms of switches and switchgears. And this is a very high-margin business for Havells, the most in fact. So I wanted to understand, what are the pressures that you're seeing from these unbranded or low-key players? Because on the ground, the traction for players like GM, Goldmedal, Anchor has been very high. And some markets have also seen Havells losing market share to them. So just trying to understand the split in terms of revenue, and how are you seeing the switches business? Are you facing competition? Because that is what we've seen on the ground. That's one. And second, just a financial hygiene question. Can you tell us what contributed to your high other income this time? So I think on the first question, if you look at over the last 10 years or so, with the switches business, we believe that Havells probably lost market share initially to these unbranded players. But I think over the last three or four years, there's been a lot of structural changes in terms of our product mix and product offerings to the market. So we have gained back market share in the last two or three years against the unbranded players in the market. So switches is now on a good growth trajectory within the switchgear business. Sir, on the other income? Other income is generally largely on cash. Because the higher cash. Higher cash. Higher cash currently, yearly. Understood. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, sir, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, on Lloyd's, we've seen a very decent expansion and a turnaround at the EBIT level. With gross margins now at 12.5%, is there a possible scope of further expansion given that we will likely grow in line or slightly ahead of industry is what we have planned? Yeah. So we'll deliver more always. Inshallah, let us hope for better numbers. But the fact is, look, we can't look at just one quarter numbers. Lloyd is a seasonal business. We have to look at the entire year. Entire year, Lloyd has been able to get a contribution margin of 7.9% or 8%. So that's something we have to now track how we plan against that. While we are very enthused by the fact that the efforts of manufacturing efficiencies have started kicking in, but we are also wary of the fact that the raw materials are going up, and we have to remain competitive in the marketplace. So as I was giving, again, just on a basis of growth, profitability, and market share, we have to keep balancing all these things while we are looking at Lloyd's in the coming years. I would please request everybody not to just look at one quarter. We have to have a very long journey in this, and that's what we are planning to do. It's a huge market. It's as big a market as the electrical market. I think there's a long way for Lloyd's in the coming times. Single systems used on the marketplace. Yeah. I think that what we see is a very encouraging sign that after years of softness, the AC business has started in a very good mood for the industry as a whole. So I think that something is a very positive start to the season. Sure, sir. Sir, I mean, you also another question was that you spoke about washing machines, TVs, etc., also gaining importance as also refrigerators. Has there been a mix as a year as a whole between AC and the rest of these segments? AC used to be about 70%-75%. Has there been any change in that mix in FY 2024 as a year? No, it continues to remain the same. Okay. My second question is on the wires and cables segment. You spoke about 18% growth for the quarter and 15% for the full year. How would this differ for the wires segment in terms of the volume growth? Pretty much similar. Okay. Okay. That's it from my side, sir. Wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Atul from Citibank. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Thanks a lot. So just one question. Over the past few months, 2-3 months specifically, commodity prices generally have gone up. So obviously, we touch on pricing in fans and Lloyd's, etc. But what about other product segments? Have you taken price hikes there, and those costs have been passed on, or that is yet to happen? So the cost increases are still to pan out in this quarter. So we will be taking any price increases, if any, from now on. Last six months, the prices have remained steady in most of the businesses. Okay. Sir, I mean, broadly, given today's level of commodity prices, what kind of price increases are we looking at broadly? I mean, not specifically any product segment, but. I can't give you a broad answer. It varies so much from product to product. For example, in cables and wires, practically every 15 days, prices are being reviewed. March and April, there have been price increases in cables and wires. But other businesses, the way raw materials behave, it can be very different for a fan as compared to a switchgear as well. So, just to evaluate. Okay. So, could we like to say about 3%-5% kind of price increase probably for the portfolio? So I think let's look at the total impact of each product category separately, and then we will be increasing prices. Again, I keep coming back to the fact that as a company, we are very focused on growth and profit and market share. So we will be balancing all these things. It's not a complete transition that if raw material has increased by 5%, we will increase the price by 5%. We have to keep balancing things. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manoj Gori from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, in opening remarks, you commented you have been seeing some pickup into demand categories linked to real estate. Can you give us some color how this is panning out and your outlook on the sustainability for this demand momentum that we have seen? I think these are early signs of what we are seeing in the, let's say, the ECD category, which we believe comes with a lag effect once the construction is completed and is a handover. So since these are initial trends, we hope this would be sustained. And this has been our expectation as well that normally, after 12-18 months, there is a demand you see for the late-stage products into the residential segment. So as of now, I think it started, but I think we believe this should be something maintained now for the next quarter. Right. Right. Thanks. So my second question is on the room AC industry. So we are obviously going through one of the best demand environments in the current season, though North is yet to pick up. And given that the RM prices have been moving on the higher side, do we expect that industry, based on your assessment, obviously, that we expect industry to go for price increases during the month of May? Because again, post-season, it would be very difficult to take price hikes. So how do you read the current scenario on the pricing side? I mean, we need to watch it out. I think let's wait. You said the May, so let's wait for the time. I think it's very difficult to comment right now on the same. Okay. No problem. Thanks and wish you all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhavin Vithlani from SBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good evening, gentlemen, and congratulations for a great set of numbers. So I have three questions. The first is, in past interactions, we understand Havells is relatively under-indexed in the B2B channel, and it was what you had alluded to in the past calls. Could you qualitatively talk more about the efforts that you would have put to beef up our exposure in this channel? Because last two years, this channel has actually seen significant growth. That's one. Second is, in the past, you have spoken about disruptions in the end channel where GT Havells stronghold actually is seeing a decline when we do our checks. And modern trade and e-commerce are growing exponentially. Could you talk about the growth that we would have seen in the alternative channels like modern trade and e-commerce? The connecting question here is, because of the dominance of MT, which are larger buyers, are we seeing a greater profit pool of the industry shifting to the modern trade versus the brands? Last question is, we have kind of seen a lot of product introduction in the premium segment in the air conditioning space, like the Heavy Duty. And recently, you launched something which is embedded with lights. Could you qualitatively talk about how the share of these premium products has increased, and how do you see the market acceptance of these recent launches? These are my questions. So, on the B2B, Bhavin, I think the things have only improved. And I think that's why we said even cable, we feel a bit of a capacity constraint. So I think there is a greater focus in the not just two years, but I think for the last five years. We have been doing a lot of projects. This is where we have the B2B. And I think if you look at our portfolio, I think that business has done really well because of the way we are approaching this industry. And I think where we are also creating a lot of sectoral expertise. So I think these initiatives are only now assisting us not only on the B2C but on the B2B side as well. So I think this but look, this journey will continue to be there, and I think we continue to sort of support this with further investments into this segment. You talked about the channel. Yes, I think there has been a shift from GT to non-GT. GT was a very large part of any business in India. But I think that's not right of GT. We have a strong belief in the Indian distribution and how the Indian retailers and the wholesalers can make a mark. So I think we are very, very bullish, and we are also looking, evaluating options, how we can empower them and also help them in digitization so that they can continue to sort of thrive. At the same time, we have to be aligned with the market realities. And I think we will turn it more as an omnichannel. I think we have got a good presence across the spectrum, whether it is MT, whether it is RR, or whether it is online. Because we believe ultimately, the brand sells. So these are just new ways of distribution and new ways of approaching the customer. The customer is looking ultimately to latch onto the brand because this is where he gets the assurance, not only a procurement but also the lifelong servicing of the same. So I don't think those parameters have changed, which brings us to your third question on greater profit pool. We do not see eventually there is much difference. Sometimes, you have a higher contribution in some channel. But on the net-net basis, we do not experience a significant difference among the channels. On the premiumization journey on the AC side, or we believe, again, this is a journey. I don't think it's fair to now start asking how much is the percentage. But clearly, we believe the consumer deserves a better, improved, also a good-looking product. And that's what we have done and have successfully over long years. And that journey, I think, has started in Lloyd also. Could you qualitatively talk about the acceptance of the recent launches? It has just started, but I think they're fairly encouraged because we thought that all ACs look the same, and people do not expect anything different. But I think like anything else, people are very encouraged when they see something new. Sure. Just last follow-up. What would be the growth that we would have seen in e-commerce and modern trade? We won't go into numbers, but it is disproportionately high. I think our market shares are converging and even higher in MT and RR. Sure. Yeah. Those were my questions. Thank you so much for taking my questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal and Independent Analyst. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good evening. Just two basic questions. Firstly, on the lighting segment, should I assume that the lighting pricing pressure is now gone by, and the upcoming year, fiscal 2025, should reflect largely volume growth? Is that fair to say? I think we could only argue maybe in the final stages, but you never know because these are really impacted by the global trends. This is not something which is a local phenomenon. Let's hope we are at the fag end of this. Okay. So because my channel checks suggest that it is now percolating to the bulbs and battens are done with, but now it's getting percolated to also the professional luminaires. Is that true? Would you agree to that? The professional luminarie, at least where we are concerned, is very, you see, innovation and very bespoke in that sense. So I think there the pressure could be slightly lower because it's not commoditized. And even in consumer, our entire endeavor is towards, you see, providing more value and not run-of-the-mill because run-of-the-mill is in sort of red ocean. And I think at least if you have followed our margin journey, you would have realized that this is only possible with significant focus on innovation and providing value-added products. Got it. Secondly, on cable and wire, why the plant has been delayed? Whatever, I understand three or four months here and there is not such a big problem, but just wanted to understand why this delay and any changes to the project cost. No, there's no change in the project cost. I won't claim it's delayed. Look, to get it operationalized and all, which as you said, two or three months, so it does happen. I think to get it on-stream, it does take some time. There is no project cost escalation. Okay. And no meaningful reason for the postponement? There is no postponement. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much, and all the best for the next year. Thank you. Thank you. As there are no further questions, I will now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comment. Thank you very much for joining, and thank you once again. Look forward to a great year. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.