Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Havells India Limited Q2 FY 2025 earnings conference call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am. Yeah, good evening, everyone, and a warm welcome on behalf of DAM Capital to the Q2 FY 2025 earnings call of Havells India Limited. We have the management today being represented by Mr. Anil Rai Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Rajesh Kumar Gupta, Whole-Time Director and Group CFO; Mr. Amit Kumar Gupta, Whole-Time Director; and Mr. Rajiv Goyal, Executive Director. At this point, I'll hand over the floor to Mr. Gupta for his initial remarks, post which we'll open up the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Bhumika. Good evening, and thank you everyone for attending the call. Hope you would have reviewed the results by now. We delivered overall healthy performance across categories, driven by improvement in consumer demand and pickup for ongoing festival season. Lloyd also delivered a decent growth and continued benefits from cost efficiency initiatives. A steep volatility in commodity prices impacted cables margin, as we saw absorption of high cost inventory against the falling raw material and sales prices during May to August two thousand twenty-four. As the festival season is slightly earlier this year, we witnessed advancement of advertising spend, thus moderating margins across categories. We expect normalization over subsequent quarters. Last month, we commissioned our new cables plant in Tumkur, which will scale up over the next few months. Considering the long-term potential demand for higher size cables, we have committed additional CapEx of around INR 450 crores for expansion in the Tumkur facility. We can now move to Q&A. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Rahul Aggarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Very good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. I mean, the first question was on switchgear. You know, what could be like a sustainable growth rate, we should assume for this segment? So I think for this particular quarter, there was, you know, a degrowth in the industrial switchgear business, which is part of the business. We did experience, because of the first six months of government spend, we did experience decent growth in our residential switchgear and switches and sockets segment. So going forward, you know, once the industrial demand also starts coming in, we expect lower double-digit growth onwards. Okay, got it. And, second and last question was on emerging categories. It looks like, you know, that gaining traction. Within this, which product actually is gaining meaningful scale and could be separated out eventually to, you know, to track it separately? Any color, sir? Yeah, I think within a year or so, there will be more product categories who are gaining enough sales. We are witnessing good growth in personal grooming segment, air cooler segment, water purifiers. Solar is also delivering decent growth. So I think, we'll look at it for some more time. This is still the investment phase in this, these categories. So by around next year, we should be looking at, maybe one or two out. Got it, sir. I will come back in with you. All the best, and happy Diwali. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Fatema from Mahindra Manulife. Please go ahead. Hello, sir? Yes. So, what is your read-through of how the festive is looking like? Because obviously we've heard two-wheeler behemoth saying that it's not that good. So for durables as a category, for our individual segments, like, you know, what is our thought process on how the demand is shaping up? We've seen the quarter start at a very positive note. So I think, let's see, some of it could also be because of the fact that Diwali is early this year, so hence the spend and sales both have started on a good note. Let's see, how it pans out, but I think, generally speaking, we are experiencing, you know, better growth this year. Versus last year, like-to-like, say, Navratri, or is that a fair assumption, or you're just talking about- Positivity on the consumer side this time. Okay. Fair enough. And then secondly, the kind of employee force that we are running, obviously, we've had a lot of expansion. Is this a new runway or could be even potentially higher because you've commissioned a new factory? Because 4-6 figures, practically, I analyze you're running at nearly a INR 1,700-INR 1,800 crore kind of number. So, you know, in a way, the fixed cost structure is moving up, and, you know, that revenue growth flow-through will finally get you margins, right? You're talking about employment? Employee cost, yes. So most of the people costs related to factories is not a part of this. But there is increased investment in, you know, fortifying the newer channels, especially the modern format retailers and rural areas. So we are looking at more expansions in these areas. And hence, you know, I would say these are a little bit investments for the future. Over a period of time, it will come to normalized growth levels as the sales are increasing. Okay. Can I ask one more question? Yes. This morning to analyze, we have been margin leaders, right? Last ten years, we've always shown industry-leading margins. Do you think that we are pretty much going to get back to that? Because, you know, say, last two, three years, you could, yes, say demand has not been good, and Lloyd was having its challenges. Do you see we are going to be back to that industry-leading margins? Because, you know, basically every successive quarter, we've seen a lot of, you know, earnings cuts, more led by margins than by revenues. I think, if you look at business to business as against competition, are striving as always to remain, you know, margin leading, businesses. And I think whether it's, consumer durables or lighting or switchgear, we're definitely leading by margins. I think where one could say is Lloyd is still in the investment phase, and, cables and wires, sometimes there is a little bit fluctuations. We definitely see that we will be coming back to normalized margin levels, very soon. Okay, thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address the questions from all the participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saumil Mehta from Kotak Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So when I look at the lighting and the ECD divisions now, obviously, we have raised up contribution margins quite well. But when I look at the EBIT margins, there has been a very sharp moderation, while I believe ad spend and employee costs are up. But going into FY 2026, slightly on the medium term, how should we look at both those divisions? Is the price realization in lighting behind us? And any color on the ECD portfolio, given that the summer portfolio, what we also hear from channel checks, has been fairly muted in recent times. I think in both these businesses, lighting and ECD, I believe that, you know, the company is doing a very good job of minimizing the portfolio, and hence, you know, we can see, again, industry-leading contribution margins, in the businesses. Here, you know, if you don't look at quarter on quarter, quarter to quarter, but, generally speaking, lighting, even on EBIT margins, we are leading industry by, by, quite a good margin. Electrical consumer durables also, as I said earlier, in terms of, manpower costs, there is some investment built in, but we will be seeing, efficiencies coming in because of this and higher growth. So at FY 2026, we'll definitely be, back to our margins, as you have said. Sure. And my second and last question, while you alluded to a better near-term festival demand, but has it got to do with more of restocking? Because at least from a counter case perspective, at least again, what we're hearing is things have been fairly muted. While, you know, you believe that the festival upcoming is going to be strong, so it got to do with more that the channel inventory was low, and to that extent- Sorry, can you... voice is not very clear. Can you repeat your question a bit slowly, please? In terms of the opening remarks, you mentioned about the festival, upcoming festival demand is panning out quite well. Now, this is a bit contrary to when we do our channel checks in the market, where we, from a consumer point of view, things seem to be muted. So for players like us, is it more of a restocking demand, which probably from a near-term perspective bodes well, but the on-ground demand is weak, something on that side? Any color here will be very helpful. Maybe it's a bit early to say. I would not, first of all, say it's restocking or anything. It's a bit early to say. We've maybe there is a little bit of anticipation of the Diwali festival coming in, but I think, as I said, it's early. We're just in the middle of October. We'll have to see how it really pans out. Sure. Thank you so much, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is on Lloyd. Can you first help break the growth in terms of how ref did versus washing machine and rest? And a little bit more color on RAC in terms of how the channel inventory now stands, and what is the pricing scenario? Is it still highly competitive and price high? The first question, thanks. First of all, you know, AC in this particular quarter is generally a very low quarter, and especially because there was a good demand for air conditioners in the first quarter. The consumer pickup in the second quarter has been low, and hence the growth in non-AC segment for Lloyd has been better than the growth in air conditioner segment. So which also is a positive thing, because... You know, our focus on building other product categories like washing machines and refrigerators, that's also panning out well. And so I, I would say it's becoming a little bit more balanced, but this particular quarter, there's not much to read on air conditioners, because one, generally, this quarter is a very low quarter, and secondly, it's coming after a very heavy first quarter. Sir, my question was more on how probably non-RAC did, because our channel check suggests that washing machine as a category has not picked up despite this quarter being a seasonal quarter, the second quarter. For us, it's a bit small category, hence we are definitely experiencing growth, but it is lower than the other two categories, like LED panels and refrigerators. Understood, sir. And sir, my second and last question is on kitchen appliances. So what we've understood is, from October onwards, the demand has started picking up on the ground. So can you tell us how kitchen appliances as a category for you, you know, it's looking like? And in terms of competition, what we've understood is there are a lot of these premium players who started rolling out mid-premium products. So now even a Bosch has a product category, which is equivalent to a Havells pricing. So what's your sense on that in terms of that competition and cannibalization? Thank you. I think, you know, we are very positive about our domestic appliances category, and it is, again, as I was saying earlier, it is also one of those products which have started off on a very positive note in the festival time. So we'll continue to see that. But, you know, as far as competition is concerned, there is always a push towards, you know, trying to cater to different kinds of consumers. When there's a product or when there's a company which is catering to, let's say, lower set of consumers, they want to go premium. Some companies who are only catering to premium, they also want to go. So this competition, you know, can keep varying. The whole idea is how we can, you know, refresh our product range, you know, make meaningful, make meaning to the consumer and, expand the, reach to the consumer. I think we are, as far as ECD is concerned, we are making decent strides in most of the product categories. Thank you, sir, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question is on the cable and wire segment. We have seen a good pickup there. You mentioned that it has been led by wire. So, are we seeing a good improvement in terms of the wire demand, and how sustainable should we think about the growth in the coming quarters? And second is the cable facility also you mentioned that it has- Yeah, you know, there was a disconnect. Can you repeat the question again, please? So sorry. So on the wire side, you mentioned that we have seen a good improvement. So just wanted to understand how sustainable is it, if you look at the traction in the second half, and our cable plant is also, you mentioned that it has got commissioned. So if you look at the cable and wire category as such, I mean, a strong double digit or current momentum sustaining is something can we expect, or do you see any challenges here? No, I think as far as wires is concerned, you know, we experienced a bit lower growth in the first quarter because it was fluctuating raw materials. And because of the destocking in the second quarter, had a good pickup and restocking of the products as well. Unfortunately, the volatility in the raw materials during the quarter affected the margins. But I think, given the fact that we have been adding capacities at Tumkur, now it should augur well for decent growth in both underground cables and in the coming time. On the profitability, you mentioned that the volatility had impacted current quarter margins. Has the commodity price increases been taken, and from next quarter onwards, we should come back to that normalized EBIT margin level? The third quarter pretty much towards normal, because, let's say maybe October is a bit affected, but November, December, we anticipate unless there's further volatility. Otherwise, we expect very close to normalized margins in the third quarter, and, fourth quarter should be absolutely normal. And so on the ECD side, also, you mentioned that there has been some enhanced investment which has been going into emerging channels. So any color here, how much is that impacting our margins, and how should we expect that to normalize going ahead? I think this channel investments, Siddharth, I think will be compensated by the increase we will be sort of expecting to see on these channels in the ECD side. So I think these investments, to some extent, we should see are for slightly medium term, and I think this is something we'll continue to reflect. We do not expect them to normalize, but they will be sort of offset by the higher growth we are expecting in this category. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah, so in terms of Lloyd, we had indicated that we will also get into certain exports to Middle East as well as USA markets. Now, that was done almost seven, eight months ago, the announcements. So, any update on that, and when should we see the products rollout happening in both these regions? That is question number one. And secondly, if you can indicate the price hikes during the quarter, as well as the growth in two verticals, B2B as well as B2C. Yeah, thanks. You see, on the international side, we have started on the Middle East, but I think it's early days. And for the US, the product is under development. ... I think this something more probably the next year, I think should show some more traction. But I think as the thing develop, we will keep you updated on the same. And second on the? B2B. B2B, B2C. How much is it? 20% B2C. So B2B, B2C, growth rates, and price hike. This quarter, B2B growth rate was about 9%, and B2C was 20%, and price hike, look, you know, if you keep away cables and wires, most of the price hikes have already been taken. Cables and wires, it's very, you know, it's related to the fluctuation in raw material prices. Sure, sir. Understood. Last question. B2C growth has been really pretty strong. So if you can indicate any region-wide color, east, west, north, south, where it is doing well, or let's say, urban versus rural, any cuts on, or color on that? That's last question. Yeah. Thanks. I think regional-wise, it's pretty much, you know, I would say fairly distributed, and as far as urban versus rural, we have started seeing some slowdown in the last year, but now started picking up, so you know, urban has been doing well, but rural has also started picking up. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Bhartia from Investec. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. So you spoke about advancement of A&P, but if you look at the overall A&P spends, they have ranged around 3% of revenues, which historically has been as usual run rate. So while I understand that there is a year-on-year increase, but how should we look at A&P spends going forward? Are they going to moderate once the season is over and from a slightly longer-term perspective? 2.5% is normally what we have, and I think that's something we expect that by the end of the year. I think you will see pretty much in that range only. But, you see- 1.5%-3%. So I think that that's something will remain in that same range. Understood, sir. And sir, if we look at the contribution margin across segments, on the contribution margins, margins look pretty okay, with some moderation in the wires and cables. But when we look at EBIT margins, the difference is a lot higher. So which are those expenses which should have gone up? I understand that there could be that 28 odd crore rupees of impairment that we have taken. But besides that, is there any other expense that won't be forming part of contribution margins, but of EBIT margins, which is impacting the margins? I think primarily it's coming out of advertisement increase, which is almost about 50% in this quarter. But also, some, as I mentioned earlier, some investments on manpower, so some salary expenses also. So these are the two major reasons. Understood, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. If you can give the breakup of cables and wires within the cable segment, and the new facility which has come up, what would be the incremental revenue at peak capacity utilization that can be added to the overall top line of that segment? Sorry, we generally are between 35%-40% for underground cables and the rest for wires. Second question was, sorry? The incremental revenue at full capacity utilization that can be coming from the cables facility which has come up. So till Tumkur facility came up, we were almost operating at 100% or 85%-90% capacity utilization for cables. Which actually now with the new facility will be at better levels. But we are also further expanding, as I mentioned, that we have committed another INR 450 crores of expansion in Tumkur facility. So that should bring the capacity utilizations to a normalized level. Understood. With respect to the lighting business, the pricing bottoming out that has been under discussion for the past three, four quarters or even more than that, especially in the lamps business. Any sense on whether it has already bottomed out in the market or if it's still yet to occur? Hopefully, I think this third, fourth quarter, we'll see the bottoming out, and next year we should start seeing FY 2026. We should start seeing real growth in lighting markets. Yeah, and how would be the breakup between lamps and fixtures for us as of now? What would have been the growth in the lamps business in volume terms this quarter or this year for that? So pretty much, you know, what has happened is, with the advent of LEDs, now even consumer luminaires, how we differentiate it, is pretty much a fixture. So actually we now don't differentiate between lamps and fixtures. So it's basically consumer luminaires versus professional luminaires, where consumer is about 60% of our business and about 40% is professional luminaires. Hmm. Volume growth in lighting has been 15% this quarter. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keyur Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance Limited. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first question on switchgear, switch and change gear. I couldn't hear it properly, but if I look at the switchgear segment's revenue growth, two year, three year, five year, whichever period we take, it is probably mid-single digit kind of growth. So, have we lost share or, if you can just throw some light what has happened in the past, and in near future, what kind of growth do you expect? Are you seeing any pickup led by real estate or even otherwise? That is first question. I think the last few years, if you recall, the construction activity also has been slow. I think it gradually started picking up, and it is. There are, I feel, three categories within this. I think there's a bit of an offset. I think there have been quarters where we have grown double digits. Is the potential, clearly, the switchgear, we all are aware that this is a consolidated industry, so I think the potential there is sort of high single digit and low double digit, and I think if you combine the three, we believe the potential is pretty much high single digit and low double digit, so we see no reason why frankly we should be sort of moving away from that, and that's what sort of we are holding out as well. Okay. The second, switchgears and ECD, both of these segments probably, if I look at longer periods, so switchgears would have seen contribution margin anywhere in the range of 38%-40% and ECD, 23%-25%. And we are either at the lower range or below that number. So where do we see contribution margin and in turn, EBIT margin for both of these categories, or is it a new normal? No, I think generally speaking, we, you know, our advertising has been between 38%-42% for switchgear. And again, you know, as you have said, between 22%-25% EBIT margins. Sometimes we do take a call to invest for the long term, which comes in a particular quarter for advertising, because this is not a product category where you advertise continuously. This is when you make a, you know, burst and then you come back again. So sometimes it can vary, but generally speaking, between 22%-25% will be it. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali from Jefferies. Please go ahead. So thank you for the opportunity. So firstly, may we have the guidance of CapEx for FY 2025, please? Right now, the committed CapEx from the company in these two, the next coming years, is already about INR 1,900 crores. Out of which we believe that about INR 1,000 crores will happen in this year. About INR 350 crores has already been done in the first half. Understood, sir. So my second question is: How is the B2B demand doing in terms of the CapEx cycle and the housing cycle? And also, I missed the number that you would have given for the breakup of volume versus value of your cables and wires division. The B2B business on the industrial side is slow right now, which generally has been good in the last year. The first six months has been low. Hopefully, you know, with the government spending now coming back, hopefully we should start reflecting some growth as well. Residential demand from a builder's point of view is regular, is not very good, not very low also. So that's why we see some decent growth coming in residential switchgear and switches and sockets. And, what was the- Fifteen. 15% is our volume growth in cables and wires, and value growth is about overall 22%. Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhaval Somaiya from Axis Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, in the previous quarter, you had highlighted that in switches and switchgear segment, the domestic growth was pretty healthy, which is, if I recollect correctly, it is 12% on a YoY basis. But there were some export orders that you had highlighted in the previous quarter, which were supposed to be shifted in this quarter. So, sir, if I were to take that into account, the growth in this quarter in switches and switchgear seems to have actually de-grown on a YoY basis. If you can just clarify that. Secondly, I would also understand that if these orders were shifted to Q2, I would believe that the expense for those orders would have been booked in Q1, and hence, you know, the margins would have should have ideally improved because the cost for those orders were booked in the previous quarter. So if you can just help me understand this better. And secondly, on Lloyd, how should one structurally look at the margins going forward? So, as far as switchgear is concerned, on the domestic side, if you look at the residential and consumer, switchgear segment, we have seen decent double-digit growth. And as I said earlier, that, industrial switchgear, there was a significant degrowth, which actually made a much lesser overall growth for the entire switchgear segment. This was not really impacted a whole lot by exports. I have not understood your second part of the question. I, I don't even know whether accounting-wise, you know... No, I think, that, the cost will be matched with the revenue. So it's not that the cost has been booked in the first quarter and the revenue will come in the second quarter. So this is, this is not very clear. So there is nothing like that. It's a matching concept. So the cost will always accompany the revenues. And as far as Lloyd is concerned, I think structurally, you know, we've been saying since last year that there is improvement on the cost efficiencies, and you know, overall, the brand acceptance is getting better and better. So we should see you know, stronger margins coming in the next one or two years. Thank you, Dhaval. The next question is from the line of Deepak Gupta from SBI Pension Funds. Please go ahead. Hi. Good afternoon, sir. My first question is on Lloyd. You know, we've been talking about de-risking the portfolio from a long-term perspective and increasing the share of non-air conditioner products in that portfolio. Where are we standing in that journey, and how do you see refrigerator and washing machine going forward over the next two to three years? Look, I think, you know, as far as Lloyd is concerned, while our strive is to keep changing the product mix, but the fact is that we are not slowing down on our growth aspirations for air conditioner as well. Having said that, you know, we are quite comforted by the fact that our acceptance of other products, which is washing machines, refrigerators, and including LED panels, is now at a good level. Most of the top A-class counters are keeping these products, and hence, the growth expectation in the coming years will be quite decent in these product categories also. So while we are maintaining that, you know, we need a certain threshold level, we believe that, you know, our investments over the last two, three years in these non-AC product categories is now really coming to fruit, bearing fruit. Understand, sir. And sir, my second question is on consumer durable segment. For the last two and a half years, we've seen top numbers from the company. How do you see that segment shaping up over the next couple of years? And do you think that there is a need of launching newer products and reducing dependence on fans, which still contribute, I believe, 65% of that segment on average? So what did you say about two, two and a half years ago? The numbers have been quite flattish on a, whichever way you cut it. It's like, it's in terms of top line growth, in terms of top line, the numbers have not really seen much growth. So, I think I mentioned earlier that we are now seeing good growth coming both in fans, because our acceptance is getting better in regions where, even appliances, water heaters, we are experiencing a good growth. So, I think we are quite bullish about ECD segment as a whole. And, I don't think that we really need to add more product categories, because we are quite strong in terms of appliances, which is a growth category, water heaters, coolers. These are all categories which could give decent growth to ECD segment. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohani from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah, good evening. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, within ECD, is it possible to get some color in terms of fans growth? You know, would it be similar to what the segment growth or higher or lower? So it's not very different than the other product categories. Understood. The second question I had, you know, if I, if I look at the employee cost, you know, it's up about 20%-25%, you know, far from the first half, and it has been seeing that kind of growth, increase actually for the last couple of years. Is it fair to say that, you know, that is a new normal, like, in terms of penetrating people, the investment in terms of number of employees, the seniority, et cetera, will keep this cost going up at the same pace, or you think it can quickly get normalized? No, I think it will get normalized over next year and the next year. But, you know, when I say normalized, means the growth will be slower. But having said that, we have been investing, not only in terms of just reach of people, but also we are investing heavily in, you know, expanding our base in R&D. So there are investments that we are making for the future. So we will take a prudent view on, you know, balance between, you know, present and the future. So I think we look at manpower in a very long-term way, not just for short-term results. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yash from Stallion Assets. Please go ahead. Hi. The growth between your AC segment and the non-AC segment in the Lloyd's consumer division? Sorry, can you... What is the question? My question is, I just want to know the volume growth between your AC segment and non-AC segment within the Lloyd's division? Breaking. Can you again repeat, please? Am I audible now? Yes. Just wanted to know the volume growth between your Lloyd's consumer division, if you can share between AC and non-AC? So the non-AC is higher than the overall Lloyd growth. I think this is that much into what we disclosed in this. Okay, sure. And within the AC division, are we seeing the channel inventory in the industry? Do you think now it's sort of more normalized because the demand, you know, it is more stable, or you think still, there's enough inventory already? No, inventory had been low at the end of the first quarter as well, and so I would say it is, it's not high at all. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's it. ... Thank you. The next question is from the line of Neeraj Jain from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is, again, on the switchgears. I just wanted to better understand what led to the decline in the contribution margin around 130 basis points that we saw in the switchgears on a Yo Y basis. Is this because of the industrial switchgear segment has a higher margin, or is there anything else to it? I think, again, as I said, you know, for us it's not really a decline, because 38%-40% is something what we strive for. It depends upon the product mix as well. Sometimes, you know, switches sales may grow faster or slower as compared to the residential, so there could be differing contribution margins. So generally speaking, we are between 38%-40%. Right. And, sir, I remember that in the previous calls, you had mentioned that the, especially in the telecom OEMs, we can continue to expect to see some degrowth in this financial year. So has anything changed there? Because, like, as you said previously, that we might expect double-digit growth in the second half for this segment. Yeah, I think same. It's the same. So we are not seeing... We are seeing actually degrowth in that segment, which is affecting the growth of residential switchgear. Though it has improved, you know, double digits, but still we are seeing degrowth in the- Particular. in the particular segment. Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Fatima from Mahindra Manulife. Please go ahead. Hello, sir, so you know, cables and wires, the new factory, so last year we did around in the cable and wires, which is around INR 1,600 crores of revenue. Is there any way one can say that the capacity that we are currently adding is potentially in order to double our revenue? Or like, what is the kind of asset to sales ratio that one can take? I think this is what we said, 25% on cables. So I don't think that it will double from this. And that's why you would have noticed that we have also announced another expansion in Tumkur, which is after this. So I think in two to three years, you will see at least 50%-60% capacity addition for the medium voltage underground cables. And so what is the kind of demand, if I could also ask? As of now, the demand environment remains robust on the cable side. Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Keyur Pandya from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance Limited. Please go ahead. Thank you. I just want to understand, in the Lloyd washing machine and refrigerators, contribution margin-wise, would they be higher than AC or EBIT, just as a starting point? As earlier, as you mentioned, that the work that you have done to establish brand Lloyd, the efforts would be relatively lower versus AC. So in that backdrop, I mean, you can just talk about the hierarchy of contribution margin. So the contribution margin in non-AC, actually right now will be, slightly lower than, than AC, because there are a lot of outsourced items as well. As you bring them in-house, I think those margins will improve. But I think let's agree that the most of the margins are driven by the, by the AC, because still the 78%- Mm-hmm. Of the business is air conditioner. But it's not, it's not something which is really dragging, too much. So I think there will be expectation on improvement in non-AC as well. But while they are not, sort of at the same level, because there is good improvement in the AC margins, you see, they are not, they are not at the same level, as the ACs. Okay, understood. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hardik Rawat from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, could you please explain how price transmission actually takes place in a cables and wires segment? Is it with a month lag? How are the increase or decrease in the metal prices passed on under both our cables businesses and wire businesses? Yeah, generally speaking, you know, it takes a little bit of time because we see the, you know, short to medium term fluctuation. And hence it, you know, first, it takes us 15, 20 days to actually decide whether, you know, this fluctuation is the normal. And then if it is, if it is prevalent, then the, you know, prices are passed on to the market. Usually speaking, if the commodity prices start going down, it's passed on to the market very quickly, because that's the expectation and, you know, the trade starts holding back. But if the prices go up, then there is a general lag in terms of being able to pass on the entire thing, because the competition also starts, you know, delaying the price increase. So when there is high level of fluctuation, it generally affects the margins in that particular month or quarter. Okay. And this is, this will be the same in case of both cables and wires, so no difference between the two categories? That is true. All right. I have fluctuation in copper, which is mostly used in domestic wires, and it impacts us more because 65% of our business is domestic. With the wire sales picking up, do you foresee the margins should, going forward, be better as- Should be better, because this was, again, as I said, a particular quarter where fluctuation happened. Actually, otherwise, margins will be better. Lastly, if you can, if you could, provide a break-up of your ECD sales within, you know, fans and other categories, water heater? We don't do that. We don't do that. All right. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take this as a last question. I would now like to hand over the conference to Miss Bhoomika Nair for closing comments. Yes. I would just like to thank all the participants for being on the call, and especially the management, for giving us an opportunity to host and answering all the queries quite a bit. Thank you very much, sir, and wish you all the very best. Thank you very much, everyone, for joining the call. Happy Diwali to everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.