Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Havells India Q3 FY 2025 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Sir. Yeah, thanks, Steve. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you all to Q3 FY 2025 results conference call of Havells India Limited. We have with us senior management represented by Mr. Anil Rai Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Rajesh Kumar Gupta, Whole-Time Director and Group CFO, Mr. Ameet Kumar Gupta, Whole-Time Director, and Mr. Rajiv Goel, Executive Director. Now, I hand over the call to the management for initial comments on the quarterly performance, and then we will open the floor for question and answer session. Thanks, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, everybody. I wish you all a very Happy New Year. Thank you for attending the call today. Hope you would have reviewed the results by now. Havells' consumer, industrial and infrastructure segments delivered healthy performance. However, commodity fluctuations impacted the domestic wire growth, resulting in moderate overall revenue growth. With the new Tumkur cable plant easing out capacity constraints for us in power cables, we had a strong revenue growth during the quarter. Further, scale-up of the plant and creation of additional capacity is underway. While switchgear saw decent revenue growth, the margins declined with mix towards project business in Q3 and factory under- absorption on account of plant relocation. We expect normalization in the coming quarters. lighting continued to deliver steady growth and margin improvement. During the quarter, we announced a INR 480 crore CapEx for new refrigerator manufacturing facility in Ghiloth, Rajasthan. This is a step towards becoming a full-stack consumer durable player. Although our investments in brand building and talent remained elevated, we anticipate these spends to stabilize. Overall, we remain positive on better growth and margin scenario in the forthcoming quarters. We can now move to Q&A. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Ravi Swaminathan from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for taking my question. We have seen a bit of weakness in the profitability in the switchgear and the ECD business. Yeah, you had mentioned that there is a bit of a mix-related issue and some shifting of plant, but was there any pricing-related action also which was there? Was there any pricing pressure because of competition or something on the ground? Not really, because what happens is generally project business comes at lower margins, and hence you can say there was a pricing gap. Otherwise, in normal trade business, there was no issue on the pricing front. But as I said, there are two factors. Even the plant relocation led to some under absorption of manufacturing overhead, so that should also normalize in the coming quarter. So switchgear, we're quite confident that it remains under 38%-40% contribution margin levels, should come back to those levels. Understood. And with respect to the lighting business, it has been, I mean, there have been talks on the ground that the pricing should bottom out anytime soon or something of that sort, but still this quarter also, I think there has been a bit of pricing decline just being there. So when do you expect this to turn around, and what would have been the real volume growth that we would have seen in the lighting business? I think if we look at YoY, then there is a price erosion, but as we are now seeing, there is a bottoming out of the price erosion. But the volume growth has been healthy. It's around 13%-14% in lighting. So we are generally positive about the lighting growth, and overall with the erosion coming or tapering, should also start showing back in profitability levels. Okay. And overall, generally demand-wise, say in the months of December, January, so far, how it has been? Are we seeing a bit of weakness, or has it started to recover? Any sense on that? Mixed feelings about that, because as we see, a large part of the business also saw some restocking within wires. Overall, consumer trend was started off a bit slow, but it started gaining a little bit traction towards the end of the quarter, so I would say it's early days to comment, but there was some sort of a positive sentiment in the consumer demand. Understood, sir. Thanks a lot. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is on the AC side. Now, third quarter, I understand, is a lean quarter for cooling products such trend. But on the appliances side, especially geysers, room heaters, and even kitchen appliances, they have done well on the ground. So I'm just trying to understand how that performs for you and what is the reason for such a sharp decline, because some benefits should have flowed in from your appliances category. So that's my first question, sir. Yeah, I think for us, we saw a very strong quarter in domestic appliances business. We also saw a stronger quarter in water heaters, though not a very high growth, because it is coming after a couple of years of flattish growth in water heater business. But we saw a very positive quarter for water heaters also. There is some amount of, I would say, restabilization and repositioning of our appliances business, which is also leading to this growth. But overall, if you compare the appliances business, the contribution margins are lower as compared to products like fans or water heaters. And hence, with the sharp growth here, we saw a little bit of a dip in the overall contribution side. But I think there's a lot of work going on towards that. The other businesses like fans, water heaters, they're all still going strong on the margin front. We are confident that overall ECD should come back to normal levels of margins in this quarter and next quarters. Understood, sir. And sir, second question, a follow-up on the lighting side. Now, I understand that because of the driver on board, there was ASP compression, but a new trend I picked up on the channel was there is also a compression that has started on chip-on-board technology. Now, I find this is primarily used for premium lighting, and because Havells is a premium player, does this impact you, or has it impacted you in the third quarter? No, I think, look, the deflationary trend you see in the pricing is across the board. So you're right. The COB also has not been sort of spared on that side. So yes, I think that's why we focus more on premium and emerging technologies. You should appreciate that when there is a deflationary trend in the LED chips, I think it will have impact. Now, the impact extent could vary. You see, on the commoditized business, it will be far severe than it will be on the, let's say, innovative product. But the effect definitely will be there. So I think the pricing trend pressure we have seen across the board, including COB. Got it. And sir, if I may, just one last question. In terms of copper prices, now we've seen a flattish trend, but January onwards, it started to pick up slightly. So given that the channel has destocked heavily in the third quarter, can we expect a rise in wires in the 4Q? Plus, cables being a seasonal quarter for 4Q, should we see a good momentum in this category in the upcoming quarters? Yeah, we are all right on both fronts. We are right on both fronts. We will see restocking happening in the domestic wire business. Also, rising copper also helps, but that is a bit of overstocking. That does not necessarily mean that the consumer demand goes up. But that is a very temporary phenomenon. And you're right, the fourth quarter is generally high for underground cables as well. Got it. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahul Agarwal from Ikigai Asset Management. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just one clarification on the earlier questions. On switchgear, just wanted to understand the need for relocation of the plant and what was the relocation cost booked for the quarter? So I will not be able to give you the cost from this call, but the need for relocation is for strategic reasons. We want to combine certain manufacturing activities, and that's a constant strategic evaluation which keeps happening between manufacturing facilities. So it's gone from where to where? The shifting happened from which location to which location? So we had a small, very old plant in Faridabad, which has now moved to Sahibabad, which is also our industrial switchgear facility. So two facilities are now combined into one. Got it, sir. So should I attribute the entire 3%-4% lower quarterly margin to the entire relocation, or is there anything else? You said industrial facility. As I said, I think there is also a product mix issue or channel mix issue between trade and products business. So that is also contributing partly to this decline. Got it, Anil G. And lastly, on the other segment, like post-COVID, I think this is the first time you reported EBIT loss. Additional investments, could you elaborate? What is the thought process, and when will it normalize? You see, the additional investment in these emerging or on the channels, which is the new channels where we are investing to grow these businesses further, you have seen a good growth in this segment, which we want to continue to sustain. And sometimes what happens is they just get captured in a quarter. So I mean, these things we believe will get normalized in next quarter. Okay. So incremental investments will continue, but it should not result into any cash burn is what you're saying, right? Yeah, that's right. Perfect, sir. Thank you so much. I will get back in the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali Salgaonkar from Jefferies India. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you for the opportunity, and wish the entire team a great 2025. Sir, my first question, sorry for checking on this again, is again on the switchgear margins, and I would like to check if I look at the EBIT segmental margin of switchgear. It used to be about 28% about a year back, and we have now come to about 18%. So I understand the interim reason of the plant relocation in this quarter, but is there anything structural in your view which is plaguing this segment, as in product mix or higher competition, or do we think it is transitory and we might get back at those 28% margins EBIT? I think 28% is also when is the quarter? Which are the quarters where we are investing in brand building for a certain product category? But I think overall, we should be around 24%-25% in switchgear. 28% is also abnormal, and 18% is also abnormal. I think 24%-25% is a decent number to expect. Got it, sir. Sir, my second question would be, any thoughts on the impending summer season? Because much of our product portfolio is also summer-centric. How are the channels reacting to that? I mean, I know it's a bit too early, but are we expecting a good summer, and is there any restocking ahead of that already? No, I think generally, once you come after a good summer season, there is a positivity in the channel. But that does not necessarily mean that it will translate into high consumption in this year, because weather is something which nobody can predict. But the general positivity is there in terms of the channel. Stocking starts happening January- February, in case of air conditioners around end February- March for fan season. So it's a bit early to say. Let's see. But the channel is generally positive, because last year when they were entering the season, it was not with a very high positive intent, but this season should be seeing some positive intent. So that's very helpful. Sir, my next question would be related to the pricing actions. Any category wherein you have contemplated or taken any pricing actions, be it either positive or negative, during this quarter? Usually there are pricing actions in lighting because of the deflation in LED. switchgears, fans, raw materials have been generally stable over a medium term, but so there's not major pricing actions. Some of the things keep happening. But with the fluctuation in copper and aluminum, cables and wires prices keep getting adjusted up and down. Understand. Sir, and because of the rupee impact depreciation, would you think because we import compressors, there could be some pricing action upward in the air conditioner segment? That is true. Any quantum? Single digits? We still have to see that. But again, as I said, these are minor variations which keep happening in the market through schemes or pricing actions. Understood. Sir, my last question, any particular reason for the strong contribution margin in the lighting segment this quarter? Again, this is generally a stronger quarter for lighting because of the Diwali season and some schemes ending. I think this is normal 30%-32%. That's the normalized contribution level for lighting. And we've been, as again the industry, we've been, because of premiumization, we've been able to maintain that level. So again, let's not compare quarter- each- quarter, but overall 30%-32% is a decent expectation. Got it. Sorry, sir, missed one point. The cables and wires channels, we saw destocking in Q3. Have the channels destocked again? Is the inventory normal right now? No, wires we saw destocking in Q3. It's coming back to normalize levels here. Got it, sir. Thank you and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, please limit your questions to two per participants. The next question is from the line of Renu. From IIFL Securities, please go ahead. Yeah, hi, good morning, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. First, on ECDs, while this particular quarter and two we have seen pressures going through, but structural ECD margins have consistently been under pressure, either for demand issues, competition, or pricing, so from a two-year to four-year perspective, do you think margins in ECDs, EBIT level, should move back to early teens, mid-teens, or they may struggle to just touch teens in the near to medium term, and what is the view on the profitability in this business? I think our focus right now in ECD is to gain shares in products where our shares were low, for example, domestic appliances, water purifiers, and hence, there is a higher level of investment going on in terms of pushing the products into modern format retail and new channels, so there is a little bit of an expectation of higher expenses, but the focus of the company, whether we are gaining it through pricing or is it real work that is happening. I think we are very confident that our contribution margins should come to normalized levels of around 24%-24.5%. Initially, there could be higher investment in expenses in brand building or channel expansion, but again, medium to long term, we should be getting closer to 12%-14%. From this, from your perspective, the non-fans category, in your view, should move to what percentage of the category mix over a four-year period? I think that's something I think we can discuss later, but right now, I think it's difficult to say. Sure. Secondly, if you look at Lloyd, consistent growth seen, and while this quarter we were in marginal loss, but overall, YTD basis, the segment has been now break-even level. So given that there is further investments on backward integration and pricing also and the repositioning is working out well, what is your view on the profitability of the Lloyd portfolio? Do you think much of the investments on brand positioning and product repositioning is already behind, and incrementally margins should improve on a YoY basis in this business to mid-single digit levels? Yeah, I think overall we are looking at expanding the margins, the contribution margins in this business. We will continue to face in non-AC category some challenges because till the time our manufacturing facility for refrigerators has come up, right now we are in the trading of refrigerators. But overall AC business, the margins are expanding. Our premiumization strategy seems to be coming out well. But that also means that while we have invested a lot in brand building and channel building, we will continue to do so. We believe that there is a huge opportunity in this. Again, as I've been saying in the last two calls also, Lloyd is a journey which we want to take and keep investing behind this brand because there's a much better opportunity for us to grow in this business. Okay. And lastly, if we see end November, December, in general, consumer demand saw significant deterioration and weakness, especially on the B2C side. So how was it at your end, and does it concern you that now it's been a couple of years that consumer demand really hasn't come out well, and there have been concerns on this on a broader side? So if you can share some of your views and insights on this. Yeah, I think when we started out this financial year, we were more positive. The first six months saw improvement in the consumer demand, but again, around the Diwali season, we started seeing some weakness. I also feel that during the end of the quarter, starting of the fourth quarter, we've seen some improvement. Underlying to all this, the overall industrial infra demand continues to remain positive, so having a mix of many things with our industrial infra business, with our focus on channel expansion, our focus on product market share expansion. So while the consumer sentiment may remain a bit weak, we will continue to do our actions and hopefully achieve growth. Sure. Thanks much. Sure. Got it. Thanks much and b est wishes. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Sheth from B&K Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just needed one clarification. In our media interaction today, we did mention ex-Lloyd margin of 12%-13%. So that was you're referring to the EBIT margin or the EBITDA margin for ex-Lloyd business? Yeah. Segment margins. So that's EBITDA margin, right? ex-Lloyd? No, that is, yeah, EBITDA, but the unallocated has to be taken out of that. So I think when you look at our analysis, we give the segment results. So this is based on that. Okay. And what is the time frame we are looking to achieve this? I think it should come back to normal levels in the coming year. FY 2026? Yeah. Okay. Sure. That was it. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from PL Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my question is related to your employee cost, and we understand in the last few quarters, employee cost has been increased, and that's more towards on the consumer-facing business we had invested in terms of the team. So how are you seeing any kind of improvement, especially in terms of the growth, especially for whether it's a Lloyd or the ECD, because of the increase in the employee expenses? And what's your expectation the way forward by putting up more investment in the employee? What kind of a growth just from this activity you are going to receive? Yeah, as I said, because of our expanded focus on adding channel, newer kinds of channel in this business, we definitely have invested ahead of time. And we have seen better than the market growth, so which we are seeing increased market shares in product categories here too where we were not very strong on newer categories. So this is an initial investment. I think over a period of time, this will normalize. There is a high level of focus on the productivity levels for such investments. So over a period of time, this should normalize. And to answer your question, yes, we have seen gains because of these investments. So any market share gain in any of the segment if you can highlight? Yeah, so again, we should not look for quarter- on- quarter, but overall, all consumer-facing categories, we have seen market share gain. Great. Thank you, sir. That's it. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Charanjit from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. First question is around the switchgear business. Can you tell us the quantum of the project business which we took in the quarter? And the second one will be even on the ECD side, the small domestic appliances, what was the size or the revenue in this quarter, and what's the margin differential versus other segments in the ECD space in the small domestic appliances? Charanjit, you are aware, we do not do the segmental analysis like this or that. We really like to maintain that. I think suffice to say that the project business has gained this quarter. Quarterly, these fluctuations do happen. So I think this is just to explain the dip in the margin in the switchgear, both attributed to the project sales higher proportion and also because of the relocation of the plant. I think similarly on the ECD, what was the appliances? There is a season for the appliances, and that's why the appliances group has been there. You are fully aware that the appliances margins are lower than the fans segment, which is when you look next quarter, the fans segment probably will have a higher growth. So I think on annual basis, I think our margins will show improvement on the same. Got it. Sir, just last question my side on Lloyd. So we are looking to get into refs and washing machines also. So in terms of our right to win in this particular segment, how we should look at that and the kind of investments which we want to back it up with, if you can touch upon those aspects? The right to win is only growing now. If you look at our AC business, I think two years, three years back, you had a similar question, what is right to win? Today, we are top three, if not top two in the ACs. I think Lloyd is gaining prominence, and as ever, I think we want to be a full-stack player in that. The fact that we are setting up factories before even scaling up these businesses, we have a strong confidence in the Indian consumer appliances market and also the consumer. And I think the consumer is now recognizing Lloyd as a not only long-term brand, the brand with a differentiation. That's why, unlike others, we do not want to just buy from these OEMs who give the similar product to everyone and then present it in the market. And I think if at all our journey in the washing machine has given us confidence, the diffusion of differentiated product, I think it will be well accepted by the consumer, and that's what the journey we are embarking upon. And it will be a journey which will be long-term. We are not talking about next few quarters here. Got it, sir. Thanks for taking my question, sir. All the best for the future. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead. Yeah, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, in the cables and wires segment, if you could give us some sense in terms of the volume growth in cables, wires, and overall? Overall volume growth in cables was almost around 11%-12%. It was slightly negative in the wires. So overall, it was flat volume growth for the segment as a whole. Okay. Because the average copper prices are up almost 15% YoY, so I was just curious to understand if the wires have seen a decline, and as a result, we have got only 7% growth. The impact, first of all, was around, I think, 9%-10%. That's why we said there was a degrowth in wires and the growth in cables, which we have already explained. Overall, I think there has been a slight flattish volume growth in this. Understood. Secondly, just, I know you don't want to segmentize, but is it fair to say that the fans, water heater could have grown at a single digit, mid-single digit, and appliances have grown in 20%? As a result, they've got a 15% growth? No, I think all of them have grown double-digit, but yes, you are right. Appliances have grown more than the fans and the water heaters. Understood. And in terms of the CapEx, if you could help us understand, you've mentioned in the interview INR 1,000 crore for current year and next year. Where do we see, apart from the cables and the refs, anything else where we are looking at adding capacity? I think almost 3/4 of the CapEx will be attributed to these two, and the balance is the balancing CapEx, in any case, we do every year, such as we say the normalized CapEx. Understood. Understood. Great, sir. I'll come back for the follow-ups. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akshay Gattani from UBS. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. So my question is on cable and wire segment with Tumkur plant ramping up and more CapEx lined up. So can this drive revenue mix change from 60% wire to 40% cable? Can this revenue mix change? The reason asking this, he was being a premium player in housing wires and enjoys industry-leading pricing. So can this impact segment-level contribution? No, we do not. We believe wire has a good growth potential. And again, I would not suggest you to really look at one quarter and extrapolate that. There is a significant potential, both wire and cable. We do not see. Look, we are catching up on cables. You are aware of this. You guys have been raising this question for, I think, the last few quarters. Now, the additional capacity is ticking and is helping us. But we are still sort of, you see, gaining what we have sort of not due to us maybe in the last sort of few quarters and all. So we do not see any significant shift happening, you see, on this proportion. In two years- three years, what happens, I think time will tell. But the expansion, let me just clarify, is both on the cables and the wire side as well. It's just that the significant CapEx is required in cables. But it doesn't mean we are sort of, you see, de-prioritizing wires. We are an eminent player in wires, and we'll continue to be so. Got it. Thank you, sir. Second question, sir, is on the channel inventory for the dealer distributor, particularly on the ECD side. And does higher SG&A sales and promotion expenses, does this reflect any kind of higher dealer distributor incentive schemes during the quarter? No, it's not on the pricing. We are investing in multiple channels. You are fully aware how in India, a lot of channels are proliferating now. Examples are the QCs, you see, with quick commerce and all. Similarly, the semi-urban, you see, the MFRs. Everybody is gaining ground these days. And we have to be part of being an eminent brand. We have to be part of every channel. So they are the investments which may not have been present, let's say, last year. So those investments have to be made. But do not assume that they are part of any discounting or any pricing action. Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, would you say some of the categories have started seeing higher growth tailwind from the residential end market? And do you think the tailwind should start accelerating? I think this should be very difficult to attribute, but structurally, we will agree that we have been expecting the real estate, whatever the next year real estate to kick in and support the consumer demand, particularly the residential consumer demand. To that extent, maybe you are correct, but I think very difficult to attribute now, but something is supporting that, and hopefully, this will continue to now sustain going forward as well. Right. Actually, my second question is on overall profitability of this alternate channel. What we have seen is that there is a material change in the channel mix for Havells. We have developed alternate channels significantly by doing investment. But sir, generally speaking, would you say that at current level, as well as structurally, the profitability of all this new channel is lower than your general trade channel at EBIT level? To begin with, could be, but we do not see much differentiation going forward. You will appreciate the cost of selling also could be lower in that. So I think it's still getting figured out, but we do not believe or expect that there will be huge difference, you see, on the net level between the two channels. The way they are compensated for their efforts could be different. But on a net basis, on stabilization, we do not see much difference among the channels. That cannot sustain. You see, that is not possible. Thanks. But currently, you would say it is materially lower? Not materially lower. Now, whether you call it investment or expense depends upon that. But yes, it will be. It will be. It's an investing phase. So as I said, but this is not necessary to do the pricing. You see, you get ISDs there. You have to put people there. So those kind of things, you have to invest in people in your own company who interact with them. The GT guys may not be able to do that. So yes, they are additional investments. But don't attribute that to the pricing action. See, this is what I'm trying to bring forth again and again. Right. And the last one, I wanted to understand in the switchgear segment, how much of the business is actually the domestic switchgear and how much is the electrical wiring accessories business, which is switchgear? Around 40%, 40%, 20%. 20% is industrial. Yeah. Thank you for answering my questions and all the very good. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aniruddha Joshi from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Sir, just on the quick commerce as well as MFI channels. So if you can elaborate a bit more about the investments that we would have done. And again, what is the current contribution of these two channels to the revenues? And in a way, where do you see it changing post these investments? Also, MFI channel is also going through a lot of issues. So how do we handle that? And then second question is on the CSD. We have heard that there are a lot of inventory correction happening in the CSD channels also. So that is also in a way hurting the primary sales while secondary sales continue to remain high. So any update on these two questions or channel? So QC, MFR, both are emerging. QC is obviously still in essence. It's going much far. I think, Rajiv, there might be a confusion between we are saying MFR, he's understanding as MFI. Oh. No, we don't do MFI. Aniruddha, are you talking MFI like this? Microfinance. Microfinance. Hello? Yes, sir. No, no, no. Sorry. So I thought no, MFI, we do not have much exposure. We don't do MFI business. Oh, okay. Sure, sir. Thanks for clarifying. Actually, I thought it's MFR. No, MFI, we do not have any exposure. We don't do MFI business. And that investment is small. Just to answer your question, Aniruddha, quick commerce is a very new start. And I think while the volumes are very small, it may be a promising business. We are still evaluating. We have started doing business in that. But certain product categories go well there. When we talk about modern format retail, there is heavy investment in demonstrators initially. And once the products are well placed, so that's why the investments are higher. Consumer durables is highly dependent on MFR now. Almost INR 500 crore of sales will be coming for Havells products only from MFR. But also for Lloyd, it's a much bigger category, much bigger channel. So these investments will normalize over time, but initially, when you have to place them, these are higher investments. Okay. Sure, sir. And sir, regarding CSD, Canteen Stores Department? CSD has been under some amount of fluctuation. It's a smallish business for us, but it is now coming back to normal. Okay. Sure, sir. And last question. In any of the category, any market share movement, if you can highlight. Let's say, even in lighting or switchgear or even wires also, is there any material impact on the market share or gains also? Yeah, that's it from my side. Thanks. Yeah, I think the best would be to actually wait out for the entire year and we'll see that because these are trends which are very quarter to quarter. But would not like to comment on a quarter basis on this. Sure, sir. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pranay Chatterjee from Burman Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks. Good morning, everyone. My question is with respect to the room air conditioner business. Lloyd has grown by about 15% this quarter. Sir, could you give us a sense on how fast the overall AC industry could have grown from a wholesale perspective in the third quarter, and would Lloyd AC volumes grown faster than that? I think I would say, again, best not to look at this particular quarter anyway because this is a quarter where the consumer demand is slow. And whatever trends happen, it's more towards stocking the channels. So I would suggest, again, let's compare these things after the full season is over. Got it. So then if you could just give us a sense that within the Lloyd growth of 15%, would AC have grown faster than the 15%? No. The other categories have grown faster than AC. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Umang Mehta from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question was on wires. So outside of this quarterly volatility and stocking and destocking, it seems like the secondary growth is also weaker than what we were expecting. So any sense on what is happening, any color on secondary sales in wires? No, we do not have that. Generally speaking, it's in line with the industry growth. I don't think there's much happening in terms of because wires growth is predicated on the overall residential growth, which actually has been positive. So I think overall, the secondary growth has been positive in case of wires. Understood. Sure. That was my only question. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tavishi Mehta from ICICI Prudential. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Just one question on the similar line. So last quarter was destocking and this quarter was destocking. So can you please give us some understanding on the volume growth of wires of last quarter as well as this quarter? We can provide that. You can do with IR team because we do not have the last quarter right now, but we'll share it with you. Sure, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chaitanya from Paterson PMS. Please go ahead. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. So my question is on the broader line, especially on your B2C side of the business, where we have seen some impact on the margin because of the product mix changes. So can we correlate this to the whole consumer industry where the rural demand is higher than the urban demand? And if we can get just a hint of also mix in terms of urban and rural in the B2C business? So rural is still not the last part of our business, unlike FMCG. So it will be difficult to say. But yes, rural demand has held well. But we will not attribute, you see, what we call the weakening of margins to that. I think there have been multiple reasons for the same. And you see, the way we are seeing this strengthening in the consumer demand, hopefully, which will sustain, I think it will help us to have a better product mix and the margins as well. But I don't think, at least in our case, I'm sure for our industry as well, rural or urban segregation plays such a significant role. All right. All right. So in general, can we say that from the margin point of view, at least from the B2C point of view, that we can see improvement from here on, at least from the early indicators that you mentioned that positive demand is there? That's right. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you very much. That's very good. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time, this will be our last question. It's from the line of Nirransh Jain from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first question on the ECD side. So just wanted to better understand. You mentioned that the contribution margin decline was because of the product mix shift towards the SDA. But isn't there a seasonality angle to it, with mostly the third quarter having a higher mix towards the SDA versus like fans? So what exactly led to this product mix shift in this quarter? That is my first question. I think the growth in SDA was far higher, you see, than the because you are doing comparison with the last year, basically. So growth in SDA was far higher than the growth in the other categories. Yes, seasonality-wise, it is favoring the SDA, but the extent of that favor or the growth, the proportion is much higher than the portfolio of ECD in this quarter than it was the last quarter. That is the reason. Sure, sir. And sir, secondly, on the switchgear side, again, I'm sorry, coming back to the same question. I feel like I can understand this quarter-specific reasons with plant relocation and product mix shift. But we are seeing consistent margin decline for the last three quarters. I'm talking about the contribution margins for annual decline. So do we see this product mix shift towards project business as just a transient in nature, and there is nothing structural with the shift happening more towards project versus the modular switches because of rising competition? Well, there could be multiple levers. I think we are pointing out what particularly happened in a quarter. But you see, those forces are in play. And that's why we believe the way we are looking at premiumizing and sort of improving the portfolio, it gives us the confidence. And I think to an earlier question, you just mentioned that maybe the 28% was in the segment margins now. But on the other side, 18% also not. So I think we'll be somewhere between 23% and 24%. So you will see the improvement, but obviously, it may not be up to the 28%, which maybe they have a couple of years back or three years back. Sure, sir. Got it. That's from my side and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today's conference call. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. Thank you for attending this call. I wish you and everybody a very happy 2025. On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.