Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the IIFL Finance Q2 FY 2025 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kapish Jain, Group CFO, IIFL Finance. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us, joining in our quarter two earnings call for financial year twenty-four, twenty-five. I just would hand over the line to Mr. Nirmal Jain, our Founder and Managing Director, to give you a perspective on the company's performance for quarter two before I take it back again and talk on our numbers as well. Thank you, Kapish, and welcome everybody on the call. I think, as all of you are aware, about the RBI, that RBI had put an embargo on the gold loan business in terms of sanction disbursement on March fourth of this year, and the same was lifted on nineteenth of September, after six and a half months later. I think we have been able to satisfy RBI with our compliance, rectifications, and all the corrections that we did. We have strengthened our compliance as well as all assurance functions which comprise this economic as well, and we continue to do so. While this period has been challenging, I think we emerged stronger from this, and this is something that would have happened to many strong companies that they face short-term challenges. In the last one month, what we are seeing is the resilience of the company and the team, that we are coming back strongly. The customers' loyalty is also very heartening and satisfying. As we restarted our business in the month, we have seen that the gold loan book, which had fallen from INR 26,000 crores to around INR 10,000 crores by the time the ban, the embargo was lifted, is around 10,000-odd crores now. And, as you know, we could apply to banks only after the embargo was lifted and bank funding is a process of 3-4 weeks. So we expect the liquidity to improve, and that will allow us to, you know, grow the book or continue to grow the book at a good pace. In terms of otherwise, the environment is very good about the gold loans as well as SME business, so, and all our businesses in the affordable home loans business also, we are seeing that the demand is picking up, and interest rates seem to be peaking out. We'll see that the demand growth continues. The new government has also reintroduced although in a modified form, the affordable housing incentives through PMAY schemes and so on. Microfinance business has been passing through a bit of challenging times. Maybe later in the question answer round, we can discuss this more, but primarily because, after the liberalization of loan to the microfinance JLG, there have been concerns about overborrowing by these customers. And then MFIN came up with a guidance of not more than four loans per customer, and that basically would have led, has led to some bit of stress in some of the borrowers. We believe that it might take maybe this quarter, next quarter, but again, the business will bounce back with strength. With this, I hand it over to Kapish for a more detailed discussion on the financials, and then, he'll come join me back for a Q&A. Thank you, Nirmal. Yeah. So, now for the quarter, for the second quarter of 2025, IIFL Finance at a consolidated level reported a net loss before non-controlling interest of INR 92 crores, which is down by 118% YoY, and 128% quarter on quarter. We recorded a pre-provision operating profit of INR 722 crores, which is 121% YoY and 13% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. For the quarter, consolidated loan AUM grew by 8% on a YoY basis, and grew by 4% on a quarter-on-quarter basis to 66,964. Our core AUM, what we call the products we are focusing on is microfinance, gold, home, digital loan. It grew by around 7% YoY and 2% QOQ, to 65,045, forming around 97% of the total overall loan AUM. There was one exception item which we have reported in our financials, which is also elaborated further on slide number five. The company had certain AIF investments which were due to mature in June 2024, for which it preferred an in-specie distribution of assets, so depending on underlying company, in view of the AIF investment. Subsequently, these investments will be assigned to an ARC. The book value of the SR, with the same underlying assets as of September 2024, was INR 586.5 crores. The RBI circular on December 19, 2022, on investments in AIF, required 100% provisioning of AIF investments if they are not liquidated within 30 days of the circular. To comply with the spirit of this circular, a provision equivalent to 100% of the book value of the SR was made in this quarter, which caused an overall loss. However, this being absolutely an exception item, we do not expect this to reoccur, and the same is disclosed, and so, and rightly, as an exception item. On the business as usual basis, our gross NPA ratio at under control at around 2.4%, and net NPA around 1.1%, which is marginally up by 61 basis points and 3 basis points respectively, compared to same period last year. Our ECL provision gives an overall provisioning coverage on the NPA assets on 106%. Our assigned loan book stands at around INR 13,948 crore, down by 24% YoY, and 5% QoQ. Besides this, there are co-lending assets of INR 8,489 crore, which is again, down by 20%. Now, all of this is getting back because the gold embargo was not in place for the last six months. Quarterly average cost of borrowing marginally increased by 12 basis points YOY to around 9.15%. From a liquidity perspective, during the quarter, we raised around INR 3,216 crores through term loans, bonds, commercial papers, including INR 180 crore and INR 82 crores was raised through re-assignment of our loans. From a cash and cash equivalent perspective, we hold around INR 3,882 crores, which is adequate to meet our liabilities, and we are looking for, as mentioned, further mobilization of liquidity through to boost our growth since the embargo has been lifted. We are positive on ALM across all our buckets, and our net gearing with the infusion of capital that we raised in quarter one of around INR 1,272 crores is comfortably staying around 2.7. Our annualized ROE stands around 5.2% negative, while ROA was 0.7% negative. As of 30 September, our capital adequacy with the infusion of capital stands at around 26.3, and the housing finance is 14.49%, and for Samasta, the CAR is 30.5. So across all the entities, the capital adequacy is way above the minimum 15% requirement from regulatory perspective. That's all ladies and gentlemen. I'll now open the floor for question and answer. Yes. Sure. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from Dhaval, from DSP. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just two questions. One is relating to this AIF provision that we have created. When do we expect the writeback, any thoughts around that would be useful? And the second question was relating to the gold book. Now that the ban has been lifted, how do we see, you know, the ramp up, and when do we get back to our original size? Like, do we have a timeframe and strategy around that? Some color around that would be useful. Thanks. So I, yeah, recovery will take about, you know, all the full recovery of the underlying assets, you know, as they get monetized, may take about two to three years, and gold loan, you know, I mean, it's very difficult to say, but I think, you know, by March quarter end, you know, we should be back to where we were a year before, you know, so that is what my estimate will be. But I think, nobody can really see how things will pan out from here in terms of market, but that's what my guess would be. And, Nirmal, just on the gold business comeback, so this, you know, like, what are the one or two big changes that we are sort of doing in terms of, you know, like the absolute quantum delta in the next few quarters that you expect is quite material. So what are the one or two big changes? I've already seen rate, but any other points that you want to highlight to sort of see how we get back the lost business? So I think, you know, we aren't doing anything extraordinary in terms of being aggressive or whatever. We are just, customers are coming back. There's a relationship with the customers that we have for many customers for more than ten years. And, as they come, as the loan, you know, whenever they have taken the loan, the tenure gets over, then, you know, we see that the customers, you know, most many cases, they prefer to come back to us. And, secondly, one good thing that has happened in the industry is that now I think it's become completely cashless, more or less. It's become completely digital, which is easier from a long-term perspective and good for the industry, going forward. What we realized is that again, there is a fear that if we move away from cash and customers will go back to money lenders, but I think customers have digital general accounts or UPI. Sometimes you have to educate and make sure that the activation happens, but as even the competition has gotten away from cash, so that is, I think, one healthy practice. I think more or less, the industry is now becoming fully compliant, and so that also is a good development, I would say. Given that the gold prices are firm, I think there's a demand at the ground level in the economy. Many of our customers are, you know, small businesses again. So, we see that, you know, there should not be... there'll be good traction going forward in next few months. Sure. And just last question on the MFI business. How do you think, you know, the credit cost is likely to move in the next, you know, like, couple of quarters, and how are we looking to navigate this cycle? Any color on that would be useful. Yeah, I think, Venkatesh, who is the CEO of our Samasta, you know, he'll take this question. Yeah. I mean, the, if you look at the most of the trends which stand out in the quarter two, we have seen some, mild improvement in quarter, three. I mean, it's still early days for us in the month of October. Given the whole thing, if you look at, given 65% of our overall customers who borrow are agri or agri with livelihood-... and their income levels have, will, given the monsoons have done well, will not see a dip, and we see that these, things are stabilizing. And also our fresh lending, if you look at it, we introduced our guardrails even much before anything got about it. We had got it in nothing. So our new book is still doing well. As the stress is only with our older thing, which will also ease out and by the quarter three and quarter four will look much better. Got it. Thanks. All the best. Thank you. The next question is from Abhijit Tibrewal from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Just, again, circling back to the gold loan business, we've also seen a management change in our gold loan business. Mr. Sharad Kumar has moved to a group role now. So are we now looking to appoint someone internally to lead this business, or are we looking for an external hire? Also, I mean, earlier in the question, when Dhaval asked about your outlook on gold loan business, you shared that we are looking for normalcy to come back by March quarter and maybe go back to where we used to be prior to the ban. But are we working with some gold loan growth targets now in mind, if not for this year, at least from next year onwards? That is my first question. No, sorry, what is the second question? Next year, what do you want to do? Sorry, what is the question about? So the question is, and while you said that by March quarter, and we are expecting it, expecting that we will be where we used to be prior to the ban in the gold lending business, not in terms of loan book, but in terms of momentum. So I mean, if not for this year, at least from next year onwards, are we thinking about, how we want to grow in terms of some loan growth targets for the gold loan business? Okay. So first thing, the management changes are in normal course of the business, so, you know, people, I mean, they're there for long time, long term, so there's nothing more than that to read into it. In terms of hiring internally or externally, these things are, you know, unless they are done, it's very difficult to make a statement on this, because we have quite a few talent available inside also. But obviously, they are doing their jobs, I mean, there's... And at the same time, we also want to strengthen our management team, which, you know, and actually, normally, all our businesses, we prefer a cross-breed of talent, where we try to take it from a few very good players in the industry, so that we get the best practices from multiple players. So these are things which are very difficult to make a futuristic or a forward-looking statement, because we have a very good HR team and NRC, which is Nomination and Remuneration Committee, so they look at all the senior management and take a call on that. Second thing is, how do we look at the growth next year? So one is that, you know, you would have noticed when we say digital loan, this is our business loan, and this is the MSME loan. And we have our gold loan in many of our customers are MSME. So, in terms of when we look at our standalone company, we'll try and diversify it little bit more, so the loan against property, which is the secured business loan. And unsecured business loan, I mean, that business probably will grow faster. Next year, growth will depend on a number of factors, including gold prices as well as the economy and the economic activity, so we don't want to make any guidance or a forward-looking statement, but that all depends on industry and the economy, but in terms of strategy for a particular product, yes, we'll grow business loan. I mean, given the small base and investment that we made in last six, seven months, that will grow a little, that is expected to grow faster, but that again, as I said, depends on the macro environment. Got it. Thanks. Second question was that I had was for Venkatesh. So I mean, while you said that early days seeing mild improvement in third quarter and the fact that we already implemented those guardrails that that MFIN recently came out, just trying to understand, I mean, in your assessment, I mean, what could likely credit costs be for the MFI business for this full year, given that I mean, you already saw Q2 was elevated. And when we speak to other, your NBFC, MFI peers, no one is really kind of giving that sense that things have already peaked out in the MFI space. So how are you thinking about the MFI business? Yeah. Earlier when I answered, I said it is early signs of some kind of stabilization. I didn't say it is peaked out or something. But, in terms of the credit cost, if you look at it, we should be hovering anywhere between around 3.5%-4% kind of a thing for this year. Got it. Got it. And so last question that I had, I mean, some of it is data keeping, and some of it is on the credit costs. One is, I mean, this time around, if I go through our P&L, on the other income side, some of the items like, net gain on fair value changes and the assignment income that you report, they are higher. So just trying to understand, I mean, are they going to be at these levels, or there is something lumpy out there? And also, on the assignment income side, have you done any assignments, after the gold loan ban was lifted, is one thing that I wanted to understand. The other thing is, if I look at credit costs for this quarter, credit costs, even in our standalone entity was elevated. I was just trying to understand, was it just some residual cleanup on the gold loan side that we did, or this was predominantly coming from our- CRE business. Sorry, now, I think you have two questions. One was about the assignment. So the assignment was done in housing finance, because rural business has been continuing. And, given our strategy where we were, we believe in, maybe 40% of, is off books, so that can be either by way of assignment or co-lending. So assignment transitions, you can expect, you know, more or less every quarter. And then second, coming to the lumpy trend, yes, there is one, where the NSE shares and most significant part of it has been, sold, and that profit has been booked in January, a minimum of INR 80 crore roughly. So I think that is not, recurring. But, you know, from the treasury, we have something or other, you know, that there are possibilities, but there is one lumpy item in the calendar year. You would recall we had NSE shares, which we sold in last quarter. Yes, sir, I recall that. And so, again, the second question was credit costs in the standalone entity also appear a little elevated. Was it some cleanup that you've done on the gold loan side, or was it predominantly coming from the CRE portfolio? No, it's coming from NPA actually, and NPA book is also growing, so we increased our provision, and we are fairly conservative provisioning policy. So, the increase in the NPA in the standalone is primarily because of NPA. Got it. And so just one, just trying to squeeze in one last question. I mean, given how the environment is, everyone is talking about broad-based stress that they're seeing in unsecured segments. Despite that, I mean, our guidance that we'll continue to grow our digital loans, unsecured business loans. I mean, how are we looking at it, I mean, in an environment like this? Very good question. Yeah. So the worry about unsecured loan is more on the personal loan and consumer loan, which is buy now, pay later, or personal loan, where, you know, many times harried people, because they offer too many loans and they get over the bill. Our focus of digital loan as an unsecured loan is entirely a business loan. And there are two advantages, you know, that we have over, say, a personal loan or unsecured personal loan business. One is, these are covered by insurance, so I think government has two very good insurance schemes, CGTMSE and CGFMU, so the one covers loan less than 10 lakh rupees, and the other one covers loan above 10 lakh rupees. We've applied, and we have got the approval now. So now onward, that will be able to, the approval has recently come, and there's a process, and then we will apply with it. So, from this quarter onwards, we'll be able to take advantage of that also. Secondly, you know, all the banks, because, on their own, you know, they find it difficult to achieve the Mudra targets or the SME or MSME segment of the priority sector lending. So we are seeing very good, response from the banks to partner with these loans and, and also the risk is priced in. So there will be losses, you know, which can go up to, in a bad cycle, up to 5%-6%. But then, you know, the interest rate also is around 30% -34%. So, our strategy basically is, you know, to make sure that we are protected by insurance cover. Of course, our credit quality also, we can be strict and not that we all underwrite anything, but we can deliver our distribution network to serve the loan. And third is the, you know, the bank partnership model, where risk, along with the benefit of priority sector, is also transferred to bank. Got it, sir. This is very, very useful. Thank you very much and wish you and your team the very best. Thank you. The next question is from Shubhranshu Mishra, from Phillip Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, Nirmal. Hi, Kapish. Two questions. The first one is, what is the level of provisions and write-offs you are going to see in the microfinance business going forward in the next couple of quarters? Second is on the gold loans. Are we seeing any customers or, what is the proportion of customers who are coming up and pledging their gold in order to pay up for their unsecured exposure? Thanks. So I think yesterday spoke about around 4%, 3% and 4% of NPA in this year, in terms of, which is, I think the first two quarters, we have done NPA, which is INR 300 crores already in Samasta, in microfinance, and the book around 10,000-odd crores. So maybe, you know, 10,000? Ten thousand. Microphone. And the total, twelve thousand, twelve thousand four hundred. So maybe, Madhav, in terms of the current expectation is, whether it will improve in the next two quarters, broadly. Right. So that is the maybe five or four billion, five, whatever we are talking about. What would be the write-off out of this? Gold loan to be unsecured loan. We have not seen that kind of tendency. You know, somebody doing and not disclosing is a different thing, because there's not something that we normally capture in the, you know, the stated end use. But I, my, you know, gut feel from talking to people, I don't think that's very exceptional, but it's not the trend. Understood. And what has been the write-off in microfinance in the first two quarters, and what is the write-off we are expecting in the next two to three quarters? I think the write-offs and loan loss provisions put together will be around this thing. What are if you want to have total write-offs, three hundred and seven thousand crores in the first, I think two quarters, we have taken the total loan losses and provisions of three hundred crores. No, I get that. Odd crores and, over and above write-offs, hundred crores your provision. What is the write-off we are expecting in the next two quarters or three quarters? I think, well, Venkatesh, do you have the estimates with you or, you know, if you look at in the last, it will be, we are trying to minimize things. I mean, if you look at in the last quarter, we were able to figure out what it could scale up to. Now, we have a collection mechanism where we will be working on, even there'll be a lot of pullbacks in terms of, the ninety plus and the provisions we have made and even the write-offs we have taken. So we don't expect it to go drastically above from what, we have already done in the first two quarters. Understood. Incrementally, I think it should be 4% as a non-loss provision. Write-offs/provisions put together can be another 100 crores in the next two quarters. Yeah, that should be enough. Unless, you know, if based on the current estimate, but again, we don't make a forward-looking statement with this, how this evolves with, you know, one has to watch. Understood. This is very helpful. Best of luck for ensuing quarters. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Vivek Ramakrishnan from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Thank you. It's a continuing question and with the other questions. So let me start with microfinance. Venkatesh, microfinance, you know, when you say there's, you know, stability, the PAR 0 going to PAR 30, PAR 30 going higher, has it flowed off, has the momentum flows been improving over the last few quarters? Do you see any improvement from that? Another way of asking the question is, whatever is there, you're going to be writing it off, but the new flow is not going to be that significant. See, Vivek, if you look at the flows have actually not completely stopped. I mean, if you look at the quarter two was the worst quarter, I mean, we have gone through. What I mentioned earlier was the given that we have the October month is a lot of holiday thing, we are seeing slight stabilization in terms of the flow. So, I mean, we will be at post all the festivals getting done, so that's when the stability of the sector would be seen. So we are seeing post somewhere around the normal fifteen kind of a thing, where the stability we'll be able to see. As of now, the collection efficiencies have slightly improved from what we saw in the month of September. Oh, excellent. The second question is on the digital loan or the unsecured SME loan. Nirmal had mentioned about credit loss guarantees which are there. How much does it cover, in the sense that what is the typical SME loan loss in a unsecured portfolio, in your portfolio that you're estimating? And then what will be the overlay of insurance that will reduce it to for going forward? So, Vivek, it's quite a complicated scheme, but I'll try and briefly explain it to you. So there are two schemes, one above ten lakh rupees and one less than ten lakh rupees. So above 10 lakh rupees, they cover only twice the premium, so 1% is the premium, so maximum they can cover is 2%. So broadly, 1% of losses can be covered by that scheme above 10 lakh rupees. You get it? Less than ten lakh rupees, what they do is you can cover 15% of your portfolio, in which 3% of losses will be borne by the originator like us, you know, by the company. And out of the remaining losses, 75% is given by the insurance. So to put numbers in perspective, if you have thousand crores rupee of portfolio, you can cover maximum one fifty. So that is good enough, because normally one wouldn't expect more than 13% of losses. And out of that 3%, which is about four and a half, is borne by you, and say out of the remaining losses, 75% they will pay you. So roughly INR 109 crores can come from them, if you have a INR 1,000 crore portfolio and your losses are maximum up to say, 15%. But this is how the numbers work. I mean, you got it? For the less than 10 lakh rupees loan. Yeah, yeah, perfect. Thank you. This is very useful, and- ...... Around ninety basis point or a hundred basis point, that is what we would pay. Okay, yeah. Thank you. That was very useful. So in summary, above 10 lakh rupees, you should can restrict your losses to 2%, otherwise, you know, and there are also like a 1% premium, 1% subsidy. In less than 10 lakh rupees, it can be significantly better, but of course, they will, 75% they'll bear, 25% still you have to bear. So that 25% over and above first 3% of losses. Okay, got it. Thank you, and seasonal greetings to all of you. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Yash Dantewadia from Dante Equity Capital.. Please go ahead. Hi, Am I audible? Hello? Yeah, I hear. Yeah. So I wanted to know, now, on the gold loan side, going forward, since we have a lot of capital, right, and we've raised capital to raise to two, et cetera. What I want to understand is, are we going to focus on gold loan itself or are we gonna focus on co-lending? Because right now we have no reason to focus on co-lending, because we have surplus capital, and we want to get profitability, and co-lending is not very profitable, right? And, can you shed some light on that whole area, how you're going to go forward? Right now, our capital is good, but in three to six months, as we get back to the earlier level, it will get back to those, you know, again, the older level. So as a strategy, nothing changes because we continue to focus on both, co-lending as well as our own loan book in a ratio of 60/40 that we had historically for the entire portfolio. And, But actually, we should be focusing on gold loans itself, right? Why co-lend? Why co-lending is, liquidity, and the use of capital, then that allows you to grow without damaging capital. So at this point in time, what you're saying is right, that this quarter, next quarter, we can see, you know, that we can do our own book. But, you know, you want, as you want our capital efficiency also to be 15% is minimum requirement, but we want it to be around 20% or more just as a margin of safety, and that is where co-lending helps. See, the reason I raised this point is your microfinance is clearly slowing down, and I don't see microfinance recovering for the next six to eight months. Right. Definitely on the microfinance end, you're not going to be able to increase the book size. Home loan side, that is going to grow at a steady rate of 15-20%, from what I'm able to see. Now- Right. Now, since the microfinance part is not growing and you don't want to grow your unsecured book, you're obviously going to focus on growing your secured book, which is the gold finance book, at a much higher rate. So So you don't need to co-lend at least for six, seven months, right? Because co-lending is, you are completely right. I get your point on the capital side, but co-lending is not very profitable. So anyways, that was just one point that I wanted to make. So what you're saying is right, that now I think that the focus is more on the secured, where gold loan as well as LAP is another product which is also secured product as a part of business mix. Right. So, do you see MSME, sorry, key word? See, co-lending is a long-term strategy, because see, what happens is, if you go, like our... What it allows you to leverage, so even with a reasonable ROA, your ROE can be significantly higher. But for the time being, maybe like we have to see for next one or two quarters, and then... Yeah, yeah. So I have to look at the strategy. You're completely right. Co-lending works. You've been doing it, you've been growing at a 15%-25% CAGR in the, you know, gold loan space. Absolutely right. Again, this is the base of growth. I mean, for the time being, we have to watch for the next one or two quarters, and then rework on the strategy. Exactly, exactly. So I was just saying, at least for the first six months, I think you can focus on gold loans and take it into your own books, and then maybe focus on co-lending as and when the old book is built back up. That is something I wanted to point out, because clearly your unsecured space is kind of wobbly for the next six to nine months, at least, till the whole microfinance cycle plays out. So that was point number one. Now, can you talk more about our focus on the MSME portion? How are we planning? Are we planning to grow that at a significant pace, if the secured MSME I'm talking about? How are we focusing on that whole segment? And also on the housing loan front, there have been talks about an IPO for value unlocking. I think, in the last interview that I watched, you said something about two years, sort of timeline. So could you throw some light on that too? Okay. So MSME is, you know, so, because we have a very large distribution network, and, as we roll out a product, we on a small base, growth can be good. But, you know, this is something which is because we got our 2,000 standard branches for gold loans, and if you add up all our branches, then we have more than 4,000 branches, including microfinance as a product. So, you know, the loan against property is a product which our branches can do, and in the six months, six and a half months of marketing gold loan, we were training our people to, do the unsecured as well as secured business. Now, unsecured business means business, although unsecured basically obviously evokes a negative emotion about risk and quality of assets. But as I said, that this is something which is priority sector lending, which is what government is also pushing banks to achieve the target because, that's for the economic growth. And, you know, just to give you perspective that despite so much of push on MSME, in India, MSME contributes 30% of GDP. In China and South Korea, where the countries have grown very rapidly in last two to three decades, it's 50%-60% of the economy. So MSME has a long way to go, and the only way MSME can grow, is by availability of credit, and, distribution of credit. And there are 85 million MSMEs, so the number is so large and enormous, that the banking system alone cannot achieve this target or, this, objective or mission. So we're working partnership, and that's why government is supporting by way of business schemes or by way of targets of private sector lending. What we have to do is that we have to partner with the banks, and make sure that, you know, we do what we are good at, and then the banks basically also we help banks to achieve the targets and, make sure that the risk is contained within the price that we charge. So that is about MSME. What was the second question? About listing of the- Yeah, listing is again. Sorry, so I don't think we'll do an IPO, yes, because unlikely. I mean, I can't say we'll not do or do because this is- No, no, no. But we have an investor in our housing finance company, and every investor basically needs to, you know, some kind of option to exit or liquidate. But there's no rush or no hurry. But when we do this, you know, whatever we have discussed, the preferred option, what we have done for the group is demerger of the businesses, so that without any further dilution or without any change in the economic interest of various shareholders, the companies get separately listed. That has an advantage that we can attract different types of investors because... There are some investors who are keen to invest in microfinance, who are more oriented towards social goal. There are investors who are very keen on housing finance, and then there are investors who are going on the other businesses. So, but I think it's a process, and the process takes time. So at this point in time, nothing has yet been discussed or approved by the board, and whenever that happens, obviously we'll let everybody know. Yeah, but see, after the Bajaj Housing sort of listing, it's very clear that HFC is that are able to grow their book at a 20% sort of run rate and that have stable asset quality, get a very decent price to book. I'm pretty sure that you have more input than me in this particular thing, so I hope you do the best for the shareholders. Thank you for your time. Thank you for taking my question. Yes, yes, we'll do the right thing. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Anusha Raheja, from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead. Is it audible? Yes. Yeah, so, firstly, on the gold loan side, I think we had, particularly take us through, you know, how has been the walk-ins, of recently versus, it was six months, you know, trial and, the competition has also intensified. They would have also taken away some of your market share. So in that sense, how do we see growth in this background? Yeah, Anusha, what is the question? Yes. Walk-ins. Walk-ins. So, you know, we have a database of customers that were our customers, and walk-ins are also there. And, as more people get to know that we have resumed business as usual, so there's a flow of customers. So we are seeing a very healthy trend there, Anusha, and, our people are really motivated, and committed, you know, so to get back the market share and obviously, you know, the profitability and everything depends on that. So the trend is positive. Okay. And, the Stage 2 assets, 31-90 DPD, there has been a significant rise, you know, across all the loan segments, and, the levels are higher than what it was in Q1 as well. So what is causing, you know, such a significant rise? Okay. So in gold loan, I think because you know, we just started almost towards the end of the quarter, so you know, we wouldn't force customer to liquidate the loan and obviously they were also waiting for us. So if you see gold loan, typically because we are small customers, 50-60 thousand loan, they tend to pay towards you know, just before 90 days you know, to avoid option or threat of default liquidation. Then in the personal finance, they are lumpy businesses with you know, one of the loan basically not being paid or delayed by more than 30 days despite the number, and I think other businesses, the trend will be similar to the end of the 31 to 90 days of the last quarter. If you could just tell us what could be the blended credit? We had six percent, that became seven percent. And obviously there is an increase in the gold loan part of it, which is, you know, a big gold loan. And so there is a marginal, very, the six percent has increased to seven percent on the whole, and we are talking about stage with 30 and 90 days. Okay. And what could be, you know, blended credit costs that we can factor in for on the overall consolidated book? Uh- For FY 2025. Microfinance has moved up more than what we had expected. Other businesses remains more or less similar. So what we are talking about, 2% may become 2.5% on the whole. Okay. Any number to put up there, including this MFI, you know, credit cost, on consolidated book? Even I can say to you around 2% of the, you know, loan assets or a steady state business. Okay. And also on this digital loan- All segments of the business as you know. So gold are slightly higher, 2.4%, but in this we expect to go below 1%, you know, as we, as the business is fully rolled out properly. And the other trends are more or less low. So the business loans will remain around 3% in terms of... I mean, we may bring it down to 2.5 over a period of time. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah, and so can you take us through, you know, growth in across all segments? Like you said that in gold loans, we would see by March 2025 the growth will revise back and MFI is likely to see a consolidation. Some you know color on the growth for the home loans and digital loans and LAP loans, how do we see that segment growing in FY 2025 and in the medium term? Monu, is Monu alive? Monu? Hello. So, yeah. Uh- Okay, never mind. You go ahead, please. I think she's asking for the growth in home loan segment of the business. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we are seeing as a home finance as a whole, we're expecting about the volume growth about 17%-18% for this year. And all the segments should move in the same tandem. We can expect home loan about 8%, maybe a couple of percentage more, about 20% growth in home loan. And the other part of the business should be about 16%-18%. That's what we expect in the housing finance business. Other business that is already spoken. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Mr. Shikhar Mundra from Vivog Commercial Limited. Please go ahead. Hi. Just wanted more clarity on this exceptional item. So where were these AIF investments exactly made? And, what is the reason for them not being liquidated? AIF investment was made in June 2021, and it was to mature on first June 2024. So in the month of March. The circular of RBI came on nineteenth December, giving 30 days to either liquidate or make 100% provision for the same. We couldn't liquidate in the 30 days. But what happened that in the month of March, when we got into distribution, then those debentures that we got on our book were also delinquent because they're delinquent in the post promote, but they're not entirely. So that thing is what we sold to ARC. And you know, normally all the delinquent assets, the regulation is through ARC, which is. And basically, in the ARC, normally we also invest in the security receipt. So the underlying current being the same, what we have tried to be is that we be conservative and follow the regulation, not only in the letter, but also in spirit. While the asset, you know, has changed the form of instead of AIF, it has become security receipt, but underlying current remains the same. So, you know, we decided to make a full provision. When can we- One-time non-cash item. Sorry? This is one time exceptional provision that we are making, and this does not have any implication to your cash, profits or anything in between. So we get the provision. Can we expect the write backs from this? I think this question asked about maybe two to three years will take to realize value. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Kriti Tripathi from NVS Brokerage. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. So yeah, in continuation with the AIF question just mentioned, I wanted to know that how much was the amount invested by ourselves in the company, in the AIF? Apart from that, the initial amount and then now our share of profit and loss, what is the difference between that? So can you expand on that? So original amount was, I think, INR 900 crore or INR 1,000 crore, after which some repayment had happened. Okay. INR 900,000 crores. Okay. When we got the investment, this will be transferred. It was 675, but I think there was a write-down when the AIF took it. The AIF did their own valuations, and there's an option giving us well. So then, actually so what we hold from that AIF was INR 586.5 crores as of March, NBFC. So there were lots of transitions in this, so I'm giving you a broad estimate. Mm. That we started close to nine hundred, to a thousand, but now it's five eighty-six. Okay, so that's basically- There was some write-down, so both put together, yeah. Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Kamlesh Mittani from Investing Capital Services. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I had a couple of questions regarding the gold business. Firstly, I wanted to know that have we reduced any interest rate on gold loans recently? Additionally, wanted to understand how are the recent trends post the lifting of the RBI ban? And if you could just brief upon the strategy around how to scale up the gold business back to where it was as earlier. I'm sorry if I may have missed the strategy-related part. Thanks. So we have not resorted to cut-throat price competition to get the assets back. But we have a So there are various multiple schemes that we run. Like, suddenly you have a 9% or 10% interest, where it has to be a monthly interest income, and now that we are in a slightly lower NPV than the other schemes. So, you know, initial, we expect the sector to be more and more leading for products or that we have. But we are not resorting to any cut-throat price to get the assets back. Secondly, our strategy is very simple to focus on the customer. So we are not really... At this point in time, we don't see the need to be very aggressive or go out of way to, you know, focus on, you know, get the customers are coming back. And as their uploads mature and elsewhere, we are seeing a good fraction of customers, you know, getting back to us where they were earlier. Okay, okay. Like, any initial trends which you are seeing, like it's a very small period, but how has been the disbursement trends in October? It's very good, very positive. So in about a month, you know, just when we started, obviously it takes time to get back to the momentum. So our loan book there 10,000 has gone up to 12,000. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Next question is from Raghav Garg from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Just one very small question. In the standalone business, is there any overlap between the digital gold loan customers and, sorry, the digital loan customers and the gold loan customers? Which customers, sorry? Digital loan. Digital loan. Digital loan and gold loan customer overlap is very minimal. I would say maybe 10%, less than 10%. Okay. Okay. And another question is, so when I look at slide number 12, right, which has stage-wise updates, there the digital loan assets is about INR 6,500 crores, whereas on slide 18, the digital AUM, digital loan AUM is about INR 5,400 crores. So where is this difference, in which entity or, I'm just trying to reconcile these two numbers. Yeah, can you help? No, fifty-four hundred crores from the slide 11, where is sixty-five hundred crores? Anish. No, sir, on slide number 12, the number is I NR 6,500 crores, and on slide number 18, the number is I NR 5,400 crores. Just one minute. I NR 6,500 crores, where is the I NR 5,400 crores.? Hello? Hello. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. So, you know, there are some loans which are sourced by Samasta Microfinance, and they are booked with the parent company. So that is the difference. So the way, you know, the individual loans which are booked through Samasta, for, you know, micro loan, that is where I think there will be a recalculation which I'll tell you there. I think there are recalculation in there. Yeah, so if you go back, go to slide number 35. Yeah. Gold equity, which is last secured, which is originated by Samasta, but booked in NBFC. Understood. Okay, thanks. That, that's all from my side. Yeah, I think maybe from the next presentation, we'll make it more clear in terms of how we classify this. Okay. Thank you. Next question is from Hrishikesh from RoboCapital. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible? Yes, sir, please go ahead. Yes. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Firstly, on gold loan, so if I see, at peak, we were around INR 20-23 thousand crore loan book. Do we have any internal targets to get there again, and by when? No, we don't have any target as such, but we'll, you know, as a business grow, we'll get there in some time, not too, you know, it won't be too long. Okay, and how do you see the growth in our LAP book going ahead? So LAP book, you know, has two components. One are the old LAP book, which are on the larger ticket side. So, you know, that basically... obviously, that is stale book. So when you see the overall LAP book, we have a 1% growth, but the normal LAP book that we are continuing with, is a smaller ticket size, is growing heavily. I think Monu said that about 17%-18% is the trend there. Okay, so are we expecting this to grow by 17%-18% going ahead? So the overall reported LAP has the older LAP book, which is larger ticket, which we are restructuring, so what growth you see here will be lower, not so much, but maybe slightly lower. Okay. And just to come again on gold loan, what growth rate are we expecting going ahead? No, I think again, maybe I, everybody is very curious about this, but unfortunately, I'm not in a position to give any forward-looking guidance on this. Only thing is that we'll continue to grow at a steady pace, as our customers come back. And because we have a distribution network and base of customers, we do not think that it'll take too long to get back, you know, what our loan assets were before the ban. But still, I can't point or, you know, put a figure and say this is the time frame. What we have proved, and we want to make sure that customers are serviced well, no compromise in terms of compliance and on the risk management, and at whatever pace, we can grow the business, that should be healthy growth. That is more important for us. Got it. No problem. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from Shweta D., from Elara. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. So you actually partially answered my question, but nonetheless, so in light of regulatory forbearance and RBI calling out on interest rates, so do we see repricing of our assets on microfinance side, on the lower side? And alternatively, I think you answered this, on the gold loan side, are we going to stick to competitive rates because, we have seen slight drop in your yield? So in quest of growing the gold loan book, are we looking at, keeping the rates competitive on the gold loan front? Thank you. So on the first point of interest, we should see slight parting. Then we have implemented the risk-based pricing, and that is what actually, you know, the RBI is looking at. And we did not have any predatory pricing in any of our businesses. So the 35, 40, 45% rates are not for any of our businesses, so we are very conscious about it. And also, we have now a board approved policy for interest rate cap, you know, so that is about the high interest rate side. Then your second part of question is on the lower interest rates to be competitive. You know, as I said, that the customers when they come back, the early customers are more, you know, the flow will be in the lower price scheme. But there, the requirement, like, you know, the NBFC are more conservative and there's a much impact payment. So the yields may fall little bit, but as I said, that we are not getting into any cut for competition, so there won't be a dramatic impact, but yes, marginal tapering off will be there in this quarter, next quarter for sure. Okay. So just coming back to the MSME side, so I didn't imply usurious rates or something which you are not confirming with the RBI norms. All I meant was, are we looking at recalibration and interest rates further on our MSME books? We've already introduced, as Nirmal pointed out, the risk-based pricing is already introduced, so this is with the guidance with what RBI had asked us to do. So that's already in force as we speak. Sure. That helps. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from Navneet Bhaya, who's an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. I wanted some clarity on your security receipts portfolio. So, in your slide twenty-three, you've mentioned that your outstanding security receipts are about three thousand six hundred crores, against which you have a provision of six hundred and twelve crores. So, the three thousand remaining, is that also at risk? Why aren't we providing against those? So security receipts, accounting is done based on the accounting principle. So, there's a fair value, and based on that, we will make sure that, they are value. So this is a sensible thing, you know, just to make sure that, you know, RBI is, portfolio complies with the letter and spirit. But the other security receipts are good and, you know, in terms of, their, expectations, on the whole our portfolio, you know, we expect it to recover fully, and we don't see any need to, basically provide for it. But as Nirmal will give you more color on, the portfolio of security receipt. But we make sure that if there are any risks or any expectation of a loss, we provide for, but we don't expect any loss in the portfolio. Okay. So, of the three thousand six hundred crores, you've provided for five eighty-six crores. So we are saying that the remaining three thousand crores, we are not expecting any credit costs also to occur, in our P&L? INR 3,600 crore portfolio that you have, I think that will recover fully along with, you know, some interest or whatever we should accrue to the ultimate borrower. You know, that is what our expectation will be. Okay, understand. So, no further charges is what we expect on the P&L. Do I understand that correctly? Yes, you're right. Okay, fine. Thank you. That's all I wanted to check. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. That was the last question in queue. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Kapish Jain for any closing comments. Yeah, thank you very much. Thanks a lot, ladies and gentlemen, for joining our quarter two earnings call. For any further query, we are available. You can write to us at our investor relations email ID or reach out to us separately, and we'll be more than happy to clarify things, anything further from the results. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.