Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to IIFL Finance q one f y twenty six earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then 0 on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to the management. Thank you, and over to you. Thank you very much. I welcome everybody on the first quarter results earnings call for fiscal twenty twenty six. On this call, I'm joined by Mr. Nirmal Jayan, our Founder and Managing Director along with Mr. A. Venkatraman, the Joint Managing Director of the company. We also have the CEOs of two of our subsidiary companies, Mr. Munu Atharah, CEO of the IAC and Audience Alliance and Mr. Venkatesh, who is the CEO for IAC and Samartha. Myself Kavishyan, I am the CFO. And as we sit it forward, I would like to now request Nirmala to just take over and give an update on the broader macroeconomic situation, industry update and company strategy for this quarter and going forward. Thank you, Kapiti. Afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. So the macroeconomics backdrop remains broadly constructive. India continues to demonstrate strong growth fundamentals with state of inflation, including rural sentiment, increasing digitalization and normalization of credit. And for the MBSE sector, the growth on fee remains wide, supported by retail and by rising retail creative demand, digital inclusion, financial inclusion and the robust regulatory framework. However, the operating environment is not without its challenges. So asset quality, MSME lending has covered investors across the industry, especially in the unsecured and micro lab segment, reflecting regional volatility as well. Even in our portfolios, NPAs have edged up sequentially, but we have accepted swiftly by covering exposure to high risk segment, recalibrating our policies and deploying dedicated collection teams embedded in AI led early warning systems. On the global front, rising trade friction is basically the return of tariffs at all from The U. S. And some we are watching. While near term impact on our customer segment is likely limited, we remain vigilant given the second quarter effect on inflation, currency and export linked MSME. Yet on the whole, Q1 FY 'twenty six has been a quarter of revival and reassurance. Our boardroom business was 20 bounce back from last year's Embargo reaching an all time high in the year. MSME Secured Lending continues to be one of our core growth engines and we are exiting the riskier segment. We also strengthened our governance and risk architecture. We have bolstered our leadership team and doubled down on satellite execution and innovation. We remain focused on building a high quality compliant retail loan franchise, generating targets and returns in the country and fulfilling the mission of financial inclusion. With this, now I hand it over to our CFO, Patrice Dhevagil to walk you through the detailed financials. Yes. Thank you very much, Bilmal. To take this forward and give you a more detailed update on the quarterly numbers, for the quarter at a consolidated level, IFS Finance reported profit after tax before controlling interest of INR $2.74 crore. This is running in our 9% up quarter on quarter and 19% down on a Y o Y basis. We recorded a pre provision operating profit of INR $8.36 crore, it's again up 28 quarter on quarter and 31% is down Y o Y. As you all are aware of last year, were also hit by the gold embargo, which is causing this negative shift. However, the momentum is on the upward side when you're comparing on a quarterly basis. For the quarter, the consolidated loan AUM grew by 21% and was up 7% quarter on quarter, as we alluded to around $83,008.89. As Nirmal mentioned, this is led by gold, which has already surpassed the past embargo limit. And we were up around 30% quarter on quarter in the gold AUM and on our 85% of Y o Y to 27,274. If I further dissect the AUM, the retail segment comprises of 38% of the overall AUM, which is like home loan, gold, MSME and micro finance, they both they all aggregate an upward movement of 21% Y o Y and 7% quarter on quarter. Our gross NPA is in line with our guidance and stands at around 2.3%. In a large balance sheet, it could be margin shift a few basis points, but it's largely in line with our guidance of 2.3%. And our net NPL stands at around 1.1%. And then when compared to same time last year, the margin is up around 10 basis points. The company maintains a very cautious stance on the MSM and MFI segment, and we continue to keep our focus on the recovery connection. And as things get better, we'd like to see how we can further build up the portfolio here. We have been implementing and we build our credit on the ECL model and under the Ag Impact provision, the coverage on this overall portfolio stands around 91%. The assigned loan book currently stands at around $15,061 which is up 3% Y o Y and more importantly up 18% quarter on quarter. Besides this, the core lending book assets also moved up to 11,005 and 65, up 21% Y o Y and 9% quarter on quarter. Our quarterly average cost of borrowing increased by 34 basis points on a Y o Y basis and very marginally of around four basis points to 9.45 on a quarter on quarter basis. We've been maintaining good and healthy liquidity. If I give you an update, during the quarter, we raised around INR1408 crores of borrowings through term loans, bonds and commercial paper. And we with the gradually seasoning of the portfolio, we could also enhance our direct assignment transactions like we have done historically across banks and including the Role loan portfolio to around INR4.89 crores this particular quarter compared to INR2400 crores last quarter. Our cash and cash equivalent stands at around INR7367 crores, adequate to not just meet our short term liabilities, but also support our growth momentum as we end the target for these particular asset classes. We are focused on our AUM across buckets and the net gearing stands at around 3.4x. On an annualized basis, the ROE stands at around 7.6% and its ROA is around 1.6%. Our basic earning portion for the quarter stands around 5.5%. We are adequately capitalized with the consolidated capital adequacy spending around 28.4%, much higher than the minimum threshold of 15%. And individual companies' capital adequacy spent around 18.3% for the MBSE, 47.4% for HSBC and 28.4% so much for Microfinance. In line with our endeavor to enhance our standing on the Board, both from a governance and supervision perspective, we we are pleased to have Mr. V. P. Kanungo as one of our Board members in the asset finance. As you would all know, he was a former RBI Deputy Governor. We also have Mr. M. V. Banu Mathi, who was the former income tax DG on the Board of our housing finance company, Apple Housing. There has also been very meaningful changes on the management side to kick start on the critical initiatives like AI innovation. With this, I come to the end of the entire presentation and open the floor for q and a. Over you. Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets when asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of from Mahindra Manualife Mutual Funds. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Sir, just wanted to understand the changes that are happening on the asset quality side in this quarter. So we've seen that across all segments other than gold and capital markets, so most of the segments, both stage one, stage two, stage three, they have all seen degradation. So can you explain us segment by segment, what are the key figures that have happened on asset quality? Commensurately, has been the impact for credit cost in this quarter? And how do you see the credit cost going up ahead? The primary problem is microfinance and then MSME, there was unsecured in the micro lab, the small ticket lab. So these are the issues that we have. And in Home Loan, we had exposure to the other business in public scheme, where the project is halted, but with a small exposure. But other than that, it's not okay. So if you really look at gold loan, which is like almost one third of our business and will grow even faster. And then the home loan, the core home loan product comes to, I mean, it's very small marginal business, but not much. It's 1.14%, 1.31% now. And what we are seeing now is that even other segments, particularly the MSME and wider segments also things are I mean, the industry wide trends are getting better. Hello. Okay. Mr. On the unsecured NFME product is still largely 4,000 crores book and even the secured NFME is a subsidization program. Over here, how do we see the trends going ahead? Or what sort of provision can come from this segment? So if you look at the overall portfolio, then So the management line is not clearly audible, sir. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, sir. Better now. Yeah. So 38 is home loan where I mean, there's a small 500 crore portfolio out of which 65% is paid, but that's where there is a stress. But other than that, that portfolio is doing okay. GOLDOS 13% is not a problem. MSME sector on what we are seeing has come down because that micro lap, which is also microkerage customers in the cross sell or a very small segment of customers that we are discontinuing, the new disbursements are not taking place. But there the other the rest of the portfolio is okay. And microfinance, which is about 1011% now, I mean that's also stabilizing across the industry. So these are the so I think going forward, I mean this part of we had a total loan loss provisions of INR500 crores on a consolidated basis, which is a little higher than what our guidance or expectations were last quarter. So we were talking about the guidance of I think 2.5% to 2.7%, but we might end up if you see the first quarter trend hopefully, even if it be a conservative, we are on 3.5 so. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shivrantu Mishra from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead. Hi. So three questions. The first one is regarding the gold loan. What is the onboarding LTV that we have on the gold loan right now? Second is in terms of housing finance, is the CLSS two acting as a demand driver or it is too tedious in terms of operational challenges? Third is around securitization in IFL, Samasta. It's been coming off. So are we facing issues in securitization or, you know, people asking for more cash collaterals? Any changes in covenants, especially in IFL Samastra from our raw material providers? Thanks. So basically, LTV in gold loan is very supportive product. So we incentivize our customers to take a lower LTV and get benefit of lower rate of interest also. The yield has slightly improved in this quarter. If you see the first slide, which is slide, I think two, the yield is 17.6% when we restarted, was 17.8% and is now 18.2 And our LTV on a portfolio level is 66, but at the time of giving roll is around 70%, 75%, then there are customers who can come and revise or can do the top of roll versus they are doing. But still on the portfolio level, we are around 66% right now. And secondly, know, from a start, because see the developments are slow. So the new loans are also the portfolio is not building up at this stage. But in Q1, still right, it's operationally cumbersome. But as last time also, did pretty well on that. We've already given subsidy to 1,600 people, which we have done. So I think we've got the hang of it. It took us a while, but we're pretty confident that this will act as a very good demand engine for us going forward. So we've understood the nuances of it, and we've already got subsidy for 1,600 people. And with time, the government is pretty swift. Once you upload everything, the subsidy is coming pretty promptly. Right. And this salary formal that we do in home loans, these are from cat a companies, cat b companies, cat c companies. What kind of salary levels, income levels are we speaking about? Yeah. Yeah. So, typically, this former salary for home loans is typically in very decent companies as a market super category companies, but B or C companies where people are in the boundary or in the hierarchy of the occupation they are in. But these are absolutely in B or C category of employees' company. And average incomes of those customers? Now if you talk about the metros and other places, the average household income will be upwards of INR 50,000. About about 6 lakh rupees per annum. So it will be in the range of about 6 lakh rupees. Yeah. Understood. And a foyer at the point of origination? The DVR at the point of origination is below 50%. Right. Right. I'll come back in with you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anusha Raja from the. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. Actually, you said that for the purpose, can you anticipate in current cost of 3.5%? So that's. Do you anticipate that going ahead to the next two quarters, the asset quality or the NPAs will continue to be on a higher side? Sir, your voice was not completely there. We have 3.5 something that you mentioned. Can you repeat your question? I think that we are anticipating credit cost of closer to around 3.5% for the current fiscal. So how do we anticipate for the next two quarters, the MSME and on the microfinance, the NPAs will remain and the slippage will remain on a higher side? No. I'm saying that if you look at the first quarter's trend, which to our mind is a highly elevated cost, then let's say it goes to 3.5%. But we believe that things will get better, much better in the second part of the most of the second half of the year. And we should be able to end the year at a lower and not 3.5. So sorry, I just want to correct it. I'm saying going by first quarter 10%, if you just work on those numbers, then it goes up there. But hopefully, things will be as bad throughout the year. So the first quarter, because there was a sudden unexpected much hit of the microfinance also and SME because the trend suddenly for a good Kadarka and some of the states has worsened. But if you really look at it, then in the last few weeks, RBI has got more accommodative stance, liquidity has eased and there's an impetus to growth and this the impact will come or will be felt by the industry and the SME, maybe a little bit after a lag. So I believe that things will get much better from here in the second half. But as things stand, probably the first quarter has been little much worse than what we expected in terms of credit cost and primarily for MSM and Microfinance. Okay. And sir, on the AUM growth side, if you can just give some color on the gold loans, are seeing a strong growth coming in there. On the home loans, I think the growth is slightly sanguine. But on each of the segments, if you can just give some color, how do we anticipate AUM growth for the full year and some color on each of the segments as well? So of the year. Yes, otherwise, think maybe 15 to 18 growth is what should be very equal. And sir, lastly and sir, lastly, I think on q on q basis, we have been seeing a dip on the margins in the spread side. So was it purely because of the fact that there could have been interest rate reversals on the on the NPE accounts or was it something additional related to margin? Yes. So primarily, the interest reversal on whenever you see the higher elevated NPAs and the Any and what is the broader call that we expect margins for the full year, how do you anticipate that number moving? So there were just reverse trends, primarily the SMEs and microfinance. But I think that just all these sectors like all these segments of the business are getting better and interest reversals should also reduce and in the second half we will be better, but things will start getting better from now. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead. Mister are you there? Hello. Am I audible? Yes. Yes. Okay, okay. Thank you very much for the opportunity. So just first of all, I just wanted to understand now given your credit cost outlook is now 3.5%. So what sort of ROE we are looking at for this year? I think we were targeting closer to 3% as per our previous call. Now given higher credit costs, what sort of revised outlook we should look at? So we were looking at 3.5% ROA or 3%, close to 3% ROA, that's what we mentioned in the last call. So the credit cost might somewhere from 2.5, 2.7 level, if it goes up to 3%, And as the volumes grow continues to grow the business, we should see some benefit in cost to income ratio also. So I mean at this point in time, it's too early to change the guidance or expectation on ROA, but we have worked how since progressing here. So we still maintain 3% kind of ROA, I mean, do you want to maintain that? Yes, yes, we should maintain that. Okay, understood. And in terms of overall growth, I think you mentioned 15% to 18% on the AUM growth we are looking at on a console level, right? Yes. And 15% to 18% was for home loan? Yes. And the three problem areas that you mentioned about MFI, MSME and small ticket lapse, so what percentage of our book currently it falls? So if you look at the businesses that we have actually on Slide five is yours. So MSME that we discontinued this unsecured business is 2.4% and the last is 3.1% of total book. So rather, they are about 5%. Microfinance is 10%. But you know Microfinance, think because with the I think the policy support, RBA support, credit guarantee or whatever, the growth I mean, we are not discounting their business. The business de grew in the first quarter. But I think in the next three quarters, it will have some growth areas, which will be around 10% for the full year. Okay. Okay. I got it. And now that RJ has allowed us to open new branches, so any branch expansion plan you have laid out for us? As of now, the existing branches still are below their full capacity. So I mean first we wanted to focus on the existing branches in this quarter. And once we see that they are stable in terms of the profitability, they get back to the level, we expect them to be at every time we can take up the expenses. Sure. And just one last final thing, now that I mean this we had this quarter some impact of guardrail also, I mean that was got that got implemented from April. So now on an absolute basis, one should look at quarter on quarter provisioning declining. Is that a trend that one should look at going forward? Yes. Actually, see there are some unexpected things that keep happening, even what we have seen is the ups and downs. So now that things are getting stabilized in microfinance, which is one big problem area I the first quarter proceeds should decline. I expect second half is much better because seasonally that's where it really kicks off and the interest rate trend seems to be down, the benefit will come after some time, maybe after a few months. So free sale of things. But yes, partner, we should see declining there. Fair enough. That got a that a good sense. That's it from my side all the way, mister. Thank you so much. Thank you, Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Nico Asset Management. Please go ahead. I have questions on your asset quality. So for the for your exposure to the the beneficiary hold on. What do you call it? The Andra b BLC. In terms of the NPL, how will you guys manage it? And also, would would you guys get any kind of any resolution with, say, the government? Yeah. Hi, sir. So I'll just this beneficiary led construction, first of all, just to give you a perspective, the total AUM is about INR 500 crores. At the loan book level it's about INR400 crores. And so it's a very small amount in terms of the total AUM at a level also or at the level of the group as well. So it's a very mild exposure. And we are only if you will see, we have already been able to, like, have about 20% of our customers prepaid the loan, and already whatever hit we have to take, And 65% of the customers are are are below 30 dbt. So they're anyways paying, and 19% have already gone to the NPA. So we've already taken the majority of the hit what we had to. The rest of the people are paying. This was a seven year product. Over two years have already gone by. So I don't see any major impact of this. And just now we in on the ground also, we see things getting back on track in terms of the overall development of these projects. So we should see things better from here. Okay. Then there are two segments that you guys discontinue, right? So there's no disbursement for this quarter. So in terms of the exposure, there's existing, do we expect to see this exposure eventually becoming NPL? No, not. So our correction, infrastructure and the apparatus is remaining. So I don't think that just because we are discontinuing to revenue more NPAs in this. But these are the okay, I'll tell you what is that because we did a lot of analysis of this. So on the face of it, have a higher yield, which should take care of the risk. But they also have higher operating costs and then they basically are hugely RevPAR in the same thing. And they are very volatile because these are the one on the payroll, they are vulnerable not resilient. So the total portfolio of our own broader loan portfolio is about 5% of the industry. And what we have done is that actually we have increased our cost for collection in this. So we have our care recruitment team, which is focused on collection of these discontinued businesses. So the year end trend will not change because of discontinuity. But already we are stressed that we deal with and we'll recover like yours as we can. Okay. One more question on my end, you don't mind. So in terms of the NPL currently at 2.3%, what are we expecting for the next two to three quarters? We want to keep GNC at less than 2% on the whole. So our target will be to get there in the last Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Suraj Das from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Am I audible? Yes. Yeah. I think, sir, most of the question have been answered. Just one question. In terms of this short term lab, I mean, the micro ticket lab, is the problem any geography specific, or you are seeing this pain across the states, I mean, in respect to the geography? So that's just one question from me. So first, typically, we've seen more stress in Andhra Pradesh as one bigger piece, which we saw. And second was the the upcountry in Maharashtra. But we had larger exposure in Andhra Pradesh, so AP has been a bit of a stressful. But it would stay top in state should be Andhra Pradesh and then Maharashtra. The rest of Maharashtra is other than Munday, outside Munday, smaller cities of Maharashtra. Okay. Sure. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Navneet, who is an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. My question is, I believe you've surpassed your AUM, which was there prior to the RBI embargo. So December 24 is the reference December 23 is the reference point I'm taking. However, there are some your pre operating profit pre provision operating profit is much lower. I believe your other income before the embargo used to be in the range of INR50 odd crores per quarter, which is now in single digit crores and your operating expenses have also gone up a bit. So if you can just talk us through this? Yes, you're right. So there are two regions for this, two regions for this. As the portfolio in the initial first of two quarters, we built at a slightly lower rate of interest. Last year also, we gave salary increments as normal to the when the Golar Imago period, we had grown that at a fairly good pace and that has come up across the industry. So that has contributed significantly to lower profit. So sir, if you can talk a little bit about your other income, it's in single digit crores per quarter right now and it was averaging 56,000 and yeah, the consolidated. Yes. In this quarter, reported consolidated, you've reported 6.5 crores of other income in this quarter, and it's been ranging in this, you know, The line below total revenue from operations, 6.5 crores in this quarter, INR 3.1 crores in the March, INR 12 crores in the June. This number used to be in the INR 50 crores, 60 crores and maybe even 90 crores range prior to the embargo. So I was wondering what since you've already surpassed the AUM, what is the difference? No. So one is that because the insurance companies which we cross sell used to give us marketing. Yes. Hello. Yeah. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes sir, we can hear you. Yes. So I think the you know, the fee structure from the insurance company has been negotiated separately. So there are certain things which they used to support by their marketing support, which is lower income, but now the company's part of. Okay. So going forward, this will be the new normal? We'll earn lesser other than Yes, I would say, Radek, on this all low, sometimes when there are certain capital gains or certain IPO gains that comes by the end of the year. But yes, what you're saying is right that this is in a new normal low. Understood. But what will happen is that the fee and the commission income what you see above will grow faster, because that is 12.6 percent even in a flat quarter of Q1. So a part of income will get reflected there. So you see the two c lines above the previous commission income from office and the other. But no, below that, it's fee income. Other commission other, it's 94.9. That's right. So, it was a some part of this income will get reflected there. Understood. Okay. That's all I want to understand. That has gone up significant. I mean, there has gone up in the Q1 over Q4 also. Understood. Okay. Right. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhishek from HSBC. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, Nevan. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Hi. So my first question is gold loans. Now we've surpassed the levels we were at when the bank came into effect. From here, would the growth normalize? Or would you still continue to see this kind of Q o Q growth? How are you thinking about the business now? And when does it normalize, if not this quarter, maybe next quarter or by year end? I think growth should continue. And actually, there's a catching up. So if you really look at our disbursements per month, then they are not significantly higher pricing. At least in next two, three quarters, we should see the growth momentum continuing, I think. Okay. Because I think this kind of growth, so disbursement requirement in gold will be much higher than the net book growth, which means that you're borrowing more and it's also pressurizing your cost, cost of funds. So is it I mean, why continue to grow so far? Because No. See, okay, I'll just let me know correctly. First of all, I think we'll do co lending and direct assignment at a faster pace. And therefore, I don't see that the cost of funds will start easing now, hopefully, because it's given that this is having a handle these volumes and we should be. Now the industry wide, if you see that there has been a growth in this business, stronger growth in bank last year and NBFCs also, so we are just trying to catch up, that is partly. If we grow it faster, okay, as we maintain the growth momentum because in the market, even if there was slightly higher interest cost as we had seen last quarter, that was hydrophilic. I'll come back to Liav and C on this, But that is more than made up by operating cost leverage advantage as you can, because our operating cost fixed cost will not go up with the same proportion and plus the yield here is 18% is a fairly good yield to take care of today. Then coming back to cost of funds, last year we were I mean last quarter, we increased slightly higher cost of funds because the beginning of the quarter, we believe we right. It's only towards the end of the quarter that we saw the new warranty policy, we are stepping into ease of liquidity, bringing down interest rate in Kerala. And that in fact we have seen in this quarter when we are negotiating with banks. But on the cost of fund, probably we'll see still after a line of a quarter. But I think liquidity has eased and we don't see any big difficulty maintaining the pace of growth by borrowing or more than borrowing by DA and Co lending. Okay. The second question is actually to Venkatesh on MFI. So can you give some sense on how much was the disbursement in 1Q and where do you see disbursements next quarter, quarter after? And similarly, in terms of credit cost, is there any write back or utilization of some contingency buffer or anything? Or is this like a clean credit cost? And how do you see that for the next two, three quarters? When do we start seeing a sharper improvement in that number? Abhishek, our disbursement in the first quarter would be around INR 1,300 crores. And our provisioning remained the same, what we it continues to be the same from what we were provisioning around in the quarter four. And going forward, how do you see disbursements from this quarter onwards? I mean, you look at most of the collection things are almost settling down in barring I mean, see, again, if it's been raining in some pockets, so slight disturbances are there, but we hopefully that disposals will pick up post this settlement. Normally towards this festival season, we have the biggest jump. And predominantly if you look at microfinance has been the fact, it's always been the second half of the year's game actually. Most of the disbursements happen now. So, we have estimated business for this coming next quarter or is the base in the going rate? Yes, we are looking, if it is around that INR1300 crores in the first quarter, it should hover around that INR1800 crores to INR2000 crores in the second quarter and it should pick up from there onwards. Okay, great. And what about credit cost? So how do you see that in 2Q and then 3Q? What kind of improvement do you also when do you expect it to normalize? See, I mean, we have always given that the COVID credit cost has slightly moved up. For the cost, credit cost for the full year will be at around 67% kind of a thing. Okay. For the full year? Yeah. Okay. So I think this quarter, you're at 8% annualized. Then it should normalize pretty quickly from here. Yeah. Okay. Third question is actually Yeah. No. Thanks, thanks. That's clear. The third question is from your Slide 20. So I think what you have given is the MSME secured loan breakup. If I look at MicroLab in Home Finance and I look at the part in Samasar, both of them have very similar average ticket size and almost similar yields. But if you see the NPA, they are far apart. In Samastra, it's 3.5% in Microlab Home Finance, it's 15%. So is there any fundamental difference in those two portfolios or customer profile difference or what makes the asset quality experience so different? And the book size is also similar, right, roughly 20% each. Yes, that's the question. So I think Abhishek, is some of the types customers and the Micronaut is cross sell. So actually, the Micronaut has been uproaching new customers from the customers who have track record in the microfinance business whereas yes, so Microlab is a I mean the Microsoft is a cross sell customer, they are the customer already in the portfolio and they get a different loan. And when we look at Microlab, then these are new customers. These are basically customers who based on their track record, based on their pre underwriting, we bit are tracking. So what has happened is that where a customer has already a microfinance low, has a good track record and our connection people, our base course are already catching them, then, I mean, it's a smaller portfolio, but that's why we have done better. Okay. But both are secured. Right? Both are secured. So Both are secured Okay. By So when you buy property or Yes, these are secured, but these are small value properties. So repurchasing them, selling them is a difference can happen and ultimately, they reduce your losses. But if they are impacted by the cash flows, then obviously, you recognize them as NPA. But they are all secured by residential or commercial company. Got it. Okay okay. Thank you. Thank you. Those are my questions and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Nikko Asset Management. Please go ahead. Can I clarify on credit cost? I can't hear clearly what is the expectation for full year. As we I think we've been discussing with the credit cost will moderate from the first quarter level. So I think the full year, we were expecting 2.5%, 2.7%, but might end up around 3% at this point. That's not in the best estimate at this point in time. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of from. Please go ahead. Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Just just two questions. I don't know if we covered earlier. I joined a little late. Firstly, this micro lab portfolio that we have in our housing finance subsidiary, we should be able to leverage services rate for this MicroLab portfolio. Again, I understand maybe Yes. Much. Yes. So, Mohan sir, I was trying to understand if you can leverage RTC for this MicroLab portfolio and also I mean is the quality of collateral and the size of the loan good enough to really leverage RTC and try for recoveries. That was my first question. The second question is to remember, just trying to understand what happened in gold loans in this quarter, very, very strong growth. So compliments to you could have. But what I'm trying to understand is, I mean, usually the gold loan growth that one usually targets in a year has come in the first quarter itself. And we are seeing very, very strong growth in gold notes in this quarter across the industry. So in all these, what really happened in this quarter, which led to such a high spot in gold notes? Okay. So if you notice Microfinance, NBFC Microfinance loan portfolio has gone down from something like INR 430,000 crores to INR 350,000 crores. That is the reason for the growth to be strong across the industry. Abhijit, answering you the question of the collateral and the sufficiency execution, these are collateral very much sufficiency is executable, and which we have started doing it expeditiously now. So in that way, they are pretty secure, and we have given it against the residential housing only. And so every because of business which we have discontinued, so the is also dropping quarter on quarter. So we should be able to handle this in the subsequent quarter. Thank you. Thanks. That's all from my side, and I wish you and your team everything. Thank you. Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management. Hello. Yes, hi sir. Okay. We can speak on that. Okay. So the next question is from the line of from Prosperity Wealth Management. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you for taking my question. So my question is on the unsecured and SME part. So in previous call, you mentioned those come under insurance scheme. So is there any possibility of reversal in coming quarters? Yes. So in the insurance scheme, our portfolio, I think from October 1, they started getting covered. So this will be the prior note, which has become bad one. Two, yes, there is a recovery possible and some recovery will happen. But way this scheme works, our main interest scheme, you don't get the first 3% of loss and you get 75%. So this year you get 75%, minus 3% of the overall portfolio. So you get only part reversal, but yes, for the loans that are covered, that will happen. But as I said that I think after we started getting covered about six, nine months ago. So the loans that have been made of the under cover. Okay. Okay. Understood. And on your gold portfolio, you mentioned your Q1 growth momentum will continue for upcoming quarters. So how long is this going to continue? Like, since you have reached, I think, 47 tonnage, is it going to continue till your peak 60? Or is it like So as of now, it looks good to continue. I mean, as I said, there are several factors working for it. So maybe at the next one or two quarters we see movement and very different forecast development. Okay sir, thank you very much. Thank you. As there are no further questions from participants, I now hand the conference over to management for the closing comments. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for your time on the call today. With this, we come to the end of our quarter one earnings call. However, for any further questions, you can always reach out to our investor relations team, and we'll be happy to assist and provide you any further clarification on our results and numbers. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.