Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the IIFL Finance Limited Q1 FY 2027 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference call over to the management for the opening remarks. Thank you, over to you. Good evening, everyone. I welcome you all in the IIFL Finance investor conference presentation call. My name is Vikas Jain, CFO, IIFL Finance. We have today Mr. Nirmal Jain, MD CEO, IIFL Finance, Mr. Girish, who is CEO of IIFL Home Finance, and Mr. Venkatesh N, who is the CEO of IIFL Samasta Microfinance. I will hand over to Mr. Nirmal Jain for macro and strategic overview for the quarter. Thank you, Vikas. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. On the macro backdrop, the West Asia situation has reignited over the last two weeks after the June ceasefire framework, keeping crude and shipping volatile. RBI held the repo rate at 5.5% in June with a neutral stance. It trimmed FY 2027 growth outlook to 6.6% and nudging inflation up to 5.1% on account of geopolitical and external pressures. However, domestic credit demand, particularly in retail and MSME, has remained structurally resilient regardless. Coming to our main core business, gold prices, despite corrections, have been elevated through this period of uncertainty. While they have supported our growth, which has been credit-led growth as well. We are equally mindful that a sharp correction is a real tail risk in this environment. We are therefore consciously focused on maintaining loan to value discipline and collection. Turning to performance. This quarter, our return on equity has realized it is close to 20%, 19.5%. Return on asset is 3.1%. On a book that is nearly 90% secured, our AUM has crossed INR 1.15 lakh crore, is up 38% on a year-on-year basis. Our gold loan has remained our primary engine. As I said, we are managing growth deliberately. Our home finance and microfinance businesses typically have a first quarter comparatively slower. Both these businesses are structurally on track. We expect the trajectory to strengthen through the rest of the year. Our co-lending continues to scale a bit slower than our plan in the first quarter, but now with 15 active bank partners, we expect it to gather momentum. Our AI-led operating model is moving from pilot to measurable impact across collection, fraud detection, frontline of productivity and so on. The board has approved an enabling resolution for fresh equity, which is subject to shareholders' approval in day-after-tomorrow's AGM, which will give us flexibility to raise capital during the year and when needed. In summary, this was a quarter where our profitability and operations are back to their natural levels. From here on, we expect organic growth to continue. AI and operating leverage to support the profitability acceleration in the near future. With this, I will hand over to Vikas for the detailed numbers. Thank you. Thank you, sir. To start with the financial numbers for the quarter. For the quarter, IIFL Finance profit after tax before non-controlling interest was INR 713 crore and up by 14% on quarter-on-quarter basis. We recorded pre-provision operating profit of INR 2,252 crore, up by 50% YOY basis and 7% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. For the quarter, consolidated loan AUM grew by a healthy 38% YOY and was up 7% on quarter-on-quarter basis at INR 1,15,523 crore. Driven by gold loans close to around INR 58,406 crore. Further dissecting the AUM, our core product loan AUM comprising home loan, gold loans, MSME loans and microfinance up by 43% YOY and was up 8% quarter-on-quarter basis to INR 1,11,770 crore. This segment now comprises 96.7% of our overall AUM mix. On the asset quality side, our gross NPA stood at 1.6% and net NPA stood at 0.8%, both which are stable and slightly up by nine basis points from the quarter-on-quarter basis. The company maintains a cautious stance on unsecured MSME and MFI segment focused on recovery and collections. Happy to inform that provision coverage ratios on NPA stands at 94%. The assigned loan book stands at INR 26,118 crore, up by 73% on YOY basis and up by 10% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Besides this, there are co-lending assets of INR 14,647 crore, which is up by 27% and 2% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Quarterly average cost of borrowing has decreased by three basis point on a quarter-on-quarter to 9.13% and 33 basis point on a YOY basis. A brief update on liquidity. During the quarter, we have raised INR 17,183 crore through term loans, bonds, commercial paper, and INR 5,283 crore was raised through direct assignment on loans. Our cash and cash equivalent and committed credit lines from the banks and institutions is INR 7,148 crore, are adequate to meet not only the near-term liability but also to fund our growth momentum. We have a positive ALM whereby inflows covers or exceeds our expected outflow across all buckets and net gearing is at 4.0x. Our ROE for the quarter stood at 19.5% and while ROA stood at 3.1%. Basic earnings per share for the quarter is INR 15.9 per share. As of June 26, our capital adequacy ratio for NBFC is 17.1%, HFC 14.7%, and for Samasta 24.9%, which is well above minimum threshold of around 15% reflective of our successful off-book model, which we have implemented. In the quarter, Moody's has assigned us Ba3 issuer rating and (P)Ba3 GMTN program rating to the IIFL Finance outlook stable. We have raised $500 million through social bond issuances proceeds which are directed to income-generating loans for women, low-income, and rural, semi-urban borrowers. CRISIL ESG Rating has assigned an ESG rating of CRISIL ESG 66 and core ESG rating of CRISIL Core ESG 69 to the company. With this, I come to an end and now we are open for Q&A. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star one on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, to register, please press star and one. Your first question comes from the line of Pavan Kumar with Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on really good set of numbers. Thank you. Two questions. At the current rate of growth, when will you be required to go for equity raise, considering CET1 is already at 12.24% in the standalone entity? Because the gold loans, I understand the risk rates are 125%, I know you have alluded to reduction in the gold loan growth rate. Even then we are very close to the regulatory minimum. That's one question. Second question, in the IIFL Home Finance entity, can you give us the disbursement separately for home finance and the LAP? And do we think that, from the Q1 is the bottom for the disbursements and the ALM growth going forward, the housing finance growth and their LAP growth will pick up. What is the kind of expectation there for FY 2027? Thank you, sir. Thanks, Pavan. Gold industry growth has slowed down in this quarter, but we are still growing maybe faster than industry. I won't have the data, but that's what I think so. About capital, I think we need to fix the capital adequacy issue in the parent company. This is something that's why we are taking shareholders approval on, in this meeting, which is day after tomorrow. We have multiple options. Basically, we can raise QIP or we can do a secondary sale of subsidiary companies. We are also looking at a strategic divestment partly or listing of microfinance. We can raise equity through subsidiary companies. Co-lending is gathering momentum now. That will also ease the pressure this quarter. We can raise subordinate debt and perpetual debt also, which we have raised quarter before. That will also help us. We are very conscious of the capital adequacy, which in the parent company is kind of at the edge. We are like, we want to fix it. All these options are open, and we want to keep all the options open so that at appropriate time. Once we have shareholders approval, it's valid for a full year. At appropriate time, we can make sure that the capital adequacy for this business is properly maintained. About gold finance, Girish will give you the disbursement data. I think there's strong pickup in the disbursement, but let Girish give you the data. Sir, before Girish gives this, just one clarification, because share sale, I mean, stake sale in the subsidiaries takes time, right? The due diligence, everything will take some time. Even if you raise Tier 2 debt, again, AT2 debt, that will be Tier 2, right? It won't be counted towards Tier 1. The way- No. Perpetual is counted towards Tier 1 subject to certain numbers. The perpetual debt is counted as Tier 1 up to 50% of the equity. Okay. I think, maybe there's some such restriction on the total quantum, it is counted as Tier 1 and subordinate is counted as Tier 2. We have been working on this though. Okay. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, it can happen very quickly. Got it. Your preference is towards not raising that equity in the immediate term. No, we can raise equity also, we are open. It all depends on the valuations in the market. Yeah. We don't want to be in a desperate situation, so we are trying to work on everything, including co-lending, perpetual and subordinate debt in this quarter. Understood. Yes. Something which is equity, we are open to raising equity also. I mean, it's not that we don't want to raise, but we want to raise At some reasonable valuations. Got it, sir. Thank you. Under home loans quarter one. If you look at last few quarters, I think we registered high disbursement growth. Sequentially, we have grown disbursement by 39%, and this is high compared to last few quarters. Even we could see good growth on the AUM, which is 4% sequential and book growth is 7%. This trend will continue. Generally, in housing loan industry, quarter one is soft and from quarter two it picks up. We expect that this momentum to continue and we will be able to further improve on it. Not just this, we have also improved our onboarding team. In last two quarters we have increased about 68- 70 [audio distortion] on the overall book. This is incremental. Sir, the 39% growth is between home loan and LAP together, right? In IIFL Home Finance. Yes. This is overall sequential growth in disbursement is 39% overall. Yeah, both put together. Both put together. Home loans are about 80% of the portfolio, and our LAP is about 18% or 18%-19%, I don't think. Sir, can we say that, like this quarter, going forward, the growth will be much faster, particularly home loans, which has grown only 3% quarter-on-quarter. This is sequential. If you look at the overall year, we are looking at growth of about 17%-18% on book and AUM. Disbursement growth will be over 30%. Got it, sir. Is that the kind of growth estimate for the full year also 17%-18%? It's for the full year. This is for the full year. Full year, the book growth- No, I mean for FY 2027, I mean, for the full year FY 2027. For FY 2027, yes. Okay, sure sir. Thank you so much, sir. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Chirag Singhal with First Water Fund. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on good set of numbers. My first question is on the target that you have given in slide 20. In FY 2027, the credit cost is expected to be 1.5%-1.7%, which is sharply dropping in the next two years. Which segment do you see will be contributing to this higher credit cost in the current year? Because microfinance, as I can see, a lot of it's turned in favor of the industry and even the gold loans and all are not witnessing any higher provisioning. Just trying to understand the higher credit cost for this year and what will lead towards the decline in the next two years. This year is our housing finance because there is a small portfolio of micro LAP that is there. If you really look at our housing finance GNPA, they are much higher than the peers and that is what will be fixed in next two years. What is the outstanding micro LAP book as of Q1 end? The outstanding of micro LAP is about INR 440 crore. INR 440 crore. INR 440 crore. Are there any other GNPs? GNP is about 2.6%. This is a problem book. Okay. It's not significant, but it is just a residual, so it will have cleanup in this year. Got it. Second question is just continuing the previous participant's point on the fundraise. You are looking at taking in microfinance subsidiary. What is the multiple that you would be looking at bare minimum if you want to exit Samasta? And would it be like a partial stake sale or you are planning to exit microfinance completely? No, we can do partial stake sale also now the business has recovered this year, but it's very difficult to give any guidance on this because it depends on the negotiation deals and this. The environment has improved now and therefore it may be a time to raise the capital there. Also with our parent company, the subsidiaries are valued at cost. That basically is a disadvantage when we compute the capital adequacy for the parent. Even if we demerge, then also the capital adequacy gets relieved. We are looking at various options. As I said in the previous question, that we are very conscious of this and we want to make sure that this is addressed properly. Yeah, because diluting at the current valuations would be your last option that you would be looking at, right? Yeah. I think we can. Why would you dilute? with the marginal, we can still continue for a quarter or two more with the core lending picking up and perpetual subordinated debt, our capital adequacy will be better as we go along. As I said, what you are saying is right, but we need to look at the multiple options and take one. Understood. One more question on this project piece. You have given some data points on slide number 19. The ranges are very wide. Loss prevention, I think 10%-40%, operating cost 8%-20%. Any specific reason why such a wide range? No. Also on the OpEx to AUM, if you can give a guidance how we should look at it going forward. First, AI is a new animal. I think we are also a human organization because we are going to do it slowly, this is something which will be achieved over a period of time. If you say, the cost reduction over three years, then I'm very optimistic this might be on the higher side. In the first year, it will be on the lower side. As I said, everybody is sort of talking about it, doing it. In my opinion, more or less everybody will get the AI right. I mean, just like mobile and other technology. Few months here and there, everybody will adopt it. I think we are also looking at it as a completely new thing, that is why the range is wide. This is not a tested technology. This is not something that you have precedents or a model, you can say, "This is what I'll achieve. Okay. On the OpEx to AUM, what is your- Yeah. OpEx to AUM, I think we are down to 3.4. From here, there can be a marginal decline because we are also setting up new branches. Last year, we did not set up any new branch. I think 3.4, 3.3 or this is the range that you should look at. AI benefits, which are, again, black box. We'll see over the next two, three years that probably we can contain it further. This 3.3, 3.4, are you considering any benefits from this, whatever you have mentioned about Project PACE? Yes. Are you factoring in any benefits? Yeah. AI benefit, if you really look at our fixed cost in this quarter and last quarter, despite growth in the business, has grown by 2% or something like this. Obviously you see that the AI benefit has already started to kick in. It is very difficult to estimate. What I can tell you is that the operating cost over next two to three years, you will see a downward trajectory, which is combined impact of AI and also as our scale goes up. Our branch-led model with 4,500- 5,000 branches, we are a very heavy fixed cost model because the branches cost are fixed, the employees are fixed salaries. If the scale goes up, then the operating leverage benefits us a lot. I am also trying to factor in the expansion that we are going to do, because as I said, this year we want to set up 500 new branches. That will, to some extent, mitigate the benefit of operating leverage. Understood. Yes, that would be it from my end. Thanks and best luck. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Gaurav Khandelwal with JPMorgan. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got a couple of those. First, on asset quality, can I understand what's driving the higher gross NPAs both in home and gold loan segments quarter-on-quarter? Is there anything systemic that we need to worry about? I think gold, one should not worry about because these are customers that generally don't default and their jewelry are emotional value, so you have to be little careful and give them some more time. In housing also, as I said, that we are mending it structurally. As we go along, you will see that coming down significantly. Compared to, say, last year, we are significantly down. Now that we are pivoting towards a secured portfolio, then we'll see our credit costs and losses will become minimal. Got it. If I can just follow up. In case of your housing loans, on an average, whenever we see a default and an actual loss, what's the LGD on a blended basis for the housing book? If we take on the entire book, LGD will be anywhere between 33%-34%, and our coverage will stay accordingly below that. Got it. Okay. My second question on your longer-term strategy, I'm sorry if you've already answered this, your guidance of effectively increasing ROA by 50-odd basis points, a lot of that appears to be coming from credit costs. Outside of credit costs, are there any areas you think which can also help in terms of getting to the higher ROA in operating leverage or margins or otherwise? Also, I just wanted to understand what's the outlook for margins over the next two, three quarters. Have your cost of funding worries come down, especially after the spike in yields in initial part of the quarter? Those are my two questions. Thanks. ROA, I think 40, 50 basis points post-tax, something like 60, 70 basis points pre-tax, which is coming from 40, 50 basis points credit cost, 20, 30 basis points from maybe rest of the things which can be operating cost as well as the NIM improvement. In terms of credit, the cost of borrowing, cost of funds, I think the general industry is of the view that with FCNR definitively easing the system, we should be able to borrow at a lower rate. In the last couple of quarters, we have seen slightly higher rates and also our dollar bond has been at a higher cost. Margins are stable in the gold loan despite competition. We focus on a very small segment, the customers which their ticket size is small. There, I personally don't think any pressure on margin because the rate at which we lend, given our scale, we afford. Otherwise, for small-ticket loans, that's a very fair rate. We expect margin to be stable. Margins will remain in this range, and benefit will come from operating costs and also credit costs. Other income costs with AI, we should achieve some benefit there also. Got it. In fact, in this quarter, the gold loan yields are up slightly. Have you increased pricing for any particular gold product or what is driving this almost 20, 50 basis points increase? It's a portfolio yield. When we started after embargo, initially the yield was lower. As we have been talking about in earlier analyst call also, we have picked up. As quarter after quarter, you see the advantage coming in. As I said then, because we are focusing on small ticket loans, we are able to maintain our yield. The portfolio, typically see the loans are for 6 to 24 months actually. As the new loans are at a higher rate, you see yield improving. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Those were all my questions. Appreciate this. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Abhijit Tibrewal with Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Good evening, everyone, thank you for taking my questions. Congratulations on a good quarter. Nirmal sir, first on gold loans, just trying to understand with so many other larger, bigger NBFCs now pouring into gold loans in the last one or two quarters, have you heard anything from the ground in terms of they being aggressive or higher competitive intensity, or this is still just a narrative right now? Basically, what I'm trying to understand is, while in housing finance, Girish said earlier that we have managed to take yield highs, about 60, 70 basis points on the incremental loans that we are doing. Is that something similar we are able to do on gold loans as well? Okay, they are two different products. In housing, what is happening is that there's a mix, and earlier we had these micro LAP which had a higher yield of almost 18%-24%. That portfolio is declining. If you see that although Girish talked about boarding yield going up, the portfolio yield has come down in housing finance because that high-yield portfolio is running off. In gold, I mean, it is one product. Here, while the competition is there, I mean, I'm not denying that there's competition. Competition can be aggressive in two ways. One is they can drop the yield, and two is they can increase the LTV. We are seeing some of the new players getting aggressive in both ways. There's a huge market, and we have a customer franchise, so we really aren't chasing cutthroat competition or growth because we have our customers, our branches, and we are maintaining that relationship as well as our business. Also there's a learning curve. Many competitors have set up new branches. You need to get the system, security, people, training, everything right. That's a process. It's a massive market. It's a very large market. Still part of the market is unorganized sector. Banks have a very large market. Two, three large public sector banks have more than INR 3 lakh crore in the portfolio. I think the market is there and also now that unsecured lending has become difficult, more and more customers are veering towards lending or borrowing against gold. Got it, sir. The second question I had was about a lot of these management changes that we've seen in the last one year. I think we had a change in our CFO. I think today we have said that our business head, unsecured lending is moving to another role within the company. Girish sir himself has come on board for us. Unsecured lending, let me explain. Unsecured lending we have discontinued. Obviously that role has to be redefined somewhere. CFO is still there in handling strategy, but there are personal health issues, that is a different question. Other than that, if you really look at our Tier 2 management or even Tier 1, many of them have been there for 13, 20 or 30 years or so. If you look at our gold loan head, he has been here in the company now almost maybe 30 years or so. Almost 25, 30 years or so. There are many old people and they are the strength of the company. Some changes will happen in a company as large as this. Got it. Sir, are we looking to introduce any new products in the standalone entity now, while gold will remain the core product? Any newer products that you're looking to introduce or any other? I think the LAP or tech for MSME is the other product which will be there in our listed company. A very small product loan against shares continues. Other than that, we don't have any plans to introduce any new product. Got it. Lastly, sir, one clarification. When we said that we have discontinued unsecured lending, we'll stop doing unsecured business loans as well? Yeah, absolutely right. Unsecured business loan, personal loan, both get discontinued. Got it. Lastly, Girish sir, just trying to understand why you laid out that you're looking at about a 30% disbursement growth, 17%-18% loan growth this year. The fact that what Nirmal explained, that disbursement yields are higher But within that micro LAP used to be a higher yielding product, and that is running off and may not be a product anymore. How are you thinking about improving the ROE trajectory over the next couple of years? Actually, I spoke about what is going to be the plan for this year in terms of book growth, AUM growth, and disbursement. I think that trend will continue for next few years because we see a lot of potential. In spite of quarter one being soft, we have done pretty well on all the three fronts. To a certain extent, probably last year was soft. But even if I compare with quarter four sequentially, we have given a good lift on disbursement book and AUM. If I continue with this, maybe in next three years' time, we are looking at ROE of about mid-teens. I think that's the plan. We are focused on that. Now we are pivoting more towards affordable, and the balance we are also into emerging. We have completely cut down on prime, which means low-margin business. Every year if you take, if you look at any company's portfolio, I think that year's disbursement will account to 18%-20% of their entire book. Right? In next two to three years' time, which means 50%-60% of their entire book color will change, and that should lead to profitable growth, and it will also give us good returns. Really in terms of trajectory, probably what you are trying to understand is that how the acceleration will happen. Based on last year, our plan, quarter after quarter, we should see profitability improving faster than the loan growth. Perfect, sir. That answers all my questions. Thank you so much, I wish your team the very best. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Prithviraj Patil with Investec. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I just had the first question on the income tax note that the footnotes that is there in the financial statements. If you just elaborate on the INR 470 crore impact that is there. It is nothing. Which is what we discussed last time. There is no new development on that. There is a demand of INR 475 crore, which again will be a final appeal with CIT. You know the process of income tax is that first you file appeal to CIT, then you can go to tribunal, then you can go to High Court and Supreme Court. There is no new development there. Okay. Thank you. Also for the SRs, I see that the standalone entity, the SRs are the same quarter-on-quarter. If you could just elaborate on the SR position for the subsidiary where you have that. SRs basically, the redemptions will happen in a lumpy way. But as we have guided last time, that in 12- 18 months, probably more or less, all the SRs will be fully redeemed. As I said last time also that we believe that we will realize more than what the book value is. Actually, last quarter, there was not much movement. In the rest of the year, I think by September 2027, more or less, this book will be completely wound up. Good. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Lav Sharma with Point72. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for taking the question. If you could just highlight what was the credit cost for FY 2026 and this quarter, that will be very useful. Secondly, on the credit ratings on the international market, given that you have been very active, any indication of what your engagement has been with the agencies, given you are on positive outlook from two of them? I know you recently got a higher rating from Moody's, but just from the other two, where do we stand in terms of your communication and your discussion? Thank you. Thanks, Lav. Moody's has upgraded our rating with one notch above Fitch and S&P. Fitch has been actively engaged, and immediately after the results, they will take it to the committee. We are very optimistic that even Fitch rating should get upgraded. Also we'll engage with other agencies, other international agencies as well as local. Our credit cost for the first quarter is around- 1.6%. 1.6%. Yes. 1.6%. Okay. Understood. For the entire FY 2026? 1.6%. Okay. When we say credit cost, it's based on the average loan book. Okay. I think we have guided similar number, around 1.5%, 1.7%. Okay. Understood. Going forward, gold loans reported GNPA can be slightly higher as the book grows and the prices are volatile. We always have enough cushion. If the gold prices have fallen, then we don't press the button, trigger, and just auction everything depending on the margin that we have. In terms of reported number can vary. The loss given default in gold in the last 15, 16 years has almost been zero. Okay. Understood. Just on your borrowing cost, I know there's a slight uptick in the cost of funds for this quarter, given, I think probably you have raised more in the international market. Just generally, where do you see the trend for the next quarter? We raised $500 million by dollar bond, which is going to be the fully hedged. Our cost is slightly higher. This is international market which we should diversify and we should tap. A company like Shriram has done a wonderful job by being consistent in this market. Over a period of time, the cost comes down. That has basically been one of the reasons for the increase in our weighted average cost. As I said that the expectation is that after this FCNR liquidity will improve domestically and we should see the cost coming down. Okay. Understand. Thank you so much. That's it from me. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Rajiv Pathak with GC Holdings. Please go ahead. Hello. Good evening, everyone, and congratulations on a very good set of numbers. A few questions. First, on our gold loan business. We have done a fantastic 21% QOQ growth there. If you can just touch upon how much of this growth would be tonnage led and how much would be value led. If you can share that number. Secondly, if you look at the LTV, I think from March we were at 63%. Right now we are going to an LTV of 70%. Is there a headroom for us to now increase the LTV or now the growth will primarily be volume driven growth going forward for the next couple of quarters? That is on the gold loan part. On the asset quality, maybe we'll take it up later. Rajiv, I think our gold loan growth has not been 21%, but 11% quarter- over- quarter. Hello? Hello. Yeah, 11% quarter-over-quarter. Sorry, 11% quarter-on-quarter, yeah. [audio distortion] The 5%-6% is in the tonnage growth. The gold prices have corrected in February and not in this quarter. I think we are maintaining a healthy cushion there. Okay. On the asset quality in the gold loans, if you were to look at the 1-30 DPD and the breakups that you generally give, we have seen an increase as compared to Q4. Basically the gold loan portfolio and the MSME, both secured and unsecured, have seen an increase in the 1-30 and the 30-90 DPD buckets. What could be the reasons? Okay. Gold loan, I think this question I had answered earlier also. We don't have any penalty or any penal charges in case customers pay before 90 days. Normally, these are the small amounts that customers, their branches collect on a monthly basis. Typically they know that just before 90 days they have to collect it fully. In some small stake, yes, there can be some delay. Therefore, 0-30 and 30 - 60 can be higher. Mostly these are small traders, shopkeepers, businessmen, mobile phone shops. You generally collect before 90 days. Okay. I won't be worried about the slight increase in the DPD in the gold loans. Okay. This is also not very significant if you compare number quarter-over-quarter, it's very marginal. Yeah. In terms of absolute amount, it is not big. Basically, if you were to take a point, that means we're saying that while the gold prices may be volatile, maybe even downward going over the next two quarters, for example, your buckets may move in between 30, 60, but your 90 DPD, you don't think that will go up, right? Yeah. Even if that goes up a little bit, a few basis points, the losses are not there. Ultimately, it comes back. Okay, sure. Sir, on the MSME part, both secured and unsecured? MSME unsecured is a discontinued business. There, I think we are recovering whatever is the balance portfolio. The denominator keeps shrinking, so you might see some increase. In case of MSME secured again, I think it's a very marginal movement, hardly any two basis point movement. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Sir, on the microfinance portfolio, we have seen a growth coming this quarter also. Would you see a same quarter-on-quarter AUM growth trend now going forward and even for the profitability and ROE in this business improving quarter-by-quarter going forward? Microfinance industry has picked up. There's about 3%-4% growth quarter-over-quarter. Within that also, the microfinance also diversifying more into retail and the secured other loans, which is Udyogini scheme and other products that we do. Microfinance industry, okay, we won't grow at 30%, 40%, 50%, 60% what it grew in 2024. About 3%-4% growth per quarter will happen. Okay. What is the ROE target that you would have here? ROE target for? Microfinance, Samasta. I think it'll be around 2.5%-3%. Venkatesh are you online? Yeah, Nirmal. We'll hit around 2.5%-3%. 2.5%-3%. 2.4% will go to 2.5%-3% kind of a range by the end of the year. Yeah. Yeah, 2%-3% is the figure. Okay. Thank you very much, and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shreepal Doshi with Equirus. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. My question is pertaining to the gold finance book. In this quarter, we have seen the new RBI framework being implemented for the lenders. What sort of challenges or development that you've seen during the quarter while doing the business? As well as have you made any changes in terms of tenure, in terms of, let's say, product launches within the gold loan portfolio, or we are still continuing with the vanilla gold loan product that we had? Income assessment has become mandatory. Okay, you can define the loan as consumption or income-generating loan. In consumption loan, you cannot go beyond 75% LTV, and in income-generating loan, you can go beyond 75% LTV, but you have to make sure that you do the assessment of cash flows and income. We are working with this. We have a good technology-driven system to do that for small businesses that borrow from us. In a way, I think these developments are healthy from a long-term point of view. Our systems are fully tuned to that. To just follow up on that, we have launched an income-generating gold loan product as well, do you mean to say? We have income-generating gold loan product also, and we take a clear certificate and business proof for that also. Yes, absolutely. Got it. Sir, with respect to the new framework, as you also put up, you have launched this product as well. At ground level, did we change anything on the tenure side? Because implementing the consumption loan product, implementing the newer LTV norms could actually lead to lower disbursements for the customers. Have we tweaked anything on the tenure side during the quarter? Not really. We always have a tenure of two years available for customers, so that continues. Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you so much for answering my question. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Varun Gajaria with Omkara Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir, thank you for taking my question. Congratulations on a good set. I just wanted to understand on the previous question that one of the participants asked, if you could just walk us through the 30+ slippages. If there's any part that you're concerned about. I'm sorry if you already answered this. 30+ slippages, in which product you are saying? Overall in the asset quality metrics that you mentioned. 1- 30 and 30+. If you look at our slide 12, that gives you the numbers for every product on 30+, 60+ and beyond. Yeah. No, I'm aware of the metrics. What I'm trying to get at is there is a very sharp increase in those metrics, especially in gold. If there's anything concerning about it. No, gold loan, I think the 30+ is how much now? One second. 3.8%, was it? 30+ is 3.8%. 3.8%. As I said, it's a very marginal increase, first. Secondly, gold loan, sometimes some customers don't pay on time, and based on our margin, we hold back. We just don't auction. This is not something which is not manageable. This is more or less, if you see historically, the numbers have been in this range. Okay. This is sort of seasonal and nothing that you're worried about, right? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Your next follow-up question comes from Pavan Kumar with Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead. Mr. Kumar- Hello. Your line is unmuted. Please go ahead with your question. Yes. Hi. Thank you. In continuation of Sighal's question from earlier, couple of gold loan companies mentioned they are looking to structure gold loans as interest paying instead of bullet loans. Have you made any such change on the interest side? That's one. The second thing, on the standalone entity, the assignment quantum actually increased year-over-year from INR 4,200 crore to INR 4,800 crore. This is the Q1 number. The assignment income has come down from INR 173 crore to INR 43 crore. Any reason for that? Lastly, earlier you used to give data book. Have you stopped it? It used to be quite useful. No, data book is there. It's uploaded already. It's uploaded already on our website. I think there was a link in the presentation that we should add. We upload a separate link. Data book is already there on our website. Okay. I missed it. Thank you. No worries. I think the link, which is there on the last page is there, but I will just make sure it is there. That is about the data book. Your other question was? On the interest, instead of being bullet loans, are you looking at. We always had that product. In gold loans when a customer walks in, you can have a monthly interest payment, quarterly interest payment, six monthly or a bullet, and the interest rate differs. If you say choose monthly interest, then your interest rate is lower. We also know that the customer is a regular income-generating and is a good customer. We always had these products. There's nothing new we need to introduce. Is there any traction for that particular product? Particularly like monitoring income-generating loans is quite difficult compared, right? So- At the bank. Please. I think too early because they are income generating and these things have started in this quarter. We'll see the trend now. As of now, I don't have much variance or something which is significant. Got it, sir. The assignment income going down from INR 170 crore. Assignment income. Just one second. Hello? Hello? Assignment income of IIFL Home Finance has gone down because the assignments are smaller. Standalone has gone up. The assignment income in home loan because of 15-year product for your seven, eight-year behavioral would be much more, significantly more. No, sir, I'm referring to standalone entity. The INR 173 crore to INR 43 crore net gain on derecognition. Oh, yeah. I think you're talking about the standalone listing. Yeah, correct. Also you have given the- That is co-lending has picked up, but our assignment was also higher. Sometimes what happens, assignment, they happen towards the end of the quarter, we can just take for a limited listing. I really need to get-- Just give me one minute. Sure, sir. Yeah, I think. What will happen, the incremental deals in quarter are lesser now because co-lending has picked up. Although the portfolio might have gone up. This happens based on the targets which is done during the quarter. That is why you see lower assignment income in standalone. Sir, you disclose that the assignment amount of loans are assigned at INR 4,800 crore this quarter. The upfront income is based on the targets that are done during the quarter. Correct. During the quarter- The targets done during the quarter are fewer as compared to the previous year same quarter. The quantum is not lower, sir. INR 4,200 crore- Sorry? Please go ahead, sir. Yeah. No, you are saying INR 4,200 crore? These are the portfolios. Last year you have done. No, last year, I think INR 4,600 crore you are referring to. Is it the targets that are done during the quarter? Maybe. No, sir. That's the portfolio. It is INR 4,200 crore was the last year amount assignment done. This year, you have done INR 4,800 crore. There is a INR 600 crore higher assignment done this year versus last year. In the first quarter itself, you are saying? Correct, sir. Maybe I'll have to get into this and get back to you. Okay, sure sir. Thank you. We'll just find out the analysis and get back to you, Pavan. Thank you so much, sir, and congratulations. Going forward, at least the standalone, we will see that this income comes down as the co-lending picks up. This entire upfronting will become almost negligible in next quarters. Got it, sir. Thank you so much for that clarity. Okay, sir. That's it from me. Thank you. The next follow-up question comes from Abhijit Tibrewal with Motilal Oswal. Please. Yeah, thank you for allowing me a follow-up. Sir, just this thing, the new gold loan guidelines that got implemented from April, and what you mentioned, consumption loan and income generation loans. On the co-lending arrangements that we have with banks, are banks ready with their assessment or the way they want to underwrite these income-generation gold loans? All banks have different policies. Some banks are more conservative, and they have a lower threshold than RBI's maximum allowed. Every bank has a different requirement. I answered earlier that we are fully aligned with the new framework, which is income-generating, assessing the income, and tracking them. That has not impacted our business much. In a way, we think that's a positive development because, see, there's a discipline in the type of loan that you're doing for consumption or for business. For consumption, you'll be more conservative. For business, you can be little more liberal based on the income and the prospects of the customers of the business. Got it. For this, banks need to be ready, right? In terms of how they want to assess this income-generation loans. Is that the right understanding? No. The banks basically work along with us. It's like a joint lending. We work with banks in terms of what kind of income proof. Actually, most of the banks that we work with, they are very happy with our process. We do a CIBIL pull, and then we also look at the digital data, and then based on what we talk to customers, we estimate the income. When you do co-lending, our banks have to accept your process, and that should meet their standards also. Only you get started. We talk to them, we engage with them, and we work out a joint process. Sometimes if our process, they need some more things then we add it. For every bank, we will work separately. Got it. Got it, sir. Thank you so much for answering the question. Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star one to ask a question. As there are no further questions from the participants, this concludes our question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management for closing remarks. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand the conference back to the management for closing comments. Thank you. If you have any more queries or any questions, you can reach out to our investor relations or our CFO's department. Thank you so much. Have a good evening ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of IIFL Finance Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you everyone for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.