Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings conference call of ICICI Securities Limited for the quarter- ended March 31, 2021. We have with us today on the call Mr. Vijay Chandok, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Ajay Saraf, Executive Director, Mr. Harvinder Jaspal, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Vishal Gulecha, Head Retail Equity, Mr. Kedar Deshpande, Head Retail Distribution, Product and Services Group, Mr. Anupam Guha, Head Private Wealth Management, Mr. Subhash Kelkar, Chief Technology and Digital Officer, Mr. Ketan Karkhanis, Head Retail Distribution Business, and Mr. Prasannan Keshavan, Head Operation. For the duration of this presentation, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. I will be standing by for the question- and- answer session. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone telephone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. The business presentation can be found on company's corporate website, icicisecurities.com, under Investor Relations. I would now like to call Mr. Chandok to take over the proceedings. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Fourth quarter earnings call for fiscal 2021. I trust that all of you, your near and dear ones, are safe and healthy, and I hope it remains that way. As we have all experienced, FY 2020 was indeed an unusual year. At a time like this, I feel it is imperative that I just take a quick reassessment of the opportunity that ICICI Securities has been pursuing as a part of its strategy. As we do this, we find that all the medium-term drivers of opportunity that we've been pursuing, which include increase in financialization, preferences of investors towards equity, increasing formalization, and growing affluence. All these trends remain intact. In fact, if at all, the pandemic seems to have front-loaded the digital aspects of this opportunity, which is clearly reflected in terms of growing participation from newcomers in the financial market and increasing penetration of financial products in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. Having said that, now let us straightaway shift the attention to our quarterly performance. I'm sure by now all of you would have perused through our quarterly result, which has been placed on our website. Our company has continued progressing on its strategy, and we are very pleased to report that for the current quarter, our company revenue stood at about INR 7.4 billion, a growth of 53%, and profit after tax stood at INR 3.3 billion, a growth of 111%. We continue to focus on enhancing operating leverage, resulting in reduction in branch and employee count, consequently bringing down our cost-to-income ratio to about 40%. All this has helped us increase our ROE further, which is now standing at about 81%. We are happy to report that following these results, our Board of Directors have approved a final dividend of INR 13.5 per share as compared to INR 6.75 per share last year, taking our total financial 2021 dividend to INR 21.5 per share, up from INR 11 per share last year. This is resulting in dividend payout ratio of about 65%. As we look back at FY 2021, it is important to point out that we have further strengthened our franchise and our client base has now increased well past 5 million mark. We are at about 5.4 million clients. If you were to count the assets of these clients with us, this has now grown by about 85% during this year and stands at over INR 3.8 trillion. This is clearly driven by all-around growth across businesses. Our asset-light model has held us in good stead during this period, and it has indeed inherent strengths like virtually there is no inventory or supply chain risks, low credit risk and receivable risk, strong liquidity position. All these factors of our business model are really desirable aspects, particularly in the current environment. Further, our business model, as you would all appreciate, is highly digital and highly scalable. This is because more than 96% of mutual fund transactions and virtually all of the equity transactions are done digitally. In addition to this, some far more open architecture with the introduction of digital sourcing. Also became more open architecture, with the addition of new health insurance partner, which was Max Bupa, we just added in the quarter four. We also added a new distribution partner for equity product in form of a three-in-one account, which is Federal Bank. This is in addition to ICICI Bank. We now distribute more than 50 products and services through our platform. These aspects of our business model has helped us generate a high ROE and has also helped us diversify, more importantly, revenue stream from our clients. Our digital sourcing engines have also started adding customers at a faster pace, and as a result of that, it has helped us more than triple our monthly sourcing run rate as we are exiting this fiscal year. It's also interesting to note that 52% of our customers that we acquired in the current fiscal year actually were below the age group of 30 years, and more than 65% actually came from Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. All in all, FY 2021, our franchise strengthened, our business became more open architecture. We added more products, more hooks to deal with customers. All this is helping us diversify our revenue across various retail product revenue streams. Let us now have a brief look at the market environment along with some important updates or performance of the various business segments for this quarter. As you are all aware, the equity market continued their strong run with benchmark index Nifty increasing by 5% during the quarter. During this period, over 5.3 million new Demat accounts were opened. Equity and derivative ADTOs increased by 70% and 120%, respectively. This buoyancy in equity market continued, and we saw 45 deals in the quarter that happened as compared to 13 deals in the last quarter of last fiscal. On the regulatory front, the second phase of the new uniform margin norms was implemented across the industry from March 2021. Over the years, we have witnessed that regulatory changes have always led to an orderly growth of the market. What we have also experienced is in instances when these regulatory norms are implemented, where volume of business gets impacted in the industry. Typically, they resume growth after a transitory phase. In line with this trend, we find that equity ADTOs for the industry actually declined in the month of March 2021 when you compare it with February 2021. The ADTOs for derivative actually remained largely flat. It was largely unaffected. It is also interesting to note that equity ADTOs for March was at the same level or similar level to what ADTOs was in November 2020, and the derivative ADTO actually happened to be even higher than November 2020. November 2020 was the time when the stage 1 of these norms were implemented. This clearly reflects the resilience of the market and also it reflects the trend that I just spoke about. In the backdrop of these developments in the industry during our quarter, our efforts to invest our resources and scale up digital sourcing has started to show results. We added about 3.5 lakh customers in the quarter. This is our highest ever addition. This was driven by our digital channel, which added about 2.25 lakh customers, which was up from 38,000 in the sequential previous quarter. We have diversified our sourcing mix with non-ICICI Bank sourcing channels. That is digital sourcing, business partners, and our own RM network together contributing now more than 55% of the account source. Our persistent focus on quality has helped us achieve an activation ratio of 84% for the quarter ended March 31st. This scale-up in our sourcing, coupled with healthy adoption of our product proposition, resulted in the NSE active customer base growing by 47% to 1.58 million as at 31st March, 2021. We added actually 145,000 NSE active customers in the month of March alone, achieving an incremental market share of 16% for the month. This was up from about 1.5% market share that we had for the month of April 2020. In our equity segment, as a result of implementation of phase II norms of the regulations of margin, we did see some de-growth in equity and derivative turnover. This was in the month of March as compared to February. Our market share in equity increased by 50% YoY. If you look at on a sequential basis, it was down by 90 basis points. Our market share in derivatives for the quarter sequentially fell by about 40 basis points from December 2020 levels. This reduction in market share is actually primarily on account of the new margin norms, which has impacted one of our key differentiators that we were offering in our marketplace. That is our ability to provide better leverage to our clients, which we were able to do on the back of our robust technology and risk management systems. Also higher contribution of intraday in our product volume mix as compared to the market. We are focused on driving market share and have adopted a multi-pronged approach for this business segment. What are we doing here? First, we have launched Neo, an extremely competitive plan targeted at attracting this price-sensitive trading segment. Second, we have launched a plethora of tools and solutions like i-Track, i-Alerts, i-Lens, and P/E analyzer, which are important enablers for growing business in this segment. Last but not the least, growth in number of active clients by acquiring new clients and activating existing ones is also important for growing volume in this segment. We believe all these initiatives that we have taken and we continue to take is helping us position us strongly in this segment. However, it is going to take a few quarters before the impact of all these measures start reflecting in volume market share gain. Initial signs are encouraging, particularly because we are seeing a gain in traction of customer acquisition. We looked at volume market share. Now let's look at the revenue performance of this equity business. Our revenue in this business actually increased by 38% YoY, driven by higher ADTO, which actually grew by 78% YoY. On a sequential basis, retail broking revenue increased by 7%. This is despite lesser number of trading days in the current quarter and also despite the decline in market share. Why did this happen? This happened because, number one, there was growth in number of customers that are trading with us. Number two, it is a better volume mix of segments which were not impacted by margin norms like delivery volume. Number three, it was on account of lower revenue salience of these volumes which have been impacted by margin norms. For example, if you look at the derivative revenue which was impacted in the month of March, when you compare it with sequential February, the decline despite this loss of market share was only 1% of the total revenue of equity on a month-on-month basis. Revenue salience of this volume on market share loss is quite small. Our focus on non-broking revenue streams that we have been talking to you about, like interest income from ESOP, MTF both of which doubled actually on a YoY basis. Various depository charges that we charge the customers, the subscription fees that we charge for Neo as well as Prime. All this is helping us diversify our equity revenue and these diversified sources of revenue, which we call the allied sources of revenue from equities, are now on a combined basis contributing 20% of the total equity revenue, which used to be about 15% a year back. In order to augment this monetizing capability from our clients and to enhance the customer experience, we actually launched a slew of initiatives recently. Some notable ones was the global investing platform, which facilitates investors investing in the U.S. market. This has attracted about nearly 3,900+ customers and remittances worth $14 million. Nearly INR 100 crores has already happened through the platform. Our one-click investments are being appreciated by the customers, about 85,000 equity portfolios have been subscribed to date. We are also expanding portfolio by launching commodity, where we have already added 50,000 customers since the launch. Our partnership with Federal Bank for offering the three-in-one accounts, we expect will start adding momentum to the diversification of new revenue pools as we go forward. When we look at our institutional equity revenue, it grew by 30% YoY, aided by consolidating of our position amongst domestic institutions and also strengthening of the FII franchise. When it comes to our issuer and advisory services business, our revenue increase was 441% on a YoY basis. We executed 15 investment banking deals in the current quarter as compared to just two in the last quarter of last fiscal. For FY 2021, we were ranked as the number one player in the IPO, FPO, InvIT and REIT issuance market with a market share of about 78%. We were also ranked number two amongst domestic financial advisors by number of deals in the M&A league table. Moving from equity to the distribution business, it's important to note that the gross flows for the industry into mutual fund actually remained subdued. Actually, it was down by 37% on a YoY basis. While there were net outflows in the industry, equity mutual funds witnessed net inflows after a gap of seven months in the month of February, and the flows further increased in the month of March. SIP inflows finally hit a record of about INR 92 billion in the month of March 2021. Our mutual fund revenue grew by 22%, aided by our sustained focus on input parameters, and we've been focused very sharply on improving input parameters. Our market share on a gross flow basis increased from 0.18% to about 0.31%, and on SIP flows, our market share increased from 3.29% to 4.05%. We are pleased to also report that we disbursed a total of about INR 530 crore of loans, which is our highest ever quantum of loans in a quarter, and this was compared to INR 2.2 billion or INR 220 crore that we disbursed during the fourth quarter of last year. Our non-mutual fund revenue grew by 29% YoY, aided by strong growth across investment products like PMS, sovereign gold bonds, AIF, life insurance, and loan products. As a result of growth in our mutual fund and non-mutual fund distribution, our overall distribution income registered a growth of 22% YoY. We are continuously working on improving customer experience and have launched various initiatives in this direction. Our one-click investment aimed at simplifying the experience of mutual funds for our customers now contributes 16% of the new SIP and is one of the key contributors for our growth in our SIP market share that I spoke about. We also launched our ICICIdirect Money app targeted at mutual fund investors to simplify and decongest their investment journey. We went open architecture on health insurance, which has helped us scale up the number of policies that we sold in this domain by 4x on a YoY basis. Our focus on micro-segmenting the client base and providing personalized experience using analytics, new age tools that we offer helps improving our Net Promoter Score and also cross-sell ratios. Our cross-sell ratio increased to actually 1.78 versus 1.64 in Q4 last year. During this quarter, customers with two or more products increased to more than a million, up by 10% on a YoY basis. This increased engagement was reflected by our overall active customer base, which went up by 29% on a YoY basis to 1.91 million. Coming to our wealth management business, this registered a growth of 82%, driven by an increase in total assets to about INR 1.7 trillion, a growth of 102% on a YoY basis. The yield in the wealth management business increased to 0.4% from 0.37% a year ago. We added a little more than 4,700 clients to our wealth segment, taking the total number of clients in the wealth segment, where the individual AUM is more than INR 1 crore per customer, is now at about 47,400 approximately. We also scaled up our proprietary PMS now to about INR 220 crore, a growth of 100% YoY. We introduced a product branded Premium Portfolio, which is a curated research-backed solution for HNI clients for investments into equity and onboarded over 500 HNI clients through this product. I think to sum up, we believe that the pandemic has front-loaded the digital narrative and has accelerated the market opportunity. Digital infrastructure, analytics, and behavior shifts that we are observing are coming together imaginatively, and we at ICICI are very pleased and very well-positioned to take advantage of this opportunity, with the help of our strategy articulated, which is digital and open architecture. I would like to end our commentary and open the call for questions that you may have. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets when asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder to the participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have any follow-up, we would request you to rejoin the queue, please. The first question is from the line of Malhar Heman Manek, an individual investor. Please go ahead. Hello. Good evening, sir. Firstly, congratulations on a great set of numbers, and thank you for this opportunity. I have a couple of queries. Sir, firstly, I have a fundamental question about our business model, because we are into both investment banking as well as full-service broking, where we publish research reports. I believe there can be a conflict of interest, because you will not initiate a sell report on your listed investment banking client irrespective of their business fundamentals or valuation, just to maintain a good client relationship. What are your thoughts on this conflict of interest? Hi. This is Harvinder here. Thanks for your question. As you know, we work across four or five different business segments. Investment Banking is one of our business segments. We have a very independent research team which reports directly to the MD, therefore, We have very strong governance processes around Chinese walls and various regulatory as well as best practice-related processes which ensure that our research is completely independent and can stand on its own feet. It is based on merits of a particular deal, a transaction where the analysis could be done. It is quite possible that we may have a sell recommendation or a buy recommendation. That is completely a lookout of the analysts who are independently assessed, who are independently monitored based on their ranking with individual investors. That is what they are measured on. It's a completely independent process. In that case, don't you think it will impact your relationships with the investment banking client? No. That's what I'm saying, that investment banking, we enjoy a pretty dominant share over their investment banking based on our relationship with corporates and our ability to execute. On research side, the relationships are from the buy side, there also we enjoy pretty decent rankings from our investors in our ability to be able to service them with independent research coverage. Okay. In fact it adds as a strength because now we are a full service house. We are able to service a broad cross-section of needs across products and business segments. Right. My second question is that our profit growth in the recent quarters has been largely on account of the increase in the retail investor participation post the COVID crash and the rally in the market. To what extent do you think this growth is sustainable going forward? Just a correction over here. If you look at our revenue growth for the quarter of the 53% revenue growth that we are registering has been actually across all the business segments. I'll just quote some number to refresh. The retail brokerage revenue grew by about 48%. Allied Broking, which is our diversification initiative things like interest income, et cetera, and equity business, grew by more than 100% actually. Our distribution income grew by 22%. Our wealth income grew by 82%. Our institutional equity grew by 38%. Our issuer management and advisory services income grew by more than 4x. It has been all across business segments and not only driven by retail participation, but yes, we do acknowledge that retail participation has increased and that has helped us in our retail equity business. Right. Mr. Manek? Yes. Sorry to interrupt, but for any follow-up, may we request you to rejoin the queue, please? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to the participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Kashyap Javeri from Emkay Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Hello. Hello, am I audible? Yes. Hi, Kashyap. Please go ahead. Thank you so much for this opportunity and congratulations for such great numbers for the quarter. My two questions are, first if I look at your market share in derivatives the decline seemingly is much sharper than probably what our commentary has been for the last about two quarters post those regulations were announced. Any strategy in place to recoup that market share? Consequent of that loss of market share, if I look at your revenue per client at about INR 9,500 or let's say about INR 38-40 per client per day it's like a multi-quarter low. What are the strategies that we are adopting to push that number up given that client addition has been very strong. The second question is in terms of our non-mutual fund distribution revenue. There would be some base effect in the same quarter last year because distribution was probably closed for about 15 days in March last year. What's the steady state run rate that one could expect in that particular business? Thanks for that question. If you really look at our commentary and go back to our last investor meeting, we specifically actually gave out the market share of derivatives which usually we give on a quarter-to-quarter basis, we actually gave a month-on-month basis. We shared with you the market share in the month of November, October, and December separately. We showed to you that our market share in December had come down to about 3.4%. The commentary was very clearly reflected in our last quarter results itself that the derivative has been impacted on volume market share, and we also explained that the decline in market share was offset by gains in revenue that took place on the non-derivative side. In line with that trend, we've seen that when round two happened, and we had also said that the biggest impact had already been sort of factored in, and going forward, the impact could be not that high. Which is what is actually played out. It has happened exactly as we had sort of felt at that point in time. We also said that the revenue salience is not much, which is played out both in December as well as in the quarter of this year. That is what was our sort of narrative when it came to derivative market share. We also sort of had spelt out a series of initiatives that we are taking to recoup market share, and I'll just reiterate some of the points quickly. One is to win in the space. Clearly, there have been historically three levers. One lever has been leverage, second lever has been pricing, and third lever has been a set of tools. Ideally, you should have all the three to be the best player in the market. Most players pick two out of the three and play the game. Our choice was on leverage because we had a great risk management system and we had great balance sheet strength so that we were able to provide that. That was an area of strength and that's what helped us in that particular segment. With the coming of these norms, actually, that lever is no longer relevant to differentiate. We very rapidly introduced a plan called the Neo plan, which is the most attractive trading plan that is there in the Indian market. Where the traders, we charge them INR 20 for an intraday equity, INR 20 for an intraday F&O and options, and INR 0 for futures. It is the most attractive plan that is there in the market. Apart from that, you need to improve experiences and provide tools. All of that has been sort of identified, and we are started introducing them one by one. I gave a list of some of the tools when I was giving the earnings call commentary. We still have a bunch of tools. They have just been launched and more tools are coming, including algo tools, et cetera, that are required to gain traction in this segment. Now that we have a good proposition, we have tools which have come/coming, and we have growth in customer base. This triumvirate has to come together in a meaningful manner to start showing volume growth. As I have said that this is not going to happen in a short time, it is going to be a more multi quarter sort of a play out before we can start seeing the improvement and impact on market share. That is how we are looking to address the market share issue there. Your second question was. With respect to ARPUs, Kashyap, I'll come in. Harvinder, here. Yeah. First of all, let me clarify our ARPU for retail equity and allied business. That actually has gone up. It was about INR 8,700 last year for FY 2020. It is now at about INR 10,100. It's a growth of about 15 odd%. Again, this takes into account the entire active base, and we must recognize the fact that we have seen a surge in client acquisition towards the last quarter. These clients, although the huge number of clients have come in in the last quarter, they have really not got a full opportunity to start giving a 12-month revenue. Despite that, which obviously impacts mathematically the denominator. Despite that, we have seen a 15% growth in ARPU and not really a decline. Corrected for that, this is a growth. Even on an overall basis, the growth is about 15%. Did you have a follow-up question? Sorry, just one clarification over here on the market share side. If I look at our cash market share also it was about 11%+, then went down to about 10.5%. Now it's about 9.5%. The gains that we did over the first half of last year, FY 2021, by the end of the year we are back to where we were in March 2020, plus about 50 basis points versus March 2020. In cash, what's happening? The second question then was about non-mutual fund distribution income. Let's say non-mutual fund as well as non-insurance, the distribution income which is there in the presentation. On the intraday side, on the equity side, the cash equity side, you have intraday and delivery. While you said that the market share gains of the earlier period has been sort of reduced consequent to this, the mix with where it has reduced are different. It is reduced in intraday and not really in the cash side. Cash we have probably gained, although the data doesn't come out, intuitively one can guess we would have gained. Given that reality, you would have seen growth in revenue. Otherwise, revenue growth could not have happened. The areas where we have lost volume market share. This volume is not an amorphous volume. It got different segments and different segments offer different yields. What we gained is the richer yield. What we lost is the lesser yield. Headline numbers, you are right in saying that the market share gain is equal to whatever we gained, a good part of it got lost. That is right in the headline segment sense. The revenue impacts of the two are not same. That said, I think we are on a far better wicket today with far more competitive capabilities than we were ever in the past when we were actually gaining, which gives us the platform on which we can build now that we have got competitive products as well, apart from the strengths of the past. It is just a few months into the launch. We are quite hopeful that these launches will help us gain in the times forward the market share that has declined. We have to also factor in the point that there has got to be a settling down of the two more phases of norms, which are phase III and phase IV. Simultaneous growth that we are attempting, both these have to be sort of seen and played out to start seeing the full impact of market share growth assumption. On the second part, which is on the non-mutual fund. Kashyap, on the non-mutual fund, your questions were, 1, was it a base effect because there was a lockdown, therefore, Q4 was lower? Second question was how much of it is sustainable? I'll try to address it in two parts. If you look at the last year, by the time the lockdown started, the quarter was almost over. We actually for last year also registered a sequential growth in terms of premium income, et cetera, in life insurance. The other aspect is on that base, we have grown both sequentially as well as on a YoY in a strong way in life insurance. We have also been able to improve our yield based on a better product mix. We have more protection, et cetera, which is offering us a yield improvement in insurance. Other than that, what we have also been able to do is grow some of the other lines. For example, we have a very decent market share in SGB now. We have a run rate now crossing INR 500 crores of loan disbursals, which historically has been about INR 200 crores-INR 220 crores, INR 230 crores kind of a run rate. That is a more structural aspect which has started giving results. We expect that we should be able to go from strength to strength, and therefore, both non-mutual fund, overall distribution, and cross-sell are a key area of focus for us to grow active client and revenue as well as ARPU. Yes. Thank you very much. Thanks for the answers. Thanks, Kashyap. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aadesh Mehta from Motilal Oswal Asset Management. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Congratulations on great set of numbers. My questions have already been answered. Beyond that, I just wanted to understand that the margin becomes a bit tighter over the next two quarters. Once this settles down, how do we plan to take up our market share in derivatives where we were, say, a year back or so? Thanks. Thanks, Aadesh, for this question. I thought I answered that question, right? I explained that there are three vectors of competition in the derivatives, which one is the ability to provide leverage, second is the ability to provide tools, and third is the ability to compete on pricing. Historically, we have been competing on leverage. We are now competing on a combination of pricing and bringing up tools and better experiences. It is going to take a few quarters of effort before both these translate into a growth in customers and eventually growth in market share. It is not a one quarter fix when it comes to volume market share growth. The point I'll just reiterate here that the revenue salience of this market share loss is relatively lower, and that is what is reflected in the fact that despite market share loss, despite having lower operating days compared to the sequential previous quarter, we have seen an overall increase in broking revenue on a sequential quarter base. Relatively, the point is that relatively lower, I would say, salience on revenue, more impact on headline volume share. The impact of that volume is becoming less and less. In fact, as we move forward, our basis of pricing is no longer volume because we are pricing on number of trades. Beyond a point, volume gain has no meaning in revenue. What is important is increasing customers. What is important is increasing getting more trades. That is what will give us revenue. Increasingly, we are becoming detached with volume market share. Not fully yet, but in the course of the future. Got it, sir. Sir, in terms of our performance on client addition has been quite impressive this quarter, and I believe this would be mostly because of the revamped pricing we have done in terms of Neo and Neo Prime. Just wanted to understand that how do you do the revenue recognition for the fees which you get on those kind of customers? This would be upfronted fee you would be taking from your customers, right? No, Aadesh. It gets amortized over 12 months. Okay. First and foremost, let me just elaborate one aspect, that most of our growth has come not on account of the new plan. Actually, most of our growth has come because of improvement in customer experiences and customer journeys. It's come through digital. In fact, we have not even introduced our new plan on a digital journey in a seamless way yet. We are integrating it, and we are going to do that shortly. This growth in business has happened simply because we eased up our journey and decongested the whole process. The real impact of this plan is in the future. Got it, sir. Thank you very much, sir. Wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the total retail broking revenue, how much is delivery contributing to our total revenue? As I see, the realization per ADTO has significantly increased by 68% in the current quarter compared to what we were reporting last couple of quarters. Delivery, which usually used to contribute closer to 50% odd of our total revenue or retail broking revenue, how much it has been? I just wanted to know the sustainability, because I believe bulk of that was because of the recent hyper IPO market activity, where HNI and ultra-HNI customers would have taken the deliveries. Just wanted to understand the sustainability of the delivery-related income in our top line. Yeah. Sanketh, hi. Harvinder here. This delivery revenue contribution, while we have not put out the exact number, but as we have said in the past, it is more than 50%. Typically, for the market, we understand that it's quite equally divided. For us, the segment for delivery is higher. With more than 50%, we have not put out a number. Currently, yes, we have seen a higher traction in the delivery or the investing customer segment. If you look at all the parameters, like MTF. MTF is a product which is more focused on delivery or investing kind of a client segment. Delivery volumes, what you correctly correlated, all those have shown good improvement. Right now, it is a higher level of activity. It may moderate in the future. Having said that, it is a substantial portion of the client share. For the market, for us also, a lot of clients are delivery or investing kind of a client. Our endeavor is to be able to service all of them. In fact, we were speaking about Neo in the last question. Our Prime proposition is a very attractive proposition for an investing kind of a customer. That is gaining traction. We now have more than 6.5 lakh customers in Prime. Incrementally also, almost half of the customers are subscribing to Prime. That is an attraction of a delivery. It is not only a market mix, but the proposition is also attracting its own customer, and we are building on that scale of investing customers. We want to have a presence in trading customer segment. We want to attract investing customer segment through our proposition. I'll just add one point. I think never before in our history we've had the best-in-class product when it comes to attracting the investor profile and the best-in-class product when it comes to attracting the trader. When it comes to trader, he is very conscious of stuff like cost. That's why our plan is the cheapest cost. When it comes to an investor, we give him liquidity research and investment guidance. It's very compelling. Nobody gives liquidity in the market, instant liquidity. Very unique positioning on both ends of the pipe that is helping us. Certainly, we are growing every aspect or every segment or every micro segment of the market by adding newer and newer propositions. For example, even to attract our investor set of customers, we have also got one of the most attractively priced MTF plans. At 8.9%, nobody offers anywhere else in the market. It's very attractive. There are some things unique which we have put for the first time, which gives us the strength to keep attracting different segments of the market. We are ahead of the curve right now on the delivery side, because we have started the efforts of the intraday only in the month of December, and we are accelerating that momentum there. It will take a few quarters before we become even stronger in the new regime of the margin norm. These propositions which are attractive and large enough to offset the decline in volume so that we become more balanced. See, our effort is always to be balanced and be diversified. We don't want to be too much dependent on one side, and that's why so much of emphasis on non-equity products as well, not just equity. We are texturizing equity revenue. We are also adding more non-equity revenue. Got it. Why I was asking this question, means the realization was too good. Just delivery probably is substantially higher than 50% odd in the current quarter. That's the reason I was probably asking that question, and therefore the sustainability is there or not. My second question is basically on the MTF book. Last time you indicated that you had a market share of around 20% odd. That number has gone up again in the current quarter from INR 1,800 crore to INR 2,500 crore odd. Just wanted to check if you can give that breakup of MTF broken down to MTF and ESOP, because is it function of ESOP which has led to growth? Generally, ESOP activity increases in the fourth quarter. Is it led by typical MTF book and what kind of market share we are enjoying right now? Sanketh, the breakup we have not given, but I will just guide you to the fact that MTF is a substantially larger portion of the MTF plus ESOP combined book, and our market share is at 20%. It was slightly lower than 20% last time. It is now at about 20%. It's at about 20% at this book level of INR 29 billion, which is exact. Actually, just on this, your comment on ESOP- Yeah. What we find is that apart from this quarter end, I think people also wait for prices to come down before they like to actually exercise. Okay. People who are at the expiry date of their ESOP vesting period, they are the ones who go for the March bunching. People who are not in that expiry date typically take advantage of lower market. Actually, market, if you see in the last quarter, was not low. It was on the quite high. Got it. That segment, which is opportunistic segment, was actually missing in the market. Got it. Sanketh, let me just clarify on the market share. Last quarter, the market share was more like 18.5%, which has now moved up slightly to 19.3%. Those are the actual numbers. There is a growth in market share. It is around that mark. Okay. If I can ask a couple of more questions. One more what I had is that, if you look at the fee and commission cost for us, has been substantially going up. It is almost like 250% growth in the fourth quarter, and even from annual point of view, it is almost 200%+ growth. Just want to understand this revenue line. Is it completely variable or it could potentially come, means if the volumes due to some reason dip in next year, this line can also move along with that number? That's one question I had. I also wanted to understand from cost point of view, the employee cost trajectory, because if I look it from full- year point of view, the employee cost grew just by 10% despite a very strong growth in the revenue. Just if you can give a sustainability of that particular number, how it will pan out going ahead? Sure, Sanketh. I'll try to address both of them. Your first question was on fee and commission. Yes, those are variable expenses. There are three businesses which are sitting over there, and all of them have shown good growth. The first one is our corporate finance business, which is our issue management and advisory service business. There, depending on the capital market activities, there could be sub-syndication fees, partner, et cetera, that goes up. There, as Vijay had updated, we have seen almost a 4x growth in revenue. That is one part of variable expense which goes up. The second part of variable expense is linked to our revenue sharing arrangement with ICICI Bank, that also is here. With growth in revenue, we have seen decent growth in revenue from customers. Last year, we have just started this arrangement. This year, the equity broking revenues have also gone up and there is an annualization impact. That has also, again, completely linked to revenue. The third is we have seen good traction in our business partner channel. There also we have seen good growth on a YoY basis, and that is a completely variable cost channel on a percentage of revenue generated. These are the three factors which are leading to the growth. Got it. Mr. Godha, sorry to interrupt, but for any follow-up, may we request you to rejoin the queue, please? I think he had one question. I'll just maybe take and answer that. Your second question was on employee cost trajectory. If you look at for the full- year, I would urge you not to look at quarter-on-quarter. As we explained in the last call, there was a more up-front load of unloaded variable costs in the first half of the year. Overall, we have seen about 23% as a cost-to-income ratio, employee cost-to-income ratio for the year. I would say a sustainable number that we could target, and we have historically been at a 30% cost-to-income ratio in income cost. I would say our sustainable guidance would be somewhere in the range of 25% to maybe 27%, around that on a cost to income ratio could be a sustainable number as of now, as we look at in the immediate term. Obviously, we are continuing to grow the scale digitally and therefore employee cost will become lesser and lesser of a factor. As a guidance, maybe 23%, I will not go ahead and say that is a sustainable number. I would say maybe 25%-27% around that can be a good benchmark. Got it. Thanks. That's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sivakumar K. from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is with regards to the market share in the NSE active customers. It was a very good growth that we got to see within the quarter, and you ended at 16% for March. I just wanted to know as to what is driving this digital sourcing. Is it some marketing spend which you did? Is it some partnership which you did that is leading to this kind of growth? Is this sustainable, in the sense, are you seeing the same traction continuing in April? Yeah. Hi, Siva. Two things. One is what is driving this. We have taken a lot of initiatives that we have been commenting about over the last two, three quarters. It all started with, first of all, having a process which helps the customer open his own account. That itself was a new thing for us vis-a-vis competition. That is one thing that started in the month of April. After that, from April till now, there are a lot of improvements that we have done to make this process very smooth, very easy for the client. Every month we have kept on improving. That is one factor which is helping this process. Secondly, as you rightly said, digital marketing is a new arena for us. We have started investing into digital marketing. Our presence, our website traffic, our number of initiatives that we are taking. We are building new marketing properties on our website. We're trying to attract customers to come and visit our website. Some bit of that start opening accounts. We are also doing a lot of partnerships and tie-ups. Every month we are trying to explore newer partnerships to start exploring tie-ups. Within digital is one channel, but actually that has a nuance of maybe eight, nine different micro channels. Every micro channel, we are trying to push the envelope. Those are some of the initiatives which are helping us. Of course, the brand pull and the propositions like Prime, like Neo, what Vijay spoke about, those are helping in attracting customers, specifically Prime. Neo, we are yet to add into the digital journey. Those are some of the factors. Coming to sustainability, we have moved from a run rate of about 30,000 to, let's say, a run rate of about 100,000. I guess maybe 100,000 is something that we have a kind of test. It's maybe not 3.5 lakh But at least in that sense, a tripling of capacity, definitely not going back to 30,000 or 40,000 a month kind of a run rate is what I believe going forward. In fact, our initiatives are to actually push the envelope higher. Got it, sir. Any new partnerships in the pipeline, sir, like the one you did with Federal Bank? We are in talks with about four or five more partners, various stages. As and when they get finalized, structured, integrated, we will keep announcing. It is an ongoing sort of a story with us. We keep engaging, keep finding partners, and we need not even only be banking partners, it could be even a digital partner. Right. That's an ongoing exercise. Only when it gets finalized and inked is when we will make the announcement. Right. Sir, again, harping back to the market share and derivatives segment. You have talked about it, when the migration happened from 25%-50%, the understanding was that the subsequent migration shouldn't impact your market share because the clients have already moved to the new regime. Why are we seeing this decline in market share in the subsequent migrations? Actually, we told you that one should not expect If you see round one, what was the market share impact, and round two, what is the market share impact, I think it is clearly in a different order, right? The reason why this sort of impact is there even in round two is simply because the mix of intraday to overnight that exists for us as a company is more in favor of intraday in volume sense, right? That's the nature of the proposition. That is why we are impacted a little more than market, albeit by a much, much lower margin in round two compared to round one. The only way to offset it is increase number of customers, increase number of tools to enable the customers, and improve the experience. Increasingly, our focus is moving away from market share because I don't charge you on market share. What will I do by tracking market share? What is important is to track number of customers and number of trades, because my pricing model itself has undergone a change, right, with the launch of Neo. As the migration gets completed and as the growth comes more on that, I think the relevance of derivative market share in, let's say, one year from today will be not. It won't make revenue impact. It will be an interesting number to track without having consequence on revenue. Right. Let me say, direct correlation with revenue. Okay. Sir, your own sense- Mr. Sivakumar? Sir, sorry to interrupt, but for any follow-up, may we request you to rejoin the queue, please? If there is one question, we can finish it, Sivakumar. Sir, just to add on to that, as to what is your own sense of round three and round four, what can be the impact? Again, I don't want to double-guess going forward what is going to happen. See, we are focused on input parameters, sir. We just continue to put our attention on input parameters. Markets will come, markets will go. One quarter, it will impact. We are here for the long haul, sir. Market, we have seen only growth in the long- term. 20 years we have seen this market, it will keep growing. Yes, we will have one, two, three quarters. I don't think we should get very nervous about it. We are here with a solid proposition, solid brand, and solid commitment. Triple S model. Right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. A reminder to the participants, please limit your questions, two per participant. The next question is from the line of Umang Shah from HSBC Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good evening. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good quarter. I just have one question and one data point, which I need. One is, if you could just help us, how cost-effective is our digital sourcing channel vis-a-vis other channels? I mean, is there a bigger arbitrage in terms of the acquisition cost that we spend, which over a period of time, given that we are seeing a sharp shift in terms of the acquisition mix. Does it really impact materially or not? That's what I wanted to understand. Umang, I'll answer the questions in two ways. One, it does not adversely impact. If at all, we expect it to be beneficial. Within that, I would want to caveat it by saying that I would still say it is early days. As I was just explaining earlier, I think Siva asked this question, that within digital, the loosely understood digital channels, there are about 7-8 different micro channels. There are different characteristics of these micro channels, and we are trying to develop all the mix. The mix needs to stabilize. For example, I'll just give you one example to make a point. If a customer looks up on Google ICICIdirect Money and straightaway lands into the website and opens an account, the cost is actually zero. Are we on that stage yet right now in the month of April? No. We are going to get there. That is what our plan is that more and more buzz, more and more digital presence, et cetera, where people can start opening accounts themselves. I would say a bit early, but still, I would say at best, it would be additive and not adverse is what my sense is. In the more medium- term, we will see that the impact of digital sourcing helps bringing down cost. For that to happen, however, we have to be very good in generating what one calls organic traffic. Organic traffic happens when you pump in a fair amount of data into the internet space, and it does not happen overnight. It is a hard-fought effort, sustainable effort that you have to put in, and you will start seeing the impact of that. We are in very early days of seeing the impact of that. As the channel mix shifts from, in the seven micro channels, more and more sourcing coming from organic sources, more and more sourcing coming digitally from partner sources where we are embedded. For example, we are right now working on embedding ourselves inside ICICI Bank digitally. It doesn't exist today, right? Just think of it, ICICI Bank customer on his own comes and starts opening his account with us. It doesn't happen today. He has to be reached out before the account opening happens. As we work with our partners, as we grow our organic channel, as we sort of input more data into the internet space, improve our organic traffic flow, the cost will keep coming down. We have virtually started converting our website into a television after 3:30. Our property works between 9:15 and 3:30 when the markets are active. We are making it work from 3:30- 9:15 by providing huge amount of data. We have started creating lots of digital property, which are educative in nature. Customers love it. If you go to our website on the non-logged in section, you will see virtually every fortnight, you are getting upgraded in terms of content richness that is available, which is attracting customers. There has been a multifold increase in traffic to our website and many of them will start opening accounts, and then the word of mouth starts growing. That is the best way to reduce your cost of acquisition rather than blowing it up on digital advertisement. Right? We are doing digital advertisement. There was a question asked around it. We are doing all of that, but we are also focusing very hard on driving organic traffic, which is the cheapest way of driving organic traffic. Given our head start in form of the brand awareness, unlike startup, I think we will probably take far lower time than any startup to get the organic channels ticking for us. It is still WIP. Understood. That's quite helpful. Sir, my second question is our exit quarter cost to income is obviously the lowest that we have seen in many, many years. How should one look at the cost to income more on a steady state basis? Umang, we have given a direct guidance that 50% was our target cost-income ratio for the next year. We are right now at substantially lower than that. I would say that this 40% quarter should not be seen as a sustainable number. I was just telling this to Sanketh as well. Maybe a bit of our improvement, but we are thinking that it should be definitely lower than 50%. That is a guidance that I can definitely give. I would not say 40% is a sustainable cost to income ratio, not right now. As the scale et cetera builds up, that is what we are working towards, maybe not like FY 2023. Sure. Mr. Shah. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt. For any follow-ups or requests, would you rejoin the queue, please? Sure. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for taking my question and congratulations for a fantastic quarter and a year. I think this year you probably beat consistently all analyst expectations. My questions are as follows. First, I think to an answer to a previous question, you mentioned that cash delivery is about 50% of broking revenues. Did I get that right? Or is it both delivery and intraday put together is 50% closer to slightly more than 50% of revenues? I wanted that as a clarification. Second, what has been the adoption of Neo? I understand you've mentioned it a couple of times that we've not taken it digital as yet. My understanding was that Neo is getting offered to customers and the offtake had increased quite substantially even in January last time when we did the call. It seems that the impact of Neo will be felt only in FY 2022. On a quarter-over-quarter basis, are we seeing an increase in derivative revenues? Given that some portion of our customers have adopted Neo what has been the experience so far in terms of pricing on a blended pricing basis for futures and options? If you could answer these three questions would be great. Thanks. First and foremost, thanks Madhukar for your comments and coming from you the compliments means a lot. Happy to hear your words of compliment. I'll just request Harvinder to come in and respond to your questions on the mix that you asked. Madhukar, I'll clarify. Out of the total, let's say equity broking pool you have equity segment which the nomenclature would mean delivery plus intraday and your derivative segment. Between these two segments are higher than 50%. It's more than majority is tilted towards equity segment. That is the first point. Within the equity segment, which includes delivery plus intraday, delivery is a higher stake, again, substantially higher than 50% within this equity segment. Let me again reiterate. It's not 50%, it's higher than 50% and on both counts. Between derivative as a cohort and equity, delivery plus intraday as a cohort, equity cohort is higher than 50%. Within equity, the delivery segment is higher than the intraday segment. Again, higher than 50%, not 50%. That is the first clarification the bookkeeping clarification that you asked. Second, you said the traction on Neo. Yeah. When I said that Neo is on offer to all clients. It is just that Neo is not seamlessly integrated into the digital journey the way it should be. It is available once the client becomes a customer, it is then offered to him. It is not ingrained as a part of the journey. The real traction we have seen will only happen in giving that whole product in a great experience form ingrained in the journey which as I said is WIP. We have been seeing growth in Neo adoption. Month on month the numbers have been going up, it is still very early days. It is just about 90+ days or so I think since we've launched Neo. It was launched in first 10 days, first week or so of December. It is still early days since we launched Neo. As we move forward your question on how that will impact, I suppose you're alluding to yield as a specific question. To us, we are beyond that yield point because if we become slave to yield, we will be able to do no action. We have gone beyond yield. We have said, let us look at overall product and life cycle-based revenue. If Madhukar is my customer, I have to think of how much revenue I can earn off Madhukar over 15 years, not out of a derivative transaction that he does on 22nd of April. The moment you start thinking of it like this, it doesn't matter so much how much is the yield I'm getting on a per product, per revenue basis. It will be definitely lower than what we are charging. The fact that I have the customer, the fact that I have 50 products to sell him, the fact I have him happy, the fact that I have the ability to deliver more and more of these products is what our endeavor is. That will eventually lead to increase in my overall ARPU, which you are seeing quarter- on- quarter and quarter- on- quarter. Sure. We will continue to put our focus around that. We are not so much fussed about that yield at a per product level. It will be an interesting exercise to do. I request Harvinder to come in. Yeah. Madhukar, absolutely. On derivatives also, the question that you asked was that sequentially, how has the trend been? I would say derivatives from December, so December till March if I take, that has been pretty stable. Okay. Even after launching Neo, we are not seeing any sort of substantial. The volume growth is being able to offset the pricing impact of Neo so far. What would be the- Madhukar, as previous if I tell you, Neo is young and fresh. Adoption is low as of now. I would not straight away right now give that strong sign that full adoption of Neo has happened. Currently, we have not seen the revenue. The absolute revenue has been pretty stable, and it's almost pretty stable for all these four months. Got it. Mr. Ladha, what is the Hello? Hello? Maybe one question. Let him just complete what he's saying. Yeah. Sure. Can you say what is the adoption of Neo so far in your customer base and what would be full adoption? If right now adoption is 7% or 8%, do you see full adoption to be 25% or 30% of your customer base, if you have any thoughts on that? The market intraday volumes is about 80%. Is that substantially different for us? Yeah. Madhukar, currently we have about 60,000 subscribers on Neo. That's the current rate. Market adoption, 80% would not be very different. My sense is that the market number of 80% might have got a bit moderated now with slightly ARPU than delivery. It's very difficult to say because retail contribution of delivery and intraday is not really available in public domain. Our sense is that it might have slightly got moderated. From there, we might be slightly higher on intraday. Not very. Substantially different. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Madhukar. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amey Chheda from Carnelian Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Actually, this is Kunal here. Hello? Yeah. Hi, Kunal. Yeah. Congratulations in the first place for good set of numbers, sir. I don't need to reiterate that. My only question was pertaining to the super client addition that has happened in Q4. You did allude that there are a lot of partners and everything which has kind of resulted in this super number. Just wanted to understand specifically Q4, right? I mean, this digital sourcing has been in place for quite some time. Anything specific you would want to highlight that has kind of changed in this particular quarter which you kind of sustain going ahead? The second question was pertaining to our partnership with Federal Bank for 3-in-1 Account. Just wanted to understand how does the flow work? If I understand correctly, earlier when we used to have 3-in-1 Accounts with ICICI Bank, the flow used to be with the ICICI Bank and we used to not earn any income on that flow. With this Federal Bank, how does that part work? Okay, let me take the second one first. Federal Bank arrangement is identical to ICICI Bank arrangement. Okay. flow is basically not going to be there with us in that case. Yeah. It's identical to ICICI Bank arrangement every which way. We do all our arrangements with any partner on arm's length basis and market basis. There is no difference between what we offer Federal Bank and what we offer ICICI Bank. Great. That's part two of your question. Part 1, I didn't fully get it. You wanted to know what was different in quarter four? What was exactly the question, if you can paraphrase it? What I was trying to understand is that this digital sourcing has been there for quite some time now, but Q4 has seen a drastic jump in the digital sourcing. Is there anything specific you would want to highlight that has worked for us in Q4 and would continue going ahead as well? Yeah. Again, digital sourcing, as I told you, I think I've used the phrase that we are babies in this whole business. We are learning the ropes. In a short period of time, we realized that there are many improvements that we need to do if we have to scale up our digital journey. The tech players who are, the FinTech players rather, who are showing enormous growth have got three, four years of headway, at least, before we launched our digital process. There is a learning curve that we have all gone through. We did not have time, or we do not have time of four years to catch up in that sense, because everyone takes three, four years to fully understand the tricks of the trade and then get going. We have a few quarters. I think we have crossed one big hurdle rate. Actually, this we crossed around Christmas time last month or last quarter. Then we started seeing the traction picking up immediately after Christmas, because we did one very big upgrade in terms of our process experience. That has been continuing thereon. The real impact of all these plans that we offer should start coming when we actually put it on offer. Right now, it is only a simple process that has been put in place, which is helping us. All the digital attraction that we've started doing by building all the properties that I said on the off content, which has increased traffic to our site. I would say it is not just one magical change that has happened which has led to this traction. It has been an effort of, I would say, seven, eight months starting from April onwards that we've been doing, and we've been coming out with newer and newer versions. Even now, we find that there are at least 50 odd improvements that we have to do. These are very small improvements. It's an ongoing improvement. The whole team does not work in a traditional format. We work in a very agile manner. For example, we come out with a campaign at about eight o'clock in the morning. We test it out into the marketplace. By three o'clock, we realize that it is working in certain markets, not working in certain markets. We change the campaign. A new revised campaign goes out. That's the way it actually works. It's a lot of iterative abilities that we have created, real-time understanding of customer sentiment, the impact of the way we are communicating with the customer, taking data, taking input, and then working on it and improving. It's a very iterative process that comes. The whole way of working is very different now compared to how we were working in the past. Great, sir. I'm wishing you all the best, sir. That's it from my side. The rest all has been answered. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anand Laddha from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Hi, Anand. Hi. Sir, most of my question has been answered. Just one data-keeping question I wanted to understand, sir. Is it fair to assume that our subscription revenue now are approximately INR 60 crore-INR 70 crore per annum, and this is what is sustainable going forward, sir? That is fair, Anand. It will be about INR 60 crore per annum type of revenue. This is the amortized value, the INR 60 crore of revenue. We have about 6.5 lakh Prime subscribers. The subscribers are actually growing, Anand. We would actually hope for an increase in this revenue. 6.5 lakh clients is what we have today, and they have been growing roughly at the rate of about 70,000 to 1 lakh clients in a quarter. That has been the rate with growing digital sourcing. We are seeing that Prime adoption also is healthy, hopefully it should go up. It's a sustainable new revenue stream that we have added. Along with this, we have a few other revenue streams in Neo, they are very small. Like Prime is an amortized income. Neo charges could be transaction-led. For example, whatever, depending on various type of transactions, there could be income that we would be accruing in Neo. That is still to build up. Prime is, I think, sustainable and growing actually. Is there a last question, Anand? Sir, seems like we lost the connection for the current participant. We move to the next question from the line of Harshit Toshniwal from Premji Invest. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity and the results. One question, sir. I think we have done phenomenal on the digital customer acquisition this quarter. Can you throw some color on the nature of these customers? More in terms of the ticket size, age profile, trading maturity profile. Because if they are very high value-seeking customers, then our ability and our plans where delivery is chargeable might not attract them in that big way. We have seen a substantial jump in the digital piece. That's the first question. I'll just patch in the second one that, now if I just broadly look at three segments of customers, active traders, passive HNI investors, and maybe mass market youths, investors-cum-trader profiles. For all these three, can you throw some color on what is our strategy in terms of which product fits into which category, and how do we plan to grow these three pieces? Where our strength lies and where do we need to work on? Yeah. In terms of your question around customer profile. If you look at some of the data that we put out, I think close to 70% of our customers are coming from. Millennials and- millennials category and below, in that segment. We are also getting more than 65%, actually, from Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. In terms of ARPU, interestingly, though it is very short period of time, since the bulk of sourcing has happened, the initial trends are that ARPUs are very decent in relation to what we source from ICICI Bank, which was a little bit of a positive surprise to us. I don't want to conclude because it's still just about a quarter or quarter and a half of data. It was looking certainly reflective of that kind of a trend. I would say that just take that as an interesting point and not really as a guidance, because we need to watch it play out, how this plays out in a more medium term. This trend is digital, if I'm not wrong. I'm talking about digital only. Actually, just to make one point, today 100% of our sourcing is digital. Even ICICI Bank sourcing is digital, but it is assisted digital. Yeah. No longer that physical paper moves in our company anymore. Just to make that point. Everything is digital. There are many micro channels of digital now, actually. Just keep it like that, yeah. The reason is that because that customer actually overlaps very prominently with many of the discount brokers, those who can without any assistance open an account. There's a very big overlap, and that's why I was trying to understand that our strategy, which has worked very well in this quarter. Yeah. Our market is very huge, really. The under-penetration in this market, the growth that is happening and needs to happen in this market, I think there is space for more than a few players there. Got it. Yeah. There could be overlaps in the characteristics of these customers who are going there. What they really miss, the newcomers to the market, they want guidance, they want advice, they want to know where to invest. They need knowledge, they need information, they need assistance, they need portfolios. We give them all on our platform. They love it. We are seeing that a large number of people we are getting, for example, on our One Click Investment, which is basically research which are themed Atmanirbhar portfolio, Atmanirbhar Bharat portfolio. We have a best of the mid-cap portfolio, the best of the large-cap portfolio, the Evergreen Dev Anand portfolio, who has sustained the test of ups and downs. These kind of branding and these kind of portfolio construct attract a lot of the millennial kind of a crowd. We are seeing very good and healthy adoption, and that is the way they see that it is differentiated. Some of them who want to trade, they get very attractive MTF charge rate. They don't get it anywhere. There are very unique propositions that we offer, and our way of differentiating through, for the regular investors, the three segments that you spoke about. The regular investors we offer a plethora of, I would say, research-backed portfolios that we offer. We offer, depending on the portfolio size, an RM support/voice support advisor, a person who gives them equity inputs, that support. Those are things which these customers like. That puts us uniquely in that market. When it comes to traders, they like cost to be low, and they like tools to be very cool and easy and accessible on mobile. That's what needs to be done there. We have the proposition. We are building many tools. We have launched, more tools are getting launched. A specific app for traders is also getting launched called Market Wisdom, WIE. We are coming out with a plethora of interventions to attract that segment as well. What is probably lesser appreciated about ICICI is the fact that we have one of the largest wealth platforms in the country. If you look at individuals having a one crore of AUM and above, that segment is now more than 47,000 customers, and the value of AUM with us is about INR 170,000 crore. That segment is a very sort of a fertile and a rich segment for a combination of equity, non-equity and protection products, PMS products, still some products and so on and so forth. It's, I would say, a comprehensive coverage of the younger crowd through a different sets of plans and products. The senior guys with a combination of multi-product approach with most attractive plans. In fact, for the wealth segment, we are very attractive. We are pretty flexible in the way we charge them on broking. These are customized plans made for them. They like all this. That's what is helping us remain competitive in the market. This is solid micro-segmenting that we are doing. Got it. Sure. Thanks a lot, sir. Good day. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arish Aradhna from IIFL. Please go ahead. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah. Hi, Arish. Go ahead. Hi, Harvinder. Congrats on the good set of numbers. I just had a question on how you're looking at volume growth going forward. I think over the last two quarters with the margin norms coming into effect, the industry volume has continued to grow, but ICICI has seen a decline. From these levels, how are you looking at volumes over the medium- term? Yeah. Arish, as we said, in terms of ADTO, et cetera, if you look at it, there are two or three factors. One, obviously, is predicated on growth in number of active customers and also the product mix. On both of these, there are a set of initiatives which we have started seeing some results. For example, if you look at in the derivatives space, as Vijay also mentioned that on the volume, we have seen a bit of a decline. In terms of number of customers, the customer activity, vibrancy, et cetera, those trends have been stable. I spoke about the revenue for derivatives, that has been stable. Going forward, as and when these initiatives start taking shape, and I'll just repeat the initiatives. One, obviously Neo getting scale, activating existing clients, newer tools and newer engagement interfaces. Those are some of the things which should enhance the volume growth. Incrementally, revenue would be more dependent on the vibrancy or the activity, the number of orders, et cetera. Going forward, I think those would be also very important and we are working towards that. That is where you need all these advanced tools, feeders, a good pricing proposition, and a very good mobile interface. Those are some of the things we are putting in place. Sure, Harvinder. Thanks, that answers. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Jain from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening. Thank you. Most of my questions are answered. Just want to clarify on two parts. One in the expenses, there is a fee and commission expense in the BSE filing, which is at INR 47 crore versus INR 13 crore last year. There is an operating expense which is INR 41 crore versus INR 14 last year. Just wanted to understand, what are the factors which drive this expense? Aditya, fee and commission expenses, I kind of alluded to the three factors which represent the growth over here. All are variable and all are linked to revenue. The number one is growth in our corporate finance, which is what we call issuer management and advisory services business. There you have variable fees in terms of sub-syndication, et cetera. That revenue has grown by more than four times. The second aspect is revenue sharing with various partners. That has grown because the equity broking revenue has grown. In that line, both our business partner segment and even for ICICI Bank, we have seen substantial fees. The entire head is actually linked to revenue growth and has grown in line with that. Similarly, if you come to operating expenses, what are a couple of things? You have things which are in the nature of, let's say, transaction charges, custodian, depository, et cetera. Those charges which are growing in line with, again, volume growth. There are variable charges which are linked to customer acquisition, like you have some documentation, scanning, et cetera. Those things are again growing over there in operating expenses. Both of them have a slightly variable nature. Over here, there are one or two elements. One is a one-off in operating expenses, which pertains to customer loss that we had taken on behalf of our customers when we faced a connectivity issue. There, as a gesture, we had taken some loss on our portfolio. That is a one-off sitting here, but primarily, most of the heads are linked to some of these factors. Got you. Since we are just converted to Neo, fees is one time, right? Not recurring, just to confirm. Neo has about six, seven different type of fees. One is a one-time fee, which is about INR 299, which is a conversion charge. After that, there is, for example, an interest that is levied on keeping shares as margin at the rate of about 9%. There are charges for transfer request for funds, there are charges for pledge repairs, et cetera. There is a bouquet of charges. They are incurred on a transaction-by-transaction basis. The one-time fee is, and I think to an earlier question also, the difference between Prime and Neo is that in Prime it's an annual subscription fee and therefore gets amortized. Neo is a conversion fee and one-time, therefore it is upfront taken. The other fees in Neo is as and when the respective transactions occur. We also get a bit of a float in Neo because that's how the product proposition works. That's the bouquet of fees and charges in Neo. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prateek Poddar from Nippon India Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Sir, just a couple of questions. One is, can you just help me understand the loan disbursement? What are our take rates, or how does the business model work over here? In relation to that, I see a 13% market share in ETF distribution. I didn't understand that. ETF is exchange-traded, right? How do you get market share over there? Yeah. Prateek, first of all, on the loan disbursement portfolio. The way the process works is that we have reference from our clients who are intending to take any kind of a loan. We offer now 12 kind of loan products on our portfolio. It ranges from home loan, of course, car loan, vehicle loan, gold loan. A plethora of loan options are there. On some of the loan categories, we have tie-ups with up to 8 different partners. Customers kind of have a reference, and then we kind of act as a bridge between the loan provider and the customer. We earn somewhere in the range of about 75 to 1.25, 1.5, depending on the product, it could vary, but that's the kind of fee that we earn. On the loan amount, right, sir? On the loan amount. On the loan disbursed amount, that's the kind of distribution fee that we earn. ETF distribution market shares. ETF is basically exchange-traded fund. This is something that we are promoting on our website as a passive trend picks up. Basically, on the market volume on our product. Of course, the income that we earn is classified technically as brokerage, but it's almost like a low-cost mutual fund equivalent. That, as a concept, is what we are promoting to our clients. There on market volume, we have a 13% market share. Just to clarify, out of, say, if there are 100 ETFs traded in a day on a particular ETF, you would be 13% of that, right? That is the way to understand. Volumes contributed from IIFL platform would be 13%`. Sorry. Is it in terms of count or value? Yeah. This is volumes, right? Is it value? No, this is value. Okay. Lastly, sir, I'm just going back to the question which Sanketh asked. Honestly, on the equity side, and in this quarter, was there any lumpiness because of these IPOs, or it was business as usual on the delivery side? I understand and I appreciate that the mix has changed, and you have articulated that very well in the last quarter as well as this quarter. I just wanted to understand, has there been some lumpy effect or one-offs because of which there has been a sudden jump in delivery, or it is just in line with the normal market? No, it is largely in line with the market construct. Okay. Great, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best. Congrats on great performance, to be honest. Great performance. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Singhania from ENAM. Please go ahead. Thank you. Congratulations on great results. I have two questions. One on the ICICI relationship. Could you talk about how that's progressing? We see a very steady increase in client additions as well as activation rates. Could you talk about how that's moving ahead and what we can expect in terms of revenues and operating leverage? The second question was, if you could give some flavor on the digital acquisition in terms of the clients, like in terms of revenues, in terms of activation rates, any other metrics that could be different from your ICICI business? Yeah. I'll come in with the ICICI relationship. I think it's needless to say, ICICI is our parent, largest shareholder, and the most important sort of business partner for us. Any partnership, in our view, for it to grow and sustain has to be win-win for both the partners, as well as it should offer together a proposition which is a win to the customer. The reason why we believe that this is a strong partnership and it has moved from strength to strength is because we very carefully nurture each other's interests as we are building this partnership. Let me elaborate what I mean. Through this three-in-one account, we have to ensure that they don't do it because they just happen to have a shareholding in ICICI Securities. They do it because it feeds into their strategy and it adds value to their shareholders. That's why they want to distribute our product. How does that do? Empirically, we have evidence to them that whenever you attach a broking account to a savings account, the float for an active customer, pre and post-attachment and a passage of six months, T+ six months, actually increases on an average by INR 2.5 lakh. Therefore, for ICICI Bank, since increasing customer float CASA is an important part of their core strategy. We have demonstrated to them and they are convinced that this is adding value to their core strategy. That is why it makes sense to ICICI Bank to distribute wholeheartedly ICICI Securities products, because if they have to increase penetration, they have to increase float share, they have to increase stickiness of their customers. They need a proposition to do that. ICICIdirect Money very squarely fits into that proposition. They have realized that when they start segmenting it, particularly with the affluent segment and the wealthier segment and the NRI segment, it adds even more color, even more depth, and even more dimensions to this partnership. That's what they've started doing, particularly of late. In addition to this, we have also incented them in form of a broking payout so that they are encouraged immediately through the revenue share that builds up on activating the client because there is effort in training the team, there is effort that the team has to take in getting the client active by leveraging his relationship. So he gets remunerated for the time that he spends. So we have taken care of the interest of our partner and the people within the partnership so that they are all motivated to drive it. For us, it makes immense sense because we find that this is a very sticky product. A large proportion of our customers have been around for several years. Once they get used to the platform and they draw comfort from the experience of the brand and the comfort of being backed by an institution, they tend to stick on. They know we will keep giving them value as we move along and help them in their journey for adding wealth. For us, it makes a lot of sense because we are getting lifetime value from that customer. For the customer, obviously, he comes to us only because as a combo product, he sees that as something that he's comfortable with, and it is meeting his risk appetite that he has, and it is also meeting his wealth journey. That is how we have looked at, and we look at all partnerships very carefully. It has got to be win-win-win. Even with Federal Bank, it took us agonizing discussions on this for putting this all together. Both the partners are very committed to it. That's how I would say. It's an important partnership, and we continue to see it go from strength to strength. Going forward, I think sharper focus is coming now on digitizing and embedding ourselves into ICICI's portal. Far we have been relationship manager-led acquisition, and we have digitized it through assisted digital, what one can call. That's not truly giving you the power of technology that is possible today. In addition to that, it will make a lot of sense if we embed ourselves into their website, embed ourselves into their mobile app, and allow the customer to choose us on his own as he sort of visits their website, their app. They have a fairly large traffic on their own. That is still WIP and that's something that we are investing on. Going forward, I think the investments are segment-specific and channel-specific, while we continue to do what we are doing. That's as far as ICICI Bank is concerned. You had a second part of the question which is. Growth in the customer traction. Yeah. Right? Aditya, that is what he meant, right? Growth in the customer traction? The second part of the question. The first question was on ICICI, if we see any material operating leverage given that this relationship has strengthened over the last two years. That was relating to ICICI. The second question was on the digital acquisition, if you could give us some flavor on the customer base or is the revenue, if your average ARPU is INR 10,000, the new customers coming through digital, is it substantially lower, higher? How should we see that? Some color on the trading revenue, et cetera? Like I told you, it is only three, four months where some volumes of digital customers have come on to the company while we have been sourcing for the last several months. It is still early days. When we looked at early ARPUs, I think annualized run rate of early ARPUs is actually reflective of what we are getting from an ICICI Bank ARPU. It was comparable. Again, I would say that this is very early trend. I would not sort of leave you with that as a takeaway, but just as a piece of information which we are watching and early trends indicate that. I think like a hawk we are watching quality and seeing ARPUs and activation trends and we are very conscious of quality and that's an integral part of our strategy. Early trends are all right, but as we are scaling up, and the scale-up has been so fast in the last two, three months, we have to give a little bit of seasoning. At least give them at least two, three months of playing in the system before you start understanding the quality, the sustainability, the activation depth, et cetera. I would say that we'll give you a little more, I would say, sharper clarity on this maybe in a quarter from now, where we would have had at least a little more experience of dealing with customers acquired digitally. Early trends are all right, but let's wait. If I may just ask an additional question on this. Would it be fair to assume that this is almost like the same business that a Zerodha or an Upstox would be doing in terms of generating float, et cetera? Yeah, that's right. Digital business model is identical to the way it is structured in a discount broker. The float actually gets captured in ICICI's account. Okay. Any rough number you could share? ICICI Securities account. Yeah, it has crossed multi-hundred crores already. It is three months in now. 300 crores? No, no. It has crossed multi-hundred crores as of now, and it is about three, four months from the launch. From the scale-up, let me put it like that. Launch happened before that, but the scale-up happened in the last four months or so. Right. If I can just squeeze in one question, I know a lot has been spoken about the derivatives market share. I just wanted to understand, the market volumes have not really fallen. In fact, they were at an all-time high in the fourth quarter. Obviously your clients have moved elsewhere. It's not like they've stopped trading. If you could just explain, where have they moved? Why have they moved? Is it just pricing or has your product become inferior because of the change in margin requirements? Let me just elaborate a little bit with an example. Let me assume that you are, as a client, trading with me. Okay? First and foremost, the premise that the clients moved away is incorrect, because actually the number of clients who are doing trading for us are month-on-month hitting lifetime highs. What traded in November was lower than what traded in December. January is higher than November. Sorry, December, February is higher than January, March is higher than February. Every month we are seeing a higher number of customers trading. We have not lost customers and the reason why the volumes have come down but customers have not lost is because of the following reasons. Let us assume that you are a customer trading with us. The extent of leverage that we provide to you, let's say, is INR 95. You put five INR from your side, and we have an INR 100 trade counted in your name against as a volume. Right. Because of the norm, you continue to look for your INR 95, but because the norm says that, okay, if you're putting INR 5 on the table, I will give you only INR 70 from now onwards, because the norms have changed. Either to do INR 100 you have to make your INR 5 INR 8 so that you get INR 90 and then we have a INR 100 trade. You say, "No, no, I have only INR 5 available, whatever I can get out of INR 5, give me that much." You take INR 70 and do a INR 75 trade. Your trade in the pre-regime and the post-regime continues as a customer. Volume in the pre-regime was 100, now it is 70. In the next regime, we say that it is now I give you INR 45 for INR 5. You say, Okay, give me INR 45 for INR 5. I'm doing a INR 50 trade. Volume has fallen in this example in the round 1 from INR 100 to INR 75 to INR 50. Right? You as the customer continue. Right. The reason why our volume fall is that the same customer who was doing INR 100 is now doing with me INR 50. Simultaneously now, what we have done is we have started pricing our product on a per trade basis and not on a volume basis. Earlier we were charging ourselves on volume basis. If you see the new pricing strategy, it is on a trade basis. I am increasingly becoming immune to volume. If you do 1 lakh crore with me, you will pay me INR 20. If you do INR 50,000, you'll pay me INR 20. In the first case, I will say I've got 80% market share. In the second case, I will say I've got 2% market share. In both cases my revenue is INR 20. I'm increasingly becoming immune to, not right now, but over a period of as the traction on Neo growth and embracement of Neo growth, activity is more important than market volume for me, increasingly. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Utsav Gogirwar from Investec. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, I have a question on the wealth management. If you look at FY 2021, the yields on both recurring assets and transactional assets has increased. Seems like we lost the connection for that. Sorry, we lost the connectivity. Yeah. Yes, sir. We move to the next question from the line of Manish from Vallum Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening. Thank you for this very patient conference call, which runs for two hours. Usually conference do end it on a one-hour basis. Thanks again for giving all of this insight to everyone on the call. Sir, I have one question. This is regarding the digital marketing, and I see you have spoken in length about it, but I have very specific questions. This is relative to how much is the influencer marketing in terms of your overall digital acquisition? As I scratch the ground search where there is a 70% passback to the influencers in terms of the revenues, and I'm sure that will go to race to the bottom. Are you also getting into that game, and how your game is different from what your other competitors are doing? Maybe someone is doing for a valuation, but maybe not from the earnings perspective. That is my first question, and what is your broader strategy? My second question is, if the revenues are coming from the digital marketing, which is per se spending on Google and everything, so do you think so that this makes a profitable acquisition? If so or not, maybe how would you respond to that? Thank you, and thanks a lot again. I think great questions and very insightful questions, I must say that. You're very right. You can buy market share in this business. You're absolutely right. Short point, that's the reality of this game. There are a number of players who are doing it for the sake of getting numbers, but we are not here. We are here to do it for getting value. That is why we are very conscious about ensuring that we don't grow for the sake of growing. I want to get quality customers onto the table, and there are enough quality customers, and we will not get swayed by numbers, even if it means that my number story is not playing out in the course of time, I'm okay with that. I don't want to get unnecessary poor quality on the table, and I don't want to land up paying too much of a high cost. I think these are two very strong sentiments and boundary conditions with which we are operating and we are doing this business. That said, your very specific question on how much is the contribution of influencer marketing, almost nothing at this point in time. We are in discussions with some of them, but I don't think we have started engaging with any one of them with any serious impact on the sourcing that has happened so far. Our method of engagement is one time. We are not here as a partnership. Our method is that there is a cost of acquisition, and also, unlike the other players, we do not pay out unless and until there is a proper quality parameters that are met. People really struggle to deal with us on quality parameters. If it means that I cut partners who are of that nature or alliances of that nature, we cut alliances of that nature. We will do that, and we are doing that. The moment we find that there is any kind of weakness in terms of quality, we will cut out that partner because it is not number, it is quality that we lay out. This game we have learnt very early on, because we played this game for a long enough period of time. That's one part of it. Your digital cost of acquisition, I would say, what is most important is that once you get a right customer, you keep him happy. There is a lifetime of monetization that you can do. That monetization, I would say, acquisition cost is inconsequential in the context of the revenue that you can earn from an active customer. It's important to get the active customer and get the right customer, and it's okay to pay what we are paying just now. More than comfortable to pay. I'm happy to even increase my cost of acquisition, because the quality of earnings that I can do in a period of time from that customer will more than offset the cost of acquisition. It needs a lot of them. The problem will come if you go and acquire a customer which is a dud customer. That is where it will start hurting us. What should be a break even of a digital customer? How would you model it today? It is in less than a year, in fact, and the mix is actually improving and becoming more efficient. I mean, that's the short answer I will give. Yeah, it is much less than a year. Much less than a Much less than a year. Not even a year. A year is long. Much less than a year. My last question is regarding the float income, which you said that maybe the float income accrues to the ICICI Bank, and in case of digital, it accrues to you. I just wanted to understand that who gains the interest on float income in terms of overall scheme of things from your consolidated business, where does float income floats in? No. In the ICICI Bank partnership model, the float remains with ICICI Bank. Yes. Right? They are the beneficiaries of the float. Yes. The digital acquisition model, whatever float is there, it comes to the broker's pool account. We are the beneficiary of the float. Does ICICI pay you anything for the float income, what they generate? No. Why should ICICI pay me anything? No, we have nothing to do with that. No, I acquire the customer digitally, and the customer parks float with our account. We use that account as a company float, and we are deployed in treasury instruments. That's how we earn. It is part of our treasury pool after that, once it comes into my account. No, I thought maybe there can be some sharing of income from the float income from the ICICI Bank to you, which is not the case. Not a problem. No. For ICICI Bank customer, its float is with ICICI Bank. Thank you. Thanks once again for this very kind, elaborate answers. Thank you. Thanks, Manish. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from Piran Engineer from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. Congrats on the quarter. Most of my questions are answered. I just have a couple of ones. Firstly, not really related to the quarter. Firstly, do you foresee a risk over the next few years of the mutual fund distribution business going the retail broking way, with continued pressure on yields? With Zerodha offering that Coin platform, direct mutual funds, and same thing with Paytm. Our yield has been stable at 60, 65 basis points. Is there any risk of that over the medium term, according to you? Yeah. It's a great question, Piran. Basically, the way we are modeling in our head is, we do believe that it is not an ignorable trend. I would not ignore the impact that the direct funds are having in the marketplace. Therefore, we have put in place an approach or a strategy to counter it. Let me quickly tell you how are we thinking of countering it. There are broadly two vectors to this trend. One vector revolves around differentiating vis-à-vis a direct plan offeror in proposition we can offer. First, we get into a model of offering him through a very cool app, which we have recently launched, called the Money App. We've seen good downloads, good engagement of customers, and we started seeing traction of customers getting acquired to the Money App. Now we are adding an eATM service. Fundamentally, how it will differentiate vis-a-vis, let's say, a direct plan is that in the middle of the night, you have an emergency and you want INR 300,000, you can actually redeem your funds instantly and take INR 300,000 off your ATM in the middle of the night and use it for whatever emergency you have. That is not possible today in a direct plan. That's a comfort that we want to offer to our customers at a price. Every time you use it, you pay. If you don't use it, don't pay. The fact that you have an eATM service is a differentiator. The second is actually, increasingly, we are moving to creating a research basket. That's something that we find is not really there in direct plans. The third element we are adding is an instant loan facility with a banking partner who will, if the customer faces an emergency, he could ever use it. Instant liquidity and a research basket. That's one major strategy. The second leg of our strategy is that we are looking to promote passive funds because you can get passive funds that are cheaper than ETF, Exchange Traded Fund, and it is linked to a distribution fund. I think our strategy there is to promote that as an MF-style product and not really as an equity-style product. Mix it up with a combination of passive-active combos which is uniquely available. Basically, we are putting research to work, we are putting access and convenience to work, and we are putting liquidity to work to try and differentiate. Whether we will succeed, we will not succeed, I don't know, but this is the approach we are taking. Okay, got it. That's quite an elaborate answer. My second question is, I just wanted to understand bottom-up, what is the average DP holding amount a client has in his portfolio? Is it very different for a new customer versus your vintage customers? What percentage of your customers also have a Demat account with another broker? Is that something you can track, and if so? Yeah. Let me start with all your various points. First one, 100% of our customers have got Demat accounts only with ICICI. We don't offer that. Oh, sorry. I meant trading account with another broker. Meaning a Demat account with me and a trading account with somebody else? No. Okay. I mean, he's got a trading account with you and, let's say, Zerodha. That will be difficult to track, Piran. That I don't have that data. We have not organized data to kind of track that. Okay. Obviously, that's quite intuitive of the first question that you asked. With vintage, our holding of our customers do go up, revenues go up. Within segments also, the average holding is very different. For example, if you look at the wealth segment, the average would be about INR 3.5-4 crores. I mean, we have over INR 1.7 trillion and we have about 47,000 customers. For a new guy, it will be low. It will get built up over the period with vintage, it increases. All your questions, the answer is yes. That is how it happens. No, what I wanted to understand is what is the quantum of deposits. The reason I'm simply asking. Quantum of deposit you're saying? You said quantum of Demat. No. The quantum of DP holdings. Demat, yes. Is it on an average INR 3 lakh, INR 4 lakh or is it on an average INR 20 lakh, INR 25 lakh? I'm just running some bottom-up math here and for a young customer, a millennial to sort of generate the same ARPU of INR 10,000, he has to have about INR 10 lakh, INR 12 lakh in his account. It's hard for me to imagine a 25, 27-year-old having such a large DP holding. I just wanted to get from you on a bottom-up basis, say a new customer joins you or has joined one or two years back, what's the average quantum of DP holding? You're talking about average quantum for our portfolio or of a segment which has just joined us? Which has just joined you. No. Just joined us is three, four months, five months old customer. No. Yes. That will be difficult, Piran because- We'll have to wait for some time. Yeah. If you look at on an average, you can divide that to INR 380,000. You take out INR 170,000 which is in about roughly INR 48,000. Let's say INR 50,000. That leaves you with about INR 2 lakh crores. About INR 2 lakh crores divided by the entire Demat balances, which is approximately 3 million out of that 5 million. You divide 3 million or 2.9 million. INR 2.9 million let's say INR 2.9 million with INR 200,000 crore and you will get an average number. Okay, got it. Piran, actually, the DP holding has, I mean, it will not be one is to one correlated with revenue. I'll give you an example. If he's a heavy trader, it is quite possible that he has a very high trading volume but he may not have DP assets. A long-term investor may have a lot of DP assets but he may churn only once in three years. It's a combination of all that. I think what is more important for us is that a customer is giving the assets to us and over a period of time consistently. There is some sort of revenue that we are able to generate or not. If you look at and we have put out the disclosure, over the last four, five years, the way the assets have grown, if you take all the retail revenue that we have and divide it by assets, broadly in the range of 50, 60, 70 basis points, that is the kind of earning we are able to get from the assets. Sometimes the customer will go into mutual funds, sometimes he may choose to have an equity churn portfolio, sometimes he may take MTF and so on, so forth. By various things and that's more important to us. Okay. Got it. That's all from my end. Just one suggestion, if you don't mind. If you can keep the gap between declaring results and the con call of maybe two and a half hours, that would really help. Yeah us in sort of putting down the numbers in our model, analyzing and then just preparing for the con call. No, I think today. I think the gap of one hour is enough. Normally we won't do this. It was more one-off, I think, considering today was a market holiday. Otherwise, we will be obviously faster than this. This was the first time we did it so late, actually. Okay, sure. That's it. Thank you, and all the best to you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritika Dua from Ocean Dial. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, and congratulations on the quarter and the year. Sir, more clarifications than really questions. One is that how do we account for the revenue sharing arrangement which we have with ICICI Bank, and what is the revenue share agreement with Federal? I'm sorry, I think somebody asked, but I missed the answer. The second bit is trying to understand that haven't any mitigating strategies that we thought at the start of the margin when it was to be applicable about the pledging or maybe in terms of the DP holdings or some other strategies. How have they fared? These are my two questions. Yeah. Just to tell you wanted to understand the sharing model of Federal Bank and ICICI Bank? Yeah. Model for Federal and the accounting for ICICI Bank. Yeah, it is identical. There is no difference between Federal Bank and the ICICI Bank model. It's identical. 35 year one, 25% year two of all the broking revenue. Ritika, from the accounting perspective, it is as and when the revenue gets accrued. If there's a brokerage revenue for a particular month, 35% of that is what we will account and charge to the expense. It is on accrual basis it is charged off to the expense. Sure. Your second point is with respect to. Mitigants that we put. mitigants that we put, I think, yeah, the mitigants are playing out. Obviously, it is not compensating for the volume decline. Those mitigants have been put in place, what we spoke. If you want volume growth, volume growth is not going to happen rapidly. It is going to be a more sort of effort-led investment approach to regaining volume. While we are doing that, increasingly, volumes are becoming less revenue connected. It is more activity-based revenue connected. Sure, sir. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Darshan Engineer from Karma Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah, good evening, sir. Thanks for the detailed explanation for each and everything. Can you hear me? Yeah. Please go ahead. Thank you. Yeah. First of all, a suggestion. Sir, you come out with detailed presentations and you also come out with detailed results. It would be great if you can cut down on your opening remarks and directly jump to the Q&A. That will save a lot of time for you as well as everyone else. Thank you. Yeah, we'll do that. Next time, no narratives, only straight Q&A. Yeah, because everything is given out in the presentation anyway. Yeah. Most of the questions have been answered by learned colleagues across the industry. I would come to one interesting observation, which was seen recently. You saw there was a data security breach in case of a prominent digital broker recently. Despite that, you continue to see robust addition in terms of client additions and they are doing a lot of heavy advertising. Where are we placed in terms of security architecture and what can we try to do to ensure that we do not face any such thing? Maybe it will not have an immediate impact, but I think such kind of security incident can be leveraged positively by us to gain further market share in new client additions and other areas. Thank you. Absolutely. It's a great point, great question, and great suggestions, I must say. I think we will certainly take many of what you just said on board. The point on cyber risks, we see this as a number one risk for our business. Business continuity, business stability, and risks associated with cyber security. I think these are massive areas of investment for us. Here we work very closely with ICICI Bank because for us, in addition to SEBI, we also in a way are connected with Reserve Bank of India through the ICICI Bank sort of connectivity, and we are so integrated in form of having a 3-in-1 Account, et cetera, that the standards of cyber risks are actually matching with what we have in a bank. It is not now, it is historical. We therefore invest heavily and take the subject very seriously. Whenever there is an incident of this nature anywhere in the world, there is a discussion that we do in our committee to understand what went wrong, what is the learning, what is the correction that we need to take as a company. That is how we treat issues of cyber risk. We certainly believe this is a game of trust and cyber breaches are big trust breakers. That said, one needs to also recognize that no one operating in today's world can say that they have completely mitigated the risks associated with cyber. The best of the people are getting impacted by cyber breaches. To that extent, it is as good as yesterday. That's how we at least look at it, and we have to be on our toes all the time and vigilant all the time. We have to invest in tools, stay cutting edge, and employ a bunch of people who do the ethical stuff around cybersecurity, which we do. That is an area of importance. It's an area that virtually matches what we do at ICICI Bank, which has got to meet the RBI expectations. The fact that we do continuous reviews to see whether any learnings are done out of any incident anywhere in the world is the way we look at it. That said, I would say that we haven't made any frontal, what should I say, approach whenever there has been such an incident. It's happened more than once. You've seen one incident which happened a few quarters back, that eventually got rolled out through the regulatory process, then the recent incident that happened in the industry. I think these are very unfortunate incidents. For the industry, it is not good. Specifically not just for the individual player, but for the industry it is not good. Our approach is not to do any frontal sort of. We believe that we remain safe, we remain good, and grow customers in an ethical and a fair manner, which is what we are endeavoring to do. Sure. Thanks for that. One last question from my side. You have improved on your monthly client addition, the industry has also ramped up. For example, one more recently listed entity has done very good client addition. You know whom I'm referring to. Obviously we are also looking at the angle of quality of customer while doing our addition. We are not just trying to play the numbers game. Nevertheless, where do you think we can go towards any aspirational number that you have? I am clearly sure that considering your size and scale, 1.45 lakhs, say in March, is not the run rate that you would be satisfied with. I'm sure it can be much more. What would be your ideal range, if at all, I may put it that way? I think to begin with right now, we are waiting for things to sort of stabilize. We are constantly juggling with the micro channel mix that we spoke about in the earlier part of the call. The moment we find that somebody is gaining us on quality, we actually mute that micro channel. We have taken that call that let's mute that micro channel and grow and work the harder way and get the right segment of customers. I think we are getting that configuration stabilized to begin with and then press the pedal from there. In terms of numbers, I think we'll be happy if we lead industry growth rather than really talking about a specific number. I think as an aspiration, if the industry is growing at 10%, we should be growing at a faster rate than 10%. That is what I'm trying to say on a month-on-month basis. Sure. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Harshvardhan Agrawal from Infina Finance. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. On the wealth management part, just had a couple of queries there. One was, I wanted to understand this AUM that we talk about of INR 1.7 trillion, is there some overlap with the wealth management AUM for the bank? Secondly, the income that we get from the wealth management, which is that INR 160 crore per quarter, where is that accounted in our P&L? Yeah. Yeah. I'll take the second one first. The revenue of wealth management gets accounted in the respective line items in P&L. P&L is a very product or an income type like representation. Brokerage income from our wealth clients will go and sit in the brokerage income line. Income from services will carry distribution income of our wealth management clients. Interest income will again carry the MTF, ESOP, et cetera, interest that they're generating from the wealth management. Wealth management is a segment. It's a customer segment representation of our business. These 47,000 customers, they have given us INR 168 crores of revenue, and what has been the traction, that is what we want to show, and we manage it very differently. That is the second question. On the first question, whether the assets that we have, INR 1.7 trillion, whether there will be an overlap with bank. See, these assets are of our customers who have an ICICIdirect account, and they have given us Demat assets and bought mutual funds. For example, it is quite possible that the same customer could have purchased a mutual fund through ICICI Bank as well. That will reflect in the ICICI Bank kitty, the distribution products, all the FDs or loans, whatever he has taken. Whatever has got distributed through us will appear in our kitty. The DP is technically with ICICI Bank as a service provider, but it is ICICI Securities product which is attracting. The engagement, the relationship, the portfolio is all with ICICI Securities. To that extent, it would be different. Right. Sir, just one last thing on this part is, what is classified as recurring asset and what is a transaction asset under wealth? Recurring asset would be anything which by having the asset with us, we will keep on earning revenue. Mutual fund would be a classic example, or a PMS or an AIF. Anything where if assets are lying with you will keep on earning income, but no transaction is required for you to earn income. Transactional asset on the other side, an example could be Demat asset. In Demat asset, you may have DP holdings, but if you are not transacting, I will not get any revenue. The revenue basis is a transaction. In recurring income, the revenue basis is asset being with us. sir, any income that we get from MTF or ESOP would be under transactional revenue. Is that understanding correct? No. That will be recurring because MTF and ESOP, till the time the loan is outstanding, we will keep on generating the interest income. Just to understand an MTF transaction, a customer will take, let's say, an INR 10 lakh position as an MTF. He will pay a brokerage for the INR 10 lakh position. He will pay interest rate for, let's say, one month if he's keeping it, and when he's squaring off the position, he'll again pay brokerage. The two brokerages will be transactional income, but the interest income is recurring, because as long as INR 10 lakh position is open, I will keep on earning the revenue. Right, sir. That is it. Sure. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. Thank you so much. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot for supporting us. Thanks a lot for coming in in large numbers and asking various questions. We really appreciate the time you spent with us. Good day, good night. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.