Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings call of ICICI Securities Limited for the quarter ending June 30, 2021. We have with us today on the call Mr. Vijay Chandok, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Ajay Saraf, Executive Director; Mr. Harvinder Jaspal, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Vishal Gulechha, Head Retail Equities; Mr. Kedar Deshpande, Head Retail Distribution Products and Services Group; Mr. Anupam Guha, Head Private Wealth Management; Mr. Subhash Kelkar, Chief Technology and Digital Officer; Mr. Ketan Karkhanis, Head Retail Distribution Business; and Mr. Prasannan Keshavan, Head Operations. For the duration of this presentation, all participants' lines will be in listen-only mode. I'll be standing by for the Q&A session. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. The business presentation can be found on company's corporate website, icicisecurities.com, under Investor Relations. I would now like to call Mr. Chandok and take over the proceedings. Yeah. Thank you very much. Good morning to all of you. Welcome to ICICI Securities' first quarter earnings call for fiscal 2022. I trust all of you, your near and dear ones, and your family members are safe and healthy. I hope it remains that way as we emerge from the impact of the second wave of the pandemic. I'm sure that by now you would have already perused our quarter one results and the presentation which has been uploaded. Before we get into the Q&A that you may have, I would like to share with you a few observations and insights that we believe are relevant to our industry. The first thing that we're observing in the current context, and it is pretty clear now, is that the pandemic has front-loaded the opportunity for the industry. I think it's pretty clear. The second point we are seeing is that the market is clearly consolidating in favor of larger and digital players. We are also observing that pricing in this business is increasingly becoming commoditized. Experiences, features, personalization, relationships, and value-added services that facilitate the customer in their wealth creation and wealth preservation journey are becoming important differentiators. One has also observed that the market is segmented, sub-segmented, and micro-segmented, ranging from the young Gen Z and millennial investor to Gen X and the baby boomers. The needs of each of these segments, sub-segments, and micro-segments are different. Most companies are treating all customers alike by focusing on low-cost execution. What we believe these customers need is low-cost personalization. Emerging winning companies, we believe, will need to increasingly demonstrate these capabilities. We are also clearly observing behavior shifts across age segments towards the use of digital methods of account opening and digital methods of transacting. We are increasingly convinced that the growth in new Demat accounts that we are seeing in the industry is not merely triggered by a combination of factors arising out of pandemic-related developments that we've spoken about in the past, but signals a structural shift: the emergence of a new generation of investors, Gen Z. These investors are digital natives and are coming to the market in large numbers. Demographic data seems to suggest that the population of this segment of newcomers is going to be significant for the next several years. It is important, therefore, for companies to recognize and harness this opportunity in a format that fits the sensibilities and preferences of this segment. We have also observed that value creation in our industry will require a demonstration of operating leverage and the ability to monetize the lifetime value of customers through a full range of products and services delivered digitally at low cost in a personalized manner, rather than having a narrow focus on product and product-related needs. Our business at ICICI Securities has demonstrated secular growth. I'll repeat. Our business has demonstrated secular growth over the last decade if you view it from a window of three-year blocks. It is important for a company in this industry to not just focus on the visible part of technology. This is the technology that faces the customer in the form of easy journeys and interfaces. It's also important to focus on the invisible technology. This is the stuff that provides cybersecurity, privacy, flexibility, scalability, salience, response time, reliability, and uptime in a business like ours, which is a business of trust. Companies will need to invest in both these aspects of technology on an ongoing and very active basis. We, as a company, have focused and will continue to focus on all these aspects and nuances that I just spoke about as we transform ICICI Direct into a platform play straddling three important segments of the financial services landscape, namely, savings and investments and wealth, insurance, and distribution of loan products, thereby enabling us to monetize value across customers' life stages. I'm going to conclude my opening comments and throw it open for Q&A. Thank you. Thank you very much. The first question is from the line of Kashyap Javeri from Emkay Investment Managers Ltd. Please go ahead. Am I audible, sir? Yes. Thank you so much, sir. Congratulations on a great set of numbers for Q1 FY 2022. I have a few questions. The first one is more of an observation. In our presentation, regarding the revenue breakup, which is given business segment-wise, I keep seeing numbers changing for the preceding quarters in subsequent quarters. For example, this quarter, we have given a breakup of retail broking, Prime, and the ESOP and MTF-related book. The same breakup in Q1 of last year was slightly different. Is there any reason or any reclassification that would have happened for the same quarter last year? This has been an observation across the last two or three quarters, actually; it keeps changing. That's the first question. The second question is also more like a clarification. When you say that wealth management income is about INR 182 crore, which segment is it included in? Is it net of expenses? The third question is, in terms of declining distribution revenue, is that purely seasonal in nature, or was there also a one-off in the fourth quarter of last year? The fourth question is, we have seen a sharp dip in average revenue per client. Would this be more like a quarter-end phenomenon because we have added a significant number of clients, so the opening and closing number of clients has about a 16%-17% difference on a quarter-over-quarter basis? Otherwise, what would be the daily average, or let's say, based on the number that you would have on a daily basis, revenue per client versus the fourth quarter of last year? Yeah. Hi, Kashyap. Harvinder Jaspal here. Let me take on a couple of the initial questions that you asked for. First is about reclassification. During the year, we have launched Neo as a proposition. Earlier, our allied income strategy had Prime, MTF, and ESOP. These were the three elements. What has happened is after Neo, there are a couple of other charges which have started coming from a bouquet of seven or eight different charges. We have not differentiated that. We have just clubbed the Prime and other charges into one cohort. That is where you are seeing. I'll be happy to connect offline and give you any clarification that you have on a quarter-over-quarter basis. That is the primary reason for the first question. The second question that you asked was whether private wealth management revenue of INR 182 crores is revenue or PAT. It is revenue, that's point number 1. Point number 2, this is the revenue from all our wealth clients, which we define as every client who has more than INR 10 million of assets through us. These clients are roughly about 60,000 clients. The aggregate revenue from these clients, including equity broking, mutual funds, PMS, and whatever products they consume from our platform, totals INR 182 crores. If you go by the P&L line route, this would be sitting in the respective line item. The brokerage income from wealth clients will be sitting in the brokerage line item, the interest income would be sitting, and so on and so forth. It will be sitting in the respective one. This disclosure is aimed to say that at the top end of our pyramid, there are 60,000 clients which in aggregate are giving this kind of a revenue and how is the traction. This is our wealth management business, and it is an aggregate of all the different lines. This was the second question you asked. Regarding the third question about distribution income, you are seeing a seasonal dip in distribution versus Q4. Yes, there are a few elements that have a bit of seasonality. That is, let's say, insurance, which is, as we know, more seasonal towards Q4. Some of the loan products have had good business in the last quarter due to seasonality and lockdown, for two reasons. Things like insurance, etc., have seasonality. You will always see Q4 to Q1 would be of a different order. Some of the products have been impacted by lockdown, for example, loans, because clients were a bit hesitant in this period, and wealth products. These are the two categories that have seen some impact from the lockdown. On a YOY basis, as you have noted, there is a growth of about 51%. One more question you also asked was about average revenue. Yes, from last year to this year, there has been almost a 3x scale-up in the number of clients that we have started acquiring. These clients have not yet completed their full 12 months to generate revenue, and these clients are also, as we have discussed in earlier calls, younger, coming from Tier 2 and 3 cities. As part of our strategy, we have started acquiring clients earlier in their journey. A combination of all of this, plus the fact that, yes, clients have grown and they haven't completed the full 12 months, are the factors that have contributed. Daily average. So would you be able to- The last question was the daily average revenues. Okay, Mark, without any specific disclosure on daily average revenue, it is very easy to calculate across product lines because we have, for example, INR 350 crores in broking income. Typically, there are 60, 65 days in a quarter. Actually, let me put it differently. When I'm saying that there is a dip in the average revenue per client, what we as an analyst would do is that we would divide that INR 352 crores, divided by the average of 1.58 and 1.85, which is the opening and closing active clients, which might give a slightly distorted figure. Yeah. That, Kashyap, would not be the correct way. Ideally, what we must do is this comparison on March numbers, because in March, you have 12-month trading clients, so the revenue is also for 12 months and the clients are also for 12 months. The way you are doing it, you're taking revenue for 3 months, but you're taking the active clients of 12 months. Somebody would have given us revenue in, let's say, Q4, Q3, and Q2 of last year. That revenue is not there in the denominator, but all those clients have come into this. Ideally, we should do it as of March end, because then the numerator and denominator would be consistent. Thank you very much. Sorry to interrupt you, Kashyap. I will request to come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. A request to all the participants. Please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permits, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Aditya Kondawar from JST Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Sir, I just have 1 question, and it's a qualitative one. In recent times, we have heard about the Paytm IPO, right? Paytm has close to 115 million annual transacting users. They have 21 million merchants, and they have spoken about insurtech, wealthtech, and broking in a big way in the DRHP. Not just Paytm, but other fintech that have come up in the landscape in the last 5 to 10 years. Given all of that, what are your thoughts on the competitive landscape right now and how it will pan out, and how is ICICI Securities navigating all of this? Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yes, indeed. This is a competitive sector, a competitive industry. It has been competitive in the past. There have been more than a hundred brokers in the industry historically. It's just that the nature of the industry is shifting from physicality to digitality. Yes, competition is there. We have been facing digital competition, and I'm sure we are bracing ourselves to continue to face digital competition going forward, all the names that you mentioned, and a few others as well. It is really for us to keep differentiating and adding value to customers' lives to stay ahead. We are very cognizant of the fact that there is no ticket to win unless and until you're adding value to customers' lives, and that is our endeavor. I think as an incumbent player, we share deep insights and a deep, what should I say, understanding of what is required by the customer to feel satisfied in this industry. It is that insight and knowledge that we are putting to use in a cost-effective manner for the customer. We will continue to keep doing this, not to wish away competition at all. Competition has been there, it is there, and it will continue to probably intensify going forward. Sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Alpesh from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Congrats on the great set of numbers. Alpesh, sorry to interrupt you. May I request you to speak little louder, please? Good morning, Alpesh, over to you. Can you hear me now? Yeah, better. Yeah, great. Congrats on the great set of numbers. I just have three questions. First, after the implementation of Phase 3 of margin norms, what was the impact on revenues in June? Last time you gave some qualitative comments related to the impact in March. The same thing, if you can just shed some light for June and July. Secondly, how do we see employee expenses relative to the top line for this year? Last year it was around 23%, and you just got ICB at around 20%. Any ballpark number that you would like to work with for FY 2022? Lastly, are you seeing any change in the customer acquisition cost? One of the competitors mentioned that there has been a drastic reduction in new customer acquisition because of the digital initiatives. Are we also seeing that and is it leading to a lower break-even period for the new customers that are being acquired? One of the competitors is talking about 3, 4 months. Where are we standing on that front? Thank you. Yeah. Hi, Alpesh. This is Harvinder here. Your first question was with respect to market share. phase III norm. phase C norm. If you refer what we have said- I saw Harvinder Jaspal, I saw the market share. I'm just talking about the absolute revenues. Market share I can see, but any change? Last time you mentioned that in March, the overall revenues were down only 1% from February. Are you also seeing that in June this time around? June, there has been negligible impact actually. Yeah. It is a similar trend, Alpesh. What we had said that time also was that the margin norms even in the first phase impacted volume but did not impact revenue. The same trend continues for the phase 2 and phase 3 as well, and market share impact we have already given. Actually, market share impact was not negligible in phase three. In derivatives, if you'll see, there is a slight uptick. Slight improvement. There is slight improvement, yeah. Understood. Yeah. A level playing field has happened after Phase 2. Between Phase 2, Phase 3, and then going forward to Phase 4, we are all on a level playing field. Relative market share will be... I think people should be indifferent to margin norms. It will be more about what you do. Okay. There is some chatter in the market related to SEBI relaxing these margin norms. Are you also of that camp, or is there any discussion with the regulators on this front? To the best of my understanding, till we hear from the regulators, this is what it is and we are gearing up for this regime. Okay, great. The second question on the employee expenses, Arvinder. Alpesh, just to add on. This is Vishal here. I'm Vishal. Yeah, Vishal. Hi. Look after the institutional customers. There are two ways of looking at it. One is the impact on market share, and two is the impact on the number of customers. Because now the focus is entirely on how many more customers you have who can give you a full margin kind of thing. I think June was when Phase 3 was implemented, and the number of active customers in this segment exceeded any previous month right from November 2020, which was the last month of the earlier regime. December 1st of Phase 1 was implemented, subsequently Phase 2 and Phase 3. June was Phase 3, and in June, we recorded a significant rise in the number of unique derivatives customers. We have covered market share anyway. Yeah. Harvinder Jaspal, on the employee expenses side please. Yes. Your second question, Alpesh, was with respect to employee cost. As we had guided last time, between H1 and H2 there was a front-loading of employee variable expenses last year. The way to look at it is to take the full-year wage cost-to-income ratio, as you rightly said. For Q1 also, we are looking at about 22.5%-23%. My guidance would continue to be about 23%-25%, down from about 31%-32% for FY 2020. Just to recap the numbers, FY 2020 we were at about 31%-32%. 23 in FY 2021. Yes. Slightly down right now to, Pratik in Q1. Guidance would continue to be between 23%-25%. No, because I was a bit confused. Last quarter, you did front-loading of employee expenses, and this time around, the employee expenses to top line is around 20-21%. Could that number, 22-23%, come down to 20-21% for FY 2022? I'm just trying to understand that. No. Alpesh, yes. You are seeing that because of a bit of front-loading last year and a more level this year. Effort always would be to have enhanced operating leverage. We are focusing on productivity. Just still as a guidance, I would still want to keep it at 23%-25% level on a consolidated side. Perfect. Just the last question on that customer acquisition cost and the breakeven period. Thank you. Yes. Your third question was customer acquisition cost. Of course, we are also seeing the benefit of scale. The cost of acquisition overall is coming down. We are not yet at a 3 to 4-month payback period that you are talking about for competitors. We are getting there; we are getting better. With scale and the mix that we are focusing on, that is the endeavor: to kind of reduce cost, improve leverage, and definitely over the lifetime to CAC, I mean, it is always a very positive equation. That's the nature of the platform. Even for a 1-year payback, we are getting there. Would you be comfortable sharing the absolute number of customer acquisition costs? The competition is between INR 800-INR 900. Would you be way off? Alpesh, kindly bear with us. We are roughly six months into the journey of effective scale-up, as you would have observed. Every month it changes. You might actually get confused, and it is improving. We'll just let it stabilize to a point before we start sharing. Shortly, we will start sharing because it should be when things are more stable. Perfect. Great. Thanks, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A request to all the participants. Please restrict to 2 questions per participant. If time permits, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Nidhesh Jain from Investec. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Firstly, on the Neo platform, how many customers do we have today on the Neo platform? Yeah. Hi, Nidhesh. This is Vishal. You would have seen our customer communication two days back when we crossed the 100,000 Neo subscriptions. We are now in the upward of 100,000. Neo is at about 100,000+, and INR 7.5 lakhs would be Prime. We have added almost 4 lakh customers in this quarter. It seems like most of the customers are being acquired on the old pricing only. Neo is a very, very small sub-segment of these 4 lakh customers. Yeah. Why is that the case? I believe that Neo is a much better acquisition tool or much better pricing, so customer ideally should choose Neo when he's opening an account. Hi, Nidhesh. Harvinder here. Two quick reasons for that, Nidhesh. First of all, Neo is a proposition for trading clients. Now, if you look at the market, the way the number of customers is split between, let's say, investing clients and trading clients, it is roughly—there's no formal number, but roughly 80/20, 85/15—and these are the numbers that people cite for the industry. You have one trading client for about 5-6 investing clients. Therefore, that would be one reason. Secondly, as we discussed very briefly in the last call, Neo was added to the digital account opening journey very recently, this quarter. It was earlier not a part of the account opening journey. It was communicated— It is just a matter of few weeks back when we added Neo in the account opening journey. Earlier, the journey was that the company offers after becoming a customer. There's always a lag. That has now become real time, a couple of weeks back when we launched it. The Neo traction through a digital sourcing at the time of acquisition is already picking up from this period onwards. Sure. Secondly, if we look at our broking revenue, more than 50% of the revenue comes from equity delivery or cash intraday. While if you look at the way the sector has been heading, that sort of revenue pool has been completely disrupted. Since we have a very sticky client base, we have been able to demonstrate that more than 60% of revenue has been coming from clients whom we onboarded five years back. On an incremental basis, what gives us confidence that we will be able to hold on to that revenue pool? First and foremost, I think we had given out directional guidance that we want to move to a clear lifetime value and move away from a product-centric, single product-centric focus. As a guidance, therefore, we had also given that we will get the proportion of broking revenue as a percentage of our total revenue lower than what it is today. We wanted to bring it down below 50%. We remain resolute in that task. As we are doing this, you will notice that the equity revenue itself is getting texturized. It is not a pure play broking alone. You have, in addition to broking, what one would call allied equity revenue, which comes in the form of different types of fees. It also comes in the form of subscription fees. It comes in the form of service fees that the Neo plan sort of associates itself with. There is also NII, which starts coming, and which is a consequence of our growth in the MTF business, which you would have noticed has grown quite a bit. The ESOP business has also grown quite a bit. It's a lot more textured. The nature of relationships, the moment you have these products and propositions, completely changes. We have seen that in the face of disruption, there is stickiness. We have demonstrated the market share gains, and we believe that we have to keep dancing to ensure that we remain cutting edge with the customer. As we do that, we broad-base our offerings, which is what we are endeavoring to do, so that we don't have a single product-dependent, single plan-dependent, single sort of business segment dependence, which is too much. We try to make it as granular as possible, and that's the direction that we are moving ahead with. Sure. Just one last question. On the Prime customers that we have added, how much of the broking revenue is coming from Prime? I just want to understand whether those clients are more engaged, similar to what we see with Amazon Prime, where the Prime customers' order frequency is much higher. Are we also seeing similar behavior from our customers? If you can share what percentage of the broking revenue is coming from Prime customers, that will help us understand that. Also, in addition to that, regarding the distribution revenue, how much of it are we able to get from end-to-end complete digital sales without any human intervention? Yeah. Hi, Nidhesh. Vishal Gulechha here again. I would like to take Prime Plus and Prepaid together because both are very similar propositions, and we have about 8.5 lakh customers in these two brokerage plans. Put together, about 65% of our total equity brokerage revenue is being generated by Prime and Prepaid customers, which includes equity as well as derivatives. Understood. Thank you, sir. Regarding your second question about distribution revenue, approximately 94% of our mutual fund revenue comes from customers who independently initiate and complete transactions. This involves customers directly entering transactions on the platform without any meetings or similar interactions. Of this 94%, I would add a nuance: about 20% of these clients might seek assistance via call or some form of low-touch engagement before placing their order on the platform. This is a subtle distinction. Essentially, 94% of transactions are self-initiated by the customer, with roughly 20% of those potentially involving some form of call or assistance. Yeah. This is for mutual fund revenue. What about other revenue in the distribution? Various categories would have similar attributes. For example, fixed income would have similar attributes. Some of the wealth products may be more physical. Some of the insurance products, especially in the non-protection straight-through category, could be slightly more physical. It varies from category to category. Our endeavor and our belief is that we are one of the most digital delivery capable across product categories. A lot of products that we have been able to digitize are still sold physically in the larger industry. For example, NPS is digital on our platform, and so forth. This has been an approach for product design from the very beginning. An example of that would be even a global investment platform, which for us is completely end-to-end digital, including remittance. Some of the products, yes, still have some physical leg. Amongst the distribution products, the three products which have some element of physicality involved would be loans, insurance, and wealth products. All the three are WIP for digitizing as much as we can. Rest of them are completely digital. As Harvinder said, maybe 20% is in the nature of assisted digital, but it's still digital. Low-touch assisted digital. Understood, sir. Thanks a lot for your time. Thank you. Thanks, Nidhesh. Thank you. The next question is from line of Devvrat Mohta from Capital Group. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, thank you so much for taking my question. Firstly, congratulations on a good set of results. I have 1 question. Over the last 2 quarters, we've seen very strong new client addition traction. However, the cross-sell ratio kind of remains in that 1.75-1.8 range. Why is that not going up? Because, just with the sheer pace of client addition, I would've thought that that stuff kind of going up faster. Yeah. Hi, Devvrat. Harvinder here. Thanks for your comments. First, the cross-sell ratio. The way we define the cross-sell ratio is the number of products per active client. If the active client itself is growing, the pace is going up at a much faster rate. Our endeavor definitely is to grow cross-sell at an increasingly higher pace. That is definitely the endeavor. What we've been able to do is to grow it to 1.79 at a pace which has already grown upwards of 30%-35% over the last couple of quarters, as you commented. That is our journey. The second thing is, we are investing in a lot of analytics-based technologies, as well as marketing stack, et cetera, to propel the journey at an even faster clip. We hope to see results of increasing cross-sell ratio, but just wanted to underline the fact that at a client base which is increasing at upwards of 30%, even maintaining cross-sell ratio requires a huge amount of effort, but we are able to grow it, although by a small margin. Yeah. Devvrat, let me step in here just to augment. This is an area of great focus, and it's a great point that you picked up, actually. It's a great point indeed, and it's an area of significant focus which we are driving. We got it to 1.79. We believe there's a lot of runway to go. Towards that, two steps have been taken quite recently. We've completely strengthened our digital team. We have new guys in who have significant experience dealing with digital cross-sell and other fintech companies. We have also enlisted the services of one of what we believe is a high-quality consultant working with us to deliver the project for increasing cross-sell. They are the same guys who worked with us to deliver the scale-up of our digital sourcing. You've seen the results. The same guys are working with us now to improve cross-sell. We've just about kicked off that project. Understood. To an earlier question, you mentioned that the revenue per client was lower because, one is obviously, the client growth has been very strong, but you mentioned that your newer customers are younger and from tier 2, tier 3 cities. Is this a headwind to cross-sell? Is it harder to cross-sell products to these customers versus your traditional cohort of customers? The characteristics and persona of this customer are as follows: First, they are far more amenable to doing things themselves. They don't necessarily need to be called and assisted. They would prefer to be digitally connected with information and data, and they are economically less endowed compared to the traditional customer. That's the nature of that customer set. To that extent, there's a little bit of economic growth. As it happens to him, his own capability will improve. We've seen that in the past. The younger customer becomes very valuable in three or four years. That's the nature. Not difficult in the sense that he's no different from our younger customer of the past in terms of preferences, difficulty, or lack thereof. The nature of engagement is very different. The older young customer, the old format young customer was more physical. This person is do-it-yourself digital. He likes to get influenced by friends and third-party validations, et cetera. It's important to be in that world with him to cross-sell. You have to cross-sell it in a different format. Understood. If I can squeeze in one last question. Your activation rate, slightly shorter term, but your activation rate went down from 84% in Q4 to 71% in Q1. Reasons for that? Yeah. If you notice between sequential quarters, quarter four to quarter one, you would have seen that the proportion of ICICI Bank-sourced customers has actually come down. Right? The total number of customers has gone up, and the ICICI Bank customers' proportion has come down. ICICI Bank customers, we've been doing it for such a long time, and in a way, we have attained a very high level of activation because of the nature of that connection that we have with them. Since that proportion has come down, the digital customer activation rates are comparatively lower than the ICICI Bank, and that mix change is what is reflected in the overall number. The decline in ICICI Bank was because whatever, through the lockdown they weren't able to-. Yeah. April, May was all lockdown period. Understood. In fact, despite the lockdown, the way to compare is that it was a completely non-digital life last quarter versus the digital lockdown phase this quarter. If you compare April of last year to April of this year, you will see a dramatic difference, and that's because we were able to digitize remotely. Despite the lockdown, we were able to do so. Understood. Perfect. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Yeah. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I have a couple of questions. Number 1: The Nifty lot size has been reduced since July. Can you elaborate on any early trends that you're seeing? I would suppose that should be beneficial for derivatives trading volumes and revenue. Any comment on that would be helpful. I'm not sure whether you've answered this earlier, but we've lost some market share on the cash side. What exactly is happening there, and any comments on why that is and what we can do to recover it? Those would be my two questions. Hi, Madhukar. Vishal here. See, in the derivatives space, we now have two kinds of plans. The first is our traditional time plan, where the brokerage in futures is still regular, and in Neo, it is per-order brokerage. As far as Neo is concerned, in one order, regardless of the number of lots, the brokerage is flat, so there isn't much impact there. As far as traditional time and prepaid plans are concerned, it all depends on the quantity the customer is dealing in, and revenue generation happens accordingly. It's not a very significant change per se, and we are more or less aligned with the market in this. Okay. I would have thought that maybe the lot size changing would more people trading or the number of trades increasing or orders. Yeah, Madhukar, too early to comment on that. June was also a very robust month in terms of number of customers. Maybe this trend will be clearer in the coming months and this quarter. Right. Thank you. On the market share? Let me come in. This is Vijay here, Madhukar. Regarding the market trend, if you see, we've provided month-on-month details in the chart. You will find that our change in market share is principally reflective of the mix change. Retail market share has actually not gone down after the third round of margin changes. It is the mix between institutional and retail that led to this change. The way you should read and interpret this is that there has been no impact on the retail side of market share, and we continue to hold market share, actually. Okay. Within retail market share, you are still there. Yeah, we are holding market share. Okay. Understood. Thank you, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhijeet from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Hello. Sorry, sir, I have two questions. The first question is on the MF distribution revenue. Can you clarify how much the trail commission is and when the customer comes in, how much is in the book? Also, if you can give some understanding about the quarter-on-quarter or year-on-year benefit that has come in due to market action versus the flow of the AUM, MF AUM. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't get your second part of the question. Can you just repeat? No, I'm asking MF AUM has improved year-on-year or sequentially, how much has been benefited because of market action and how much is because of the flow? Flow. Okay, got it. Yeah. First of all, in terms of the revenue contribution between trail and others, for a long time now mutual fund would be only trail commission. There is no upfront in mutual fund. I just wanted to check, Abhijeet, have I got the question correctly first? That is correct, sir. Yeah. 100%, I mean, the entire revenue is trail. That's point number 1. Your second question was that the contribution- From the market action versus flow. Versus the flow. Yeah. Yes. The impact is due to both market and flows. If you look at our SIP market share, that has gone up. Our overall market share has also gone up. We are able to get both gross flows and SIP flows at a clip higher than the market. Obviously, the AUM has also gone up. The total income on a YOY basis is up 39%. Actually, the impact of flows will typically be felt in the later part of the year. A significant part of this impact will be on account of market action, as you said. Flows will start building up, and the impact of that comes at a later point in time. Most of our flows where we have gained market share, you would have seen, are in the form of systematic investment plans. It's a commitment, and that keeps sort of coming over the months. Right. Sure. Got it, sir. Is there any seasonality in life insurance revenue? You explained this a bit earlier, but I wanted to clarify again. Yeah. Certainly. There is a seasonality which is typically loaded in the second half of the year and even within the second half it is Q4 actually. Okay. The Q1 FY 2022 revenues, how much would have been impacted because of lockdown and how much seasonality? Just want to see where it is settling, this life insurance distribution revenue on a 100 basis, where is it settling? It will be difficult to separate in life insurance revenue, Abhijeet because typically what happens is in life insurance, your Q4 contributes to roughly about 30%-35% of the full year number, whereas Q1 contributes to roughly about anywhere between 15%-70%. Regarding the insurance business, since you asked, there has been an important development during this period. We have actually adopted an open architecture there. Apart from ICICI Life, we have added HDFC Life. We are certainly expecting growth over last year, regardless of the numbers you saw. It should be good growth over last year because now we have variety, and there are many efforts underway to digitize processes to minimize human contact. One should anticipate good growth there. You would have already seen the buildup of momentum in Q1. Yeah, I saw that. Which is why I was asking. Yeah. Was there any impact felt from the lockdown? Yeah, there was some slowdown because of lockdown. Typically, what happens in such scenarios is that medicals get sort of delayed. They get pushed to later parts from a time frame. You have the customer sort of interested and committed in some sense, but he's not doing his medicals just yet. Do you also distribute alternate investment products, AIF products? Yeah, Anupam. Yeah, that's right. We also do alternates, we do PMSs. From a customer engagement perspective, we are a fairly broad-based client engagement platform. On one side, while you see numbers on equity, et cetera, from a client engagement perspective, we have a fairly robust bouquet on the fixed income side. On equities, what we've also done is essentially curated a host of new solutions as well. In fact, I'm happy to announce that we've launched something called Masters of The Street, which is largely targeted to customers who would want to invest in the equity market, but at the same time, they would want some level of handholding and research. There we've come out with curated offerings for our clients where we are seeing a good level of success. Since you asked on the alternate bit, we've also seen some success in the unlisted space there as well. Right. Yeah. On the unlisted side as well. Both, we do AIF Cat 2 as well as AIF Cat 3, which is largely on the listed side. On the PMS, we have a fairly large bouquet of services. In fact, apart from the third-party PMSs that we do, we also have our own in-house proprietary PMS. In fact, if I may just spend two minutes to explain what we do there. Largely, given that we, as you're aware, have a large clientele who are interested in equity, and have a large demand base as well. There we engage with them because in PMS we have both discretionary PMS as well as non-discretionary PMS. As you're aware, non-discretionary PMS is something where it's a consultative approach to portfolio building. There I believe that you'll see a lot of traction going forward because clients can build portfolios in consultation. That is one. We've also launched something called a multi-asset PMS, which are typically risk-based PMS strategies as well, which gives a client diversity across equity, debt, and alternates, which is gold in this case. The short point is we are quite strongly there. Right. Sure. Sir, just one last question. How many of your clients are moving from the regular pricing to the flat fee, the new structure? Are any of your clients being poached by discount brokers? Any idea you can give there would be very helpful. Yeah. First of all, this is an open market. The client has complete freedom to choose what he wants. They are all transparently available. He just clicks and awaits. It is open. That is the approach. We have continuously seen, by and large, gains in clients. Our attrition rates have not changed over the last 8 to 10 years, even before discount brokers were in the country. Even when we go back to the early 2010-2011 period and compare it with this period, we haven't noticed any significant change in our attrition rate. Nothing really at a portfolio level that one can cite. I am sure there would be individuals who might have shifted their portfolios. At an overall portfolio level, it is broadly divided into the pre-discount broker phase, post-discount broker phase, and even the new emerging period. There is no major change. The total number of people who opted for the flat plan is reflected in the Neo subscription, which we have reported has crossed 100,000. The rest of them have the option of taking it; whoever wants can take it, and every day we find X number of people keep opting for it. This is a combination of new customers as well as some of what we call NTs and STs: non-traders and stopped traders. Some active traders also opt for it. That whole cumulative impact, as you've seen, is about 100,000, slightly over 100,000 now. Yes, the majority of the customers are from new acquisitions and the activation of inactive customers. Still, active customers form a small part of the overall subscription base. Sure, sir. Got it. Thank you for your detailed response, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sivakumar K. from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, and congrats on a great set of numbers, sir. Sir, referring to the Federal Bank partnership, which was done about last quarter, I know the traction might be lower on account of the lockdown situation, but you had also mentioned that you are also getting into similar partnerships with four or five other partners. Any progress on that front, sir? Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yes. Progress is happening. We have signed up with another three of them. Okay. We have signed up the NDA, and the digital integration work is underway as we speak. Yeah. Different level of integration is required. I mean, the funds part, account opening part, DMAT. Through the course of the next few months or so, 3 more should start being visible. Great. Sir, how has been the experience with the Federal Bank partnership? Because this is the first time you partnered with a third party. Has the process been seamless and all the bottlenecks have been ironed out? Unfortunately, the moment we launched it, we got into phase 1. We had very little practical time to really test it out. Sorry, phase 2 of the COVID-19 pandemic. All that has started off. I think we launched it the last week of March or so, and come April and May, you had what you had. It was a tough period for everyone. We have started seeing numbers picking up only in the month of June onwards. Actually, we can see good growth in June, July as well. We've seen growth over June. We used that time actually to socialize, to familiarize, process cleanups, et cetera. To my knowledge, Vishal, you can confirm, I don't think there is any ongoing project for improving. I think we have something which is good to fly. Right. It is now it has to fly. There will always be a small. Yeah, those are many niggles which will come, but nothing major there left. It's more of a socializing and bottom-up approach now after we create that awareness, reach out to each and everyone in turn. Specifically with FedBank, because they have a very large NRI segment. That is a segment which actually requires development, because it has a different compliance structure. That is an area where we have to put in effort. For the RI segment, the resident Indian segment, it's up and running. Got it, sir. Sir, my second question is Yeah, you were saying something. No, I just said that we don't want to let go of the NRI opportunity because it's one of the largest players in NRI business in the country. Right, sir. Sir, with respect to the loan product distribution, we see that we were doing very good run rate over the last one year, unfortunately, in Q1, we had fallen from INR 5.3 billion to INR 3.2 billion sequential basis. I know the lockdown would have some effect, are there any other challenges apart from that which led to this decline? No. Purely lockdown. It's purely lockdown and the concurrent inability to sort of satisfy, and I would say to some extent, even risk appetite came down a little bit from the banking side. I see. The moment we got into this, banks sort of shriveled up a little bit, waiting for uncertainty to fade. It's a combination of physical inabilities as well as risk appetite playing out. Got it. Currently, how many banks are we partnering with, sir? Total number of banks, seven. Seven banks. Right. My last question is with regards to the MTF book, MTF plus ESOP book. Sorry, banks and NBFCs combined. Yeah. Banks and NBFCs combined. Okay. Sir, the last question is with regard to the MTF plus ESOP book, which has been seeing good traction over the last two quarters. Is it a fallout of the recent changes in the peak margin norms that SEBI has brought in? Clients would need your support for the funding, right? Are there any one-off ESOP fundings which led to this kind of an increase over the last two quarters? No. First and foremost, our growth is granular. It is not lumpy. The second point I would make is that MTF as a proposition, one might say, requires certain market conditions, and those conditions are playing out very well today. This includes a sentiment of positivity, a kind of market outlook that draws people to use this facility. It is being propelled by that kind of prevailing sentiment in the market. To say that it is because of the norms would be incorrect; they are two different products. One is an intraday product where SEBI's norms apply, and this is an overnight product. They are not comparable in that sense. Whether this change in norms has prompted a behavioral shift is a possibility. To say that this happened because of that may not be exactly accurate. The categories of customers opting for intraday and those opting for overnight have different personas. Yeah, just to add on MTF, this is a complete ecosystem. From the outside, it looks as if it's one product. When we look at different blocks, I mean, you have to put in place some five, seven different things, and then only this kind of proposition is made useful for customers. I mean, right from the transaction process, how do you make use of the existing DMAT in taking exposures in MTF, how seamless is your pledge process? Subsequently, how can you offer a solution without any hiccups? As well, what is the brokerage and the variable cost component which will also be demanded by the customer depending on their own appetite? I think we have improved each and every parameter, and the result is evident. To add to that, apart from the ecosystem, how do we help customers navigate in the market? I think our research team has done a great job. In the last 15 months, around 100 portfolio recommendations have come from them. Giving about 20% returns, 60 portfolios have been closed. 38 recommendations were based on technical opportunities, and about 62 recommendations were based on fundamental opportunities. This bodes well for MTF customers because technical portfolio recommendations range from 15 days to 2 months, and fundamental portfolio recommendations range from about 2 months to 6 months. Each portfolio will comprise 3 to 5 stocks. This fits very well into the lives of MTF customers who not only want to take advantage of the system but also want to make a very conscious decision that is in line with market movements. Got it, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you and all the best for the rest of the year. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA India. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Congrats on the quarter. I had a couple of questions and one or two clarifications on some of your comments. First, I'm kind of repeating this question, but I want to understand it well. Our active client base is up 60%-70% YOY, but the retail broking revenue is up only 10% or so. Do we attribute this to the margin norms that came in the interim, leading to a loss of market share in futures a few months back? Do we attribute this to migration to the Neo plan? Do we simply say that the new customers have a much smaller ARPU? While customer addition may be strong, the revenue addition may not be as strong. How do we think about this? If you have to project revenue trend, but it is so divergent from customer count trend, it just becomes a bit hard to project. If you could help me on that, please. Hi, Piran Engineer. Harvinder Jaspal here. I'll try to address, I think most of the factors that I would have answered, you have ticked off in your question. It's a combination of these 3 itself. Number 1, definitely, there would be an impact of migration to Prime, Neo, et cetera, that would have some impact. Some impact is because of the second and third elements that you listed. That in the active customers, our larger portion are new customers because that's where the new scale-up is happening and they are, 1, younger and they have got limited opportunity. In Q1, and I'll help with an help of an example. Supposing you have 100 active customers in Q1 of last year. Maybe about 70 of them were existing customers, were seasoned guys, and this is their fourth year, fifth year of investment, and 30 was made up from the new customers who have got acquired in that quarter itself. That was a mix, let's say, one year back. When one year later, today where we are, this mix is slightly more contribution by new customers because there the scale-up has happened, which is huge. The 70 has remained maybe 70 or it has become 85. The 30, which was from new customers has exploded to 70. Obviously new customers in the first 90 days, you would not expect them to give the same level of ARPU as the seasoned customer. That is the second, which is a combination of the second and third factor. Obviously, as we have discussed earlier, the new customers are younger. They are at an earlier stage. A combination of those two or three things, and we will see that this trend will stabilize. Then the scale stabilizes and you have an inventory of customers coming to your active base. Tomorrow, if the market goes down and this 70 old vintage customers start trading less, that will wipe off all the positive impact of the new 70 customers simply because of the sheer of the size of the vintage customers versus the new customers. No. Piran, if you look at the trend over the last maybe 6, 7, or 10 years, we have seen about 2 or 3 cycles of markets going down and coming up. I think there were 3 cycles. Consistently, what we have witnessed is that platform activity level has a very secular trend. If we had, let's say, 100 customers transacting on our platform 5 years ago, today we could have 500 or 1,000 customers. That level keeps growing. Every customer cohort, let's say a new customer acquired in Q1 of this year, that cohort has a huge life cycle. I mean, we are consistently able to engage customers for over 20-30 years. That is something which we have already seen and demonstrated. Now we are going younger. Our endeavor is that you start a customer interaction at maybe even 20 years of age and go right up to 70. It's a 50-year runway, which is theoretically possible, and that's our game. From one quarter to another, there could be some impact of high market activity. Over the longer term, we have seen across cycles that the trend is very secular. I think if you refer to slide 14 of our presentation, it kind of depicts what Harvinder just said. We did an analysis for the last decade, and what we found is that through this period, if you look at it in a block of let's say three years, you will find that the growth in profit has consistently been about at least 17% or higher CAGR. Yeah. Okay. That is fair. I'm not disputing that. I was just saying. Now, Harvinder mentioned about the. Your point, whether it can have a quarter-to-quarter impact, it is possible. If you look at it from a more medium-term, which is a three-year window, we have seen consistent decade-long growth. Okay. Just to Harvinder's point about the client life cycle, I'm assuming at the start, a client has an ARPU of maybe INR 2,000-INR 2,500 per year. Your average is closer to INR 8,000-INR 10,000. How long does a client take to really scale up from that INR 2,000-INR 3,000 to maybe INR 8,000-INR 10,000? Is it more like it takes a decade or so, or is it a much faster process in your experience? We've not put that out specifically, but it is not a decade. It will take maybe a year or two. One factor is that for the 2,500 (or whatever you are assuming), you have to consider that the customer, in the year they get acquired, on average, some clients will get only one month, while some clients will get 11 months. It'll be a weighted average period runway of only six months. The first year ARPU is lower. Yes, it does get built up. Over a period of, let's say, five, 10, or 15 years, we have seen 5X, 10X, that kind of growth in ARPU that happens. Okay. I just had a couple of clarifications. Could you remind us what are the charges under Neo? Because in your opening comments, you said some of the growth in the other income has come from Neo. No, sorry. There's a distortion on the phone. Just repeat what you said. In your opening comments, you mentioned that part of the contribution of other income came from some other charges under the Neo plan. Yeah. That's right. What are these charges? Could you please remind us? These are one-time migration charges, is it? Or is it a recurring- It's a combination. I'll just request Vishal to elaborate. Vishal will just go into the details. Yes, it's definitely a subscription fee, which is a one-time payment. Subsequently, there are other charges, such as an interest component if you use shares as collateral. There's a fund transfer charge, a system expiry charge, and a call entry charge. All these together form an income stream from your proposition. Got it. Just the other clarification. On Madhukar's question where you said that with this Nifty contract size going down, it won't have much impact. You'll also have an Option 20 plan, right, which has been in place for quite a long time. Do you not have a lot of people using it? Option 20 is still a significant part and an important proposition for us. Although the lot size is reduced from 75 to 50, it is still not very small. When we look at Nifty, the contract size is still INR seven and a half lakh rupees. It's not that it has come to INR two and a half or INR three lakh rupees. I mean, for pure retail customers, it is still kind of a long shot. It has only been about 14 trading sessions, or 13 trading sessions, since this change happened. We'll see more impact as we move forward. Okay, fine. Got it. That's all from my end. Thanks so much. Sorry, there is a lot of static noise coming on the phone suddenly. Yeah. Let me check. No, anyway, sir, I'm good. Thanks for answering my questions and all the best. I wonder if you were able to hear clearly because suddenly it started coming. No, I can hear. I could hear. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected while we rejoin the management on the line. Participants, please stay connected while we reconnect the management to the call. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience. We have reconnected the management. Peyam, go ahead. We'll move on to the next question. The next question is from Harsh Akkina from India Infoline. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Am I audible? Yes, sir. Yeah. I just had a couple of questions. One is, I think on the mix of ADTO between equity and derivatives, I think last year we had a slightly higher mix than the previous two years, and you were building that there would be some decline. I think this quarter also, the share of equity ADTO has been relatively higher. I just want to know, it's around 6% of your ADTO mix. I just wanted to see how you are looking at this going forward because the way we look at blended deals, that has an impact. My second question is, I think the broking revenue on a quarterly basis ranges from INR 230 crores-INR 250 crores per quarter over FY 2018 to 2020. This went to around INR 375 crores in FY 2021. This year, while we might have anticipated some moderation, you still managed an increase. It's at INR 395 crore. I just want to know how you are looking at broking income on a quarterly basis. What is the new benchmark? Is INR 390, INR 350 the new benchmark, and how should we look at that versus prior history? Yeah. Hi, Harsh Akkina. On the question that you asked about broking, we have definitely seen a slightly structural uptick. Even we were of the view earlier, five quarters back, that it could moderate down. I mean, it could still moderate down. It depends on capital markets, et cetera. We have seen in the past as well, if you analyze the data, that once this kind of a wave that came in in FY 2021, earlier also a couple of times in 2015, if you remember, when the first version of the government got elected and in 2018 after demonetization. Some of these events have led to a slight structural lifting. Even if it moderates down, what we've seen is that it is much higher than the earlier baseline. It's a baseline shift. It's very difficult to predict and put a number, unless you put a number to how capital markets will behave, which is difficult. Structurally, we are seeing that, I'll say in terms of, let's say, the number of active clients. We were at about 1 million active clients not so long ago. We are at 2 million active clients. That is something that we have seen is structural. It is here to stay, is what we believe. There could be, as Vijay elaborated in the last question as well, a quarter-on-quarter slight variation. Otherwise, the underlying trend is structural, a very secular one. Sure. You had one more question, Harsh Akkina. I'm sorry I missed that. On your About the mix of derivative and equity ADTO. Yes. It's not 6%, Harsh Akkina, I mean, derivative even for the industry. It's more like 96, 97, 3 in that zone. Equity and derivative, that is broadly the volume mix. Increasingly, as we have said earlier also, that in derivative or in trading products, our shift is more towards contract size pricing rather than volume. Increasingly, volume or ADTO, especially in derivatives, because notional for options is considered out of date. That will become less and less relevant in some time from now. Sure. Thanks for the clarification. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I have two or three questions. One is that we've seen the balance sheet trade payables going up by 28% year-on-year. How much do you attribute this to our newer customers coming from open architecture, and therefore, because that pool was never with us in the past, it went to ICICI Bank? Is this 28% increase largely attributed to the open architecture we opted for last year, and therefore, we are seeing a steady source of interest income in our numbers? Or is this growth largely attributed to the increase in the market itself, and therefore, we should not read much into it? I just wanted to understand the nuances there. Thanks for the question, Sanket. Indeed, the increase in trade payables has these three components. I'll just add one thing, the third to the two that you have mentioned. The third is also an increase in margin. What has happened is that there is a starting of a client float under the Neo open architecture format. That is definitely a cause in this client payable. The second factor is that the margin quantums have obviously gone up with the new margin norms coming in. For the same level of trade, people need to give more margins to us. That is the second factor. The third factor is a bit of a T+2 day effect. The T+2 day would be, let's say, it ranges; sometimes it is INR 200 crores at the end of the quarter, sometimes it goes up to INR 500 crores. We have seen historically 200-500 has been that kind of an impact. These two factors are here to stay. Okay. Do you see that because of the open architecture incrementally contributing, we become like other brokers where they make a huge amount of money from this float? Do you see that structurally playing out for us going ahead, given we are acquiring more customers digitally? Neo might be more used to acquire those kinds of customers. I just wanted to understand the thought process around this and how it will pan out going ahead. Yeah. Sanket, I'll just give you a bit of directional input here. What you're saying is right. This is something which is new for us. We have been able to add something that was not a part of our business model earlier. We do believe that this will start becoming a part of our business model. However, there's a difference. Our approach has been to make it very seamless for our customer. I mean, that is very important for us. The way we have designed this open-architecture system is that, at the click of a button, a customer can sweep the funds back into his account, as compared to some other places where it would be quite an effort and not a seamless journey. In our mind, that is also equally important. We have seen a buildup there. Going forward also it should improve. We have also said that Neo is a proposition to attract trading clients. Open architecture plus Neo, both are helping in this. Add one element just to clarify, it is not just the new plan which is float centric. The open- Any customer acquired digitally is float centric. Yeah. I understand. He could be taking even a Prime plan, and he will still contribute float. Sir, any other bank customer- Yeah. Any bank customer outside of ICICI Bank will be a person who would provide float to us. Got you. That segment is growing, actually. Got it. Okay, sir. The second question I had was, if I look at the activation level of the last two quarters, it is broadly in the range of 70%-80%, and the bulk of the customers we recently added in the last two quarters were digitally sourced customers. The other digitally discounted brokers, where we see the activation levels, what they claim is around 30%-35%. For us, it is 2x or maybe 2.2x the numbers they report. Sir, I just wanted to understand what is leading to such a high activation level when customers are sourced digitally and the experience for others is different, and the experience we are having is a little different from theirs. Sir, if you could provide some color on it, it would be useful. Yeah. Sanket, it's like this. The other players who are in this space have been doing this for three to five years, depending on the player. Right. Just to say that for the activation levels, et cetera, to be compared, you have to have a little bit of stability before you start comparing the two numbers. That is why we are not giving out any numbers. These numbers are available as a part of our historical disclosure, so you're seeing it as a cohort. I think you have to give us some more time before this digital thing is going to settle down. It's going to take a little bit of time before it settles down. I believe that it will eventually, as when it reaches a scale and in a consistent way, I don't expect it to be very different from what other industry players are expecting. Over a period of time, you assume it should be very similar to what industry average is. At scale, I think it should settle down. Okay. It's similar. That's the anticipation. Don't go by the current cohort that you're seeing, because it varies month-on-month, and we need to have some more runway of experience before we settle down on this. Got it, sir. The third point is that with the strong growth in the MTF book, which we have seen even on a quarter-on-quarter basis, I just wanted to understand if it's driven by market share gains or if the industry's demand for this product has increased. If it is because of market share gains, is it due to our ability to offer low interest rates, which is also playing a significant role in us gaining market share? I just wanted to understand the dynamics there, whether it's a market share story or more of a demand story. Classically, it's a bull cycle product. Our dependence on the product is increasing slightly. If, for some reason, the market remains flat or doesn't correct and remains range-bound, how do you see the risk of revenue not picking up from this line of business? Yes. As I briefed earlier, this is a complete ecosystem that we have put in place now. These are gains in the absolute MTF book, in the absolute amount of the MTF book, and there has also been a market share gain. Also, as I said, the research team has played a very critical role, and the market has also favored this kind of product. The endeavor will always be that we stick to market share, and as and when such an opportunity is available in the market, we are not left behind and leverage that. It's certain, both in terms of market share as well as in absolute amount. Okay. Sir, what is your current market share? I think in the past we said it is around 20 odd%. Has it substantially increased from those levels, sir, in MTF book? 22, Sanket. I will let you judge whether it is substantial or not. It is 22 now. Okay. Thanks, Sarvesh. Finally, this question was partially addressed, but I just wanted to understand: among your customers, we added 1 lakh in the current quarter. I just wanted to understand how much of this 1 lakh consists of existing inactive users getting converted into an active Neo plan. He wasn't contributing to revenue anyway, so he's probably now thinking of contributing to revenue. Or is Neo still largely acquiring, meaning it's part of the digital acquisition of 2.7 lakh accounts? Sir, I just wanted to understand the overlap of Neo in the 2.7 lakh accounts added in the current quarter through digital means. You see, Neo is just a six-month-old proposition. We started in December in a small way. In January, we started offering this to the new set of customers who are now coming into the system, and also to customers who have shown a diminishing trend or a complete stop in behavior. I'd say the bulk of these 100,000 customers are from the reactivation of such stopped traders, as well as from MCA. As far as active customers are concerned, that forms a very small portion of the overall 100,000 accounts. A very small percentage. Okay. It's fair to assume that the customer who was never contributing revenue in the past started contributing to the revenue because the inactive ones are active due to the new offering. Yes, that is right. Yes, Sanket. Out of 100,000, high portion would be that. Yes. Got it. Finally, regarding the investment banking pipeline or growth trajectory, this year seems to be a hyper year. Sir, I just wanted to understand our deals and what kind of trajectory we could see, given we made around INR 47 odd crores in the current quarter. How do you see this trajectory playing out in the subsequent three quarters at least? Yeah, Sanket. Hi. Ajay Saraf here. Compared to last year, as you said, we are seeing a lot more activity. The pipeline, the overall market volume, we expect to be higher by at least 50% than last year. All of that depends on, obviously, the market factors over the next three, six, nine months. Suffice it to say that if all of these pipelines go through, ICICI will play a very pivotal role there. We would have a 60%, 70% market share in all these issues. Pipelines are very strong for the year. Got it, sir. Yeah. Thanks. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you for patiently going through this call and asking and participating actively with your questions. I hope we've been able to respond to all your points. In case there are afterthoughts or follow-up questions, please feel free to reach out to Harvinder, reach out to our IR guys, reach out to me, and we'll be more than happy to clarify these points. Please do take care, and all the best to all of you. Thank you very much. Good day. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.