Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings conference call of ICICI Securities Limited for the quarter ended September 30th, 2021. We have with us on the call today, Mr. Vijay Chandok, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Ajay Saraf, Executive Director, Mr. Harvinder Jaspal, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Vishal Gulechha, Head Retail Equities, Mr. Kedar Deshpande, Head Retail Distribution, Product and Services Group, Mr. Anupam Guha, Head Private Wealth Management, Mr. Subhash Kelkar, Chief Technology and Digital Officer, Mr. Ketan Karkhanis, Head Digital Client Acquisition and Co-head New Solutions Group, Mr. Prasannan Keshavan, Head Operations, and Mr. Nilotpal Gupta, Head Data Science Unit. For the duration of this presentation, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. I will be standing by for the Q&A session. The business presentation can be found on the company's corporate website, icicisecurities.com, under Investor Relations. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Chandok to take over the proceedings. Over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Janice. Good evening to all of you, and welcome to the ICICI Securities second quarter earnings call for fiscal 2022. I am sure that by now you would have all perused through our quarter two results and also our investor presentation, which has been uploaded. We are happy to report that we have further strengthened our franchise by increasing our client base now to 6.3 million, and the assets of clients with us has increased to over INR 5 trillion. This is driven by all-around growth across businesses that we operate in. Following our results, our board of directors have approved an interim dividend of INR 11.25 versus INR 8 per share, which was declared as an interim dividend last year. The scale-up in our digital sourcing, coupled with healthy adoption of our product proposition, has actually resulted in our client acquisition becoming 5X in this quarter on a YOY basis. Subsequently, our NSE active client base grew by about 90% on a YOY basis, and the incremental market share for the month of September actually came in at about 12%. Here, I would say that we have always believed, and we would once again reiterate that for our industry, NSE active as a sole input variable of relative franchise strength and performance may not be appropriate and a holistic assessment of the competitive strength of our franchise is required to be assessed. In such a context, a broader set of parameters, including client assets, level and frequency of activities, average revenue per users or ARPU's, and volume share amongst others, should be examined to assess franchise quality. In line with this belief, our focus would continue to be on acquiring customers with sustainable quality, even if it means that there would be some moderation of client acquisition numbers in the short term. We are also enriching the content section of our website and digital educational properties, which has resulted in increased traffic to our platform, which has actually started helping us increase acquisition through organic channels, which is the highest quality of digital sourcing. Our retail equities business registered a revenue growth on a YOY basis as well as on a sequential basis. This is despite a decrease in ADTOs, and this has been possible because of the texturization of our equity business. Something that we've been talking about for a few quarters now. As a result of this, the allied equity revenue now contributes 30% of our total equity revenue, and as a result of this, we registered a sequential increase in our total retail equity revenue and market share. However, we are yet to see, and here I must say that we are yet to see a similar trend in retail derivative market share. Although we don't share these numbers with you, we thought we will just share with you that on the retail equity, we have seen growth in market share, but a similar trend is yet to be visible on our retail derivative market share. We are actually focused on a lot of initiatives to increase our derivative market share, and we believe that these initiatives will help us improve our market position. It may take a few quarters to witness the positive impact of these measures to gain volume market share. Our distribution business witnessed all-around growth across all our major products. In mutual fund, we gained market share in overall gross flows led by debt gross flows. We lost some market share in the equities gross flows, especially the HNI segment on account of growing traction of clients embracing direct plans. We are at this point in Prime piloting a direct plan offering to this HNI segment with an intention to attract customers to the platform and then monetize them by cross-selling other products. This is another new initiative that we have launched for the HNI segment. We are working on several other initiatives in this area and are quite optimistic of achieving positive long-term outcomes. We are already witnessing strong gains actually at a granular level, like increase in the SIP market share, which would be visible in our presentation. As we think about our own future, we recently did an exercise where about 75 senior members of the company, the top leadership team, got together and looked at the market, the regulatory developments, technology trends, to formulate a strategy for the next two to three years. Here we observed that India's demographic opportunity is clearly getting texturized. The market is segmented and sub-segmented, ranging from the young Gen Z and millennial investors to Gen X and baby boomers. The needs of each of these segments, each of these sub-segments and micro segments are different. It was therefore important for us to recognize and harness this opportunity in a format that fits into the sensibilities and preferences of each of these segments through an ecosystem approach. Towards this, we have actually initiated and planning a differentiated offering for each of these ecosystems as they have their own distinct behavior and unique needs. Therefore, we felt it's important to serve them differently in a, what one could call, a hyper-personalized environment and hyper-personalized manner. We are making investments to revamp our channel stack, build a data-driven, hyper-personalized ecosystem approach, and best-in-class kind of an experience to evolve into what one would call a new financial services marketplace. We believe that the financialization of savings will get much stronger over the next few years, and our estimate is that close to INR 10 crore new broking accounts and mutual fund folios would be opened in the next few years, along with significant opportunities in other financial product categories like fixed income, insurance, and so on. We also believe that our loan distribution business could get an impetus from the emerging facilitative developments that are taking place, such as the account aggregator framework. While we remain committed to operating efficiencies in the long term, we will continue to invest in technology and digital marketing and talent to take advantage of the large market opportunity across businesses that we operate in through our newly laid out strategy, which we shared with all of you in the I-Sec day that we did some time back. I will end my commentary now and throw open the session for any questions that you may have. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Kashyap Javeri from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Hello, sir. Am I audible? Yes, please. Hello. Yeah. Can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you, sir. Question, again, on market share side, you made some comments over there about the sensibility of the client base. However, having said that, both in terms of market share as well as in terms of pricing it seems that there is a significant pressure which is building up, and it's been almost about now four quarters that it continues to build up over there. Any comments on that side? How do we recoup this? It's been almost four quarters now, both on cash as well as F&O side. Yeah. I don't know if you got it right. On the cash equity side, we have gained market share sequentially. I don't know if you got that. You see our investor presentations as well. There is an increase in market share that has happened on the retail side. On the retail side. Yes. While we have not shared with you the total details between retail and institutional, the numbers that you see is a combi number. Right. When we look at it internally, we see that sequentially, we have gained market share on retail side. Whereas on the F&O side, while you see a flat number, actually on the retail side, we have actually not yet gained market share. We are not seeing that kind of a trend that is visible on the retail cash equity. Your first point on cash equity side, we have started gaining market share sequentially on that. Sorry. I just wanted to make a bit of a point over here. If I look at the whole market, because of the pricing we have been on flattish number, about INR 350 crores for almost about five quarters. Whereas active client base has almost gone up from about 1.2 to almost about twice of that, 2.3. It seems like market itself is shrinking. Is that assumption correct? Actually, if you look at the number that you have quoted, is only the broking revenue. Right? Right. We have been telling and guiding all of you for a long time now that we are not fixated on a single line item singularly. Got it. As a conscious strategy, we have said that we will be looking at wider spectrum of revenues that we can earn through various other products. When it comes to equities business, we have said that we are texturizing it. We believe that there is a migration of yields that are happening specifically with broking. We are also migrating southwards. We've told that that's our strategy to do that because it helps us gain market share. In line with that, we have brought down the yields on broking. We have actually texturized it by adding products like float revenue, MTF, the Prime fees, et cetera, which has got a little more sticky nature as opposed to just transactional linked broking. If you look at the total equities revenue, equities revenue has not only grown, month-on-month it has also grown sequentially. At least internally, we look at it as a total equity revenue and not broking as a singular line item. Okay. Clearly there are opportunities in Prime fees, there are opportunities on MTF, there are opportunities on some of the other charges that some of the plans like Neo offers the company to earn. That's how we are looking at it. If you look at- equities, cash equities, we are clearly feeling a lot more sure-footed about gains in market share as well as revenue. That's what even my commentary actually said, that we still have a way to go. We believe it is going to take a few quarters before we can start seeing the results of gains on the derivative side. However, that said, we are seeing growth when it comes to our overall derivative revenue itself is growing. Obviously we want to grow faster than market. Our aspiration is to grow faster than market. One last question. Should your MTF revenues not be in line with your retail brokerage revenue? That part is growing, actually, whereas the brokerage is not. In margin trading or margin funding, shouldn't that be linear with the retail brokerage? Yeah, Kashyap. Harvinder here. Yeah. Yes. Indeed, that book has been growing substantially. MTF book is a combination of both on the product side where we have launched it along with Prime, after which we have seen traction. That also adds to brokerage. This INR 350 crore run rate that you're talking about, if I were to take you slightly back, four, five quarters back, the steady run rate was a max of INR 220 crore-INR 250 crore. From that level, definitely even the brokerage has come up and as Vijay explained, apart from that, many other lines have got added. Overall brokerage is a function of a lot of these things. The yield aspect which Vijay spoke about. Growing volume. MTF is a function of what we have as a product, and it's a unique proposition. We are gaining market share there as well. Sure. I will come back to that too. I have a few more questions, and I'll come back. Sure. Thank you so much. Kashyap, I'll just add one more point on derivatives. There are two ways of looking at the derivatives volume. You would have observed that the volume in options have touched new highs every week, rather. There are other five variables, and those are core operating influencers in terms of derivatives income. We have an eye on each and every such variable. You look at number of customers month-on-month, look at open interest or ADTOs, number of orders, brokerage from derivatives. I think these are very important factors when we look at derivatives as a core product. We see stability and growth in these factors month-on-month, even in Q2, after the fourth phase of the peak margin. The only thing where we have not participated is a very low premium option trading, which doesn't make economic sense for customers. We have seen of late lot of rise in those kind of trading patterns also. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening and congrats on the results. This is Piran here. I had a few questions. Firstly, what percentage of our revenue, if you all have done this statistic, and I am sure you all would have. What percentage of our INR 350 crore revenue comes from customers acquired in the last 18 months since COVID hit? Any ballpark figure? Maybe in the last 12 months, if that's the number you all track. Piran, maybe I'll have to come back to you. No, let me come back to you, Piran. I think it will not be fair for me to quote a number right now. Point noted. We will revert to you. We don't mind. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Thanks. My next question may be a bit stupid, but we talk about activation rates going up to 70%-75%, but if you could just give some color on, let's say, deactivation rate. Like you acquire a client, he trades for one or two quarters, and then he stops trading with you all. Or like how life insurers call persistency rate. Can you give some color on what sort of persistency rates you all see in this business? Maybe on a QoQ basis, YoY basis, some color at all. Going back to Kashyap's question, wherein NSE active client acquisition has been strong but it hasn't really translated into revenue growth. Just wanted to get a sense of that. Piran, two things to note over here. NSE active, if you look at it and if you look at the equation, a lot of these growth in NSE active is being driven by new clients that you are acquiring. As Vijay also mentioned in his opening remark there has been a 5x growth on a YoY basis in terms of total clients acquired. 120,000 kind of a run rate for a quarter has become about 580,000 kind of a run rate. A high majority of the NSE active is coming from new clients who have yet not got. Seasoned seasoned and they've not got opportunity to start giving revenue. Happens is, you quoted insurance and maybe I'll dip into that parallel. You look at the new customers in insurance versus the renewal customer, there is a stage where the renewal kind of customers start contributing much more compared to the new customer. That is one of the reason which you have to juxtapose NSE active and the source of growth of NSE active. In this particular quarter, for example, 580,000 clients have got acquired, out of which 420,000 clients have been active, and so on, so forth. They've got just maybe 45 days of transaction opportunity itself. That is not comparable to, let's say, a client who has got 12 months. That is one flavor that I would definitely want to give you. As regards to your question, persistency, definitely some of these things on overall active customers, ARPU, et cetera, will give you a sense of persistency. One of the other things that you have to look at is that if a client is attriting, you would not expect a growth in assets because an attriting client will not have demat assets, et cetera. Those are some of the parameters which we also measure and track internally to look at the longevity. We do have clients which have more than 10 years, 15 years vintage with us. We have given some metrics out in public domain also, which says that about two-thirds of our revenue comes from clients which have five-year plus vintage. Some of those are important to consider when we talk about loyalty. Okay. Fair enough. How many customers have availed MTF right now? That book has grown super strong in the last two years. If you could just give a rough numerical value. Yeah, sorry, can you just come again? How many customers have availed the MTF and ESOP funding out of your 20 lakh odd active customers? I can give you another number. We have not declared number of customers availing MTF. ESOP is much smaller universe because very handful of senior management and employees would get that. Far as MTF is concerned, we have registered growth year-on-year since 2017. This product is in existence and every single year we have seen a growth in number of customers and it's still growing very strong. You know that this is also a product of slightly matured customers who understand the market very well. To be fair to compare it with the 2 million active customers, relatively this is a smaller segment, but this segment is, in terms of ARPUs, in terms of size, is very healthy, and they contribute substantially in the overall revenue of the company. Okay, thanks. My last question why did we buy AskNBid Innovation? As I told you that we have been looking at various fintechs to either, what we say, make, partner or buy. In such a context, we have partnered today with I think close to 20 + fintechs through ICICI Direct, some of which are visible as an experience for a customer on the front end. Some of it is powering the back end which is not visible to the customer in terms of an experience, but experienced as an ICICI Direct service. We have about close to 20 + such partnerships. AskNBid was in a very interesting space. We could completely resonate with what they are constructing. Keeping that thing in view, we have taken on 16%, approximately, stake in the company. They are building what we believe will connect quite well with the millennial and the Gen Z segment which is, one could say, a gamified method of experiencing participation in the markets because that would connect well with the millennial Gen Z segment. There is also an angle which is coming with this social connectedness, which is also in line with our philosophy. That investment would enable us to fast-forward some of the capabilities that this company has got into ICICI Direct itself. We are working very closely with the tech team of AskNBid. Okay, great. Thank you, and all the best. Piran, you had asked one question on the contribution of the first 12-month kind of numbers. Roughly, it would be in the range of about 10%-11%. That's what we have seen last year and this year. It could be an evolving number and will be a function of what kind of a growth in clients, et cetera, we see, but just a ball-parkish number. I'll just say it's a ball-parkish number. About 10%. Okay. This is your revenues come from customers acquired in the last 12 months? Yeah. Customers who are acquired, let's say, in a particular financial year, giving revenue in that particular financial year, is 12% of that year's total brokerage revenue. Okay, got it. This is helpful. Yeah. Ball-parkish. Yeah. Perfect. Well, that's good. Yeah. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aejas Lakhani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Congratulations on the set of numbers. Just a couple of follow-ups. The first is could you explain what is driving the MTF growth? Yeah. Thanks. I request Vishal to step in. MTF we have transformed this space completely in last 18 months or mostly last two years. This is not a product. We have created the entire ecosystem for these MTF customers. It starts from the proposition, very attractive brokerage, the kind of journey which we have created for MTF, the kind of interest which we are offering to our customers. We have covered it with our time and prepaid, okay, and a very balanced way to communicate with customers and also throwing opportunities to customers. The entire product is very well supported by our research team. If I talk about Q2 itself, there were about 30 MTF related research recommendations which were given by our research team, and the strike rate was as high as 96%, delivering about 10% return on each and every such call. Everything put together has led to this kind of growth. We have grown in terms of book size, we have grown in terms of number of customers, and also the MTF market share. I can't contribute the success of MTF to one single factor, but this is a contribution of the entire ecosystem which the team has created here. Sir, could you quantify that? Can we expect such growth rates in the MTF book? What is the size of the opportunity with the existing clients that is there still to mine? I think two things. One, we of course, had to grow number of customers participating in this product. Secondly, all said and done, the market has also been very supportive for product like this because when markets get into consolidation, really people find it difficult to carry the positions for very long term. As we have seen in last two years, market has been extremely helpful in leveraging whatever we have created. Our focus will be to build on market share, to add more number of customers, and then the market will also be one of the very important driving factor. Okay. Sir, Mr. Vijay Chandok, you mentioned at the start of the conversation that ARPU revenues have actually grown, and you mentioned your look at the total equity revenue. Could you explain us how that ARPU revenue is calculated? Because the way we are looking at it, ARPUs have actually come down. Could you help us with the calculation and how you see it? Yeah. I don't know if you heard it as ARPU revenues. I talked about the total stack of revenues, not the ARPU revenue. You are absolutely right, ARPU has declined because our growth which has come in is yet to translate into the kind of growth in terms of ARPUs that these stock customers have. We believe that's going to take longer for getting to that levels of ARPU. ARPU would be down, but total revenue pool has grown. Got it. Sir, could you mention what is the total equity revenue? You mentioned that that is the number you all track internally. Yeah. I think that number has also been shared. If you look at our slide 16, it will talk about the total equity revenue. Right. Okay. Sir, follow-up is would you expect the broking revenues for this part of the year to be top 50%? Currently it is coming at about 48%. Right. We have had strong growth in terms of the distribution revenue, which is an area of focus. We have been telling you also that we have redoubled our efforts on increasing our growth in all other non-equity revenues with as much rigor and vigor as we've been pursuing equity in the past. That effort is only going to intensify. Input parameters say, I can tell you that our efforts will be loaded in the direction of non-equity. We do hope the markets behave in a way that the input parameters also translate into an output parameter, which is loaded in favor of non-equity, even as we grow equity revenue. Okay, fair enough. Sir, just want to get a sense that, the recent tie-up with HSBC, what kind of a client profile do you see there? When do you expect that to go on stream? Yeah, Vishal. It will take some more time before we can go live. We are creating that integration. We understand that the HSBC client profile would be better than average, as we know them for years. We hope to bring better quality customers with tie-up with HSBC. Got it. Thanks. I'll follow back with you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to the participants, please limit your question to two per participants only. You may come back in the question queue if you have a follow-up. The next question is from the line of Sahej Mittal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thanks for taking my question and congratulations on a great set of numbers. My first question was on the other distribution income. If you could just give a split of what is the income on distribution of loans, bonds, a ballpark number would help to understand what sort of yield and what will be the growth outlook for the loan book which we are having. My second question is to understand what is the quality of the customer which we are adding on from the digital sources. How different is the payback period for these customers? Are these customers largely opting for a Prime plan or a Neo plan? Yeah, that would be helpful. Hi, Sahej. I'll take your questions one by one. First is the income from loan distribution. Typically, we earn around 1%, 0.9%-1% on the loan disbursed. If you look at our disclosure this quarter, we disbursed about INR 700 crore, INR 690 crore to be precise, which is our ever-highest disbursement till date. Prior to this, the highest was about INR 5.3 billion. Earlier than that, our average used to be about INR 2.5 billion. INR 2.5 billion to about INR 5.3 billion last year Q4 to about INR 6.9 billion. That has been the trajectory on disbursement and we earn about 0.9%-1%. That's the ballpark. That's the first question that you asked. Second question that you asked was about quality of customers and the payback period in digital sourcing. As we had articulated earlier also that digital sourcing as a group has about five to seven different type of customer acquisition channels within it. Some of them are called organic which have almost zero cost and pretty high quality. Some of them could be, let's say advertisement-led or referral-led, which could have a lesser quality as compared to this. This mix is something that we are yet to fully optimize. That is something that we are working on and therefore it will be slightly misleading right now to quote a absolute number. What I can tell you is that every quarter/every month we are seeing the cost per acquire for digital is going down and we are focused on getting the payback period up. The payback period at an overall portfolio level, which is digital, non-digital, everything put together is roughly of the order of 12 to 14 months overall. By payback period I mean whatever you spend and how many months you take in terms of revenue to get it back. Digital is obviously higher right now. Are these customers opting for a Prime or a Neo plan or are they opting for an I-Secure plan? It'll be a combination, Sahej. There are people who opt for Prime and Neo as well. Lot of people want to test out the platform so there'll be lot of signups for I-Secure as well. It's a combination. It's not only one of the plans. Neo has about 150,000 odd subscribers today. Prime as you know has about 800,000 subscribers. On an incremental basis it's a combination. It's not one of the plans, a mix. Got it. One last question if I could squeeze in. What are the extent line items which we are trying to variabilize for us to better manage our expenses in times of downturns? What would be the variable part of our staff expenses or other operating expenses? What are the expense line items which we are trying to variabilize? A couple of things. I think one of the big ones is what Vijay mentioned, that we are focusing on partnerships. We have 15, 20 different partnerships. The way we structure these partnerships when we are getting clients, the revenue share or the remuneration is variable. Even in our investment banking business there are variable share. In our sub-broker business, there are variable revenue shares. Some of these lines where the revenue is success linked, that helps us variabilize and we don't have to invest manpower and cost of acquiring these customers. That's part 1. Part 2, obviously, when you take a NIM kind of an approach for our loan books, the interest cost is obviously variable because it's a NIM approach. Part 3, as you rightly said, is the fixed variable component of the employee cost. Our idea is more of having growth linked to revenue variable line items we are okay with and trying to control fixed costs in all areas other than, let's say, marketing and technology. These are the two areas that we have stated where we are making investments and the spends will go up. Apart from that, all the fixed costs we are trying to curtail. Variable cost, we don't mind, but on a per unit basis, we are trying to optimize that as well. One example is, as I said, cost per acquire. Cost per acquire is also on a month-on-month basis. We are trying to optimize it. It's going down. Got it. Thanks. That'd be all. Good luck for the future. Thank you. Thanks, Sahej. Take care. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening, everyone. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. A few quick questions. First, what percentage of our derivative volumes would now be under the Neo plan? Could you sort of give some color on that and whether our derivative revenues are sort of growing on a QOQ basis? That would be interesting to know. Second, just continuing on the earlier question. What is the activation rate in the digital channel and can you sort of give us some numbers around what is the cost of acquisition that you're seeing or what is the trading behavior of the newly sourced digital customer? Lastly, I know this is hard to sort of judge, do smaller Nifty contracts, right? I mean, from 75 to 50, the number of Nifty is sort of reduced. Do smaller contract sizes make any difference in terms of trading and hence revenues? That would broadly be my three questions. I will address two. One is what is the Neo's contribution in the overall derivatives volume. It is talking about close to 40% of overall derivatives volume. As Harvinder shared earlier, we had about 1.5 lakh customers opting for this plan. The daily churn rate is also healthy from their existing set of customers, more so from our stock traders and non-traders, and also the set of customers which we identify, which can be are too beneficial to us. The second question is The lower volume activity. Yeah. Actually, as you see, the market is clocking very high volume in options. In options, actually reducing the size from 75 to 50, we don't see that much of impact or the squeeze in or the additional liquidity availability with customers. More or less that is a no event kind of a scenario. We have not seen any significant impact of the reduced contract size on the overall volume or activity. Perfect. Got it. Madhukar, one of your questions was about digital acquisition and some flavor on trading activity, et cetera. See, it's a mixed experience, I'd say. One is, let's say some of the channels are quite nice. For example, organic channels, et cetera, we are getting quite a decent mix. In some of our other channels, so our experience is that you do get a pretty decent activation. That is for that first transaction when the customer is trying to learn the platform or we also help him to learn the platform by initiating the first transaction. How far is the second, third, fourth transaction or the subsequent transaction activity? That is something which we are still optimizing learning on. We are trying on various ways of engagement, learning the tricks of the trade. Therefore, it's a mix of these two elements. What Vijay also spoke about is that this is the kind of fine-tuning that we are trying to do, isolating some of the sourcing channels, whatever characteristics that we are getting in, let's say, 8 months, 12-month period, trying to optimize that mix further. Investing behind the first set of channels and maybe optimizing the second set of channels. Cost per acquire definitely is going down. It's not yet stabilized. Bear with us for maybe a quarter or two. We will give you more color and disclosures around that as well. I think right now it's not yet the final stage. I would rather maybe wait for one or two quarters to come back and share with you some of the analysis on that. Right. No, that's it from my side. All the best. Thanks. Thank you, Madhukar Ladha. Thank you. you. The next question is from the line of Nidhesh Jain from Investec. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. A couple of questions. First is, there is a sharp improvement in yield on recurring assets in the Private Wealth Management business. What are the drivers for that? Anupam, you want to comment? Yeah, sure Vijay. Thanks. For us, our focus both has been on recurring and transactional. Specific to your question on what's been the components of our recurring income. Essentially anything that gives us consistent revenue, so it could mean mutual funds, it could mean our AIF Category and PMS where we get trail income, and it also includes your ESOP funding and the MTF book as well. Combination of all of these products comprises of the recurring income. There our yields have improved given the enhanced focus on all of these products. Understood. Can you share monthly active users or daily active users on your app? How that is panning out, and any absolute number that you can share? Again, we've yet to give these numbers out, but we can tell you that these numbers are increasing quite in an encouraging way compared to what we were last year to this year. We were nearly 2x at the same time on a yearly basis. Sure. Sir, lastly, can you share the customer acquisition cost in this quarter? In ARPN, how much cost we have incurred in acquiring new customers? Yeah. Can everyone else who's not speaking kindly mute? There's a lot of background noise. Thank you. It will be on the order of about INR 25-30 crores. 230 crores? Between INR 25 crore-INR 30 crore, INR 30 crore. Okay. Thank you, sir. That is it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Arash Arethna from IIFL. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Am I audible? Yes, please. I just had a couple of questions. One is on the insurance yields. If I do your insurance income premium divided by the amount distributed, so the yield on insurance has increased this time. What is driving that? Secondly is, what part of this insurance income is now could you just split between ICICI and HDFC Life is the life insurance? Lastly, the Prime fee. You disclosed Prime and others combined. Could you share what is the Prime fee out of that? Yeah. I'll take the questions one by one. Yeah. First is, the reason for yield increase is higher the proportion of premium, the new business premium. As you know that new business premium has a higher yield. We have registered a strong growth in insurance new business policies, both on a sequential and on a YOY basis. That has improved the mix of the premium towards new business premium, and therefore the yields have gone up. That's point number one I think you asked. Second, you asked that what is the breakup of Prime fee. Just as a ballparkish also I'm doing, and I'll tell you the exact number as well. Ballparkish is that we have about 8.5 lakh Prime subscribers now. On an average, we earn about INR 900 odd rupees on Prime subscription, and that gets amortized over 12 months. This is a ballparkish formula, and the exact number is about INR 17 crores as compared to about INR 12 crores same quarter last year. Let me remind you, this is the amortized portion for this particular quarter. If you have, let's say, INR 900 for one full year, you will take 900 divided by four in one quarter. That portion is about INR 17 crores, and that keeps on growing as the content keeps on growing. Got it. You also had one more question. I'm sorry I missed the third question. Yeah. I don't know if you'll have shared, but any sense on how the HDFC Life sort of that tie-up is panning out, and what contribution of that is in your life insurance revenue? It has been a quarter. It's starting up well. There's a lot of training sessions, et cetera, that have already happened. There is a lot of traction. The product basket has also got enhanced. In terms of overall contribution, I think it'll still be early. It is more in the pipeline building stage than anything meaningful to the numbers. Got it. Sure. Thanks. That's all from me. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Digant Haria from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, sir. My question is, I think we discussed this, that our strategy seems to be really working well in the cash equities. F&O, maybe we are still a little away. Just wanted to check if this new acquisition that we did and I think it was mentioned that the new generation wants this whole futures and options in the gamification format. Is this one of the big way in which we can engage the new customers in this whole futures and options part? Is this one of the areas where we were lacking, and are we plugging it through this? That's my only question, sir. Otherwise, congratulations on a good set of numbers. Thank you, Digant. Thank you very much for your encouraging words. You're absolutely right. I think we still have a lot more effort and work to be done on the F&O side. We recognize that. We are seeing basically three themes of expectations that a customer has got if you really have to make a mark in the F&O space. One is, of course, the pricing, which is very important. I think we've sort of met that expectation pretty clearly. You need a bunch of propositions and tools to facilitate this trading. I think that is an area that we still have a way to go. We have identified a bundle of tools which are getting integrated and created onto our platform one by one. I believe that we are probably 25%-30%, maybe 40% at best, of where we eventually want to get to. We believe this will take another couple of quarters, because with every passing fortnight, we are adding more and more tools, more and more capabilities to facilitate trading-based actions on our platform and site. The third is access to a platform in a very easy and a simple and a very new age style. Here also, our launch is very new and many of the tools that are there on our website are yet to be actually integrated onto our ICICIdirect Markets. If you ask me, it's at least 90 days to 180 days from today when all these actions, and you can trust me, it's a very fierce focus within the company apart from cross-sell. I'm monitoring it on a weekly basis. We are quite optimistic that once all these initiatives are taken, you will see an impact on market penetration. That said, I can assure you that derivatives we are growing. We are growing in revenues, we are growing in volumes, we are growing in customers, all. The idea is to grow faster than market. That is where we have work to do. Having said that, the new acquisition that you said is not merely limited to derivative and F&O. It is a more wider spectrum, the way we see it, which is spanning cash equity, which is spanning surely F&O, and which is also spanning engagement in a social connectedness style, where you could follow, copy, blog, all of those. Those capabilities today don't exist in a platform like this in the country today. Right. Sir, thank you so much. That is such a crystal clear explanation that unless we get the other two levers fully on, which is the tools for helping the traders and the access to website in a new age way, I think comparing ourselves to other derivative-only brokers would actually be comparing apples to oranges. Sir, maybe two quarters or three quarters later, I'll just ask you again if now you are fully ready, and then maybe that comparison will be really logical to make. Is it like that? Absolutely. We don't have to wait for two quarters. We'll keep coming back even sooner than that. Right, sir. Great, sir. All the best to your team. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vijay Karpe from Cranston Investment. Please go ahead. Mr. Vijay Karpe, you may please go ahead with your question. As there's no response from the current participant- Hello. Yes, sir. You may go ahead. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. My question pertains to the mutual fund business. The AUM has grown, I think upwards of 40% compared to the overall market growth of 80%. What has been the reason for the weak growth? Has it been because our focus has been more on insurance and also because of the direct plans coming in for HNIs, as you mentioned? No. Actually, the growth in mutual fund business is not on account of direct plans. Harvinder, why don't you? Yeah. You have seen the growth in AUM, even if you look at AUM market shares and all that, we have grown or been stable. I think two things. One, on the overall gross flows basis, there has been an increase in our share as well. Yeah, that is purely non-direct. That gross flows market share improvement is non-direct. It's led by our Markets app. Yeah. A couple of things that we are doing over here. If you look at the mutual fund business, it is getting more granular. There has been a good growth in SIP. There also the market share has gone up from 3.4%- 4%. If you look at the number of SIPs which are live at the quarter end, they have touched almost INR 9.2 lakh, which is the ever highest. It used to be about INR 6.5 lakh- INR 7 lakh sometime back. In terms of flows also, there has been a growth of about 40%-45%. In terms of shares, et cetera, we are increasing. Although, yes, direct plan is also one of the factors which is kind of having an impact in terms of flows, and especially in the HNI segment, which is where, as Vijay mentioned, we are experimental of piloting with proposition based on direct plan for HNI. Yeah, much of that number is not visible in this. It will probably come in the future. It is a very recent introduction. Correct. What you've seen is actually everything to do with non-direct. One more element I want to add is that our new Money App, that is helping us acquire new to MF category customers. There, the number of customers that we used to get for mutual funds on a monthly basis, that has registered a strong growth of about 30%- 40% from our earlier than Money App uptake. Some of these factors are helping in growth. Shares actually have improved in the mutual fund business. The second reason, in addition to all these gross flows improvement and share improvement, SIP improvement, we have also been benefited by the market improvement, the AUM because of market growth. That also helps. Got that. I have one more last question. You talked about the MTF book growth, and that was also related to the calls which we had given, somewhere close to 30 number of calls with a strike rate of 96%. How does this work? How do we give calls which includes MTF inside them? Is this allowed? Yes, that is my question. I mean, two kind of calls which are given by research team. There were 30 such calls which came under a margin funding trades. This is part of the research recommendation, there is no kind of prohibition in giving such calls. They give individual stocks calls also and also MTF portfolio. A set of a thematic four, five stocks portfolio will be recommended for customers to build. We are productizing that also in next couple of months, when with a single click, customers will be able to execute a set of four or five stocks under MTF. I mean, both individual calls as well as the portfolio calls are given by research team. It has a very wide followership also now. Vijay, if I may just add what Vishal was also trying to explain is that there's no one factor which has led to our growth and success of MTF. There are three, four contributing things which are additive with each other. They have come together in creating an ecosystem where an investor is choosing this product proposition with ICICI Direct. One of them is the research is also enabling, the product is fully automated and productized. The interest rates are attractive. All of these, when they are coming together to create a unique proposition, which is leading to acceptance and growth by our clients. I've got that. Thank you so much for answering my questions, and congratulations again on the great set of numbers. Thanks, Vijay. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Shah from Carnelian. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on good set of numbers and very heartening to see the client addition numbers as well. I had few questions. First question is, there's been lot of chatter around the client addition number, which has been trend across the industry, right? Just wanted to understand how do you look at the cost of acquisition for these new customers from Tier 2, Tier 3 cities or first-time customers. Cost of acquisition and the lifetime value of the customer or how does the economics work, and how you guys look at it when you focus on acquiring these new customers? Hello. Yeah, hi, Kunal. Harvinder here. Two things over here. One is, Tier 2, 3 or Tier 1. See, the process is digital. What we are trying to reach is through digital media. We have not seen a very meaningful difference in cost of reach out because we don't rely on any phygitality in any further process in the marketing stage or the onboarding stage. That is point number one. Point number two, definitely the equation of CAC by LTV, that holds. That holds for our industry, and I mean, it's a huge ratio because if you have a longevity spanning many years, you don't have any further cost of carrying and you have payback periods At a company level, as I said, around 12 to 13 months at a company level. That equation is definitely there. That is how the economics work, because after 12, 13 months, whatever revenue you get is completely getting contributed to the bottom line. Coming specifically to the digital channel, as I explained in the last question as well, mix of channels which we are using, every channel has different economics, different customer personas. We are optimizing that, investing behind channels which have sustainable quality and trying to optimize channels which have less than sustainable quality. That has been our approach. Even within digital channels also, we are seeing month-on-month, the cost per acquisition coming down, and this is going to be our approach. Basically, if I understand correctly, are you saying that basically whenever a customer is acquired digitally, you have a break-even, so to say, of about 12 to 13 months. Is that understanding correct? Let me clarify, Kunal Shah. Each of our customers, our entire customer base right now is getting acquired digitally and as a process it is digital. Within that, there is digital marketing related aspects and then the customers getting acquired through our own branches, through ULIPs and banks, through our partners, and so on, so forth. There are a multitude of distribution channels which are helping us acquiring customers. If you take all of them together, we do have a break-even period in the range of about 12-13 months. Digital would be higher. For digital, I made this comment that the digital acquisition channel as a sourcing channel, there the cost per acquisition is coming down month on month, and we are trying to optimize the same. Oh, okay. That 12 to 13 months is at a overall portfolio level. That I wanted to be very clear on. Okay. Fair enough. The second question was the MTF book that has grown for us. Any industry color as to how the book has grown for the industry or is it specific to us that we have been able to grow this MTF book? Any color on that would also be appreciated. Yeah. Can I just request you to kindly mute? There's a little bit of a background. Yeah. Yeah. Two important variables which we always keep in mind, how do we increase number of customers in MTF? As I shared earlier, we have grown year-on-year as far as number of MTF customers are concerned. Second is our market share in MTF. Both, as far as market share is concerned, as well as number of customers, we have grown significantly. Today, as far as funding is concerned, the market share stands at about 21.8%, and a year back, this was just about 17%. This has shown a significant growth, and that has happened because of the entire ecosystem and the wider participation coming from customer and also fueled by the support given by market. Okay. If I understand correctly, the market has also grown, whereas our market share has improved from 17%- 21% on a year-on-year basis. Right? That's right. Got it. Just one last question from my end. The client addition numbers have been very impressive, and congratulations on that part. Even the industry, for that matter, has grown at a rapid pace. If you see the market share, I'm referring to NSE active client market share, it's still somewhere around 8.5% in that range for quite some time. Things have been working for us. If you could elaborate, what all new initiatives are we taking to kind of go to the next level now? That would also help to kind of gain market share now. I'll come in here, and I'll go back to what I've been saying for a long time. Again, our request would be don't get too carried away with the NSE active number as the sole number determining the strength and quality of franchise. That is true. You are over simplifying it. Please don't do that. Correct. Having said that, we've reached a stage where on incremental market share, I think we are in the ballpark of around 12% in the month of September. Interesting. When it comes to the new customer acquisition. Correct. We find that, as Harvinder has been explaining, there are multiple channels which are giving you addition to the new customers that we're acquiring, and not all channels have got the same quality. There are some channels where the quality is really nice and the numbers are much lower. Then there are others where the quality would be questionable as to whether it will sustain, not sustain, but the numbers will be very large. We don't want to get into this whole number game without having any emphasis on quality of franchise. While all of you, I understand, are very fixated on this number, internally, we look at it with lot of interest. We track it, we monitor it, but we don't hang ourselves for achieving those numbers. We are more fixated on stuff that you've been asking, which is quality, which is ARPU, which is longevity and factors like that. Today, I think we are yet to reach a stage where we have reached a stability on this. Given the fact that this whole journey is now about six quarters on the outer limit. Actually, realistically speaking, it is four quarters after the scale-up has started, which started effectively in the December quarter of last year. Give us some more time before we stabilize. Philosophically, I can tell you, we will be fixated on quality with growth, obviously. If it comes to growth of numbers and headline items, which all of you are tracking, we would not get too carried away with that headline number. We will still stick to quality and we'll give you quality. You'll feel better with that quality over the more media. I assure you that. Got it. Fantastic. Thank you and wishing you all the best, sir. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on MTF book again, because if you look at the interest income growth, it has been 89%, but the financing cost or the interest costs have grown by 104%. If I do a back calculation, the margin on MTF book, which was upwards of 3.5% maybe four quarters back, it has come down to 2.2. Do you believe these MTF margins will further come down or they have bottomed at 2.2% kind of levels? I just wanted to understand the thinking there. Yeah. Hi, Sanket. Harvinder here. Let me just start off by giving a brief rundown of the balance sheet. The way you have to look at it is that on the liability side, you have borrowing. On the assets side, you have MTFs as well as you have cash and cash equivalent, which is FDs, which are created for the F&O for margins. Right? Those are interest earning assets and this is the interest expense. Therefore the NIM is not directly related to only MTF. That's point number one. Point number two, the NIMs are in the same range of about 4%, because in your computation, you would have probably taken the entire expense cost, interest expense, and the interest income only of MTF. I think the right way for you to do it would be MTF plus ESOP plus FD interest income minus the total interest expense. That would be appropriate. There, if you do this calculation, and maybe I can take that offline also with you. Sure. it's about 4% NIM, which is the range that we have always been guiding. Okay. In simple words, there is no pressure on your margins with respect to MTF book then. Yeah. Sanket, I'll just step in and clarify. We are not fixated on single product. If it means that I have to compromise on margins in future, you can be assured that we will do that. We will remain competitive, we will remain cutting edge, and we will keep sharpening ourselves and innovating to remain relevant. Got it. The MTF- MTF as a proposition, the way Vishal has explained at length, is helping us acquire customers as well. This is not just a diversification. This is definitely doing a diversification job as well. It is a unique proposition which is helping us acquire customers as well. It is playing that role. That is a larger perspective. That MTF customer might be giving me brokerage revenues, might be trading in derivatives. He might be giving me margins. We look at ARPU kind of a relationship value, not product fee. That has been our approach. This is only within the equity universe, which is the equity and equity-aligned. That customer, because he is like a MTF customer, quite high quality, he will dabble into MF, insurance, cross-sell, et cetera. That is the approach that we look at. Assets, that's a new line. As Vijay clearly mentioned, that product yield is very narrow if I do that focus. However, technically and numerically, that NIM is right now at 4, but we are not fixated on that. That I think as an approach point for the division. Good. Yeah, great. That clears my doubt. Second, my question is more on OpEx. If I look at the other expenses, I see a very strong growth in second quarter. Also wanted to understand the employee cost trajectory going ahead. If I look at cost income ratio, it is now plateauing or settling around 45%. Just wanted to understand, are there levers left over to substantially improve beyond 45%? Just wanted to understand the other expense growth. What led to that kind of a growth basically? Yeah. Sanket, I'll take the second question first. If you refer to the presentation that we made at the Digital Day. Yeah. We have taken a guidance of about trying to reach 40% or less than 40% in the next couple of years. We do believe that there is operating leverage scope. I would not qualify to say whether it is by reduction of expenses or improvement of top line. We are definitely investing. It's linked to your first question. The growth in other expenses is only due to two elements which we have called out as investment areas. One is the tech expense and two is the marketing expense. Both these areas we are investing. These two you should see an expansion. Overall OPEX, more variable, that is the direction, number one. Number two, other than marketing technology or control of the fixed cost or at least optimization of fixed cost. Number two, ratio 45% tending to 40% over a couple of years. I will add that we are in investment mode right now. We are adding customers, which is front-loading costs. We are adding technology, we are adding people with specific skills, which will help again get amplification effect in the times forward. We are not shying away from making these investments where there could be front-loading. While Harvinder mentioned the guidance of about 40% more in the medium term, in the short term, again, there could be an expansion of these margins before the gains start floating in. We are pretty optimistic that the revenue flows which will come from some of the products like loans, like insurance, are still in a very early stage. All of this can make a big difference to the break-even dynamics in the next few quarters. Got it. Finally, if you can break down the mutual fund AUM growth, broken down into price movement and the net fresh money, not the gross money the net fresh money. 37% growth, what you have seen YoY or 10% sequential growth. Just wanted to understand, this is completely driven by the current market growth or market performance or we are seeing net new money also substantially flowing into our distribution this time? It's a combination, Sanket, of both market growth as well as net new money. Definitely, a higher proportion would be the market-related growth. One more thing that has happened is that yields have improved a bit because of a better mix of equity and debt for our mutual fund income. On a gross flow basis, we have already said that actually our market share has gone up on an overall basis. On a net sales basis also, roughly I would say, if you ask me or push me for a number, I'll say maybe 70/30 or 75/25 could be the attribution, factor attribution mark to market. Net new money. For market share, I'm saying, Sanket. Maybe I can come back to you with a more exact number, but it's about, let's say, 75, 25. See, Sanket, I'll just add one more thing. We are quite encouraged with the fabric of this growth because the growth has come through granular means. The net growth is not as good as the gross growth because we are seeing a little bit of lumpy migration which we described, the HNI lumpy migration towards direct plans. I think obviously the granularity takes more difficult to grow, which is fortunately showing good growth and you've seen a 60 basis point improvement in this market share, which always helps from a slightly medium-term perspective. Clearly the gains that will come through granular growth comes with a little passage of time which will offset the HNI lumpy decline, which in any case we are absorbed it and we'll continue to absorb it through a direct plan and get revenues through non-mutual fund sources. Got it. For which we described that the pilot is on. Got it, sir. Thanks. That is all from my side. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi sir, good evening. Congrats on great set of numbers. Firstly, a clarification on the MTF book again. When you mentioned that in your wealth business also there is an MTF that is completely separate from the MTF numbers that you mentioned from the retail book, right? Just a clarification there. No, Prayesh. I'll clarify. The wealth revenue, wealth assets is a subset of the respective product lines. It is subsumed in that. It is for those 60,000 odd clients that we have individually who have assets of more than 1 crore, which we call as our wealth franchise. Whatever activity that we do, as these clients do, we aggregate that and that is the revenue that you see under the wealth franchise. If they are doing MTF that will be under wealth and aggregated under the overall AUM. It's a part of that. Okay. All right. Got that. It is a customer-facing cut of our business, of our top 61,000 clients. Okay. when you mention the MTF book, it's a combine of all the customers? Yes. It's a company-level MTF book. Okay, got that. Second, just a view on the institutional business. Are we losing market share there and what's the outlook there? Sir, come again, Prayesh. Which business you mentioned? Institutional brokerage business. Institutional brokerage business, the market share has been flattish. In fact, for the month of September it has grown annually. For July and August, yes, there was a bit of a decline on account of certain rebalancing that happened over global index rebalancing which is an event where we lost some market share. Overall, for the quarter, it has been flattish. Okay. Lastly, on the employee cost front, do you see the employee cost to income ratio rising from the current level in the next two quarters and then possibly the benefit of operating leverage coming in? It's possible, Prayesh. Right now you're looking at it 20%. If you refer our earlier conversations, I have guided for maybe a 2% or 3% percentage point expansion, which is possible. We are investing some of the areas in technology, data analytics, digital marketing. These are some places where we are making people-based, skill-based investments. Okay. It is possible. Although for the last two, three quarters, it has been in this range of 20%, 21%. As a guidance, I would still consider maybe a 200 basis point expansion possible. All right. Thank you so much for this. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Jain from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Thank you. One on the direct mutual funds for HNIs. Could you talk about how it'll work? Will it be part of some subscription that will be offered to them? On their platform when they log in, they will automatically get direct mutual funds? Yeah. Anupam, you want to just comment? He's dropped. I think Anupam has dropped. Okay. Anupam has dropped out. You're right. It is being piloted with a select set of customers, so it is pre-identified list. It is being made available only to the pre-identified list in two ways. One is on login and on access through RM. There is no subscription fee. It is free. Got it. Thank you. The idea, Aditya, if I may just add a line, the idea is that these HNI clients have a preference towards direct plan, which they are anyways doing themselves. Those AUMs or assets are not coming to us anyway. Yeah. Actually, most of these are targeted customers who are residually left with very small exposures and they are sitting with multi-crore, multi tens of crores of rupees outside us. We are trying to win them back. Got it. These are not small numbers. The customers we are targeting are sitting on portfolios of north of 10s of crores. Yeah. Got it. Understood. On the increase in Neo subs, it's been fairly gradual. 100,000 you mentioned the last earnings call to 135,000 now. How can we see this change going forward? Is the uptake low because just less demand for that product, or is it still not a full quarter of clean onboarding journey? Yeah. The quantities here are encouraged by the consistent run rate. Neo is a product basically for the traders. Mainly derivative traders and also equity intraday traders. Whereas for cash customers, we have Prime, and Prime is multiple times of Neo. This ratio will always be there because even in market, number of cash customers are much higher than the trading customers. We of course are focusing a lot on the new acquisition and we want to increase the Neo contribution coming from this set of customers. We have seen some amount of success also in Q2. Out of the monthly enablement, almost 30% of the Neo customers are coming from the NC, the newly acquired customers. We want to augment this contribution going forward also. At the same time, we remain very focused on activating our dormant set of customers and also customers which we acquired in earlier years. Every such new proposition launch gives us an opportunity to reach back to those set of customers and activating them. This is how the Neo strategy will unfold in coming months. Got it. Understood. On slide 14, you commented earlier that cash market share is improving but derivative is yet to see traction. If I see slide 14, in September we've had the phase IV come in and yet I see market share improve in both equity and derivatives. Just trying to reconcile that with your statement earlier. It sounds like market share is improving even despite new norms fully going in. Is that the right reading? Actually, if you recollect when we had the new margin norms kick in last December, we had a big impact in the first phase. Yeah. Thereafter, we said that with every passing phase, the impact will be less and eventually we expected that by the third, we would have no impact, logically, which is what has happened. First phase, we had the maximum impact because we provided the highest level of leverage through our platform, given our risk management capabilities. The salience of the platform enabled us to take larger risk positions with customers and that is something that got impacted because of the new margin norms. By the end of the second, the differential advantage that we had enjoyed got completely nullified. It was even Stevens as we used that word at that point. Therefore from third and fourth, it was business as usual because everyone got impacted identically. There was no differential impact, negative or positive. That is what is getting reflected in gains in market share as far as our retail equity is concerned. The numbers that you see on slide 14, I will remind you once again, it's a combined number and not only retail. If you dissect it, retail has shown a growth in equity and when you dissect derivative, we've not seen a similar trend in the derivative side. As I explained in one of the earlier questions that was asked, derivative still a lot of work to do. Yeah, definitely. On the HSBC Federal partnerships, is it like ICICI in the sense we don't get access to free float or does it work differently? Absolutely the same. Got it. All right. Those are my questions. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manish Poddar from Nippon India. Please go ahead. Sir, just one question then. Just on this loan disbursed, this INR 690 odd crores. What are other products can be launched under our ambit? Is there a plan, let's say, in the next 12, 18 months to launch other products alongside? Yeah, yeah, we have I could say detailed action plan on the loan side. The biggest flagship product is, of course, home loans. Apart from that, there are about 11 other loans that we are introducing which includes personal, which includes credit cards and which includes some of the other car loans and so on and so forth. It is coming on through our app called Money App. We should be beta testing it shortly and coming out with that completely integrated. We have also done a detailed segmentation of our total base of 63 lakh customers. We've done it some time back, so it was about 55 lakh customers in those days. We have mapped with CIBIL scores of these customers, what is the loans that has been taken through our company and what are the loans which are taken outside our company. There is a massive opportunity to reach out to the customers for balance transfers and so on and so forth. We'll be doing all of that. The opportunity is not small. Just to understand it, you'd be reaching out, let's say the mode of acquisition will largely be digital or will you have, let's say, a sales force leads which will go across to probably push across these products? We already have a sales force lead which we are actually digitizing right now. Right now it is more physical. The INR 690 crores you saw has actually got a fair amount of physicality to it. In a quarter or so from today, you will see a lot more digitality rather than physicality and over a period of time, you will see a lot more digitality because even today as we speak, loans is still a physical-digital process at best. There are only loans like personal loans which have got a complete physical capability, maybe credit card as well. Apart from that, when it comes to car loans, home loans, various other loans against property, et cetera, that you provide to self-employed businesses there is at best a physicality to it. From a physicality, we will be moving in a quarter to a physicality and eventually to digitality in the products which are digitalized. Digitalizable. Okay, got it. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kashyap Javeri from Emkay Global. Please go ahead. Thank you so much, sir, for this opportunity again. One question more on the industry point of view. If I look at us today, we have got INR 5.1 trillion of assets within client accounts and which would on active client basis be equivalent to about INR 20 or roughly about INR 2 million per client. On the broking side, if I look at our ADTO per client is significantly even lower than what we used to do earlier. Might be to do with the margin norms or the new norms which have kicked in. If I look at some of our competitors, their clients are not so wealthy and yet we see ADTO rising quarter after quarter. From the industry point of view, being an insider do you see this as one of the key risk over here that it's probably that the clients who are not so comfortable in terms of their net worth are getting into something that they don't probably understand properly? Kashyap, two broad comments on this observation of yours. One is, the structure of ADTO of industry, let me just maybe give you a lowdown. Out of the entire ADTO, roughly about 95%-96% of that ADTO belongs to the F&O segment. About 3%-4% of the ADTO belongs to the cash or equity segment. Which in a way is worse, right? I understand what you are saying, but in a way, this is worse than what it used to be. At 95%, this would be worse than probably derivatives being at probably 50%, 60%, 70%. No. This, I am talking about last three, four quarters. I am making a slightly different point. Let me just come to that. Okay. Within the 95%, 96%, again, 85% of the volume is by options. In options, what happens is that the notional value is called turnover. The ADTO growth can just be the optional turnover. It may not be really reflective of the underlying growth of the number of transactions activity. That is point number one. Point number two, with these new margin norms, at least that field has become level. Now for the same exposure, a customer might have to bring in his own net worth or own contribution, which could be, depending on which broker, et cetera, the customer is from, four to five times of what he used to do earlier. To a minor extent, the risk that you are highlighting that, is it all fluff, and are there so many people who do not understand and don't have net worth and still they are trading? I think that with these regulatory norms too, a lot of extent it has become harmonized across brokers. Yes, that is the reason why we say that holistically, if you look at couple of things, total assets, total trading activity, revenues, ARPU, you will get a fair idea. Not only, let's say, you are talking about ADTO as a single metric, or somebody is talking about NSE active as a single metric. I think single metric in isolation has some of these pitfalls. Sir, at the end of the day, if I am writing an option, it's as good as a leverage position, right? It doesn't matter if it's only the contract that I'm including or the contract value that I'm including over here. Yeah. When we look at the retail space, the large contribution in derivatives is coming in form of a buying option. Of course, the selling is also there. Once these peak margin norms kicked in, we see that retail customers are more buyers than sellers. Sellers, of course, it's more HNIs and having Demat asset, et cetera, who can contribute significantly for the margin. They are the people who are seller. I would say that retail largely is in buying option histories rather than selling. Selling on the other side, there are prop traders, the institutional, there are affluent big HNIs, et cetera. This is how the market construct is. Okay. One last clarification. In your wealth management revenue, the transactional and ARR, any parts of it is included in the other line items like brokerage and distribution and others? All the parts are included, Kashyap. For example, brokerage of a wealth client, plus mutual fund income of a wealth client, plus a loan distribution coming from a wealth client, all that put together is this number of INR 249 crore that we have shown. Okay. The same brokerage will also be brokerage as a product line item. What I was trying to explain earlier in a question is that we have tried to give you a sense of how our wealth customer franchise, which are 61,000 customers out of the 2.5 million customers that are active for us, 61,000 customers, each of them having assets more than 1 crore, what level of activity and what level of asset they have done with us. At the top end of the pyramid, how we have been able to engage, this disclosure is about that. All this revenue is also in the respective line items, mutual fund, loan, et cetera. Sure. Thank you so much. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Chandok for closing comments. Yeah. Thank you so much for a very engaging discussion. Yeah. Thank you so much for all your que- Excuse me, sir. I think you are breaking. Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a disruption in the voice. I'll repeat again. I just wanted to thank you all for an engaging discussion and all the questions that you've asked. In case there are a few of the listeners who had some questions which is not yet completed, please feel free to reach out to us separately, and we will do our best to answer and respond to all your queries and questions. Thank you very much. Take care, and have a good evening and a wonderful rest of the week. Thank you so much. Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, we conclude today's conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.