Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the ICICI Securities Limited earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal for an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Chandok from ICICI Securities. Thank you and over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. A very good evening to all of you, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to ICICI Securities third quarter earnings call for fiscal 2022. Well, I'm sure that by now you would have already perused through our quarter three results and also the presentation which was uploaded. I'm encouraged to report strong growth across all business segments. Our headline revenues came in at about INR 941.9 crore, marking a YOY growth of 52% and a sequential revenue growth of 10%. Further, our profit after tax, as you would have seen, has grown by about 42% on a YOY basis and 8% on sequential basis, and stacked up to INR 380.3 crore. I would now like to share my thoughts on our industry segment and the performance of the company in that context. Well, as you've all been following, the current fiscal has been strong for all our business segments. The retail participation has been strong, leading to growth in market volumes. The flows into mutual fund industry turned positive this fiscal, and the primary market activities have also been very encouraging and strong. The current quarter continued on this theme by and large, although I would say that there are signs of moderation that are becoming apparent. The retail client additions for the industry, whether you look at it in terms of NSE active clients or total number of Demat accounts, were strong in this quarter compared to last year and also the sequential previous quarter. Within the quarter, the trend of sequential month decline was visible in each of the months. Similarly, on trading volumes, the quarter witnessed moderation in equity volumes, and this moderation was actually more pronounced towards the months of November and December. Derivative trading volume, although continued the growth momentum, did see some moderation in the rate of growth relative to the previous quarter. We are also seeing that the pricing pressure in the industry is now settling down, and the entire focus of the market players has clearly shifted to providing better experiences rather than playing the pricing game. The other noticeable trend clearly is the consolidation of clients and volumes with digital players in the industry. With regards to investments into various financial products like mutual funds, the industry, as I mentioned, witnessed a growing traction. Monthly flows into mutual funds grew year-over-year and also registered a sequential growth. SIPs continued to show an increasing traction within the industry, recording the highest ever quarterly flow. We've all seen primary market, capital market activity has witnessed heightened levels with respect to the total number of deals done and also the total number of funds raised. As far as the regulatory area is concerned, some noteworthy developments were the directions relating to the T+1 settlement cycle implementation as opposed to the T+2 settlement cycle. On this front, we are gearing up our systems to comply with the regulatory guidelines and we are on track for that. There has also been deferral of directions requiring brokers to keep a minimum 50% margin with the exchange in the form of cash. This regulation does not really impact our operations since we've always maintained 100% margin in cash with the exchanges. There has also been an RBI direction which actually asks banks to align the lending products offered by their subsidiaries with those that are applicable to the banks. The impact of this is that the ETF financing product is now going to be capped at INR 2 million per client, which is the limit applicable for bank loans. Against this backdrop, our financial performance for the quarter, as you would have seen, has remained reasonably encouraging with growth across the businesses. During this quarter, I would specifically highlight that our client additions remained strong. The clients added during this quarter actually stacked up to the whole of the entire amount that we did in terms of new client acquisition last year. Digital transformation has been helping us gain scale of younger clients. 68% of new clients actually came in at an age of 30 or below, and 87% of new clients coming in from the tier two, tier three cities. We are keeping a close eye on quality as we are growing this franchise because we do understand that these clients may not have the same monetization capability at least in their initial years as some of the clients that we acquire through other channels which typically have a more affluent starting base. However, gradually, again, we are encouraged to see that, with respect to the digital cohort, we are now already seeing that there has been a build-up of revenue, which has led to a situation where the monthly burn has become negligible, on account of direct marketing costs and the burn actually now includes only some indirect costs, to this cohort. Our focus, on this front actually is to continue to focus on improving the digital marketing efforts so that the client profile and the mix improves in favor of better and better R2s and better and better quality. As far as equity business is concerned, we were able to grow as well as diversify our revenues. In this front, you would have noticed that the total equity revenue, the allied part of the total equity revenue has started now contributing 34% of the equity franchise and continued the strong growth trajectory in this quarter as well. In respect of our market share, the retail equity market share remained range bound. You know, in the numbers you would have seen a slightly declining trend, but you can attribute that largely to the institutional side, with retail remaining largely range bound. Our market share in derivatives has somewhat stabilized post the implementation of the last phase of margin norms in the month of September. While our blended derivative volume market was broadly in line with the industry, we continue to focus on implementing initiatives to enhance proposition for investors as well as traders. We believe that these initiatives will help us improve our market standing in the next few quarters to come. As far as our distribution business is concerned, there was a good growth in revenue driven by mutual funds. We registered market share gains both sequentially and YOY for flows in debt and equity taken together. We also feel satisfied with the strong growth at a granular level in SIP count and SIP flows, market share due to our efforts through the launch of the Money App, which is now gaining good acceptance. As far as the insurance business is concerned, premium growth on a sequential basis has somewhat shown signs of flattening. We are working on multiple prongs to harness the entire insurance opportunity and creating better journeys, enhancing the product suite and integrating with the insurers, improving customer experiences and bringing it all on the Money App. We've also been focused on improving the distribution of assets, and the processes are being worked on to go from being merely digital to becoming more integrated with the partners, and we've also been able to make some progress on this front. As far as the issuance services and advisory business is concerned, there was a good growth on a quarter-over-quarter basis. We became the first Indian lead manager to top the equity deal table. Strong pipeline is there across IPOs, across FPOs and venture re. We are cognizant of the fact that this primary market tends to have an episodic character, and this could moderate in future. However, in such a context, we continue to focus our efforts on improving the recurring segments of our business in this area, which is basically QIPs, blocks and advisory. Overall, to summarize, our approach continues to keep investing in fundamental input levers that will help us build sustainability and build scale. We remain committed to handholding our clients through their financial journey and improving client experiences through the ISEC ecosystem. Therefore, there's a big focus on investing in next gen technology capabilities to stay ahead of the curve. We are conscious of the elements of our business model being cyclical, and this therefore could mean that we face short-term headwinds. However, we continue to believe that the medium-to-long-term story of the industry remains strong and intact. We continue to focus on building up fundamental levers that would drive de-cyclicality for our franchise and continue to doubling down on building granularity in our business. We look forward to this momentum and capitalizing on the opportunities in the medium term. I'm gonna end my commentary now. Thanks for patiently listening. We'll open the call now for any questions that you may have. Thank you. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much, Mr. Chandok. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. To ask a question, please press star and one. The first question is from the line of Aditya Jain from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Thank you. You've disclosed in the presentation that market share in incremental Demat accounts is 7%. For context, sir, could you talk about the market share in the stock of Demat accounts. Yeah Yeah. It'll be of the similar order, Aditya, about 6%. I can quickly confirm it to you. It'll be of the similar order. Total about 1 crore accounts were opened in the quarter, of which about 6.86 lakhs those that are opened. On the overall, Demat also it'll be of the similar order. I'll just confirm it to you. Got it. Thank you. 6%. The way to see the gap between this versus the market share in stock of NSE active clients is that we broadly have a more active client base or a better activation rate. Right? That is the bridging metric, or is there something else going on there? No, that's right. If you take the NSE active overall population by Demat, that would be the industry activation rate versus ours. Ours would be slightly better. Got it. Could you talk about the number of clients who are on NEO now? Sorry if I missed it in the presentation, but I haven't been able to look at it. NEO base now is about 1.8 lakh customers are there. Got it. Just lastly, the retail equity market share. You mentioned that that is largely stable. Where is this? I think we had a similar comment last quarter also. What is the number and how has it moved Q-over-Q, if possible? Actually, if you look at our retail market share, it is similar to what we saw last quarter. It's been in a flattish trend. There is a few efforts, I would say, that are being introduced which will help us in our market share, particularly in the intra-day side, which include certain products which are actually not there. You know, for example, T+5 as a proposition we don't offer. We are gonna be bringing that out fairly shortly. There are certain expansion of shares as margin, you know, shares which can be used as support for providing margin. We are broad-basing that. One particular sub-product that we offer to our clients does not have this shares as margin at all. That's being introduced. A slew of initiatives are planned both on the equities and the derivatives side, which will sort of reinforce both these ends of the pipe, both these segments of the market. Many of them have started getting implemented. Many of them will be coming in this quarter, for quarter four and quarter one. I think a quarter or two thereon, the impact should be visible. In fact, when you look at derivatives, we already are seeing some uptick visible in market share in the month of December, on a sequential basis. It's still early days. Got it, sir. That helps. Those are my questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Hello, am I audible? Yes. Mr. Ladha, please go ahead. Yes, sir. Congratulations on another great quarter. A couple of questions from my side. If I look at the quarterly broking revenues, they are flattening out and at about INR 392-INR 393 crore. Now, I wanted to understand where is this really happening. In which segment? Is cash not growing or is it options? Broadly, it could be these two, because futures is very small, is my guess. Some comment on that. Second, our cash market share is down to about 8.3%. Last quarter it was 8.8%. Anything to read in over there or any comments over there would be helpful. Thanks, Madhukar. I'll come in and Harvinder can sort of continue this part. Thanks for your comments on the numbers. Yeah. When you look at the equity broking again, I think we had mentioned this earlier, and if you recollect our strategy, we have long said that, you know, broking alone as a singular line item is not an area that you should be tracking us because we are deliberately adding a bunch of non-broking equity-related revenue pools. If you look at the non-broking equity revenue pools combination, both on a YOY and sequential basis, you will see a larger number. I would not be singularly looking at you know broking as a line item on its own because it really doesn't matter if the money the company's earning with providing a product which is right for the customer, whether it is MTF, whether it is a Prime fee that he pays or you know some of the other charges that he uses under certain plans, and he uses shares as margin and so on and so forth. It really should not matter to me that it should necessarily come out of broking. Please, my request would be to look at it in that context, and you'll see a sequential growth and a YOY growth on equities cohort. Having said that, I think, specifically to your question on cash, let me just briefly dissect what happened in this quarter. Actually, October was a very decent month in terms of both volumes and market share. November and December, if you look, both of these months had shown a moderating impact as far as cash equity were concerned. The volumes are there in the market. And on that side of the market, I would say that, there has been, you know, we are actually, you know, when cash goes, does well, we do well. That is something which was not too sort of favorable in November and December. That to an extent impacted our market share. Otherwise, you would have seen a sequential growth in market share. You know, that's the way it was all foiled. We are actually beginning to see an uptick already in this current quarter, though it is only 15 days thereabout. I would say that the mix in the period that just got over was relatively less conducive for our construct of business mix, which is the areas of our strength. Our view of the market share in that particular context, as far as equity is concerned. Harvinder, is there anything that I missed out? You want to just close this? Vishal here. We've got two more time plans just 15 days back and received a very warm response from our customers. The entire prepaid, which is also, you know, a favorite product for the cash and MTF customer that also underwent a complete remaking and the new plans have been launched. I think very early days of this new plan and considering the response we got, I think in this quarter, which is a running quarter, we should really see a good participation coming from them. Also to capture more customers, Simon, there is a remarketing effort which is going on. We have a team which looks at each and every customer who shows little bit of interest in cash, MTF and other equity products. We reach out to them and kind of try to onboard. Vijay Chandok already briefed about the new product 3+5, which is in making, and hopefully we will be able to offer a better leverage, you know, because it's only five-day product and it doesn't fall in MTF definition. Better leverage without hassle of creating pledge. We already have brought shares as margin or collateral in one of our key products. That went live just couple of days back. Keeping in mind all the initiatives and few more which are in pipeline, I think, you know, everything should play out in the current quarter. Sure. Just one final question. In the opening comments, you mentioned that, obviously, this business goes through cyclicality and especially the investment banking piece of it. You know, what can you share some color on, you know, what could you do in case next year is a tougher year? Maybe if you can quantify how much control over costs you could get. What is the reduction scope over there? Yeah. I will start and then, Harvinder, Ajay, you can come in and close. Just to tell you're very right in saying that, investment banking has an episodic nature, not necessarily cyclical, it can be episodic. In that context, first we have to view that investment banking side, the overall cohort is approximately 15%-20% of our total revenue and profits on an average, and historically, that's been the sort of mix. That's point number one. Point number two, when you look at the total cohort of this 20%, you will find that there are broadly elements which are more granular and more repeatable, which is institutional flow business. Then there is an element which has got an episodic nature, the split between the two, broadly, you could say anywhere between 10% and 10% of the remaining 20% or, you know, 12% and 8% in that kind of a ballpark. Where 8% is predictable and 10%-12% has got this sort of episodic nature. Within this episodic nature, what we are endeavoring to do, there are certain more predictable elements. For example, QIP. If you see QIPs and you look at the BFSI space, you will find that if you have a good coverage to the, let's say, top 50 BFSI companies in the country, there is a very decent chance that someone or the other is in a capital raise cycle once every three years. So 50, you'll get three. You'll get number of opportunities every year coming out of this BFSI. So that's a franchise we have consciously strengthened in the last three years, you know, by building coverage, by building research capability there. It is clearly reflected by the fact that, you know, we have a market share north of 90% in the BFSI space when you look at the fund raises that have happened in the last 18 months. We have a strong presence there. The presence sort of in a way nullifies or mitigate the impact of episodic businesses being sort of less visible in a particular year. That's one element of strategy. The second element of strategy is growing franchise, particularly on advisory side of the business, where you know we are seeing that there is a growing opportunity, particularly in the tech space. Tech space side we have increased and augmented people as well as skills there. If you look at our total cost structure and the flexibility there, maybe, Harvinder, you can come in and elaborate what percentage of our manpower costs have a fixed nature and what are variable nature because the variable nature actually ramps down in case of performance being sort of short. Maybe, Harvinder, you can just come in and elaborate that please. Sure, Vijay. At an overall level, now we have moved to a cost structure where about 57% of our costs are variable. They depend on some or other parameters, which could be either market linked or volume linked or customer linked. Within employee cost also, somewhere between 25%-30% of the costs are in the variable category. That definitely gives us one of the leeway. I would just add to Vijay's point while he spoke about diversification in the investment banking revenue. Overall, also as a theme, diversification is playing out. Within the equity business we have put out that consistently from 9% to now 35% of the revenues have started coming from non-brokerage business. Our distribution income mix overall is growing to about 17%-18% now. The lines are getting thicker. Trying to create more lines, at the same time having more variable component in the cost to give us headroom to manage either a episodic or a cyclical turn. Got it. Thanks. Thank you guys, and all the best. Thank you, Madhukar. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vidhi Shah from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. I just have one question. Of the new clients acquired, how many will be new, so basically first time they have opened their Demat account, and which product do they typically start off with? About 25% of our new customers are coming from, you know, the newly acquired customers and, the behavior is like, you know, one can see in cash as well as the derivatives segment. Individual customers are active in derivatives, they trade in cash. I'll say the equal amount of participation in both the segments. The number is about 25% of our new customers, you know, in new are coming from acquisitions. Okay. Thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Congratulations on the good set of numbers. First of all, I wish you all a very happy new year. My first question is on the, you know, possibility of our investment banking revenue sizing that you can provide us for, say, this year, at least from a full year perspective. We've seen a very strong trend in Q3 and Q4, some clarity there if you can help us understand as to what will be the size of the full year revenue. Yeah. Harvinder, you can come in there. On the investment banking overall sizing, it's difficult to get an overall revenue share. However, we do have a mobilization share. That's at about 68%, on obviously the league tables, we are leading over there currently on the ECM basis. Revenue market size, I mean, it's slightly difficult to estimate because it's a bit fragmented industry. Nothing from a formal disclosure. Okay. From a run rate perspective, do we see Q4 to be higher than what we've seen in Q3? Because Q3 was super strong numbers. The pipeline is pretty strong still. Yes, Ajay also explained that some of these things are episodic, and they do depend on sentiment in general. We have an 8% in kind of a pipeline right now. The way it will get monetized, I mean, we have to keep this in context that it has been last almost one and a half years where the fundraising activities has been quite high. In that context That we'll have to see. However, fundamentally, in terms of the kind of deals that we are taking, in terms of our role that we are playing across sectors, product equities, all those fundamental levers, we are investing in. The outcome obviously will depend on a lot of factors. Not all of them would be in our control. Pipeline is pretty strong, even currently. Got it. On the core broking revenues, as Madhukur also was mentioning about them being flat in the last 6-7 quarters now. Is the understanding correct that the mix of the customers are shifting from or the mix of the volumes have been shifting from the traditional business model to more fixed fee model for high-touch as well? Yeah. You know, again, broking as a singular line item is not an accurate way of understanding this total revenue opportunity from equities business. It's pretty much like saying that, you know, there is a flight from Bombay to Delhi, and I will only insist on what is the air ticket of a passenger. Because over time what has happened is that air ticket has gotten expanded by saying, you know, you need a meal, you want a corner seat, you want extra luggage and so on and so forth. It's pretty much similar what is happening here. My request would be to look at the total cohort of equity revenue, which includes you know, when you're availing. Earlier it was broking. You pay one broking, and everything else comes, you know, as a part of the package. Now it is activity-based pricing. The pricing models are now gradually morphing to become more activity-based. Obviously count all the activities that are performed by the customer and count all the revenues that that activity or performance generates as a cohort. Singularly, equity line item is an interesting thing to look at, but, you know, that's not what we are driving singularly, because that will be not right for the customer. You know, just driving equity, just driving brokerage when he is indeed looking for a lower brokerage, but willing to pay more by providing you float, by providing you a fee for a certain thing that he avails. Let him take that plan and let him pay as per that plan because that's what is his comfort. Please look at it as a cohort. Yes, you have seen seven quarters of sequential flatness, but just count the total fee and you'll see seven quarters of sequential growth actually. Because that's the strategy. The strategy is to deflate equity, the revenue, the broking yield and morph the business model to become a more broad-based, activity-based pricing model. Sir, as I said, where I'm coming from is the fact that, you know, the FII limit, the MTF book, which will have much higher cyclicality possibly than even the core broker's revenues, especially if the markets, say, go for a steep correction. Your MTF book also sees a sharper correction the way we saw it in, say, Q1 FY 2021. The book is run down, the prices are down. That is more cyclical in nature. How would you see the MTF book, you know, over a medium to longer term? No, no, you're absolutely right that this business has a cyclical nature, and that is a risk of this business in the short term. There is no running away from that. As management team, what are we endeavoring to do? We are endeavoring to diversify and add more and more product elements so that you are not singularly dependent on one or two elements for your revenue. That's the direction in which we are pushing the whole company. Not just into equity execution, but beyond equities getting more into other products. It's a journey and, you know, with every passing quarter, we are probably getting more diversified than before. The scenario that you outlined, can it happen? Yes, it can happen. Has it happened in the past? Last 10 years data we have put out, and we have seen that, looked at in a three-year kind of a horizon, we've seen a track record of about 20%+ CAGR of profit growth, in that ballpark. 17% kind of a ballpark, in a three-year kind of a horizon. There is intra-three-year cyclicality that we witnessed in the last 10 years of analysis. Three years as a block, we've seen consistent growth. That risk is there. Our endeavor is to reduce that intra-three-year cyclicality by the efforts that we are doing. We are in the middle of that process. Probably this quarter we are better than last quarter, and we'll hopefully be better in the next couple of quarters than where we are today on this. Got that. The last question is on the distribution fees, wherein, in spite of we adding a new partner in HDFC Life, on the insurance side, we've seen a decline in sequential revenues from life insurance business. What could be the trend trajectory going ahead, especially on the insurance side? No, you're absolutely right, and that's a great question. It's a very disappointing outcome that, you know, sequentially we've not grown our insurance business. In fact, we were hoping for a very good end of quarter in insurance, and our trajectory was inching very favorably till twentieth of December. You know, twentieth of December, we were way ahead of where we were on twentieth of the previous quarter last month, which is twentieth of September. The last 10 days, unfortunately, you know, because of the sudden outbreak of infection rates, the whole momentum got broken, you know, both at our end and also the customer end. Customers also just said that, you know, they just... We just couldn't capitalize on that momentum, and we landed up with a, you know, kind of a flattish to 3% decline actually to be accurate. Which is very disappointing. The pipeline is there. Those deals are not going anywhere. They will get done in January. People are recovering and closing deals. We are hopeful that it's a deferral rather than a loss. The pipeline looks pretty promising from quarter four perspective. You should see a sequential, you know, a clear sequential uptick from here. By the way, in the industry also, particularly with our partners, we noted that it has been a -1% scenario even for our partners' main partner, which is ICICI Life. That's the IRDAI number. The second partner actually is a 2%, kind of a growth. They've also had a very tepid period, is what I would say. You know, the physicality involved in closing these deals, unfortunately impacted the momentum in the last 10 days. Got that. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Harsh Aratna from IIFL. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, am I audible? Yes, you are. Please go ahead. Yes, you are. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to check, you touched upon that regulatory change where the RBI asked you to align your ESOPs financing product with the bank. Any idea on what sort of impact this would have from a revenue perspective in a quarter with this change? Yeah. Maybe Harvinder, you can just elaborate. Great. Yeah. The revenue impact could be of the order of about INR 15 crore-INR 20 crore on the gross basis. This is what we are expecting as an impact if we are not able to build that book. This is on a quarterly basis, right? This is for a period of time, Harvinder. INR 15 crore-INR 20 crore. Yeah. You have to say the period. Specify the period, please. This will be for a quarter on a gross income basis. Yeah. There's a second question on your total broking revenue around INR 392 crores. I think earlier we said that more than half comes from the cash segment. Does that still hold true? Also if you could give any, has this part within cash between intraday and delivery, has that changed over time, or is it part of and largely stable? Cash. Yeah, cash and delivery first in terms of volume mix. I think that has been slightly on a higher side over the last one year. Also what we've seen is that towards the end of this quarter, there we have seen a bit of a moderation on delivery. Overall it has been higher than last year in terms of the delivery proportion within cash. The second thing you asked was cash and F&O mix. Did I hear you right? I was asking about cash and derivatives in the revenue mix, not the volume. Yeah. Revenue mix for us, no significant change. Our revenue is more tilted towards cash rather than F&O, and that continues to be the scenario even now. Sure. Thanks. Those are my questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aejas Lakhani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, gentlemen. Thank you for the opportunity. Quick question first. Is my understanding correct that the ESOP book, which is whatever INR 6,600 crore now, that will remain constant from here on and this revenue that we have booked of INR 146 crore, you're saying unless we're able to grow this book, it should decline by INR 15 crore-INR 20 crore next quarter. Harvinder, is that understanding correct? No. Harvinder, please clarify. Yeah. Two clarifications over here. First of all, this book of INR 6,600 crores is MTF plus ESOP. Right. Both of them are included in this, of which MTF is the larger portion. There is no impact on MTF. The ESOP, which is a lesser portion, that will wind down. It will not be immediately next quarter probably, but no new exposures can be taken, but existing exposures will complete their tenure. Yes, eventually that would be the impact only arising out of ESOP and not MTF. MTF and that book continues to grow. We have a market share of about 22% over there, and that book even this quarter has grown sequentially. Got it. Could you give the revenue split or you're not sharing that, from the MTF portion and the ESOP portion separately? They're not put together, but let me just give you the majority. I mean, it's more than 80% of the revenue is MTF's. Majority of the portion. Sorry, could you repeat that? It's MTF. More than 80% is MTF. Okay, got that. The second one is a bookkeeping question. Actually, in the second quarter results, your other distribution product had a revenue of about INR 61 crore. This presentation you have reported that number as INR 43 crore. So could you explain that? What is the gap? Do you want to take that offline? Sorry, you're comparing what period? Can you just please repeat the period? Harvinder, what we're trying to really understand is that in your distribution income, this is the portion which is the non-MF distribution which comprises of, you know, how you report it as life insurance and other distribution products. That's correct, right? That's right. That is correct. If you look at this quarter, how you have reported the other distribution products for 2Q FY 2022, it's showing as INR 43 crore. Yeah. Last quarter you had reported this number as INR 61 crores. It's okay, we can take this offline. Yeah. Let me come back to you offline on this. My next query is that, you know, gentlemen, you know, our market share has been, if you look at it from quarter one of 2022, right? That number has been trending downwards and it's a little worrisome to me. I just like to know, you know, it moved down from 11% to now 8.3%. While the management has kept highlighting what's happened quarter-on-quarter, I'm just generally wanting to know how you think we should look at this, you know, because the number is being gradually declining. Oh, you're talking. Sorry, I missed. Your voice is a bit, the metric that you're talking about is, the- I'm talking about ICICI's equity share in the AGTO has come down from about 10 or 10.7% to 8.3%. If you look at it over the last seven quarters, it's been in a gradual decline stage. As an investor, this is obviously worrisome, but we'd really like you to sort of point out how we should be viewing this from your side. Sure. You're talking about the equity market share, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. So- Yeah, please go ahead. You'll have to explain it in the context of the MTF. Margin, yeah. The margin regime versus the new regime. Yeah, no, I'm following that. I mean, we followed you all through the conversation, and we're aware of all of that. You know, the fact that it's declining is that the- Yeah, I got you. You know, that's what I was saying. For the last quarter sequentially, I thought I explained that we have seen a flattish number when it comes to retail, right? You are seeing a combo of retail plus insti, which is showing a declining trend on a sequential basis. If you were to dissect it and look at retail versus retail previous, you'll find a flattish trend compared to on a sequential basis. Which means that the impact, adverse impact rather, of the margin, the new margin regime has been fully absorbed and we have started, I would say, seeing stabilization of market share, which actually improved in the month of October and then, you know, sort of moderated in the month of November and December because of the market conditions that I was explaining earlier, leading to an overall flatness in market share, and to offset that. Looking forward, obviously our endeavor would be now to having stabilized it and flattened it, is to show an improvement. Our efforts going forward is to show an improvement for which there is a bunch of initiatives that are planned within the company. Got it, sir. Yeah. Clearly our endeavor is not to see that trend going down, but to see that trend going up in terms of market share. Noted. All right, sir. ThankChandok Yeah. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Digant Haria from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hello. My question is on the margin trade funding book. Just wanted to know what are the limits of this book? Like, you know, can this book be INR 10,000 crore, INR 15,000 crore someday? Are there limits, you know, from, say, the rating agency or the regulator or the bank? All that is possible. That's question one. Question number two is, like, you know, what are the levers of excellence in this? We already have a good 22% market share. You know what? You know, are we working a lot on making it so much more easier so that, you know, more and more customers use this facility? Yeah, these are my two questions, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Arvind and Vishal, I think you can come in on both. Yeah. Definitely, I mean, MTF will, it's closely coupled with the market conditions also. I mean, the endeavor is to get new customers and also, as you rightly said that create a journey in such a way that product can be consumed while transacting. You would have seen one small addition which we have done in just last month. Today, when you place a buy order, during that journey you can decide whether you want to pay later or you want to pay the entire amount now. Now, that's a small change, but that has brought a very, very, you know, encouraging output for us. Secondly, two things are very, very important for these customers, and we continue to play on both the factors. One is the interest rate, because this will limit position and customer actually pays, say, 25% and take remaining amount or borrow remaining amount to create position. Interest is very, you know, important factor. Second is the brokerage. As I said that the new two Prime plans which we brought, those two Prime plans have not only better brokerage rates, but better interest rate also. We saw, I mean, the initial trend and very encouraging and few more initiatives are in pipeline. Basically, MTF book will also grow along with cash. I mean, it is, it cannot be seen in isolation. Those customers at times take position in cash and at times in MTF. We continue to leverage our existing customer base, simplify journeys so that product can be consumed by more number of customers, create attraction, you know, in interest rate, in brokerage plan, and attract new customers from markets. Effort would clearly be, you know, to scale up number of customers and also the book size. Digant, if I may come in on the limit, if any. The regulatory limit basically says that up to five times the net worth you can leverage. Today we are at, let's say about, INR 20 billion or INR 21 billion of net worth. Up to five times of that is the regulatory limit in that sense. As far as the rating, et cetera, et cetera, that is not a constraint. It's more of the net worth and five times the net worth. Up to that time is the maximum that we can do. Right. Thanks. Thanks, Harvinder and Vijay. One more question, if I may ask that, you know, in terms of customer onboarding for MTF, like, you know, how easy or you know, how well equipped are we versus the other players who are providing this MTF? My question is generally, you know, because if you look at the F&O volumes in India over last six years, it has been completely counter-cyclical. Like, there is no cyclicality in each of the last six years. The volumes just keep on going up. Maybe just because it has been made so convenient for people to do option trading. You know, can we do something like that in MTF? Like, you know, and maybe, you know, how easy would you rate your process for customer to, you know, onboard and start his journey versus where you would eventually want to be? Yeah. Digant, I mean, the MTF, today, if you really want to take position using this product, you don't have to do anything, actually. You simply, as you go and buy shares, just go on that screen and check. There's one checkbox which you have to tick. That's it. That's how the entire, I mean, the transaction happens. There is absolutely no bottleneck, no paperwork which is required, no additional online declarations to be given, et cetera. Because it is simple, I mean, the Q3 which just ended and we are discussing those results, was the ever highest, you know, in terms of number of customers opting MTF. On month-to-month basis also it was one of the, I mean, the last three months were best and on quarterly basis also. That is result of the simplification in journey which you rightly pointed out. Oh, nice. Digant, let me come in and add a couple of points. See, one thing is trying to remove cyclicality by the product like MTF and simplifying MTF. I don't think that is, that's the way we would, you know, sort of think about it because there are phases in the market when MTF is not a right product for the customer. It would be not right for us to, you know, pursue an MTF opportunity when the markets itself are trending downwards. Mm-hmm. To expect it to be kind of simple and you will be able to counter the counter-cyclical nature of the market would be stretching it too much. We wouldn't want to do something like that. We certainly want to show, give or provide a good experience. When we say good experience, not just of our availing the service, but also making money out of that service because that is what we believe will give longevity. That is important. That is why we actually in the last two months we actually cooled off a little bit when we saw that, you know, there was some uncertainty in the market. It is one of the elements of ecosystem that we have provided is research inputs. It has to be supplemented by a research input. Okay. Right, Vijay. Thank you. Thanks to the whole team and congratulations once again, you know, on fighting back in such, you know, really turbulent times. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you for your kind words. Thanks, Digant. Sorry, before we proceed to the next question, I'll just clarify one query that was asked by Ajit about distribution income. It is actually, if you look at it, there's an additional line of insurance income which is separately disclosed. So if you add insurance and others, you will get to the same INR 61 crore. I think that is probably the missing link. If you do excluding mutual funds, that income is INR 61 crore, which is you have to add other and life insurance. That I think is the comparison. But if there's any follow-up question, we can also take it offline. So maybe Thank you. Yes. Over to you. Next question is from the line of Kartik Sehani from Myriad Asset Management. Please go ahead. Okay. Hello, sir. First of all, wish you a very happy New Year. I just want to highlight the fees and commission expense, which has increased at about 77% year-over-year. Can you help me map this with the increase in your brokerage income, which was 8%, and again, your distribution income, which was around 55% growth? Yeah. Thank you very much. Harvinder, maybe you can come in and close this. Yeah, sure. This has three or four different type of elements over here. One is the two things that you mentioned, that we would have revenue share agreements with various partners which depend on partner specific revenue increases, et cetera. Secondly, this will also have the investment banking related revenue shares. If you'll see the investment banking revenues there, you could see a strong growth. Bulk of the increases are coming, also on account of investment banking, where we have pass outs pertaining to a distribution of fee. Okay. Thank you. In terms of your equity, you said that it should be looked at on an overall basis. I just want to understand what is your target for the ARPU? ARPU, right? You're talking about ARPU? Yes, sir, yes. What we have overall is not a very product specific target over here. What we try to do is that for a particular customer across the various product lines, how do you kind of maximize the opportunity? Today, for example, if you take not only equity but all the retail products taken together, we would be somewhere in the range of about 9,000-10,500 kind of an ARPU. What we try to do is service the customer holistically with the particular need. We don't have an equity ARPU target per se. The idea is that the clients with us should grow and the assets that our clients are keeping with us, they should keep growing. Because as and when that happens, that is a fodder with which we can earn any kind of a fee, either a NIM income or a broking income or a mutual fund fee or advisory fee, whatever name you call it. That is how we try to approach it. Therefore ARPU is an output of that. Okay. Understood. Thank you. Can you give me the number of branches that IIFL operating currently? Today we are at about 140-odd branches. 140 odd. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. 1:45 to be precise. Yeah. Thank you so much. Good luck for the future. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nidhesh Jain from Investec. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. The first thing. Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Jain, but your voice is a bit low. Can you speak a bit louder? Yeah. Is it right now? Better. Yeah. Yeah. First question is, on the, again, retail equities and allied revenue. There if I look at the breakup, this quarter we have seen very good growth on the MTF and ESOP part. Prime and others also, fee income also seems to be moderating, despite reasonable customer addition both on the Prime side as well as on the Neo platform. What are the reasons there? How do you see this trend playing out on the Prime and others, fee income? As far as Prime is concerned, as I said, we continue to, you know, have a robust set of customers coming in. In fact, Q3 saw the highest number of additions in Prime. Total Prime book today stands at little over 9.5 lakh customers. The heartening factor is more than 75% of the customers have gone for auto renewal, so they don't want even, you know, to come back again and make a renewal request. As I said that two more, you know, plans have been launched with some more attraction. I think it will be our endeavor, you know, to continue to build strength in Prime and the momentum must continue. NEO also, the daily run rate, monthly run rate et cetera, we are maintaining. We have seen some uptick only. Even NEO, I mean, we have not seen any kind of moderation. We see over 500 new customers opting for NEO on daily basis. Give or take, you know, two numbers here and there, but largely it is in the range, in the order of 500 daily. Nidhesh, just to add to what Vishal said, I think we also have to look at it in a context of what really is Prime. Prime as a proposition is a way to attract high intent customer. Because if a person has paid a subscription fee and then is joining a loyalty program like Prime, we have seen much higher ARPU. Therefore, our endeavor is to maximize the number of customers joining Prime. As a part of that, what we did over the last one year is we have introduced tranches of Prime. We introduced something called SOTA Prime about three or four quarters back at INR 299. We have recently also introduced some other variants of Prime. The idea is to get these high intent customers and then actually start seeing the result not only as subscription fee, which Vishal explained, but also as a high intent customer resulting in higher ARPU. That context also I wanted to give. Yeah. Tomorrow, if there is any other parameter which we can identify, you know, where we can assess or measure the potential of the customer, I mean, we would rather scale that variable also. Today, Prime is, you know, one way of identifying a set of customers who may be doing higher volume, needing better pricing, et cetera. At the same time, such pricing we don't give to any customer, you know, to make sure that we make properly, you know, on a low revenue-giving or low volume-giving customer. I mean, these things are the kind of ever-changing, and tomorrow we may think something else also if, I mean, the strategy works. Sure, sure. You talked about some changes in the Prime plan and in the prepaid plan to improve the activity levels of the customers. Do you expect any revenue impact of those changes? Or how should we think about from a revenue perspective of these changes that we are doing? Yeah. I mean, some impact I would expect to come from the existing set of customers opting for higher value Prime. At the same time, we have seen attraction, you know, from the newly acquired customers, and also in our reactivation activity, where we reach out to the older set of customers who have stopped for some reason. We are reaching out with a newer set of proposition. Net-net, I can say, there will be alpha. We are giving more than, you know, what revenue compression we see coming from the existing set of customers. Sure. Lastly, on the new plan. Yeah. You also give float income on the new plan. Where that float income is recognized in the P&L? Float income will come under the interest income, because what we can do for any kind of a client, money or float, we can only make fixed deposits and keep it with exchanges. That is the only ring-fence use which is allowed. That is where it gets clubbed under interest income. Okay. Sure, sure. That's it from my end. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. So on ESOP book, which is around INR 500 crore at the end of March 2021. Means if it has to run off completely, then within how many quarters it will run off? We're wondering when we do the modeling, should we assume that after FY 2023 it will become almost zero for us or how is it? Yeah. I mean, it all depends on the exit which customer gets. If they get a favorable exit, it may wind down, you know, very quickly. Many of the customers who are confident about their investments, I mean, they continue to pay interest and hold their position. That's the trend which we have also seen. I would say it should take about four to five quarters in all, you know, for this book to come down considerably. If I may come in, I couldn't hear the number. You cited a number. Did I get that? Yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, it's mentioned in the annual report. As on March 2021, it is INR 528 crores. I was quoting that figure. Okay. Yeah. That would have been one year old story. It is Yeah, yeah. Higher now. I just want to correct that. Yeah. I was referring to nine months old figure, which is INR 528 crores. Yeah. Right. Okay. sir, just wanted to understand that our yield in mutual fund have structurally improved by 10 basis points from 0.5, 0.65 to 0.67. Should we attribute largely to the higher contribution of equity or there is something else which is leading to the improvement in the yield? Largely that, Sanketh. Okay, perfect. In the Excel sheet, which you have disclosed first time in the quarter, just wondering, there is a number called other revenue, INR 49.2 crore. Just wondering, this is largely the float income what you have will be coming from coming from the accounts which you have opened outside ICICI Bank, which was probably very small number in the past, has now grown to INR 49 crore kind of a figure or it is made up of many more things in that sense? No. Let me clarify, Sanketh. The INR 49 crore, it is always, There's a number of interest income, if you remove the interest that we have earned from MTF and ESOP. See, MTF and ESOP is clearly a part of allied income, but we also earn interest on fixed deposits that we place with exchanges as margins. That is the most significant portion, maybe more than 95% of that element. Everything else would be under that. But yeah, it is that element which is there. Fixed income, we have a total of about INR 7,000 crores or INR 8,000 crores worth of FD. The interest that is getting earned over there is primarily the contributor of Got it. Just wondering, given we have now many accounts open outside ICICI Bank, if the activity is increasing, it means it should become a meaningful source of flow for us. Has it reached to that level or it will take a decent amount of time to reach there to make it an important margin in total revenue line? Yeah. It will, Sanketh, it is growing pretty well. We will, you know, subsequently also take a call to put that out as a separate line item, maybe let's say crossing INR 1,000 crore or whatever, but it is growing well and increasingly becoming more and more relevant. Okay. The float income, I mean, even the customers who are opting for NEO, so I mean the count is about 1.8 lakh, they also have to compulsorily come in a float model. Yeah. Irrespective of where do they hold their bank account, whether other bank or ICICI Bank account, if they want that proposition, then they will have to come, you know, for this deposit model. There also we have seen a significant attraction. Got it, sir. Got it. Finally, just on the other non-mutual fund and non-insurance related distribution income. We see significant traction in the loan book other than home loans. Home loans have actually moderated to 13%, but other loan books have grown very strongly, almost 162% year-on-year. Just wondering which are these products and which are the tiers and do you see this INR 178 crore of disbursements that you have done in third quarter are sustainable figures or not? Sanketh, two things. One is the kind of products. You ask three questions. What are the kind of products, what is the traction, I mean, what is the reason for the traction and whether it's a sustainable number or not. Specifically coming to products, we have a total of about 12 products. It includes apart from home loans, business loan, gold loan, SMEs, even credit card distribution. There are almost 12 products. What we have seen is a traction which is growing because this is a line which we have started focusing on over the last one and a half years. We are also looking at it from a overall process revamp point of view, trying to make the process more decongested, seamless for the customer. Some of those things are also helping, and we are going behind specific needs. You earlier had a scenario where you had to move physical files. A lead would come, a physical file would need to travel to the manufacturer, which could be bank, and a clarification will go. All this was quite physical. It has also become a bit digital. Phygital, if I may say. Closures are becoming slightly better. Lead management is becoming slightly better. Those are some of the structural things we are looking at. It is still WIP. We would not say that it's fully done. All these products specifically, we are running campaigns, we are trying to get leads, and that is resulting in increase. We believe actually this number could grow. More than being sustainable, I think this number actually could grow because we are trying on various levers on that. Again, I just want to clarify one more thing. You put out one number. What was that number? I thought I heard INR 170 crore or INR 200 crore or something to that effect. Yeah. In third quarter in the Excel sheet you have the Excel which you have disclosed, it is mentioned as INR 178 crore. No, no. That number is understated there. It is higher. Total number. Harvinder, please clarify what is the total disbursement. No. Vijay, I think Sanketh's question is to the non-home loan portfolio. Okay, non-home loan. Okay, fine. Non-home loan portfolio is INR 178 for the quarter and INR 410 crores the home loan portfolio. The total number is about INR 5.9 billion, INR 590 crores. Yeah, that's right. I couldn't hear what you were saying properly. Okay. Sir, just, Harvinder, this is INR 49.4 crore of other distribution income other than the mutual fund and the life insurance income is completely related to these loans only, right? Or. No, no. That is not correct, Sanketh. It has a long tail of products, and I'll give you the main product categories also. It has a whole range of fixed income products. We earn distribution fee from distribution of gold bonds, corporate bonds, fixed deposits, corporate deposits. That's one category. We'll call it fixed income as one category. The second category is the alternates or PMS distribution. That's the second category. You also earn fees on a plethora of products. You have you know NPS, you have general insurance, you have, I mean, a lot of products, including home loans. Which will fall into the third category. Three or four predominant categories are sitting in that INR 49 crore of overall. It's not only home loan. Home loan may, you can say that about if you have, like, INR 590 crore, roughly the yield would be in the range of about INR 0.80-INR 1.00, depending on the product mix. Oh, okay. Got it. Perfect. Yes. Yeah, got it. Just a final thing. Mm-hmm. It's a clarification. I think I am clear, but just confirming. In the institutional allied business. Yes. 21, INR 25.1 crore figure is part of IB income, right? It's already reported in INR 110 crores, what you have reported in IB income. No. This is a revenue share. IB income is anyway excluding the revenue share. It is IB income which is allocated only to investment banking. The part of that they share with institutional broking. This is a disclosure that was always sitting in others. We have tried to bring more and more granularity into reporting and therefore called out from others and put that this particular element belongs to institutional broking. This plus the IB would be the total fee that we have taken from the client. Again, let me repeat that. The investment banking revenue plus the revenue share that is there with investment broking, that is the total fee as a company level that we would have received. What is allocated to a business segment IB is different and what is allocated to institutional equity is the share. In the older disclosure, where this INR 25.1 crore was sitting then? Which revenue line item? It will be under fees. The first line item is the brokerage. The other line item is fees and commission. Sorry, fees, other distribution, other fees. Under that line item, you will have investment banking, you will have distribution fee. So on. That is where it will be sitting. Got it. Again just a clarity from hygiene point of view. You will incrementally maintain this Excel sheet, right? It will help us. That's right. The idea is that this Excel sheet provides complete clarity. It's for the benefit of people that will provide complete clarity on comparable line items. Okay, perfect then. Thank you. That's continuous disclosure, yes. Okay, okay. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much, Sanket. Thank you. Okay. Next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Just wanted to check on the ESOP financing thing that you mentioned that there'll be a cap of INR 2 million per client. What is the exact date from which this is getting implemented? Is it already implemented or is there a future date? First is that. Second, on the ARPU, you mentioned that, you know, your ARPUs are in the range of 8,000-10,000. Specifically, can you help us understand for the new customers who were onboarded last year, what has been the growth in their ARPU? What has been their, or what has been the trend with their ARPUs? One clarification I wanted in this. In the beginning, you mentioned that there is a new directive which requires brokers to keep 50% of their margin money in cash. What is your percentage on this and how much you make? Can you repeat that bit as well? Yeah. Let me go one and three, and then, Harvinder, you can talk about the first. The ESOP has already been implemented in December. We started moving to that model. The third one is, in terms of, the cash that we don't keep 100% of our requirements in form of cash. You know, the other option is to keep it in form of share. Yeah. We keep it in form of cash always. It doesn't really impact us because now people who never would keep it in form of cash and keep it in form of shares will have to minimum keep 50% in form of cash. I hope that clarifies. With respect to the ARPUs required last year, Harvinder, you can comment. Sure. Thanks. Vis-à-vis last year, we have not put out the cohort-wise ARPU, if that is what your question is, Shreya. I can give you a general direction. What we have seen, and we have kind of articulated earlier also, that the newer customers which are joining the cohort are much younger and their ARPUs are expected to be slightly lower as compared to what we have traditionally seen. As a result of that, the overall portfolio ARPU has seen a bit of a decline as compared to last year. However, what we are looking at is that at a overall cohort level, if you take retail distribution plus equity, I mean, all the products put together are currently it's at that level. As the mix of these customers increase, it is possible that could see a downward trend. Okay. The much younger customer base which is joining is more of a trend of this year, right? The previous year trend was not as downward. I would say about 1.5 years. September of last year is where we started getting some traction. October, November, and so on, so forth. From there is where we have started getting some traction. Got it. Okay, thank you. Yeah, but just to clarify, the traditional sources have also increased. It is not like, you know, that other traditional sources is forgotten. Yes. What we were acquiring for 20 years has also started growing at a faster pace. Yes. This cohort is an add-on cohort which never existed for us in the past. Yeah. It is not one replacing the other, one augmenting the other and the original one piece itself is also, Getting, you know, gaining traction. It is growing at a faster clip. At 25-30 thousand is now at 35-40 thousand per month. Okay. Which is a traditional cohort. Got it. Sure. Thank you, Radhakrishnan. Thank you. Next question is in the line of Kashyap Javeri from Emkay Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Yeah. I have one question. When you give that NSE active client number, do we remove also clients who haven't traded, you know, let's say in terms of activity, for the same period as we, you know, add the clients in terms of active clients? Yeah, yeah. It's a rolling 12-month number which is not published by us. Actually, that's published by NSE. Okay. They pick it up. This is in NSE data. They publish every month. For example, if any customer traded in the month of, let's say, we are in January, so January of 2021 as the last trade, and we are, let's say, entering the month of February where he did nothing from January 2021 till fifth month of February 2022, it will fall off. Till January it will be included as an active customer, but in February it will fall off from the list of active customers. Right. You know, any of the brokerage income, you know, because of just classification in terms of revenue, you know, would have been part of, let's say, income, which is classified as Prime or income which is classified as MTF? No. That will not be brokerage income. If client list has gone up by, let's say, you know, 20% or let's say versus about 2.27-2.75, ideally there should have been some change in the brokerage income. It can't be. I mean, retail brokerage income can't be just flat. Hello? Yeah. Sorry. If I have understood your question, your question is, are you comparing YOY versus Q3? I mean, either way, I'm saying if you compare Y and Y, I mean pure retail brokerage revenue, if I were to exclude Prime and, you know, ESOP and MTF book, still wouldn't have grown in line with the active client additions. Yeah. That is correct. That is correct because there are Some bit of pricing and migration to Prime or NEO would have happened. Even beyond Q1, you know, the client addition is very aggressive in that sense. Yeah. There are three factors, primarily, which will contribute to this trend. One is exactly the way you said that, there will be incrementally, movement towards Prime, Neo, prepaid, any of our plans which offer better yields. Therefore, the ARPUs could have or brokerage, absolute brokerage could have an impact of that. Number two, on any kind of YOY basis, the contribution of the clients which are new to us as a proportion of overall clients, that's heavily skewed towards new clients. See, supposing you have 100 clients and earlier you were acquiring, let's say 10 clients incrementally. The mix was more skewed towards the existing clients. Now, what has started happening is because of the growth in digital, a lot of clients are still in their 0- 12-month vintage bucket, which will definitely not have the same ARPU or same revenue-generating opportunity. That's the second reason. Third reason, which we probably discussed earlier, is that we should look at allied income. The reason is not only because it's a different source. The reason is that our strategy has been to broad base, and as a result of that we have kind of brought down our yields and some of these things have gone up, other charges. It's a fee structure which is changing. Therefore, a more appropriate comparison will be after taking allied also. But even if you do not take that for brokerage, these are the factors which influence that. Some of this, you know, pricing or yield which we would be losing probably in terms of retail brokerage revenue. If I understood correctly, a bit of that is compensated because of the allied charges that we earn from the same client. That's right. A lot of it. I'll give you an example. In NEO, for example, you have a flat brokerage of INR 20 per order, but you have 4, 5 different type of charges. You have interest income on shares as margin. You have charges for transferring money and so on, so forth. Therefore, it is an I mean, it's a modular pricing, so to say. Right. Which is why, you know, Mr. Chandok, he keeps referring to total- That's right. You know, to look at it in that fashion. Correct. Because now activity-based pricing and not only brokerage. Okay. Sure. Yeah. That is the only question I had. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take our last question, which is from the line of Sahej Mittal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening, everyone. Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Most of my questions have been answered. Just two questions from my side. You know, given that the activation rates for have been really much good for the quarter. I mean, what is the average wallet size of the digital customers which you are acquiring? Or what is the average trading size? The reason why I'm asking is that, you know, if the wallet size is initially small, say INR 15,000, INR 20,000 or INR 50,000, and if market go through a sharp correction, then are these customers, you know, loading their guns again and investing, coming again to the market? Or if it's a very big bad bet initially, then, you know, do they turn dormant? What are the trends you all seeing? That was first and the second one was data-driven question around what was the marketing spends for, let's say in Q3 and maybe also for Q4. Yeah. Let me come in and, Harvinder, you can talk. You articulated some very interesting points around, you know, what this new cohort is going to be. For us it's now roughly about eight years of experience in this particular space. What we are seeing also, we are in a way, seeing an evolving sort of a behavior from this cohort. Therefore, we have not sort of started putting out details, you know, beyond what we have already said. We started saying