Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings conference call of ICICI Securities Limited for the quarter ended June 30, 2022. We have with us today on the call Mr. Vijay Chandok, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Ajay Saraf, Executive Director, Mr. Harvinder Jaspal, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Vishal Gulecha, Head Retail Equities, Mr. Kedar Deshpande, Head Retail Distribution, Product and Services Group, Mr. Anupam Guha, Head Private Wealth Management, Mr. Subhash Kelkar, Chief Technology and Digital Officer, Mr. Ketan Karkhanis, Head Digital Client Acquisition and Co-Head New Solutions Group, Mr. Prasannan Kesavan, Head Operations, and Mr. Nilotpal Gupta, Head Data Science Unit. For the duration of this presentation, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. I will be standing by for the Q&A session. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. The business presentation can be found on the company's corporate website, icicisecurities.com, under Investor Relations. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Chandok, MD and CEO, ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. A very good evening to all of you, and welcome to ICICI Securities quarter one earnings call for fiscal 2023. I'm sure that by now you would have all perused through our investor presentation, which has been uploaded, as was pointed out on our website. I shall start this discussion with highlighting some of the industry performance for the quarter which has just ended, and then take you through some of the key areas that we have been focusing on during this quarter. The first thing that we have seen was apparent in this quarter was there was a clear moderation in the industry. In a way, when we look at this moderating trend, it started off sometime in the month of October last year, so quarter 3 FY 2022 is when it started. It continued in quarter 4 FY 2022, and it quite sharply intensified in quarter 1 FY 2023. This is visible from trends on multiple parameters, and I'll just take you through the parameters where this moderation is clearly visible. First, in the growth of new Demat accounts that are getting opened. When you look at this indicator, you will find that this has been losing momentum, and on a sequential basis, the new Demat accounts actually declined by 25%. The second parameter is the NSE active clients for the industry. This grew by about 5.5% sequentially, and this growth rate is the slowest that we've seen since, you know, December 2019. Currently, this number has now stacked up by the end of this, for this quarter to about 20 lakh NSE active. What is interesting is that this momentum is showing a declining trend on a monthly basis, with industry adding only 5 lakh customers on NSE active in May, which came down further to little less than 3 lakh customers in the month of June. The third parameter I want to talk about is the cash volumes. Cash volumes for quarter one further reduced, with retail equity ADTOs declining by 15% sequentially. Within this quarter, if you look at the June retail cash ADTOs, it actually declined 22% vis-à-vis May and 35% vis-à-vis March, clearly indicating that there's a weakening trend as we enter into quarter two. Coming to F&O trading activity. Here, I would say that F&O trading activity fared better relative to the cash segment with growing retail derivative ADTOs. However, what is noteworthy is that the pace of growth has moderated. It actually moderated in the last quarter compared to quarter 3 to 25% and further moderated sequentially in the current quarter to 11% compared to quarter four of last year. Coming to the overall ECM activity, which is there in the industry, again, this showed degrowth sequentially. It showed growth sequentially, and this was largely because of the LIC IPO. If you look at the residual primary market activity, it was actually quite weak. Coming to mutual funds, the gross flows in equity mutual funds declined by 15% and 16% on equity and debt, respectively. Flows into SIP, however, continued to show an increasing trend, and it increased by about 3% sequentially. However, what was noteworthy is that the SIP count addition declined sequentially by more than 20%. In such a context of a very clearly moderating industry, our revenue has actually grown on a YOY basis by about 6.3% and came in at about INR 794.8 crores. This is on the back of our efforts to diversify and texturize revenue and was led principally by growth of non-broking equity revenue and also the distribution income. However, when you look at it on a sequential basis, you will find that it has declined by 11%, and this is clearly attributable to the moderation in the industry that I just mentioned. When we talk of profits after tax, profit after tax actually declined 12% on a YoY basis and 20% sequentially, and came in at about INR 273.6 crores. If I were to explain the decline on YoY basis, it is on account of lower revenue in the institutional businesses. All other businesses are actually grown on a YoY basis. Higher cost base was the second reason why this is actually declined. Higher cost base was on account of the increasing spends that we have been doing in identified focus areas comprising talent and capabilities, primarily in technology, analytics and marketing. When you look at on a sequential basis, the decline can be attributed to weakness across both primary and secondary market activities, and also to an extent on account of seasonality in some parts of the distribution business. Under the circumstances of a difficult quarter, I would say and reemphasize that we are completely committed to our medium-term strategy that I've shared with you in the past. However, our immediate focus as a company has remained in four important areas. The first one is improving market share across various areas of business. Second is in diversifying our revenue mix. Third is judicious cost containment without compromising on growth opportunities. Lastly, building a pipeline of business and products to be future-ready. Now, coming to market share, I'll draw your attention on some of the important elements. We've been making investments in the derivatives segments, and we started seeing some early encouraging signs. If you look at our retail derivative market share, it improved from about 3.3% to 3.5% on a sequential basis. However, when you look at it on a monthly basis, June market share came in at about 3.6%. As we've entered into the new quarter, we continue to see increase in number of customers orders and even market share. Looking at MTF, we've maintained our leadership position with the market share, which marginally increased. It went to about 22.4%. We recently launched commodities, and commodities has been shaping up well, and we continue to gain market share there. It came in at about 4.4% in the current quarter, sequentially from 4.1% in the last quarter. With respect to NSE Active, our market share remained stable at about 8.4%. With respect to Demat account sourced, our market share increased from 5.5% YOY basis to 6.5% YOY basis. Mutual fund AUM actually increased by 10 basis points from 1.6% to 1.7%. While on the above parameters we gained market share, our retail equity market share, I would say, remained broadly range bound and stood at about 9.7%. We continue to introduce new tools, new plans, new propositions to strengthen our offerings across all businesses, and our market share focus in difficult markets is going to be a very important deliverable from our side, and we'll remain committed to that. Second, coming to our focus area in current difficult situations is diversification of revenues. Now talking about diversification of revenues, if you look at our non-broking retail equity revenue, it grew by 87% YOY and sequentially by 9%. This is largely driven by the growth in the MTF book and the average MTF book on a YOY basis increased by about 97%. Distribution income grew by 28% on a YOY basis, driven by a strong performance from mutual funds, insurance and all the remaining other products. ICICI Prudential Mutual Fund AUM, excluding direct, actually was up by 11% YOY. Equity AUM was up by about 20%. Revenue from mutual fund insurance and other products grew by 21%, 61% and 34% on a YOY basis. The total distribution income on a sequential basis declined by 10%, but this is primarily on account of seasonality associated with the insurance business. Our own PMS g-book grew by 10% on a QoQ basis and crossed about INR 800 crore currently. As a consequence of the above, when you look at it on a YOY basis, the contribution of broking revenue to the overall revenue came down from 53% last year same time to 38% currently. Contribution of allied revenues within equity increased from about 25% last year same time to about 45%. Contribution of distribution income actually increased from 16% last year same time to about 19%. Clearly diversification as a theme has been playing out, and within equity, texturization of revenues as a theme has been playing out. Now with regards to cost containment, I think the noteworthy point for us to share is that the cost which has been increasing in absolute rupee terms 7 quarters in a row actually declined on a sequential basis by 2%. This is because we reduced discretionary costs in the context of weak market conditions. While the decline itself is marginal, I think it's important to note that it's a clear commitment and direction that we have taken of containing what we call discretionary costs and focusing only on growth-oriented cost elements. We'll continue to look at costs in a similar manner as we enter the remaining part of this fiscal year. Talking about the last aspect, which is what are the products that we are launching to be future-ready. I would say that with a view to put an enhanced focus on the trading segment, we rolled out a slew of products. These are what we branded as smart order platforms, Easy Options, Trading View which provide a much superior experience. We also have a pipeline of products like Flash Trade, single screen trading trading platform for high volume trader, which we've called Meta Cockpit. All these are getting launched during the course of this quarter. We launched a product which we branded LIFEY as a digital assistant. This is to facilitate investors to select investment options for meeting their life goals. We consciously upgraded and continuously upgraded our Markets and Money app to launch several of the tools and products that I described above, and also insurance and loan products, and also focused on improving loan customer journeys. In that context, I'm actually quite pleased to report to you that our markets app today is rated better than most of the competitive apps that you find in both Play Store as well as App Store. This I'm comparing including with the new-age players, clearly endorsing some of the efforts that we've been taking in improving our digital offerings to our customers. We also launched iLearn, which is a new age learning platform. It is replete with short videos, podcasts, and we've also introduced an investor community platform, which is showing an initial traction, which is pretty encouraging, and it is also helping us increase engagement. Recently we received approval from our investment committee of the board to take over the business of a company called Multipie. It's a networking platform for investors. This is of course subject to legal due diligence being satisfactory. Once this is done, we believe along with the brand, the business and the people should further assist in modernizing our efforts to educate and engage and create a network of investors on our platform. We also recently entered into an exclusive partnership with HSBC Bank, which is for them, first of its kind globally, to offer a three-in-one broking account, just like we do with our ICICI Bank partners, to their partners in India. This will clearly provide us access to provide equity products to their HNI customer base. On the issuers and in advisory services business, markets were weak, so we used this time to build a strong pipeline. Today, we have a pipeline of about INR 82,500 crores across 42 deals. there are many more deals that we are engaged in, and we feel quite optimistic that as soon as market sentiment improves, many of these deals will get executed, and we are keeping them several of them in a ready-to-launch state. as we move forward, I think it would be fair to say that the near-term outlook remains uncertain. However, despite these short-term headwinds, we continue to believe strongly in the medium- to long-term story of the segments of industry that we operate in. we'll continue to look at all these opportunities with an agile mindset and remain committed to expand our presence and market share across the products that we offer, of course, in the segments of savings, investments and wealth, loans and insurance to the various customer segments that we offer. That is all I thought I will share with you. I'll end my commentary and throw it open for whatever questions you may have. Thank you very much for a patient hearing. Thank you very much. We'll now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. 2, 3. The first question is from the line of Digant Haria from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead. Hello. My first question is that if we look at the cash ADTO in the last 12 months, they have fallen by roughly 30% or 40%. But derivatives ADTO even on a QoQ basis haven't fallen much. You know, maybe someone like me would read that F&O trading is probably the future. You know, however much we may like it or not, F&O trading is occupying the center stage of the entire equity market. In that context, my first question is on the F&O, that 6 months back, Vijay, you said that in F&O trading, we need three things. We first need the pricing right. Second is we need the tools and the ecosystem of, you know, to help the traders. Third is actually getting the customers and, you know, making them stay engaged. Where exactly are we on this journey? Because we see the market share gains, but if you can give some more color, you know, in terms of where exactly in this stage are we? Thanks, Digant. A pleasure to talk to you after a long time. You're very right. I think you cited some numbers. 35% broadly was the decrease in the cash ADTO and if you look at derivatives, while on a YoY basis, the growth was some more than 2.2 times on a YoY basis. I think what is to be noted is that sequentially, while it is growing, it is growing at a slower pace. Yes, all the numbers that you mentioned, I completely resonate with what you're saying. Just one point I would comment on this is that as a company, as a firm, our approach is always diversification, not be dependent on just one you know singular revenue or market opportunity. Right now it is growing. Is it an important opportunity? Definitely important opportunity. Are we committed to increasing our presence there? 100%. How are we going to do this? As you correctly pointed out, three things. Actually, just to refresh, I had pointed out four things. I had mentioned pricing, I had mentioned reliable platform, then I'd mentioned about tools, and I'd mentioned about what you said, which is the basic. Ecosystem. ecosystem of APIs and, you know, other research stuff that you can add to this. Absolutely. Pricing, I would say we have done with. Stability of our platform, I think is very much something that we've established. I made a comment in my speech. I think the proof of the pudding is just go to the App Store, just go to the Play Store, take our rating. We've got more than 11,000 ratings, which, you know, customers have given us on the Play Store. Compare it with any other New Age app, and you'll find that we are right up there. I think we've kind of sort of made big progress there, and it's a big movement that we've made there. I would say platform has clearly actually been created. Number of tools are launched, number of tools are coming. Even as we speak, you know, I'm sitting with a test version, which we are going to launch maybe tomorrow or maybe at first on Monday, which will throw more tools into the market. These tools are being really loved by our customers as reflected in what their comments come in the social media and, you know, direct mails that come to us. That is what has helped us gain market share. Market share on a month-on-month has increased by 20 basis points sequentially. As we entered into July, I mean, it's too early days. I mean, I would still wait for some more stability to give any sort of comment there, but I think the trends are encouraging. We'll launch more of these tools. We've got a bunch of about seven or eight such tools that we are launching. So they are all coming, and then it's a question of increasing popularity. Completely resonate with you that derivative important. We are going to invest in that, and we want to increase our penetration presence and make that as an important line item of revenue. That is not going to be our only line item of revenue. We are also going to be focusing on other areas, clearly. Right. Absolutely, sir. My question was just because, you know, this is the only area where probably, you know, we. I think. are not the strongest. All other areas, you know, there's very little to ask because we have done a good job anyways, you know? Completely agree, sir. We will deliver in this area. We have to deliver, and we are committed to that. Perfect, sir. Sir, specifically on the wealth part, you know, the whole distribution part, not just wealth, but the whole distribution part, do you see any pricing pressure coming in the market or, you know, across products like, you know, MF and insurance and, you know, wealth management? Is there no pressure on pricing? Digant, this is a competitive industry. I think clearly one cannot run away and wish away from the fact that there is a lot of competition. Entry barriers are relatively low. Pricing pressure is always knocking on our doors, whichever product that we offer. The name of, you know, competition requires us to clearly be innovative, be more sort of relevant, and keep being reasonably priced. We've always looked at pricing with an agile mindset. We managed to hold our positions and increase market share. You mentioned distribution products. I think under-penetration is so massive in the distribution products that there is space to grow despite competition. Pricing pressure, yes, will remain. Our approach to pricing pressure is through trying to innovate, add value and, you know, try and maintain pricing. A classic example I can give you, just to make my point, is on the mutual fund side. I think mutual fund there is enough and more competition from direct plans. However, you've seen that despite that, we managed to inch up on market share. If you look at our SIP market share, it has grown, actually it is now in the vicinity of about 1 million SIPs getting triggered on a monthly basis. This used to be 650,000 about six quarters back. That's growing. We've been gaining market share there. If I recollect, it's about 3.4% market share. It used to be much lower than that five, six quarters back. We'll continue to invest. The LIFEY product I just alluded to is another such product which will help us, you know, do goal planning, you know, marriage planning for buying a car, planning a holiday, and so on and so forth, and therefore, what investments I should take. They are pretty cool tools that, you know, will connect well with both, affluent, younger, mass affluent segment as well as the newcomers. Idea is to grow the SIP franchise, add value, and be reasonably priced. Competition sir. Right. Thanks so much for the detailed answer. Just lastly, you know, just a suggestion that, you know, since you alluded that in these difficult markets or, you know, in markets which are not very buoyant, market share will be a very big focus for us. You know, we used to share a slide at the end of the presentation where, you know, we can get the market ADTOs and the, you know, our mutual fund AUMs and all of that. That just made our lives easier to track that market share. If we can just reinstate that slide, that would be great. That's just a suggestion from my side. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, Digant. Harvinder here. Just a quick clarification. We have over the last 2, 3 quarters started giving a much more detailed breakup in a separate file called disclosures, an Excel file, which has all the market shares, ADTOs on various parameters, detailed revenue breakups. It's already there, sir. Just, dig it up from there. If you need any help, we can always clarify. I'll send you. It's already there. Perfect. Thank you so much, Harvinder. Thanks, Vijay, for very detailed answers as always. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Elara Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening. Thanks for taking my question. First, Madhukar, sorry to interrupt you. Your voice is breaking. May I request you to come in a better reception area, please? Hello, can you hear me now? Hello. Sir, sorry, your voice is still breaking. Hello? Hello? Yes, sir. Please go ahead. Okay. Hi. Just, you know, on the retail equity and allied revenues, I see other fees and charges. That has grown quite well to INR 32 crore in this quarter. You know, maybe you can explain that. The second thing, other distribution is holding up quite well. I wanted to understand what are the drivers to other distribution and what will, you know, what sort of will move that line item. Finally, within retail brokerage, how much is from the cash side and what percentage is F&O, if you can sort of give that out. Lastly, you know, what is the adoption of Neo been? Yeah, that those would be my four questions. Thanks. Hi. Madhukar. The first question, others within the allied revenue that has grown from about INR 17 crores to INR 32 crores. That's primarily on account of increase in lot of these transaction-based charges that we have introduced. It's a entire portfolio of you know charges under Neo, Prime, et cetera, small charges. That quantum, the overall cohort is starting to grow. That is the primary mover and shaker. You have seen that the interest income is at about INR 150 crores. Prime fee is at about, so went up from INR 26 crores to INR 30 crores. This other fees and charges, this is the prime mover and This also includes the Neo charge, right? Yes. Other charges are completely Neo-oriented. Neo, it will be Neo first time fee, it will be the payment gateway charge, Demat charge, exchange transaction charge, call and trade charge. All those type of charges are On transfer. Yeah, payment transfer charges. That cohort has started to grow. That is question number one. Broadly from the non-ICICI Bank base customer. Would that be right to say? Largely that could be true, but it could be a mix. For example, within Prime also there'll be some Demat charges. But yes, Neo customers could have ICICI Bank and non-ICICI Bank customers both. Neo is a trader's proposition. Many of our existing customers also opted for Neo, so it could be a mix. It will not be correct to classify it only one way. I will answer the fourth question also linked to this. Neo adoption is now roughly touching about 50 odd% in terms of the overall trade. The overall subscription is about 2.5 per lakh. So this is the Neo contribution. You also asked about distribution revenue, it is holding up. What are the drivers for that? On a sequential basis. The other distribution. Yeah. Other distribution is a whole long range of products. For example, our wealth products, fixed income products, loan products. Some of these products are holding sequentially. The decline that we saw was primarily on insurance and mutual fund, which you must have noted. These other products, especially these categories, we have seen holding up behavior. Which categories exactly? Sorry. What I mentioned, the fixed income distribution, loan distribution, wealth products, AIF, PMS, sequentially, these are the ones which are holding. Understood. Madhukar, there was one more question which I missed. I think you mentioned something about equity and F&O. Yeah, the split in broking revenue between cash and F&O. If you can, I remember earlier it would be a rough sense was sort of, you know, about 65% would be cash. Broadly, it will be around that range. I mean, and it keeps varying, in and around that range, Madhukar. Okay. Okay. Right. I'll come back in with you. Thanks, Amit. Sure. Thank you very much. A request to all the participants, please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permit, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good evening, everyone. Firstly, you know, while continuing on the F&O question which we had from the first participant, while there is so much attraction, and the regulator seems to be talking about, you know, restricting the activity of retail in terms of F&O, and we are hearing that a lot of data has been sought from brokers by exchanges as well as the regulators. How do you think that this is panning out, and what could be the measures according to you that could be brought to restrict trading activity of F&O by retail participants, if any? The second question is on the Prime customers, where we haven't seen any addition in this quarter. What is the reason there, and how do you see this traction going ahead? That would be my two questions. Prime customers means? Okay. Yeah, you're very right. You know, Prayesh, when you said that regulator has been asking a lot of questions, in fact, all of us in the industry, including I'm sure your company as well, would have been probably called in, for these kind of conversations. I think when you get behind the scenes of what exactly the regulator is looking at, I think they are concerned about, A, the growing volumes. It's pretty high. B, the fact that a lot of, younger, less experienced people who have come into the markets are, participating in, F&O market. Obviously from a sustainability and stability of the market viewpoint, they do not want anyone to actually get an adverse experience of making these investments. Their intent is clearly to protect the retail investor and also to ensure that, you know, there is stability in the market. I think they are clearly coming from a risk on lens, so to speak. The type of data that they have been asking and the kind of conversations they've been asking is reflecting information to satisfy themselves that indeed, you know, there are enough controls, enough risks, enough sort of transparency that is being shared with the customer so that he clearly understands what he's getting into, and he has a sense of what he's either making or not making in the market. That is where they are coming from. Vishal has been having, you know, direct discussions. Maybe he can add a little bit of color and also talk a little bit about the Prime, and you know, what is the outlook there. Yeah. I think the regulator is definitely interested in seeing a very robust derivatives market, but at the same time they want to take all precaution to prevent any kind of undesired experience to these retail customers. I think we are completely aligned with that thought. Two counts, I mean, one is the kind of tools which we are bringing. It declutters the entire derivatives space. Doesn't let customer, you know, go too far from the reality and keep customer within, you know, those, the practical aspects of derivatives. Like, you will see one of the products which we have launched recently is the option, which clearly tells, these, option traders that don't go too far and trade in something where you can lose money. I mean, these kind of initiatives we will keep taking. Secondly, how do we help our customers in terms of research recommendations? I think we are increasing our intensity there as well, so as to give a very, very guided, you know, tool to customer in derivatives. Also in terms of due diligence, et cetera, when customer comes to trade, I think you know that those steps will be welcomed by the investor community and we as well, and we will abide by whatever new framework et cetera. I would put one comment that, you know, wherever we have seen any kind of regulatory sort of, interventions, it kind of probably has short-term, impact, which may be, you know, sort of, reducing volumes, and activity. I think in a period of time, the market sort of absorbs it and moves on and comes out and emerges more stable. I think, for example, I can say that in this round of market correction, which has been quite, I would say, visibly there, we've not seen too much of leverage in the market. I think that's why while I see pain in the market, I don't see panic in the market. I think good from a regulatory stability point of view. I think short point is that things should be eventually okay, even if there are some actions. In any case, our dependence on one product has never been part of our strategy. We are broad-basing. We are not overtly dependent on one product. We'll continue to keep that lens as we move forward. Coming to Prime. Yeah. Prime in Q1, I would say that, you know, the performance or the subscription was slightly muted in comparison to Q4, but that is more to do with the market conditions and, you know, the inflow of a new set of customers. That also is not too out of the place. I think we will be down by only about 12% in terms of overall Prime numbers in comparison to Q4. When we look at any other quarter before that, I think the Q1 will still be far better than what we have done previously. Yeah. It is more, I mean, short point is it's more, you know, market reflective. Our actually new account-made Demat market share has gone up by about 100 basis points in the quarter. Thanks for that. Just a further clarity on this F&O thing. So when we source the information from the customer while allowing him to trade in F&O, what kind or what major checks and balances do we keep by, you know, allowing the customer to, you know, trade in F&O? Yeah. I mean, there is a format which regulator has also defined that customer before entering into a derivative segment should fulfill what kind of condition. Be it, you know, the financial documents which customer should give to activate derivative segment or a Demat statement or a bank account should be six months old, et cetera. I think we do, you know, comply with all those and before enabling any derivatives customer, all these steps are completely ensured. That is, you know, the guideline defined by investor and we are complete. Yeah. The product construct is also very, very contained. I mean, that responsibility is with us that we create products, you know, which kind of gel well with this kind of people. Promoting, you know, products like stop-loss products, where the downside is contained. As I said, promoting products like easy options where, you know, not promoting too much out of the money options kind of thing, where the loss has been higher historically also. I mean, those are the steps which we are taking on continuous basis as well when customer comes in for the first time. Thanks. That's helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next question is on the line from Nilesh from Quantum Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I mean, I just want to understand the last few quarters there's been a burst of new client additions. I'm assuming there has been a substantial marketing spend to acquire those clients. I don't know if there is a life cycle costing number. When do these clients become sort of net positive for you? I'm assuming there is an EBITDA drag because of large marketing spends that have been undertaken. But at some point they will. These clients which are dragging margins start becoming or start adding to profitability. Is there some sense you can throw on that? Yeah. Hi, Harvinder here. We measure internally and keep tracking something which we call it as a payback period. The amount of time that we take to recoup by way of revenues, whatever spends we do directly to acquire a customer. At a firm level, we have a payback period of slightly more than a year, so about 13 months or so. Give or take a few months, one or two months plus or minus month-on-month, there could be variations. More specifically within the digital clients that we are acquiring where there's a lot of scale and it's a more recent channel. There the payback currently is slightly higher. It's about 24 months, 2 years vis-a-vis company level average of 1 year. What we have seen is that we started this digital acquisition journey about 2 years back. First 5, 7, 10 cohorts are already deep in the money in terms of starting to already make profit. Every subsequent month we keep seeing some of the cohorts turning into the green zone. At a portfolio level, this is what the current track is. Okay. I just understand. I'll just add one point. You know, we've been very, very careful about not overextending ourselves on spend. In fact, I think at an overall level the numbers don't really move the overall what should I say? Overall, not cost, but the PP, BP number by too much. Just I think in the last call you suggested, I mean, there would be substantial spends on the technology side. I think the number was around INR 60 crore or something. Is that primarily on the balance sheet or you'll be expensing it through the P&L? How will the expense be? Yeah. First of all, let me clarify the numbers. We have had a CapEx spend of about INR 70-odd crores in FY 2022, and we had given a guidance and an OpEx spend of about INR 80 crores. That's the total outlay in FY 2022 already. We had said that our sense is that we are almost more than 2x is the kind of growth. Currently we expect a more moderated spend on technology. Just getting it deferred between maybe instead of 4 quarters, maybe 6-7 quarters. That's the stand that we are taking. It will be a similar mix of CapEx and OpEx. Part on balance sheet and part on OpEx. Just the point to be taken away is that, you know, the kind of aggressive guidance we had spoken last time, we have started looking at it in a more judicious way, focus more on the high impact here and now growth oriented spends and, you know, what is good to have. We'll defer it for a later time. Just on the balance sheet, I know the margin funding business. I mean, this already, your debt to equity is about 3 times. I know it's backed by liquid assets, but how comfortable are you and how much can you push that number? Regulatorily, we can go up to 6 times leverage ratio. That's what's kind of in trend in the semi-regulatory framework on margin trade finance product. Just to understand the construct of the product, it's a secured lending because what happens is that the underlying security for which you're doing margin trade financing, that is in your pledge. That has been our experience also over a long period of time. We definitely like this particular product, and it's a part of our both diversification strategy as well as client acquisition strategy. We have enough headroom, both from a financial perspective in terms of our ability to leverage and from a regulatory perspective. Is there an internal limit beyond which you'll not go? I mean, is or you're okay with going up to six times then? The regulatory limit sets the bar. Today, for whatever lending we do or assets we create, we need to take shareholder approval. Our current shareholder approval is of INR 11,000 crore. That is the current approval. We are at about INR 8,000 crore. Given the future direction, a medium-term direction, we'll shortly be taking an approval of enhancing that from INR 11,000 crore to about INR 15,000 crore to keep enough headroom over a medium term. Also, if I may add that apart from the basic design of the product, by basic design, I mean substantially higher margins as specified for this particular product versus any other bank product. Overlay that with our own risk framework, which basically says that there's a set criteria for choosing the securities which will be offered under MTF. It's completely automated. It's real time. Those are some of the parameters on which we have built this business. In that sense, I mean, we would be happy to kind of scale this up. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aejas Lakhani from Unifi Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, team. Thanks for the opportunity. Some of my questions have been answered, but the ones that are pending are, one is, team, could you speak about the MTF and ESOP book a bit? Because, sir and Mr. Chandok, if you look at the existing MTF book, that's tapered down to INR 5,200. So how should one look at that for the next quarter? Yeah. Thanks, Aejas. MTF and ESOP to our mind is something that is an area of focus, but we will not be moving ahead without it fitting into our risk framework. Now, there is a risk framework with what we do, what type of customers we do with, and there is a team which is very carefully administering this on the ground. In this quarter, as you correctly pointed out, sequentially, you know, there is a marginal decline. It is reflective of the fact that there is a weak market and inherently MTF is a product which is more suitable when, you know, the outlook of market is constructive and positive. In such a context, what are we doing? We found that the penetration number of customers that we've offered this product vis-à-vis the number of customers we have, the penetration was a minuscule percentage. Obviously it meant that there is a huge untapped opportunity sitting within our own portfolio rather than deepening within just the same customer doing more. That's the approach we have taken. This quarter, last quarter, while the numbers might have declined, the number of customers have actually increased. Which means that the gunpowder available for scale-up as markets improve can be quite scale up at a short notice. That's the approach we are taking. As far as we are actually going to be playing this by risk framework and by market opportunity combination. We don't want to, you know, do growth for the sake of it. Idea is granular. Broad base your risk. Spread your risk across larger set of customers. Then when the market times are right, then give him the, you know, wings to grow. That said, on the ESOP side, as we had mentioned in some of the earlier meetings as well, that we are following the RBI guidelines not more than INR 20 lakh. However, this product inherently is something that customers want larger amounts. We have recently tied up with Cholamandalam Finance and under that arrangement, we source the customer and manage the relationship. Chola provides the credit which is required beyond the, you know, the amount that if it exceeds INR 20 lakh, so that we retain relationship. There is obviously an earning that we get because we are the finder for that particular deal. There is some protection of revenue that we are able to manage on that. We will continue to use this channel to scale up. Right now it is working on a physical format. We are digitizing Chola into our platform so that, you know, this whole thing can become digitally delivered to him. That is what is going on. On MTF, it's fair to say market share is not just holding up. In fact, I think slightly it has inched up. We were last year same time around 22%. It's gone to about 22.4%. Idea is to maintain market leadership, broad-based risk framework under which we operate with the right customers. Broad-base it so that when the times are right, you can scale up fast. Got it. That's very helpful. Sir, the ESOP book rundown that we were expecting. Is it fair, from what I'm listening to you that the rundown could be much slower than our anticipated, and some of it could get compensated through the Chola piece. Is that fair? See, rundown has been slower, but I think you should attribute this to a weak market. You know, people who had taken ESOP position don't want to because these are all very, very strong companies. They don't want to just make an exit for the sake of it. They believe that there is more inherent value when markets they believe markets are right now in a transient state, they will improve. When that happens, they will sell. Decline is slower than what probably you had anticipated. Having said that, definitely both MTF growth by broad-basing, and also I would say, Chola's presence into our business should to some extent tame the negative impact. Got it, sir. Yeah. Got it, sir. Yeah. Got it, sir. Yeah. Got it, sir. Thanks for that. Harvinder, one question to you. See, you mentioned about those other fees and charges, which were those transaction-based charges. Is it my understanding fairly right that as the derivative fees increases because everything is Neo-linked, that this number also will be reflective of the same? It will be a combination of derivatives, yes, but a combination of derivatives and equity and trading number of orders. See, because it's quite diversified. If you look at the nature of these charges, something is based on number of times the amount gets transferred. Something is based on how many calls you decide to make. Something is dependent on how many system square offs happen. It's quite diversified. Yes, broadly the level of activities as it grows. If traders business, which includes intraday trade, intraday equity, and activity on equity and Neo increases, I think it'll all stack up here. Got it. Sir- It's not singularly attributable to Neo. Got it. Got it, sir. Sir, finally, is there any weaning off of competitive pressures from, you know, the PE funded sort of brokers? I think market has slowed down. I mean, one of the places where we did see competitive activity very heavy was on marketing spends on acquisition. One can sense that has faded out in the last couple of months. That's one place which one can probably get a hint as to what is the stance being taken by the new age players. Beyond that, has it faded out? I think too early to comment. They are still there. They are still prominent players in the market. We'll wait and watch what happens. Got it, sir. Thanks a ton. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citi. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening. A few questions from my side. First is on the SIP piece. If I see your data, it seems that, on a sequential basis, the SIP flows have been a little weak. Whereas for the overall market, they were broadly stable. If you can, you know, give some color on that. This was first question. My second is if you can quantify the tech spends and the marketing spends on the P&L during the quarter. Third, on the insurance business, if you can give some color on, you know, what are the type of products that you are trying to what are the product mix during the quarter and how it is shaping up? Yeah. Hi. So on the SIP, as we mentioned, the market share is 3.5%. There has been a bit of a softness now, but the total number of SIPs, they continue to hold. It's about 1 million, in fact, slightly inched up from last quarter. In terms of flows, also it has been stable. There, I think a lot of initiatives like our money app, digital client engagement with customers, simplified journey. These are some of the things which are helping in that particular business in terms of gaining share. Here also, if you look at our, I mean, our SIP AUM, there our growth has been slightly ahead of industry. However, flows were slightly soft on SIP. I think your second question was pertaining to the tech spends. The tech spends and marketing spend, as we said earlier also that, sequentially, we have tried to put a more measured focus on the areas that we spend in. Marketing spends actually registered a slight decline. They have been in the range of about INR 20-27 crores in the last quarter. That has come down to slightly less than INR 20 crores for this quarter. That's on marketing spend. On the tech spend, we have been consistent. The range has been about INR 20 crores or INR 20-22 crores. We are holding up that trend in terms of OpEx for the current quarter as well. Sure. On the third part, on the insurance product that you're trying to push during the fourth Insurance. Insurance primarily, currently the portfolio is life insurance dominant. If you look at it, our revenue was about INR 12.5 crores, which was up almost 40% on a YOY basis from INR 7.5 crores to INR 12.5 crores. We are also building a line of general insurance products with our partnership through Coverfox. There we have designed, it's in the process of getting fully launched, and we have integrated with our partners. We now have about four partners through which we provide general insurance products. We have integrated two-wheeler, four-wheeler, health insurance. Travel. These are the products in general insurance, and we expect to start gaining traction in that soon. Right now, it is still dominant by life insurance products. Sure. Thank you. All of us. Also, just to clarify on the last question, the marketing spend, I gave a slightly wide range of INR 20-27 crores. It is more towards the upper end last quarter. About 29 crores was the spend for Q4 for marketing, which has now come down to less than INR 20 crores. Yep. Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Firstly, just wanted to understand whether we've been reducing brokerage rates for our, Prime as well as non-Prime customers. Yeah. On the rate per se, nothing specific now. We had launched a lifetime prepaid plan, lifetime Prime and prepaid plans in March. Those plans basically offered on a subscription fee, a lifetime benefit of the same reduced rates that we were earlier also offering. That was a change that we made. On Neo also the pricing remains the same. On the non-Neo part also, the rate and the pricing is currently the same. We have not made any changes. Harvinder, how do I reconcile your ADTO trends and your revenue trends? You know, like ADTO cash is down 15, 17- Primarily mix, Piran, because what has happened in the current quarter is that the delivery ADTO, so the waterfall in broking yield is that delivery is at the highest level, followed by intraday, followed by F&O. That's the waterfall. Right now delivery has been weaker in the current quarter and therefore intraday has gone up. It's primarily mix. On a unit rate, it is, there is no other pricing intervention that we have done. Can you give some numerical color? Like retail ADTO is down 17% QOQ. Would delivery ADTO be down like 35-40%? Or at least maybe 30-35%? Yeah. It's possible. I can maybe separately kind of come back to you with the number, but it is quite possible that within this, the delivery mix would be lower. Understood. Okay. That answers it. Thirdly, just once again, not to harp on this other fee of INR 32 crores. I just want to understand, have you started charging on some things that you were not charging until Q4? If not, I don't really understand what explains doubling this. Is the Chola thing also included here? The Chola initiative is a very recent one that I think over the next couple of quarters we will start building up. On this, as I said, we do keep looking at various charges. It'll be difficult to kind of give a full breakup of what charges and what aspect of charges being competitive. Yes, there are charges that we keep evaluating and configuring. We keep benchmarking also with competition, so which kind of makes the bouquet of these charges. They are dependent on various, a variety of parameters. For example, it could be the number of sell trades or Demat fee or payments as I was elaborating earlier. Correct. No, I'm just trying to think that how do we as analysts really model it? I know it's not a significant number, but that's fine. I'll take it separately. Just lastly, are non-employee OpEx going down? How much of that is actually due to just lower customer acquisition volumes and therefore lower referral fees and all of that versus your curtailing expenses on your own? The two examples that I gave on both marketing is one example where we have done a bit of a curtailment. The variable cost has also gone down. That is evidenced in our operating expense line. That is a line which gives you the variable expense reduction on three counts. One is investment banking. Second is brokerage-related pass-through. Whatever is the revenue share arrangement we have with various partners, that has come down. Third is what you mentioned, which is the client acquisition going down. These are the three elements which are variable in nature, which have reduced expenses. The fixed elements are some bit of marketing expenses we have curtailed and some of the other discretionary spends we have tried to put some curbs on. Sorry, one numbers question. How many of your, like, what percentage of Prime customers attrite every year? Prime. See, Prime as a proposition is, has been a retention tool. If you look at our chart, the inventory of Prime customers has been going up. It stands at about, 1 million, slightly above 1 million customers, as of now. It's not a very material number. Not giving out the exact number, Piran, but it's not a very material number. Also we do see, you know, at times that customers attrite, and that's where, you know, we have made this proposition even more attractive by making it lifetime. Yeah. Additionally, you know, two more cards were also introduced to attract higher-value customers. Overall, I mean, we contain things in Prime. Also, Prime has now been extended to NRIs. There also, you know, we have seen some traction. Very initial days, but I think things are picking up now. With the lifetime variant, Piran, actually the attrition concept for Prime is actually not relevant. Not very relevant. Got it. Okay, fine. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sahaj Agrawal from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, good evening, everyone, and thanks for this opportunity. So, sir, firstly, I mean, could you know, throw some color on the activation rate of the customers which were acquired in, like, 4Q FY 2021? What's the status on those customers? What percentage of those customers are still trading, are still active with us? Yeah. Yeah. Sahaj, there are varied natures. For example, the cohort that we have acquired digitally has one kind of a behavior. Within that also we have seen and elaborated in a few earnings calls earlier as well, that there are a few channels which have a much lower continuity rate, where the second transaction, third transaction, et cetera, is lower. We have also seen a lower level of activity in the current quarter, not necessarily at our platform only, but in general in the market. That also puts a bit of pressure on the activation rate. The third aspect is in the industry also, as Vijay mentioned, there's a number of newcomers. What happens is it's a waterfall, that there'll be new customers who will keep coming. They are active and some of the old customers keep getting dropped off. That rate has come down. Some of the channels, yes, we have seen a decline, a sharp decline in activity rate in their first 12-month period. That is the reason why we have stated earlier that we are looking for more measured channel mix and longevity of customers, sustainable customer profile. That is what we are looking at. We can expect a reduction in active client or activity level for some of these customer cohorts. Right. I mean, you know, so if you could just talk about the customers you acquired after the lockdown started, I mean, around April 2020, May 2020. I mean, are those customers still active? Yeah, just to get a sense, you know, if the current customers which we are acquiring are cross-subsidizing the customers, the deactivation of those customers which are getting deactivated. Yeah, yeah. As I clarified, those customers are also active from a particular set of channels, and some of the customers may have dropped off. It's a mix. It's not a month-wise behavior that April customers have all stopped or May customers have all stopped. There is a particular persona or a profile of a customer and there's a channel profile. Some of the channels have resulted in weaker continuity after 12 months, as compared to some of the other channels. It's not a particular month where we can say that everyone is behaving very homogeneously. Right. If you could just share your retail cash market share, retail ADTO cash and derivative market share and how it has moved sequentially. We have disclosed that in our presentation and disclosure file. It's 9.7% for retail cash market share, and it's about 3.5% for retail derivative market share. Cash market share sequentially was 10%-9.7%, and derivative market share sequentially was 3.3%-3.5%. Right. Just to check, what's the status on the new app which we are trying to come up with, the super app of sorts? You're referring to the new app. You're talking about the new sort of brand that we spoke about, or are you talking about something else? Yeah, yeah. During our last analyst meet, the analyst day which we hosted, we spoke about this app coming up. Yeah, just status on that. Yeah. It's getting made. It's coming up quite well, I should say. We hope to do the launch sometime during the course of this year. Any timelines? I mean, you know, broadly. Yeah. We do have timelines, but these are internal timelines. Just broadly Sahaj. Got it. Just to get a sense of the staff costs for the full year, I mean, the staff cost was up on a sequential basis despite a decline in our top line. I mean, how should we build it for the full year? It's flattish, Sahaj. If you look at it's about 2%. That's the kind of growth and you have to factor in the fact that Q1 you will have the impact of increments, et cetera, also coming in. It has been flattish over here. From 170, 172 to 175. That has been the movement. Thank you very much. Sahaj, you are requested to come back in the question queue. A request to all the participants. Please restrict to two questions per participant. If time permit, please come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Nidhesh from Investec. Please go ahead. Thanks for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations for a decent set of numbers in a difficult environment. One question, we have started this journey of open architecture almost two years back. How much of our retail revenue is coming outside of ICICI Bank customers? Nidhesh, on stock, the ICICI Bank customer is still the lion's share because they are the more vintage customers and the profile is also better. It's relatively much lower from the new open architecture set which started and gained traction about 14 months back, if you look, really look at it. There is some kind of a bedding-in time. It will not be. On an overall basis, the contribution will not be very high. The build-up and the scale is what we are. Yeah, it's growing. Yeah, it is growing. It's growing well. Sure. Sure. Secondly, we used to disclose that more than 50% of our revenue is coming from customers acquired more than 5 years back. Is it still holds true for this quarter or? Yeah. 60%, Nidhesh. 60%. Yeah. of our revenue coming from customers which are more than five years old. That's holding. Although we are starting to get a decent traction in the recently acquired customers also, but that metric is holding. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. That's it from me. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital Advisors. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, earlier we in the past guided that we have a target to get our cost-to-income ratio closer to 45. I understand it's a difficult environment. Whether that target will be largely missed in the current year because of the weakness in the market? Or though you have highlighted there are some levers that you have to concentrate it to cost, but do we see that cost-to-income ratio to be upwards of 50 the way we have reported in the current quarter? On similar lines, how do we read the employee cost, which is around 22%? In the past you used to guide it to be around 22%, but last year it cost less than 20%. How do we see employee cost as a percentage of the total revenue to move going ahead? Yeah. Sanketh, two things. One, our guidance was about 40% by FY 2025. That is what our aspiration was. Yeah. We had guided earlier and continuously continue to guide that in interim, we do expect costs to go up. Last quarter, for example, the cost-to-income ratio was 49%, and we had guided that we do expect this to go up in the intervening period from these levels. Currently, if you look at it, the absolute costs have actually come down. If you exclude the finance cost, the costs have actually come down by about 5%. But obviously, it's more of a function of revenue which is playing out right now in the cost-to-income ratio that we have seen. Our guidance continue to be the same that in the intermediate term, which is two to three years, we do we are focusing on getting the cost-to-income ratio to a lower level. It will be a function of revenue and our cost initiatives. That continues to be the guidance. Yeah. I'll just add one comment here, Sanketh, that we know we'll be judicious in spend, but I don't want to compromise on growth opportunities. We are in the investment mode, and we will judiciously and, you know, in an agile way, spend where we need to spend. What is good to have and we'll probably defer it. Got it. On employee cost, if you want to compare, you want to link it to the top line. Yeah. I'm coming to that. On the same basis, when we had an employee cost to income ratio of 20%, we have very clearly guided that this is not the long-term employee cost trend. We should definitely see an increase on this trend. 20% was actually one quarter, and we had explained also that overall, I mean, we should see an expansion over here. We are investing in very identified focus areas in the areas of technology, analytics, marketing. Some of these areas we have identified and we are investing, building up talent. On an absolute basis, as I was just re-responding to one of the earlier questions, the employee cost has gone up by 2% in a quarter, which is after increments, et cetera. Increments this year has been better than the past trends in the industry as well. Despite that, we have seen a 2% growth in absolute amount. That, I think, should give you some sense. Got it. The second, probably another question which I had is that open architecture probably added the customers, but probably not to the revenue. Just wanted to understand these open architecture customers somewhere have started contributing to the float part, float investment part, which was clearly missing when we were largely ICICI Bank customer company. Any trajectory you are seeing which is meaningful which we really can highlight. How do you see this if a regulator really comes with ASBA kind of a thing for the secondary market too? Yeah. The digital customers, every month, what we have seen is their contribution to the revenue and absolute revenue is rising. They are becoming meaningful. As I was just responding in the early part of the call, if you trace it back from where we started, we started in April 2020 this journey on a small level. From April 2020 to today, June 2022, there are about 25 cohorts of customers, monthly cohorts of customers that we have acquired. Of these cohorts, the first eight, nine cohorts have already broken even in terms of their payback period and whatever we are getting is a straight follow-through in the bottom line. This stock is becoming greater. Every month, it is not still substantial compared to the current existing vintage customers, but it is growing. Also from the revenue of a current month, I mean, that's almost equal to the cost of acquisition of that particular month. The entire cohort is able to self-fund in a manner of speaking right now. From that perspective, yes, it has started to contribute. Number two, these customers are a part of what is contributing to overall float. We have, let's say, about INR 1,000 crore plus of float that we have now gained. These customers are also contributing to that. Plus it's also contributing to roughly about INR 1,300 crore of float currently. These customers are also contributing to various charges, et cetera. Yeah. Small charges that we are delivering. Idea over here is completely digital engagement, multiple charges, smaller products and engagement. That is the plan over here, and that is what we are working on. There are various properties that we have launched, various experiences. Recently we have launched something which we call iLearn. It's an app focused on learning in a completely new engaging format with, you know, snippets of videos, short articles, engaging format and so on, so forth. All these things, and there's a team which keeps on looking at various ways to engage these customers. We have also recently invested in marketing tech stack and social networking investor networking platform. We are building some of those capabilities to try and engage these customers digitally, to have longevity as well as high lifetime value. I mean, it is building up is the short point. Okay. Perfect. Thanks, Harvinder. That's it from my side. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Probal Sen from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thanks Harvinder for follow-up. Just to, you know, on that, on the part where, you know, we take the subscription revenues. Firstly, how do we account for that from the lifetime fee that you get? How do you account for that? What is the kind of float that you would be earning on that? Also, basically, what's the size of that pool? Yeah. Probal, once we have converted them into a lifetime variant, there the accounting is instantaneous. There are two variants which are in subscription mode: the 299 variant and the INR 900 variant. These two are still in subscription mode, which are annual fee. The annual fee get amortized over four quarters, one year. The instantaneous lifetime fee is accounted in the quarter which we get the fee. That's the difference between lifetime and the subscription. Your second question was pertaining to what is the total quantum, right? Yes. We have about 1 million Prime customers. Roughly 90% of them would be on the lower plan. That is the Prime fee contribution. In a quarter, if you look at it, and we have disclosed that, Prime fee revenue separately. Okay. All right. Got that. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhuvnesh Garg from Investec Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I have a couple of questions regarding your private wealth segment. You have given the AUM of private wealth. In that regard, can you also give the number of customers that how many customers you have in private wealth and then how that customer base has grown over the last few quarters? That's first. Second thing is about acquisition, that how are you acquiring these customers? Is there any separate vertical to acquire these customers apart from the normal way you are acquiring mass affluent customers? Third thing is the customer mix, that how many of these customers are from the ICICI Bank channel and then how many of these customers are at ICICI? Fourth one is on your team within the private wealth, that how many RMs are there and how the team is structured to cater to these customers. Finally, your vision on this private wealth that where firstly, what is your target customer segment and where do you see your private wealth AUM going and its contribution in overall revenue? Yeah. Those are my couple of questions. You asked a bunch of questions. Let me go one by one. Your first question is that how many customers are there in private wealth, right? I think. Did I get it right? Right. First of all, I'll take a minute to describe what is private wealth definition by us. Any customer who really has got INR 1 crore of AUM with us is what we call as a private customer. If you look at the total number of such customers today, we would have crossed 70,000 customers meeting this cut. During the quarter, we added about 1,600 customers to this cohort. The total aggregated AUM from all these customers, 70,000 customers, would be slightly lower than INR 2.8 lakh crore as on June 30th. That's the total AUM. If I have to describe what is the profile of this customer and little bit about their persona, I think it is fair to say that most of our customers that we have acquired are not typically the born rich customers, but they are grown rich customers. These are customers who started off their careers as either a self-employed person many years back, and he has scaled his business up and he's become a rich person today. Or alternatively, a professional who has risen the ranks in a corporate setup and today is belonging to a senior management position and he's a wealthy person in his own right. Therefore, if I were to translate this into a, you know, typical AUM that this person has got, he would be typically between, let's say INR 2-3 crore at the lower end of the spectrum, at his own AUM level, and go up to INR 30-35 crore of AUM at the higher end. This whole segment is a sweet spot. This segment, we believe, is the fastest-growing wealth segment in the country. Number two, it is a segment which is, I would say very fertile. They are more DIY style, rather than, you know, the, you know, segment which is very pampered style, the born rich guys. Therefore, they relate very well with the brand. They have come to us because they have partnered with us in the past and they have grown over the period of time. Our strategy has been and our customer segment has been brand-led rather than RM-led, and I think that's a very unique, you know, differentiation of our wealth franchise. We have very strong ambitions in this segment. When we started focusing on this segment about maybe three years back, it was roughly one-third the size of this. In three and a half, four years, we've tripled the size. We have brought sharp focus. We have improved revenues, similarly, and by the similar sort of proportions. Clearly, we have emerged as today the largest, I would say, non-bank private wealth company in the country. We have overtaken everyone else in the process. We will continue to put our pedal on this and broaden our presence and deepen our presence. Today, these are serviced by a team of about roughly 300 relationship managers. They are also in turn supported by bunch of product experts in this space. So if you add all these together, it would be in the ballpark of about 350, 375 kind of people servicing this entire segment. What else did I miss? I think you are- You also asked, I think, about the rate of acquisition of customers. I mentioned about roughly 1,500-1,600 customers in a quarter. Yeah. That's broadly the run rate. Right. Anything else? Just outlook. I mean, what are your targets in next, say, two, three years? Where do you want to see the AUM growing or its contribution in overall revenue? I think we feel that rather than chasing a target, we will chase the opportunity. It's a massive under-penetrated opportunity, growing opportunity. We just want to maximize it. I think we are not looking at anything, you know. We want to do the right things, because, see, it is very, you know, you go chase a number, you will land up with a bunch of customers who will be very upset with you. We don't want to do all of that. We want to grow this segment in a right way because for us it is about longevity of customers. That is how this DNA of this company has been, because many of our customers have spent 15, 20 years of their life. We find that the lifetime value of these customers is enormous. For us, it is about getting the right customer and serving him well and growing with him. We will do that in a very, very, I would say, focused and active manner. Tripled in less than four years is what we have achieved following this approach. Our approach will be to intensify it. Let us see where we go. Sure, sir. Just one last thing on this. If you can just give the breakup into non-ICICI customers in private wealth with ICICI customers. I think it would be fair to say 100% of the 70,000 would be belonging to the ICICI fraternity. Even if there is any, we don't look at it like this, but our sense is that it will be close to 100% or Anupam, our wealth head, wants to just chip in, so maybe he will add a couple of comments around that. You know, from a client perspective, again, as Vijay just mentioned, that we have a fairly robust and a specialized team. We have in excess of 300 private bankers. We go out in the market and do open market sourcing as well, and that we've been doing, you know, over the years. Having said that, as Vijay mentioned, that we also have a lot of clients who, you know, have been part of the ecosystem for a long period of time, where we've deeper mined and really grown. It's really a combination between, you know, a large part from the existing base, as well as trying to look at it from an opportunity and trying to onboard clients from the open market sourcing. Yeah, I hope that answered. The line for the participant dropped. As there are no further questions, I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Chandok, MD and CEO, for closing comments. Mr. Chandok- Yeah. You may proceed. Thanks a lot. Thank you everyone for a patient hearing. Thanks for the support you've been giving us. We will connect with you in due course. If there are any follow-up questions, unanswered questions, please feel free to reach out. We are all there to respond. Once again, thanks a lot and good night. Thank you very much. On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.